Guild Wars 2

Yeah, happened to me yesterday; I lost my series the day before because few diamonds players were working on their profession achievement and yesterday it went all south. Needless to say I am back to Tier 4; now as it stand your chances are losing more games are very high, to circumvent the issue:

You either have to setup a team of 5 or 4 or even 3 players or wait maybe a week or something.

The system doesn’t reward you for trying your best ( as in get out of loss streak) instead it punish you for your losses.

ok Tier 6 Ruby, just like last season this is where i am stopping. Got into a messy loss streak, And i undertsand the current sytem doesnt award grinding ) as the more you play, if you have a kittenty winrate, the more you’ll lose) so ill take a break and focus on league {lol} … See ya, ill be back if anything interesting pop up . Otherwise, i am pretty much done.

Lol, only noobs think DH sucks.

Actually rdjudicator and I know, check the legendary queue time thread page 3 and 4. If you are new, you MMR can change by 200 or 320 point max, of you are a vet your between the 20 – 30 range.

Pyriall.1683:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hey everyone,

I wanted to just chime in here and make some things clear as they may not be clear.

The “Year of The Ascension” achievement do not reset/clear between seasons. Whatever progress you have carries over to the next season.

If you can’t/don’t get the legendary if a specific year then there will be another way to obtain that specific backpack. I can’t go into any details on that, but you WILL be able to get previous years backpacks in some way.

We also understand the frustration of players and matchmaking this season and will do our best to make some changes for Season 3.

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

.just to name a few, or would you rather have them explicitly say it?

And just in case :

fault·y
?fôlt?/Submit
adjective
working badly or unreliably because of imperfections.
“a car with faulty brakes”
synonyms: malfunctioning, broken, damaged, defective, not working, out of order; More
(of reasoning and other mental processes) mistaken or misleading because of flaws.
“faulty logic”
synonyms: defective, flawed, unsound, inaccurate, incorrect, erroneous, fallacious, wrong
“her logic is faulty”
having or displaying weaknesses.
“her character was faulty”

I’m not getting what you’re getting from those two quotes. The system, to me, is doing what it is designed to do; however, people are not happy with it. That is where they recognize the “frustration” and “problems”. That has more to do with how people feel about the system.

I disagree evan posted clearly stated problem with the system and I quote again:

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

But you don’t have to agree with us ( Evan, I or the data though ), you are entitled to your opinion.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hey everyone,

I wanted to just chime in here and make some things clear as they may not be clear.

The “Year of The Ascension” achievement do not reset/clear between seasons. Whatever progress you have carries over to the next season.

If you can’t/don’t get the legendary if a specific year then there will be another way to obtain that specific backpack. I can’t go into any details on that, but you WILL be able to get previous years backpacks in some way.

We also understand the frustration of players and matchmaking this season and will do our best to make some changes for Season 3.

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

.just to name a few, or would you rather have them explicitly say it?

And just in case :

fault·y
?fôlt?/Submit
adjective
working badly or unreliably because of imperfections.
“a car with faulty brakes”
synonyms: malfunctioning, broken, damaged, defective, not working, out of order; More
(of reasoning and other mental processes) mistaken or misleading because of flaws.
“faulty logic”
synonyms: defective, flawed, unsound, inaccurate, incorrect, erroneous, fallacious, wrong
“her logic is faulty”
having or displaying weaknesses.
“her character was faulty”

Wierd indeed, the OP has every reason in a world to complain about the MMR, whether it is causing the losses or not. If you have nothing constructive to say, just abstain from posting. It has been acknowledged BY THE DEVS that S2 algorithm is faulty. So unless you were in the same game as OP, you have to either believe him or just kitten.

Exciton.8942:

Here is the real problem:
With the current matchmaking system, the worst players will likely be losing. Those players tend to rather quit than trying to improve so they end up quitting.

This puts the next group of second worst players at the bottom again. They will probably repeat such pattern and also quit.

In the end, a large amount of below-average players will just quit. It is fair? It is in a competitive sense as you get eliminated because not being good enough. But is it really healthy for the game? I don’t know.

Its not, I don3snt take a brain to know it’s not.

Omg was the necro daily yesterday??? Cause I got stomped hard, 3 reaper on every team with boon strip, this explains a lot actually.

