Guild Wars 2

morrolan.9608:

Properly sieged towers will have ballistas and trebs to defend against those.

Which you can take out if no one is babysitting them – have been to 4 servers, it’s really rare that someone spends his entire time in a tower – so getthere, build a ballli, get out what you can – attack.

Blix.8021:

when you make defending easy for outnumbered players, you make it miserable for players to take a keep against equal/greater numbers.

30 people against 30 people on a wall with ac support = stupid

Back in the day this is what we did (and what another server did with us today – so the knowledge of it shouldn’t be that ancient) :

Build a treb or catas, get the walls down – works best if the enemies don’t have that much supply.
Build either an additional balli to get as many acs as you can down, if that doesn’t work, ask a mesmer to either port and/or stealth you (you can double dodge through the AC fire though if no mesmer is around), get into the keep/tower, get as many ACs as you can out, retreat, do all of it again, cap keep/tower.

Wvw is better than just karma train, people just need to remember that they need to think in this game mode.

The Mechanic.3567:

Wasnt this disscusion about / d? Please take that p/d argument somewhere else. Im tired of hearing people complain about it. I play D/D, and there is no problem with the way the traits are in my opinion. If you want sustain as a thief D/D is not the weapon set you want. D/D is for damage burst and team kill assist. Youl find yourself more effective if you just spec for max damage, forget the healing in stealth and actually learn to play well. A good thief gets in does damage then gets out.
Oh and btw the “saint” traits arnt a gimmick. Its what makes a thief useful to his team. Its not just about damage. A good thief can pick his team mates up everytime. If your not getting your teamates off the ground your not doing a good job.

I don’t play with a team- I want stuff that’s useful for me and doesn’t force me to play in a team.
Edit: And unfortunately these traits are mandatory/there’s no “better option”. That is my problem with them.

It’s great that D/D still works for you – for most it doesn’t.
(Except in pve)

Agemnon.4608:

If your mouse DPI is too low then you’ll turn slower too.

No the DPI has got nothing to do with how fast you turn.
Edit: Although, yeah you’re right, but as you can see – I already did that ;)
Thought you meant the acceleration, sorry.

BunjiKugashira.9754:

You said you were adjusting your mouse, which indicates the speed that the mouse-cursor moves with. I just told you how to adjust the speed that the camera moves with, without altering the speed of the mouse-cursor.

The patch that completely overhauled the camera system and introduced the camera-sliders was around the same time they introduced first person view. Or was it the same patch? I don’t remember.

Not perfect yet, still have to find a way around the latest patch(es) – if possible.

Zalladi.4652:

Hmm, I’ve never experienced my rotation speed randomly resetting or changing after an update, even throughout the first person view release. So I’m quite confident in saying that it isn’t the first person view that is creating those issues.

I do, I steal, cnd and then backstab with moving my character 90° which is impaired with each patch.
My hope for this thread is that anet reads it, takes me seriously (because they can see whether or not their changes have an impact on 3. person view) and separates both options.
Like I said: I’m well aware that a lot/most people don’t notice the changes, but I do. And maybe it affects all of you, you just don’t realize it.

Trinnitty.8256:

You’ll get reused to it. Human brains adapt pretty good.

My brain is pretty good, but my wrist hurts.

BunjiKugashira.9754:

I guess the changes you mentioned that make you feel your “movement is restricted” were the changes to the camera in general. The first person view has nothing to do with how fast your camera turns, however in the big camera patch they introduced some new camera sliders. One of those sliders is called Rotationspeed. If you feel your camera rotates too slow just move the slider more to the right.

Already did that, and in fact I already said that I’m trying to adjust my mouse with each patch – a) it takes a lot of time, b) people are calling me crazy because my way to move in this game seems to be pretty unique, c) I can’t turn the speed up much more because it’s pretty much maxed out already – but now I miss the stuff I want to hit.

I don’t know of any patch which changed the camera in general, might be true, but still my problems started 1-2 weeks after the introduction of 1. person view and yesterday I noticed that on the one hand the camera improved as it would move back slightly after adjusting the character with right mouse click, which it doesn’t anymore, but I can’t get to the angle I want anymore – after some hours of testing I read that changes had been made to 1. person view- so I’m pretty certain that it correlates.

