Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

The game is meant to be played how you want to play the game. That’s how it was meant to be played.

In ANY MMO, there are more and less efficient ways to play. That’s why everyone in every profession basically ends up with the same build.

Here, however, it’s a bit different. Because I don’t go full DPS and yes it takes me longer to clear content and I don’t care. Furthermore, I play with other people who don’t care. Ergo, I can play with any weapons I feel like playing…any armor.

We clear content. We get through everything. And we’re not farmers making runs again and again and again for profit, so efficiency doesn’t trump fun.

The moment you let efficiency trump fun, you’re no longer “playing”.

Will you give me a break?
With your condescending " i know how things are " attitude?

Efficiency IS fun for me. If I do CoF P1 in just a bit over 6 minutes – that’s fun. If it takes longer than 10 or so I’d much rather not have done it at all.
Same for every dungeon. I have fun running dungeons FAST. MELTING BOSSES. Getting that gold in the least amount of time and blasting through content as fast as I can. There are a LOT of people like me.
Stick to your own definition of fun, play the way you want, stop harassing us on the forums.

As a GW1 fan, and a 4 year player of GW1 I’ve got a few things that I dislike about GW2.
A lot of things are done right ( Combat, dodging,visuals) but a lot of them are unpolished or just bad.
Let me explain.

This game lacks solid and interesting LORE. You can argue that the diluted and washed-up Personal story was fun. It was not. I remember cherishing every moment of the Prophecies story line. Not here. I just wanted it over with.

What about Living Story ? A joke really. Is Scarlet supposed to be a substitute for Joko or Dhuum? I think not.

Let’s talk GW1 loyalty – who here doesn’t like Ascalon?
I realize in order to make GW2 work they needed to give the Charr some space and all that but to turn it around 180 degrees and make Ascalonians the bad guys is absurd.
I – to this day cannot stand the charr. I dislike everything about them. The way they turned it around – and now the humans are the evil ones- that’s just pathetic.
“Oh it was always the flame legion, the rest of the charr were great” -give me a break.

We need Guild Halls. We need GvG.
Guild Halls and CAPES were some of the strongest reasons being in a guild in GW1 was so awesome. I don’t understand how they released this game with NO halls. Really.

You know what other stuff we’re lacking here?
FOW!
UW!
Where are these absolutely amazing areas. Imagine them rendered through the GW2 engine. Imagine going back and attempting new challenges in an old and familiar environment. Imagine the joy of exploration for new players.

The atmosphere – where has that gone? GW2’s fun and jokes atmosphere is a stark contrast to the more serious, down to earth GW1. And yes there was fun in GW1 but it was on the sidelines- there if you looked for it.

Where is the challenge? Where are the elite areas that will kick you if you wipe? Where’s the build diversity? Why must I have 5 skills tied to my weapon instead of having a POOL of skills tied to my weapon?

Why is it that as a Warrior I only have 2 viable elite skills? Where’s the skill diversity?

Where are the great armor designs that we loved in GW1? Why haven’t they been brought back? Instead we get terrible Aetherblade skins. Who wears those?
We get TOWN CLOTHES – never seen anyone wear them – instead of new armor / weapon skins. I would be ok with these being in the gem store . really . Just bring something new and awesome for a change.

Where is the party leader option – so i can form and manage my OWN party instead of this votekick. ( I start a party with 1 friend – we pug 3 more – midway through the dungeons pugs kick my friend – how is that alright?)

I would have much more to add but it is late and I am tired.
The bottom line is that as a former GW1 player i feel that GW2 borrows its name, setting, a bit of lore and a very limited vision of what GW1 was.

@Zoltreez.
You personally love helping new players. Other players don’t.
I do it if I have time – but I rarely do. After all I’m playing a game for MY enjoyment – and so is everybody else.
I’m not here to do a job.

Anyone think that maybe different stat combos will have different looks?!

CaptainVanguard.4925:

People need to understand what an elitist is before they can make any claims:
An Elitist is:
- The obnoxious spoiled child you knew from high school with rich parents and a personal swimming pool.
- Someone that thinks everyone else is below them and unworthy of their time.
- Convicted of their own narcissistic tendencies to the point of hyper stupidity, they may even be good at something, but that doesn’t make them likeable.

These people are the bane of mmo gaming in general, not just dungeons, they have absolutely nothing redeemable or positive to contribute in any way or form.

They expect everything to be either too easy or too difficult, the hardcore elitist is the “I am awesome and nobody else can ever hope to reach me” prat, while the casual elitist is the “I want everything on a silver platter” prick.

They must not be mistaken for either casual or hardcore, hardcore’s are pro gamers that have a degree of respect for those less skilled than themselves, so much so they offer help and guidance, build strategies and tips to help build players up.

Casuals are fun goers that don’t really want to be involved in heavy duty challenges (I’m looking at you queens gauntlet) but don’t necessarily think a challenge shouldn’t exist, they just want the option to play it easy or hard at whim.

How does that tie into this?

As the topic says, Elitists are a problem for dungeons, why? Because the casual elitist will never shut up about how nobody gives him freebies while the hardcore elitist will never shut up about how everyone is under geared and less skilled than he is with his 50 fingers of dexterity.

They “are” a bane to development and the founders of “Toxic” communities because they are the ones that will be downright unpleasant and should consequentially by A-net, be thoroughly ignored, since they are the minority nobody actually “likes” and even the “elitists” hate other elitists, making them the worst people in a community to listen to.

Solution:
This topic needs to be listened to, because it represents one of the biggest issues the community faces right now, toxic players that want to down score everyone else but rise themselves up to a point of epicosity.

Not everyone Anet, wants to be a 12% minority that get the end game, and likewise, not everyone wants the game to spoon fed you.

But it would be nice to have the choice to play a dungeon to a scale that allows newbies and the hardcore to have fun either way.

