Guild Wars 2

If only you got achievement points fo the armor….

How about you can earn rewards in EOTM only while you are queueing for WvW. once you get into a WvW map you can’t earn pips in EOTM for the rest of the day.

Lord Velar.1509:

Welp I’ve come to the conclusion that pvp as a whole needs to be reworked completely.

I played a couple matches today and I noticed that there is no skill in GW2s pvp.

The team that wins is the team that spams the most cc and have the burst classes.

For 3 mathes in a row that’s how we lost, getting stunned, and immobilized till we were dead and since most if not all classes can throw out huge amounts of damage, it didn’t take them long to kill us

For instance at point B I had full health, full life force, all of my conditions were out and my abilities were on cool down, the second I decided to turn on reaper shroud and jump in the middle of the fight I got knocked back, interrupted, snared, and immobilized and before I knew it not only was my shroud gone, but my health was too.

Rangers were sitting back draining people from afar which yet again is unbalanced because no ranged class should have that advantage over any other ranged class in a game where popping big numbers against other players is a thing. Even hunters in WoW are subject to getting their faces smashed in if theyre not careful and almost every class can counter them

I forgot what its called but the ability that the “leaf” race gets, the snare, yet that needs a big kitten rework. I got snared trying to contest B, I tried to break it with (its not Rise but the other one) a shout and nothing happened, I was still snared and got burst down in the blink of an eye

I can continue, but I am truly baffled at how people can defend this

The game is fun asf (otherwise I wouldn’t still be playing it obviously), but it’s hard to sit here and pretend that it doesn’t have its issues

This aspect alone is making me debate on if I’m even going to give their next installment a try.

PvP has so much potential to be great, yet it feels like Anet doesn’t even care

The mechanic on entangle is strong and is very different from other cc. There are some root that you need to attack otherwise it keeps pulsing immobilize. A stun break won’t clear immobilize unless it also clears generic conditions. the trait that processes it requires a fear, float, knockback, taunt.

I played it to get the title for it and started to enjoy it. Having a game mode besides conquest is a good thing. That was what I liked the most about halls in GW1. You had to win at several different game modes with the same build to do well at it.

Crinn.7864:

Faux Play.6104:

Mesmer is a good matchup for necros. Their clones help necro get shroud up faster, and necro AOE is strong enough to take out the clones.

That’s not how it works.

1) Clones don’t give life force when they die
2) Life Force generating skills do not scale with the number of a targets struck. It doesn’t matter if you hit 1 or 5 targets with a staff mark, that mark still only gives 3% Life Force.

Also necros only have a lot of AoE while in shroud, outside of shroud necros have little cleave capabilities.

Marks aren’t the only skill that generates life force. When I’m necro I’ll take a 1v1 on a point and be successful vs a mesmer.

Cynz.9437:

Faux Play.6104:

Necro can hold points and kill quite a few classes 1v1. Mesmer, warrior, guard are all ones you should be able to kill.

I don’t think necro can kill mes given same skill level. Mes has plenty of ways to lock down necro and deny them shroud as well .
Guards and war maybe, depending on their builds. Necro does counter engi, ele and revs to extend. Once again depending on build they play.

Mesmer is a good matchup for necros. Their clones help necro get shroud up faster, and necro AOE is strong enough to take out the clones. A decent engineer with the elixir elite has a lot more control options that are harder to deal with than a mesmer. Engineer moa is way harder to see coming, and their knockback cloud can be gg if necro has the wrong skills on cool down.

Necro can hold points and kill quite a few classes 1v1. Mesmer, warrior, guard are all ones you should be able to kill.

Tried to queue ranked for ~8 mins no match. Looked at patch notes and noticed WvW has a legendary backpack. RIP?

Crinn.7864:

thijsken.5031:

“harder to reach Platinum and Legendary. As such, we’ve revised the tiers for each rank”

Pretty sure that’s the entire purpose of the tiers? That legendary is really hard to reach?

It was harder than intended in season 6. Basically the volatility change in at the end of season 5 removed mmr inflation resulted in what we had in s6 where only two people got legendary.

