Guild Wars 2

Lamuness.3570:

I’ve never played a full glass D/D in WvW before. I should try it now. I’d love to hit a 20k BS, but I don’t even have enough points to get the atk stat increase from guards, nor do I have WvW infusions because I still play fractals.

Thanks DeceiverX

You get higher numbers if the opponent is close to be downed.
Although I managed to pull a 6k CnD + 18? K backstab off myself -against a glassy thief right after the patch, and no he wasn’t my friend, so watch out.

X T D.6458:

snip

Block them as well and none of you will have each other on any of their lists.

Edit: Except the person remembers your name and unblocks you, I think then you will be perma offline to them.

DeceiverX.8361:

the cleansing capability of SE in regards to DoT’s, which in the case you mentioned above, were assumed to be responsible for your death in garri, has improved substantially since the 6/23 patch. The only direct nerf to SE/SA as a whole is that its stealth effects go into effect after the third second instead of at the beginning of first stealth, i.e.,

No, it starts the moment you enter stealth, don’t ask me if the “pulse” is now slower, I just know that I can’t get the conditions off of me. Maybe that’s also because the other classes can apply them faster, I don’t know. It’s not better than before; I could prevent being feared out of my SR, I could get rid of immobilize and cripple and all the other nice stuff, now I’m bound to stay in AoE as I can’t get out of it because of cripple/immobilize and I still have that 5 stacks of confusion on me which kills me within a few ticks (I proposed a similar fashion like boon stealing for condi cleanse – that might have been an improvement).

DeceiverX.8361:

it will now shed DoT conditions faster, as the previous priority system used to cleanse based on FIFO queue, regardless of their potency or how close to death you were.

Answered above, you’re now bound to stay in aoe – yay more condis applied to you!

DeceiverX.8361:

Your death in garri, if attributed to conditions, would have only been faster given SE before the 6/23 changes, and only may have been avoidable because of the changes. If you died instead from physical damage, you made play mistakes somewhere ranging anything from a misplaced/early evade or shadowstep, improper mobility skill use, poor initiative management, just being in the wrong situation by letting the zerg run over you, hitting a stealth trap and not realizing it, etc.).

I run with the zergs in evenings, I made no mistake =)
I’m doing so for now 1,5 years. And yeah, I’m still a solo roamer “JOOOST GET THAT DOLLY!!” (no honestly, I still am).
Just saying that withdraw and 10s stealth should prevent my death but they don’t.

DeceiverX.8361:

As far as Nightblade goes, he’s a good thief. Yes, his and my styles are quite different, and most of the video recording he does involves outnumbered fights and the subsequent use and abuse of the defenses from SA to overcome situations which normally “shouldn’t” occur. A build like mine doesn’t get as much reset flexibility, or must instead rely on learning opponents’ cooldowns and pulling a full OOC reset and striking between critical skills. As such, it kills much faster, meaning that with skilled play, it doesn’t need as much reset potential.

I don’t think that any of your fights lasts longer than one minute. Learning to time the skills of your opponent is a skill itself, yes, kudos, I couldn’t analyze the whole build of my opponent and all it’s lowered cooldowns within half a minute.
Anyway that’s a bit much to ask for of every thief, isn’t kitten? And let’s be honest; most if not all classes have got means to do the same – if I were still a ranger (f.e. – the class I know second best, I’m a bit ashamed to admit it) I would use LB 3 and GS 4 as often as possible when waiting for cooldowns to wear off. The same like a thief who CnDs on his opponent.

DeceiverX.8361:

As far as grammar goes, don’t worry too much with me unless it’s really bad or changes the meaning of the post. I likely won’t notice as much/mine probably isn’t as good as normal as I have some substantial abrasion on my right cornea after an accident Monday morning, making parts of my vision rather blurry :P

I (almost) always say what I’ve edited in my posts, unless I notice a mistake right after posting it. I think it’s fairer so people see the “edited” and know what I’ve changed.