ScribeTheMad.7614:

Can you describe exactly what changes had what effect?

Your argument is kind of vague on those specifics so it’s difficult to get behind your position when I don’t really understand what your asking for.

Already described it: have to turn your mouse more to get the same effect – rotation speed only helps that much and I have to adjust it with every (sometimes unnanounced) change made for first person view – which is annoying.

Zalladi.4652:

1) You can turn it off in your Options. Otherwise, I really don’t understand how it has impacted your “steering”? Simply removing it would make a lot of players angry, especially as it is already an optional component.

2) See the latest patch notes:

Notes

“Altered arrow cart line-of-sight checks to be more restrictive.” – Source

Because the angle you need to turn your mouse to turn your character is the same for first and third person view – so I have to turn more and more to get the same effect, yet still my movement is restricted because of changes made to movement because of third person view – doesn’t matter whether or not I have turned it off.

If you read the thread I linked a bit further you’ll notice that now the defensive means of ACs are messed up (which was kind of logical).

I chose the title to be “catchy”. I still don’t care about first person view, so everybody who wants to have it should have it, as long as it doesn’t mess everything else up which it currently does.

I don’t care for first person view and I was all “yeah alright, let those who want to have it have it” when it was introducted.
The problem: it inflicts my own game play as

1) There’s no separate options for in game “steering”, so all changes made to first person view movement impact mine and that not in a positive way, I can’t move like I used to, I have to try and to adjust my mouse options with every change and yet still am not able to play like I used to. I’m aware that not everybody notices this and that I might have a unique way of moving in this game – still I notice changes made to “first person view” before I read there were changes made to it.

2) First person view messed up how wvw works big time:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Fix-the-AC-Exploit-now

So either remove it, or separate it from third person view for good.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

They lose SA survivability to gain that offence if you don’t realise this.

Before the SA gm minor might stacking allowed SA thieves to stack enough might to be on same/higher power level as DA traited thief without signet might stacking. Pure offence thief had dps advantage only at start of a fight, all without SA surivability.

I think that was stupid design.

What survivability did and does SA have?

And it wasn’t the same level – it was still lower.

Edit: But true, no one gets power from that line anymore – I just wish that things were a bit more balanced.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Can you explain why you think that SA thief should have same/nearly same offence capacity like a full offence traited thief?

Because now you stand no chance against someone who’s build pure offensive. They could 3 shot you before the patch, you had your stealth and if they failed the first time around they didn’t have good chances to survive. I think that was pretty smart design.

Clusterbomb does 1,428 dmg, unload a total of 2,448 – I don’t see how the 5 initative isn’t justified in comparison – even more so as dodging a clusterbomb as a whole is a lot easier that dodging 8 shots of unload. So, your argument that clusterbomb does as much damage as unload doesn’t fit – unless I’ve gotten you wrong.
If you decreased the damage further the whole purpose of clusterbomb would be blast finisher – and it is kind of at that point. If you’d increase the speed it would mess up a lot of combos – and that in thief and his allies favour – “want to get 25 might stacks in 3 secs? no problem!”

4s reveal was/is a mistake in pvp and I’d rather have it removed from pvp than to adjust pve and wvw to it as – the damage in wvw is a bit higher, the conditions are a bit more dangerous and most of thief’s sustain is still tied to stealth. Also I’d like to keep my D/D rotation in dungeons. I don’t think the purpose of making one single trait useful justifies an increase to 4s.

Again: None of what makes D/P great has got anything to do with any other weapon set – it’s a pretty balanced weapon set which has got pretty good traits in SA – but most of it isn’t of use for other thief builds – so you’d rather want to buff other builds than to nerf D/P as in the end even that build is mediocre at best in comparison to other classes right now.

Edit: Typos – a lot of typos.

OK, I admit it – I have no real idea what this thread is about – looks either a bit weird or I’m brain afk today.

