Guild Wars 2

Any hero points you’re spending to unlock the rest of the lines is part of the refund. They tried to give you an equivalent of whatever you were using before the patch, and left you with the remainder to spend on your own. You’re not repurchasing anything. It’s just in excess of the refund.

TJgalon.5012:

or sooner then 80 if you did the skill challages of old.

Right, I just wanted to make it really clear that EVERYONE who is level 80 can unlock everything. It’s just a matter of spending the refunded points that weren’t used on the automatic build selection.

There’s no option for: “What specializations? Lobster’s Arch is FANTASTIC!”

Edit: When I made this post, the title did not have (specializations) in it. It was probably added in response to my statement, to clarify what the discussion was about, but I sincerely wasn’t attempting to derail so much as point out that there’s more to the patch that wasn’t covered in the poll.

If you’re level 80, you’ll have to unlock a few of the circles, which is fine, because there’s literally no other use for hero points than to unlock your builds.

If you’re not level 80 and got an auto-build that’s not so great for you, I’m sorry. I’d file a ticket, personally.

If you are level 80, you can retrait by simply choosing another line at the far left of your trait lines. Two of your five options are not shown by default; you have to select them. Otherwise, you can freely choose different major traits among your lines once you’ve unlocked them all- which you’ll be able to do, as long as you’re level 80.

I deleted my keys a year after the event ended. So, of COURSE it’s back. Is Scarlet’s Hideout also going to be making an appearance?

I’m just incredibly happy to see the 2014-2015 trait system burrrrrrn. Will not miss it at all. My condolences to those of you who will miss it, though.

Vermillion.4061:

I’ll be calling everything by 6/6/6/0/0 still.

And how will you determine the order of those 5 lines, given that there are literally only 3 lines visible at any time?

BolkovonHarnfeldt.1372:

Rauderi.8706:

Signal boosting the community announcement about HoT.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pre-purchase-community-address/

Not sure about the win part.
What do you think would have been the reaction if they offered this model in the first place? I think a lot of people would have been upset that the character slot is only a pre-purchase bonus instead a permanent feature.
But now, it seems like the best and most generous deal we could have possibly imagined.

Compared to the last 12 months, it is kitten near a miracle from on high.

I wish the laurel vendor included the wings from “Boss Week” too. That was a meta reward during S1 that has never made a return.

Weren’t there more minis? Mai Trin, Kasmeer and the karka hatchlings, for example?

You could use it as a storage mule- load it up with 20-slot bags and stack your bloodstone dust/other account bound items in it.

Mojo Gris Gris.5941:

Shot:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pre-purchase-community-address/

Chaser:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Ascended-Gear-Anet-please-fix-this/first#post5173842

extra bonus:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Skill-points-and-Spirit-Shards/first#post5187859

Many thanks, Anet.

It’s been a great day all around, to see so many concerns addressed. Reminds me a bit of ANET from 2013! (And that is a huge compliment!)

Also, I feel that the announcement regarding prepurchasing was especially quick turnaround for such a big company. Well done, ANET.

I still don’t see how the FAQ could be interpreted in any other way than to mean that the core game would be a requirement in order for Heart of Thorns to function, but as long as they’re sorting that out for the players who have purchased the core game since HoT was announced, that’s really the crucial part, in my opinion. It’s a nice bit of transparency to include that this will be their business model going forward, unless people down the line try to claim that they shouldn’t be held accountable for what they say if their practices change overnight.

This goes a ways to buy back some of my good will. I was never going to buy it at that price point (without a lot more information, anyway), but it’s at least something I’ll consider doing on sale (or sooner, if reviews are favorable).

Rauderi.8706:

Taxidriver.2043:

give extra scrolls to under level 80 alts and make sure they have 65 skill points.

That wouldn’t work, unfortunately. Skill points existing on a character get converted to Spirit Shards.

The Hero Points accrued tomorrow will come from Level and Hero Challenges (skill challenges) completed.