You have understood exactly nothing from the elitist term. Or have chosen to understand what you feel it is.
I am an elitist player – but let me explain to you what that is.

I DO NOT want everything handed to me on a silver platter. Nor do I want the content to be incredibly hard.
What makes me an elitist is the fact that I VALUE MY GAME TIME. That means that whenever I log into the game I want to achieve whatever goal i set for myself that particular day as quickly and painlessly as possible.

It’s not that I don’t have respect for other players – but in all honesty I have a right to choose who to play with.
No – if you’re casual or bad I won’t rant – I will tell you what to do to improve your play style and our run – you have a choice – if you choose not to do it I will choose not to play with you.
It’s not about being a scumbag or anything else. It is about the value of your own time and own resources.
Yes new players should learn – but it is not my job to teach them. Sometime I have the time to tell a newer or worse player what to do and where to be and sometimes I don’t.

Stop thinking elitists want free handouts – we don’t.
Stop thinking we’re here to insult other players that aren’t as good – we don’t.
It’s just that if you can’t play to a certain standard an " elitist " player will simply not want to play with you. Simple as that.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warrior_Elite_Platemail_armor
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Elite_Templar_armor

These need to be put into this game. It’s been a year already!

Heavy armor looks terrible.
And when I say terrible – i mean terrible.
I will get ascended armor because of the stats- but honestly i had ALL my hopes riding with this update – hoping that with the new release of gear a new DECENT set will be out that will look awesome and worth wile to get.
Instead we get this…

Make this :
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warrior_Elite_Platemail_armor
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Elite_Templar_armor

SuLor.2840:

I think simply being able to accept or deny people joining your group as the one who is the leader (made the post) would be sufficient.

So right – but sadly the “anti-elitist” people won’t have that.

Seriously?
All this waiting and we get ONE set? Just ONE type for medium/heavy/light?
And not to mention they look terrible. This needs to be redone.
If that is HEAVY armor i’m a talking cat.
How about this : http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/19457386/images/1339546175810.jpg

Doesn’t it look a tad better?

And then I would never have to run dungeon with actual human beings ever again!

The game looks pretty good graphics wise.
Optimization however is terrible – I bought a high-end machine only to see that it doesn’t really help with GW2 that much.
They should really improve on the texture quality, and DX11 wouldn’t be that bad either.

Mad King > All!

I doubt you can make that? What’s the strat?

+1 since I decided not to do SAB2 my game experience has improved by a lot.
Tet – I haven’t bothered with him either. Will do him one day once the whole overflow thing dies dow.

We need guild halls. They should have been there on day 1.

Beldin.5498:

Not that i’m in favor for a level cap increase, but i just have the feeling that we will get it after everyone has at least a set of ascended armor, and all the MMO Locusts start again to cry that there is nothing to do.

Or of course we will get instanced raids, because so much people now want them as the lesser evil than having Tequatl in the open world, and the next can of gear progression will be opened with that.

I’d have to say NO to a level lincrease.
If there will be nothing to do they have time now to GIVE us things to do, things to strive for and new and exciting challenges not necessarily through gear grind or level increase.

If they do increase the level it won’t be soon. New zones would have to be implemented.

Also – a level increase would nullify all balance of the trait system so I don’t see it happening.

Instead of more levels – they should add more content.
More skins, more pets, more titles, more things to keep us playing without FORCING us to do it.
I’ve literally put a lot of fun things in the game on hold in order to grind cash for the upcoming ascended armor patch.

Cruril Darksbane.2318:

Quillionaire.1063:

At no point did I ever say that Ascended should be removed, or that it’s the scourge of the earth. All I suggest is keeping its desirability and its status as a stepping-stone between exotic and legendary items without upsetting the stat balance.

Speaking of stats, if the stats are so marginal that it truly doesn’t matter in terms of balance, then why are people so adamant keeping the improved stats? It’s still a better tier than exotic no matter what because of infusion slots, and stat-swapping would more than make up for any loss of power. It’s still prestigious and desirable, which was the entire point to begin with.

We can have item progression without stats, it’s not black-and-white.

Again the developers have said countless times, that a legendary weapon is a statement. Your missing the point entirely, you should at no point be aimming for a legendary weapon because it has slightly better stats. You should aim for it to show off.

Nothing more, nothing less.

But since the game has a form of another of vertical progression the legendary as become more than that.
It’s a one way ticket to BIS city. Get it – you’ve got BIS whatever happens.
Sadly it’s more than a statement about how much you’ve put into the game.

Warrior is by far the most fun for me.
Guardian and thief second.

More GW1 armor skins would be the best thing ever.
Especially for heavy classes.
Also – Check out this skill Icons –
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22On_My_Mark!%22
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Balanced_Stance

That armor skin looks so kitten. We need that in the game!

Healing Signet is fine- If they change it around your idea they will ruin it. The whole concept is that you don’t have to spec for it and it will still give you a decent heal option.
Poison wrecks it – it is balanced.

Aberrant.6749:

Harper.4173:

I lied.

You shouldn’t do that, it’s dangerous. Some times this happens when you do.

Got carried away – a lot of people i feel have been trolling me in this thread. Reading back it IS the only way I can explain how some people can type in the things that they’ve chosen to support.

With the amount of backlash ascended gear got – I doubt we’ll be seeing any more vertical gear grind any time soon.
It might be a year or more – possibly never. I doubt that new tiers will be added. My bet is that new infusions will be what we’ll be going for next – but that’s extremely long term.

Anet already pushed the player base with ascended – and although many weren’t happy most stuck around and got it. The situation is fragile right now – push more vertical progression onto the players and most people myself included will say " This far, no further" and quit.
They know that and won’t do it.

