Yup, I kept on lagging g though rout the season, I remeber playing against a mesmer hacker. And 5o day I was teamed against a thief tper, to kill him I had to cleave him, stomping him wouldn’t work ( tried to confirm my suspicion). He kept on TP ing from base to our home point in a sec.
Love the response from Soothsayer btw. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Hacks & Cheats do exist in GW2. Run a google search, learn how to identify it and how to report it.
But yeah, I’ve experienced a lot of random lag spikes to the point of DCing during season 2. I’ve never had this problem before season 2 and it doesn’t matter who’s ISP I am using “I play at many different locations”. It only ever happens to me while I’m in a pvp match. Usually when my team is winning. Never happens in PvE or WvW.
~ Go figure
^ This
If it’s somehow consoling: I’m having lagspikes too – my pingplotter is running all the time so I actually see where the connection is bad, or better should see it.
I have a new router which doesn’t work too well atm, so i’m sometimes having nasty lags because of that. Then my internet provider thinks that throtteling is a good thing so one of the 12 hubs usually has got 100% packet loss – my game still works but it’s laggy.
Sometimes I have some minor spikes on ncsoft but that’s pretty rare but I do have lags ~2 seconds freezes which are unexplained. That in wvw and PvE and probably also pvp. so I guess no one is hacking you but the game has got some issues at the moment.
Did you even read the thread? ? Why are you assuming it’s his router?? Or have you SKIPPED THE PART where he said he researched the subject???
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Nope, lol but its doing 17 dmg now. They either kittened it up during the patch or did what k pop is suggesting (additive boons on rev)
Have you tried rune of the traveler? Give you a permanent 20% speed boost..
Terrible compared to what? … the only leap with have which works like it is bull charges, with the suggested change it will be able to recharge ur adrenaline bar if you land on someone, 10% vulnerability and a 2 sec knockdown.
Even as kittenty as it is now, sundering leap with gs/ hammer can work. Like your sunder leap to the target ( work better in team fight) then F1 hammer switch to greats word , headbutt then 100 b. So..
But it’s def taller, and this is just a suggestion. Hill to the bone aoe spam and cc at the same time. Dude. Can’t wait for necros to be nerfed, and revs are broken as kitten; still In your opinion tweaking sundering leap would be too much. Man the double standards.
So aoe burning and cripple is not aoe spam?? Because that’s what this skill currently does. And warrior should have access to as many CC as possible, because that’s our job. Giving us condi instead of aoe is kinda meh, just my opinion though.
And nothing is getting buffed they will just switch one for the other.
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Remove the burning and cripple from suddrring leap and a add a 2 or 3 sec knockdown.
Then how do you explain his other account ( alt/ non hot) being in diamond??
The difference between his accounts is mid -ruby and diamond not sapphire and prestige x5
I mean it seems like he wants to prove that there is sth like mmr and bad mm – I think we all know this but his example is super bad to prove this.
Then why is he still stuck in ruby with main; the difference could be prestige ×10 legendary or saphire; as long as it’s the same player on both account , I d expect him to be legendary ×10 on both of his account as well.
Then how do you prove that ( bolded statement) ?? Because I thought his way (from a player perspective) was the only way. Is there another way to prove it?
Here’s the problem:
You have an invisible ranking called MMR. Your team is based off your MMR and the other team has no correlation to yours. So newer accounts start at a higher MMR than lots a long term players. So they get “carried” by good players while a long term vet who didn’t pvp lots gets punished with bad players on their team
Literally weeks ago had 3 thieves on my team with me on mes and another on ele. We were winning team fights with all thieves. Needless to say there was 1 player on the other team who was VERY talented. I felt REALLY bad for them because there was nothing he could do.
Pretty much this … and @Ajax, I believe he was agreeing with your post. New players have higher MMR than vets, that’s is If you played during S1 or ant season before. So the MMR is fAulty because any of the following could/can happen 10 vs 1 5 vs 5 and 1 vs 10. And trust me I have a 30% winrate myself and it’s was HELL to get out of ruby.
You have barely a winrate of 50% on your main acc while playing a strange build…
so Idkmm is defintly bad but I wouldn’t blame mm for you being stucked in ruby ,tho
Then how do you explain his other account ( alt/ non hot) being in diamond?? I mean it’s the same person playing the game.
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True I agree, also condi is Def better than power in this meta. But when it comes to power, we can go toe to toe with revs, our survavility is what’s lacking.
And k pop about us having th vest dps in game, that’s what I tried to tell shin or any other pro warriors, but I always get revs are dps king. Since I don’t play rev, have you compared their dps to ours. Because I am 100% sure, that we are the dps king and we just need a supp to excel at our role. True, our attack are slow and whatever…
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Interesting thread indeed, I don’t know what to make of it.
Grats dude, and yeah tempest + dps combo is OP. Yesterday or the day before, I was able to gold far with Wakkey from about 5 min. We lost the gam by 100 point because we had an Afk from the get go. So yeah, but nothing can beat ele + rev.
True warrior might be weak atm, but a good warrior van hold his own. ( I belive that’s his point) forcing people to play classes they aren’t skilled at, would only, if anything., cost your team the game.
But seriously the warrior hate has to stop.
And #5 is so true.
100% true.
I will keep playing GW as I play it from start of GW1 but I should rather quit the game and come back 2 weeks before next pro qualifier tournament.
