Not all knockbacks are launches dude. Launch is a stun. Several mob abilities are simply knockbacks with no CC component.
All knockbacks in game are interrupts, honey. (I hate it when people call me dude, honestly).
Edit: Chain of interrupts = permastun = free kill. If you meant something else then don’t use in game skills which mean something differently than you to describe it.
There were several “mass exoduses” from thief players (in wvw that is). First was maybe December 10th (created mine December 7th), second was April 15th the following year (Ferocity) (I’ve been one of the two remaining thieves on my server) and well, the third was June 23th. Maybe anet wants to have a look at that, or maybe they just put it down to “every thief being a salty kitten who can’t handle changes”.
And it says 5 pulses for 3s stealth each – so it should be 15.
Edit: In wvw with CS/SA and T it’s 15s – also noticed that in PvE my stealth icon starts to blink almost immediately after CnD, so I guess it’s 2s there.
I haven’t bought HoT yet, maybe I never will. So, maybe you’re right when it comes to DD.
And someone already said it a while back which took me quite some time to understand: It isn’t thief, its the other classes. They dish out too much damage, they have too many invulnerabilities, they have too much passive stuff applied to them.
The problem is a bit more complex though, I said it many times before ankitten ot afraid to bore all of you and say it again; I’ve been soldiers before the introduction of ferocity, thieves couldn’t “one shot” me (I was a noob at that time, so I don’t really know if it was CnD+ BS or just BS), if I was running around in my valk gear they could. Still I was able to defend myself successfully with my soldier’s gear in 1vs1s, might have been even better if I hadn’t been a noob. I have been able to run in a zerg. With ferocity I felt as if the only 2 viable power gears were valk and zerker. Now we would have to go uber-zerker to compensate for the power creep of the other classes as they’ve gotten tankier and dish out insane damage, while we’ve gotten glassier but can’t go further than zerker = do more damage.
The introduction of ferocity halted the power creep and I have to say the fights the last 1,5 years were enjoyable. They can’t bring in another “ferocity-patch” as that would be the final nail for thieves.
So maybe they should try to figure out how the crit damage/crit chance and ferocity eras worked and find a balanced based on that as it would be kind of nice to be able to wear soldier’s again and also nice to be a frontline thief again (although I am but I have to get out of the fight all the time).
How about the balancing team actually making balance without listening to the players? By listening to the players they caused threads like this cause no one believes in fairness anymore but in “if we cry the loudest we won’t be nerfed”.
If the forums already know in advance how traits will turn out, it should be clear to those making the game as well, but instead it’s brought into game a few weeks after announcement and then gets a hotfix.
Please read, I observed this fight from a tower in WvW, and yes i don’t know much about thieves, just the examples i see before me, and when i see this “underpowered” class solo 3 players it makes it appear not underpowered at all.
Spend some more time in wvw and fight, then you’ll find that this case was an exception. Maybe because 2 of the 3 were afk or tried to rezz each other while exposing their backs to the dagger.
There are exceptional players and there are stupid players or players who make mistakes – a twilight doesn’t make a person a good player.
2 days ago, none of them had a upscale arrow, one of them had a twilight. Warrior, enge, and a ranger. Please don’t say they are bad roamers, because they are not.
Yeah a forum full of thieves don’t know better about the class than you – and the guy with the twilight.
@ OP: Maybe you’re having lags. I have some weird lags as well, sometimes against certain classes. It’s not my internet mostly (observing everything with my pingplotter, yes, I’m German). So, check your internet connection and if that is alright, then hope that the next patch will fix stuff for you.
Stealth is the best aggro management tool in the game. An invisible ally has no further attacks launched at them. Considering this, shadow refuge can be considered a 10 second immunity to targeted attacks, affecting up to 5 people. Also in shadow arts anyone in stealth gets a 25% damage reduction.
Unless the NPCs still follow you while you’re stealthed – common in wvw. Also it doesn’t protect the other members or your party if they aren’t thieves who are traited in SA (you made it sound like it would protect everybody)
My glass cannon thief carries pugs. And not by soloing content. The defenses it provides are so strong it can keep a group of random, uncoordinated players alive through thick and thin.