Aberrant.6749:

Harper.4173:

Aberrant.6749:

Harper.4173:

Evans.6347:

To be honest, my experiences with the tool over the last 2 days have been all but pleasant. I’ve been running AC for months now, saving up for my legendary, but the groups that were made by the LFG website were of such much better quality than what we get now.

And before you call me an elitist, I spent over 2 hours for path 1 and 2 with “experienced speed groups” in there yesterday, being mister nice guy, desperately trying to explain simple basic strategies and common problems.

In the end some just didn’t understand me, or didn’t bother to try. I’ve always been a fervent opposer of level or class discrimination in dungeons, but the arrogant, unwilling to adapt players that don’t even understand the most basic principles of their profession, which I’ve been bunched up with the last couple of days have made it really hard for me to stand by my principles.

The way I deal with these groups is that whenever I start a dungeon I’m the instance owner.
I’ve had dozens of groups like these – I tell them how to improve their game – get the usual " gtfo i’ll play how I want ". I’ll wait – not say anything then at the end – before the boss i remind them that they should improve their game and leave the instance.
Oddly enough it does give a feeling of satisfaction.

That’s griefing. You’re doing it just to be mean to other players. Had you left early on, then whatever that’s your choice. Waiting until the last boss then leaving… that’s not cool.

It is not griefing.
I didn’t kick anybody – i left.
If they can choose not to take advice, be stubborn and insult me – i can choose to leave later rather than sooner.
I’m playing the game the way I want. There’s no griefing. By your definition everything could be considered griefing.
If i tell them not to aggro the boss until we’re set up and they don’t do it and go ahead and aggro – is that griefing?
No – it’s bads being bad.
Is me leaving near the end griefing? No – it’s me being fed up.

And another thing – i’ve stated before but people don’t seem to get it – looking at you Lonesamurai.
AP means TIME SPENT IN GAME. it does not equal skill BUT it means you obviously care enough about the game to have farmed that AP.
That means there are higher chances that you’ll care enough about your time to bring a better build, to have learned when to dodge and to know the encounters.
It’s not perfect but it works.

I know that you know that leaving when you’re the one that started the dungeon boots everyone. You make sure that you’re the instance owner specifically so you can do this. That’s why waited to to it at the last boss it brought you that satisfaction (if you were rage quitting you wouldn’t be satisfied). You’re griefing. If some one recorded you it would probably get you banned… especially now that you’ve posted this in the forums.

SneakyTouchy.6043:

I was so excited when this tool arrived. I thought I no longer have to alt tab to check gw2lfg.

But to my disappointment, every group I make or get into fills with very low levels and inappropriate classes, even if my descriptions clearly says 80’s only with experience.

I am 100% for exclusion tools. These individuals who either troll or unknowingly try to get in over their heads are wasting both their time and mine.

Since there are no methods of exclusion, I am left with the only choice to leave the party or vote kick. For adequate party formation, I now have to spend an extra 20-60 minutes of my time dropping over and over again as these low levels (who ignore the requirement messages) continue to flood in. For some reason, this was not as serious of a problem using the old gw2lfg site.

I want to be able to see the level/class of the request and then be able to deny it.

I want to be able to kick people from a group I started.

If this is a problem for anyone then the only thing I have to say to that is grow up. Higher tier games and serious players exclude the less serious because it interferes with good game play. If you want the right to troll, and are granted that right by Anet, I will no longer support this game because I seek a better experience.

You can report those players if they continue to join your group after you boot them (it’s harassment according to the dev preview of the LFG tools)… but how this is now is just going to make both sides resent the other even more.

@ the anti-filter people… what if we were only able to filter things a little bit would the casuals be ok with that? Say for example requiring at least rare gear (since dungeons are scaled for rare armor)?

I lied.

Because the majority of the players who aren’t running zerker are hating on the minority that are. Because we’re getting content done faster and they just can’t stand that their full PVT groups aren’t just as good.

You can’t undo ascended.
A great deal of the player base has invested time and resources into this gear.
A lot of players have left because of its introduction. Those players aren’t coming back.
The way i see it – whoever was going to leave because of it has done it already – when they announced it or immediately after when we were all grinding for ascended rings in FOTM.
Whoever is left is staying – regardless of ascended. Those who leave now just as the last bits ( armor ) are being added in are a very small fraction who I don’t honestly think the devs care about.

They’ve gone all-in with this one and honestly I think they’ve won.
They’ve kept players engaged and playing when otherwise the end-game content would have been burned out long ago.
I don’t think I would still be touching dungeons if I didn’t need gold for my ascended.

maddoctor.2738:

It’s fairly simple.
The devs need to ask themselves why is Berserker NOT the best choice in sPVP, at least not for all professions, while in PVE everyone is “advised” by the pros to use Berserker?

The best answer I can give is because of Attack Speed / Damage.

PVE is full of very very slow attacks that are easily blocked/dodged/blinded but deal an insane amount of damage.

On the other hand, PVP is full of lots of faster attacks, even a Burst Thief kills with a series of high damaging attacks, it’s never a 1-shot KO. It’s always a chain, so blocks/blinds/evades are NOT such life savers like in PVE.

So, my EASY proposal to make Berserker builds less viable in PVE? Reduce mob damage by a small amount, reduce mob hit points considerably and increase, to a great extend, mob attack speed to match player attack speeds.

For example, make the Battle for Claw Island remind players of a big zerg vs zerg fight in WvW, instead of the horrible fight it is now. Now you get 2 huge Armies standing still, exchanging blows every 5 seconds, rinse repeat until one side is down. It’s the most boring fight ever.

More attack speed makes dodges less of a life saver, gives mobs more consistent dps that players must counter, Toughness is a great counter to consistent dps, Vitality counters burst and condition damage. Healing becomes way more effective too.