Per this post they’ll all be obtained from getting to level 80. The rest will go toward elite specializations and mastery, in heart of thorns.

Edit: Which I now realize is basically what you said. So… just consider that link an extra for people who haven’t heard the news yet.

As long as you’re level 80, you’re going to have enough hero points.

Celtic Lady.3729:

sorudo.9054:

if the core game has become free, does that mean we can make a new account without HoT for free?
oh and if that’s not the case, it’s not really free now is it.

Yeah, it’s free for new players only.

So how much does just the core game cost now? Oh, right. You can’t get the core game on its own anymore. So it’s either a free bonus with HoT that has some sort of value outside of HoT, or it’s not a free bonus, and is thus factored in as part of the price of HoT.

It’s not a bonus, because it’s no longer being sold on its own. If you want to play guild wars 2 as of now, you’re buying Heart of Thorns.

It’s not free because there’s no where to download the vanilla game for a price. As above, it’s not being sold at all anymore.

It’s not a bundle because there’s no option to separate the two. Neither piece has its own individual price, and on top of that, the vast majority of people who would want to pre-order, people who already own the base game, only get the “free” base game if they start a brand new account, and apply the expansion to that account.

You’d be surprised, Sthenith, at how many people don’t stay up-to-date and get mats beforehand.

Also, Wanze is pretty well-known for being in-game wealthy enough that he does not need to bother with influencing the market in any underhanded way. I’m pretty interested in the rest of the post, myself.

ColinJohanson.2394:

A quick update on this one -> After feedback from presenting the original hero point count – we decided getting to level 80 will give you enough hero points to unlock all the core skills and traits entirely. Doing hero challenges (aka skill challenges) will simply allow you to earn all the skills/traits earlier before level 80. With the release of HoT, there will be options to spend the excess hero points earned from doing hero challenges in the world.

There are a number of other changes on 6/23 to make the experience from 1-80 more exciting, better-paced, rewarding, and fun as well after having the time to evaluate and player feedback from the updates last year.

-CJ

I think this is a very good decision! Thanks for letting us know, and taking our feedback into consideration. I’m looking forward to the update even more now.

aspirine.6852:

So tomes and stuff like that are unaffected right? Using tome now will give me one level, tomorrow the same. And the same with skill scrolls or whatever you call them…

Skill scrolls are turning into spirit shards. A writ of experience might be what you’re thinking of, and will continue to function normally, except it cannot be used on a character at level 80.

I like my rangers.

DeadReaper.6527:

mrstealth.6701:

MiniEquine.6014:

At no point did they say not to complain about it, just that, in their opinion, the complaints are somewhat out of hand. Speak out if you feel like it, but it really has gotten to some ridiculous levels (like trying to file a class-action lawsuit? really?). Anet owes us more communication, clarification, and possibly apologies too, but this forum has been almost literally nothing but repeat threads about the expansion price.

For customers that purchased GW2 in the recent months when Anet had been marketing (deceptively) the base game as being required before buying HoT, there is valid reasoning for legal action. That deceptive marketing very likely false under the definitions of US false advertising laws.

You can just ask for a refund / discount in the support area of gw2, they may accord you a way to be discounted for the price of HOT if you pay for the core game now that they give it for free (if you got it in less than a month ago I think)

I’ll believe that when there’s official ANET word on it, and not a moment sooner. However, I’d like to point out that this FAQ was up for five months, and likely misled a lot of people in that time period. I guess the rest of the people are just out of luck.

Pifil.5193:

Straylight.7529:

You did NOT pay Arenanet in advance so they owe you three years of updates. You paid for Guild Wars 2 in it’s vanilla state. Nothing more, nothing less.

