Guild Wars 2

Still way better than what power mesmer (shatter in particular) will be getting. Like…nothing.

I will defintely playing my engi more after that patch. Seems like i’ll be playing Rifle/Gadgets/FT power, since condi builds are lame and i like the rifle play style. Also i get to use Rocket Boots and Slick Shoes at the same time

Personally, i don’t think the game should be balanced around PvE at all. Most encounters, except high fractals and world bosses, are easy enough to be completed while half asleep and breaking your fast at the same time.

Balancing should be applied in an environment where players are playing against each other. That’s why Diablo III has no PvP system, because this way they don’t have to care about balancing.

Also, please, Fireball doesn’t hit for 6k without might stacks and ideal conditions.

Don’t know about stacks and such but just yesterday i’ve been hit by 6k+ fireballs on my 2100 armor. Sure that ele was squishy as hell and i would’ve probably killed him in seconds if we were 1v1, but we weren’t.

Hopefully PU sees a hefty nerf in exchange for this. PU condi mesmer wouldn’t do anything but spamming staff clones and hifing in stealth otherwise.

Also, staff autoattack probably needs a nerf, then.

Well, at least staff eles are capable of 6k autoattacks in fire. I wouldn’t really want to buff this one at least.

Well, it would give every necro build out there a 1200 (or 900, since you want it to be medium range) 15s cd (untraited) movement skill.

Personally, i think that would be too good.

Also, i don’t really perceive Dark Path as “easy to dodge”. It is a homing skill after all and in my experience, the teleport always happens, no matter if you dodge the claw or not.

So far i have never died when Moa’d. It’s a bad skill 1v1 if you are smart enough to keep at least 1 dodge unused and fight near obstacles.

The warrior has ridiculously long and telegraphed windups.

Yes, that Whirlwind Attack taking out 50-75% of my health has an incredible long cast time, indeed…

Also, 5k autoattacks (which are not warrior exclusive, mind you), shouldn’t be possible at all imo.

Actually, i’m currently at a point where i just /shrug and /laugh at every warrior after he runs out of combat for 2 or 3 times against me.

Morfedel.4165:

Hm. Too bad the individual in question wouldn’t speak to me after the first question or two. She seemed to act like it was common to her, but I dunno. Too bad. It was a very cool effect

Well, could be that she herself wasn’t able to see the bug. I sometimes have the frost/fire breath animation stuck on a D/D ele while he can’t see it himself.

Aside from Healing Signet and mobility, i’d say that warrior skills in general scale too well with Power. Autoattacks (GS and Hammer) doing 4-5k and Whirlwind Attack (which is also movement and evade) doing up to 3-4k per hit (compared to the measly 800 a Blurred Frenzy – which also self roots – does) is too much, no matter how offensively a character is built.

Too much revealed stuff. Rather than giving us (or any class) access to revealed, tone down stealth (be it for thieves, mesmer, engis or even rangers) if needed.

Since you used to play thief, Shatter could be a good build for you. It’s way less forgiving than PU but at least you are doing something instead of watching other people die at your clone spam.

Shatter mes isn’t called “thief with clones” by some people without reason.

Send them home so there’s more space for roaming.

I like it on my engi. I’m not playing Fotm builds on principle so i like using kinda underpowered builds as long as i’m having fun and still can manage to have a decent success rate on it.

I’m currently using Wolfineer’s Rifle/FT HGH power build and love it. Sometimes i’m swapping FT for elixir gun (still power) for the added mobility and defense options. Once i’m confident enough in my engi i might start to play with both of them.

I’ve been running Cleansing Conflagration in my shatter builds for months and still use it, unless i’m up against a guardian or ele.

Here’s the build i’m currently using:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgQQNAR8flwzipXUzmGb9ICqHYH49dkU0avWJF22FC-jUCBoewYjBi+IQEBwJPFRjtMsIasabYKXDRWFDVKgRFGB-w

I currently don’t have the ressources to swap out the cavalier pieces for zerker and wil probably change the celestial weapons for zerker as well when the critdmg nerf hits. Might be, i’ll even swap to Speed runes if they nerf the crit dmg on Traveler too hard.

Well, it’s medium armor, so at least you are naturally more tanky than eles/necros/mesmers. I don’t PvE, but when i’m roaming on my engi (fullzerk SD or HGH rifle), i’m in a much greater fear of stuns than of damage alone.

Won’t be fixed until next content patch in 2 weeks, since it doesn’t affect PvE, i fear.

