Guild Wars 2

Yeah, best balance in years !!!

Teutos.8620:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Teutos.8620:

Feedback from my journey through Sapphire:

Facts: I started playing this weekend on EU. I played 16-2; only 1 close game (one of my teammates confessed that this was his first game on a druid).

Personal Opinion: Only 1 of those 18 games felt good, rest of my opponents felt like going through the random mobs in a dungeon (not going to use the common slang-term generally used for them).
There were definitely some guys on the opponent side, which I definitely should not face MMR-wise, but the other games might just come down to the ‘snowbally’ nature of the game design.
Definitely not an expirience I want in a pvp game.

This is probably a consequence of S2, high vs Low. The S2 MMR overrated you, so instead of starting where you belong ( based on your skills), the system exaggerated your rating.

Uhm what? I think you misunderstood me. I had a ~89% win rate, so no, they did not ‘exaggerate’ my rating. Due to my high rating, I have to farm through ‘trash’ opponents to reach the position where I belong. Until I reach legendary, that won’t be the case tho.

Due to my rating, I am again in the higher rated teams and fighting lower rated teams (they did not change that!).

You are actually right. I am assuming you started in saphire. Let’s not forget that 35 + divisions were thrown ed into saphire. So obviously, even though the system try it’s best to do 5 vs 5, some people will progress faster then others due mostly to their skills than their MMR rating.

However, you are right. The system is a bot biased on old account. I was watching chaith stream yesterday and he 500 -100 a team on his main account ( which was in diamond); and decided to switch to his alt ( which was in ruby) to get more competitive games. And those were def competitve.

If I were to guess, I d say the games on his main account were mostly 6 vs 4, since there is not enough people with chaith rating, and those on his alt were 5 vs 5 since that’srepresenting of the population. (Most people are in that MMR range)

Exedore.6320:

TLDR from OP: If you intentionally lose a bunch of matches in a row, it lowers your MMR. You can then in theory have an easier time getting win streaks to boost your total pip count . This yields higher pip counts than playing normally because win streaks give bonus pips.

---

Fortunately, this isn’t how matchmaking works. There is no forced 50% win rate metric.; you should simply settle to that ratio once you reach your proper placement (in a proper system at least). The matchmaker finds teammates within your pip range who are also near your MMR. Opponents need only to fall within your pip range. By tanking your MMR, you get worse allies, so unless you’re amazing at carrying teams, you won’t gain a huge advantage by tanking MMR.

The exception is if you have a team of 5 who tank their MMR. Because you’re all skilled players in reality, you should be able to get a win streak with less trouble. However, if you’re all that good from the start, there isn’t a huge need to tank MMR in the first place.

However, this doens’t mean the league system isn’t flawed in other ways.

Pretty much this

That’s how competitve ladder works.

Tyeme.6589:

“a low tier emerald is exactly the same as a high tier amber” “As far as the MM is concerned there is literally no difference.”

That is exactly why these matches are fairly predictable and unbalanced.

“People often forget how meaningless the divisions really are. Currently they are an indicator of the combined factors skill, luck and invested time.”

Luck shouldn’t be such a large factor. Divisions should have meaning. Someone should NEVER be forced teamed (by the system) with someone 2 divisions below them.. A low diamond solo que should NEVER be forced to team with a high sapphire. The solo que diamond didn’t not volunteer to try to carry.

As it should, and luck inst a big factor this season; it def was last season. The current system has being hampered by the venomous and largely incompetent S2 system.

LAst sentence, i am of the same opinion…

Ok, the devation in S2 was a lot broader than the one we have now. In S2, the system grouped player, based on their MMR and pip range, then pit them up against other team camp. As a result, you could have 10 10 10 10 10 vs 1 1 1 1 1 or 5 5 5 5 5 vs 5 5 5 5 5 or 1 1 1 1 1 vs 10 10 10 10 10. So 66% of the games were hotjoin like or decided by the maker whereas the remaining 33% were competitve.

In S3, the same grouping mechanism is use; however, you no longer faced X. So, your opponents MMR is taken into account. The system try to :

5 5 5 5 5 vs 5 5 5 5 5 or 4 4 4 4 4 vs 4 kitten 5 (using Evan example as a metric here)

So going back to S2 is a big NO NO, it’s 33% competitive and 66% crap.

Azukas.1426:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Cynz.9437:

Asrat.2645:

sanctuary.1068:

Yes its not fair, but it was a better measure of skill. The higher mmr players went to legendary fast, where they belonged, and it took longer for the lower mmr players to progress but they still could. Now it takes longer time for everyone to progress because of this new system. Right now we have a grind system…just like in season 1. Season 2 wasnt a grind because the better players progressed to where they belonged faster, average progressed quite fast also, it was just the worst of the worst who still were in amber/emerald.

Well, I do see how its favourable to seperate good and bad players quickly.
But the current system of placing them in different leagues to begin with appears to be much more promising.
All in all I stick to my statement
I am not good because I win
I win because im good
(Or maybe I dont win at all, but im not a pro player so thats alright)

And what do you prefer: Painful grinding for a meaningful reward, or a free ticket to a meaningless badge.

I afk’d in matches just as an experiment. Still won games. Where does it fit?

sanctuary.1068:

Its meaningless either way, because league means nothing. Everyone and their mother can get to legendary, all it require is time.

Also this ^^ lol

Anet, we have an afker…. a ban, at this point, is acceptable.

But video of it or it didn’t happen.

As far as the league being meaningless this season, you couldn’t be more wrong. First, because time is valuable and Noone would invest their time in something they deemed meaningless. Also, it’s kind of wierd that you agree with sanctuary, since you are struggling to climb the ladder.

sanctuary.1068:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Well, I invite you to peruse my posts. I ve read, tested and made my own MMR machine based on glicko 2 to see how the deviation shifted and else( such as, how many points ate awarded aftet a loss or win). I know the in and out of both systems.

Still you have low understanding of written sentences. Even when i quoted what Evan said and he even made an example of how it works (notice how season 1 mm was more 50%-50% matches) vs his third example for season 3 mm roughly 60%-40% examples (since its a bit influenced by season 2). Combine that with the quote you quoted yourself about the new mm for season 3, and wallah. Whats so hard to understand? It sounds like you dont understand written text very well, or the context in a text.

why are you making this complicated?? it looks as if you are the one who cant read. Look Evan is part of the balance team; Ok let me be blunt since you dont appreciate my kindness.

First you agree that S1 was 50/50 ok, now lets look at Evan S1 example:

Season 1 would have been closer:
6 – 7
6 – 5
5 – 5
5 – 4
4 – 4

Does this look like a 50/50 to you? Or are you just arguing for the sake of the argument.

Season 3 will be like a sorted version of season 1:
4 – 5
4 – 5
4 – 6
5 – 6
5 – 7

I am telling you his S3 example is an outlier. Evan is part of the balance Team and has released the above statement, whereas the balance TEAM AS A WHOLE said this:

League Matchmaking
Season 2 matchmaking was changed from Season 1 Ranked and Unranked matchmaking to help ensure league positions correlated more with skill instead of simply being based on the hours played. These changes saw a multitude of improvements for Season 2, but unfortunately they also spread out win rates further than we would have liked, as matches became a bit too uneven. We’ve created a new matchmaker for Season 3 that will strike a balance between the two previous seasons, accomplishing the same goals of accuracy from Season 2 but doing so with the evenness of matches that players experienced in Season 1

Have a nice say, and learn to read.

