Guild Wars 2

thiagoperne.7340:

Tearofsoul.9843:

thiagoperne.7340:

LoL at those jumping in saying that is gonna quit if doesn’t fix it, that’s hilarious!

First, if you and your friends and the entire guild leaves the game they won’t even notice you, it would actually help others, less bad players and shorter queues.

Second, good luck finding a game better then this. Or even close to it.

I haven’t seen a fanboy for a long long time

Just being realistic. And yea Im a fan, but little older for a boy so would be a fanman.

Also since my reply got you buthurt, I can assume you were one of them, poor you.

Funny thing is that some of the players you’re calling “bad” are some of the players reresenting the majority of what realistically are the most talented players in WvW.

BT, for instance, are extremely talented at WvW meta, sieging, open-field combat. They’re also a big guild. They’re also extremely outspoken about how terrible this change has been.

The players you’re going to be losing are the vast swaths of dedicated GOOD players. The bad players aren’t going to know any better.

FractalChaos.6539:

Reslinal.2359:

I play on NA t1 and have been on both the side that tries to use AC in open field battle (with WM) and the side that tries to destroy opposing zerg (with KnT against TW) that uses AC in open field battle. While it adds some elements in open field battle, it is certainly not as game breaking as some people here tries to make it sound. We lost the field battle where we tried to use AC and won the field battle when the opposing side tried to use AC.

That’s probably because using ACs in open field fights is wicked stupid.

Hint; don’t run away from the ACs; get right on top of them. It’s not hard at all.

Until they drop a second one.

FractalChaos.6539:

Silas.8630:

FractalChaos.6539:

blink

…

Really?

A) That’s me dancing in the video as arrow carts barely hurt me. I frapsed that fight.
B) I already mentioned the rams were dropped far too early. It was a bad move. Four people died and the other 20 or so stayed back and lived. 4 people died out of a possible 25. Not exactly a slaughter, is it?
C) The commanders did not “turn tail and run”; they needed supply to build catas and decided to go get some. It’s clearly visible in my chat window; “Ok, gonna resupply and try this again” That’s not a rout; that’s smart.

However, given that you didn’t read my earlier post about the video, given that you didn’t even know it was made by me, and given that you think the attack broke in a panic and ran when it’s quite obvious we didn’t…yeah, you’re kinda clueless.

A) No, I knew full well the video was made by you, that’s why I called you a kitten.
B) It should come as no surprise to anyone at all that if you stay outside the arrow cart range, they won’t do much damage to you. The arrow carts were obviously focusing the gate, and the people who approached the gate popped almost instantly. Just because 20 people stood outside the AC focus doesn’t mean they could have made it past the choke alive.
C) Call it smart if it helps you sleep at night, but 3 commanders showing up to a tower, dropping siege, seeing that siege destroyed, then breaking ranks and leaving the tower with an enormous tail is, by definition, a rout. If the video continued to show you returning with more supply and successfully taking the tower, that would be a different issue…but strangely you didn’t include that part.

Also, I didn’t say you broke in a panic, I said you fled, which you can deny if you’d like, but it’s clearly visible in the video.

The only thing your video showed was that your commanders started a siege woefully unprepared and undersupplied, and your players would rather dance around with 8 supply than build the siege their commander placed. To be honest, the arrow carts had very little to do with it.

1- I am getting hit repeatedly by ACs. Don’t pretend you can’t see it. Even when they do focus on me, I’m able to heal through it quite easily. You’re either lying or intellectually dishonest on this point.

2- Since I feel fairly confident that no arrow cart is going to kill me. I am going to spend the day frapsing videos of me standing in massive arrow cart fire and living. I want to see how you’ll explain away 30 or 40 videos showing exactly the same thing; someone getting wailed on with arrow carts and not dying. Cliffside, Garrison, Hill, Bay, Sunny, 2 arrow carts, six arrow carts., eight arrow carts…..it won’t matter. I won’t die.

I look forward to seeing this.

Oolune.4357:

Aren’t they more likely to be Ruthless if they don’t have any Ruths manning their arrow carts? Because if they have Ruths manning the carts they’re not being RuthLESS.

Ruthful arrowcarts only fire half as much to make up for the double damage. Thank you Ruth!

mekkanic.4759:

[Chest thump]

I was not expecting us to shoot to #4 overall after the first week.

[/Chest thump]

Being a DB native that just recently started incorporating his gameplay time in wvw…im glad that we as a server were able to bring some competitiveness during NA primetime in t2…as it was not as strong as it was while we were in t3 (again, take note that these are just my observations from only 2 weeks of solid wvw gameplay dedication). That being said, this is my first time in t2. I have never fought more fierce competitors as the ones from TC and FA. My hats off to you guys for bringing it.

Tldr…im excited for tonights reset and look forward to fighting alongside you as friends or arrowcarting you to death as foes

May this night’s reset, and the week following, bring many lootbags and badges for all

I don’t think anyone saw it coming, but I think it’s great for you guys. You came out swinging in a big way and made a big difference! Congrats on a win well won.

VOLKON.1290:

Hickeroar.9734:

VOLKON.1290:

Haven’t seen open field combat destroyed to be honest. I’ve seen tower defenses splatter invaders, but not open field stuff. Now, if someone dropping an AC in the open field is indeed “breaking” open field combat then all I can offer to do is slowly shake my head at the dead people that failed to realize there’s a minimum distance for ACs as well.

Try running over 3500 range while crippled and in the middle of a fight. Not gonna happen. You’re gonna be dead LONG before you get out of range.

