Guild Wars 2

NeXeD.3042:

Working ok for me I guess….

Only one game ended with the losing side having more than 300 points.

Keep thinking that S2 match making is working ok, kiddo.

Didn’t you have a necro in your team?

Inb4 the first “no MMR hell, git gud” post.

Nice analysis btw.

“To rotate” is the verb used to define moving from one cap point to another.

I.E.: You’re mid and you need/are expected to go close → “rotate close”.

It’s not however used to avoid group of players, it’s used in order to try to take an advantage on an enemy team, for example if you have 2 bunkers/bruisers on mid facing 3 enemies, another teammate fighting far and the last one fighting close, you may “rotate” to far or close in order to get the +1 needed and secure that point.

lighter.2708:

people already did that

No.

LastHope.8127:

16 wins in a row and counting is a bit beyond luck I think. Elsewise I ought to buy a lottery ticket.

Not sure if it’s a poor trolling attempt or just good ol’ plain confirmation bias.

LLLWWW = +2 pips
LWLWLW = 0 pips

Not considering the possibility that the starting pip is 0 in a specific division or tier in Sapphire-.

Winstreak reward should be scrapped from the system.

It doesn’t reward skill at all, it just rewards the “luck of the draw”. It’s the most idiotic thing in this season.

You should add if you’re in NA or EU.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

here is a screenshot of my main account in legend

It’s appalling, the only close score I see it’s your only defeat in temple.

It’s patethic to what lengths some players go in order to justify this awful match making system, guess they’re all on the right side of it.

brannigan.9831:

You are still overestimating how fast your personal MMR rises or falls at any level of games. Just because you have a 70% win rate on the noob account doesn’t mean it has a higher MMR then an account with thousands of games and a win rate of 55%. It almost certainly does not. It wouldn’t make sense at all for it too. A-net should just make everyones MMR visible so we can be done with this nonsense once and for all.

The denial is stronk in you.

Shadow.1345:

No, it won’t help because there are already plenty of guides out there and plenty of posts on the forum where top players have given tips and strategy on how to be more effective and people still make the same mistakes.

This.

Most people who are pvping these days are just there to grind divisions without any real interest in learning/getting better.

For starters I’d like to see HP bars for the Lord and casters/soldiers like we had in GW1 GvG.

Cynz.9437:

You guys focus on thief too much. I noticed generally if i play other classes, no matter how crappy i played nobody says anything. When i play on thief, even if i did fine, EVEN if enemy team says “great thief” (yes that actually happend quite few times) and we actually win i still get to hear a lot of unreasonable crap from my own team.

The problem with thief is that 9 out of 10 are terrible at it, since it requires a very good map awareness and enemy class management. It’s probably the only class that doesn’t allow a player to be an average performer.

- 3 players that all start to stomp the downed enemy in foefire, and no one except me giving a kitten about the druid on the ledge laughing before using SnR
- Teefs who go mid at start, die in 2 seconds, respawn, go back mid, rinse and repeat for 5+ times, not a single time they try to decap far (which is empty since all 5 enemies are constantly at mid)
- People afking on close all the match, as soon as they get a 1v1 they get rekt in 10 seconds (especially some P.V. guy – hinthint – on his necro who got rekt by a Rev lol)
- Usual dumbos who go in 1-2 at far after wiping enemies at mid, just to be roflstomped by all the respawning enemies, and then the game snowballs from that point on
- Enemies wiped on mid, first enemy respawn goes to close, all the teammates at mid go there and leave me alone at mid to be zerged by the other 4 respawning enemies.

These are the first ones on the top of my mind, I’m sure there’re a lot more of hilarious things that I just deleted from my mind to avoid all the hurt. And these things happened in diamond div, not ruby.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

even if hes a pro he cant carry 4 scrubs or plebs whatever he call u guys from winning a game. everyone is expected to contribute 20% to the team. 1 person may carry 1 more bad player but he can only be effective as 2 person which is 40% the other 3 players must still be doing what they suppose to do.

Exactly.

So all the other uber-pros of the “git gud and carry the game alone” meme should shut the kitten up when other people say “you can’t carry a team of 3-4 bads”, since skill is relative and not absolute.

Fun fact about the carrying argument.

Today I was in a match, that we lost really badly. 548-16. That was how badly.

The fun part is that we had, apparently, a pro player, who repeatedly called us “nonames”, “scrubs”, etc., you get the picture.