When a entire division is more exclusive than the top ten you’ve got a issue.

Did NA really deserve 1 legendary? xD

Suggest replacing the8th note on the octave with a function that shifts all the other notes up half a step. You wouldn’t lose any notes because the 8th note of an octave is half a step above the 7th, and you would gain all the notes you are missing. BTW if there is a better place for this please move it.

May not have had an ele, but you had a Ventari rev that was a pretty good baby sitter. Regardless good to see a necro that isn’t whining about being helpless in sPvP.

I think necro is fine. You have to be patient and play within the class limitations. Their big plus is their skills become more effective the more targets there are in the area. Axe, scepter, great sword, staff, and war horn are all good weapon sets for sPvP. They have quite a few utility skills that are good as well. Just accept you aren’t going to have the mobility of a thief. What you do have for kiting is chill, cripple, and weakness which are better for holding points. Also you have shroud which acts as a second life bar that you can charge by attacking. The only thing I don’t like is enter and exit shroud are the same button. Some times it isn’t responsive so you want to hit the button again, and other times it seems like you only hit the button once, but you enter and exit shroud instantly.

anduriell.6280:

Immob was never affected by stability. You could run all the stability you wanted still would be immobilized.

The trait is being nerf already to 20 sec cd for 5 seconds immob, L2P issue is what I’m reading now here. With all the nerfs to CC and sustain to a CC and sustain spec is being asking here the damage in Druid should be busted up by a ton.

In order for it to process you need to be knocked down, feared, floated or dazed. That is exactly what stability is for. 1v1 it is annoying. In a group fight where the druid can proc it from longbow distance it is super strong.

Yannir.4132:

Faux Play.6104:

With the nerf to stability, this trait seems very strong now. I’m OK with the elite as it is. It has a long cool down and an obvious tell. However, a trait that procs an elite skill every 20 seconds seems pretty strong.

It’s single target so it’s essentially 1/5 of an Elite skill. And it’s not even exactly unblockable like the Elite. I think it’s fine. It’s annoying but it’s still fine.

With barrage it can hit more than one person. It can be done at full longbow range vs. area around the player. It only processes when it hits vs. the elite which can be dodged. It has advantages over the elite. It is the roots on the trait that make it too strong imo. They got rid of pulsing stability, but the pulsing immobilize roots you need to kill before you can get out of them is still there.

Crinn.7864:

Faux Play.6104:

You can’t be exceptional at a class unless you understand how to play all the other classes. There is only so much you can pick up from dueling another class. The off season is long enough to pick up a new class.

And the best way to understand other classes is to creep on the top level players of that class, and to read and follow buildcrafting for that class, and to monitor discussions among members of that class.

In my entire time in Gw2 I’ve played 7 matches on Mesmer. However I still know every trait Mesmer has, I know how all of their weapon and utility skills work, I know how all of their main builds both meta and sub-meta function. I know about all the phase retreat terrain exploits, and I know all relevant applications of portal.

Moreover playing the class yourself just causes you to view that class through your own capabilities, not through the optimal capabilities of the class.

Exactly. We’re talking about winning 30 games on two other classes to get your achievements for the leg backpack, not winning games at ESL level.

Still requires throwing a season.
Also some of us have mmrs high enough to be playing against ESL players.

I find it hard to believe anyone that is good enough to be vsing the top players every match:
1) Doesn’t already have the requirements met.
2) isn’t good enough to win matches on more than one class.
3) couldn’t climb back up to the top on their main IF they tanked their rating.

With the nerf to stability, this trait seems very strong now. I’m OK with the elite as it is. It has a long cool down and an obvious tell. However, a trait that procs an elite skill every 20 seconds seems pretty strong.

Crinn.7864:

Zietlogik.6208:

I doubt they care about their rating in the first place if they can’t play, or can’t learn to play more than 1 class…

Being mediocre at several classes is worse than being exceptional at one. There is a reason that nearly all of the ESL players played 1 maybe 2 classes.