Why is it always P/P when you guys moan about thief?
Ranged weapons shouldn’t do as much/more damage than melee weapons – we currently have the opposite with rangers and mesmers and also warriors -that promotes lazy and passive gameplay – and of course pirate ship meta – which is plain boring.
Don’t decrease anything further on SB, please – it’s in a pretty bad spot and I’m not really sure how #2 is a projectile anyway.

Saw this too late:

Side note, can we please normalize reveal to 4 seconds in WvW?

Ok, a troll post.

Veritas.2196:

Coming back from a 2 year break from the game, and it seems that thieves are now wanted in groups for their stealth capabilities. However, the meta seems to be D/D. When I left, S/P for trash (b/c even though its less damage than D/D, ability to hit more than one target cause more damage overall) and switch to D/D for bosses w/ Shortbow on switch was the optimal set w/ Berserker gear.

Now it seems like its just D/D and Shortbow? Did they nerf sword or pistol oh or something that makes it really that inefficient?

Dagger 1 hits 2 targets – shortbow hits a lot of mobs.
I still use either D/D or S/P and SB as my second – have to know what is up ahead though.

Neesh.9012:

-Keep the reward structure it had in Scarlet Invasion.

I disagree – the rewards here are not really thought through, yes, BUT we’ve had a major fight (the whole server) during the scarlet invasions because the commanders (were few back in the day) rather wanted to farm the neverending flood of aetherblade champs than to complete the event. So those who wanted to complete it stood no chance.

The last halloween event was awesome actually, 2013 not so much as there was no loot – I don’t have to get valuable stuff everywhere, but something that makes it worthy to do an event. I don’t know if the halloween event was different because the map had a lower cap than open world, so it’s unlikely that additional champs spawn, or whatever was different.

Wvw isn’t that different, just that we kill each other
Cynz explained to me why SA as it is is really good in pvp right now – and hey I understood it – doesn’t help me much in wvw though.

And to be honest; we explained to you why this likely wouldn’t work. You still need to defend yourself and even as a soldier’s you’re not tanky but don’t do damage.
Maybe I should give PvP another shot. Problem is: How to get the MUST KILL out of my head?

Iason Evan.3806:

snip

(Haven’t read all of it though)

So,on the one hand you want AI, on the other you want events to be removed from the map as it’s too hard?
The events have always been around and I have no idea whether or not it’s easy to remove them – but they never bothered me. More mobs to kill = more loot.

Also, this event was only 3-4 days in low level maps, have you been around during the marionette event? It took us quite a while to coordinate that – more than 4 days (there were no megaservers around back then which made it a bit harder).

In the end, I think the only thing that went wrong with this event was the waiting time between the events – and the rewards.

But one thing I forgot from season 1, which was the reason I always quit an event early, was the constant bickering.

GUTB.8436:

snip

I like my Charr a lot and I think Charrs have the coolest emotes.

And in fact a friend of mine rerolled his warrior main to be a Charr and afterwards only created Charr after he saw mine :P
(Well, and half of the guards and warrior in wvw are Charr – who then need to be rerolled into humans to not stick out of the crowd – although the crowd is basically them.)

ETA: Pic because “come on – you can’t deny that this looks good!”

Kageseigi.2150:

snip

Don’t think that works with thief. Tried a soldier’s zerg build – doesn’t really work. Ran around with my soldier’s/clerics warrior in wvw yesterday (I know that’s a bit different from pvp) and met a D/D thief which I only realized when I looked at the damage he did: 2,5 crit CnD, 2,2 k non crit backstab (maybe he caught my front). Maybe he was a tanky build and he was killed by my server mates, but I don’t think he had a chance against me and my experience on warrior in wvw is 2 hours. Still I managed to kill 100 peeps within an hour – kind of silly.

TLDR: Tanky builds don’t work for thief and even a glassy high damage thief can’t one shot and has got a problem with tanky classes. I bet though that some people can pull it off.

ETA: I know a full soldier’s thief in wvw who’s pretty good – I lost against him, but then again; lags and he was D/P when I met him.
ETA²: My mindset comes from: I have been soldier’s, didn’t work for me after the introduction of ferocity, so I went valk/zerker – so maybe it does work and I’m wrong.