I bolded the most horrible thing I’ve read about MM ever. Why in all hells would you be rewarded with better teammates just b/c you no lifed this game. You could be the worst player in the game, but b/c you played a lot you get good teammates.

kitten that and it should have never been reincorporated in any form into season 3

/fail

That’s exactly why S2 was a joke, on top of that they matched you against anything. Like you had 10 vs 1, anywyas to answer your question: that what esport/ pro players asked for because they couldn’t stand 5 vs 5. To some extent, I understand them. But S3 is a lot better, and even with thi adds on, since the rating of both sides is considered.

But the bolded statement would hurt lots of player in amber. (An assumption)

Phil.8901:

My experience

- longer queue than s2
- not better games than s2

So yes, it’s worst than s2

I don’t think you know what you are saying, anywyas is that subjective or objective?

Kasteros.9847:

It is like some horrible joke. I get teammates that doesn’t really care about matches, can;t do a thing, doesn’t know how to target! FFS! They can’t even 1 v 1… S2 was good, you could rush to division made for you and then get some competitive matches, while now? It is like bunch of pvers vs pro pvpers every single match… and that is not cool :/

You are confusing both, S2 is where you had pro pvp er vs Low MMR player, on S3 everyone is given a fair chance ( 5 vs 5 or 4 vs 6 )

timmy.8732:

do you think Arena Net cares about pvp and how unbalanced the match making is? the answer is no. they do not care. they made it so that one team will have a better chance at winning the match based upon their MMR and the other is nothing but bottom feeders in MMR. ppl with the higher MMR are placed on a team against the 5 who have the lowest. they cater to the higher mmr rather than balance of teams. we all know this. so why has this season worse than it was before? the answer is that they cater to passive condi play rather than skill. so if you want to win and have better teams. just roll a condi build on any high condi application class.

This is not true, what you are describing is S2. In S3, you are given a fair chnace at winning. Here is what S3 try to accomplish :

If you are a 5, the system will try to team you with 5 and then match you against other 5s, so 5 vs 5, You can also get 4 vs 6 (but these games are winnable as well).

Teutos.8620:

Feedback from my journey through Sapphire:

Facts: I started playing this weekend on EU. I played 16-2; only 1 close game (one of my teammates confessed that this was his first game on a druid).

Personal Opinion: Only 1 of those 18 games felt good, rest of my opponents felt like going through the random mobs in a dungeon (not going to use the common slang-term generally used for them).
There were definitely some guys on the opponent side, which I definitely should not face MMR-wise, but the other games might just come down to the ‘snowbally’ nature of the game design.
Definitely not an expirience I want in a pvp game.

This is probably a consequence of S2, high vs Low. The S2 MMR overrated you, so instead of starting where you belong ( based on your skills), the system exaggerated your rating.

forum bug

/15 charr

Archon.6480:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Has anyone beat This is Balanced yet? I have tried going all tanky, and I still can’t beat him.. how is his build any different from what everyone else runs?? He I the only revs who is killing me in 20 sec.

Have you guys had any success against him?

He obliterates me every time. Held him at bay with full out condi build one time (which normally destroys e/o rev) I don’t know what he is doing, but… ouch. He just moves so fast…

ikr …

emkelly.2371:

Do you know what his build is? If i could look at it i may figure it out. don’t know if i could beat him but i could likelly figure out what he’s doing

Unfortunately, i dont.. his combo are pretty much like what every revs uses. But he knows when to use them, like when you dont expect him to. For example, Trackfull W (the new Abjured rev/sub) signature is taunt + their Staff 5 skill.

Toker, on the other hand, is just deadly. Like his timing is perfect. Next time, i am fighting against his rev, ill make sure to record it; and like i said, he use the same combos as everyone but his timing is insane.

Grats on amber tier 2.

Spirits Reloaded.3674:

matchmaking clearly not broken

Well, it’s clearly working, you had an Afk, so what were you expecting?

btw, after reading the chat, i wouldnt want collero on my team… Such a nasty attitude and outlook on games.

I pvp everyday, and i have no interest in the wings. But, to answer your question, yes!!

Sunfish.5970:

I have, warrior should never lose to rev…mesmers are killable too

on condi or power? if power can you share his weakness? like what helped you win?

I refuse to be taken out of context: I assume everyone can read.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Cynz.9437:

warbignime.4610:

So according to forum, loss streak =broken MM. Win streak =broken MM. 50%=broken MM. I can not even.

I think you misunderstand problem about 50% w/l. In most cases algorithm always puts together a team that has 90% win chance and other team with 10% win chances which leads to very lopsided and boring matches. Why is it done? To ensure that very 50% w/l ratio. Take same player with high MMR, he will be experiencing win-> loss->win -> loss -> win -> loss. It is not fun.

In any game where devs used common sense both teams have relative same chance to win. If you win more games you face better opponents but also get better teammates. In GW2 it is not the case. The old 50/50 algo always made sure you have 50% w/l ration (not win chance) by forcing you into lopsided matches. Season 2 also added extra logic which ensured that one team always had better chance to win to make players with high MMR to climb faster to high divisions. Those 2 combined led to real extremes in matches. Personally as a player i feel like i am strapped to the chair and forced to watch same 2 videos: 1 where my team gets spawn camped and next one where my team spawn camps enemy team. I don’t have any impact on outcome.

Dude, you couldn’t be more wrong, idk where you are reading that. But first before commenting on anything you are clueless about, my advice is to first read the notes or how the algo is supposed to work. Without more ado, here is how it works:

-BOTH TEAM HAVE A 50% CHANCE OF WINNING THE GANE it’s not 90% chance of winning or 10% of losing, that’s miscontruing the data or asinine math. How is 5 vs 5 result in one team having 90% chnace of winning???

-The outlier are 4 vs 6; and these games are winnable as well since all it takes is a mistake to turn the game around.

No, you are jut were you belong, accept that fact. If you can’t win 5 vs 5 or 4 vs 6. I am afraid you are were you belong, though achievement chaser could be hampering your progress but how often are you match with them?

Actually, you never explicitly said S1 was 50/50, but everyone pretty much agree that what the system tried to and Evan example is not representative of that, which pretty much lessen the credibility of his example. But my point is Evan is not the Balance TEAM, he is part of it. The balance team as whole released the following statement:

League Matchmaking
Season 2 matchmaking was changed from Season 1 Ranked and Unranked matchmaking to help ensure league positions correlated more with skill instead of simply being based on the hours played. These changes saw a multitude of improvements for Season 2, but unfortunately they also spread out win rates further than we would have liked, as matches became a bit too uneven. We’ve created a new matchmaker for Season 3 that will strike a balance between the two previous seasons, accomplishing the same goals of accuracy from Season 2 but doing so with the evenness of matches that players experienced in Season 1

Evan example go against what/how everyone think of S1 (50/50). So, it;s up to you, Do you want to be narrow minded and limit yourself to even example or Look at the bigger picture (BALANCE TEAM statement).