Edit (yes) : Maybe the way conditions work right now is completely out of control and that is also a factor why thief condi removal doesn’t really work, but all conditions are damaging and SA gets off 50% of them, withdraw and trickery (does anyone still use hide in shadows btw?) remove 25%, so that’s still 25% of condis I can’t get rid off. I could go SA, Trickery and Acro – but honestly if that really is neccessary, then let’s just call it bad design!

Amante.8109:

I felt that it was relevant to General as well, since it involved a game-wide systems change that only one profession was left out of.

That they never seem to read this forum also contributed a little bit

Well, if it’s any comfort: at least the mod who moved your complaint has read it. And believe me: any complaint about thieves will be heard =)

Amante.8109:

On another note, this thread was just moved by a moderator to the Thief subforum, so there goes the chances of it ever seeing the eyes of a developer.

Oh well…

And you tried that hard to disguise your thief-complaint!

Come to think of it: Where’s Zero?

See it this way: They could’ve given thief a useful trait.

Mefiq.7039:

Had 450ap(new player) Mesmer in team, he started flaming thief for stealth build…

Happened to me in wvw today too – and he had to call his friends to kill me – some really sad mesmer.

Hey, my clock is made of steel, so better step back!

Boysenberry.1869:

I’m in tier 1 NA and I rarely see a queue on the maps anymore. Even at reset the queues are brief and quite small. I’m hoping some population returns when HoT is finally released (March 2053). Stale match-ups and virtually no new content added to the game for months has probably caused a lot of people to leave and take a break.

That’s likely because all the players are on their secondary accounts working to get YB into T1 or whatever their plan was and also to trick anet into believing T1 isn’t full anymore so the servers open up again. I don’t think T1 is “dead” ;)

Edit: Embarrassing grammar – I hope no one has quoted me ;)

DeceiverX.8361:

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree, frankly, though I firmly stand by my statement that D/D is less-dependent on SA due to less of a need for initiative refunding from Rejuv. SE is one of the best traits on the thief, and I’d argue all thief builds could benefit immensely from it, as it closes one of the biggest gaps on the class, but I still wouldn’t claim that D/D needs it the most.

DA/CS/Trickery offers substantially more damage than CS/SA/Trickery, and substantially more reliable damage than DA/SA/Trickery. This is truly compounded when not playing with builds such as signets, however.

Well, SA is more useless to D/D thieves than to D/P thieves because D/D thieves can’t use the traits they had anymore – I wrote in another thread why the changes of SA are especially bad for D/D.
If you use D/D to primarily one shot people, then you don’t need SA, true, as you’ve got one chance to down them. My playstyle is different from yours – watch nightblades videos to get an idea of how I fight (he’s better than me, though, yes I’m a fangirl). I don’t really want to one shot people, although it can be fun, but I guess I’m more in for the mind games.

SE is good for every weapon set, yes, but all other weapon sets have means to either avoid AoE or to cleanse condis, that’s why SE and the whole SA line as it had been was crucial for D/D thieves. It still works somehow, but I was in Garri today, zerg fight and have been caught in the enemy zerg for a bit, got condis on me, don’t remember if I used withdraw and then SR, guess I did, but I do know that I used SR, stood there for 10 seconds, nothing else happened and I dropped – that’s so depressing, honestly.

Edit: Grammar

DeceiverX.8361:

Just to make sure I’m not missing something important. If I am, I’d love to incorporate it into my play if it won’t fundamentally change the build.

On the contrary, D/P almost requires SA due to the massive initiative dump that BP+HS is. Blowing the utilities early to avoid needing to do this then also becomes no different than playing something like signets.

When against condition builds, I use Sword/IS + IR a lot, + Trickster on Withdraw so I have much fewer problems with cleansing than previously before the patch, and usually finish off after my burst in S/D to get a bit better sustain and evasion presence while forcing blown mobility effects from my foes, CC’ing, blinding, stealing boons/unblockable attacks, etc. Don’t you also play with Berserker gear? That alone provides much less condition damage tolerance than anything like my setup as it would require substantially faster cleanses on the DoT conditions – something which the changes to SE actually improved upon since the 6/23 patch. Conditions were my initial reasoning behind investing in Valkyrie gear – I formulated extra damage out of it as a side-effect when optimizing in detail one day after the release of Furious Stones.