See how amazing condition builds are in PVP (Rangers/Necromancers?) or how great the control builds are (stun-lock Warriors anyone?). It’s not the stats, the builds, or the professions/skills themselves that are badly designed and need a change. It’s PVE in GENERAL that needs a major overhaul, including mobs/mob-only abilities (Defiant)/dungeons/bosses etc

tl;dr Leave the actual skills/traits as they are now, leave the stat combinations as they are now and change drastically the mechanics in the fights themselves. That’s how you “counter” Berserkers.

The thing most people in this thread are going on about is how to make other sets viable – not how to make zerkers less viable.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – doing what you suggest will just make Knight’s the new berserker.

Given the amount of hypocrisy and lack of understanding of basic concepts in this thread I’ve come to the conclusion that there’s nothing more I can do. Those who will see reason will do so – others will not.
I give up. I will play the game the way I will – and others will do it the way they will.
I will not be using this tool – since for me and many like me it’s more trouble than it’s worth.

AntiGw.9367:

Harper.4173:

Aberrant.6749:

Harper.4173:

Evans.6347:

To be honest, my experiences with the tool over the last 2 days have been all but pleasant. I’ve been running AC for months now, saving up for my legendary, but the groups that were made by the LFG website were of such much better quality than what we get now.

And before you call me an elitist, I spent over 2 hours for path 1 and 2 with “experienced speed groups” in there yesterday, being mister nice guy, desperately trying to explain simple basic strategies and common problems.

In the end some just didn’t understand me, or didn’t bother to try. I’ve always been a fervent opposer of level or class discrimination in dungeons, but the arrogant, unwilling to adapt players that don’t even understand the most basic principles of their profession, which I’ve been bunched up with the last couple of days have made it really hard for me to stand by my principles.

The way I deal with these groups is that whenever I start a dungeon I’m the instance owner.
I’ve had dozens of groups like these – I tell them how to improve their game – get the usual " gtfo i’ll play how I want ". I’ll wait – not say anything then at the end – before the boss i remind them that they should improve their game and leave the instance.
Oddly enough it does give a feeling of satisfaction.

That’s griefing. You’re doing it just to be mean to other players. Had you left early on, then whatever that’s your choice. Waiting until the last boss then leaving… that’s not cool.

It is not griefing.
I didn’t kick anybody – i left.
If they can choose not to take advice, be stubborn and insult me – i can choose to leave later rather than sooner.
I’m playing the game the way I want. There’s no griefing. By your definition everything could be considered griefing.
If i tell them not to aggro the boss until we’re set up and they don’t do it and go ahead and aggro – is that griefing?
No – it’s bads being bad.

No, that’s definitely griefing. If any of them records that on video, you’re toast.

So ragequitting is now griefing.
By this logic ragequitting any event or activity is now griefing.

Eurhetemec.9052:

Harper.4173:

How about you people respect OUR rights to not play with you if we so choose to?

You have that right. It is being respected. You can always leave a group you don’t want to be in.

What you are demanding is the opposite of that the right to exclude, not the right to leave.

So if i make a group – and 3 people who don’t fit my criteria join, I’m supposed to leave now?

Why do we even have to have this situation in the first place?

marnick.4305:

haviz.1340:

SamSerious.9624:

LFG tool is simply amazing. I’d prefer ANet not to add any more filter option. People who wants to filter casual players can go somewhere else to find their kind of players but for average players it is perfect.

To give an example, I could never find lvl1 fractal group. Without LFG tool I’d be waiting hours even days to find a group. With LFG, I was able to find a group in less than a minute during morning server time and not only that we did level 1 to 3 at stretch without any problem. People were so helpful and understanding. I was also able to find story mode dungeon group who did not curse for not skipping cutscene.

LFG tool is designed for such players and should be kept as it is. One of the reasons I quit GW2 was because of difficulty in finding casual players to do contents with. Now I can stick around because of LFG tool

How does pooling casuals with casuals contradict your utopian vision?

Because, on the internet, unless strictly moderated, such tools become as good as the worst part of the community. WoW went downhill due to gearscore and other elitist nonsense. Many casuals fled to this game because the community here is intended to be friendly. I hope the worst and the scrub of the internet is handled on the LFG tool. I’m talking about elitists, obviously, those who have no place in this game unless they respect the rights of the casuals.

Good one – I’m casual and have rights that should be respected.
You’re a hardcore elitist – you have no rights.
How about you people respect OUR rights to not play with you if we so choose to?

Aberrant.6749:

Harper.4173:

Evans.6347:

To be honest, my experiences with the tool over the last 2 days have been all but pleasant. I’ve been running AC for months now, saving up for my legendary, but the groups that were made by the LFG website were of such much better quality than what we get now.

And before you call me an elitist, I spent over 2 hours for path 1 and 2 with “experienced speed groups” in there yesterday, being mister nice guy, desperately trying to explain simple basic strategies and common problems.

In the end some just didn’t understand me, or didn’t bother to try. I’ve always been a fervent opposer of level or class discrimination in dungeons, but the arrogant, unwilling to adapt players that don’t even understand the most basic principles of their profession, which I’ve been bunched up with the last couple of days have made it really hard for me to stand by my principles.

The way I deal with these groups is that whenever I start a dungeon I’m the instance owner.
I’ve had dozens of groups like these – I tell them how to improve their game – get the usual " gtfo i’ll play how I want ". I’ll wait – not say anything then at the end – before the boss i remind them that they should improve their game and leave the instance.
Oddly enough it does give a feeling of satisfaction.

That’s griefing. You’re doing it just to be mean to other players. Had you left early on, then whatever that’s your choice. Waiting until the last boss then leaving… that’s not cool.