You can’t be exceptional at a class unless you understand how to play all the other classes. There is only so much you can pick up from dueling another class. The off season is long enough to pick up a new class.

Animism.9803:

Faux Play.6104:

Kuya.6495:

Why would nos and toker want dh nerfed?

edit: again

What do people main that placed at the top of the NA leader board the past two seasons?

The past two seasons in both NA and EU, there was a healthy spread of all the classes taking the top 10 spots, except maybe ele, necro, and rev, which are the classes that excel in team fights.

Solo/duo queue system places emphasis on 1vX sustain to carry a game, so DH/warrior/druid were the most popular, in that order. Thieves and mesmers could carry the game better, but are harder to play.

With the nerfs and change in the PvP system, if the leaderboards and queue system remains the same, I expect to see more engineers taking the top spots.

Both seasons God of PvP went to a DH. In the random queue game mode DH is strong at all levels.

Kuya.6495:

Why would nos and toker want dh nerfed?

edit: again

What do people main that placed at the top of the NA leader board the past two seasons?

It only works if people are in your party—you queued with them. For people that are on your team but not in your party, you can’t see their bars unless you mouse over them or use the side bar.

Just take away passives. There are too many options that allow someone to defend themselves without pressing any buttons. the biggest offenders are ones that make someone invulnerable at x% health. make the trait reduce the cool down on said invulnerable skill instead so they at least have to press a button.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Trigr.6481:

Crinn.7864:

The only way to make 1v1 work is to ban thieves or at least limit their trait and weapon choices. Otherwise a thief could infinitely drag out (and invariably win) any match not against other thieves.

Or you could…. I don’t know, use your brain and design it with stealth in mind, and not around it.

^ SOOOOOOOO much this. People forget to adapt to things and dont want to change, thus having them complain just like this. People really should learn to change/adapt their builds based on what they are up against or what they may be up against. Thats how to spot the difference between a player and a good player.

It isn’t really stealth. It is more that someone could put together a build that could kite the whole match.

If they did it, the arena would have to be small enough that a character couldn’t fully disengage. otherwise any class with good mobility would be awful to fight.

Can you imagine the match manipulation that could go on in this mode?

Jourdelune.7456:

….over 5000 char

1&3) You are leaving out the part where you can lose points for winning. One can also make the argument that in a close loss any one player could have made a difference but didn’t. In a blowout, you can’t say which player or players were responsible.

2) The wiki has a good breakdown of the system. It is based on glicko2. http://www.glicko.net/glicko/glicko2.pdf
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm
TLDR: you get same points for a loss as a win if the team you are playing is at the same rating. If you are rated higher than the team, a loss will cost you more points than you get for a win.

4) Would increase queue times, and people would have to be able to fall through tiers.

5) I think having divisions you can’t break through until you play a whole season is a good idea. For example, at the end of the season, the top 25% in bronze qualify for silver/gold, the bottom 25% in silver/gold get demoted to bronze. Same for the gap between silver/gold and plat/legend. But wow 1k matches? A good player will be able to get to gold level in well under that. Making them play against low tier people for that long is more likely to cause them to get bad habits.

Ensign.2189:

Faux Play.6104:

The calculation should be against your rating not the teams. However, there shouldn’t be huge variations in the rating of team members. The issue is with the matchmaking not glicko. Right now we are sacrificing short queue time for poor quality matches.

The matchmaker cannot possibly provide high quality matches with garbage ratings being fed into it. Ratings, and rating differences are supposed to represent likelihoods of outcomes, and when the matchmaker is paired with a consistent rating system the ratings will converge to make the predictor true.

But that doesn’t happen because the matchmaker and the rating systems are inconsistent.

For instance, the matchmaker has baked into it some logic that says that if you put high platinum player into a mid gold game (that is, a player with a +200 rating difference), that it would expect the platinum player’s team to win 57% of the time. That’s a bit lopsided, but not so unacceptable that it can’t fire the match off. Unfortunately, that assumption isn’t true – because the player rating update is inconsistent, the platinum player’s team actually has a 76% chance of winning the match.