I usually don’t find myself picking particular targets, no. Usually, I’ll give most people a try, and simply escape via IS/IR, steal, CnD, HS, and Withdraw if I need to. I’ve been avoiding a lot of condi PU mesmers lately, as the confusion stacks deal so much damage that the act of cleansing them will take out half of my health, but I think it goes without saying that said build hard-counters most thief specs that don’t push into aggressive cleansing, and is absolutely a hard-counter to my own. I can always tail and kill them after they engage a camp of meaningful objective, though, as enough of their cooldowns will usually be blown to let me do so quite successfully. Otherwise, if it’s a straggler, I usually engage unless I have good reason not to, such as suspected stealthed enemies or others nearby, and even then that depends on classes.

So? Yes, the patch was okayish for everything but D/D which needed SA the most.
If you want to one shot your opponents they likely don’t really have a chance, but then again I have never seen you fighting, so all I can do is guess, but what I would do if I were running your build was to wait for single targets (if solo roaming).

I have got 4 thieves at 80, all of them D/D one has got P/D as a second set(my condi thief), although all of them have got all weapons availlable to thief anyway.
My main has got valk armor, rest zerker (some valk+ zerker trinkets) with my old and now rather useless runes of strength.
Another is full zerker with runes of the pack.
Another is 20% more valk than my main and has got an assassins dagger with sigil of perception (first ascended dagger I crafted, that’s why) and she’s got runes of hoelbrak.
Fourth thief has got a cavalier/valk/zerker mix with runes of the traveller, rest zerker, some day I’ll get around and change her gear.

There’s no real difference between them in wvw, although I tried DA,SA, T with my full zerker pack thief yesterday. Worked pretty good but then again my game is lagging really bad (has been even worse during the beta weekend), so I can’t really say who won what fight because of what.

DeceiverX.8361:

Jana.6831:

I doubt that your build has any more purpose than one shotting people. Which is ok, but don’t say it’s “a roaming build”

Why, because it doesn’t use SA or because it’s not part of some kind of stealth-optimized-outnumbered-sustaining-soft-CC-abusing rotation build? I’m sorry, but this build works fine for me. If you feel the need, I can hook you up with one of my server’s most well-known commanders who will gladly tell you just how well I frontline 40-man blobs using the same build, too.

Honestly, the only time I usually ever go down is taking RF’s from multiple power longbow rangers or situations where I’d have to or by reasons of reasonable game balance, should have to run to begin with (5/6+ v 1) and the odd guy playing the really unused build really well (I once found this M/S guard that I couldn’t fight against for the life of me, and props to him).

The build has nothing to do with its potential. It’s how well you play it and how well you utilize what you have. I’ve played D/D SA/Acro, D/P meta (old and new), P/D condi, S/P, and S/D main. I found anything involving SA completely imbalanced and faceroll-easy, especially when paired with fire/air sigils. Yes, there are some really bad matchups which when playing on the safe side, should probably be avoided, but that’s not really different from sPvP and for the most part is resolved through using S/D alternate over SB.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s designed to one-shot people, but if I really need to get permanent stealth for some reason (of which I have no idea now), I can always trait into SA on the fly. Currently, mesmers can permanently stealth themselves just fine utilizing some adjusted utilities and swapping in SB for blasts on SS.

Why do you even ask why I think so if you confirm it two paragraphs later?
I ran without SA for a bit after the patch – I can imagine that it works for D/P and for some fights for D/D but in the end the condi remove without SA is that bad that it isn’t really viable. But then again the condi remove with SA is maybe 20% better – thanks to all who wanted to have SA nerfed (I’m looking in your direction, yes).
Also running around with 3 signets isn’t. I can imagine it works for you but you likely pick your fights differently than most of us.

Would be nice if we had a dev joining us but on the other hand it had to be at least 3 to 4; D/P, D/D, S/D and P/D – as all of us bash each other’s heads in as we’re all playing different specs, so maybe no one can be an expert on all weapon sets thief (or any class) has got – I don’t know.