Only 8 teams are playing competitive PvP atm (and for only 1 game per week but nvm).I got 4th place in the last challenger cup and now nothing to do until June/July because my teammates left the game given that there is no other competitive and interesting tournament (which is definitely understandable).
Getting to legendary division takes 1 week and the matchmaking is completely broken.
The highest legendary rank you have the better matchmaking you will get. I duoQ with a friend who is rank 19 and we ALWAYS are in a full PRO players team against a full NO NAMES players team. I can feel the pain of my enemies during those games. BUT nvm this message is not about matchmaking algorithm or division system, it’s about competitive tournament.At least with the Go4GW we used to have some competitive games every week, and any team could participate. I don’t know, open the pro league to everybody and give rewards/stream the top 8 team per week. Or make the Go4GW back and keep both of them up.
Cheers.
True, well it’s always has been like that, first it was because low player base.
But at first it was because of lack of monetary rewards etc. And now, when they did had influx of player base and people actually playing PvP, they managed to screw up again elsewhere.
It’s like they just can’t do everything right for 1 kitten time.
I guess you can call it the E.T.A. Hoffman syndrome.
I guess they can always tweak sundering leap since Noone uses it atm.
About the thieves, seriously thieves are ok they don’t need a buff. They can literally make you disappear in 4 sec.
Wouldn’t this amulet be OP on druids? Currently most are using mended which doesn’t have toughness. I wonder what would happen if this ever through.
They would miss the precision. Rangers cant be full support/heal, the pet’s+weapons passive pressure is a big part of their strenght.
Boon duration, although helpful, is also not as beneficial as it is for ele’s.
Ok…
Wouldn’t this amulet be OP on druids? Currently most are using mended which doesn’t have toughness. I wonder how well they would sync with this.
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Players have to be disconnected for two minutes before they get dishonor and the other players on the team get a forfeit instead of a defeat.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Disconnect-Still-Lose-a-Pip/first#post6032271
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So which MM algorithm did S1 use? MMR vs MMR ? If yes then only one pip was awarded per wins and few were those who gained 2 or 3 pip for losing or winning.
And my understanding of the extra pip is when one of the player on your team was a pro or whatever. But most people would agree it was MMR vs MMR; knowing how glicko 2 works, I can say with 95% certainty that less than 1% of the player base gained more than 10 pip total (extra from win and 5hose for loss) last season.
Finally, I am not disputing the growth because once there is a possibility anything can happen. What I am disputing is YOUR ASSEMENT THAT LOW MMR PLAYERS used method 1 and 2 to get to legendary, and I have pretty much explained why ( bunker meta aside.)
But you haven’t explained it. You just made assumptions that make *no sense. *
A Show me where my logic is faulty so i can beyter it for you.
Your purported knowledge of Glicko-2 is completely irrelevant — what you need is data about the MMR distribution curve in S1, along with player activity.
A: I am using a normally distributed curve which is pretty standard for humans studies. Since that’s the tone you want to use, any of your above post are hot air as well. Unless, you managed to get your hand on the data.
You apparently agree that anyone could reach Legendary in S1 with a 50% winrate.
A: i guess by saying possible. I am agreeing with you.
So now you argue that only ~1% of people did so — a statistic you’ve completely made up without any data.
A: Nope, i never said this, you read my wrong. I agree witht eh 50% winrate tp legendary. Because a pro player last season could tank his MMR as low as he wanted; due to the simple fact HE COULD CARRY his next game. A low MMR player cant,. Futhermore , I said less than 1% of the player base gained more than 10 pips total last season by either losing or accumulating extra pip. So, the percentage have nothing to do with the 50% winrate to legendary.I have used it to debunked the Low MMR vs Low MMR in diamond
I don’t know how many “low MMR” people hit Legendary, either — only A.net has that answer. But it was obviously a significant enough number to generate all the “I made Legendary in S1 but am in MMR hell for S2” posts that we now see.
_A: don’t they have a point? Seing how the system works, i woukdnt be surprised.First. I have shown to you to the best of my abilities that a low MMR couldn’t get to elegndary by using any of your methods (bunker meta aside). Now, the meta could have carried a lot MMR player to legendary just like reapers and the system are carrying some this season. Now, if I may inquire about those S1 legendary players , where are they now?? Haven’t they all reached legendary by now? (Maybe mot as fast ad they wanted) Just curious.
And if you can show me how a LOW MMR player could have got to carried to legendary by the system (not the meta) last season. Since you are so hell bent on the idea that lots of them did.
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Ywour welcome
/15char
You don’t lose a pip:
- if the player dc for more than 2 min’s
- if you were not in the party with the dc er
So, we’re you in a party with that person?
Warriors have plenty of Stability, but removing blind would be overpowered. you can always make the argument that allowing us to ignore movement impeding conditions is totally like getting more stability. Also by allowing us to stick to an opponent better with leaps you also make it easier for us to deal with blind because we’ll hit more when we are not blinded.
What are you comparing our stab to?? Scrapper, revs ?? Or DH??( their unlockable profession skill)
So which MM algorithm did S1 use? MMR vs MMR ? If yes then only one pip was awarded per wins and few were those who gained 2 or 3 pip for losing or winning.
And my understanding of the extra pip is when one of the player on your team was a pro or whatever. But most people would agree it was MMR vs MMR; knowing how glicko 2 works, I can say with 95% certainty that less than 1% of the player base gained more than 10 pip total (extra from win and 5hose for loss) last season.