PU, yes. Any other mesmer build usually loses vs a decent thief.

/edit: I haven’t tested it since i’m playing S/P thief right now (sad how hard Shatter has been nerfed in comparison…) but actually this could be a buff to PU condi builds if it also triggers their on-death traits.

Nausicca.6038:

Why not changing PU instead of your weapon set? And see if you still get complaints? That’s a serious question. Because I never receive complaints with my shatter build. So I’m curious. Ty

It’s funny how even against decent opponents i always get perceived as another build. I’ve been called phantasm, PU (despite not having a single source of regen, protection and aegis apart from Arcane Thievery) and even Perplexity so far.

Nobody expects a 20/20/0/0/30 with Traveler’s anymore in these days…

Totalkill.8014:

What weapons is build is Shatter memser?

Weapon-wise you are quite flexible. Most run sword mainhand for the basic 3-3-2-F1 combo, but to be honest you shouldn’t rely on that too much. It’s pretty telegraphed and easily avoided. Both skills are still good on their own, though.

Personally, i use Greatsword + Sword/Torch.

GS is good for starting a fight from range and the 2 skill does good damage when used in close range. The phantasm als applies cripple, which is always useful.

Torch offers another stealth and possible cleanses when traiting for it (i do, unless fighting eles/guardians since i switch to boonremove for them). The phantasm itself is horrible for a power build, but when traited it also removes a boon on each attack (which bounces), so it can still be useful.

The basic shatter build is 20/20/0/0/30. The 20 in dueling and 30 in illusions are quite mandatory since the build relies on Deceptive Evasion for clone generation and iPersona for maximising damage/survival.

As an example, here’s my current build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgQQNAR8flwzipXUzmGb9ICqHYH49dkU0avWJF22FC-jUCBoewYjBi+IQEBwJPFRjtMsIasabYKXDRWFDVKgRFGB-w

Blink and Decoy are pretty much my bread and butter utilities, mostly used for survival (although you can do a surprise attack with Torch 4 – GS 2 – Blink – Dodge – F1). Arcane Thievery is useful as a condi remove and against warriors/power-specced rangers. Against thieves i switch to Mirror Images for added burst. I also swap out Far-Reaching Manipulations for Blade Training since i need Blurred Frenzy as often as possible.

I’m using these weapons since i do a lot of roaming and want to be able to catch opponents every once in a while (don’t even try vs warriors). In a dueling environment, Staff can be used instead of GS, since it offers some defense.

In sPvP i see people using GS/Staff but you need to be able to perfectly execute forward Phase Retreats (About Face – Staff 2 – About Face) and know a lot of blink spots to really put that combination to use.

I hope i could help you for a start ^^

/edit: For additional info, i’d suggest you to take a look at Supcutie’s comprehensive Shatter guide: http://mesmerguides.com/supcutie.html
It’s very detailed, so you will most likely spend some time reading it and watching the videos but it should answer most if not all questions related to Shatter.

It’s not that easy since, at least for me, when i shatter my clones for F1-3 without a target the shatter is delayed by ~1s, but if they shatter the moment before a thief tries to CnD off them, he fails and thus loses initiative.

Actually, i’m all for giving ranger pets power/condi scaling. I think it’s kinda silly when the ranger is able to go full tank/regen or condi and still have his pet doing high crits all day long.

Ironically i tend to give thieves and mesmers the same if not a higher priority when fighting 1vX or XvX. Generally i go by: Whatever does the most damage has to be focused.

WvW rangers often go full zerk and on top of it tend to just stand there spamming their LB autoattack, Rapid Fire and Barrage on CD.

It probably needs a phantasm mesmer to contribute something more useful to this conversation than me.

As long as my iZerker cripples and my traited iMage removes conditions, i’m basically fine But also remember that our direct damages kinda sucks compared to other classes (2.1k GS autoattack compared to 3-4k ranger LB, 1.7k sword autoattack compared to 3-4k warrior everything.)

Well I’m just going to remind you that this isn’t a game of ‘spot the difference’.

Yeah, but you know…that’s how this thread got started.

When I see a Mesmer with a +40% condition duration food, on the other hand…

To be fair, it’s not only mesmers. That food (and its counterpart) is way too powerful in its current state.

I know some Necros who refuse to use it unless their opponent is using the -40% one because they thinks it’s unfair.

Shatter mesmer. We are basically thieves with clones anyway ^^

Add Mirror Images, in my experience i need the additional burst to counter their constant stealthing and bursting.