Losing patience with anet to be honest.
Their weird class desing choices are bad enough, having balance every half a year or so is just a no.
But in the end the latest patch broke that much class/balance wise, that they will have to nerf 3/4 of it anyway- that will take about 2 years. In the mean time we have an expansion, so another bunch of weird choices which need to be nerfed again as well.. so give or take 3 years until there’s some sort of balance, then the next expansion will come and all of it will start again.

Zero Day.2594:

It’s starting…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Chronomancer-will-get-permanent-invisibility/first

We will now have to share the delicious tears.

Memphisjz.1405:

To keep it short, here is some motivation/insights as to why there is a problem:

Exhibit A: Lower tier crafting material is expensive
Exhibit B: The most lucrative use for karma is to buy low level gear, MF forge it, and salvage it for lower tier materials.
Exhibit C: People do not level their characters on purpose just to get more lower level gear (chests etc.)

I thought I’d only be able to get lower level materials with lower level characters too – but that isn’t true. You can get all low level materials by farming low level areas. You get a bit less because the gear will mostly (not always) be level appropriate and even by salvaging low level weapons you’ll likely get an ancient wood log and an ori. Anyway: farm mobs who drop lootbags. I’m farming bandits in queensale and have got a lot of jute. There are also spots in fireheart rise where you can farm linen and so on.
Only when you solemly use EotM to level you’ll be better off with lower level characters as the loot that drops there is 97% level appropriate.

Edit: spelling

bump bump

/15 char

Tongku.5326:

I would like a WvW exclusive as well, one that is based of off total lifetime kills and stomps in WvW and some keep caps (not tower, not camps, not SMC but keeps and gari).

It would be very easy to impliment as these are already tracked via WvW achievements and would fairly represent effort.

Don’t think me solo capping camps is worth less than a zerg capping a keep.
I’d like to have all rank ups and badges removed from EotM though.

Maugetarr.6823:

Well simply limiting it to damaging condis could be seen as both a strentgh and a weakness. Yes, it won’t remove everything, but if you get condi bombed, instead of leaving you to melt in stealth, it will attempt to remove all the damaging condis from you rather than removing the utility condis. Yeah, this can leave you open to getting immobilized in stealth though and taking additional damage on top of what you have already. I guess it could be reverted, but I doubt it will happen which is why I didn’t suggest it.

Yeah, I get what anet intended to do, I think they did the same with ele but isn’tworking for D/D thief, that’s why I’m always argueing about it.
I also like the idea that you can take trickster and tricks recharge faster and remove a condition. I mean it’s great on paper- in reality we all use more or less the same skills as everything else is “useless”, so these traits don’t really work for us.

Maugetarr.6823:

This is basically supposed to be an offensive version of Infiltrators Strike. First, I’ve removed the bounce and doubled the single target damage. If you hit with Dancing Dagger, you’ll get a rollover skill replacing dancing dagger. This rollover will shadowstep you to your foe and remove a condition. This is intended to help with D/D’s lack of gap closers and utility. This would also help with the fact that Shadow’s embrace no longer removes utility condis because it could be made up for those not being removed by using this skill instead.

That would be great, true. (Thanks for explaining it to me again)

Maugetarr.6823:

The problem is though that SA is strong enough defense-wise that they can’t really put offense back into it. I would rather other classes have to make a choice between going offensive or defensive as well when they pick a line rather than getting both. As a replacement though, if you were going 2/0/6/0/6, you can now go full into Deadly Arts and get the damage boost. I think that’s also the reason they split the lines like they did since you get a full damage line now.

See, that’s the problem: for a D/P thief all of this is no problem, for a D/D thief it is and that was why I meant that all lines should be both offensive and defensive – this is a difficult topic. I can one shot people (with D/D) with the traits availlable to me, I can outplay them with D/P without taking SA but as a D/D thief who roams I need defense – so anet has to find a balance between these one shot builds and those who want to play the class differently and also to find a balance between D/P and D/D who have access to the same traits. That’s why I really think that putting defense and offense in every line is the best way to go.