Now if you dont understand which statement holds more credibility then i have nothing else to say to you.

@supreme, i get the saltiness, i know how hard is it to beat your opposition; i am sorry that you can no longer stomp Low MMR players.

lmao, nice out of context quote, did you read the second point? like the next one?

sanctuary.1068:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Its closer to 50% but its not. Hence shouldn’t be called as such.. just like his S3 example is closer to 50 but its not.

dude, have a nice day. Youa re rambling nonsense now

Well you just proved me right. You told us all along we have a 50% winchance system while i said we now have a 60% to 40% win/lose chance. Thank you for proving me right finally, you can stop argue now.

Not at all, you are taking what i said out of context. You rambled for 1 hour about how S1 is 50/50 so 8 2 2 2 2 vs 4 4 4 2 2 (16 vs 16). Evan example doesn’t show that. So i have proved my point, but disproving one of your claim.

Its closer to 50% but its not. Hence shouldn’t be called as such.. just like his S3 example is closer to 50 but its not.

dude, have a nice day. Youa re rambling nonsense now

Cynz.9437:

Asrat.2645:

sanctuary.1068:

Yes its not fair, but it was a better measure of skill. The higher mmr players went to legendary fast, where they belonged, and it took longer for the lower mmr players to progress but they still could. Now it takes longer time for everyone to progress because of this new system. Right now we have a grind system…just like in season 1. Season 2 wasnt a grind because the better players progressed to where they belonged faster, average progressed quite fast also, it was just the worst of the worst who still were in amber/emerald.

Well, I do see how its favourable to seperate good and bad players quickly.
But the current system of placing them in different leagues to begin with appears to be much more promising.
All in all I stick to my statement
I am not good because I win
I win because im good
(Or maybe I dont win at all, but im not a pro player so thats alright)

And what do you prefer: Painful grinding for a meaningful reward, or a free ticket to a meaningless badge.

I afk’d in matches just as an experiment. Still won games. Where does it fit?

sanctuary.1068:

Its meaningless either way, because league means nothing. Everyone and their mother can get to legendary, all it require is time.

Also this ^^ lol

Anet, we have an afker…. a ban, at this point, is acceptable.

But video of it or it didn’t happen.

As far as the league being meaningless this season, you couldn’t be more wrong. First, because time is valuable and Noone would invest their time in something they deemed meaningless. Also, it’s kind of wierd that you agree with sanctuary, since you are struggling to climb the ladder.

sanctuary.1068:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Well, I invite you to peruse my posts. I ve read, tested and made my own MMR machine based on glicko 2 to see how the deviation shifted and else( such as, how many points ate awarded aftet a loss or win). I know the in and out of both systems.

Still you have low understanding of written sentences. Even when i quoted what Evan said and he even made an example of how it works (notice how season 1 mm was more 50%-50% matches) vs his third example for season 3 mm roughly 60%-40% examples (since its a bit influenced by season 2). Combine that with the quote you quoted yourself about the new mm for season 3, and wallah. Whats so hard to understand? It sounds like you dont understand written text very well, or the context in a text.

why are you making this complicated?? it looks as if you are the one who cant read. Look Evan is part of the balance team; Ok let me be blunt since you dont appreciate my kindness.

First you agree that S1 was 50/50 ok, now lets look at Evan S1 example:

Season 1 would have been closer:
6 – 7
6 – 5
5 – 5
5 – 4
4 – 4

Does this look like a 50/50 to you? Or are you just arguing for the sake of the argument.

Season 3 will be like a sorted version of season 1:
4 – 5
4 – 5
4 – 6
5 – 6
5 – 7

I am telling you his S3 example is an outlier. Evan is part of the balance Team and has released the above statement, whereas the balance TEAM AS A WHOLE said this:

League Matchmaking
Season 2 matchmaking was changed from Season 1 Ranked and Unranked matchmaking to help ensure league positions correlated more with skill instead of simply being based on the hours played. These changes saw a multitude of improvements for Season 2, but unfortunately they also spread out win rates further than we would have liked, as matches became a bit too uneven. We’ve created a new matchmaker for Season 3 that will strike a balance between the two previous seasons, accomplishing the same goals of accuracy from Season 2 but doing so with the evenness of matches that players experienced in Season 1

Have a nice say, and learn to read.

Well, I invite you to peruse my posts. I ve read, tested and made my own MMR machine based on glicko 2 to see how the deviation shifted and else( such as, how many points ate awarded aftet a loss or win). I know the in and out of both systems.

sanctuary.1068:

Fivedawgs.4267:

sanctuary.1068:

Fivedawgs.4267:

sanctuary.1068:

Fivedawgs.4267:

sanctuary.1068:

Did you people miss the official explaination from Anet in one of the threads that was posted a few days ago? The mm explaination isnt on wiki bc we have a totally new mm for season 3 that Anet created for the league only. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/so-we-re-back-to-50-50-matches/first.

One team will always have an advantage over the other in the matchups. Both teams never have 50% chance to win, more like 60%-40% to win/lose.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

season 3 we get both
i.e.

red – blue
8 – 8
8 – 9
9 – 8
8 – 9
9 – 8

something like that maybe.
otherwise, one team gonna have slightly higher overall MMR.

Season 1 would have been closer:
6 – 7
6 – 5
5 – 5
5 – 4
4 – 4

Your season 2 example is accurate, though could be closer in some circumstances.

Season 3 will be like a sorted version of season 1:
4 – 5
4 – 5
4 – 6
5 – 6
5 – 7

I belive that was an outlier, if the system can’t find a 5 vs 5 it will hop on a 6 vs 4. Based on my experience in game, I have yet to face a team where I was like kitten , the MM sucks. Every game I lost was due to afker, * no supp on my team* * Dc*, got outplayed, made a mistake, or matched with legendary wings chasers.

Nah i think it works exactly how Evan described it. In that way it could be possible to keep a close 50% winrate. If both teams had 50% to win every match, good players could have a really high winrate anyway. If you get 60% winchance you most of the time win bc the quality of the other teams skill is often really low with a few decent players in the teams. Everytime it goes well for me, win streaks, w.e, anet throws me into premades with low divisions in them. True story. The result is as expected, about 40% winrate in those matches when i get those scrubs.

Well what you are overshadowing is this :

League Matchmaking
Season 2 matchmaking was changed from Season 1 Ranked and Unranked matchmaking to help ensure league positions correlated more with skill instead of simply being based on the hours played. These changes saw a multitude of improvements for Season 2, but unfortunately they also spread out win rates further than we would have liked, as matches became a bit too uneven. We’ve created a new matchmaker for Season 3 that will strike a balance between the two previous seasons, accomplishing the same goals of accuracy from Season 2 but doing so with the evenness of matches that players experienced in Season 1

What Evans gave was an example, I believe it’s an outlier and you believe it’s not, that’s ok but it doesn’t change the fact that the system try to create “even essential of matches players experienced in S1” hence 5 vs 5.