Chaith.8256:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Oxidia.8103:

idunno, last night i was able to get 4 tiers in ruby and crossed to diamond in 4 hours of spvp, and gained 1 tier in diamond. i guess it was a lucky day. cca 6 wins per 1 loss.

just put some sweet tunes and rock it.

Nice!! I was one pip away from diamond yesterday then got farmed by 2+ necro for the remainder of the night. Back to T4.

Get rekt n00b, Legend was easy for my superior wits and ESL skills, Kappa

Lmao ahahha .. great argument indeed

One solution: Bring back class MMR?? I mean that’s the only way to fix it. However, because it can be implemented the algorithm need to be changed first.

Oxidia.8103:

idunno, last night i was able to get 4 tiers in ruby and crossed to diamond in 4 hours of spvp, and gained 1 tier in diamond. i guess it was a lucky day. cca 6 wins per 1 loss.

just put some sweet tunes and rock it.

Nice!! I was one pip away from diamond yesterday then got farmed by 2+ necro for the remainder of the night. Back to T4.

EvilWench.8564:

Have to say i’m also feeling very frustrated this season. There was broken matching last season with grouping with a lower tier. But i felt like i made progress, slow but steady. I’m definitely an average player, I feel like i’m getting kicked in the face repeatedly now. I don’t mind loosing games, i don’t mind it taking longer to progress because i’m not ‘great’. But just I just feel like can’t catch a break.

I’m not 100% sure what it is. The class match ups could be better sure.
I think they should bring back not loosing a pip if the match is practically a draw 480/490:500 say. Loose your win streak fine, but loosing a pip is just mean. Gives some incentive to keep trying.

<sigh>

Lost a game by 0 point yesterday. 500 – 500 and my pip was gone, Needless to say it went downhill from there. With a 30% winrate, one loss can hamper your whole day.

Triggered lmao 15charr

This thread is a joke.

First eurantien acknowledged the existence of “mysterious” MMR hell.

Second, Noone is complaining about not getting to legendary ( hey we have more legendary this season than the last one). The issue, at hand, is the MMR algorithm. Here is a tip:

1- leave your personal f3elings/ biases aside and look at the algorithm

2- then ask yourself is this competitve??

BTW what’s more doleful then having pro player ( top 5%) mocks the underlings; with stuff like you are solely response for the outcome of your game ( implying everyone runs GODLY scrapper or Rez bot ranger).

This is a new a low for the community; first Evan now chaith blatantly spewing nonsense. A sight to be revered indeed

Great points, now can you answer this simple question: Why was the season system (shinies/badges/ whatever you want to call it) implemented? And why has Anet switched from a leaderboard to a division system?

If your answer to both is to increase the spvp population then we are in a conundrum otherwise your thread is moot.

Another one /15char.

And yes, the friday sure does help. I actually ahd to queue to get into jade quary borderland!!!1

The borderlands are HYPER active… i guess this is what i have been misisng ??

True condi warr is pretty good this meta, but I want to climb with power, I’ll switch marauder with barbarian when against a full condi team to see how it will work out. And about the endure pain, i blame it on the DH!!!!

Well, aren’t that a kitten?? So you think posting on the FORUMS is worse than getting frustrating over a ducking game ? Is someone wellbeing kitten to you or what?? If I were having the same problem trust me this forum would have being full of MM SUCKS and I kill Anet for fun ( referring to my FF mobile game).

Lol this has got to be a joke,,, How did you get to legendary with this build??? No endure pain, your utilities are really meg; and the carrion / no toughness ?? I thought you were using sage or mercenary… ahha I guess you can call your build a Yolo build. But nj mate, def won’t try this build.

@lighter, like I said before, as the season goes on everyone will end up in legendary. This season is the worse ever.

Well drew you said you had 15 pip as a DH… but grats dude; I guess it pays to think out of the box… will check your build.

PSA : won’t try it if it doesn’t work with a GS!!!

Funny, the Op is having issue with other people conundrum, aren’t that a kitten? So people shouldn’t discuss legit issues on the forum?

SneakyTouchy.6043:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

go ahead and add me, I’m in pvp lobby most of the time

Lol that’s me standing next to you. I thought your name was hilarious because you were complaining.

I don’t know how many times this has to be repeated with the same evidence until people stop asking for proof. The devs explained how the system works and people are still trying to deny it. Dunning Kruger goes both ways.