So, if he was indeed a proplayer (I’ll keep the name for myself at the moment, apparently he was really a pro, need to investigate a little bit more thou just to be sure), how come then we lost the game that badly? Wasn’t a proplayer supposed to carry matches? If he can’t do that, how could an average/good player do that if he’s fed bad teammates?

Specifically necros and condimesmers.

VS teams with a lot of necros/mesmers, I found useful to drop Bulwark and equip Elixir C, along with Adaptive Armor instead of Final Salvo.

But, if vs necro I can manage with some effort to keep up the fight (kiting, using C at the right moment, etc.), I’m having a really hard time when I face a condimesmer in 1v1.

I try to avoid the first two consecutive shatters, but after a while I find that the constant pressure is too much and usually get rekt even when using Elixir C (kittening Moa lol).

How do you deal vs those 2 builds especially in 1v1 situations on a point? Apart from the “avoid 1v1ing them and go somewhere else”. :>

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I’m shocked at the intense level of individuality I see in some ppl despite being myself an individualist and living in N-America since forever.

Indeed. “The Drunkard’s Walk” should be a compulsory read for everyone in school.

KhaidaG.5098:

Of course it’s true. If we look at it from the opposing point of view then what? Some accounts are eternally doomed to never be able to climb just because they have lost some games in the past? Individual skill has no meaning anymore because this account is forever going to get matched with bad teammates vs unbeatable opponents? If you’re good enough, given enough time you carry your way out of whatever division you’re in. If you’re not good enough you stay there and rightfully so, this is the nature of competitive gaming.

You’re clearly ignorant about how the MMR (or any Elo/Glicko system) works. Just keep pretending that if you go up, it’s just because you’re a top player, it’s impossible to discuss vs any belief system like yours.

Must be that the reason why I still see utter trash players in diamond: they deserve it. Yeah, must be that.

KhaidaG.5098:

My point is: if I can do just fine in soloq with no HoT and ridiculous ping then, sooner or later, anyone with HoT and normal ping can climb the divisions if they truly don’t belong in the division they’re currently in.

And that’s what Sirb disagreed with. It’s just not true due to how MMR+MM work.

I’ll add my data to the fray.

Over 450: 2
400 – 450: 0
300 – 400: 3
200 – 300: 4
100 – 200: 1
Less than 100: 0

Highest losing score was in a match ended 520-491 (forest).

Malediktus.9250:

GW2 rewards you for participation in every game mode, even in raids (since you get shards for wiping over and over). So it is just fair that pvp rewards you for participating too

Let’s keep the carebear attitude in PvE and not bring it in a competitive mode, alright?

Crimson Shi.5047:

All the screenshots with the teams getting stomped on show, ambers, emeralds, and sapphires. So the teams with full diamonds are stomping those lower tier members pretty easily, and rightly so. If you look too, some of those amber/emerald/sapphire players had grouped. The MMR matchs you against teams with the highest tier, not the lowest. These screenies don’t really prove a thing except for people to stop teaming up with lower tier people, and expecting to do good.

I don’t give a kitten if they team with lower divisions players.

What I’m tired sick of is getting teamed always with this kind of trash and losing game after game just because of that.

Honestly, I’m fed up of getting teamed with utter kittens 9 games out of 10. The last one was borderline hilarious and depressing. This is what you get at tier 1 in diamond if your MMR is just a little bit kittened up.

MadVisions.4529:

The amont of totally, TOTALLY shet diamond and legend players whom i am forced to play with is shocking me.

You’re not alone there. I’m seeing the worst in diamond too so far, they don’t know even the basics.

Zietlogik.6208:

I am still trying to decipher what the numbers in the grid correspond to, it seems to be X% of players with Y hr playtime, have averages of Z% winrate? So the top 50% of players with 500-1000hr have a winrate of 49.17%?

Yes, exactly that.

Ruru.1302:

Reapers dumpster scrappers.

Condimesmer is even worse for a scrapper.

Burtnik.5218:

You will always leap at least 2 times inside water field when fighting on a point. Thats a fact. Its main reason why scrapper has so high sustain.

Not at all, it depends on where you start the leap relative to the position of the center of the field if you don’t have a target (you can even make all 3 leaps inside the field if you start using it on the edge of the field), or where you target is positioned (standing inside the field or peeling off at the right time, etc.).

Fivedawgs.4267:

Nice thread indeed… 1 is Def broken, I didn’t know they could triple leap into the water field. I’ll see if I can come up with more suggestions but pretty much listed them all.

