Guild Wars 2

I don’t see a lot of teamwork in GW2. When it does happen, the team using it tends to be almost unbeatable with a PUG.

To me, balance means that; All else being equal, any given class can beat any other class. You can’t balance around a team, because the teams are not consistent. The mix is more or less random.

Logically, you need to balance based on 1v1.

edit: a change as small as a couple of tenths of a second on attunement switching might have a noticeable effect.

My first GW1 Elementalist hit 10th level in just over 24 hours recently.

It is interesting that [Aura of Restoration] heals with the energy cost of every spell the Elementalist casts. This apparently includes Monk spells.

The point of that is; The idea of an E ( the GW1 designation for Elementalist ) having monster heal based on outgoing spells is in sync with the GW1 E to some extent. Where the old E was Energy limited ( though not much if a Mesmer also ), The new E is limited by the cds on her or his atunements.

In both cases, survival means keeping up a steady output of spells.

That suggests that a slightly longer or shorter atunement CD would be a strong control on E power without needing major reworks in traits or specific spells.

The old E can be quite squishy if energy runs low. The new E becomes an easy mark if there atunement rotation is disturbed.

I’m simply not seeing this class as OP in either era. Though I wish I had the damage and heal output.

Playing the class in Old Tyria, I have to admit that ANET seems to have done a good translation on this particular specialty. One era corresponds well to the other.

Mark Twain said, “there are lies, kittened lies and statistics.”

The point is that it doesn’t matter in the final analysis if it’s premades or it’s simply a group of well coordinated solos. The result is the same either way.

I think a solo queue is a great idea because it will reduce the experience of facing premades with pugs. I hope it would also reduce the experience of facing the same group of solos repeatedly by mixing the matchups better.

An easier idea with similar results would be to place a rule that didn’t permit multiple instances of the same match up. As an example rule: a player may not be matched on the opposite side of any player she or he faced in the previous match.

I realize that this is a problem because the population is low enough at certain hours that this condition would be tough to fulfill.

Regardless of the OP’s specific statistics, they make a valid point. It’s not fun to lose to the same or similar group of people repeatedly. It is also true that a premade has a massive advantage over a group of solos.

You are mistaken. I challenge you to roll up a Mesmer and go try what you are talking about. It will cost you very little time. Make the super mesmer that scares you so much and go try it out in hotjoin.

I predict you will find it’s a lot less effective and scary than you think. Although we Mesmers do trade on mind games . Because you believe Mesmers are so strong, you will be at a disadvantage every time you face one.

Very few if any Mesmers run the setup you are talking about. It would do pretty poor damage. In addition, setting up that way would attenuate stealth and/or mobility.

Similar can be said of PU. Sure, you can stay hidden.. but then you do no damage and don’t contribute to your team. Well played, PU Mesmer stealth is on par with thief stealth and with a squishier class.

With respect to blinds. Sure, I can blind an opponent, which they clear by attacking. Considering that they are probably attacking several times per second.. blind isn’t really much of a defense as many a thief could tell you.

Kiting isn’t as easy as you think. I have no speed signet or way of keeping speed ( without compromising a lot of other utility by taking traveler runes.) I have [Blink] on a long cooldown. and [Phase Retreat] if I choose staff or [Temporal Curtain] with focus. Again long cooldowns.

As to being hard to pin down, well I get cc’d often enough. Playing Mesmer regularly, I can usually spot the “real” player pretty quickly. Many pvp’ers can. If this is difficult for you, I highly recommend rolling up a Mesmer and trying it out. You will perceive what’s happening pretty quick. Beware though, Mesmers are easily killed, especially if cc’d.

You appear to be theory crafting without much experience actually playing Mesmer.

Not bad solutions. I like the way you’re thinking. That would go a ways to solving some issues.

Mesmer has something along that line by taking glamour mastery which grants a short immunity.

Unfortunately Warrior, Guardian and Ele all have longish immunity and very rapid cleanse already. The fact that these classes have very high cleanse and /or immunity where other classes do not is one of the balance issues.

The key is not to feed the zerg. What I see teams doing regularly is losing mid, then running back in 1’s and 2’s to die.

Better to regroup and go where the enemy isn’t. To paraphrase Tsun Tsu; to be invincible, attack where the enemy is weak, defend what is not attacked.

@PlatinumMember

I’m amused by your name. As to assuming I know nothing, that’s your mistake. Among other things, I’m a coder and looking at this from that perspective.