Finally, I am not disputing the growth because once there is a possibility anything can happen. What I am disputing is YOUR ASSEMENT THAT LOW MMR PLAYERS used method 1 and 2 to get to legendary, and I have pretty much explained why ( bunker meta aside.)
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people keep saying condi cleanse can avoid 100% of the dmg, but i wonder are we playing the same game? assuming you have perfect connection, a quad core 2.4ghz nervous system that allows you an immediate reaction, you still have to count the cast time, plus the time of a skill you was using if it stuck you in animation or it queues on it. So no matter how fast reaction you have, before a cleanse you will get at least one thick.
Also many condi lovers cant understand it, but by cleansing i’m loosing fight time due to the cast time of the cleanse skill i’m using, meaning i wont be offensive while cleansing. Instead, against power there’s just a stat doing everything for you, in fact you don’t have to lose any cast time or even change your utility/trait build, cuz a single stat is already countering power/precision/ferocity.
This is my last post on condi hate, cuz i feel like i’m talking to kids who don’t want to understand.
For those who think power revenant has good survivability, go watch my video on youtube, i can kill any revenant with just necro scepter autoattack. So even the “best” power dps build is easily outplayed by condi dps.Oh also STOP saying that condi have to applied by an ability, cuz in fact you have so many skill/aoe/traits/procs/runes applying condi that it doesnt matter if you fail to hit once-twice, you will get that condi load no matter what. It’s like if a warrior could spam eviscerate repeatedly, doesnt matter if you fail once.
Also the difference is that even with 0 power, every condi application skill can still do higher power dmg than the condi dmg resulting from the same skill used with berserker amulet.
I played condi, i immediately stopped cuz i found it so hilarious braindeath that i thought that even pokemon was more hardcore than playing condi in gw2.
This pretty much
And about folks who climbed to legendary by playing against other MMR players, I am having trouble believing this. Simply because, last season you had to have at 55 60 % winrate to progress. So by the time, the " low MMR player" get to diamond, his MMR would pretty much be stable and within range of other diamond players. So how is possible for someone with kitten to 60% winrate to keep on facing low MMR players?
Also if I may, last season pro players complained about have low MMR on their team, so my semblance of S1 MMR is 3 2 3 2 1 vs 4 1 1 4 2. Still, I acknowledge that low MMR vs Low MMR happen but the trend stopped in diamond. Because you don’t get to win 30 games ( amount of games needed to get to diamond) without it affect your MMR by at least ( 30*30 = 900 pts). Granted you can win one and lose another, in the end you still needed ( in s1) a total of 30 wins (net value) to progress. Conceptually, IA ma struggling with your assertion of low MMR legendary.
There’s a few really easy ways low MMR players could reach legendary in Season 1 without ever playing high-MMR players:
Method 1: If you start with low MMR, just winning/losing at about a 50% ratio would slowly get you to legendary without raising your MMR. This is because you could gain pips from losing to a team with higher MMR. In fact, it was possible to reach legendary with less than a 50% win ratio for this reason.
Method 2: Even if you somehow started with an inflated MMR, you could tank it at a safe zone (i.e. area where there are no pip losses) by losing repeatedly. Then climb to the next safe zone courtesy of getting easy games due to your now-low MMR. Then tank again from losing repeatedly.
And even if you were queued into games with proleague players (due to low population numbers), your low MMR would put them onto your team. That’s what we mean by getting to legendary in Season 1 without having to face high-MMR players. The only time you’d ever have to face a high-MMR player in Season 1 is if you queued at an off-hour.
I agree with you both method however I disagree with your assertion that low MMR players were the ones reaping the benefits of the system( that’s is exploiting it to get to leendary.) The way I see it, average and high tier player were the ones who exploited it not a low MMR player. And here is why:
First let me start by making the following assumption
-As it stand, the lowest rating is 100 . The default 1500 and the highest 5000. OK let’s assume that most players are around the default rating; and with 350 being the maximal deviation. Most average players are between 1150 – 1850 and anyone who is below 1150 is a low MMR player and one above 1850 is a high MMR player.
-Second point, the S1 meta aside, let’s look at the player potential in their respective MMR zone; and for the sake of time, I’ll mainly focus on low MMR players.
A low MMR player is most likely learning the game, still learning his rotation, have a basic knowledge of who does what, still learning his counters .etc… my point being he knows he can’t carry( the whole notion o carrying in 5 vs 5 game is absurd but it does happen) a game.
-finally, I want to put it out there, MMR != SKILL, However most high MMR players are skilled, likewise most Low MMR players are unskilled.
And wit out more ado,
Method 1 : in short, you are saying you could get to leendary (even with a 50% winrate) simply because you can gain pip by losing. True, but out of those 30 pip how many were gained by losing, since you said the player has a 50% winrate until ruby. OK, let’s assume that the player MMR upon crossing to ruby is (100 + 1150/2 = 625). The only way this player would keep on facing low MMR player in diamond is if 50 % of his 30 pips( Net) needed to advanced came from losing that’s is ( 15 × 30 = 450 .. Player Rating in diamond = 625 + 450 = 1075 which is still low) and that’s quite hard to accomplish ( that’s is progressing by losing ) or if like you said (method 2) upon getting to diamond the Low MMR player with a now Average MMR ( since gaining 15 pip by losing is almost impossible) tanked his MMR again.