You can’t by yourself.

You need to use it in front of an obstacle that blocks your path in order to get all 3 leaps inside the field, or ofc use it on a target that will stand inside the same field during the leaps.

Siren.2843:

I remember GW1 where, if you wanted to have matches that were remotely fun, you HAD to team up. The first thing that struck me when I installed GW2 is that that hassle was gone. I could press join and pvp, as simple as that, and it wasn’t even all that bad.

And yet, after roughly the same time from day one, GW1 pvp had yet a lot more players willing to play both main pvp modes (tomb and gvg).

Fluffball.8307:

Galandil.9641:

Pip range apparently has been already increased

I doubt it was increased. Didn’t they always say it would eventually expand to find players? There aren’t a lot of legendaries yet.

And honestly, at diamond and up, who cares how many pips apart everyone is? I’d even go as far as t4 ruby. It’s all the same.

Keep in mind that most of it is ofc anedoctal evidence.

But we had, before the last patch, people in diamond complaining about 30+ mins queue, someone has even reached the 1h mark, even during prime time, and we never heard of matches with people very distant in pips range.

Now we’ve already had reports about the one I mentioned, and another one (in the same thread) of an sapphire player put in a match with everyone else being emerald (the emerald player reporting it had just 1 pip).

We all were under the assumption that the range was of 15 pips (+/-7), and that’s why some players experienced such long queue times in div 5 during the first 2 weeks of the season.

Now, a patch hits, and people get matched with other players in a range of 35 pips, hence my conclusion of an expanded pips range to shorten queue times.

Archon.6480:

Mogar.9216:

:) welcome to the death spiral and get rdy for ppl to tell you to l2p.
I found that take a 24 hr break seem to fix the problem.

Thanks, I’ll give that a try. Does anyone know if switching to Stronghold helps?

It doesn’t.

Yasi.9065:

2. Increase pip range upwards
Now another solution would be to just increase pip range upwards to search from for premades. Maybe even something like increasing piprange upwards according to premade’s rostersize.

Pip range apparently has been already increased at least at 35 pips overall. A player at 0 pips in diamond reported a game in which he had two legendary players in the match.

We should all deal with the fact that there’re way less players actively playing now than in the previous season, Anet won’t give a kitten until S3 (even thou this result is completely their fault).

1v1 is not spam.

Teamfights, on the other hand… there’s no way a player can see/understand everything that happens in a 4v4 with all the skills used and graphical effects blowing all around.

It’s poorly worded, yes. But it was confirmed by Anet on reddit, partial achievements don’t reset, so if you reach say 2 divisions crossed on 4 of the Part IV one during this season, in the next you’ll only need to cross 2 more divisions to complete it.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Unless I’m mistaken you do have to cross 4 divisions in the same season to get hymn of glory no (required for gift of the competitor)? That means reaching diamond if I’m not mistaken.

You’re mistaken.

The crossing of divisions can be done during any season, for example you just need to reach legendary div in just 2 seasons to complete the whole 10 div crossings. Or legend x2 in S1 and diamond in S2, etc.

Ok, now here it is: if you’ve put full time work hours for the whole duration of 2 months in the previous season and you didn’t reach ruby (especially playing mesmer, which in the last season was a complete joke in how it was OP and easy to play with the chronobunker spec), then you definitely don’t deserve the backpack.

Ithilwen.1529:

It’s worse than sad. It means that matches will be even more unbalanced than they were. It also means that I have exactly 0 chance of winning the wings.. so the rest of the year is a waste of time for me. Why should I play? Why should anyone play, unless thye have pre -made ridden to diamond?

Please stop it. To get the wings, you just need to cross 10 division thresholds during all 4 seasons. That means that you only need to reach at the least twice Ruby and twice Sapphire, or three times Ruby and once Emerald.

You don’t need to hit diamond not even once in order to get the the backpack.

And btw PvP should be played just for the sake of it, not for some stupid skin, that would be the “plus”, not the main reason.

fishball.7204:

Galandil.9641:

And there goes the theory of the 15 pips maximum range for all the participants in a single match.

Anet what have you done?

I had no pip in diamond and i had 2 legendary in my game. So yeah I duno what anet did.

You know what? I guess that they quietly and silently ninja-patched the algorithm, extending a lot the pip range (0 pip in diamond – legendary is minimum 35 pips lol) due to high diamond/legendary players not able to get a game even after 20-30 minutes of queue.