It is not griefing.
I didn’t kick anybody – i left.
If they can choose not to take advice, be stubborn and insult me – i can choose to leave later rather than sooner.
I’m playing the game the way I want. There’s no griefing. By your definition everything could be considered griefing.
If i tell them not to aggro the boss until we’re set up and they don’t do it and go ahead and aggro – is that griefing?
No – it’s bads being bad.
Is me leaving near the end griefing? No – it’s me being fed up.

And another thing – i’ve stated before but people don’t seem to get it – looking at you Lonesamurai.
AP means TIME SPENT IN GAME. it does not equal skill BUT it means you obviously care enough about the game to have farmed that AP.
That means there are higher chances that you’ll care enough about your time to bring a better build, to have learned when to dodge and to know the encounters.
It’s not perfect but it works.

Evans.6347:

To be honest, my experiences with the tool over the last 2 days have been all but pleasant. I’ve been running AC for months now, saving up for my legendary, but the groups that were made by the LFG website were of such much better quality than what we get now.

And before you call me an elitist, I spent over 2 hours for path 1 and 2 with “experienced speed groups” in there yesterday, being mister nice guy, desperately trying to explain simple basic strategies and common problems.

In the end some just didn’t understand me, or didn’t bother to try. I’ve always been a fervent opposer of level or class discrimination in dungeons, but the arrogant, unwilling to adapt players that don’t even understand the most basic principles of their profession, which I’ve been bunched up with the last couple of days have made it really hard for me to stand by my principles.

The way I deal with these groups is that whenever I start a dungeon I’m the instance owner.
I’ve had dozens of groups like these – I tell them how to improve their game – get the usual " gtfo i’ll play how I want ". I’ll wait – not say anything then at the end – before the boss i remind them that they should improve their game and leave the instance.
Oddly enough it does give a feeling of satisfaction.

AntiGw.9367:

Aberrant.6749:

I’m still seeing a lot of players that don’t understand that “play how you want” is a two way street. Hypocritical posts everywhere.

“Playing how you want” does not include being abusive towards other players.

Also, it does not mean that your particular playstyle is worth including in the LFG (see Mr. Sparkles groups). Especially if it’s detrimental to the healthy function of the rest of the tool (see gearcheck/APcheck groups).

The #1 priority of the tool is doing the dungeon. Not sitting in LA for 15 minutes waiting for the conformist elite team. It’s about going in asap, possibly wiping for those same 15 minutes, while doing the kittening dungeon.

Choosing to dissociate myself from them does not i’m being abusive in any way.
That’s what you fail to understand. The fact that I want to have nothing to do with certain players does not mean I’m abusing them.

I like how you know what the point of the dungeons is. News flash – each aspect of the game has different meanings for those who play.
While for you and others like you the dungeons are there to explore and go " oh gasp a dungeon troll in AC – how exciting" the same dungeons are used by the majority of the player base to farm. Yes farm.
So don’t go around saying things that are based only on your ideas.

Missing dodges and wiping at bosses is not learned through a couple of runs if there’s no incentive to learn. And with the current system there isn’t and won’t be.

Also regarding the 15 minutes wait vs 15 minutes wipe. If I had to choose I’d rather wait for the right team and the right people rather than wing it with sub-par teammates. Why ? because wiping and watching people fail at things that I consider simple annoys me and I’d rather spare myself the experience. And I’d rather spare them the experience of being kicked and replaced.

So yes- give us filters because without them I feel there’s no going around kicking and generating tension in an already tense situation.

All in all – the situation stands.
Until the game is improved on an AI and Encounter level we won’t be seeing any change.
Since CC is useless against bosses and their difficulty comes form silly 1-hit-ko attacks and huge health pools there’s no reason to diversify builds.

What people aren’t getting ( except for one poster above – grats Lokki ) is that your main gripe isn’t with Berserker’s.

The main problem a few of the players are trying to express here is that a certain set – let’s call it set A is overused. And they would like to see more variability.
With the game’s current state set A happens to be Berserker’s.

IF this set – set A – is nerfed – people won’t just migrate to sets B C and D with other letters thrown in as well. No.
Set A is popular because it is OPTIMAL – no matter how you change the game – how you nerf sets and change encounters – one set will ALWAYS be optimal.
And people will – sooner or later all wear that set.
You cannot have variety since players want maximum effectiveness. Once you take zerker out of the equation the gap will be filled by another set – which will be considered the " optimal – go to set " – and all / most people will wear that.

Conclusion : No matter how you look at it – or what you do – nerfing zerker ( which is fine by the way ) will just switch the " best used " set to something else. And in a few months we’ll have " nerf knight’s " or " Valkyre overused? " threads.

The game is what’s going on here – and although there are many ways to play – for each class there will ALWAYS be one optimal way – and people will sooner or later migrate to that.

The daily token system is great – sadly the whole purpose of the daily thing – as stated by other before is to get you to play EVERY day.
Anet wants to keep you coming back day after day after day. And this is how they do it.

Under the pretense of " we don’t want the gap between casual and hardcore to be too large " they’re forcing all of us into a " play on our terms " loop.
And you can argue and say you don’t have to – that’s right – but if you don’t you’ll be left behind – and what MMO player wants that?
Let’s face it – dailies are a chore.
Whenever I log on I get them out of the way first. Same goes for friends – I don’t know how many times I’ve asked friends for a run of some dungeon and the answer was " Sure – let me just get this daily thing done " – nobody likes it – but we all do it.
Because if you’ve missed it you can’t go back and redo it – and that’s a strong psychological motivator.
I have over 250 laurels – full ascended – more than I could need ( since i only play one main) but guess what – I still feel that need to get my daily laurel every day.
It’s hardwired into me and Anet are taking full advantage of it.

AntiGw.9367:

Harper.4173:

If my attitude of setting the bar high is keeping bads away from my dungeons runs – I’m not exactly sad about it.