In season 2 it made sure the higher mmr players would progress faster to legendary by teaming them together vs lower mmr players. Essentially the best season thus far measuring skill. Season 1 it mixed scrubs with pro players since divison was 50% of the mm and mmr 50% which lead to alot of scrubs got carried by the better players. Now in season 3 the mm tries to mix the higher mmr together so they have a slight advantage but not as in season 2 with such blowouts since its a smaller distance between the mmr teams. However, one team has ALWAYS an advantage over the other team as in slightly higher mmr.

And that’s not what this says:

League Matchmaking
Season 2 matchmaking was changed from Season 1 Ranked and Unranked matchmaking to help ensure league positions correlated more with skill instead of simply being based on the hours played. These changes saw a multitude of improvements for Season 2, but unfortunately they also spread out win rates further than we would have liked, as matches became a bit too uneven. We’ve created a new matchmaker for Season 3 that will strike a balance between the two previous seasons, accomplishing the same goals of accuracy from Season 2 but doing so with the evenness of matches that players experienced in Season 1

And I won’t even argue about S2 ladder being the best one,when it was the most despised ladder ever by pro player and casual alike. Helseth quite caused of it.

But you are entitled to your own opinion, hence your own interpretation of the data. So let’s just agree to disagree.

Its exactly what it says, you know how season 1 and 2 matchmaking worked right? I just explained to you how it worked. Thats how it is. Right now you just sound like you dont want to understand or simply…you dont understand xD Either way what i described is how it works. You always have about 60% to win or lose. Anet tweaked it in this way to not have such blowouts like in season 2. So now closer mmr groups fight vs eachother, but one team has always a slightly higher mmr than the other.

You explained nothing to me. I could write an essay on S1 and S2 matchmaking, and get an A ON IT. Here are the facts :

-I have studied the S1 and S2 matchmaker.
- I have more knowledge on both algo than YOU and that’s a fact.

If you knew how they both works, you wouldn’t have said that S2 was the best system; that’s what prompted me to end the conviction., since you are clueless about what you are saying.

Supreme.3164:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Cynz.9437:

And how are you gonna explain 500-100, 100-500, 500-100, 100-500 matches if you really think that each team has 50% win/loss chance? Unless i team up with someone or play later at night, it is always the same i either watch my team being spawn camped or my team spawn camps enemy team. Even matches are extremely rare.

Achievement chasers , mistake, noobs players/new player who rode the high MMR train last season. It has nothing to do with the MM system. Heck, I have won game where we were behind by 300 pts, all it takes is one mistake.

Let’s say a 1 rode the HIGH MMR ride during S2, so the system unmistakably label him as a 10, dont you think this guy would be a detriment on a 5 vs 5 game?

Another one is the disparities between both camps, like supp have to prioritize by the MMR. A team with no supp has slim chacne of winning against a team with a supp (ele).

In short, the MM algo is the best we ever had, and if u can’t win your matchup especially if you didn’t start in amber then maybe you are where you belong.

Who say you were not where you deserved to be last season?….the system is not better simply because it favours you am I right?

Last season you had teammates who shared similar MMr with you, this season we’re back to S1 50/50 bs where the match decided even before starting, but I guess they went back on this system..because if favour the bad players who are the majority..reason for all the qq threads last time

Nope far from it, the system is better because it’s 5 vs 5. If you re read my post, it’s implied that vet amber or emerald player can still face these problem since we still don’t know how the system ranks new player. We also don’t know if new player are evenly allocated to both team. But emerald or sapphire played are better off this season than the last, due to 5 vs 5 or 4 vs 6 (outlier).

Last season was rigged against vet with less than a 50% winrate. So in short, it was a joke.

sanctuary.1068:

Fivedawgs.4267:

sanctuary.1068:

Fivedawgs.4267:

sanctuary.1068:

Did you people miss the official explaination from Anet in one of the threads that was posted a few days ago? The mm explaination isnt on wiki bc we have a totally new mm for season 3 that Anet created for the league only. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/so-we-re-back-to-50-50-matches/first.

One team will always have an advantage over the other in the matchups. Both teams never have 50% chance to win, more like 60%-40% to win/lose.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

season 3 we get both
i.e.

red – blue
8 – 8
8 – 9
9 – 8
8 – 9
9 – 8

something like that maybe.
otherwise, one team gonna have slightly higher overall MMR.

Season 1 would have been closer:
6 – 7
6 – 5
5 – 5
5 – 4
4 – 4

Your season 2 example is accurate, though could be closer in some circumstances.

Season 3 will be like a sorted version of season 1:
4 – 5
4 – 5
4 – 6
5 – 6
5 – 7

I belive that was an outlier, if the system can’t find a 5 vs 5 it will hop on a 6 vs 4. Based on my experience in game, I have yet to face a team where I was like kitten , the MM sucks. Every game I lost was due to afker, * no supp on my team* * Dc*, got outplayed, made a mistake, or matched with legendary wings chasers.

Nah i think it works exactly how Evan described it. In that way it could be possible to keep a close 50% winrate. If both teams had 50% to win every match, good players could have a really high winrate anyway. If you get 60% winchance you most of the time win bc the quality of the other teams skill is often really low with a few decent players in the teams. Everytime it goes well for me, win streaks, w.e, anet throws me into premades with low divisions in them. True story. The result is as expected, about 40% winrate in those matches when i get those scrubs.

Well what you are overshadowing is this :

League Matchmaking
Season 2 matchmaking was changed from Season 1 Ranked and Unranked matchmaking to help ensure league positions correlated more with skill instead of simply being based on the hours played. These changes saw a multitude of improvements for Season 2, but unfortunately they also spread out win rates further than we would have liked, as matches became a bit too uneven. We’ve created a new matchmaker for Season 3 that will strike a balance between the two previous seasons, accomplishing the same goals of accuracy from Season 2 but doing so with the evenness of matches that players experienced in Season 1

What Evans gave was an example, I believe it’s an outlier and you believe it’s not, that’s ok but it doesn’t change the fact that the system try to create “even essential of matches players experienced in S1” hence 5 vs 5.

In season 2 it made sure the higher mmr players would progress faster to legendary by teaming them together vs lower mmr players. Essentially the best season thus far measuring skill. Season 1 it mixed scrubs with pro players since divison was 50% of the mm and mmr 50% which lead to alot of scrubs got carried by the better players. Now in season 3 the mm tries to mix the higher mmr together so they have a slight advantage but not as in season 2 with such blowouts since its a smaller distance between the mmr teams. However, one team has ALWAYS an advantage over the other team as in slightly higher mmr.

And that’s not what this says:

League Matchmaking
Season 2 matchmaking was changed from Season 1 Ranked and Unranked matchmaking to help ensure league positions correlated more with skill instead of simply being based on the hours played. These changes saw a multitude of improvements for Season 2, but unfortunately they also spread out win rates further than we would have liked, as matches became a bit too uneven. We’ve created a new matchmaker for Season 3 that will strike a balance between the two previous seasons, accomplishing the same goals of accuracy from Season 2 but doing so with the evenness of matches that players experienced in Season 1

And I won’t even argue about S2 ladder being the best one,when it was the most despised ladder ever by pro player and casual alike. Helseth quite caused of it.