So now we have a stacking MM and huge pip range search. Wow. Just, wow, the active players must be so few atm to change something in such a drastic way.

Edit: do you remember the teams distribution? Were the legends one per team, or both in the same one?

Decap like crazy and +1 quickly where’s needed.

That’s the main thief role.

So at least you should get quite often the Top Objective Neutralizer. If you don’t get this stat at least 60% of your matches, rethink what you’re doing. This is the starter.

SailorSpira.9371:

BrotherBelial.3094:

T1 Emerald vs Sapphire? I don’t think that should be happening.

Last night. The player pool is just too small.

And there goes the theory of the 15 pips maximum range for all the participants in a single match.

Anet what have you done?

TPMN.1483:

There is no que…if you believe hard enough.
It’s fine we waited 10 mins for a match at ruby – was sad

Your optimism is amazing!

Title says all.

displacedTitan.6897:

You have the second part totally wrong. They dont put the 5 highest and 5 lowest MMR into two teams. The system takes your pip range and finds people in that pip range around your MMR and teams you. It does the same with another group of five players from within their pip range and around their MMR. Then it matches two teams of five players who most closely match in pips and MMR.

Its not taking 10 and splitting into 5 high and 5 low, that would make literally zero sense.

Are you aware that the final result is always the same both ways? The stacking is always present, or we wouldn’t get that many blowup matches.

Let’s say that at a given time, 10 players apply for queue. They’re all inside a 3 pips range. One of these players will have the lowest MMR, another one the highest. These players will never be put in the same team. Same goes for the second lowest and second highest MMR and so on.

Ofc the pairing could change based on the moment of queue applying, but we don’t know that for sure. For example, if the first two players to apply are the lowest and the highest MMR ones, are we sure that these are put in the same team OR that the MMR waits for more players to apply in order to make teams of “similar skill level”?

With all this evidence so far of total blowouts, I’d bet on the latter behaviour of the MM instead of the former.

Absymal.

/15 charrs

Yasi.9065:

Ravenmoon.5318:

(…)
Lol … who kills an engi 1on1 :O
(…)

A corruption necro… or a good old terrormancer probably… dunno about condi shatter mesmer, might not have enough conditions vs elixir cleanse.

This. Corruption necros are a real pain in the kitten for a scrapper, the other day I got once, during a match, two corruption necros who were in party that I didn’t see coming: got rekt in few seconds with their condibombing.

Condishatter mesmer are another thing, so far I only met one of those who was really good at it and put me under great pressure, but you can drag the fight for quite some time if you know how to time cleanses.

Yasi.9065:

If the brackets for matchmaking are set to +/- 250, and the deviation from perfectly calculated mmr is at around 10%, then you can easily get someone that should be considered a slightly below avg player mixed in with the average crowd at 1500. You also can get put in with the average crowd as a slightly above avg player….

Yasi, pls read my post before. MMR is not taken into account when chosing the 10 players pool for creating a match, the only criteria is the pips range of all players (which must fall inside a maximum range of, apparently, +/- 15 pips).

The MMR is used only to stack the teams: the 5 lowest MMR players in one team, the 5 highest in the other.

And that’s what causing the problem.

So, “git gud” for everybody?

Loop.8106:

From the recent games in high diamond. It looks like mmr is a non-existant thing. Everything from people going boss at start of forest to pushing lords with 2 people at 110-90.

I don’t think mmr should be utilized together with Leagues. I think League placement should be the only rating they count.
Sure, it will be a complete kittenshow at season restart. But then again, in what game isn’t there?

Lol@high diamond tiers going for beasts at start in forest. Dem skilled players.

BTW, I agree with scrapping completely the MMR from the equation, get 10 players inside a pip range, and distribute them randomly between the teams.

OR, the other solution, but way more drastic: make ranked like GW1 GvG – only full 5 players premades can enter it. Leave Unranked for soloqueuers. This is a kitten team game. But I guess this would go against the majority of the ego-inflated individualist player base.

Fivedawgs.4267:

How is this match up even possible??? How kittened up is the MM algorithm? ? Like really??

It’s simple, the players are taken considering only their actual pips. So they are all inside the +/-15 pips range (they must be high sapphire tiers and lower ruby tiers).

After that, the fantastic MM just stacks the team: the lowest MMR players on a team, and the higher MMR players on the other.