No we didn’t. It’s an MMO so frequent updates are expected and included as part of the base product. They sold the game on the basis of their post-launch plans. No-one would buy an MMO that wasn’t planning on adding new content just like no-one would release an MMO that wasn’t planning on adding new content. That’s not how the market works.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-23-guild-wars-2-developer-has-plans-for-literally-years-to-come

“Look,” concluded Price, "even from our standpoint we’ve got years of work, of great work, that players are going to be able to enjoy.

“We’re launching a service – you don’t launch a box and be done with it. We have years of awesome, fun work ahead of us.”

Articles like that are the reason people bought into GW2.

This is way too rational for some people, but very well-said. And, truly, not said often enough. I don’t understand this mentality that Living Story updates are “gravy” on top of the base game. They’re not. They’re meant to entice players into picking up the game (which it did, for me) and buying from the gemshop (also did for me) which is increasing their revenue.

They’re changing their business model, and nobody but ANET is sure of why that is, but one thing I will say is that this expansion’s value should not take into account previous updates to the game. I would not have bought an MMO without a clearly stated plan for regular updates to the game. Living Story is what brought me in the door. It’s why they have my money for 2 accounts.

This is the worst kind of straw man, and it needs to stop. The game was advertised as being buy to play with content updates. Stop acting like it should factor in to how we value Heart of Thorns, except to provide context for what the expansion might look like. That’s it. It wasn’t “free” it was the selling point.

I wouldn’t pre-purchase anything from this company, and certainly not without a clear release schedule, after the Infinite Continue Coin debacle remains unresolved, but I was starting to have some good will again. Enough that I was contemplating upgrading both of my accounts, and almost certainly planning to buy (perhaps post-release) the expansion for my main account.

At $25 for the base price, both accounts would have been a sure thing from me, once a date was announced. I’d probably even have considered $35 a fair enough price for my main account to get it. But given what last year was like, and what this year has been like thus far (content-wise and “communication”), I’m simply going to wait and see what reviewers have to say, and for the price to fall.

It’s really a weird question. I doubt there are “rules” beyond passing their quality measurements.

DieselFueled.3257:

Do not for 1 minute believe that opinions like those of the OP are shared by the “veteran” or even the new player base.

Do not for one second presume to speak for any “base” at all. You speak for yourself, just like I speak for myself.

Also, the OP asked a simple question.

Jski.6180:

Guhracie.3419:

Jski.6180:

I do not get it was it really a question that you need GW2 to play GW2? If they keep the old wording it would be ok too becuse this is a per-order so your reward for doing just that the price often is not made higher becuse its a per-order. If that was the error ppl keep going on about I am at a lose over this out rage this is how games worked for some time now.

The issue is that now it has come to light that you do not need the core game in order to play HoT. In fact, the only way to buy the so-called “core” game now is the $50 Heart of Thorns “bundle,” despite advertising for months (nearly half a year, in fact) in the official FAQ that anyone wanting to play the expansion would need to buy the core game first.

So people bought the core game, and now find out that they did not, in fact, need to make that purchase at all.

I don’t think it was done maliciously, but it was certainly misleading, and they chose to try and sweep it under the rug by quietly changing that wording on the FAQ…. the day they released the information.

So, new player A sees an ad for the expansion, goes to the FAQ, sees that statement that it’s necessary to have the core game if they want to play the expansion, and then buys the game for $30 in February.

Fast forward to June. A is enjoying the base game and looking forward to the expansion. Then the company announces that all copies of Heart of Thorns will come with access to the base game.

A now has to buy what is essentially a standalone product, despite doing the research beforehand, and the company doesn’t even own up to their mistake. If the FAQ had been accurate, A would have waited to purchase the game, but it’s been four months and A is no longer eligible for a refund.

You do need the core game to play HoT but you can per-order HoT and it comes with the core game. If they once HoT comes out did not have the core game with it THEN you would have to buy GW2 on-top of HoT. Has every one lost there minds this is how per-orders / early kick starers work for some time.

Okay, show me on the website where I can purchase the core game. On the GW2 website.