But you are entitled to your own opinion, hence your own interpretation of the data. So let’s just agree to disagree.

sanctuary.1068:

Fivedawgs.4267:

sanctuary.1068:

Did you people miss the official explaination from Anet in one of the threads that was posted a few days ago? The mm explaination isnt on wiki bc we have a totally new mm for season 3 that Anet created for the league only. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/so-we-re-back-to-50-50-matches/first.

One team will always have an advantage over the other in the matchups. Both teams never have 50% chance to win, more like 60%-40% to win/lose.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

season 3 we get both
i.e.

red – blue
8 – 8
8 – 9
9 – 8
8 – 9
9 – 8

something like that maybe.
otherwise, one team gonna have slightly higher overall MMR.

Season 1 would have been closer:
6 – 7
6 – 5
5 – 5
5 – 4
4 – 4

Your season 2 example is accurate, though could be closer in some circumstances.

Season 3 will be like a sorted version of season 1:
4 – 5
4 – 5
4 – 6
5 – 6
5 – 7

I belive that was an outlier, if the system can’t find a 5 vs 5 it will hop on a 6 vs 4. Based on my experience in game, I have yet to face a team where I was like kitten , the MM sucks. Every game I lost was due to afker, * no supp on my team* * Dc*, got outplayed, made a mistake, or matched with legendary wings chasers.

Nah i think it works exactly how Evan described it. In that way it could be possible to keep a close 50% winrate. If both teams had 50% to win every match, good players could have a really high winrate anyway. If you get 60% winchance you most of the time win bc the quality of the other teams skill is often really low with a few decent players in the teams. Everytime it goes well for me, win streaks, w.e, anet throws me into premades with low divisions in them. True story. The result is as expected, about 40% winrate in those matches when i get those scrubs.

Well what you are overshadowing is this :

League Matchmaking
Season 2 matchmaking was changed from Season 1 Ranked and Unranked matchmaking to help ensure league positions correlated more with skill instead of simply being based on the hours played. These changes saw a multitude of improvements for Season 2, but unfortunately they also spread out win rates further than we would have liked, as matches became a bit too uneven. We’ve created a new matchmaker for Season 3 that will strike a balance between the two previous seasons, accomplishing the same goals of accuracy from Season 2 but doing so with the evenness of matches that players experienced in Season 1

What Evans gave was an example, I believe it’s an outlier and you believe it’s not, that’s ok but it doesn’t change the fact that the system try to create evenness of matches players experienced in S1 hence 5 vs 5.

sanctuary.1068:

Did you people miss the official explaination from Anet in one of the threads that was posted a few days ago? The mm explaination isnt on wiki bc we have a totally new mm for season 3 that Anet created for the league only. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/so-we-re-back-to-50-50-matches/first.

One team will always have an advantage over the other in the matchups. Both teams never have 50% chance to win, more like 60%-40% to win/lose.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

season 3 we get both
i.e.

red – blue
8 – 8
8 – 9
9 – 8
8 – 9
9 – 8

something like that maybe.
otherwise, one team gonna have slightly higher overall MMR.

Season 1 would have been closer:
6 – 7
6 – 5
5 – 5
5 – 4
4 – 4

Your season 2 example is accurate, though could be closer in some circumstances.

Season 3 will be like a sorted version of season 1:
4 – 5
4 – 5
4 – 6
5 – 6
5 – 7

I belive that was an outlier, if the system can’t find a 5 vs 5 it will hop on a 6 vs 4. Based on my experience in game, I have yet to face a team where I was like kitten , the MM sucks. Every game I lost was due to afker, * no supp on my team* * Dc*, got outplayed, made a mistake, or matched with legendary wings chasers.

Well, let’s see…

Cynz.9437:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Cynz.9437:

And how are you gonna explain 500-100, 100-500, 500-100, 100-500 matches if you really think that each team has 50% win/loss chance? Unless i team up with someone or play later at night, it is always the same i either watch my team being spawn camped or my team spawn camps enemy team. Even matches are extremely rare.

First reason Achievement chasers , mistake, noobs players/new player who rode the high MMR train last season. It has nothing to do with the MM system. Heck, I have won game where we were behind by 300 pts, all it takes is one mistake.

Detailed explanatiin of the first reason Let’s say a 1 rode the HIGH MMR ride during S2, so the system unmistakably label him as a 10, dont you think this guy would be a detriment on a 5 vs 5 game?

Second reason Another one is the disparities between both camps, like supp have to prioritize by the MMR. A team with no supp has slim chacne of winning against a team with a supp (ele).

In short, the MM algo is the best we ever had, and if u can’t win your matchup especially if you didn’t start in amber then maybe you are where you belong.

You really don’t read what i say do you? I give up.

Just say, you are giving up because you are wrong .. that works as well

Cynz.9437:

And how are you gonna explain 500-100, 100-500, 500-100, 100-500 matches if you really think that each team has 50% win/loss chance? Unless i team up with someone or play later at night, it is always the same i either watch my team being spawn camped or my team spawn camps enemy team. Even matches are extremely rare.

Achievement chasers , mistake, noobs players/new player who rode the high MMR train last season. It has nothing to do with the MM system. Heck, I have won game where we were behind by 300 pts, all it takes is one mistake.

Let’s say a 1 rode the HIGH MMR ride during S2, so the system unmistakably label him as a 10, dont you think this guy would be a detriment on a 5 vs 5 game?

Another one is the disparities between both camps, like supp have to prioritize by the MMR. A team with no supp has slim chacne of winning against a team with a supp (ele).

In short, the MM algo is the best we ever had, and if u can’t win your matchup especially if you didn’t start in amber then maybe you are where you belong.

Ok, I believe my name is a brand on this forum, on its way to the ESL; so i wont be label as a forum clown. That warrant a defamation lawsuit… But @Dominika, what is it about my statement that you disagree with?

Cynz.9437:

warbignime.4610:

So according to forum, loss streak =broken MM. Win streak =broken MM. 50%=broken MM. I can not even.

I think you misunderstand problem about 50% w/l. In most cases algorithm always puts together a team that has 90% win chance and other team with 10% win chances which leads to very lopsided and boring matches. Why is it done? To ensure that very 50% w/l ratio. Take same player with high MMR, he will be experiencing win-> loss->win -> loss -> win -> loss. It is not fun.

In any game where devs used common sense both teams have relative same chance to win. If you win more games you face better opponents but also get better teammates. In GW2 it is not the case. The old 50/50 algo always made sure you have 50% w/l ration (not win chance) by forcing you into lopsided matches. Season 2 also added extra logic which ensured that one team always had better chance to win to make players with high MMR to climb faster to high divisions. Those 2 combined led to real extremes in matches. Personally as a player i feel like i am strapped to the chair and forced to watch same 2 videos: 1 where my team gets spawn camped and next one where my team spawn camps enemy team. I don’t have any impact on outcome.

Dude, you couldn’t be more wrong, idk where you are reading that. But first before commenting on anything you are clueless about, my advice is to first read the notes or how the algo is supposed to work. Without more ado, here is how it works:

-BOTH TEAM HAVE A 50% CHANCE OF WINNING THE GANE it’s not 90% chance of winning or 10% of losing, that’s miscontruing the data or asinine math. How is 5 vs 5 result in one team having 90% chnace of winning???