I’ve also seen tower defenses get splattered by ACs planted outside the walls.

You obviously either don’t play much WvW at all…or your experience is so silo-ed to one type of play that you haven’t experienced the devastating effects of this change.

Hmm… maybe you’re right, maybe I don’t play enough WvW. Maybe I’m also capable of tossing aside conditions, dodging and being mobile in combat, but nah… that’s probably not it. I certainly don’t play enough WvW. Whichever it is, I haven’t seen open field ACs being a problem at all. Makes you wonder if it’s the ACs that are at fault, doesn’t it?

Well, you kinda answered my question. If you don’t see open field ACs in group fights as a problem, then you haven’t faced them.

Either that or you’re just trolling.

VOLKON.1290:

Hickeroar.9734:

VOLKON.1290:

Hickeroar.9734:

Arkard.3970:

Reverse the changes. Don’t try to band-aid some fix, the fact that this change was made in the first place pretty much gives us zero confidence in any type of attempted fix to be remotely successful.

Reverse the changes ASAP. It does not sit well when something as ridiculous as spectator mode bug fixes gets priority over something as game changing as this. It’s only been 2 and 1/2 days and entire guilds have already quit over this.

The annoying thing is that this stuff was balanced. Really well balanced actually… Why mess with an excellent balance like that?

I would give a lot to find out what decision making process was followed when doing this, because it, frankly, doesn’t many any sense.

ACs were too weak, they really were. Rain hurt more than one of them. They should keep the anti-personnel aspects of them intact. Damage reduction against siege, I can see that.

Now… a trainable “Flaming Arrows” that does full damage against siege (and burns people)… this makes me tingly inside.

And you’re OK with the entire idea of open-field combat being destroyed by this single, idiotic change?

When I see people post stuff like this, I wonder how much WvW they actually play. It can’t be much…

Haven’t seen open field combat destroyed to be honest. I’ve seen tower defenses splatter invaders, but not open field stuff. Now, if someone dropping an AC in the open field is indeed “breaking” open field combat then all I can offer to do is slowly shake my head at the dead people that failed to realize there’s a minimum distance for ACs as well.

Try running over 3500 range while crippled and in the middle of a fight. Not gonna happen. You’re gonna be dead LONG before you get out of range.

I’ve also seen tower defenses get splattered by ACs planted outside the walls.

You obviously either don’t play much WvW at all…or your experience is so silo-ed to one type of play that you haven’t experienced the devastating effects of this change.

Arkard.3970:

Tearofsoul.9843:

The funny thing is NO ONE was complaining about AC pre-patch, I mean NO ONE.

So please, if it is working, DON’T try to “fix” it

If people from TC and FA agree on something, you know how abysmal this was.

OMG COMMON GROUND! <3 Maybe we SHOULD keep the buffed arrowcarts! xD

VOLKON.1290:

Hickeroar.9734:

Arkard.3970:

Reverse the changes. Don’t try to band-aid some fix, the fact that this change was made in the first place pretty much gives us zero confidence in any type of attempted fix to be remotely successful.

Reverse the changes ASAP. It does not sit well when something as ridiculous as spectator mode bug fixes gets priority over something as game changing as this. It’s only been 2 and 1/2 days and entire guilds have already quit over this.

The annoying thing is that this stuff was balanced. Really well balanced actually… Why mess with an excellent balance like that?

I would give a lot to find out what decision making process was followed when doing this, because it, frankly, doesn’t many any sense.

ACs were too weak, they really were. Rain hurt more than one of them. They should keep the anti-personnel aspects of them intact. Damage reduction against siege, I can see that.

Now… a trainable “Flaming Arrows” that does full damage against siege (and burns people)… this makes me tingly inside.

And you’re OK with the entire idea of open-field combat being destroyed by this single, idiotic change?

When I see people post stuff like this, I wonder how much WvW they actually play. It can’t be much…

Arkard.3970:

Reverse the changes. Don’t try to band-aid some fix, the fact that this change was made in the first place pretty much gives us zero confidence in any type of attempted fix to be remotely successful.

Reverse the changes ASAP. It does not sit well when something as ridiculous as spectator mode bug fixes gets priority over something as game changing as this. It’s only been 2 and 1/2 days and entire guilds have already quit over this.

The annoying thing is that this stuff was balanced. Really well balanced actually… Why mess with an excellent balance like that?

I would give a lot to find out what decision making process was followed when doing this, because it, frankly, doesn’t many any sense.

I apprecate Devon coming in here and responding. The problem is that his response isn’t good…

ACs are being “flash built” for open field combat. Whoever builds the first one wins.

ACs are being used as offensive siege weapons.

ACs destroy other siege equipment in moments.

I can understand ACs having been meant to be more powerful, but unless you do something to stop the open-field fighting being all AC based now…it’s over. Same goes with the ACs ability to kill siege so fast.

Really, truly over.

Open field fighting was one of the most fun parts of the game before this patch. Now you just see people running and turtling inside structures or getting flat-out wiped by arrow carts. READ THIS: IT’S NOT FUN. WE PLAY THE GAME FOR FUN. NO FUN = NO PLAY.

Also, one person on an AC can ruin any siege push. While ACs can kill rams/golems/trebs so fast, all that siege has become nearly useless. They’re not an anti-personnel weapon at the moment so much as an “anti-everything” weapon.

You guys need to seriously look at the fun-factor before making changes like this. Your devs should have played the game before knee-jerk making game-breaking changes like these. It was an unwise change with no upside. Any amount of real testing would have proven that to you guys.