I maintain that the basic problem of balance is that the game fails to punish button spam. Further, my POV is supported by the situation in GW1 which does punish spamming.

Because the game rewards simple high speed button pounding, it also rewards a specific type of player above others. One with a high reaction speed and strong hand to eye coordination i.e. a young male.

If you doubt that, simply have a look at the tournament teams.

Because one specific demographic of players has an advantage, when they are attracted to a class it becomes suddenly “OP.” We saw that happen in the first tournament season when Turret Engineers were the rage.

Hence, the problem is not the classes, it’s the demographics playing the classes on any given week.

Don’t look now.. but the new Warrior elite appears to be built around burning as well.

I’m glad you’re amused and I stand by what I said. I’m a current GW1 player. No one whines there.

ANET devs have talked about “button speed” as a “skill.” That’s not skill. As far as I can see there’s no monitoring or penalty for the use of macros either. Again, pressing a macro isn’t skillful.

Because there is no penalty for spamming skills, that is the primary mode of play. Penalize that and you push the game toward players thinking about the next move, not just pounding buttons.

I have to agree. If there are exploits like running a pre-made in hotjoin or it’s based simply on time played the league thing will lose credibility.

At this point I don’t bother to pay much attention to betas or press announcements in any case. I’ll believe what I see in-game.

The balance issues are not in the classes at all in my opinion. The fact is that there is a population of players that is significantly more skillful than most. Whatever class they decide is fashionable this week will be OP.

The way to fix balance issues would be to penalize rapid button press style play, as GW 1 does. I literally never hear complaints about balance there.

As to the complaints about Mesmer, two reactions;

First at a gut level Mesmer had been way underpowered for nearly 3 years. I remember having no hope whatever against the rampant hambows. They couldn’t even be dented on Mesmer. Thieves farmed Mesmers with very little risk. So, I’m wishing people would climb off.

Second, Mesmer suffers bad PR for the same reason Thieves do. Namely, people don’t understand the mechanic and so think that they are being cheated. Mesmer is incredibly squishy and doesn’t really have much defense against a knowledgeable opponent.

That is really a learn to play issue.

I got the Star of Gratitude off-season. It took about 7 ish jumping puzzles. Consider though, the drops from it have been unimpressive at best.

This is a nice personal accomplishment but don’t expect to get any serious loot from it. If you’re looking to clear fragments it’s kinda worth it.

The same of Mawdrey really. It’s a nice prestige item, but don’t expect to get drops that equal the investment. The best I generally expect is some crafting consumables.

OK I miscounted the years, 1092 days. Still, I wonder if magic find works. Even hitting the slot machines that many times, a person would probably come away with a jackpot or two.

Here’s the background to this post;

I have a bit over 5400 hours in game, in my [edit; third ] year of play. During that time I’ve played all game modes including 2 world completions. Dungeon Master and Dragon Rank have also been completed.

My habit is to run with 190% magic find, ( 180 “natural” and +10% for food. )

Back to the story;

I’ve spent a fair amount on Mystic Forge. On one occasion I dropped 30,000 Seals of Beetletun worth of weapons into the Forge, gaining nothing of note in return.

Over time, I’ve received 4 separate precursor look – alikes. That in itself is maddening.
Here’s the cake topper.

I make a habit of doing teaching runs with non 80’s or new dungeon runners in Cad’s Manor.

On a recent run, a player whom I believe was on his first dungeon walked away with The Colossus. I thought to myself, “Are you kittening me?” even as I congratulated him. He didn’t even seem to realize what he had.

For exactly the same 3 dungeon paths, in the same party, I walked away with two bonus chest yellow items and the balance blues and whites.

So, serious question of the devs; Does magic find work?

I think that “certain” players will complain about anything mesmer gets.

I sincerely hope it’s been withdrawn.

I don’t agree. Turret engineer was available and moderately effective before it became fashionable.

It wasn’t until it turrets became fashionable that they rose to dominance. This, I’d argue, was because a certain population of players took it up, seeing that a simple button routine could be repeated fast.

As to technical skills; That is precisely what I’m arguing in one sense. The game, as it currently stands, appears to reward button speed more than it does overall skills or strategy.

To return to the topic; I suggest that there ought to be a penalty for button mashing.

I further suggest that the basic problem of gw2 balancing is not in the classes or mechanics. Rather, the problem is that the game is set up to serve one specific demographic.

When that demographic wanders to a new class or build, the build or class suddenly becomes “OP.”