By the devs?? Who do you mean? The spvp dev tram posted on reddit that they were aware of the problem and already working on a something different ( I supposed) for S3? Which devs are you referring to, post a quote in this thread, and I’ll dumb it down for you.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

So I just hit legendary rank today on my main account, I’ve prob played with a couple of you in diamond. Did it 100% solo q as a dragon hunter from amber to diamond and then necro from diamond to legend.

I have an alt account in which I play the exact same classes/builds as my main. I play on this account occasionally to test builds, *and as such got a loss streak on my alt account of about 15+ at the very beginning of the tournament when I was in amber. *My alt account is now ruby. Whenever I play on my alt account, I hardly win any games at all, mostly because my teammates are so horrible. The more I lose because of my teammates, the lower my MMR goes and the crappier teammates i get.

On my legend account I get good team support and make quite a lot of game saving plays as I am a good player. On my alt account those plays are wasted as team members do stupid things like not fighting on points, engaging in 1v4’s and not raising teammates, or my personal favorite, 1 goes home, 2 go mid and 2 go beast – gg.

This MMR is BS and as a solo q player it doesn’t even remotely reflect the skill level of the individual. When you get trapped in low MMR Hell it is nearly impossible if not impossible to get out of it with solo q. Once your win loss ratio drops below 50% you are screwed, you get afker’s trolls and even people in lower divisions, such as people who are in amber and emerald. the enemy team is of course composed of full rubies.

In addition to this you get everyone that is considered a “bad Player” regardless of skill – trolls who throw matches, afkers, ppl who dont know how to play pvp at all + people with bad internet connections as well as people who don’t even own HOT and are playing vanilla builds

-I don’t know why as a paying customer of HoT that I should be pared with people who don’t even own the expansion pack and cannot even make any of the meta builds or be seriously competitive.

and don’t say form a team as a solution, as forming a team negates MMR and completely takes it out of the equation. I’m doing this to see how MMR works and its abysmal in soloq and needs to be completely reworked.

In addition to this when you get in low MMR you cannot even form a team as nobody wants to join with a player who has low MMR as it might lower theirs or ruin their win streak – Teams ALWAYS ask if you have a win streak or loss streak and they also ask you your win % ratio vs total games played, if they are serious.

For anyone stuck in this scenario you have my sympathies, if you get to around 45% win ratio it completely ruins pvp and makes it unplayable and really NOT fun at all.

Well maybe they will listen to you since you are legendary?? Been there, never don’t that but my teammates did. Funny thing is experienced this from amber to ruby ( now ruby T5). So folks who claim that MMR hell doesn’t exist are either:

- Delusional
- don’t want to look at the data anew

Anyone who undertsand math, who knows that MMR wasn’t resettled last season, who understand the MM algorithm CAN’T SAY that MMR hell doesn’t exist.

I watched the AG last night and the last game Ick vs free agent

Check out this video “[PvP Tournament] AG Weekly #64 – Gem Giveaway – Nos Joining Me” http://www.twitch.tv/gamewithstorm/v/56259806

The Ick DH totally secured both wins, Noone even DURST to go mid after the DH positioned himself. They had to pressure mid to take it back during gane 1. And in game 2 and 3, mooobs ( DH)( aka pro esl player from zero counterplay) just gave it his best.I wonder if a thief would have had the same impact on the game. . Uhm

Fun fact; in game 1, mooobs only died once.

Shylock.4653:

Fivedawgs.4267:

the facts are, and organized t3am has a 90% chance of winning against full pugs.

90% ah OK. I’m sure you have some proof for this because according to anet the win rate of five solo players is above 50% against five-person premades.

Only 1% of all Ranked matches played in season one were a full five-person premade group vs. a group of five solo players, and even then, the win rate for those five solo player teams in those cases was consistently at or above 50% throughout the entire season.

Source:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pvp-league-season-two-changes

But why are u using S1 data?? I was talking about this one.

Teutos.8620:

Fivedawgs.4267:

I am pretty sure you know what he meant, the facts are, and organized t3am has a 90% chance of winning against full pugs. And also, although individual performance does count; your team has more weight on the outcome of a game. So, you could be the best player ever however if your team keeps on messing up( not holding caps, list goes on) you d end up losing.