ACs were great before, and you should put them back. Many, many zerg rushes have been ruined by ACs. Not sure why you thought they needed to be buffed.

Quenta.2978:

Anyone else downloading SWTOR now?

Oh. Just so it on topic.

/onefingervictorysalutetoanet

Thank you for the massive dump on WvW. Cant wait for Camelot Unchained.

Planetside 2 :P

Caliban.3176:

Ysuera Kypheni.5632:

Caliban.3176:

yanoch.7051:

graverr.6473:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

I love the change of arrowcarts, now make catapults able to be usable outside of AC-range again

Buff trebs and catas 80 % now and give them 33% more range like ACs.Yup that willmake things even.

I agree with you but now map will be getting too small. Scale up the map of about 33%. :P

Don’t forget to increase range on all weapons by 33% and make all structures 33% higher as well.

Also buff all armor and damage reduction by 80% as well as all player damage to compensate for that and healing and vitality as well of course.

Now the game is balanced again and no need to nerf Arrowcarts.
Just buff everything else in the game as well.

Arrow carts are under-powered. Imagine a real-life situation: when you’re hit by three arrows, two in the chest, one in the knee, you’ll have little chance to survive.

Now, you got a whole arrow-shower, and you’re still alive. So I recommend to empower those ant-toys. And, if were are already here, I also hate when someone heals up magically in just a second’s time.

Bringing up real life is ridiculous it has no place in the game. Yes people heal up magically, there is magic in this game.

Arrowcarts were never underpowered.

Not to mention…do you think poking a flame ram, catapult, or trebuchet with arrows is going to hurt it? Yet the arrow carts melt all siege in moments.

Ysuera also fails to remember that to heal a person all the way up in combat requires a lot of coordination. Water fields have to be dropped in a coordinated way, and then enough people have to blast finish them to make them effective. They’re not just “magically healing up.” They’re being healed by players who are skilled enough to know how and when to use those particular skills.

Not to mention, on the topic of realism, that if you took a treb shot to the face….you’d be smeared like jelly.

The point isn’t realism. It’s fun.

This isn’t fun.

Loken.9724:

covenn.7165:

I am thinking that our new tactic is to just drop ACs open field and power them up anytime we meet an opposing force. Why bother with class abilities when I can just use 3 buttons?

Any time I have come across another organized guild group in the open. minimum 3 AC’s insta-drop on both sides. Open field combat is now another version of siege warfare. Great.

Just wait until 100 man zergs realize just how many AC’s they can drop on demand in the open..

This.

It seems like the first two days after the patch people were panicking about the effects on siege warfare. It seems that groups have now realized how unbalancing it can be to just drop the things in the middle of the field as well, and give your team an enormous advantage.

People saying you should just “run away” obviously don’t understand the concept of “3500 range.” You can easily be killed by the ACs, especially in the middle of hairy open field combat, in the amount of time it takes to traverse 3500 range.

Vena.8436:

Hickeroar.9734:

No, instead you have to sit back and treb for hours to make sure you take out all their siege before you can go in.

Try a few shots. Two treb shots will kill an AC, they splash too!

Exaggerating doesn’t really help you…

The FA zerg, to take Bay the other day, had 6 or 7 trebs set up from all angles to make sure they could kill all siege in Bay first. The external siege took well over an hour. The taking once they wiped our siege took about 2 minutes. I’m not saying their tactic wasn’t intelligent and successful. It was just….not fun. From either side.

600 supply in trebs alone (or more), not to mention the scores of arrowcarts that were dropped in the process…

The BT guys who were in that fight said it was incredibly boring from the outside. I know on the inside we just pretty much sat there waiting for them to come in. They outnumbered us substantially (and were more organized) so a push was impossible from our end. It was just a waiting-game snorefest.

Trebs + arrow carts + hours and hours. Welcome to the new meta.

I wasn’t exaggerating. This is experiential knowledge.

WyldKat.4712:

destoyer of lives.7963:

I never said the “E” word.

Eggplant?

On server colors after reset:

I want to be green! A green that isn’t mean. A green that likes to be seen. A green that isn’t envy. A green that gels without jealousy. I’m sylvari! I’m green inside and parts out too. My lips are green. Some of my purply armor has green roots to root for the green!

I want to be blue! A blue that is true. A blue that isn’t bad to the sad. A blue that lifts up and doesn’t put down. A blue of sky and dreams that fly. A sky without arrow carts.
Bwhaaaa. A happy off color blue for things that I do!

I want to be red! A red that isn’t dead. A red that isn’t mad cuz that makes people the sad. Angry angsty red needs to go back to bed. Red of heart and of love to try to try without so much qq cry. A red that stays within and not bleedy splurty ow ow ow get the red out. Hot chili pepper love fed red!

I want to put a bow on the rainbow and take a bow and take away the ow cuz we should all be happy and free to play all day in any way that’s what I say!

Ooo… cookie.

( I need to RP someone who mopes… )

See?! I told you you were my new favorite person! This is why!

If I had the power to do such a thing…I would make you the new mascot of TC. The one that reminds us that it’s only a game, makes us laugh, and has fun even when being ruthlessly arrowcarted to death!

Andy.9137:

Raf.1078:

destoyer of lives.7963:

Good job TC taking your bay back………but i have one question…….how do you use an ac to hit lords room from outside north inner gate?……good thing everyone took screenshots of it.

You should probably be directing that question to ANet. If it wasn’t possible before the patch and now it is, then most likely its an unforseen side effect of the AC buff that someone discovered and made use of.