People are staying away from dungeons not because of the " elitists " but because of bad pug runs that they refuse to learn from.
Instead of going " oh – i probably suck at this dungeon – my party told me so and kicked me – i better man up and get better at whatever I’m not doing good" all this anti-elitist attitude has made them go " oh you’re telling me what to do – kitten you elitist scum, i’ll play how I want"

And that’s why people aren’t improving.
Elitism – Exclusion from runs or content – the primary selective ppressor is being eliminated – so what’s lelf to force them to change?

There is nothing to improve or get better at. There is no content that requires any particular gear or stat or skill/trait combination. All content is designed to be completed by anyone.

Elitists want people to use particular gear/stat/trait combinations to suit their personal convenience (faster runs).

You are asking for a feature that supports what makes no sense to support – there’s no content that would require what you are asking for.

There’s nothing to get better at?
How about missing half their dodges.
How about Arah being considered hard.
How about wiping 2-3 times at bosses like P1 AC or P2 AC – or even worse – P3 Sorrow’s.

Improving might not mean wearing the gear us elitists want – but it might mean doing the dungeons faster, being able to complete MORE dungeons and doing it with a higher success rate and lower boss wipe rate.
All these would be promoted if people were being forced in a sense to step up their game.

What’s going to start giving them a challenge? Farm events like Scarlet Invasions?

The dungeons right now aren’t even a challenge to a good player – but to the inexperienced they are a terrible trap.
I’ve seen people who not only fail to dodge or use proper game mechanics but who don’t even know the dungeons or what to do.

They NEED to improve. If you think that there’s no need to improve from the bads and newbies – you’re off by far.

Also – what am I asking for?

A chance to be able to set an AP limit to those to join my parties.
A chance to set a class restriction on who joins ( say we have 2 light, 1 heavy, 1 medium and need a guardian) – i should be able to set a filter so that I only get joins by guardians. Or only they could join.
A chance to be able to kick people who failed to take into account the inclusion criteria for my party without queue consequences or other problems.
A chance to play the game and enjoy it on my own terms – far from those who take away my fun and wear away at my patience.

Eurhetemec.9052:

Harper.4173:

Maybe it’ll make for smoother runs and provide incentive for players to get better.

How would it possibly do that if you separate the best players off from everyone else? Without the good players to teach the rest, things will not change, don’t be silly.

Harper.4173:

Here’s the deal – you’re right – elite players know other elite playes – but I’m not here to sync schedules.

The tool should provide the option for me to create a group based on certain criteria- those who can qualify get in and we start a smooth and well organized run.

My schedule is erratic. I’m not here to start organizing things. I want to get in – get the stuff done as fast as possible with as little effort as possible and get out.

There’s no reason that the tool should do that. The devs aren’t here to cater to your erratic schedule ahead of making the tool work for the majority of their playerbase. If you want to get in and get things done, you should do it the way you always have been.

You simply cannot go on about the value of hard work and then refuse to do what is actual pretty minimal organising. Set up a website for elites looking for elites if you care that much! Or wait for someone else to do it. But don’t demand the devs make a tool exclusionary to support what is probably 1-5% of their playerbase (some of whom CROW about never having bought gems!).

Harper.4173:

As far as being a burden for the devs – check again.
I’m playing THEIR game, I’ve bought it – I’ve spent a lot of cash on gems – I’m not being a burden – I’m giving them money and time despite their best efforts to kick me off.

It’s not likely you spend more money than casual players, though – in fact every other cash-shop MMO (f2p or b2p) that isn’t a Korean grinder suggests casual players and mid-casuals are the key spenders. I’m sure that’s especially true here, where gold can, eventually, buy anything in the cash shop.

Did you read my short story about how i did FoWSC for the first time?
You don’t NEED to be in a run to learn a run. Just watching it/ figuring it out is enough.

You can improve a lot even without someone who’s better holding your hand.
This game was made for the average individual – you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to get better at it. Just work and keep at it.

Regarding my schedule – i agree – maybe that’s my business but the tool wasn’t for me. it was to facilitate a certain convenient way of grouping up.

Also regarding cash – I’ve dumped a lot more than the average casual – I can assure you – since I take the game very seriously – and have need of a lot of gold.

If my attitude of setting the bar high is keeping bads away from my dungeons runs – I’m not exactly sad about it.

People are staying away from dungeons not because of the " elitists " but because of bad pug runs that they refuse to learn from.
Instead of going " oh – i probably suck at this dungeon – my party told me so and kicked me – i better man up and get better at whatever I’m not doing good" all this anti-elitist attitude has made them go " oh you’re telling me what to do – kitten you elitist scum, i’ll play how I want"

And that’s why people aren’t improving.
Elitism – Exclusion from runs or content – the primary selective ppressor is being eliminated – so what’s lelf to force them to change?

AntiGw.9367:

Harper.4173:

You’re saying the game should basically oppose our way of playing just because it’s different than yours. Or because it doesn’t adhere to your ideas and policies about what the game should be like.

No, I’m saying this because I’ve seen several games die, and whose deaths were highly accelerated, if not outright caused, by elitism that was left unchecked.

In case you haven’t noticed elitism is this game’s smallest problem.

Check :

Gear Grind.
Daily Grind.
Time Gating.
No expansions.
Living story adding temporary content.
Zergfesting everything instead of any challenging permanent content being added in the game.
Diluted lore.

These are this game’s real problems.
Elitism – is somewhere at the bottom of the list – and honestly it isn’t a problem.
When faced with an elitist exclusion a player can go one of two ways :

1)Cry and leave.
2)Improve himself and become part of the community that’s being “elite”.

Do we really need people in category 1? If you’re going to play the game at the same skill ( experience/ competence) level you were playing when you first started – why are you even here?

Eurhetemec.9052:

Harper.4173:

I put in effort and time – and I improved my game – by myself – not by being a burden to others.