We saw a demonstration of this when Turret Engineer suddenly became fashionable. It topped the leaderboards and seemed unbeatable. Accordingly, anet nerfed it. The super players moved on and now the turrets are UP.

The issue was the players, not the class. By attempting to fix the class, turret engineer was nerfed too far and became a non thing when the whim of the players changed.

Now that population likes d/d Ele and very soon it will be severely nerfed. The players will move on and ele will be left crippled.

To mitigate this problem, I recommend adding casting times to most, if not all skills. This would do two things;

It would make interrupt a useful playstyle.

Having very fast reaction times and/or excellent gaming equipment would be less of an edge.

This, in turn, would make balance easier by narrowing the gap between normal player and super player.

I’m not suggesting that the game be slower, precisely. What I’m suggesting is there be penalties for button mashing.

In GW2, counterplay consists mostly of dodging and an occasional condi cleanse. A counterplay build is meaningless if it’s crushed by the flurry of button 1 presses.

In GW1 each button presses costs something and normally has a casting time. Interrupt is a major issue.

In my ( not very ) humble opinion; the reality of the present game is that the fastest button masher will probably win, even if mistakes are made.

In playing GW 1, I’m learning at a fantastic rate.. but to get to the point…

I have never heard a GW1 player complain in map chat about another’s build. There’s no local chat there. There has been absolutely no salty chat while I was around.

There is also no mention of any class as a “hard counter” to another. It’s never happened in my presense.

I can’t find a single whisper of a bandwagon class or even a dominant one.

Rangers are mentioned as having been OP once, long ago. Mesmers, I’m told have been dominant at times. There have been gimmicks like the “rezmer.”

Why is this so? I can see 3 reasons;

PvP in GW1 punishes indiscriminate key pounding. Sure, there are classes and builds referred to as “nukers.” You won’t get there by pounding 2 then 5 though. At first glance, GW1 is slow to GW2 trained eyes.. but that’s only superficial. It’s all about move and counter move.

It’s my considered opinion that with the current emphasis on “button speed” and fast twitch muscle memory it will not be possible to have a balanced game. One player I met in City of Heroes plays pvp here now. He’s super skilled and any class he plays will be “OP.” It’s not the class numbers or mechanics that are the issue in my opinion. The issue is that the game caters to a very specific type of player. So, as these players migrate from class to class, each class in turn will appear “OP.”

The solution would be to de – emphasize speed and focus more on strategy.

The game is well developed and mature. Given time, GW2 may be similar.

The player base was decimated over what may have been an expansion.
People are very reticent to talk about that situation. Those that remain are mostly quite experienced.

small thing; I loved the jungle drums. They add great flavor and a cool beat.

Is there balm in Gilead? Hmm perhaps that’s a sylvari thing. I never saw them in a couple of completions. ( Human and Norn. )

If you launch the shield wall, then continuum shift, the shield wall does not re appear. Bug or nerf?

If I recall correctly, it did in the reveal.

I loved the personal story segment, even playing it the second time through.

The dialog was non cheesy if it wasn’t really military either. I thought it felt real. How nice to be reunited with the new generation of Destiny’s Edge.

The introduction of the Pale Reavers has me all a-quiver! Thief specialization; Sniper? Assassin? That would be incredibly cool!

The mobs are very nasty “if” you stay in the line of sight of the snipers. There was even a hint about this in the sound bite from one of the Pale Reavers.

I’m liking what I’m seeing so far. Personally story has always been anet’s strong point in my opinion.

I tried to sign up but I don’t do facebook and don’t understand what is being requested in “select profile.”

This doesn’t make sense to me, since you can already do this in the Obsidian Sanctum and custom arenas.

I wouldn’t be fair to score 3v3 games the same as 5v5. That’s an apples to oranges comparison.

As to filtering out classes from your game.. well that’s just asking to be abused, especially in tournaments.

My sense is that you are really asking for organized team pvp only. It seems like you would like see one or more classes eliminated from the game as well.

I think the exact opposite. Burst isn’t skillful play to me. It’s simply pushing buttons quickly. Condi and bunker bring some element of strategy with them.

If I had to guess, I’d say anet is releasing stronghold for regular play. I have to admit though, announcements from anet don’t really get my attention. shrug I’ll believe what I see in game.

I notice that the shield 4 Phantasm seems to grant Alacrity only once. If true, this is either a bug or a subtle nerf.