Again, you are throwing a lot of stuff together and not providing any sustainable information to discuss here anything in detail. I can just speculate which situation you mean.

An organized team has an advantage, yes, in the old system, the therefore got their MMR adjusted. In the old system I won against full premades (including CC) and lost against them.
In the new system, forming a premade can have advantages but also disadvantages. E.g. If you are a top player and invite other top players, at the start of the season, you will basically win every match, because most of the time, you are facing less skilled opponents, but then again, if you would not have had a premade, you would just have gotten at random other good players and still farmed less skilled players…

How big is the influence of a single player for this team? Without knowing how good his own teammates are, how big the skill difference is to the opponent team, we don’t know. You can’t “carry” every team. There are games, which are sooo close, that you could have won, if just a single mistake would not have been made (ofc the mistake is not the reason, it got so close, nor might this situation have been the only thing that went wrong).
BUT, you can say, that after a few dozen of games, if instead of you, another player would have participated, a lot of those game would have ended up differently.

I agree, hence why MMR measure your/team ability to win a game. In the current system, you can’t say that MMR is a good metric. I.e A diamond and an amber player who ended up with a 500 MMR last season, at the onset of S2 who do you think the system is going to match this diamond player with? The amber player right, now imagine this, 4 amber + 1 diamond from last season vs 5 diamond from last season; and because everyone start in amber, this player is pretty much garanteed to lose 80% of his games due to the S2 algorithm. Now tell me is how big is the influence of this diamond player in amber?

I agree with games being close now; However two weeks prior games were far from close… AND about your last paragraph, during the first week of the season, this diamond players could have lost all of his games. Now are you going to blame all.of those losses on the diamond players or an his teammates (4 ambers) or on the MM algorithm?

Hit tier 5 ruby yesterday … ill keep on pushing

I am pretty sure you know what he meant, the facts are, and organized t3am has a 90% chance of winning against full pugs. And also, although individual performance does count; your team has more weight on the outcome of a game. So, you could be the best player ever however if your team keeps on messing up( not holding caps, list goes on) you d end up losing.

The diamond player got his 500 MMR last season, plz stay on track.

I agree OP. Especially this :

“ A new player in PvP can have the same count in matches, the same position in the league and the same MMR like a pro player, who’s playing on an alt account. But they have completely different experience in playing PvP.”

Funny thing is when you ask these people if a diamond player with a 500 MMR is as skilled as an amber player with same MMR. Noone answer; and yet they still claim that (the MMR is intelligent enough to measure a player skill) and to extent it’s true. What we needed this season was an MMR reset. I guess Anet thought otherwise.

Maybe cause last season was more competitive? On this one progression is pretty much garantee depending on which side of the MMR you end up on. High vs Low or low vs high or 5 vs 5. Trust me, we will get more legendary this season than we had in S1. Higher MMR = progression in S2.

Ensign.2189:

I’ve messed around with some toy models of the rating systems of the past seasons and have one that I think passes the smell test; I’ve attached some output for this season below. I can’t realistically reproduce the match-ups that come out of the matchmaker – there are big differences in how much people play that is hard to account for – so I just pick a player at random from the population, match him with a team according to the matchmaking rules, then pick out an opposing team from the remaining population at random.

The upshot of that is that the number of matches each player participates in is random and normally distributed, which lacks the skew of the real population but I think represents what the full time players experience pretty well.

A player’s ‘true’ skill is assumed to be fixed and unknown to the matchmaker and MMR algorithm (but is used to determine actual outcomes); MMR thus bounces around randomly as players win and lose. In the attached data set I began the season with really, incredibly terrible ratings accuracy (correlation coefficient between true skill and MMR = 0.544) but after the ~200 games per player in the model ratings line up really well with underlying skill (cor = 0.944).

The big takeaways, according to this toy model:

- Players pinned to the bottom of ruby are generally below average players – the median 0 pip ruby player is in roughly the 30th percentile of player skill in this simulation.

- There really isn’t any sort of Elo-hell. The premise of the original post doesn’t fit any sort of model I’ve looked at – if you’ve reaching ruby, your MMR cannot possibly be that bad, and will have recovered significantly from even pretty ridiculous initial conditions.

- The new matchmaking does exaggerate MMR. That is, above average players will have a higher rating than their ‘true’ rating, while below average players have a lower rating than their ‘true’ rating. I’m not 100% sure about what’s driving that effect, though I’m pretty sure it has to do with team formation.