Thats not an exploit….its a bug.

Not unlike the leg mechanic for warriors on AC’s that someone discovered and everyone used until ANet fixed it.

Uhh..well actually. Making use of a bug that wasn’t intended by anet which apparently gives advantage over others, is an exploit.

I wasn’t there for the retake of Bay, but I know when the BT zerg attacked it, they did the same thing. ACs outside the gate, wiping all our ACs and lord room siege from outside of inner. Not sure if it was BT guys doing that though. There were a few other tags mixed in with theirs.

In any case, all you really need to do to do this is run in triple monitor configuration, or run in windowed mode and compress the view until stuff you couldn’t normally see comes into view.

It’s not even a bug… It’s always been this way. Now it’s just incredibly OP with arrow carts that can kill siege in 15 seconds.

The worst part is that I can’t imagine how ANet is going to keep this from happening, short of doubling the height of all walls and gates (or more). I suppose they could lock the resolution to the same native aspect ratio of your monitor….though that wouldn’t help with the triple monitor people.

Lightsbane.9012:

Aneu.1748:

With the ability to put 12 arrowcarts on a single door, adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing, increasing arrowcarts damage by 80%, with arrowcarts being so easily built with such small amount of supply required and increasing the time within which bleed stays on you from a cart… how do you think this is a positive addition to WvW?

I cant even … Im utterly dumbfounded at why someone at arenanet would think this is a good idea…

just a thought, and i’m not disagreeing:
perhaps it’s anet’s way of making it less about zerg and more about thought?
you can’t just kitten a tower or keep anymore can ya?

No, instead you have to sit back and treb for hours to make sure you take out all their siege before you can go in.

Yeah…because THAT’S fun.

ANet must be on to something because, yaknow, that whole pesky fighting thing was annoying anyway.

/sarcasm

Some fun fights in EB tonight.

Except for the fact open field combat is nearly completely broken now.

Whichever group gets the first AC up…wins the fight.

Pretty sad what it’s become. Thanks to all the groups who fought us head to head and didn’t resort to building ACs in the middle of the field. Those fights were fun…even the ones we lost.

Well, open field combat has devolved now into “who can build the first AC.”

Whoever gets the first AC built in the field wins the fight.

eithinan.9841:

DeadlySynz.3471:

I think this AC problem could be fixed by just adding an ammunition supply in addition to the actual supplies to build the equipment. Players hold ammo on them, and when it drains, no more shots from AC’s, or any other siege equipment. They have to hop off and another player hops on with ammo to continue. If they don’t have ammo or they’ve wasted it blindly firing arrows outside the gate, then it’s too bad so sad.

They could add ammo camps, and little ammo caches. Ammo could drop off players etc..

…or just have supply be the ammo. 1 shot per 1 supply. do that for every piece of siege.

Haha oh mai. Imagine how THAT would change the metagame.

Doesn’t make sense for something like a ram to have ammo supply though, except for maybe the flame part.

Arrow carts though….I’ve always wondered where they get all those arrows from.

I think it would be better for everyone if they just returned ACs to how they were before.

Xsorus.2507:

Lets see if I understand this right..

Before the patch, a group of 50 people comes up on a defended keep with arrowcarts, with say 20 defenders….

They blow through the keep and take it because 20 people with ArrowCarts couldn’t do squat against 50 people.

Now the 50 people are dying and are kind of mad they can’t take a defended keep anymore as easily as before?

Also the whole “Well small mans are screwed cause they can’t take a Supply camp with someone defending with and arrow cart”

That is a load of horsekitten by zergers who are mad they can’t out zerg people anymore.

I small man all the time, I solo all the time, I can safely say if you have an arrow cart in a Supply camp I’ll run in and kill you before you can kill me with an Arrow Cart, hell as a ranger i can send my pet in and he’ll kill you or the siege weapon and you’ll not be able to do squat about it (the guards won’t help you)

I’m sorry you guys can’t bum rush defended keeps anymore with massive numbers and take it…I’m sorry you’ll have to rethink your strategy, but don’t try and use Small Mans and Solo’s as an excuse to nerf Arrow Carts because you want to be a Sea of Bad and throw yourself against a defended gate.

Your numbers are broken. I’ve seen golem rushes and huge zergs melted and pushed away many times by three people on regular arrow carts.

Update: If you were never killed by such a thing I can only assume that either your experience is not expansive enough to have really experienced WvW, or your commanders were smart enough to pull you away.

Damage on arrow carts has never been sub-optimal. It never even occurred to me that they needed any change at all.

Vash.9183:

Hickeroar.9734:

Vash.9183:

Here is a picture of TC sieging Hills in TC bl. Looks a lot like how every other tower and keep was sieged by them in the same borderland.

That’s how everyone’s playing the game now… It’s awful…and not fun.

Welcome to the new ACvAC.

Yeah. Mainly trying to put emphasis on how the arrow cart is hitting in a location where there should be no line-of-sight.

You just need to drop the cart in a place where the user can see that location. Also, triple monitor displays can see a lot of weird places you wouldn’t expect when you’re looking in the right direction.

This same tactic was used when FA took Bay from us last night. They took out no less than 6 arrow carts that were right behind a T3 wall with their arrow carts. In hindsight I wish I’d gotten a screenshot.

I don’t call it exploiting anyway. I call it cheap, yes, even when TC does it, but it’s not an exploit.

Vash.9183:

Here is a picture of TC sieging Hills in TC bl. Looks a lot like how every other tower and keep was sieged by them in the same borderland.