What is the matchmaker supposed to do when it can’t accurately evaluate the quality of a match?

The matchmaker can only create fair matchups if it can accurately predict the outcomes. If the ratings being given to it don’t mean what it thinks it does, and update in a way inconsistent with those assumptions, it’s going to keep spitting out crappy matches with no correction mechanism.

Faux Play.6104:

Also, we really aren’t using glicko it is more ELO. This season they disabled the key difference between the two systems which is increasing rating deviation due to inactivity.

They aren’t using either system – again, Elo is a consistent system, while A.Net’s special snowflake rating system is not.

A.Net’s special system does not find, or try to find, fair match-ups for its top players – it instead finds weak opponents to feed to those players in blowout after blowout. That is probably not the design intent of their rating system, but it’s what theirs does.

You are confusing the match maker with the rating system. They are different.

• The rating system does its work after the match is over. It assigns a rating and a deviation to the players. At the end of a match, it adjusts the rating and deviation based on whether the team won or lost. Anet didn’t make up their own system. It is based on glicko 2 and it is consistent.
• The match maker does its work before the match starts. Based on a set of criteria, it assigns players to teams. Its goal is to put players of similar skill levels on a team, and assign them opponents. However, it has to balance team consistency with queue times.

No match making system can provide good quality matches and short queue times when populations are low.

Currently the queue of rosters considered for a match can have as big of a gap of 1200 rating. In addition, it looks at the “effective” rating, and ignores the average rating. So when 4 top tier players are matched with a low gold/silver, their team will have a high rating deviation, and could end up matched with a team of all mid tier gold. (assuming N/A). The following is from the wiki relating to the ranked matchmaker:

   <Rating start="3m" end="10m" max="1200" min="25">

Filter/Rating/@padding
Padding is added every second you wait in the queue after Filter/Rating/@start has passed. This is an outlier fail-safe to ensure everyone gets a match.

   <Rank distance="0">
   <Rating distance="-10">

Scoring/Rank/@distance
Score added or removed based on the distance between the potential roster’s average rank and the average rank of all selected rosters, including both teams.

Scoring/Rating/@distance
Score added or removed based on the distance between the potential roster’s average effective rating (i.e. rating – deviation) and the average effective rating of all selected rosters, including both teams.

They had that. It was the Pro league. All the best players got on the same team, the league became non competitive because of it, and the game mode died.

Ensign.2189:

Cynz.9437:

This is not anecdotical evidence. You should try to duoq with someone who is 100 or so ranks below you. Ask them how many ranks they gain/loss for every match with you. I promise you, it will be something like: you gain 10, they gain 20, you lose 20, they lose 15. The system currently does base rank gains/loss on personal MMR vs avg MMR of the enemy team. It does not take into account your teammates at all and given wonky MM that creates matches like plat/gold/gold/gold/gold vs legend/legend/plat/plat/plat on constant basis it becomes really punishing for no good reason.

Yep, then the rating and matchmaking system is simply wrong. Broken systems produce garbage, which it uses as future inputs in a long cycle of garbage.

A.Net should probably fix that before looking at anything more detailed. Hard to talk about improvements to Glicko when you don’t have Glicko working yet.

The calculation should be against your rating not the teams. However, there shouldn’t be huge variations in the rating of team members. The issue is with the matchmaking not glicko. Right now we are sacrificing short queue time for poor quality matches.

Also, we really aren’t using glicko it is more ELO. This season they disabled the key difference between the two systems which is increasing rating deviation due to inactivity.

Even teams break glicko if there is a big skill gap. They need to put similar rated players on the same team. They either need longer queues, more people, or reduce the team size.

Shaogin.2679:

Anet can not accurately account for individual performance in a team game. There are just too many factors to consider. However, gains/losses should be calculated based on your team’s average rating vs enemy team average rating. This is such a simple concept it is astounding anet hasn’t done this yet. It needs to happen.

They would have to eliminate duo queue then. Otherwise people would just smurf their team.

Pick your poison. You can place too low and end up climbing most of the season, place just right and be stuck in a 50% win situation, or place too high and end up bleeding rating. No matter what people will find something to complain about. Fix the huge MMR gap on teams first.