If people know shadow refuge, that is. If they’re uncoordinated to start with… good luck with that.
But in general you’re right, if I will buy HoT and participate in raids I likely will still be doing so as a zerker thief (in the end I survive in wvw zergs already, don’t think that it can get worse) but all of that doesn’t mean that anet shouldn’t rework thief as they’ve proven to not care about our class by introducting reveal stuff and not giving us anything in exchange, so I don’t really count on them thinking about thief when designing new content.
If Anet did decided to nerf sb5 and did not compensate there would be riots. I feel like they are sacred of touching this class because they don’t fully understand it.
I’d like a compensation for the revealed skills. And I don’t think that even riots would be heard
And I agree with the OP actually – if SB were nerfed no thieves would be in pvp and it might become obvious that something with the class is fundamentely wrong. But to be honest that’s the case for a lot of the classes and I’d like the balance team to sit down, look at some pvp matches, look at all numbers and traits of all classes and balance the kitten out of everything.
That being said, I’m fine with thief requiring more skill. I just can’t live with being a lootbag.
I think this is cos in open world pve (non boss encouters), spamming downed 111 is what gets people up, you won’t outheal if mobs are hitting you, unless you are a ranger. Plus many have no idea what the other skills do, reading tool tips is too much (did fract lvl 50 the other day with mes using downed 2 right when anyone started rezzing, fun times).
Then they come pvp/wvw and give thieves a heartattack.
They give me a heartattack no matter what game mode and they often kill me.
Maybe being a thief turns one into a better player overall.No offense, OP, but the downed skills as a thief are really important, maybe not so much for other classes.
Putting and leaving CiS in grandmaster wasn’t balance it just turned D/D thieves into lootbags. And that should’ve been obvious by seeing it on paper – we knew it when we saw it.
Cos 100% of fights, the stomping guy is at 1% HP and has all skills on cd so my knifeee11111 will get him :P
Yeah, that’s why people at teq do that as well “I’ll get this 2 mio k HP guy before I die!!” Sometimes it makes sense to spam 1 in downed state but in most cases it’s a lot easier to use #4 – you’ll get up twice as fast.
With the new trait system, could someone please explain why some people keep coming arguing on major minor and master traits ?
Wtf is difference now ?
Before it was availibility. Now it is the same. So please stop asking to get better master than minor. Only what matters is to have a good trait spread accross the 3 levels.
This has to be a joke thread, then again I heard people complaining IN-GAME that the thief buff was uncalled for cause their already “too OP” with their D/P weapon set (I kid you not thats what they said about our only decent pvp set)
One of the map chats today – tried to avoid most others by staying logged out.
Also, pistols are a small part of what this class needs.
PLEASE do not focus 100% of your attention on pistols.
It will be 3-6 months until the next patch anyway and with that we might get one minor buff which will lead to outrage (like I experienced in wvw today all the time: “What thief was buffed? I’m not leaving this tower”). Know what, guys? Upgrade your stuff yourselves, learn to use siege and flip your camps – I don’t think I will be around anymore.
I do need vulnerability on CnD as backstabs are pretty weak compared to what other classes dish out anyway. Without it you have 5% less damage on backstab.
Nah, I won’t delete my thief, it was the character of all games I loved the most.
I’d like to have an option to delete my account though-or at least permanently disable it so I don’t have to read my mail 24/7 to see if it has been hacked.
Forum posters are probably less than 0.1% of the Thief community. Even if everyone who posts here deleted their Thieves we’d barely make a dent in how many people actually play the prof.
You’re right.
PvE: Thief still ok – good
Wvw: A few diehard or troll thieves or noob thieves who will soon roll another class
Pvp: Decapper and +1 thieves
Pvp is the only mode anet monitors as far as I know. As long as thieves are the most “mobile” class it will seem as if no thief has quit.