-The outlier are 4 vs 6; and these games are winnable as well since all it takes is a mistake to turn the game around.

No, you are jut were you belong, accept that fact. If you can’t win 5 vs 5 or 4 vs 6. I am afraid you are were you belong, though achievement chaser could be hampering your progress but how often are you match with them?

These thread again, lol if you don’t want the icon next to your name ..don’t play pvp but as of yet, no.

Exedore.6320:

Fivedawgs.4267:

This could have been true during S1 or 2, we have one of the best balance ever , 8 out of 9 class are meta, according to everyone. And the power creep is getting tone down patch after patch.

That’s sarcasm, right? Balance is still a total joke in GW2.

Good balance in GW2 was 1-2 years ago. Every profession was viable, many with multiple builds. Skilled play of a non-meta build beat mediocre play of a non-meta build. Meta builds still had clear weaknesses.

Nope far, from it. And i said one of the best (top 5, imo).

Baronvonhippo.3157:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Baronvonhippo.3157:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Baronvonhippo.3157:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Question: Why are you playing this game if WoW is more enjoyable?

Anyone who has played WoW knows their pvp is braindead and pricey, so long as the tittle of this thread doesnt change, you are full of it.

False dichotomy much? It’s crazy but maybe he likes other aspects of this game better just not the pvp? Really try and think before posting.

i believe this is the pvp section, i could careless if the OP like Pve or WvW better than spvp. His points might or might not be valid, but the title should be changed if the OP want hardcore MMO player to take him seriously.

So what if it’s the pvp section doesn’t make your statement any less ignorant. And not sure why you think you get to speak for all “hardcore MMO players” but you certainly don’t speak for me. If you can’t handle this discussion don’t click on the title that simple really.

So, you think WoW pvp is better than ours (S3)?

You really have a strange habit of just reading what you want to see. Not once have I said that, please try and follow the discussion rather than trying your best to demonize others. You make baseless accusations with nothing to back it. Your first post was basically you telling him his opinion is wrong, you realize how illogical that is?

I agree, However, if the OP want us to take him serious, don’t you think the title is apocryphal?

Actually, you are right … i’ll refrain from posting until the OP change his title..

Have fun,

Exedore.6320:

WoW PvP and GW2 PvP are both terrible right now. I played both for years.

Mechanically, GW2 is way better. * But the balance is inexcusably bad. GW2 balance has fallen to the point where facerolling a meta build lets you compete in skill with almost everyone else.*

WoW PvP has fallen victim to power creep (it usually does once the second raid set of the expansion comes out) and is too dependent on 1.5-3min cooldowns.

This could have been true during S1 or 2, we have one of the best balance ever , 8 out of 9 class are meta, according to everyone. And the power creep is getting tone down patch after patch.

Baronvonhippo.3157:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Baronvonhippo.3157:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Question: Why are you playing this game if WoW is more enjoyable?

Anyone who has played WoW knows their pvp is braindead and pricey, so long as the tittle of this thread doesnt change, you are full of it.

False dichotomy much? It’s crazy but maybe he likes other aspects of this game better just not the pvp? Really try and think before posting.

i believe this is the pvp section, i could careless if the OP like Pve or WvW better than spvp. His points might or might not be valid, but the title should be changed if the OP want hardcore MMO player to take him seriously.

So what if it’s the pvp section doesn’t make your statement any less ignorant. And not sure why you think you get to speak for all “hardcore MMO players” but you certainly don’t speak for me. If you can’t handle this discussion don’t click on the title that simple really.

So, you think WoW pvp is better than ours (S3)?

Baronvonhippo.3157:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Question: Why are you playing this game if WoW is more enjoyable?

Anyone who has played WoW knows their pvp is braindead and pricey, so long as the tittle of this thread doesnt change, you are full of it.

False dichotomy much? It’s crazy but maybe he likes other aspects of this game better just not the pvp? Really try and think before posting.

i believe this is the pvp section, i could careless if the OP like Pve or WvW better than spvp. His points might or might not be valid, but the title should be changed if the OP want hardcore MMO player to take him seriously.

Question: Why are you playing this game if WoW is more enjoyable?

Anyone who has played WoW knows their pvp is braindead and pricey, so long as the tittle of this thread doesnt change, you are full of it.

WARRIOR 100b: getting randomly interupted.

Warrior rush: running through the target or not landing on the target.

Ok devs listen, the problem with condi warrior is their condi dmg output. The AH, HS is vital to a power Warr. Condi warr atm is necro taking advantage of our defense. So if you ever tweak something, tweak our condi dmg output, DONT touch HS or Adrenal Hp or CI or RR. Fix the problem, by tweaking our condi output. Warrior is not a condi class and it shouldnt pump as much condi as a necro whist taking advantage of our defenses.

Same here, I am failing to grasp the DH sucks crowd. The skill cap on DH has been increased, the class itself is still meta. My belief is that the skill cap on the class has being increase, so inexperienced player can no longer stomp through Sparta. But I have seen experienced DH complained about their class as well… Still, I don’t see how they out of meta? Are they weaker? Yes? Out of meta? I doubt it ( just my opinion)

Obindo.6802:

Fivedawgs.4267:

air + Force is the one of, if not, the best combo…

Force is trash

What’s better than it? Because I have been using it since I made my charr, so if there is actually something better than 5% dmg increase overboard ; then i want to get my hands on it.

Also I don’t use discipline, so which sigil should I use instead of force.

He uses something close to this one: (shin’s build)

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQRAsf5enEdAlkidhAWhAEliFjADZEsCWeGBgNYO7t4mcfuA-TJBHwAlfCAAOJAq3fIZZAA

Replace mender with HS.

As far as the amulet, you can go carrion/ or anything with power vit condi dmg or condi dmg + expertize, the RR would give you all the toughness you need.

air + Force is the one of, if not, the best combo…

Well, lets see:

Furajir.3815:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Furajir.3815:

power warr > condi warr in a 1v1 situation. Smash Brawler + CI = too good, i have zero issues with condi warrs

Not for Mace+shield+sword torch when figthing an equally skilled player. Condi warriors that use wanders amulet can easily stack conditions past your resistance uptime. Also mace+shield+sword+torch do not have any less CC or blocks then the power warrior variants. Condi warriors can apply bleeds and confusion on interrupts and berserker mace burst with smash brawler has blind, bleed confusion cripple starting at 6 to all the way to 11 seconds without any runes or sigils that increase condi duration. that’s basic wander amulet.

I can see you having a point for the longbow version tough as it’s primary condition is burinig.

add to that RR + outrage and dead or alive( 30 sec cd), you get a beast.

So to put in in perspective, thats 5k hp from dead of alive every 30 sec which proc everytime they are against a power warrior.

+ 2.5 k Hp and 1000 toughness every 10 sec

+100% condi dmg.

Yeah but rousing resiliance is not what condi warriors run. Atleast the mace shield sword torch variant. That’d be incredibly detrimental to our sustain. U’d get kittened by necro mancers and even conditon mallyx.

Not sure where u see that? Your build perhaps?