That’s how everyone’s playing the game now… It’s awful…and not fun. It’s unfortunately also the only way to play anymore.

Welcome to the new ACvAC.

Johje Holan.4607:

What? You’re saying an AC can hit that hill to the west of Hills? You tested that?

Even buffed, the AC range is still 140 short of a cata. Cata = 4000 range. Range buffed AC = 3500 range. AC radius = 360.

3500 + 360 = 3860.

ACs don’t outrange Catas. Not sure why people keep saying they do. If we’re gonna debate this thing, let’s not start making stuff up.

Serophous.9085:

Hickeroar.9734:

Serophous.9085:

Lance.5892:

FractalChaos.6539:

MagnusLL.8473:

Sorenstam Blackrose.8425:

Caliban.3176:

We open up keeps and towers to get to the people inside, not for any other reason.

The fact that this point has to be reiterated time and time again is probably the most disappointing part about this thread. It’s funny how the zerg-busting guilds are getting lumped in with the mythical karma train zergs simply because they disagree with this patch and see all its implications.

which brings me to my point, they said something, then they changed their minds.

So if Anet says anything else, they can never never change their minds and must stick to it no matter what?
I hope you do understand that a game mode including towers, keeps, siege weapons, supply camps and supply lines, and whose score is computed on structures owned and not on total kills was never intended to be played as a bigger deathmatch arena.

THANK…FREAKING…YOU!!!!

This isn’t “PvP”; it’s WvW. It’s supposed to be about attrition, sieges, defenses. If you don’t care about that part of the game and only want to kill players, go play sPvP.

You know, the game mode Anet included for those who like to kill players without all that bothersome siege stuff?

and yet again, i must repeat myself

please read
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/pvp/

World vs. World (WvW) is PvP combat that involves hundred of players. Three huge teams —each representing a server, or world—battle for control over objectives on four massive maps in week-long matches.
Each map – one for each server and a huge “neutral” center map – is loaded with objectives that are worth points for the team that claims them. Players can band together to lay siege to castles, raid enemy supply caravans, clash with other players in truly massive battles, wreak havoc behind enemy lines, or build mighty weapons of war like trebuchets and siege golems.
While players are in WvW, they gain experience and loot just as they normally do while exploring Tyria. Plus, when their home world is doing well or wins a match in WvW, all players on that world receive special bonuses and perks.
World vs. World—it’s PvP combat on an epic scale!

oh oh oh! I like these posts!

“See! Anet said this! Its in stone! They cannot change it at all! I’m right! you’re wrong!”

And then came fractals and the ascended gear, and then the grind….

but, pft, anet never said anything against those, right? I mean, its not like they never gave a solid answer on the level cap being raised later on, causing you to have to level once more,…

Fractals and ascended gear were/are not game changers or game breakers in the overall scheme of the existing game at the time. They were added to appeal to a broader player base and didn’t notably affect anything else.

This WvW change is entirely different. They took an existing paradigm and turned it on its head.

So anet can never never change its mind? Everything they say is set in stone?

Uh, no one said they couldn’t change their mind. The point is, THEY TOOK AN EXISTING PARADIGM AND TURNED IT ON ITS HEAD.

It would be idiotic if they did this and didn’t expect backlash.

Imagine if ANet took warriors and made them the lowest health, least damage dealing class in the game. Yeah…sure…they can change their mind. How many people do you think are still gonna play warrior though?

Apply that analogy to WvW.

spconder.2489:

graverr.6473:

spconder.2489:

I’m going to do the stupid thing an try to be reasonable about this.

Keeps and towers SHOULD be hard to capture. The whole point of building a fort is to give the defenders a rather substantial advantage, no?

Substantial advantage YES.And that they already have for being covered by walls and having the tactical higher ground advantage + suply stack.SUBSTANTIAL ADVANTAGE not WTFPAWN GODMODE I can deal with dodge ,i can deal with being oneshoted ,but i can’t deal that 1 ac = rams not usable.

Rams getting destroyed? Have a guardian put a bubble over them. Problem solved.

Guardian bubbles don’t protect against arrow carts. They’d have been used all along if they did.

Serophous.9085:

Lance.5892:

FractalChaos.6539:

MagnusLL.8473:

Sorenstam Blackrose.8425:

Caliban.3176:

We open up keeps and towers to get to the people inside, not for any other reason.

The fact that this point has to be reiterated time and time again is probably the most disappointing part about this thread. It’s funny how the zerg-busting guilds are getting lumped in with the mythical karma train zergs simply because they disagree with this patch and see all its implications.

I hope you do understand that a game mode including towers, keeps, siege weapons, supply camps and supply lines, and whose score is computed on structures owned and not on total kills was never intended to be played as a bigger deathmatch arena.

THANK…FREAKING…YOU!!!!

This isn’t “PvP”; it’s WvW. It’s supposed to be about attrition, sieges, defenses. If you don’t care about that part of the game and only want to kill players, go play sPvP.

You know, the game mode Anet included for those who like to kill players without all that bothersome siege stuff?

and yet again, i must repeat myself

please read
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/pvp/

World vs. World (WvW) is PvP combat that involves hundred of players. Three huge teams —each representing a server, or world—battle for control over objectives on four massive maps in week-long matches.
Each map – one for each server and a huge “neutral” center map – is loaded with objectives that are worth points for the team that claims them. Players can band together to lay siege to castles, raid enemy supply caravans, clash with other players in truly massive battles, wreak havoc behind enemy lines, or build mighty weapons of war like trebuchets and siege golems.
While players are in WvW, they gain experience and loot just as they normally do while exploring Tyria. Plus, when their home world is doing well or wins a match in WvW, all players on that world receive special bonuses and perks.
World vs. World—it’s PvP combat on an epic scale!

oh oh oh! I like these posts!