And don’t listen to everyone saying “hop on the PU train”

(Besides the target requirement of phantasms.)

There you have it.

Mesmer is a pure 1v1 class, and gets increasingly useless, the larger the fight gets.

Also, engi turrets dont’t get countered by Blind last time i checked.

You realize, that about anybody would just ignore you after landing a few hits?

You still won’t be able to defend a camp against a zerg and a roamer just /shrugs and does something else. Points are meaningless anyway.

Shatter has a decent chance of beating a thief when running Mirror Images and traiting Blade Training, but it’s still one of the hardest matchups.

/edit: That is, if the thief is power specced. P/D condi is basically impossible.

As a mesmer, i’m actually considering switching to my thief after the patch. I’d like to play S/P but i’ll first wait how the change to Pistol Whip will turn out.

yski.7642:

Cynz.9437:

i did find that vid funny althrough i still wanna see those infamous 18k backstabs =.=

Of the top of my head, I think my personal record on lvl 80s so far is ~16.5k-ish. However, that’s without blood lust stacks and wearing mostly exotics.

I did a bit of math, and it turns out that 16.5k should go up to 17.7k with blood lust alone

Challenge accepted!
(Expect something within a couple of months, hopefully.)

Sorry to necro this thread. Attached is what i think the highest backstab i ever received including a screen of my stats at that point. The screen is ~3 months old, but at least it’s something ^^

/edit: It was a single thief, no buffs from other players. I can’t rule out borderlands bloodlust, though.

//edit: This post is just for showing the damage, i wouldn’t ask for nerfs on thief, you guys have it hard enough already.

@OP: Sorry to dissapoint you, but i won’t start zerging, no matter what. So far shatter is still playable (albeit barely).

If for some reason, they decide to nerf all mesmer roaming builds, those players won’t go “hey, let’s start zerging”. No, they will simply stop playing the class/game and be done with it.

/edit: Granted, i die a lot, but playing shatter demands fast reactions and, for me, is a lot more fun than playing a semi-afk PU build. I still kitten up many times where i misjudge some move and press F4 too early/late and die because i’m squishy as hell, but this way i can get still better.

Unless they nerf Energy too much it will be Energy + Accuracy on both sets. Same as now, but i will be able to put both on my GS now.

If i manage to stack 60% critchance without Accuracy, it will be Energy + Battle or Doom (to handle bunker builds), most likely.

Well, the problem with PU builds in PvP is, that you won’t be able to cap/decap anything while in stealth ^^

Personally, i don’t see any of the on-death traits as a problem in particular. Having 3 defensive boons on PU (that is: No bad option like any other RNG skill or trait) is what’s more of a problem for me.

That’s why i suggest removing Aegis and replacing it with one of Swiftness or Retaliation, maybe even Might or Fury. Aegis in stealth is extremely powerful in a 1v1 situation and shouldn’t be possible that easily, imo.

As of today, whenever i switch maps, all bags in my inventory are closed and i need to open them again to, say, use food, or anything.

This wasn’t the case prior to today’s patch so it must have something to do with it.

Just in case i geared my thief for condi perplexity. It’s extremely boring and op (not condi thief in general, but perplexity), but since ArenaNet doesn’t want me to play fair builds, i’m doing this now.

/edit: Actually, i’d rather play S/P power, but i’ll first wait how the Pistolwhip change turns out.

Don’t think they would change Quickness for Timewarp only. Make Timearp a Glamour, doesn’t need anything else, imo.

Personally i’d like to see the following:
- Keep Deceptive Evasion as is (always summoning a clone).
- Change all on-clone-death traits to only trigger when a clone is killed, not when replaced.

Also:

Shattered Concentration
Shatter Skills now remove 2 boons on hit.

That trait is already very powerful. Better leave it alone.

While i would lose on Sharper Images (actually a positive change for me…stacking bledding without wanting to and having a necro transfer it back is no fun) and Blade Training/1200 Range Manipulations, i think i could live with it if i could keep Vigor.

Apart from PvE…what zerker meta?

2)You can get -40% duration food to, and because of the way its calculated it actually reduces the duration more than the 40% food increases

In my experience they exactly counter each other. And even if that wasn’t the case it’s horrible design being forced to use a specific (and extremely high-priced compared to Koi Cakes) food to be able to have a chance against these builds.

3)Conditions are applies passively? I’d love to know when

There are a lot of traits/runes/sigils applying conditions on hit/crit/getting hit/weapon swap. You can look them up for yourself.