Proved you wrong there, two Meta battle build uses RR and shin Condi build uses RR as well, and he made it during S2 when there was necro all over the place. Do not forget that warrior get 9 second resistance from Bezerker stance + 6 sec of resistance from HS.
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Berserker_-_Ragezerker (sword torch mace shield build)
Shin build is similar to that one, http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQRAsf5enEdAlkidhAWhAEliFjADZEsCWeGBgNYO7t4mcfuA-TJBHwAlfCAAOJAq3fIZZAA
so is hibify build. So it’s not only my build, newbie? It’s two pro build and one from meta battle. And they climbed with it DURING S2.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Well, anyone with experience knows that taking RR or CI depends on your camp. I am a power warrior, so most condi warrior i face take RR …

But that’s a non issue in pvp. Condi’s are pretty much part of the game. It has nothing to do with experience it simply makes little sense here. It’s not just the hard hitting conditions but soft lockdown conditions as well u’d be a sitting duck. Which condi warrior in pvp is gonna give up cleansing ire just because they face a power warrior? As if you are the single player they are gonna balance thier spec around?

U don’t even need rousing resilence AH is more then enough espically with wanderers amulet.

First, your opponents cant see the build you are using, they have no way of telling if you are power or not. So it’s come down to going RR when facing a Power camp or CI when facing a Condi camp. To answer your question: Shin (pro warrior does), Final Form warrior (during ESL did) even though he faced NOS one of the best necro NA. And everyone using the metabattle ragezerker do as well.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Again your kittening reading comprehension fails again. Jesus kittening Christ. I wasn’t even talking about the different warrior condi builds. What the kitten did you think I was talking about. About the fact that condi Builds are a thing. Why did u think i named necro’s chrono and other classes in my previous posts. It’s because of kitten like this u get all emotional while there is simply no need to. But since we are busy with those anways. Notice now the mace+shield+sword+torch variant has it’s weakness listed as a condi bomb? I know that. And why the kitten would you bring a test build here that uses arms. And an outright outdated build. the Mecenary Burnbow is the same kittening thing as the current macebow.. U cannot even kittening be honest with youtself here. This kitten on top of a kittening strawmen. BTW I never even accused you of claiming that there was just 1 condi build.

At the moment LB Zerker, Mace shield+Sword Torch with varriing amulets wanders,vipers are bieng used. Those that use rousing resilence share the same weakness of condi bombs as i pointed out earlier. Espically the bleed burn bow which doesn’t even have disispline a highly inpractical build. Nothing more then the pre-evolution of the current LB zerkers we see now.

Ok. read my sentence again. Did I did i not kittening claim that which u claimed when u illulstrated is not representive of the league? Do you know know that. I’m accusing you of wishfull thinking because that which u experienced. So when I add the league. And explain that which u encounterd does represent the league. Then what do you think that the bigger picture is here? U have your anectocal evidence which is really nothing more then your reality and what u percieve. So I come with the reality check which u so much need. Hence wishfull thinking.

>Metabattle illulstrates multiple condi builds.

>The PvP section complains about conditions lie, folks in the pvp section are complaining about condi warrior; necro and Mesmer have already being toned down

>They outright complain about condi builds. lie again, they are complaining about condi warrior, I have yet to a see a post complaining about condi Mesmer, or necro since S3 started

Jesus christ. It’s like I have to kittening explain half of what i say twice. Well, i am not surprised since you dont know what you wrote, writing, said or saying

First bolded statement:

First of all, Don’t u kittening strawman me and berate me for bieng ’’rude’’ and get all uptity with me, based on your own failed reading comprehension. They are curently 3 condi builds that are kittening meta. With an added double melee condi berserker variation that is not meta in metabattle but doing quite well and can be argued to be meta.

So, you weren’t talking about 3 different condi build but you talked about them.. yeah, I am confused as well.

Second Bolded statement:
Iol, I didn’t say they were viable or not. I just showed you condi build with RR, which was the subject of our convo.. if you want to tango alone, then do so. Lol, talking about reading incomprehension.

Third bolded statement:
Asinine logic on point. I ve provided a screenshot from another player. So, there is a huge difference between Wishfull thinking(something made out of thin air) and you know what “that might be a possibility.”

Well, have a nice day sir… I am open for further discussion if you are still confused, but for now i’ll focus on life.

Mashedwarf.8235:

I switch between Condi and Power to mix things up a bit, but there’s no doubt that Condi is more effective overall against equally skilled opponents. Sure Power is a lot more fun to play, but all you have to do is avoid the easily avoided Bursts of the Power build and they are sitting ducks… With LB you don’t have that concern.

Also… the RR and CI debate… You guys are being ridiculous! Each have their own merits, and fit particular builds/comps. There isn’t just ONE way to play b/c not every match is identical… and if you play like there is only one, then you’re going to get wrecked.

My point exactly.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Well, anyone with experience knows that taking RR or CI depends on your camp. I am a power warrior, so most condi warrior i face take RR …

But that’s a non issue in pvp. Condi’s are pretty much part of the game. It has nothing to do with experience it simply makes little sense here. It’s not just the hard hitting conditions but soft lockdown conditions as well u’d be a sitting duck. Which condi warrior in pvp is gonna give up cleansing ire just because they face a power warrior? As if you are the single player they are gonna balance thier spec around?

U don’t even need rousing resilence AH is more then enough espically with wanderers amulet.

Dude, which trait are you going to take?

2 revs 1 engi 1 ele 1 warrior ?? if you are a condi warrior?

or 2 rev 1 thief 2 Dh ? if you are a condi warrior

or 2 rev 1 warrior 2 DH??? if you are a condi warrior?

This isnt season 2, with necro roaming all over the place. What’s so hard to get???

But those comps are not quite representive of the comps u meet this season. That’s wishfull thinking. Power has not replaced conditions. Necromancers and Mesmers are still quite present. But yeah if u encountered pure power teams then yeah u can run rousing resiliance, the warriors might make me reconsider since they can be another warrior.

You’re right. This is season 3 In which u see Condi Mesmers, Other Condi Warriors, Condi Necro’s(1 to maby 2 max in a team) running around. Condi Mesmers are a guarantee to show up really and the other 2 have a high chance of appearing. Heck even elementalist can deal quite a bit of chill and burn that will chip away at you and in a teamfight when u get hardfocused. So even in those comps u proposed u still have to actually reconsider taking rousin resilence or Cleansing ire or not, there are things like lockdowns.

Tf is wrong with you? How is my experience which is back by data wishful thinking?? Wtf are you?? Amber? ? Why don’t you scan the pvp section and see what type of games most people are having. The 50/50 thread in pvp section, there is no condi class whatsoever on both camp???

Or do you even watch other players?? Shin, hibify the dude who optimized the mace shield sw torch condi build both uses RR.

Tf stop being narrow minded., calling someone anecdotal experience wishful thinking is rude kid, especially when you have nothing but ur anecdotal experience to back it.

Here are the post you should check:

First of all, Don’t u kittening strawman me and berate me for bieng ’’rude’’ and get all uptity with me, based on your own failed reading comprehension. They are curently 3 condi builds that are kittening meta. With an added double melee condi berserker variation that is not meta in metabattle but doing quite well and can be argued to be meta. Condition builds are here. And no amount of ranting is gonna change that.