“See! Anet said this! Its in stone! They cannot change it at all! I’m right! you’re wrong!”

And then came fractals and the ascended gear, and then the grind….

but, pft, anet never said anything against those, right? I mean, its not like they never gave a solid answer on the level cap being raised later on, causing you to have to level once more,…

Fractals and ascended gear were/are not game changers or game breakers in the overall scheme of the existing game at the time. They were added to appeal to a broader player base and didn’t notably affect anything else.

This WvW change is entirely different. They took an existing paradigm and turned it on its head.

Johje Holan.4607:

Hickeroar.9734:

If the benefit to the buff was that the smaller forces stood a chance against the larger forces while defending…that would be one thing…

The problem is that arrowcarts are being used as offensive weapons now. Zergs are dropping ACs outside of towers and keeps and using gaps above doors (and other creative aiming tricks) to aim them inside and take out all the siege…including other arrow carts, before attempting to take the tower.

And I should mention that even a small zerg with three arrow carts outside a tower can wipe anyone trying to get INTO that tower to defend it with breathtaking ease.

TC lost TCBL Bay last night to enemies dropping tons of superior arrow carts outside the gates of inner and wiping siege inside. When they came in, they hardly had any resistance from siege because they had used arrow carts to wipe almost all of it. That….is utterly broken.

The post immediatly following also by Hickroar:

Arrow carts almost have as much range as catapults now… Not to mention you may cata down that wall, but good luck getting inside the breach…

What? Your two posts back to back are arguing the two opposite points of view.

And you say TC lost Bay – which completely contradicts what another TC poster is saying (namley its impossible to take keeps now).

Come on. Just give it a couple of weeks.

Bay is a special case in that it’s horrible. Easily the easiest keep in the game to take. You can easily use ACs (a defensive weapon) as an offensive weapon in a place like Bay because of how many holes it has.

One post was arguing that ACs are now being used as offensive weapons which shows how OP they are. To be fair, the forces in Bay in that case were also PuGs who wouldn’t listen to a single word the commander said…but easily SHOULD have been able to lock it down had Bay not been so bloody horrible. Offensive ACs killed our defensive ACs in two showers via wonky camera/aiming angles. They could hit and see our AC siege from outside of bay inner. We couldn’t see or hit theirs. You can call that whatever you want. I call it “Bay Sucks.”

One post was implying that in most cases, such as garrisons and hills, these new ACs are going to make it insta-death if you have any more than two people manning the things.

I gave it a couple days. I have seen more arrow carts in the past two days than I’ve seen in the past month. They outnumber all other siege 10:1. Anyone arguing that they’re not OP is just delusional.

No thanks, I don’t need a few weeks.

Chessrook.8643:

Yeah it’s pretty clear. ACs weren’t particularly useful and didn’t really pose much of a threat outside of narrow corridors like Pang or the paths to the SM Lord Room. Now they actually pose a threat to those in more open areas too (Still contained, but more open), giving smaller groups a better chance of survival.

The problem is abuse. That pic of 12 ACs on one door keeps popping up, and that pretty much says it all. I don’t know how often you’d really be able to MAN all those ACs, or how useful it would be when dealing with multiple broken walls or ranged catas/trebs, but the fact is it’s getting overused.

Underpowered and never useful, or overpowered and abused horribly? Which is worse?

I’ve seen many surprise golem rushes killed by 3-4 ACs on a garrison watergate. I’ve seen many huge zerg attacks on gates either wiped, or driven off by ACs inside towers and keeps (like…MANY many). I’ve seen many zerg-fights with arrow-carts dropped in the middle of the fighting field.

These were all before this patch.

They were PLENTY powerful before when used properly. Now? I have to wonder what in the world ANet was thinking.

To quote a famous line from a popular dungeon: “Your idea is just stupid and won’t work.”

scanz.4536:

It is encouraging zerg play, not splitting up the zerg as so many people continue to try and say.

I’d argue that it’s encouraging “no play” more than anything.

All they’d really need to do is launch a PTR and stick all balance/spec changes in there for a month before actually pushing them out. Then they’d need to listen to feedback from the PTR players.

Caedmon.6798:

Hickeroar.9734:

Caedmon.6798:

1170 posts..Not one reply….Anet are you serious ? You don’t want to talk with us about how to possibly still turn this into a good thing with a few changes ? Keep going your own way and ignore your community hoping the problem will solve itself in time and people get used to it…?

They never replied to the Leg Specialist issue and that got fixed. Maybe it’s a sign they’re actually fixing things…

How long did that take without them saying a thing ? Months…Are you willing to wait around for months hoping they will some day wake up with the idea of changing this ?

Oh, no, I’m definitely not willing to wait around. I’ve already started playing Planetside 2 to feed my “massive battle” hunger until they fix this issue. It’s a real shame, considering I have two toons with commander tags and I just invested in a whole set of Sentinel armor, T2/3 skinned, for my guardian commander. For now I’m just hoping I don’t have to cut my losses and move on permanently.

Le-sigh…

Caedmon.6798:

1170 posts..Not one reply….Anet are you serious ? You don’t want to talk with us about how to possibly still turn this into a good thing with a few changes ? Keep going your own way and ignore your community hoping the problem will solve itself in time and people get used to it…?