Maugetarr.6823:

I mean, it’s a free stealth attached to steal and with the proposed damage reduction on fall and stealth on fall it would increase your survivability.

I use CiS and my guild is always confused why they’re all stealthed after we jumped off of something. And I forget that I don’t use SA in PvE which makes me underestimate heigths. But honestly: It is a useless trait to me – both of them are, I’d rather have a might trait for that but then again I’d also like CiS and Shadow Rejuvenation and SE, so might would’ve to be a minor again.

Edit: Typos again.

Maugetarr.6823:

I actually didn’t realize fear was no longer taken off during stealth. I can see why they did it though; It seems like they wanted SE to basically only remove damaging conditions, so I don’t think that would get reverted.

Still conditions eat me up, that while using SA and Trickery/trickster and 2 tricks – most tricks don’t really work with SR which is my main source for getting rid of condis and still SA only removes maybe 50% and that really slowly. So SA alone doesn’t work against condis and I don’t think that any other class has to take 2 “defensive” trait lines to get rid of condis. And all of them have got a higher health pool – so I don’t see why SE shouldn’t get reworked. Maybe to “Clear a condition every 1 or 2 instead of 3 seconds” and include priorities maybe, although being able to clear fear is really crucial, especially in SR – I mean it wasn’t automatically but you had to think to do it – don’t see why that needs to be punished.

Maugetarr.6823:

Proposed Dagger #4 was intended to help with this though. Moving the blind to CnD will cover most of the blind that you need (putting it at least on the board when comparing it to D/P, but for less ini).

I don’t really know how your proposed #4 skill is meant, to be honest – likely a language barrier. I’d like it to immobilize or/and interrupt and maybe that’s what you meant, I don’t know. I hardly use that skill because it’s wonky and costs too much initative for doing so little.

Maugetarr.6823:

As for Offensive/Defensive lines, Trickery is a utility line mostly. It does weird stuff that could be considered either. On the other ones though, for thieves in particular, they made a clear delineation between Offensive and Defensive lines with Invigorating precision being the odd man out (and mug I guess). I went forward with that theme in mind.

1% more damage for 1 point initative left – increase the initative thief has got (both are minor traits) – that’s pretty offensive and I like it – and I liked the might I got from SA before the patch, now it’s all defensive and someone who traits into every other trait lines has got an advantage over me (especially since SA is so weak defensive-wise).

Maugetarr.6823:

Master tier has hidden thief for solo roaming which would have the fall trait and allow you to enter into combat with stealth. Fleet shadow would also be a strong contender on D/D to Allow for better gap closing since you can’t cancel shadowshot like you can with D/P. If you have suggestions for the Master tier, I’d be open to them. Good conversation starters.

I don’t need hidden thief, I’m a D/D thief. It’s a useless trait to me.

Edit: Typos

I disagree with CiS falling away completely, there are more ways to gain stealth than from using CnD as a D/D thief – I’d still like to have that trait. And Shadows embrace is not fine as it is – fear isn’t taken away from you now, so you can be feared out of your SA which you formerly could prevent and I still have to take at least 2 “defensive” trait lines in order to get rid of 70% of the conditions.
SA has been offensive and defensive before the patch, trickery still is and I think every line should be defensive and offensive at the same time so that no one has got a disadvantage for taking that line. And SA is still the best line for condi remove.
Also, your master tier has got no options for me as a solo roamer (the current line doesn’t really have either but I’d like that to be changed).
For the rest: Haven’t really read through all but you guys know that I’m a strong defender of the old SA line

Me too actually, was only able to peek in for a few minutes – wish I’d been able to leave you guys some cookies.

DeceiverX.8361:

Possibly, though I’d still probably take Butternut Squash Soup over it as the higher power gains a bit more consistency against heavies and the likes. I was just posting what I was running at the time, as when I’m not really trying to push out crazy damage figures/max a stab, I usually run cheaper food as to not go broke. The vitality bonus helps reduce the impact of conditions as well, due to the very minimal condition cleaning the build offers. Even 700 HP can sometimes make the difference.