If you have some specific circumstance you want me to model, let me know and I can plug it in – I’m only avoiding running a specific sim of the original post’s questions because they don’t make a lot of sense to me (show me that someone in low ruby with a terrible MMR will eventually have their MMR recover…while staying in low ruby?)

(I’d attach raw data or code fragments, but there’s a file type restriction in place – preferences on where to host a .Rdata dump?)

Nice work but you do know that correlation doesn’t mean causation, right?? Because that’s what I am getting from your post. Here are a few things, you should add to your model.

- How is the meta impacting your data? (I.e. class imbalance and what not)
- New players started with higher MMR than folks who tried to cripple their way to legendary/diamond.
-What are your independent and dependent variables?

Yup it was patched, so not a bug.

You lost because you weren’t in a pre made with the lord Seth Kappa

Lots of threads were made on the subject, Anet pvp team, not Evan Lesh, said they gathered some data and will adjust a few setting for the upcoming season. So we should et a preview at the end of the season; also I don’t think they are going to patch/fix it prior the finals or the end of the season.

And here is reply from another top player NA in the mesmer thread.

Eurantien.4632:

verskore.4312:

Ananeos.4587:

verskore.4312:

the answer is simple, you do not stand a single chance in a 1v1 against a condi mesmer, not a SINGLE chance. No matter what class you play (unless you play condi mesmer yourself), you will lose to one that is decent. the amount of survivability and constant conditions that they can apply is ridiculous and soon enough your condicleanse will be on cooldown and then you’ll melt. This isn’t even taking into account the ridiculous OP skill moamorph which is basically a 8 second daze (which he can cast twice in a row if he’d want to).

In other words, if you see a condi mesmer on a point, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!

This is ignorance at its finest, do not listen to this person.

nono, it’s not ignorance, it’s having a sense of reality. Condi mesmer is by far best 1v1 out there right now and if you enter a 1v1 with an equally skilled mesmer (or even a little worse) then you will most likely lose and you’ll get your team outnumbered. Best to do is go back to the teamfight, wipe them and 2v1 the mesmer or get the other point and simply ignore him should he be so stupid to bunker a point. You’re the ignorant one for not seeing that.

They can lose 1 v 1. I’ve seen the best Mesmers in North America lose to necros, druids, and dragon hunters. As a conclusion your post must be none other than ignorance. This is a learn to play issue. Is Condi Mesmer very strong 1 v 1? Yes. Is it unbeatable? No.

Well, lol, I don’t know why anyone would choose a thief , which according to zoose is bad vs everything, over a DH.

Well and I disagree as long as there is a mesmer in the meta, people will gravitate towards DH. And I pretty much explained why and how +1 thief is pretty much not needed( because of mesmer) and easily countered. Using celera words again, lol, DH are good at beating thieves and DH are also ranged. So a DH can actually sPam traps at the home cap and range mid for support. And etc…

Burn.5401:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Well when ones can’t debate facts they resort to silly sayings, lol. The level of illiteracy on this thread is insane, did anyone praise warrior?

You certainly did praise DH with nonsense presented as fact.

Funny thing is, 90% of my post on thi thread comes from celera himself and his god zoose; so what’s your point? Celera presented zoose website as a fact and I used zoose website to prove my point. So are you saying zoose is nonsensical??

And also what about zoose description of thief and DH, don’t you like? Care to explain??

Still who praise warrior on this thread?? Cause if Noone did then someone need to better their reading skills

Well when ones can’t debate facts they resort to silly sayings, lol. The level of illiteracy on this thread is insane, did anyone praise warrior?

Lexander.4579:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

that just goes to confirm my words about making a new acc with low mmr to stomp through newbies into high rank

Why ? Aint that skill and system works right ? Or smth ?

So basically you confirm that account with High MMR gets free ticket to haven ? xD Or what ? I won’t even post on my main on this forum it’s fun just to troll wanabe elititsts mongrels in here from alt acc. The power of internet at it’s finest.

actually i said the exact opposite, you start with low mmr as a new account and that allows you to stomp newbies all the way up in the ranks landing you conveniently high before you can face any serious enemies

also sapphire-ruby confirmed, lol

Actually q times are lame for p2 so I don’t even bother with it in MY prime time.