They never replied to the Leg Specialist issue and that got fixed. Maybe it’s a sign they’re actually fixing things…

Quenta.2978:

This is how it went down at Bay, and I don’t think anyone from TC or FA really enjoyed the bore fest of it:

1. We took Briar and built a treb to kill the arrow carts on the gate.
2. We built 2 rams to kill the gate.
3. A bazillion arrow carts were behind the gate and killed the rams.
4. We ranged the gates down with our ossum staves.
5. Gate goes down and we are greeted to so many red circle on the ground, I thought the Bay contracted an aggressive form of the herpres simplex virus.
6. We get through the herpes after applying some Valtrex (which was a push through the gate).
7. We built 5 trebs in the vale to hit the inner. I can only imagine a lot of TC pugs were using this as a good opportunity to get WXP by repairing the gates/walls.
8. After a long bore fest of this. The walls and gates were finally down. We then put two trebs on the south outer gate of Bay to treb down siege on the walls.
9. We built another treb over looking the dock to kill more siege on the inner.
10. We made a push to the south inner gate and found out that Valtrex does not work because there was an outbreak of an even more nasty herpes strain.
11. We slowly built our own counter arrow carts and proceeded at a snails pace to take down what we could.
12. After taking down all the siege that we could while pushing with our own arrow carts, we pushed in and took the bay.

Now usually keep takes are fun and epic, this was nothing but boring and tasteless. Siege Wars 2, Treb Wars 2, Arrow Cart Wars 2, whatever you call it, it ain’t GW2.

This pretty much sums it up. We had a ton of pugs in there draining supply at an astounding rate with repairs, ignoring our commander on the map telling them not to. We had 1700 supply, then 800 supply, then I looked 5 minutes later and we had 200 supply.

Not much coordination on our end save for the few of us who were in mumble, following the commander’s instructions.

Arrow carts everywhere (I counted 14 on inner at one point)…which were wiped by your arrow-carts and trebs. I think you guys had 5-7 trebs hitting inner bay at some points…

We had a queued map and people just wouldn’t follow any instruction at all. Really frustrating.

I had to just laugh at the ridiculousness of the fight by the time it was over. It was either laugh or face-desk/ragequit.

BT was intelligent in playing the game the way it had to be played to win that fight… It’s just unfortunate that it had to be played that way.

Zepher.7803:

Arrowcarts are just fine, yes I hate getting bombarded with a gazillion arrows when I’m at a gate, but this seems more in line with it being a siege weapon, not a LB barrage, and I can actually keep people away. instead of hoping one of them doesn’t move.

trebs, catapults force the defenders to build counters or to come out of thier safe walls and viola! battle on maggots!

Arrow carts almost have as much range as catapults now… Not to mention you may cata down that wall, but good luck getting inside the breach…

If the benefit to the buff was that the smaller forces stood a chance against the larger forces while defending…that would be one thing…

The problem is that arrowcarts are being used as offensive weapons now. Zergs are dropping ACs outside of towers and keeps and using gaps above doors (and other creative aiming tricks) to aim them inside and take out all the siege…including other arrow carts, before attempting to take the tower.

And I should mention that even a small zerg with three arrow carts outside a tower can wipe anyone trying to get INTO that tower to defend it with breathtaking ease.

TC lost TCBL Bay last night to enemies dropping tons of superior arrow carts outside the gates of inner and wiping siege inside. When they came in, they hardly had any resistance from siege because they had used arrow carts to wipe almost all of it. That….is utterly broken.

Ruprect.7260:

I think there is just a huge discepency between the tiers here. lower tiers don’t like losing a tower/keep in 2 mins. Higher tiers generally dont have that problem and have mostly big epic fights for keeps that can last hours, T3 keeps/towers were hard to take in the higher tiers before this change.

Personally I have no problem with both zergs and small groups, maybe the solution would be to have the AC’s changes only happen when a server has outmanned buff?

Honestly, this is the best idea I’ve heard on this topic since it started.

FractalChaos.6539:

KStudios.2850:

Heijincks.9267:

I suppose the previous meta wasn’t what Anet wanted WvW to be. For example, let’s take guild ownership.

The objectives get flipped so fast in the former meta that there’s literally no point in making one for your guild. If they buff siege up to the point that it’s impossible to quickly take an objective, and make each objective a fortress, then might there be some point in doing so.

In other words, it probably wasn’t Anet’s vision for fast flips. The previous meta was not what they wanted. They probably want WvW to be more like drawn out, perpetual warfare with more meaningful objectives. Yes, that probably will mean WvW will stagnate. That said, the new meta will separate the good commanders from the bad ones since tactics are forced. Also, having few defenders being able to hold off large numbers also depromotes nightcapping.

It’ll interesting to see how this will turn out. Right now it’s simply a matter of waiting for everyone to adjust, or waiting for those who are unwilling to adjust leave. I’m guessing that in the near future, objectives will be valuable enough that people won’t just go do something like “Drain all supplies from X and move to Y”.

This^

He/she gets it. I’m tired of being steamrolled under-foot because some sea-guild nightcaps consistantly night after night in the instances when our “big guns” aren’t around to save us. I’m tired of being just an inevitable smear on the ground in some mobs karma-train. Then having my carcass “bagged” and laughed at in the lord’s room I so desperately tried to defend. Like I was the one whose efforts were pointless, and you cowards can’t take me on in equal terms. There’s no good fight or any measure of respectable PvP in a 4v30+, so that argument is totally moot. We also certainly didn’t get respected for our efforts in trying either.