I’m calling things as I see it. I never denied your anedecotl experience rather i argue it’s not representive of the kittening league. Learn to kittening read. Next time act normal.

lol, are we still debating if CI or RR depends on camps or what? And here you are pulling there are 3 condi build:

Well here are 3 meta battle build:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Berserker_-_Bleed_%26_Burn
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Berserker_-_Burnbow
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Berserker_-_Macebow
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Berserker_-_Ragezerker

2 out of those 4 use RR. So what are you grasping at? i never said, there was only 1 condi build… or Have you ever watched shin or hibify stream?

lmao what you meant by wishfull thinking then?

Wishful thinking is the formation of beliefs and making decisions according to what might be pleasing to imagine instead of by appealing to evidence, rationality, or reality. It is a product of resolving conflicts between belief and desire.

According to wikepedia, so tell me hows that not denying my anecdotal experience or this player anecdoatal experience. Since, we are, supposedly, making our claims out of thin air or do you not comprehend the meaning of the word you use?

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/224830/zzzz.png

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Well, anyone with experience knows that taking RR or CI depends on your camp. I am a power warrior, so most condi warrior i face take RR …

But that’s a non issue in pvp. Condi’s are pretty much part of the game. It has nothing to do with experience it simply makes little sense here. It’s not just the hard hitting conditions but soft lockdown conditions as well u’d be a sitting duck. Which condi warrior in pvp is gonna give up cleansing ire just because they face a power warrior? As if you are the single player they are gonna balance thier spec around?

U don’t even need rousing resilence AH is more then enough espically with wanderers amulet.

Dude, which trait are you going to take?

2 revs 1 engi 1 ele 1 warrior ?? if you are a condi warrior?

or 2 rev 1 thief 2 Dh ? if you are a condi warrior

or 2 rev 1 warrior 2 DH??? if you are a condi warrior?

This isnt season 2, with necro roaming all over the place. What’s so hard to get???

But those comps are not quite representive of the comps u meet this season. That’s wishfull thinking. Power has not replaced conditions. Necromancers and Mesmers are still quite present. But yeah if u encountered pure power teams then yeah u can run rousing resiliance, the warriors might make me reconsider since they can be another warrior.

You’re right. This is season 3 In which u see Condi Mesmers, Other Condi Warriors, Condi Necro’s(1 to maby 2 max in a team) running around. Condi Mesmers are a guarantee to show up really and the other 2 have a high chance of appearing. Heck even elementalist can deal quite a bit of chill and burn that will chip away at you and in a teamfight when u get hardfocused. So even in those comps u proposed u still have to actually reconsider taking rousin resilence or Cleansing ire or not, there are things like lockdowns.

Tf is wrong with you? How is my experience which is back by data wishful thinking?? Wtf are you?? Amber? ? Why don’t you scan the pvp section and see what type of games most people are having. The 50/50 thread in pvp section, there is no condi class whatsoever on both camp???

Or do you even watch other players?? Shin, hibify the dude who optimized the mace shield sw torch condi build both uses RR.

Tf stop being narrow minded., calling someone anecdotal experience wishful thinking is rude kid, especially when you have nothing but ur anecdotal experience to back it.

Here are the post you should check:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/50-50-algo-promotes-mmr-tanking/first#post6164625

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Well, anyone with experience knows that taking RR or CI depends on your camp. I am a power warrior, so most condi warrior i face take RR …

But that’s a non issue in pvp. Condi’s are pretty much part of the game. It has nothing to do with experience it simply makes little sense here. It’s not just the hard hitting conditions but soft lockdown conditions as well u’d be a sitting duck. Which condi warrior in pvp is gonna give up cleansing ire just because they face a power warrior? As if you are the single player they are gonna balance thier spec around?

U don’t even need rousing resilence AH is more then enough espically with wanderers amulet.

Dude, which trait are you going to take?

2 revs 1 engi 1 ele 1 warrior ?? if you are a condi warrior?

or 2 rev 1 thief 2 Dh ? if you are a condi warrior

or 2 rev 1 warrior 2 DH??? if you are a condi warrior?

This isnt season 2, with necro roaming all over the place. What’s so hard to get???

Well, anyone with experience knows that taking RR or CI depends on your camp. I am a power warrior, so most condi warrior i face take RR …

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Furajir.3815:

power warr > condi warr in a 1v1 situation. Smash Brawler + CI = too good, i have zero issues with condi warrs

Not for Mace+shield+sword torch when figthing an equally skilled player. Condi warriors that use wanders amulet can easily stack conditions past your resistance uptime. Also mace+shield+sword+torch do not have any less CC or blocks then the power warrior variants. Condi warriors can apply bleeds and confusion on interrupts and berserker mace burst with smash brawler has blind, bleed confusion cripple starting at 6 to all the way to 11 seconds without any runes or sigils that increase condi duration. that’s basic wander amulet.

I can see you having a point for the longbow version tough as it’s primary condition is burinig.

add to that RR + outrage and dead or alive( 30 sec cd), you get a beast.

So to put in in perspective, thats 5k hp from dead of alive every 30 sec which proc everytime they are against a power warrior.

+ 2.5 k Hp and 1000 toughness every 10 sec

+100% condi dmg.

I run power as well but condi is way too strong to the point where it’s almost unkillable.

Cynz.9437:

Fivedawgs.4267:

lol, you had an ele and you lost?

Look again -_-

oh you were the thief, kitten .. So you had an ele in your team as well? that was a balanced game right there.. i cant believe they lost by that much,..,

Zenith.7301:

Furajir.3815:

Zenith.7301:

Nerf might stacking/generation and stance duration and warriors will be fine. Healing Signet has always been one of the most OP heals as has been Defiant Stance, much like Revenant’s Glint heal.

Warriors do such ridiculous damage because they can might stack so easily and their base numbers on greatsword are ridiculously large.

What other class has a 6.5 sec cd weaponskill that cleaves for 50k+ damage in PvE?

In PvP a warrior with 100b takes off 2/3 of a 2300 toughness condi ranger’s HP. That’s a toughness specced shamans ranger, it’s absurd.

Not even thief backstabs hit that hard, and the warrior has enough CC combos to assure a 100b landing, between headbutt/bull’s charge and mace/shield.

Similarly, warrior hammer autoattacks and skills do pretty high base damage.

Warrior scalings need to be tweaked so warriors need to invest as much into offense and be as vulnerable as a berzerker ele or thief to do the kind of damage a warrior is doing.

Problem is that warrior is essentially a berk thief/ele with double the HP, a bunch of immunity stances, tons of condi clear, and high base weapon damage.

At least ele requires plenty of finesse and might stack rotations to do its damage while a warrior only needs to hit someone with their greatsword and profit off 15+ might stacks.

You have zero clue what youre talking about. So now its both condi and power you have an issue with? I guess a 9s resistance buff on a 60s cd and a 4s MELEE immune only stance on a 60s cd is too op?

15 might stacks just off GS attacks? You do realize you have to go Strength line to even get might on crit which noone takes unless they run vanilla.

Corner, now.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain

Not just melee attacks.

Come join in the corner, it’s cozy here.

What do you mean by not just melee attacks?