Lmaoed on denial of anet statement that new acc has average MMR.

Caith Frostball leeto are gods for doing it everyone else is a scrub. Good times buddy. Btw about game quality they are better in diamond ruby because ppl there want to win, not to troll with gimmicky builds.

so you think that new acc is going to have higher mmr than people like you that are stuck in the average divisions? i strongly doubt that its what they meant by “average MMR”

dont think you have the gut to admit that on your new acc you’ve played matches where enemies had no idea what to do, where to go and whom you could probably beat even 1v2

The answer to this question is yes. New account start with a high volatile and a better MMR than vet players. So a new player first game can break or make his account… yes new account have higher MMR than vets and can increase theirs by winning. Check this thread for more details:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Legend-Queue-Times/page/4#post6051048

There is another thread can’t in it atm

when i press the link it just takes me to the last post in the thread

Start on page 3… redjucator. Starr from there

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

that just goes to confirm my words about making a new acc with low mmr to stomp through newbies into high rank

Why ? Aint that skill and system works right ? Or smth ?

So basically you confirm that account with High MMR gets free ticket to haven ? xD Or what ? I won’t even post on my main on this forum it’s fun just to troll wanabe elititsts mongrels in here from alt acc. The power of internet at it’s finest.

actually i said the exact opposite, you start with low mmr as a new account and that allows you to stomp newbies all the way up in the ranks landing you conveniently high before you can face any serious enemies

also sapphire-ruby confirmed, lol

Actually q times are lame for p2 so I don’t even bother with it in MY prime time.

Lmaoed on denial of anet statement that new acc has average MMR.

Caith Frostball leeto are gods for doing it everyone else is a scrub. Good times buddy. Btw about game quality they are better in diamond ruby because ppl there want to win, not to troll with gimmicky builds.

so you think that new acc is going to have higher mmr than people like you that are stuck in the average divisions? i strongly doubt that its what they meant by “average MMR”

dont think you have the gut to admit that on your new acc you’ve played matches where enemies had no idea what to do, where to go and whom you could probably beat even 1v2

The answer to this question is yes. New account start with a high volatile and a better MMR than vet players. So a new player first game can break or make his account… yes new account have higher MMR than vets and can increase theirs by winning. Check this thread for more details:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Legend-Queue-Times/page/4#post6051048

There is another thread can’t in it atm

Funny because you disagree with Zoose stance on DD and DH, i suspect that zoose might have made a typo or clearly two people wrote his article, anywho… Let me start by saying that Zoose is a pro players so he has a better undertsanding of the classes than i. But i clearly disagree with him there; and so do you, and here is why:

First, you have stated that DH beat DD, to that i have added the folowing:

- DH combo well with other class
- Good capping pressure
- Hard to take a point away from them
-Nice dps
- they hard cc in team fight

And you came back with this

“DD has the role of being the most mobile class in the game. DH has no role and a source of damage completely negated by projectile control. Both of those statements can be true even if DH would be favored to win the 1v1.”

And here is what your God (since some folks can;t think for themselves) says:

Dragonhunter

– Good vs. Condi-Mesmer, Thief, Necro
– Bad vs. unblockable spells, Elementalist, Revenant
– Traps give you an ability to play a unique mind game where you can zone your enemy
– Daze and AoE damage on downed bodies is incredibly high
– Longbow is the only good weapon on Dragonhunter unfortunately, so it’s countered by projectiles

Thief

– It’s not supposed to be a 1v1 class, but it can kill Revenants and Druids solo
– Bad vs. everything that will kill you
– Still the fastest class in the game with Shortbow and Shadowstep/Shadowtrap
– Has easiest access to stealth in the game, you can effectively choose to never take a bad engagement
– Stealth = mind games…or uselessness (you decide)
– Excels at +1-ing a fight mostly a 1v1, and excels at porting up and down Z axis heavy maps such as Khylo and Temple
– Dazes wreck your life which is why Thief counters Druid

Ah, you know what they say : The devil is in the details". Based on what zoose wrote, its pretty clear that the only thing thieves have going for them is +1 pressure. Good, now lets look at the meta:

1 portal mesmer on every team.

Now whats a thief +1 pressure to a mesmer mobility/portals (aka +5 since he can portal all of his teammate)???
Second DH is , according to zoose, Good vs. Condi-Mesmer, Thief, Necro where thieves can only +1.