Based on the assumptions above, a Low MMR player confidence is not high enough that he would be willing to lose a few games in hope of getting easier matches or winning the next one. Why because he is still learning the game, etc… he has close to zero carry potential (meta bunker aside; using carry for the sake of argument). But you see where I am going, to throw games( tank your MMR) you have to be sure/certain that you can carry the next one. Most low MMR players just don’t have that mindset.
It seems as if average or high MMR players were the one who got to legendary by first lowering their MMR to avoid facing their peers; because they knew they would win their next game.
I can see how it can happen, but it’s synonymous to gambling your house to a low MMR players because you he can’t garantee the outcome of his game. All this assuming that the system only did 1 1 1 1 1 vs 1111 or 5 5 5 5 5 vs 5 5 5 5 5; because my anecdotal S1 experience differs from that as I had a mix of players( went up against pro players in ruby and had some in my team last season or simply 3 2 2 4 1 vs 4 1 1 4 2).
Conclusion: it’s highly unlikely, for a low MMR player ( low MMR player advancing by losing or tanking his MMR even though he can’t garantee his next win) to luck ride his way to.legendary with the S1 MM algorithm, bunker meta aside.
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Lol he has been playing too much Revenants. Doesn’t fit the warrior style though.
Maybe a leap that grant stab or leap that removed blind ?
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I like the defy pain change..
Great story, go tell that to riot; also ask them why everyone of their new champ is OP and not just a different flavor of the month.
As a warrior main, I am praying for Anet to tone down elite specs/ stab. But this is the real world, dignity doesnt pay your son tuition, same reason why i would never belittle a drug dealer for selling drugs. ( even though I have an antipathy for them).
I hope Anet will tone down elite specs, however because I undertsand how marketing/ business operate. I am not sweating over it.
I personally would rather see a slightly modified (smarter) S2 system with the following changes:
- Increase RD (rating deviation) slightly for purposes of forming a team —* This gives “average” players a higher chance to team with “above average” players, or “below average” a higher chance to team with “average.” So having a high MMR is less a guarantee of victory, and a low MMR less a guarantee of loss.
- Tie MMR loss to Pip Loss —* The only regular complaint I see with S2 is about people claiming that they’ve fallen into “MMR hell”. This only happens if you’re constantly losing games (so losing MMR) without losing pips (so not dropping down and playing with worse players). This could easily be resolved by adjusting the system so that you only lose MMR when you lose a pip. In other words, if you are 0 pips into Ruby, further losses won’t decrease your MMR. Voila, no more MMR hell.
- Smarter MMR system —* The amount of MMR you gain/lose after a game should be affected by the final score. For example, the MMR impact for a 50-500 loss vs an equal-MMR team should be greater than the impact if you lost by only 495-500 to that same team. And the system could even increase your MMR if you had a close loss vs a much stronger team. This may incentivize players to try harder even when they think the loss is inevitable. (This ties in with the next suggestion)
- More transparent MMRs* — Let players see their personal MMR. Also, display the average MMRs of each team after a game. This way, players can track their own growth (or regression), and also better understand how their games were lined up. This would be particularly helpful for players who incorrectly feel like they’re stuck in MMR Hell. (For example, several of the MMR Hell gameplay vids that have been posted show that the poster was actually on the stronger team, but the poster simply lacked the awareness to realize it).
I’ve seen, even suggested myself many of these tweaks to matchmaking, and the end result would be the same.
I think the Season1 matchmaker was nearly spot on, besides the high rating deviation between players on each team, as long as that could get tweaked, bring it on. In my personal opinion, nearly all the problems with Season1 stem from the league system itself, not the matchmaker.
A tight grouping or small rating deviation inside a team is a great thing, unless of course you are up against other tightly grouped teams of random skill levels. I’m not fussed whether the rating deviation is relaxed in the way you suggested, or the same result in any other way.
S1 allowed low MMR players to reach legendary by beating low MMR teams. They achieved the division without having to face high MMR players.
That’s my sense as well. If you only care about even, challenging matches, then S1’s system was good. But in S1, league placement had absolutely 0 correlation with skill. In fact, it was easier for bad players to climb because they’d get teamed up with very good players.
In S2, league placement still isn’t a great indicator of skill, but there’s at least some correlation. And many of the flaws can be fixed.
I disagree, the corrolation was greater or if not better last season. Why? How do you explain the fact that most S1 diamond got to legendary this season? True they might have improved, but ask anyone S1 legendary, it will tell you their game quality are worse. If that’s not an indication of the skill level of most players on legendary then idk what is.
And about folks who climbed to legendary by playing against other MMR players, I am having trouble believing this. Simply because, last season you had to have at 55 60 % winrate to progress. So by the time, the " low MMR player" get to diamond, his MMR would pretty much be stable and within range of other diamond players. So how is possible for someone with kitten to 60% winrate to keep on facing low MMR players?
Also if I may, last season pro players complained about have low MMR on their team, so my semblance of S1 MMR is 3 2 3 2 1 vs 4 1 1 4 2. Still, I acknowledge that low MMR vs Low MMR happen but the trend stopped in diamond. Because you don’t get to win 30 games ( amount of games needed to get to diamond) without it affect your MMR by at least ( 30*30 = 900 pts). Granted you can win one and lose another, in the end you still needed ( in s1) a total of 30 wins (net value) to progress. Conceptually, IA ma struggling with your assertion of low MMR legendary.