And; people leave games everyday, so it might not seem unusual that a few hundreds left.
And in the end who cares? Just used alt f4 on wvw because people were crying for a thief nerf.
It does for me! It’ll still be near-useless without Ricochet, but it’s a step in the right direction.
Good for you =)
They destroyed my D/D thief in June, so a pistol buff isn’t helping me – and it took them 3 months for a balance patch, so I don’t think I will be holding my breath for much longer.
Hmm, I think I can add those in somewhere… what about this?
Oh No, You Didn’t!:
When Revealed, gain Retaliation and Fury for the duration of Revealed.
I Can Run, But I Can’t Hide:
While not in Stealth, movement speed is increased by 25% and Stealth Attacks will replace auto-attacks. When Revealed, gain Superspeed and Quickness for the duration of Revealed.
Overwhelming Presence:
While not in Stealth, gain Vigor and Cripple nearby foes for 1 second. Pulses every second.
Sounds good to me – and I have to admit that “oh no, you didn’t” is my favourite trait!
But I don’t need a blast finisher against PvE bosses. Mostly. So, the idea is kind of nice, but then I would have no real ranged weapon for PvE.
I stopped caring about PvE a looong time ago =) HoT doesn’t change that.
Still I want to kitten around with my friends in fractals.
How about making one of the P/P skills a blast finisher? I mean, anet still hasn’t said what we will get in exchange for all the revealed stuff, but significant lower initative cost for either #2 or 4 and it being a blast finisher would help a lot, I think.
Hm, what if Unload switched into a roll over skill called reload or something which releases a small aoe blind blast finisher for 1 initiative? It would offer a nice defense at a minimal cost and be a good combo with Black Powder.
Aren’t the roll over skills always when one clicks the skill twice? And I want to be able to spam unload on teq and some fractal bosses. And probably everybody wants to spam uload more than once from time to time.
So, take a skill that’s rarely used – but if you use smoke field and unload to blind your enemy you’ll likely have an initative problem to press a third skill as unload lasts pretty long and the smoke field isn’t up forever.
Edit: Just tested it again: a smoke field lasts long enough to use unload once and an additional skill. With trickery you also have more than enough initative – at least once.
What if Hidden Assassin moves to another trait line? Although that might be just as bad.
I liked the old system because they weren’t all bunched up in one line. you could get what you need from going a little into one line and a bit in another. Now if you move one thing all hell brakes loose.
I liked it too, but please try to get my point =)
As it is now: SA needs either more offense or more defense as someone traited into SA has got a hard time against someone who’s traited in DS, CS and T.
I see the problem. What if everything in Shadow Arts stayed the same as is in game, and Hidden Assassin was merged with Meld with shadows, the master minor trait. The names Meld with Shadows and Hidden Assassin both fit for a merged trait. I want it to work with all weapon sets if possible, but not make this line too strong.
I don’t object it being a Major trait, but I haven’t done the maths yet. So, someone with the former Hidden Assassin trait shouldn’t be as strong as someone who specced into DS and CS (because of Shadow Rejuvenation), but I’d like to take Mug into account and there’s also the possibility that someone uses DS, SA and T – which might be really powerful. But alas, before we could always use Mug with our 2 “spare” points – I never did though.
Too lazy to do the maths, just saying =)
And well, as long as anet doesn’t say if and what thief gets in exchange for the reveal stuff other classes have/are getting, it’s hard to say what effect the reintroduction of this trait might have.
Edit; What if Hidden Assassin moves to another trait line? Although that might be just as bad.
Simply add Hidden Assassin as a GM trait.Traits would have to be shifted around. Merge Shadow Protector master trait with Merciful Ambush minor trait. Move Shadow Rejuvenation to Master trait, and add Hidden Assassin in as GM trait.
That would hurt D/D thieves again as they “need” CiS.
I want my might back though, yet have no real idea how to get it back into SA, or probably another line and how powerful other thief builds might become because of it. that might have been the inital reason they took it out, but I feel that someone traiting into SA is a lot weaker than a full glass thief and most other classes.