Shaogin.2679:

Faux Play.6104:

Nova.3817:

Faux Play.6104:

Team arenas in guild wars 1 is a great example of how popular sPvP would become if you were forced to 5man queue. The only reason it had people in it was because if you won 10 in a row in randoms you would get put there. 80% of the population didn’t want it in the poll. If that is implemented the top 250 in NA will be silver/bronze.

Most people want to play, not waste a bunch of time getting a team together.

thats super inaccurate…. if you played gw1 then you’d know the reason Random arena was way more popular is because the skill curve for team play was much higher… so people would stick to RA for a easier go.. it has nothing to do with the fact people didnt want to play together thus RA syncing was born…

The reason people want mixed queue now is the same as syncing. They want an easy way to win. They want to be able to queue as a team vs disorganized pugs. I guarantee you if ranked was team queue only, the population would die. As for skill cap, it takes a lot more skill to win as a random team than as a premade. I had plenty of 20+ streaks starting in randoms. it is way more convenient to have teams auto generated then waste hours putting together teams. I can at least get some practice time in on a bad auto generated team vs. Spamming the lobby for a team.

Without a good game mode for solo queueing and rating players, you won’t be able to support a forced team queue mode.

Except people don’t want mix queue, they want a pure team queue, so that old weak argument is pretty much invalid. As for team queue killing the population, that has already happened in case you haven’t noticed. As for more skill being required in solo queue than team queue, that is debatable. I suppose you could argue that despite facing more organized opponents, fighting with your own organized team is easier than fighting with random disorganized pugs, but that isn’t a point in favor of solo queue. Hell if you want to handicap yourself like that you could still do that in a team queue. Just make a lfg requesting teammates to afk on your team for you. Also not sure why you feel you’d need to waste hours finding a team. Just create a lfg, team up, and then queue as much as you want with your newfound group.

You won’t find 5 players to team with in a reasonable amount of time. If you want teams, then put back automated tournaments, but leave ranked as is.

Nova.3817:

Faux Play.6104:

Team arenas in guild wars 1 is a great example of how popular sPvP would become if you were forced to 5man queue. The only reason it had people in it was because if you won 10 in a row in randoms you would get put there. 80% of the population didn’t want it in the poll. If that is implemented the top 250 in NA will be silver/bronze.

Most people want to play, not waste a bunch of time getting a team together.

thats super inaccurate…. if you played gw1 then you’d know the reason Random arena was way more popular is because the skill curve for team play was much higher… so people would stick to RA for a easier go.. it has nothing to do with the fact people didnt want to play together thus RA syncing was born…

The reason people want mixed queue now is the same as syncing. They want an easy way to win. They want to be able to queue as a team vs disorganized pugs. I guarantee you if ranked was team queue only, the population would die. As for skill cap, it takes a lot more skill to win as a random team than as a premade. I had plenty of 20+ streaks starting in randoms. it is way more convenient to have teams auto generated then waste hours putting together teams. I can at least get some practice time in on a bad auto generated team vs. Spamming the lobby for a team.

Without a good game mode for solo queueing and rating players, you won’t be able to support a forced team queue mode.

Team arenas in guild wars 1 is a great example of how popular sPvP would become if you were forced to 5man queue. The only reason it had people in it was because if you won 10 in a row in randoms you would get put there. 80% of the population didn’t want it in the poll. If that is implemented the top 250 in NA will be silver/bronze.

Most people want to play, not waste a bunch of time getting a team together.

Ithilwen.1529:

In past seasons, many players, (including ESL,) strongly backed deliberately stacked, one sided, “competitive” matchmaking. I was repeatedly told that I was a bad player and a whiner for complaining about it.

Now, many of the same players are complaining about being matched outside there skill level in stacked “competitive” matches.

ANET will have to make a major effort to rebuild population. It needs to start with even matches. Class stacking and other forms of exploit and farming will have to be curtailed and the rewards will need a significant boost.