Defending is actually worthwhile now for those of us who don’t want to participate in your mouth-frothing zergball karma-trains. Someone asks “U mad?” you’re kitten’ing right I’m mad. I do NOT want to get thrown back into just plain ol’ more of the same. Is 80% dmg increase too much? Maybe. We could probably compromise and settle for 50%, but I do not want to step backward to the time when zergs reigned.

Kudos to you, sir.

So in other words….sacrifice the enjoyability of the game for the majority of the players to please the couple people who have trouble at night?

No. Just no.

FractalChaos.6539:

ParaldaWind.4523:

I was both wiped by superior arrow carts tonight, and wiped others, and I never once had any fun doing it.

Stop encouraging us not to PvP, Anet.

I timed this last night; I have a level 80 Engineer with about 2400 armor and 24k hit points. He literally stood, /dancing, in arrow rain from a superior AC for 35 seconds before the AC got him down to 30% HP and he had to heal himself. He then /danced for another 17-18 seconds before /laughing and heading back into Bay.

Either you’re not very good at this game, or else you’re exaggerating/lying.

And I can tell you that you’re making crap up. This is simply not possible without external healing. Your math is broken. Superior arrow carts pulse 1500+, twice per second, against even the tankiest of characters. With 24k health, that’s 16 pulses and you’re dead (probably faster with a medium armor class which typically pulses for 1700+). Read: Two uses of the arrow cart and you’re dead.

You were not dancing in superior arrow cart fire for 35 seconds….

I have a guardian with around 3000 armor and just under 24k health (the new sentinel armor). One use of a superior arrow cart on me had me at 50% health, and the arrow cart I was operating had about 5% health left.

Again I say: You were not dancing in superior arrow cart fire for 35 seconds….

bribrim.9710:

It seems many do not like the Living Story and the idea of change being permanent in a game. Not me! Nobody I know watches the same movie in a theater 50 times in a row. The analogy is probably poor but you get my drift. If you miss something in-game, well… do the next release of the Living Story. Just don’t force me to play in a NEVER changing world.

By that logic, with us asking them to keep a single dungeon we like, ANet should be removing the launch dungeons from the game?

IRSyKo.5843:

Hickeroar.9734:

Serelisk.6573:

Hickeroar.9734:

LOL. We just had what amounted to an arrow-cart battle with BT in TCBL Bay.

Those things are SOOOO OP now. We had like 15-20 ACs and BT killed them all..With ACs.

BT pushed the Lord Room…and built ACs inside.

Oh mai ANet. What have you done to our game…

I wanted to ragequit after we lost it…and then I realized just how ridiculous and funny it was. xD

Was painfully boring, and I really hope they don’t encourage these arrow cart wars any further. :/

Yeah.

We were on the verge of doing a Hills push to bring our BL back under control when you guys showed up and mowed over our little band at Vale.

That hurt.

Ouch.

Funny thing about it was, someone had JUST commented in mumble not 1 minute before about hoping BT wouldn’t show up just as we wanted to push hills. Saw that cloud of red and was like….You! You jinxed it!

This man is expressing kindness to BT.

I…I don’t know how to react.

<3

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

luniprincess.3162:

welcome to AC2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEml669YJHY

Welcome to dumb zerg being a dumb zerg.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Likelihood-of-arrowcart-nerf/page/19#post1942649

You’re kidding, right? One person on an arrowcart kills a whole zerg in seconds? And you say the ZERG is dumb? No, sorry, this change was dumb.

Serelisk.6573:

Hickeroar.9734:

LOL. We just had what amounted to an arrow-cart battle with BT in TCBL Bay.

Those things are SOOOO OP now. We had like 15-20 ACs and BT killed them all..With ACs.

BT pushed the Lord Room…and built ACs inside.

Oh mai ANet. What have you done to our game…

I wanted to ragequit after we lost it…and then I realized just how ridiculous and funny it was. xD

Was painfully boring, and I really hope they don’t encourage these arrow cart wars any further. :/

Yeah.

We were on the verge of doing a Hills push to bring our BL back under control when you guys showed up and mowed over our little band at Vale.

That hurt.

Ouch.

Funny thing about it was, someone had JUST commented in mumble not 1 minute before about hoping BT wouldn’t show up just as we wanted to push hills. Saw that cloud of red and was like….You! You jinxed it!

MiLkZz.4789:

elderan.2638:

With AC mastery = 3500 range
Catapult = 4000 range

You just need to build it near max range for it work. Basically requires smarter cata placement now.

3500 range to the center of the AC fire, you got to add the radius of the circle which is really big too.

This means that catapults are useless.

It’s 360 radius. Still technically not as far. :P

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Fixing crash bugs are always important.

Thinking of crashing…seen those new arrow carts?

r z.7261:

It’s changes like this, that really really make you wonder if Anet even plays their own game. I mean clearly, they do not! This change is ridiculous, it has changed WvW immensely.

Yeah, I’ve decided to stay out of WvW until they restore or nerf ACs. I’ll go play Planetside 2 or something, but WvW isn’t fun this way.

WvAC?
Arrowrams?

LOL. We just had what amounted to an arrow-cart battle with BT in TCBL Bay.

Those things are SOOOO OP now. We had like 15-20 ACs and BT killed them all..With ACs.

BT pushed the Lord Room…and built ACs inside.

Oh mai ANet. What have you done to our game…

I wanted to ragequit after we lost it…and then I realized just how ridiculous and funny it was. xD