I doubt that your build has any more purpose than one shotting people. Which is ok, but don’t say it’s “a roaming build” ;)

Zero Day.2594:

#TEEFstillOP

:/ Actually haven’t seen a nerf thread for a while now… wtf?

Mhm, I do wonder if mesmers are now getting all the stealth hate or if people just shut up because mesmer showed them that their whining can make things a lot worse.
I should hang around in other forums from time to time.

Karolis.4261:

I dont get why you ppl keep posting same builds over and over again. Gues what ? Wheel is already invented. You all are reinventing same old x/30/30/x/x build over and over again just now with less diversity. Shadowarts and crit strikes with hidden killer while focusing in power, crit damage and extra vitality in expense of precision.

So? What would you rather have? Tons of “Thief isn’t viable anymore” threads? Or a dead forum? And the traits aren’t quite the same as they have been.

The build looks solid – I’d say the best you can make right now for a non one shot D/D thief. Don’t know too much about the runes though as I haven’t tried them myself.

Keep the trickery line as you have it as the only trick you use is withdraw. I use Flanking Strikes, Trickster and Sleight of Hand on most of my thieves² as haste is nice and also counts as a trick but your build sacrifices critical chance for vitality and trill of the crime might help you with that. For some reason I found that 111 seems to be the best way to kill opponents lately which is kind of sad, but oh well.

²But I also use Daggerstorm on all of them and Roll for Initative in zerg fights, so I have a lot of tricks.

Drennon.7190:

OP doesn’t bother me. It’s the fact that they nerfed the evades of S/D and then gave the same thing to another class.

Yeah, kind of like mesmer and stealth – bothers me too.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Just saying though, I have played d/d pure bust builds and more sustaind builds. But I didn’t enjoy it as much as s/d and d/p. I think it’s healthy to play all weapon sets equally rather then just 1.

What server are you on?

Gunnars (told you a while ago)
Of course it’s completely healthy- I play S/P in dungeons, still I wouldn’t talk about how viable it is in wvw/pvp as I only play(ed) D/P and D/D.

And since none of my posts can go without an edit:
Of course I can say what problems I have against S/P when facing it – but how many D/D thieves have you seen since about a year in wvw/pvp? S/P seems to be the latest craze and with that D/D as you’ll have D/D, D/P and S/P – but in the end I guess most still use P5 and D 2.
Just killed a guard(ian) in a camp in wvw with D/D but I think my/the lags were helping and that he didn’t kill the Quartermaster, so I hadn’t had to watch my stealth.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Ofc I kitteng know d/d lol. I just play it religiously like other people do.

Some day I’ll find you!

Fat Disgrace.4275:

I meant that they didn’t need to go balls deep through all of them aoes, risk getting blinded or even hit a block skill just land CnD to remove 2 conditions (pre patch) so 1 condition now. Simply because the didn’t even have the trait. And “spamming” #2 on swoedisn’t that great of an idea too.

Please, just try it: S/X is something entirely differently than D/D. Condi remove on shadowstep, immobilize on shadowstep, different trait lines for different problems – these trait lines also have got condi remove and together with shadow step that might be enough for S/X, for D/D it isn’t.

Edit: I mean honestly: You don’t even know D/D so why are you argueing about how viable it is?

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Still not convinced that d/d is as bad as you make it out to be. I have seen s/x users beat heavy conditions build with out shadows embrace. You could always get a 2nd short bow and equp sigil of cleansing is it? I have heard of a sigil that clease a condition but never really looked into it, now with fire/air nerf ed I think I will re visit the drawing bored and look at the sigils. There is even a recent thread discussing viable d/d builds and they seem to be bouncing back and making it work.

That being said If I decide to go pvp on thief tonight instead of raiding on warrior with my guild (depending on MU) I will play d/d for a lengthly amount of time and see how truly bad it is.

No offense but “D/D can’t be as bad as you say, I’ve seen S/X users beating..”
Really?
That’s a good plan =)
But maybe we get a better matchup tonight.

Sagat.3285:

No just drop the vulnerability for blindness.