And also, most folks got carried to legendary last season ( pro players included) by using GOD DRUIDS, TANKIESTEST ELE or bunker mesmer. And let’s not forget that those classes carry potential were better than S2 reaper’s. Now are we going to blame this on the meta or the algorithm?
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Nah, slightly modified in the wrong way?? Just give people MMR vs MMR or pip vs pip range. That’s what lol, data or Smite or CS:GO uses. So what aren’t we doing that?? Even the Glicko 2 excel add on won’t let me match a 1000 vs a 3000 chess player.
Start with the basic MMR vs MMR (within 2 tier) or pip vs pip( this one is risky though) and go from there.
It seems to me that most of the frustration, complaining, horror stories and quitting all comes back to the same thing, pip loss.
This system of losing progress on something you’ve worked hard for is not present in any other area of the game, and is hurting PvP. I propose that pip loss be removed from the tracks up until diamond. Currently the different tiers have no bearing on skill at all and are just leading to endless frustration. Make the tiers a secondary reward structure that only advances upon wins, but does not lose anything on losses.
This will instantly solve many of the complaints and frustrations that players have.
Once you reach diamond tier the system can resume how it currently is and still allow for the competition and extra advancement. Matchmaking will return to being based on MMR alone and not mixed in with the various tiers.
There is already a system in place for this: unranked. If someone is frustrated at losing pips, they are free to play unranked, where they can’t lose any.
This is condescending, because you willfully ignoring the fact that the OP is proposing this because he want his legendary backpiece as soon as possible.
Fyi: the OP mainly pve in case you didn’t check his history.
Not after this mess of a season we had, either give people placement, or reset the MMR. There has to be an MMR reset, or placement. And the placement should be based on emerald tier, if you win all of your placement games = last tier of emerald, if you lose one or two = fourth tier of emerald and …
Needless to say, the MMR algorithm needs to be changed.
Fivedawgs.4267, I fail to understand your reasoning. My complaint is that the league is too short (I belive you meant long) aking the way it works now into account. The way it works is that you are being rewarded for lucky streaks and NOT being punished for loss streaks. Simple math will show you that you need below 50% win ratio to progress and combined with the number of pips you need to reach the final division that does not equal many games to even the least active players. That results in people from ALL kinds of skill ranges progressing where they don’t belong which means more and more awful games. And no prestige doesn’t work either, because the system doesn’t even take it into account when matching players. (eg. a prestige 1 person can get matches with/versus a prestige 100 person)
Raek.8504, that’s somewhat the idea. What’s the point of legendary if anyone and his mother can reach it and the skill range of that division is enormous? It becomes devalued and better players are forced to play with worse players – vice versa. I want to able to see a player’s badge and say “hmm this guy is X division, he must be pretty good”. That’s not the case sadly.
Trust me I understand your argument, hence why my first post was more or less about the MMR algorithm. And yes, I have said it before, with the CURRENT MMR we will end up with more legendary because having a high MMR = 90% garantee progression. And I said it before, legendary ×4 would look like the new legendary, legendary x3 like diamond , legendary X2 like ruby. I said what you said above, a week into the season. So, it was bound to happen.
So, I know the problems, however shortening the season wont help because those issues are caused by the current MMR algorithm not the length of the season. Even if the season was 3 month long and that duo Q was disabled, some streamers wouldn’t reach legendary in that time period, with a competitve ladder.
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the longer the season (and the bigger the amount of games played), the more accurate the system gets.
That would be true if there were more divisions, 6 divisions with safety nets is WAY to easy to grind through. You might belong to ruby and grind two months playing 10 games a day. Someone’s bound to get a lucky streak and reach the next safety net.
To the people not wanting to return to unranked the solution is simple. Make more divisions or more frequent seasons. (or remove the safety nets but then casuals will complain forever)
In a competitve system, you can’t go from A to be B by playing ten games daily unless you disn’t belong in A or B. It takes years for new players/experienced players to get out of bronze/silver or gold respectively because of the competitive nature of their league (I. E. 50 vs 50). And also, there are prestige for that reason ×1 ×2 ×3 ×4 for those of you who are bored or want to progress further than legendary ×0/1.
No, the division should be longer. Returning to unrank has never been an issue for me, like someone stated above, some folks have jobs, family, etc… they need more time to get where “they belong” as you guys call it. This season hasn’t been thrilling to most player I know BECAUSE IT’S UNCOMPETITIVE, I. E ask java the next time you ll see him in game. Noone durst to advance your idea last season for a reason. Because games were close, people were enjoying/competing in their games, the current system is so random that you could be competiting ( 5 vs 5) or getting stomped ( 1 vs 10) or get lucky ( 10 vs 1). Based on your post, I infer you are experiencing a combination of the former and/or mostly the latter.
Fyi: you can always make a f2p account or wait for season 3. My point, the season have to be LONGER.
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No that’s not the problem, the problem is X vs X. People want to earn their ranks, u mean you get a sense of pride out of it. Most people are complaining about the randomness of the system.
It’s quite the opposite. The longer the season, the longer the time you have to be placed where you really belong to because you can play enough games for the system gather more data and place you in the right place. Many people can’t play all day every single day, so the longer the season, more time for the person to be able to play enough matches do place where the truly belongs. And people actually can improve as they play, so if they didn’t start playing PvP being a player worth of a diamond, for example, with more matches he can actually improve his skill and also improve his placement.