Jski.6180:

I do not get it was it really a question that you need GW2 to play GW2? If they keep the old wording it would be ok too becuse this is a per-order so your reward for doing just that the price often is not made higher becuse its a per-order. If that was the error ppl keep going on about I am at a lose over this out rage this is how games worked for some time now.

The issue is that now it has come to light that you do not need the core game in order to play HoT. In fact, the only way to buy the so-called “core” game now is the $50 Heart of Thorns “bundle,” despite advertising for months (nearly half a year, in fact) in the official FAQ that anyone wanting to play the expansion would need to buy the core game first.

So people bought the core game, and now find out that they did not, in fact, need to make that purchase at all.

I don’t think it was done maliciously, but it was certainly misleading, and they chose to try and sweep it under the rug by quietly changing that wording on the FAQ…. the day they released the information.

So, new player A sees an ad for the expansion, goes to the FAQ, sees that statement that it’s necessary to have the core game if they want to play the expansion, and then buys the game for $30 in February.

Fast forward to June. A is enjoying the base game and looking forward to the expansion. Then the company announces that all copies of Heart of Thorns will come with access to the base game.

A now has to buy what is essentially a standalone product, despite doing the research beforehand, and the company doesn’t even own up to their mistake. If the FAQ had been accurate, A would have waited to purchase the game, but it’s been four months and A is no longer eligible for a refund.

Sorry, Ms. Buenaobra, but I have problems with that explanation. If the base game were actually a free “bonus” with purchase of Heart of Thorns, the base game would still have to be available for a standalone price. It is not.

If Heart of Thorns is being valued at $50, that means the core game is valued at nothing. If that were the case, the core game should be available free to download. Therefore, Heart of Thorns itself has to be valued at 50-$Standard, but $Standard doesn’t exist.

There is no way to buy just the standard game anymore.

I don’t have any issue with new players getting it bundled in.

But if it can’t be unbundled, then just say what it is. It’s a standalone. Saying that you need the core game in order to play the expansion for literally months in advance, and then making the expansion the new standard edition is just unprofessional.

Anyone who is getting a refund because of this is losing access to the account they’ve had for up to 3 months, because apparently that’s just how refunds “work” here. If they don’t want to lose access to everything they’ve bought and/or accomplished in that time period, ANET is making an additional $10-$40 off of those people.

EDIT: A wild kitten appeared!

Palador.2170:

Coulter.2315:

I would be upset, as would everyone who has posted on these forums making any argument, if Guild Wars suffered because of something so small. Moral duty doesn’t need to feature, just desire to keep something important to us in a good position.

That’s just it though. Some of the people making noise feel that the game is going the wrong way right now, and won’t stay in a good position if it continues.

Honestly, I think this isn’t really just about HoT. It’s about the sale on town clothes shortly before the Wardrobe system was announced. It’s about the changes to the gems/gold transfer, which they were never fully candid about, and never fully reverted. It’s about selling RNG in the gemstore, and a dozen other little things that have worn on people. There is a growing feeling that ANet is simply dishonest with the players. Now people feel like they’re being dishonest again, and they don’t want to let it slide.

Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe that’s not what’s happening. But if it is, then GW2 really isn’t in a good place, and staying quiet won’t fix it.

Oh my GOSH. This. This answer is a thing of beauty. It is rational, and well-stated and so completely true.

Last year undermined so much of my good will. Balance changes and the trait fixes that are incoming have repaired some of that, but certainly not the vast majority.

This is not just about the lack of a character slot, it’s about how ANET has handled themselves in the recent past.

Ykfox.3825:

Okay, I’m confused. How do people seem to know how much content we’re getting when the expansion isn’t even out?

I’ve not been in any of the Beta’s for HoT, but I can’t see them giving access to every single zone anyways.

Nobody does know. That’s kind of the biggest issue. There’s no transparency about what the $50-$100 is buying. Based on what has been shown thus far, I can judge that what we’ve seen is not worth the cost to me. And the lack of a release date is really off-putting.