Ok, but then I want the 1,5 quota back on it
Maybe the traits should be reworked first – the SA line is a mess in my opinion.

Anyway, someone else said that CnD was easy to land – it isn’t because of bugs, lags, culling or whatever- it misses more often than it hits, I need steal to land it most of the time. So in the end we don’t need a shadowstep on it; we either need a bug fix or a range buff for CnD – or maybe even a shadow step – would be great if some of the devs looked into it.

Roscoe.2348:

From what I’ve noticed I get a spirit shard drop whenever I kill something after my exp bar has filled up so for me nothing has changed except I gotta kill something to get the point.

Just your imagination =) Doesn’t work that way.

DeceiverX.8361:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAoY8Yl0MhKnYjTwzJw/EHwE0uDLPF+0En2oTQAyAA-TlCBABHfCA2Tvwlq+UpaAnpEEr9HlSA8EAySZTeaCY4gAEAAB4mtZb2mBn38m38m38czbezbezbWKAB1ZB-w

Why the vitality food?
Try Seaweed Salad or Plate of Truffle Steaks . Edit: I see at least the latter wouldn’t really be better in your case, still I’m pretty convinced that Seaweed salad is.

Vayne.8563:

It’s over all easier. Your complaint is that it’s harder for you personally. Anet can’t make a game for you personally. Sure maybe they will raise the spirit shard count, but the point is, the whole process of getting a legendary is overall easier anyway. I get that it’s harder for you. When stuff doesn’t work for me, I usually try to figure out if this is something most players have an issue with, or if it’s something more geared to my particular play style. If it’s just me or people like me and I don’t suspect their’s some majority out there feeling it, I tend not to make a big deal about it.

I get that you personally feel it’s an issue for you. But if it’s not an issue for most people, and it doesn’t seem to be, it’s going to be very low on the list of priorities.

It is as I loathe champ trains which are the only real possibility for me now to get spiritshards. Can I please at some point think of me and not about you casuals who think that the silverwastes are the best this game has got?

Bugfix post

/15 char

Vayne.8563:

snip

Please try to get my point, ok?
It’s great if obtaining this or that has becomen easier for casual players but nothing has becomen easier for me the way I play this game. That was my point that was why I suggested that nodes have a tiny chance to drop spiritshards as well. As before this change those who did champ trains got their scrolls of knowledge and their exp and everybody else could do what ever they wanted and got xp. It’s ok if they want to nerf the amount of spirit shards people have but I think this is done very one sided.

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

I love thieves.

That being said, thieves can relate to most good biscuits. One second they’re there, and the next they’re all gone.

Perfect answer :D

Vayne.8563:

The problem is it was originally harder to get world complete, dungeon tokens and the gift of battle as well as tier 6 mats and obsidian shards. So new players have one thing harder and half a dozen things easier.

New players complaining about how difficult it is to get a legendary are not looking at the bigger picture.

I’m doing wvw “24/7”, so map completion never really was a problem for me, except the first time, but that was when I started wvw.
I have been to the silver wastes maybe 3 times, I probably will never again get there.
World Boss trains bore me to death (although I’m doing them from time to time if I need ectos)
Champ trains bore me to death.
For me it’s harder to get spirit shards and just as difficult to get map completion or T6 mats.
Oh and I get my dungeon tokens by doing dungeons.

Kamara.4187:

I agree with the OP.

Most of you managed to horde up larger numbers due to playing the game longer and under a more generous system while newer players are struggling.

Its not about “I want it now” its about not making things more difficult for the new player.

I second that – or for people like me who like to run around and farm nodes. Would be nice if nodes had a 0,0X% chance of dropping a spirit shard. I kind of feel forced to run champ trains.

apharma.3741:

Yeah, you posted that as I was typing my response, which given how promptly after you replied you’d have seen, how mature of you. I have read it and quite frankly it just sounds like a learn to adapt issue. You get to choose more traits than before, surely you’re gaining somewhere that you are giving up by not running CiS and shadow rejuvenation.

That’s without mentioning you get a -25% damage taken while in stealth trait for free which certainly will make up some ground.