The problem only comes in the GW2 system, where there’s a bunch of safety nets for pips. But in any MMR system, the longer the season (and the bigger the amount of games played), the more accurate the system gets.
This pretty much.
Lol this one is funny, it was bound to hppen with this matchmaking. I mean leet0 made it to legebdary in 22 hours. So what were you expecting?? “Easy come, easy go”. Your post is proof that this season has failed.
The season have to be longer not shorter.
Been saying it since beta tbh. Elites are OVERTUNED for the sake of sales. They don’t care that people leave game later because game is so broken and very boring due to low amount of builds available (the elites are pretty much shoved down your throat and even if you go hipster and play core spec you will be forced to reroll elite eventually since elites from other classes are just stupidly broken).
Well that may have been the case but they did change game directors recently, so maybe they will also change their stance on the mater too? I mean if you make something op for the sake of sales there is no reason (it is even bad for the game) to keep it broken for a long time after the initial release (even when games like league release a new champion and make it op to drive sales they eventually nerf it down to normal).
After all people have done a 5 man vale guardian kill and a no updraft gorseval kill both of those before the enrage timers ticked to 0, so the raids will not suddenly become impossible to complete unless you play gw without a mouse or something.Your average pve Joe is mouse clicker and keyboard turner.
The pugs still can’t kill VG lol.
Ofc there is no reason to keep elites overtuned after sales but why waste money on massive overhaul of elites for balance sake? They got money from HoT, all they need to do now is to add some LS stuff to keep pve’ers happy and gemstore crap for extra moneys.
This pretty much, some elites being stronger than some core specs is a marketing necessity. And ANet is a company, and I won’t ridicule them for trying to make money. That’s just the truth of the matter, what they need to do is revert the necros buff and tone down the skill spams or stab pulse, or you name it.
Needless to say, us warrior are still waiting for our buff!!
It wouldn’t be easy to get it right, but how would you do it otherwise? How else will would you promote individual players out of lower tiers in the short period a season lasts?
So the goal is to give additional pips to individual players based on merit, but I’m not convinced that is necessary to having a skill based league system. It might even create problems, like division getting way too high for their skill, via boosted rewards for beating on minionmancers & eles all game and accomplishing nothing.
I have a rather simple proposal to change the matchmaker so this problem doesn’t happen in the first place, and that’s simply ship a priority change of how MMR grouping works.
In any pip range we have a variety of MMRs, let’s group them into 3 camps – below average, average, and above average.
Right now, from my understanding of the matchmaker, we’ll have a team of 5 taken from the below average camp and randomly faced off against a team from the below average, average, or above average camp.
When ArenaNet heard our desires of having teammates relatively close to us in skill, this MMR grouping was absolutely NOT what we wanted, if I can be so bold as to speak for the general population.
The matchmaking in season1 was good in the way that it had high quality, close matches. A big problem (excluding other problems) is that it did whatever it took to even the team MMRs, including adding players who didn’t belong there, to handicap, or boost the team MMR. This was disruptive.
What I propose is a combination of S1 and S2 matchmaking, where matchmaking still determines your matchups based on pip range, like it does now, to stay in line of ‘perserving prestige’ in divisions.
The main difference would be instead of finding two very different groups of 5 alike MMR people, and having a potentially imbalanced match, try to find the 10 most similarly rated players in MMR within the pip range, rank them #1-10 based on MMR, and have even vs. odds. With an expanding PIP range, and variation in MMRs accepted as the queue goes on.
In a 5v5 with the 10 most similarly rated players, there won’t be as big a need to promote certain players over others, as it’ll be much harder for you to become underrated in MMR by the system.
I could even TLDR; and say bring back the matchmaker from the era of old Leaderboards & Solo queue days. At both extremes of skill, the best players had 70% winrate, and the worst players had about a 45% winrate. Right now I’d ballpark the two extremes at a respective 85% and 20% winrate.
With the league infrastructure we have now, and a few more tweaks, we can have a pretty awesome casual PvP league. The problem was that after we invented the wheel, we invented and used a square wheel with points/grind based leaderboards, and then a triangular wheel – In S1, getting high divisions without fighting tough enemies – and now we’re using a rectangular wheel in S2 – grouped up based on MMR and face different MMR groups!
I’m a bit weary of all the crazy matchmaker/ladder fads we’ve tested. I’m happy we added the league system which was a huge step forward, but we just need to get a normal and ordinary matchmaker to complement it like we had before.
+1 …
Lol, just wanted to touch on the Glicko thing. I don’t have the data with me, but you are MMR can change by at least 25 point against a pro team. So I don’t know where you guys are getting it doesn’t change by a lot. So if you lost 10 games in row, that’s paramount to a 250 pts loss in MMR and fyi: the default MMR is 1500 the max is 5000.
25 point loss is nothing. Please read:
http://www.glicko.net/glicko/glicko2.pdf
Check the legend time queue thread, I have already went over it.
Ok time to stop arguing over nothing, random had two issue with the system and tried to bring up questionable facts to support his claims ( winning after loss streak, misunderstanding of the Glicko algorithm ,disregarding the X vs X and focusing more on mistake, etc..) but his points were valid, even though I disagreed with him, since I belive the personal score ( which I think should be removed ) and the players stats/ the number of combo performed by the player can pretty much tell she’d a light on the player performance. But he had a valid point.4 and the OP said the current system didn’t have those tools and we hope the next one would.