I notice that the shield 4 Phantasm seems to grant Alacrity only once. If true, this is either a bug or a subtle nerf.

The crusade to nerf Chronomancer has already begun. This is the kind of thing that drives me to wonder why I play this game.

Wow, just wow… y’all really got Chronomancer right. It scares me to death though. The outcry of “nerf this” will be OP from day 1.

It would be a heartbreaker to start playing this and see it gutted with “balance” nerfs.

I began to understand the Alacrity stacking game pretty quickly. At first I thought, “these cds will make most of this stuff useless.” Then with a few more minutes of play I got the rudiments of getting alacrity a couple of times. I can see a long alacrity stacking sequence that could be played, but you’d be blowing a lot of cd’s.

Time Catches Up is like mana from heaven, if I believed in heaven. I’ve been waiting for this for years. I predict shouts of “OP” after the first PvP match it’s used in.

The duration of the f5 shatter skill is about as short as it could possibly be and still be useful. It’s neat as a sort of bomb/super mimic. Any less duration will make it a vestigial skill though.

The fact that [Tides of Time] interrupts is one of the things ANET got right for sure. It is also one reason the nerf pleas will be loud.

[Tides of Time] fails if it strikes terrain. This would be a major issue in many PVE situations and PvP matches. Having the shield wall fail if it hits terrain is a definite deal-breaker on this skill. It follows that it will hamper the alacrity mini game. This “bug” will make the alacrity mini game not work in many situations For example, shield 5 would likely be almost unusable on point at the altar in Temple of the Silent Storm.

I noticed that the shield 4 skill doesn’t produce a phantasm if an attack is not blocked. The wording of the skill tip implies otherwise. What is the intent here?

Overall, wonderful job. Please don’t dash my hopes with insta nerfs and “balance adjustments.”

Wow, just wow… y’all really got Chronomancer right. It scares me to death though. The outcry of “nerf this” will be OP from day 1.

It would be a heartbreaker to start playing this and see it gutted with “balance” nerfs.

I began to understand the Alacrity stacking game pretty quickly. At first I thought, “these cds will make most of this stuff useless.” Then with a few more minutes of play I got the rudiments of getting alacrity a couple of times. I can see a long alacrity stacking sequence that could be played, but you’d be blowing a lot of cd’s.

Time Catches Up is like mana from heaven, if I believed in heaven. I’ve been waiting for this for years. I predict shouts of “OP” after the first PvP match it’s used in.

The duration of the f5 shatter skill is about as short as it could possibly be and still be useful. It’s neat as a sort of bomb/super mimic. Any less duration will make it a vestigial skill though.

The fact that [Tides of Time] interrupts is one of the things ANET got right for sure. It is also one reason the nerf pleas will be loud.

[Tides of Time] fails if it strikes terrain. This would be a major issue in many PVE situations and PvP matches. Having the shield wall fail if it hits terrain is a definite deal-breaker on this skill. It follows that it will hamper the alacrity mini game. This “bug” will make the alacrity mini game not work in many situations For example, shield 5 would likely be almost unusable on point at the altar in Temple of the Silent Storm.

I noticed that the shield 4 skill doesn’t produce a phantasm if an attack is not blocked. The wording of the skill tip implies otherwise. What is the intent here?

Overall, wonderful job. Please don’t dash my hopes with insta nerfs and “balance adjustments.”

I got in game mail indicating that Hall of Monuments rewards would be removed.. I did in fact earn HoM rewards.

What’s the deal with that?

^^ Mesmer is in danger of another long period of irrelevance if ANET elects to nerf us much more.

I keep trying to figure out how to drag my clones to a good hit. Oh, on re-reading.. Mesmer has some of the same issues thief has.

People don’t understand how it works. For this reason, Mesmer is called OP. We get nerfed time and again.

The reason Mesmer isn’t a high tier profession is that it is actually very squishy and under powered.

Against high skill players, you’re going to die in a hurry unless you are significantly more skilled than they are. Low skilled players are easy marks, but beware when you go against someone who understands how Mesmer works.

I’ve been maining Mesmer for something close to 3 years. I don’t find it easy to play at all. Easiest, I’d say d/d ele.. you almost have to try to die.

I believe that the game being strongly oriented to fast twitch muscle memory and video game style is the primary reason it’s so hard to find “balance.”

Basically, the fastest and/or easiest to execute burst wins. I think it could work, if skills had casting times.