Sure, but you can’t expect the in-game tool to automagically select the people you want, especially as there is no way to tell from someone’s gear, achievements, build, or anything else, that they are competent (well, short of a handful of specific achievements that even great players may have).

As you say yourself, the game does not force people to improve – so you get terrible players with 6k achievements, full zerker, etc. etc.

Actually there is ONE thing which requires good play – deep Fractals – you’re not going to get to Fractal level 50 or whatever without learning to play – but I’m guessing you want super-elite players to speedrun relatively easy content, not to do hard stuff.

I mean, what’s funny here is, we have people like you whinging about ultra-elite and awesome you are (which I’m sure is true), and how much “hard work” you have put in and how people shouldn’t shy away from this “hard work”, yet you are asking for a tool to do your work for you.

Which is pretty ironic.

Surely the tool should be aimed at the sort of casual player who isn’t competent or connected enough to form l337 speedrun groups, no?

I mean, I’ve played at an extremely elite level in a lot of games – DAoC and WoW particularly, whereas I was at the cutting edge PvP-wise and PvE-wise at various times (respectively). I’m a bit older and saner now, so I’m not into that, but if there is one thing I know, it’s that truly elite players know other elite players, and can form groups relatively easily. They don’t need a tool to do it for them. You only need a tool when you are casual or getting started.

So let’s be real – the tool does not need to support exclusion. The only thing I could see being reasonable would be, for Fractals only, a minimum Fractal Level option.

If you just want to speedrun COF for gold and exclude baddies, well, you shouldn’t need a special tool for that. Just do the work and stop being a burden on the devs, as you might say!

Someone’s gear and AP number – are a fairly decent indicator of competence.
People didn’t just suck their way to 8k AP. They must be doing something right.
If nothing else it gives an indication of how much time they are willing to put in the game and how serious they take it.
In lack of anything else I’ll take this.
I’d rather risk taking an 8k AP player with me in a run than risk taking a 2k AP player with me.
The 8k AP tell a lot – he has put a lot of time in the game, he’s been playing for a long time – both of which mean there’s a higher chance he knows what he’s doing.

As to what I want the super-elite players in terms of content.
I don’t divide the content into hard and easy. I divide it into profitable and non-profitable. And I want good players for the profitable part. The other part I don’t even do.

The tool should cater to the casuals- sure – but give non-casual players options. Maybe it’ll make for smoother runs and provide incentive for players to get better.

Here’s the deal – you’re right – elite players know other elite playes – but I’m not here to sync schedules.
The tool should provide the option for me to create a group based on certain criteria- those who can qualify get in and we start a smooth and well organized run.
My schedule is erratic. I’m not here to start organizing things. I want to get in – get the stuff done as fast as possible with as little effort as possible and get out.

As far as being a burden for the devs – check again.
I’m playing THEIR game, I’ve bought it – I’ve spent a lot of cash on gems – I’m not being a burden – I’m giving them money and time despite their best efforts to kick me off.

AntiGw.9367:

Shiren.9532:

The lfg tool is full of people like you, the only way that will change is if you let the elitists intimidate you from participating.

The game itself needs to actively stomp elitism. Expecting people to not be discouraged from participating is not going to work, like it hasn’t been working for the last year, so many people don’t even bother to do dungeons because they were given the impression that they are not good enough.

Even all those “go watch youtube” types are doing more damage than helping, although some of them are genuinely trying to be helpful.

No – the game doesn’t need to stomp out anything actively.
Elitism is a trend that came to be because certain parts of the player base want to play a certain way.
You’re saying the game should basically oppose our way of playing just because it’s different than yours. Or because it doesn’t adhere to your ideas and policies about what the game should be like.

This is wrong and it is silly. Each player that has payed money for this game has the right to play it any way he wants.
You want to be a newbie cuddler? go ahead. I want to be an elitist scumbag – that’s my choice and nobody ( no LFG tool or anything ) can take it away from me.

I like the " were given the impression they are not good enough " – like it’s a lie.
THEY ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. At least not for me.
If they can’t play their class, can’t dodge, can’t figure out CORE GAME MECHANICS then yes – they are not good enough and I’m not going to spend MY time improving their gaming experience.

If I’m supposed to spend ( waste) my time improving other people’s in game experience then how come nobody has bothered to improve mine?
I keep checking my inbox for people sending me gold and exotics but nobody’s doing it.

As the poster above has said – this game has a lot of players that are rather bad and doesn’t force them to improve – so they’ll stay at their current level.
Just because i’m better at the game ( more experienced, have better reflexes- whatever you want to call it ) doesn’t mean I’m supposed to babysit them, spoon-feed them and take care of them until they mature into a decent player.
No. You want to be decent? You have to put in time, effort and dedication.

- Side story -

In GW1 – looking to make a little cash I wanted to start going on FoWSC runs. Nobody I knew did them and I had nobody to teach me. So did I cry about it on the forums or force some of the " elitist" parties running it to take me along? No.

I researched the build and got the skills and gear I needed. I spent around 1-2 hours looking at youtube videos until i understood what the role i was going to play did and where I needed to be at all times.
I then joined a run and – SURPRISE – all that time I put into preparing paid off – it worked without a hitch and that was it.
I put in effort and time – and I improved my game – by myself – not by being a burden to others.

This boss in my opinion really shows off the problems the " Open World " approach has.
Without a system put in place to restrict and filter through the people participating in this encounter – the whole thing is a mess.
People akitteng and not even going to wp when they are dead are taking slots from people who would actually love to participate and give it their best.

The issue here is that as a whole – the tet fight is too dependent on the actions of others. This should have been an instance.

Once i kill him once I’m never doing him again. Too much hassle to get to FIGHT him on a server and not an overflow.

I agree – this event needs to be made more accessible – not easier.
Some sort of queue system has to be put in place. Tired of trying overflows. Can’t even get in on main..