Edit: But then again, I’m using SE, Shadow Protector and CiS – so my build is rather weak to start with.
Noob question, what’s with 5111111, 511122?
Dagger/Dagger rotation? You need to press “1” twice to use double strike?, or am i just reading into it too deeply?
51 is the D/D “combo”, yes, also 111 after that and 222 to finish off. The 111 is because you’re revealed during that time mostly and it does “decent” damage – reality looks different though, would be more like 5 kitten, 5 kitten, Shadow refuge
Blast finisher? That would mean that the bullet would need to explode… that goes against the purity of pistols… and we can’t go against that…
Nah, cluster bomb makes poof at max and my warrior’s warhorn doesn’t explode either.
I spent 2 hours swifting everything I could find the other day – people weren’t as excited as me though…
How about making one of the P/P skills a blast finisher? I mean, anet still hasn’t said what we will get in exchange for all the revealed stuff, but significant lower initative cost for either #2 or 4 and it being a blast finisher would help a lot, I think.
Never mind the fact that Necromancer negativity was on a whole other level Thieves couldn’t hope to match, and yet, they got most of what they wanted. Curious…
Yeah, maybe we should stop being constructive and making jokes..
But then again that’s what I like about this forum..
So a thief I would enjoy more or a forum I’d enjoy less.. tough descision.
Here’s the thing though. If you look at something like protection that reduces all incoming damage by 33%, you’re basically ignoring every 3rd hit. This would mean that you would have to dodge every 3rd hit to be as effective as protection. The other 2 low health tier classes have anple access to protection or rather continuous heals and blocks. Even with our high dodge rate with the old FG, that just put out evasive capabilities on par with protection. They should have stripped out the damage buffs from the line but left the defensive traits alone, requiring real choice when making builds.
So overall, I don’t agree that they can’t balance around not getting hit. Yes, it’s a little frustrating to fight against, but when it only takes 2-3 solid hits to down a thief, it’s fine.
I’m not really sure if I’m right on this buut the 2 classes which don’t have invulnerability are necro (33% less) and thief (none – or 25% when in stealth when traited in SA).
The damage output overall got higher with the June patch, the health pool didn’t – I think mine is lower as it has been, no idea about other classes. Those who have 2 dodges and 1 or more invulnerabilities/blocks seem to survive better in this “patch”.
So, like a few already said: The overall damage should be reduced, especially for tanky classes or those who have got other ways to mitigate damage as it’s harder to hit them = to survive against them.
I don’t really oppose 3 dodges, thus a smart way to fight, just saying that even one hit right now hurts a lot.
Edit: So basically what I think is that currently all balance is off. You can buff thief all you want, but then we become another mindless class like the rest of them who can faceroll their keybord to success as they can go as glassy as they like, they still won’t get hit because of all their invulnerabilities.
Edit²: Thief needs buffs nonetheless but most other classes need nerfs.
I am under the impression that the original team knew what they were doing and that all of it got lost on the way – I think thief how it has been (when I started, can’t talk about anything prior, so 1,5-2 years ago) had mostly smart stuff but the june patch destroyed what was left of it. And it will be further destroyed with all the reveal stuff cause someone at anet got backstabbed once.
And yeah, I agree with amante, I’m still running valk zerker on my main and played against a warrior the other day – I didn’t make one single mistake, dodged all 2-5 attacks, evaded with death blossom, still I had no chance cause the cleave alone killed me.
That was a better warrior, btw, I can kill other warriors with 3 hits. And I might have had a chance if I had gone full glass, cause SA is just too weak. But you never know who’s around the corner in wvw.
Thieves have a permanent place in PvP tournaments, and always have. Rangers have no place in PvP tournaments, and never did. The same holds true in dungeons: dungeon groups don’t kick people just for playing thief, but they do kick people just for playing ranger. How many times do I need to repeat this?
So? That’s because of the classes’ mechanics, you can buff all you want, still doesn’t change the mechanics how many times do I need to repeat this?