Now there’s an idea. A skill that reduced an enemy’s energy and therefore ability to dodge. Maybe it could be conditional. The enemy would have to dodge while the skill was active to have it work.

I still like the idea of a reflect that would affect casting. A gw2 version of Backfire would force other players to be careful of spamming skills.

Actually, I’m a relatively new GW1 player and I find that it’s significantly better in balance than GW2. I might even say, an order of magnitude. I like the skill split.

Granted, it’s a mature game with a lot of development.

I think the basic problem is that GW2 devs keep pushing for a video game style. Fast twitch reactions as opposed to strategy.

As a result of the environment, people pick a build and play it in a stereotypical fashion. That’s what gives you wins. Hit button 2, wait, button 5 etc. One can almost ignore enemy actions if the burst button sequence is fast enough.

That really railroads the game to very specific classes and playstyles. I’m referring to Berserker and heavy armor or high burst. It also encourages skill spam.

In GW1 skill spamming and faceroll style gets you dead fast. In GW2, there really isn’t much of a penalty for just pounding buttons.

That’s a large part of why balance is so difficult to make happen.

I won’t play Unranked because Courtyard is available there. Spirit Watch is a little bit more fun but not by much. I’d like to see both these maps have a separate queue or an opt out.

There should not be anything in the game other than group bosses that is impossible for me to beat. If there is, it’s no longer a game.

I’ve been playing GW1 lately. The differences are pretty stark. I’ll start with some observations and then add some suggestions.

Mesmers of 250 years ago were saboteurs. In that age we punished enemies for doing or not doing specific things. We also disabled enemy powers or even reversed there effects.

This is one reason I really like the scepter. Confusing Images and confusion in general are a punishment mechanic, though nowhere near as strong as say [BackFire] or the old [Diversion].

The scepter block and offhand sword block also offer some punishment and prevention. Still, in the modern era we’re more of a pet class. In my opinion, that’s a real comedown. The change is from cerebral strategic play to reaction speed play.

SUGGESTIONS:

In another thread, I suggested making casting times longer to make interrupt a more viable play style. This would benefit multiple classes. Mesmer and Ranger are historically heavy interrupt classes.

Create a Mesmer reflect for spell effects. This would bring back some of the old play style while being in keeping with the more video gamish pace of gw2. This multi-tool would play a role like that of power drain and would go a long way toward slowing down casting spam.

Bring back punishment for killing illusions. make it killing Phantasms if you must. If it’s considered too strong, make it a GM trait in the Chaos line so that it or PU can be chosen. Making the trait work on phantasms would remove the dodge roll proc that annoyed “Grouch” so much.

I believe removing retaliation from Mesmer was a bad move. [Empathy] is one of the first skills a Mesmer learns in GW1. That is to say, retaliation. In GW2 just about everyone has a chance to proc retaliation. So, Mesmer could have a trait that made retaliation whenever the Mesmer has protection and /or invulnerability.

I started in GW2 and fell in love with the Mesmer concept. Now playing both, I find the GW1 Mesmer far superior. I think that the emphasis on fast reaction over strategy has hurt the present game a lot.

I take back what I’ve said previously. D/d ele’s are way OP and need a major nerf.

I would be bad for a small segment of the community that spends it’s time TP flipping. The reality is that the practice of TP flipping harms the game. It causes outlandish prices. Such prices discourage people like me from buying gold.

I’m a relatively “end-game” player. Roughly 5400 hours have seen me crossing and re-crossing Tyria.

Recently, I’ve been looking to get or build my second legendary, The Incinerator.

Here’s my point; I could easily choose to buy the gems and buy the pretty dagger. The problem isn’t finance it’s the principle of the thing. Speculation has driven the price to something like 300 USD.

That’s just insulting. So, I gameplay for the money. It’s slower, but I don’t feel like I’m being ripped off.

So, ANET loses the money from that transaction. I’d spend 100 USD for a vanity item, but 300 is just beyond the pale for a video game.

In high school history class we would have called this a case of “elastic demand.”

My suggestion; ANET should cap trading post prices to nerf speculation. This will ultimately increase micro transactions and serve the game by keeping prices reasonable.

Guild Wars 1 weapon packs would subvert the Hall of Monuments system. If you want those items, the path is already available.

I am heartened by some of the changes. Mesmer is finally not trash tier. This is my favorite game at over 5 k hours.

Still, I have to admit. ANET doesn’t seem very responsive. My major issue is that they keep pushing toward arcade game skills, rather than strategy and management skills.