A few more shots

Tormance.6387:

What’s the point of offering specific suggestions as a way to improve this event when there are no plans to change it or repeat it?

For upcoming events maybe – and I hope there will be more invasion events.

Vayne.8563:

And add them up between all 4 accounts. lol

Yes, that such a hard task when the total number is somewhat around 30.

Vayne.8563:

I have like 30 characters. I don’t know exactly because after 24 I stopped counting. lol

You can see how many slots/slots in use you have when logging in.

On topic: 13

Come to think of it – why isn’t our guild called “me [NERF]” ?

ETA: or “me please [BUFF]” for those who are beyond desperate

You guys are really spoilt
There’s “mandatory” lines for every weapon set but you can still play them without these lines – we did so before.

ETA: Even D/P which might need initative the most.

Timiok.1048:

snip

Don’t know, haven’t tried staff, but I ran without trickery for 1,5 years (except when i was a condi thief for a short time) – the line is just too good to not take it. Because of 4 reasons: exta initiative, swiftness/might/fury, daze, condi remove. Edit: 5 reasons: extra damage per initative.
I would be rather sad if all of this was nerfed just because you want to take other lines ;)

meepeY.2867:

Yo dudes,

It’s strange but where ever I look, if a Thief is ever mentioned outside of the Thief section, there’s loads of hate for some reason.

I’m kind of semi-new when it comes to the forums, I’ve never really found much’a reason to come on here.

Did we do something to offend everyone? I see a lot of people calling us over-powered, or we have broken stealth mechanics, ect.

Could someone please enlighten me as to why we’re getting the verbal boot?

I’d say it’s because of stealth but mesmers, although a lot more dangerous in their current state, don’t get as much hate, I think.
Good question though, thief has had some nerf just before I started to play (thief) and I literally had zergs following me around the whole map just to kill me.
Since then things calmed down a bit, just the usual rangers who hate thieves which are gone for now as well and elitist thieves who call every other thief a scrub.
But in the end I think it is because playing thief successfully requires more skill than any other class, so those who call thieves OP might have tried thief themselves, found that they can’t pull it off and went back to cry “NERF”.

ScribeTheMad.7614:

Except that you had what 2 weeks? 4 weeks? to get it done?
We have 4 days, and its 450 blooms.

With the exception that the heirlooms had to be found all over LA – so you had to run through all LA each day to get your 30 heirlooms a day – I didn’t do it.

Edit: This is to the thread in general:
And there’s a pro and a con to each side – yes it’s nice to have exclusive stuff, yes it’s nice to get a chance to get stuff that has been in game before even if one hasn’t been around back then.
There’s quite a few skins from former events I’d like to have.

Sagat.3285:

They could add blind on top of vuln. Does that fit under all now? Only 1 person said “replace”.

Yes, but one has to be careful on this forum
And I happen to love my set.

Edit: But yes, fact is: D/D needs help, that means the traits concerning D/D and offhand D could use a rework- but please be careful with that as I want to keep my playstyle and I don’t want something entirely new.
Also blind added to CnD would make CiS obsolete – we’d need a new trait.

Maugetarr.6823:

Fixes that I think could bring D/D up to par without making it overpowering:

1) Blind instead of vuln on CnD (as seems to be the general concensus)

No, please – give me my CiS back instead – I want to keep my vulnerability.

D4 could use a buff, yes – I like DB as it is though, a slight buff maybe but no experiments, please.

And I’m saying this as a D/D main – I’m using this set for a while now (1,5 years).

Just in before the devs think your points are what all thieves want.

Bug Fix

/15 char

laquito.5269:

I didn’t realize I was talking to a WvW player, not gonna waste my time any longer. Your suggestion would only work on SA, offhand dagger needs a baseline buff though, not just SA.

So you think wvw players have got no clue and no right to say something depending thief class balance?

FYI: No D/P thief has ever taken CiS – although metabattle might have advertised it just like side strikes which makes no real sense for a CS BS, SA, T thief, but alas.