So back on topic guys…
@Fivedawgs, When you worded it ‘a loss by the X pro team’ I thought you meant a loss caused by them, now I see you were talking about their own losses.
You’re suggesting that even pro matches you can pick apart the decisions that ended up causing a loss, and that means that people who claim to be in MMR hell have a justification to moan even if they’re making (terrible) decisions that throw the game, too.
Not better..
Ok if that’s what I meant, then allow me guys to disagree with myself. If anyone is losing games because of hi mistake, please take some time to improve your skills/ or whatever is causing the loss. However. If you ( as a playerr) are complaining about X vs X, you have every right to do so.
(edited by Fivedawgs.4267)
As for glicko, you can’t deny winstreaks and lsoing streaks are common, this isn’t some sort of conspiracy.
Yes and I have had large losing streaks followed by large win streaks multiple times this season. According to your logic, this is impossible because my MMR would be so screwed by the losing streak that I couldn’t possibly get a win streak right after.
Try something out – go find a random number generator and generate random numbers between 0 and 1 and look at the large streaks that you can get just from randomness. Must be conspiracy right?
Except this isn’t a case of 1s and 0s.
You can look at recurring teammates with and against you, same people for many games on end that very rarely swap to your side or vice versa, you can look at score disparity in these streaks are rare anywhere near 250 to 500.
Comparing apples to donkeys really is pointless.
Except that it’s mostly a mentality problem. Every single video that has been posted on the forums claiming “mmr hell” had been completely shot down as a winnable game if the poster had actually put a reasonable level of thought into it. Show me a video pf 3 consecutive games that you lost and were unwinnable (afks and dcs don’t count because the system can’t predict these).
Let me just cut you there, I can show you any video of a loss by the abjured or any other pro Esl team, you know what?? We will find a mistake. True afker and dcer don’t count, what count is the you could be facing 1 vs 10 or 5 vs 5 or 10 vs 1.
So folks who are crying about MMR hell have every right to do so.I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make here. Are you saying that every team makes game-changing mistakes? Because then you’re agreeing with me that most of the games are winnable. Or are you trying to compare esl matches that have nothing to do with matchmaking?
Far from it, my point being if mistakes are what you’re looking for; you will find them.
And in soloq where voice communication doesn’t exist and people don’t know each other, mistakes are far more likely to happen.
Anyway, my original point was that everyone who has posted a video on the forums relating to MMR hell has been shown that the match was winnable if they made better rotational decisions. If they can’t make these decisions, then they don’t belong in higher divisions and the system is working as intended.
True (first bol statement) still ( the rest of your post can be gainsaid with) 1 vs 10 or 10 vs 1, remeber 5 vs 5 do happen.
Let me just cut you there, I can show you any video of a loss by the abjured or any other pro Esl team, you know what?? We will find a mistake. True afker and dcer don’t count, what count is the you could be facing 1 vs 10 or 5 vs 5 or 10 vs 1.
So folks who are crying about MMR hell have every right to do so.Folks who are crying about MMR hell have every right to do so because of losses to pro ESL teams that they were helpless against?
You’ve kind of discredited yourself forever on the subject, in my personal view. I question if full roster pro teams on NA have even once queued casual league play in Season2. Let alone it’d take farming day and night, and hax to never leave the pip range of the person who’s MMR got tanked by pro teamz.
Anyone with general understanding of the league system knows that MMR hell is probably the last thing to associate with even solo queued top40 players.
Nope, that’s not what I said/ meant ( don’t want to scroll up to check). They have very right to do so because of X vs X.
I mentioned the Abjured ( season 1 finals game 2) because everyone is prone to make them. I belive random point was, based on the vids he has seen, those loss games could have been avoided, if A did this or B did that.
Everyone makes mistakes in every division, that’s not what is being discussed. In the videos that were provided, it was the repeated mistakes and gameplay that enforced the opinion that the players were where the should be.
That’s what being discussed here, bease those mistake affect the whole team regardless of who make them.
(edited by Fivedawgs.4267)
Let me just cut you there, I can show you any video of a loss by the abjured or any other pro Esl team, you know what?? We will find a mistake. True afker and dcer don’t count, what count is the you could be facing 1 vs 10 or 5 vs 5 or 10 vs 1.
So folks who are crying about MMR hell have every right to do so.Folks who are crying about MMR hell have every right to do so because of losses to pro ESL teams that they were helpless against?
You’ve kind of discredited yourself forever on the subject, in my personal view. I question if full roster pro teams on NA have even once queued casual league play in Season2. Let alone it’d take farming day and night, and hax to never leave the pip range of the person who’s MMR got tanked by pro teamz.
Anyone with general understanding of the league system knows that MMR hell is probably the last thing to associate with even solo queued top40 players.
Nope, that’s not what I said/ meant ( don’t want to scroll up to check). They have very right to do so because of X vs X.
I mentioned the Abjured ( season 1 finals game 2) because everyone is prone to make them. I belive random point was, based on the vids he has seen, those loss games could have been avoided, if A did this or B did that.
As for glicko, you can’t deny winstreaks and lsoing streaks are common, this isn’t some sort of conspiracy.
Yes and I have had large losing streaks followed by large win streaks multiple times this season. According to your logic, this is impossible because my MMR would be so screwed by the losing streak that I couldn’t possibly get a win streak right after.
Try something out – go find a random number generator and generate random numbers between 0 and 1 and look at the large streaks that you can get just from randomness. Must be conspiracy right?