As for invulns, most of them haven’t exactly changed in meta builds from pre patch. By that I mean no-one has gained more of them than before. I guess you could argue eles running focus and geomancers defense get much higher uptime on obsidian flesh and mesmers get to use distortion as default now but I wouldn’t say it’s that out of hand.

You had half an hour to edit your message and tell me that you no longer need a reply.
I think I know how to play, how about you roll a D/D thief and then discuss this again?
And also have a look at the traits of mesmers and elementalists if you think nothing has changed with the patch.

apharma.3741:

Still, please do explain to me exactly what made DD especially unviable instead of being broad strokes across all stealth builds?

My turn: read (above)

Have fun.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Yeah, it’s was all about that 1 trait that made s/d or even acrobatics worth taking . Such a shame that they went too far on it.

Sigh. What has really hurt you then as d/d? Because shadows embraces has effected all of us. Is it that you can not blind people on stealth anymore? S/d acro users never had that option anyway. Is it Shadows rejuvenation? Because I can’t understand why it’s become so bad now. I have tried it a few times after this patch but didn’t notice all that much.

Let me explain: SE hurts every thief, yes, but a D/D thief has to wade through all AOE to get his stealth – For that CiS was nice to have too, not for condis but direct damage. Also Shadow Rejuvenation to heal – we can’t have that anymore. Also: I need my target to stealth on them (unless there’s ambient creatures around), if they’re invulnerable I can’t stealth. I can’t really interrupt, at least not with my weaponset, so my playstyle is timing – but with all these nerfs I’m not alive long enough to time anything. That is why the patch sucked expecially for D/D thieves.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

If you can’t move on from d/d because of how “bad and unviable” it is then thats your problem.

People need a break from this class, if all they feel is nothing but negative about the thief.

Yeah that was the point of this thread, that people are quitting D/D or S/D because it isn’t viable anymore – don’t think we haven’t tried.
It was you who said we should adapt (without having a clue about D/D) – that was why I wrote here – so thank you for stating the obvious “play another class”.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Sounds like what you are saying is that you can’t always win there for it doesn’t work. D/p “works” but dosnt always win. Either deal with this change by re doing your build and “bounce back” are reroll a new class. It’s that simple

Try D/D for yourself and then we talk, ok? It’s like a ranger telling me that a “thief = insta win”.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Ofc I use d/p but I also said I use s/d and d/d as well. What I was trying to say is that there is more the 1 weapon set to play and if like – for example d/d, then you will make it work if you want it to.

Dont actually recall using it as a rant, but isn’t that what d/d was about? The old 6/6/x/x/x was about insta killing people. The shadow arts was more a fighter I admit though

Then make it work and share your build – I can also use D mainhand and nothing else and run through wvw/pvp – doesn’t mean it works.

apharma.3741:

Learn to read. I said across all game modes, with that I’m talking WvW and lower rank/unranked PvP.

apharma.3741:

Ok, I guess thank you for your years of service is in order. May you continue to C&D off that plethora of ambients, deer, structures and everything else that makes it viable in a game mode that is hilariously unbalanced.

Though seeing as you brought up WvW specifically I can now add P/D SA condi thief and P/D trapper thief to the list of viable builds.

You brought it up – Calling me stupid because I disagree, telling me that you meant something I also meant and then calling me stupid for talking about what you “meant” – take a break from forums, will you?

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Because I said that it obviously means I don’t play it, right :-/ but yes I do not play it often because I don’t enjoy it as much.

Alright, but why do you include it in a rant how people need to adapt when all thief has got left is D/P which you obviously use?!

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Still people belive that thief is dead? Can’t you guys spend a bit more effort on adapting/reworking your play style?

I am playing d/d s/d and d/p. I still see some friends who run s/p.

Wasn’t it you calling D/D one trick ponies? Now I’m confused.

apharma.3741:

Learn to read. I said across all game modes, with that I’m talking WvW and lower rank/unranked PvP.

Wvw gold veteran here – 99% of all ranks done on my D/D thief.
Sorry, but I know what I’m talking about.

Edit: Oh and I’m never in EotM