We are well aware that D/D needs a buff, problem is that buffing offhand dagger also means that P/D and S/D might be buffed – so in the end it doesn’t really matter, as if you buff the traits you’ll buff: P/D, D/P and D/D and maybe staff, don’t know too much about staff. If you buff offhand dagger, you’ll buff S/D and P/D and D/D. S/D will already get a nice buff with the DD line- but they’ll likely not take SA.
The reason why D/P seems to be “OP” right now is that all traits which were of use for D/D were basically removed wheras those favouring D/P remained or got a slight buff. So, buffing the line would likely not further buff D/P as they already got their traits. They could even replace the gimmicky saint traits and it would still not make D/P more OP as D/D and P/D would also have access to them.

Edit: forgot a comma

Well, at least we have the “NEEEEERFFF” trolls back – I don’t feel so broken now.

Midi.8359:

If it’s any bit reassuring: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/so-how-do-you-kill-ele/first#post5445425 (In case you haven’t seen it already).

Don’t get my hopes up with stuff like this – in the end I will be left crying!

T raw.4658:

I’m guessing you missed the video of the fella winning duels running a condi thief with no weapons?

If Anet would require Power/Precision/Condi damage as the ONLY way to pump condi damage then we might be able to have a conversation about skill and condi thieves in the same sentence.

Either way its not happening and you are doing yourself a disservice by playing p/d condi.

You do realize that these videos were made before the patch, right?

Substance E.4852:

If this is how you play WvW then you are doing it wrong.

Like I said before: I haven’t been to that event when I made the comment, but we basically play for no reward in wvw – that was my point.

And it kind of is “the same” I go to where I am needed.

There you go, Gaile, probably more to come:
(Brisban Wildlands)

I like the event – it’s basically scarlet’s invasion all over – grouping up with random people, running around a bit mindless while chatting – it’s good =)

Fernling.1729:

What worries me is the fact that there were people in /m talking about how much fun they are having doing it and that they don’t even care about getting no rewards. Are people really so easily entertained? This is the epitome of terrible gameplay.

Haven’t been to the event, but that is basically what we do in wvw
And we have fun.

Sagat.3285:

If Last Refuge was reworked and showed an icon when it’s off CD maybe, the fall trait was an extra for WvW. I doubt we will ever see SE baseline especially since they nerfed it just facetank that blind and weakness. I would be calm just knowing CnD got blind baseline or CiS is back at master tier.

If anything the extra initiative from Trickery should be baseline. There a couple traits like this for every class Fast Hands for war,Vital Persistence for necro etc.

I don’t need extra initative as a D/D thief ;)
But: If anyone takes SA, they take shadows embrace, so why not make it a baseline?

@cynz – yeah it always leads to: “How stupid are you taking the falling trait?! Bwahahaha” “but I want CiS” “Bwhahahaha a bit blind – are you stupid? Bwhahahaha”
From fellow thieves, btw ;) (although S/D and D/P)

Sagat.3285:

Put the fall damage into adept instead next to Last Refuge it deserves it

Honestly; it has saved me some times, last refuge has saved me as well, but I can’t take it anymore anyway as it’s in the same tier kitten and I don’t think anyone who has ever used SA has not taken SE, maybe we should make that a minor trait.

T raw.4658:

2. Jana: Notice I said prepatch. Post yes the condis were nerfed, but its still very strong. I believe buffing the defense lines takes precedence over OH dagger.

Not sure actually as all of it works together. Whether you make a trait with blind on stealth or make CnD blind on stealth… is not that much difference as P/D thieves take SA as well. Only S/D might not take it, but as I said; few of them actually use D #5.
Come to think of it: Remove the falling damage trait from Cis and give it to Shadow protector and make that a GM (which no one would ever take).

Traw: All condis thief has got access to have been nerfed, so P/D isn’t as powerful as it used to be. S/D will become the second set next to D/P with DD but they don’tuse stealth as much, so I don’t think that moving CiS to a lower tier or blind on CnD would do much harm.