For glicko to work right, teams should be made of people with similar rating. The problem is there is a huge variation of rating on teams now. Twice I’ve been on a team with top five players and I was low gold high silver at the time. That is 500 to 600 rating points different. It worked out well for me. I got around 20 pts out of it. However, my low rating drug the team average way down. So if someone on the other team was a top 50, their rating would have been hammered. If I were replaced with another top 50 player, they wouldn’t have lost nearly the same amount of points.

Crinn.7864:

Glicko isn’t a progression scheme, it’s a skill rating system. Glicko isn’t here to make you feel good, it’s here to quantify your skill. Why should you be given the same amount of rating for winning against lesser players as you do for losing against lesser players?

Glicko works best when a team of players has the same rating. When the skill range for a team is large, the average rating becomes significantly different from the best and worst players. if matches are made this way, over time everyone will get driven to the same rating. The bad played get minimal point loss for a loss, and they get a significant boost for a win. The opposite happens with the good players. They get very little for a win and get punishes hard for a loss.

I know the matchmaking is pulling from a wide set of players because I’ve been on a team with top 5 players when I’ve had a rating between 1350-1450, in NA.

To me WvW should be guild based, not server based. GvG was pushed hard in GW1, but it was never as popular as hall of heroes or random arena. The PvP game mode that was DOA from the start was team arenas. Probably the most popular were the casual PvP modes in factions.

fussak.9463:

Not sure why. But there’s also mention regarding this on wiki (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Point_Blank_Shot). Check the notes section “If an enemy reflects the arrow, the player is knocked back instead.”

To clarify, if an engi pops it’s dome, the ranger gets knocked back. If the necro death charges, the necro gets knocked back.

bluri.2653:

SneakyTouchy.6043:

You’re not being punished, you’re being rated as someone who can’t carry silvers because that’s what you are.

Pretty much what he said, if you can’t get more than 60% wr you are where you belong in the system. Imagine if you climbed with 60% wr that would be crazy

The issue is they ran out of people to play that are better, so they will have to carry a win % much higher than 60%. Combine that with the fact that top tier players can get matches with silvers on their team, I can see why it is frustrating.

You should coordinate and queue at the same time as the top players. That way you should be getting roughly the same amount of points for a win and a loss. Also, anet should tighten up the range of possible players, unfortunately that will increase queue times. Twice I’ve been on a team with top 5 players and I’m bouncing between low gold and high silver.

Death’s charge says it destroys projectiles, but point black shot still knocks you back. Why?

Went to load the match and then the game kicked me back to the login screen. Relogged with the same character and I’m stuck in the lobby.

Should be do you want longer queue times, or a team of similarly skilled players.

Savvy.3258:

Forget the formulas, I tested it. The chieftain is a great test because he always opens with the same hit which apparently cannot crit.

Test done on Ranger:
Upping my toughness by 1200 points decreased damage by 33%. Upping my vitality by 1200 points increased health pool by 75%. Considering how bursty this game is, toughness desperately needs a redesign and to apply (perhaps especially) to condition damage.

Enough said.

What you are leaving out is, your heals are flat numbers. So your healing becomes more effective with more toughness.

saerni.2584:

Offense counts decaps. So it’s not as pointless as you seem to think. Revives can matter because getting off a revive especially on a support ally can really turn the tide.

The way I read the stat for offense it implied you were engaged in combat, same for defense. So you could have someone battling a bunker on a point the entire match, never get the cap but still have top stat for offense. Compare that with a thief that is getting lots of free decaps but not accumulating any offense ticks because they are moving on after they decap.

Could be a combination of alts working their way up and bad luck.

I noticed you didn’t carry the top stat for defense. Time spent defending a point you own is generally more important than time spent on ones you dont own. Probably the most important one. As mentioned earlier, percentages would be more useful.

Don’t you wish your team looked like mine at low tier gold:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/135286982

Plz Nerf mesmer. I got moa’d 6 times in a row in a 1v3 and lost.

The matchmaking criteria has been published in the wiki for quite some time. Same with dishonor. There is nothing on there about linking dishonor to your forum account.