See where i am going… Educate yourself my friend, learn the classes and how they works. I believe zoose made a mistake on his ranking, clearly his data contradict his ranking of the classes.

Ruru.1302:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Lmao, lol said the guy who admit that DH can beat thI eve’s and since warriors are at the bottom of the barrel?? How is DH still the 8th worst class?? Using celera words:

- DH can beat thieves
- DH can beat warriors

So how is DH the 8th worst class when we only have 9?

To add to those credentials:

-DH combo well with other class
- Good capping pressure
- Hard to take a point away from them
-Nice dps
- they hard cc in teamfight

I mean a brain is not needed at this point to distinguish between the two classes, one is clearly better than the other and it’s not DD.

Berserkers and Thieves can also beat DH. I don’t see how you can draw a conclusion based on possible scenario.

Here’s some pros of a DD:
- Still the fastest class in the game, and as such, has highest decap potential.
- Still arguably the best +1 class in the game.
- Can deal with reaper chill better than most classes.
- Interrupt on demand.

Notice how I didn’t list any cons of the DD.

Show me where I emphasized that winning 1 vs 1 100% of the time make one class better then the other?? Or have you missed the bold statement? The facts are 80% of the time a DH will win a duel against a warrior or thief in a TEAM GAME, not a 1 vs 1. Granted that some Killshot warriors or longbow warriors have a shot against DH last time I checked warrior was a melee class, and a good DH could always outplay them ( reflect, aegis, etc..)

My barometer has always being how well the class synergies with others.

Ok the thing about branigan is that he doesn’t undertsand/comprehend that there was no MMR reset this season. So, it’s very hard for him to get himself to undertsand those words.

Lmao, lol said the guy who admit that DH can beat thI eve’s and since warriors are at the bottom of the barrel?? How is DH still the 8th worst class?? Using celera words:

- DH can beat thieves
- DH can beat warriors

So how is DH the 8th worst class when we only have 9?

To add to those credentials:

-DH combo well with other class
- Good capping pressure
- Hard to take a point away from them
-Nice dps
- they hard cc in teamfight

I mean a brain is not needed at this point to distinguish between the two classes, one is clearly better than the other and it’s not DD.

Perhaps, the thief was a thief main and no DH main qualified for the tourney; sorry I am smart enough to not argue with knaves, just pointing out the flaw in your nonsensical argument. ( DH being the 8th worst class)

“You know what guys I main thief and Bob main DH, unfortunately Bob team didn’t qualify for the tourney; However because I know DH are better than thieves I am going to hop on DH and put our whole team in jeopardy” knaves logic.

rastaman.1905:

Celeras.4980:

Fivedawgs.4267:

I can’t belive the guy above me just called DH the 8th worst class; just to show you how ignorant some of the so called good players are.

Easily. And it’s not even close.

Revenant, Scrapper, Chrono, Tempest, Reaper, Druid, DD, DH, Warrior. The bottom two are not arguable. Any of the others you could make a case for slight variations.

Being unable to recognize these kinds of things show why you belong at the bottom.

see how many games you can win with 3 dd or 3 wars on your team, than see how many you can win with 3 dh on your team. last match i had with 2 dh on one team and 2 wars on the other ended 500-43 in favor of the dh team.

I can’t believe you even bothered with him, here is what he said on another thread

Celeras.4980:

You will see thieves. If they do well you might see a DH or two as killing thieves is the only thing they’re the best at.

You will not see a Warrior. All of their roles are provided better by other classes.

He is either trolling or don’t know what he us typing. Add to DH capping potential, their ability to hold point, their cc in teamfight and their dps. Sometimes it just better to ignore knaves.

It does exist, and I went over that with rdjudicator( someone who actually understand glicko 2). It wouldn’t exist if lower players weren’t stacked together against high, or if a 50/50 scenario or pip ( no MMR included) was implemented. And I am not going to go over it; if you want more info check the legend times queue thread.

I wonder if some folks can read. "It’s not MMR hell, it’s just that you are teamed wit player who shouldn’t be in their division ". But they are on his division, so what’s your point??

Op this what many of us have been experiencing, and tbh I mo longer give an iota about this season. But yeah, this season is a dice game, the luckier you are/ the better your MMR is; more wins are going to fall under your belt.