I doubt I’ll get used to it – I don’t play EotM because of four reasons:
1) getting anywhere takes ages
2) me falling off the map while sorting my inventory which is my usual past time when I have to run for a bit
3) it feels unbalanced – not because “the green servers control everything” but because of the “buffs” given to who controls the side and the map design.
and 4) PvE players and yes too many PvE aspects.

Maybe really start with a plain and simple map that has some more complicated keeps.

Laquito: D/P doesn’t need a nerf – don’t compare thief vs thief, compare thief with other classes. If you do that you’ll find that even D/P thief is a joke compared to what most other classes can do.

I agree with most of what has been said in this thread so far: the maps and keeps are huge. I’ve been in one keep which was attacked and honestly had no idea where to go – I got lost on the way and then died to lava.
Anyway – it takes ages to get anywhere, ages to sweep, and the choke points are zerg killers. I don’t think I would spend much time in wvw on these maps.
Also I’m not that sure if buffs given from shrines are really a good idea.
Haven’t been testing for long though as I didn’t know I was a tester.

Thunderbird.8036:

am also happy Jana.6831 has good reflexes at his age 30+ as indicated. Not offering argument here but I am near double that, my mind and reflexes are slower hence no pvp etc.

Her age. It’s a bit more than 30 And I’m aware that there are people who’s reflexes aren’t that good, but I don’t think that age alone is the reason – a lot of people might think so, though.

Thunderbird.8036:

Also Jana.6831 I may have missed the part where anyone said you do not know how to play.

I was answering the bulk of you who claimed that condition builds require as much skill as power builds. I didn’t neccessarily just answer you. In PvE skill doesn’t really matter (as long as there’s some people who know what they’re doing and who pull “you” through).

Thunderbird.8036:

But I think my main point was I enjoy playing the game on a simpler play style and if Anet took up the challenge to make all play styles really difficult only real pros could get enjoyment out of the game.

That’s all good and in PvE all power to you players – but competitive play is something different and that’s when condi builds “shine”.

Thunderbird.8036:

possibly pvp/wvw should be treated differently to pve like some different stats or traits or whatever so what affects one good or bad does not impact on the other.

That would be both good and bad and a huge problem for anet and for the players.
I play all aspects of this game, mainly wvw. Before June patch I ran one build in all 3 modes – I knew how it worked. But it didn’t/doesn’t work in pvp as pvp had/has different rules for my spec. You know revealed, the debuff of thieves (or anyone who was stealthed and attacked from stealth)? During this time they can’t stealth again. It’s 3 seconds in wvw/pve, 4 seconds in pvp – I can’t get used to the 4 seconds as the 3 seconds are intuition. Also I have now 2 different builds in wvw and pve which leads to troubles in the other game mode because I forget that I can’t jump down from that mountain or forget that I won’t immobilize this enemy. Not as bad as the 4s though.
The other problem would be for anet: All classes need to be balanced in all game modes as if they don’t do it, certain classes would be excluded from content – so ideally you want all classes to be equally strong, even in pve. So if they separated all game modes they’d have to balance each mode separately as well and that would be a lot of work. To be honest; their method of balancing everything by observing pvp did work. Only problem I had was that they forgot about wvw and condis.
So, in my opinion the easiest way to “balance” right now is to have a look at the means of condi removal – that way you won’t interfere with PvE too much as you don’t really need to remove condis in PvE and help those who are into pvp/wvw. You will be as strong against mobs but less strong against other players who still have to use their brain to remove what you throw at them. In most cases, if it’s passive condi removal, then not.

Thunderbird.8036:

Personally I think the game is pretty balanced overall ( well actually I would like to be able to do more damage & survive more than I do) allowing for choices in play style and if it is not just play the class you are most happy with, or you currently consider the strongest. And by all means start a thread and share an opinion just like Chris McSwag did, love it or hate it.

In PvE it probably is, yes and I’m already playing the class I love the most – against all odds in my preferred game mode.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Blindness meh.

All 3 last weaponskills of X/P blind.

My bad: Headshot doesn’t

apocom.3172:

I can log on my ele with like 5-7 hours of gameplay and destroy thieves with over 1000 hours without any problems.

Most boring 1 vs 1: cele ele vs cele ele

I lost because I left my computer.