4)Conditions attacks are often untelegraphed thats true, but most big ones are (attacks which apply 5+ stacks of bleeds for example), which is the same as direct damage attacks

You don’t need these big ones. Necro scepter AA, for example, is extremely strong, hard to avoid due to not having a projectile and still stacks a LOT of conditions.

6)People are forced to build in defences to enermy attacks? Thats horrific!

Conditions builds use Dire or Rabid gear, which are perfectly suited to counter power builds due to the high amount of toughness and vitality. Power builds use Zerker, which are…umm…not able to deal with conditions at all.

Sure we could use PVT, but where’s the damage?

They key problems lies in this:
Mesmer is too AI dependent.

Most mesmer builds do large part of their damage via phantasms or shattering the illusions.

Shatter is the least AI dependent, at least for me. In an ideal case you hide in stealth, close in and do a Mirror Blade -> Dodge -> F1 for a quick damage rotation. You spawn AI, sure, but you don’t rely on them in any way other than being there.

If ArenaNet really wants to try getting rid of AI builds, nerfing Shatter into the ground is the last thing they should be doing. And yet that’s exactly what they do.

maybe once the mesmer in spvp has been nerfed to the ground we will see some buffs in wvw.

Obviously no, because these buffs (if they ever hapen) will be sPvP only.

So, you suggest to let leap finishers apply their combo the moment they cross the field instead of at the end of the leap (the way it works now).

Personally, i see this as a good solution.

/edit: Also apply this change to all other skills. As of now, an engineer using Rocket Boots in a smoke field doesn’t get stealthed until he lands again. After the change he would stealth immediately and then doing his jump part. It would be a buff to engineers but i think it’s a deserved one.

Removing +40% condi duration food and its counterpart would already be a big step in the right direction.

(Of course this also applies to all weaker versions of pizza and lemongrass).

Dee Jay.2460:

The problem of Berserker dominance was never one of stats. It was one of game design.

When 90% of PvE damage is avoidable and instant-gibs, then it’s no surprise that players opt for the only edge that matters in such a scenario. And that’s damage.

Exactly, but ArenaNet never sees the root problem. Instead it seems like they do a mind map and take everything that is just remotely related to the problem and nerf it while totally ignoring the root problem.

bOgz.7263:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Don’t forget the confusion nerf.

Let’s face it. Anet hates Mesmers.

Why don’t they just removed the class from the game and be done with it?

Im with you, please just remove mesmer and make all her soulbind stuff acct bound so I can utilize my parked ele.

+1 to that, i’d most likely just grind a warrior to 80 and give my stuff to him. It would be a safe bet, warriors will never be nerfed.

As i already stated here (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/10-you-sure-Based-on-FULL-berserker/first#post3513596), a 10% damage nerf results in a ~35% nerf to critdmg when calculating for 79% critchance (which, granted, is a lot, but possible for full dps builds).

OP states that he wants power damage reduced by 30-40% which, resulting from my earlier statement, would result in critdmg getting removed entirely.

It’s kinda confusing to write in 2 threads about the exact same topic (See mesmer forums).

While i agree with your points, DE nerf is the minor issue since the Vigor nerf will most likely result in ~25% less dodges than before so at some of these occassions you won’t even be able to dodge.

Personally, a much simpler solution would be to make all “on clone death” traits to only trigger when a clone is actually killed, not when it is replaced and leave DE where it is.

But we know ArenaNet, they will nerf everything related to the core issue without touching the actual problem in any way.

As i already stated in a similar named thread over in the balance forums, i don’t see Deceptive Evasion as that much of a nerf for shatter builds.

I now won’t be able to dodge near an enemy to get a clone ready to shatter if a already have 3 illusions standing somewhere doing 0 damage with their GS, but since vigor is nerfed anyway, DE seems like the minor problem of those 2.

Besides, shatter will have a lot of problem which are more urgent after the nerfs compared to DE:
- overall dmg nerf
- vigor nerf
- resulting in not being able to kill anything condi or tanky before getting grinded to death.

It will only not work if you already have 3 illusions out, which is not that much of a problem for a shatter build. Vigor and overall damage nerf will hurt shatter much more.

Also, as a shatter you are likely to trait for Illusionary Persona, so you don’t need a clone to use your F3 at all.

/edit: Also…if you dodge earthshaker, wouldn’t the clone spawned by Deceptive Evasion be killed anyway?

Seeing that you don’t play for that long, according to your own post, perhaps i should clarify one thing to you:

ArenaNet hates mesmers.