Sadly I hate this too – i feel i have to log on every day just to keep up.
I can’t just power-through in the weekend to catch up on stuff i didn’t do over the week. It’s becoming frustrating and repetitive. Getting tired of all this nonsense.

I just want to get Ascended armor done so I don’t have to do daily nothing for at least a year or so.

Sadly I have to agree with the OP.
Back in the days of GW1 I couldn’t care less about titles or in game cash. I played for the fun of it – made cash playing and got what i wanted/needed.

Sadly today – with each new patch of LS I feel the pressure of getting those achievements, the need to grind the new farm and all that is because of the nature of the end-game gear.

1) Time gated – you HAVE to do it today. You have to do the LS before it’s gone. You have to do it NOW. On the game’s terms – not yours.

2)Extremely expensive- check the amount of grind that goes into a legendary – unless you min/max fast farm APs and cash – you’ll get it in maybe a year or more.

Sadly this game changed me as a player. I used to play for fun – now I have fun playing for profit.

Sadly this is a real problem. Even groups of mobs are trivial and silly. The game really needs a more GW1 approach to AI and mostly everything.
Sadly they won’t do it.

This game needs more dungeons – yes – more variety – new permanent dungeon content added into the game.

Do the dungeons need to be harder ? no.
For an experienced well geared level 80 player that’s done the runs dozens of times ( myself included ) the content provided by our current dungeons appears trivial at best BUT – for new players that don’t have the gear or the level it is by no means easy.
Go back to AC – with a party of players wearing yellows and see what happens.

This game desperately needs something GW1 had – Hard Mode.
Same dungeons – new spin on things. Hell – they’ve even done it in GW2 with SAB’s Tribulation Mode.
Why can’t dungeons have that? A mode that’s FAR more rewarding but that requires absolute perfection in planning and execution. To those who nail it down – rewards in from of gold – achievements and bragging rights would keep the incentive to do it up. Maybe unique tokens for unique skins. Maybe unique drops.

The possibilities are many – and all that without disturbing or changing the game’s current content.

Also

I like dungeons, I just don’t care for instanced dungeons all that much. They need to make some public dungeons, real dungeons, dark and deep, quite hard and not meant for solo players. Huge underground complexes with no way to fast travel though it all.

This is a great idea. Bigger dungeons – scarier places – places you need your teammates to survive – sort of like Arah but bigger and scarier. And deadlier.

AntiGw.9367:

moiraine.2753:

AntiGw,
Of course it is related.I will repeat what i already said once.

The problem is that the playerbase doesn’t bloody read the descripntion of the post.When i put a specific requirements in my post i expect of people 2 things:
1st to read what is written
2nd to do what is wanted from the poster
When neither of those 2 things is not met then why are people joining the group???
It’s actually quite simple.
Follow the bloody text.

1st, you can kick people that really did join an irrelevant group (like joining the wrong dungeon or something).

2nd, a lot of content is designed for a very broad range of skill and gear, so it’s not right to add a restriction to the tool itself. You may want someone with 45 AR, but what if the content can be handled with 30, just with some additional challenge?

Do you have the right to only accept people with 45AR? Yes.

Do you have the right to have a tool that lets you exclude anyone under 45AR? kitten no.

The tool, as explained by devs, lets you find people who can complete a dungeon. That means, as interpreted by me, that nobody under level 30 can join AC. People in white gear with 0 achievement points can still complete it when they hit level 30, so it wouldn’t make sense to exclude them.

The tool doesn’t let you enforce arbitrary standards that let you make faster runs to the detriment of the community. Note the “detriment” part.

Why would anyone want more challenge? The content can be challenging the first few times you play through. After that it’s just a drag and a chore. You do it for loot. Why would I want to get loot slower?

Conncept.7638:

champ.7021:

Conncept.7638:

Well that makes you an exception, not a rule. Did you even read the opening post? He wouldn’t accept anyone below a certain amount of AP, sorry but that is elitism. Don’t know why you are defending it if you clearly don’t agree with it.

Why do you care if some people want to run with only experienced people. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with that and if you are new, as i said before, join a guild and ask there or join one of the groups that say anyone welcome and have fun with those 1 hr ac p3 runs. The only thing i disagree with is the AP requirement because that just shows people enjoy doing the faceroll LS content.

Because every person has a duty to be understanding to every other person. I was taught this since I was born, and am told it used to be common knowledge. People need help, you help them, because you are their equal and partner and they are yours, when you help anyone the world improves and you have helped everyone, including yourself. If you refuse that, it is because you set yourself above those who need help. Why that idea seems to be not only alien these days, but maligned with extreme prejudice is beyond me.

Your whole concepts are so wrong I don’t even want to start.
Nobody has a duty to anyone. Our society – in real life – might impose certain obligations and norms but in a game – that’s just it – anyone can play the way they want.

You want to play your terrible stat-combo-trait ele? Fine. Your choice and you can play the way you want.
I want to play so far away from you and people like you I hardly even see you? My choice and that’s also fine. You can’t and won’t force yourself into my parties.

I’ve stated it before – my time is important to me. I’m playing the game for myself – not for every new and inexperienced player. I’m not some tutorial A-net employee.

@Olba- god forbid the new players go through the paces of actually learning how to improve their game.
Instead of them grouping up with people of similar skill – and failing -and trying again and failing – just because the “elitist” part of the player base is better at the dungeons ( due to hundreds of hours of work) we should now just carry them along and give them the EZmode version of the game.
Let me think about it – absolutely not.

This discussion is pointless – it is apparent the non-elitists are only interested in promoting their idea of forced community.
They’re basically forcing you to play with them and moreover calling it ok EVEN THOUGH you don’t want to have anything to do with them.

Why? Because that’s how they feel.