The OP compared what we know now with what WoW players know in advance about their expansions. As a veteran WoW player, I call shenanigans. It is absolutely incorrect to suggest that we know even a fraction of what WoW players would know only months before the anticipated release date.

The newest set of black lion weapons is always available for a limited time at 1 ticket per weapon. Then the price goes up. (They used to be removed entirely- some of them are now cycled out.)

Keys are a gamble. I’d buy off the trading post, myself.

warbignime.4610:

You guys should compare WoW expansion reveal to HoT, or even ff14 heavensward. Most of MMORPG are vague about their expansion too, there are no weekly live stream about the content neither weekly detailed blog post. Just check wow MoP reveal page, all they did are listed features and a very short portion of the reveal video and that’s pretty much it. How much more do you guys want? Anet won’t tell you every detail neither but that’s the same with every game expansion ever. People are having ridiculous expectations and it bothers me.

There was TONS of information out before Mists of Pandaria. Blizzard may do many things wrong, but transparency is not one of those things. Their patch notes are extremely thorough, and always given in advance. And MoP had the advantage of being the fourth expansion, so the customers knew what to expect from it. Of all the arguments I’ve seen, saying that the information we have about HoT is comparable to what WoW players had for MoP is the most laughable thing out there.

Honestly, at this point, NOBODY can say what Heart of Thorns is actually worth, because there’s not enough information available. There’s not even a release date yet.

On top of that, the whole fiasco with declaring that the base game would be required for the expansion, and then bundling the base game free… I’m not saying that was intentionally malicious, because I don’t believe it was, but it is truly not a good reflection that this company has any sort of cohesion within itself.

But that’s a whole other issue. You can argue many things about Blizzard, but to say that they don’t give out information in advance? Nope.

The last time ANET sold access to something with no timeline attached to it was the infinite continue coin for Super Adventure Box. A lot of people have suggested that the 20 month wait is well within reason based on the (lack of) information given.

So I’m just curious, since there’s not even a vague release estimate attached to Heart of Thorns, as far as I know… at what point would you feel like it’s reasonable to protest a lack of a refund, since you’ve already gotten the glider skin and access to all the beta tests?

Personally, given the precedent set by the infinite continue coin, I’d never buy something without a firm release schedule, as they’ve shown no compunction about walking away with their customers’ money and leaving them with no information for what is very nearly 2 years, at this point.

At what point would you feel like perhaps that money was not well-spent? Two years from now? Five? What’s a reasonable expectation for the release of Heart of Thorns?

I personally don’t believe that what we’ve seen so far warrants the $50 price tag, but even if I did, the company’s history of terrible communication regarding schedules/progression of the content would be enough to give me pause. If the reviews interest me enough after it’s been released, well, it’ll still be there.

Yeah, it’ll blow over. Like the commander tag pricing thing blew over.

Uproller.1849:

Guhracie.3419:

Don’t forget precursor crafting. That’s a feature of the expansion, too.

which should be in the vanilla game 3 years ago, but now they are selling it to us for 50 bucks

Trust me. I’m not defending that decision, nor the price.

Don’t forget precursor crafting. That’s a feature of the expansion, too.

I missed it earlier. There’s no release estimate?

Come ON. They’ve been stringing people along with the infinite continue coin for 20+ months now. That is unassailable evidence that if they don’t give a timeline in advance, they’re perfectly fine walking away with your money for what might be literally years.

I’m not saying this will definitely follow that pattern, but they’re the ones who set that precedent.

Eight Samurai.6840:

So if an existing player buys the ‘core game’ again then shouldn’t we get 5 character slots for buying it again?

This. The price is insulting. Shouldn’t it come with a whole new account key? It’s really shady to say that it includes the core game, and charge veteran players based on that. I usually try to be more measured, but wow.