Except this isn’t a case of 1s and 0s.
You can look at recurring teammates with and against you, same people for many games on end that very rarely swap to your side or vice versa, you can look at score disparity in these streaks are rare anywhere near 250 to 500.
Comparing apples to donkeys really is pointless.
Except that it’s mostly a mentality problem. Every single video that has been posted on the forums claiming “mmr hell” had been completely shot down as a winnable game if the poster had actually put a reasonable level of thought into it. Show me a video pf 3 consecutive games that you lost and were unwinnable (afks and dcs don’t count because the system can’t predict these).
Let me just cut you there, I can show you any video of a loss by the abjured or any other pro Esl team, you know what?? We will find a mistake. True afker and dcer don’t count, what count is the you could be facing 1 vs 10 or 5 vs 5 or 10 vs 1.
So folks who are crying about MMR hell have every right to do so.
(edited by Fivedawgs.4267)
As for glicko, you can’t deny winstreaks and lsoing streaks are common, this isn’t some sort of conspiracy.
Yes and I have had large losing streaks followed by large win streaks multiple times this season. According to your logic, this is impossible because my MMR would be so screwed by the losing streak that I couldn’t possibly get a win streak right after.
Try something out – go find a random number generator and generate random numbers between 0 and 1 and look at the large streaks that you can get just from randomness. Must be conspiracy right?
Except this isn’t a case of 1s and 0s.
You can look at recurring teammates with and against you, same people for many games on end that very rarely swap to your side or vice versa, you can look at score disparity in these streaks are rare anywhere near 250 to 500.
Comparing apples to donkeys really is pointless.
Except that it’s mostly a mentality problem. Every single video that has been posted on the forums claiming “mmr hell” had been completely shot down as a winnable game if the poster had actually put a reasonable level of thought into it. Show me a video pf 3 consecutive games that you lost and were unwinnable (afks and dcs don’t count because the system can’t predict these).
Let me just cut you there, I can show you any video of a loss by the abjured or any other pro Esl team, you know what?? We will find a mistake. True afker and dcer don’t count, what count is the you could be facing 1 vs 10 or 5 vs 5 or 10 vs 1.
So folks who are crying about MMR hell have every right to do so.I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make here. Are you saying that every team makes game-changing mistakes? Because then you’re agreeing with me that most of the games are winnable. Or are you trying to compare esl matches that have nothing to do with matchmaking?
Far from it, my point being if mistakes are what you’re looking for; you will find them.
As for glicko, you can’t deny winstreaks and lsoing streaks are common, this isn’t some sort of conspiracy.
Yes and I have had large losing streaks followed by large win streaks multiple times this season. According to your logic, this is impossible because my MMR would be so screwed by the losing streak that I couldn’t possibly get a win streak right after.
Try something out – go find a random number generator and generate random numbers between 0 and 1 and look at the large streaks that you can get just from randomness. Must be conspiracy right?
Except this isn’t a case of 1s and 0s.
You can look at recurring teammates with and against you, same people for many games on end that very rarely swap to your side or vice versa, you can look at score disparity in these streaks are rare anywhere near 250 to 500.
Comparing apples to donkeys really is pointless.
Except that it’s mostly a mentality problem. Every single video that has been posted on the forums claiming “mmr hell” had been completely shot down as a winnable game if the poster had actually put a reasonable level of thought into it. Show me a video pf 3 consecutive games that you lost and were unwinnable (afks and dcs don’t count because the system can’t predict these).
Let me just cut you there, I can show you any video of a loss by the abjured or any other pro Esl team, you know what?? We will find a mistake. True afker and dcer don’t count, what count is the you could be facing 1 vs 10 or 5 vs 5 or 10 vs 1.
So folks who are crying about MMR hell have every right to do so.
Funny that guy is actually pushing his anecdotal experience against the facts; lol of course you can win after losing 20 games in row, the facts are it’s X vs X . So you never know what might happen … it’s not like the system was pitting you against High MMR players all the time.
Funny how thousands of experiences over thousands of players disagree with your “facts” that are based on a framework(Glycko) that isn’t fully applicable to matchmaking in GW2 PvP because it of the way matches are formed.
Lol I was talking about the other guy, why is it that you disagree with?? As a matter of fact I was replying to his post, but tell me why are you disagreeing with me? Lol
Funny that guy is actually pushing his anecdotal experience against the facts; lol of course you can win after losing 20 games in row, the facts are it’s X vs X . So you never know what might happen … it’s not like the system was pitting you against High MMR players all the time.
Lol, just wanted to touch on the Glicko thing. I don’t have the data with me, but you are MMR can change by at least 25 point against a pro team. So I don’t know where you guys are getting it doesn’t change by a lot. So if you lost 10 games in row, that’s paramount to a 250 pts loss in MMR and fyi: the default MMR is 1500 the max is 5000.
And also, few are those who have 5k+ ranked games, so the deviation is pretty high for most players.
@Op I won’t say 0 corrolation even though I agree that your A B and C will skew the relationship between div and league.
I agree with with much of what you said. And about number 3; the system has ways to factor that in. Players #stats, their personal score ( I am pretty lenient on this one), and much more… so for a roamer (I. E a thief , the combustion of his personal score and stats can shed a light of the player controbution; same with supp or dps class). Nice thread overall, but if I may I they should bring back class MMR; I am losing lots of games because of achievement chaser. Anet has to fix this.