I know how xpacs work. I played WoW through Pandaria. Didn’t mind shelling out the cash for those. At least they came with character slots. I’ll stick with vanilla and see how this all pans out. Can’t imagine paying more than $25 based on what we’ve seen thus far. Especially not after the disaster that was 2014. Just, no.

Thank you so much for sharing this story. I’m terribly sorry for your loss, and the entire community’s loss, as well. I hope ANET offers some way to commemorate lost loved ones. He sounds like a remarkable person.

Stars.2179:

@Ayrilana, where is it in the article that says “all existing skill points will be converted into shards”?

Old skill points in excess of those earned by leveling and skill challenges will be converted into crafting materials for the Mystic Forge. Items and activities that were previously repeatable sources of skill points will now also provide that same crafting material.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/specializations-part-two-reward-tracks-and-elite-specializations/

Stars.2179:

Which means those 20 skill points will simply disappeared and won’t count toward shards? I might as well use those now? Is that that this implies?

The question still stands. It’s a yes or no question – will those 20 skill points count toward shards? That is the question which is the concern of the article!

Yes. They will be shards. How is this confusing?

Spirit shards will still drop from pvp reward tracks and containers. Every source that previously awarded skill points will now award spirit shards. I’m just disappointed with the name. Djinngots for life!

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Vayne.8563:

There are always changes in MMOs. It’s part of the landscape. Adapting to changes has always been part of the MMO landscape. Sometimes that sucks and sometimes it doesn’t. Your build gets nerfed or your profession gets buffed. Either way, the name of the game is adapting.

I wouldn’t expect a refund.

Actually I think this problem is pretty unique to Anet. At least all the MMO’s i’ve played in the past gear was tied to your class, you didn’t get to pick what kind you wanted.

In WoW for example, if you were playing a healing paladin you got healing paladin gear. There was very little choice in what gear you took. If they changed stats it didn’t matter because you still used healing paladin gear.

Gw2 is unique in that aspect where changes to balance can actually change what gear you wear. Even after 3 years I still haven’t decided if that is something I like or not, I go back and forth depending on the week.

It certainly isn’t “necessary” for them to offer us a one time stat change. I am personally plenty rich enough to just get a new set of armor if I need it. However I do think it would be a nice gesture and get Anet some good will, which imo is something they could really use.

Until they got rid of healing power and it became spell power, which was also used by Ret paladins. Priest healers were suddenly rolling against mages, other priests, warlocks and, at the time, there was no compelling benefit to using your own armor type, so any other healing class could also roll on their cloth pieces.

Then they got rid of mp5 and rolled mana regen into intelligence, further muddying the spell-casting waters.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Aren’t there a couple personal story missions where a near endless stream of whites run by? Could the balm be used in there to farm? That just seems like you would get a bigger bang for your buck, and it could be reset endlessly.

Personal story mobs don’t drop loot anymore.

Fyrebrand.4859:

The new core spec system can’t come soon enough! It will be fun to play around with the new traits, and if they’re doing away with the awful trait-hunting requirements then I can finally play my alts again!

Yes, they are! It sounds like you’ll have to do 65 of the skill challenges to unlock everything, but that’s way better than what we’ve got now, in my opinion.

I’m with Toxsa on this. Anet is notorious for making major changes after getting very broad strokes of feedback. (Just because I’m optimistic that it’s coming in the next update doesn’t mean I’m not me anymore.)

I’m pretty sure they’re saying it’s coming with the next update! I was just on my way in to post about it when I saw this thread!

Maybe it’s the upcoming adventure system.

You should note that at some point this Summer (most likely), skills and traits are going to be completely reworked. I’d advise not sinking any time/gold into the trait system for now. You’ll have all but 5 traits unlocked in PvP anyway. I don’t have feedback for which you should choose, though, but I will say that you’ll level pretty fast, particularly with tomes in PvP.

Welcome back! Your English is quite understandable and perfectly fine.