Guild Wars 2

WvW >>>>>> sPvP

Epic Beast.5189:

Jinks.2057:

Adaneshade.2409:

Jinks.2057:

You haven’t answered the question….

Also what do call spamming stealth? CnD every 3 seconds after your sneak attack or CnD chaining?

Im sorry but you’re still a lil unclear with your posts

I’m referring to use of stealth as your ONLY defensive technique. Obvioulsy chaining C&D would be the absolute worst offender of that. But making a build that requires you to re-enter stealth every 3 seconds on the dot isn’t much better. Why not make a build that has some other defensive measures? Shadowstepping, access to tons of evasion abilities. People who only use stealth are only playing half the class. It shows very linear thinking and a lack of really understanding the class.

As I said before, stealth is a great tool. I use it, it’s the people who don’t even use anything else that fall short of the mark for truly high end PvP.

Ok so basically you consider evade builds to take more skill than stealth builds…..or a combination of the two to fully play the class at a certain level.

It also seems you have certain builds in mind for “skilled” thief play. For some reason you won’t tell me what they are, nor link them….I don’t understand why you would do this so I’ma throw a few things out there:

1. S/X takes LESS skill than D/D to succeed at a high level
2. Running GC requires MORE skill than running non GC
3. D/P is the true stealth problem not X/D
4. sPvP takes LESS skill than solo roaming WvW

These may be the main points we will disagree about, and since you were kinda beating around the bush i just threw em out. We can debate these or you can come up with what you truly think is a “skilled” build, but I believe I pegged that one down.

You believe a non GC build utilizing shadow steps more so than stealth to achieve victory is the best way to go. The weapon sets you feel take the most skill are S/D or S/P….and I hope to the good lord you don’t think D/P requires special amounts of skill either.

I honestly don’t agree with you.

4. sPvP takes LESS skill than solo roaming WvW….. Not sure if ure serious… Can u explain this point?

In sPvP

Is there less build diversity
Is there a damage cap
Is the game set ib a very controlled environment
Is there a chance to face 10-1 odds

Im sorry but sPvP takes less skill.

No.

It should be full duration of what the target player enjoys.

Who was the SoS ranger in BP Bl this am?

I will say the past 2 weeks I’ve had no problem wiping 2-3x our numbers in BP when running in a group of 10.

That being said you aren’t going to win 100% of your fights, and I personally judge K/D ratio in terms of success. This is due to the natural zerg 1st mentality that Anet has cultivated in this game.

So I say let us keep the fights going…..and some of y’all need to chill on the “OMGSOLOTHIEFZERGZERGZERGZERGEM!!”

Score update please.

I fought walabone a few times.

Not a bad dude. Tho we did meet randomly and he iniitially tried to zerg me down

No hard feelings tho

Adaneshade.2409:

Creating a build takes skill, creating a build with only one aspect of our dynamic class shows a lack of it. What you’ve listed are weapon set’s, while part of a build, they are not builds. A build includes gear, traits, utilities, runes, sigils, everything about the character. I don’t care what weapon set someone uses so long as they’ve come up with an all inclusive build with it.

I’ve only called out P/D thieves because of the fact that I’ve never seen anyone use a build with it that utilized all of our abilities, only stealth and sneak attack. Because it’s core gameplay only involves the use of 2 abilities (stealth and sneak attack) it’s easy to use, there’s no thought process to it.
This doesn’t mean that one doesn’t exist, I’ve just never seen or heard of it. If you can find anyone using a well rounded P/D build, by all means show it to me.

As for GC builds, the player has left a major hole in the build, that of sustainability. If they don’t manage to kill their opponent on the opening assault, they are forced to run away. Nothing skillfull about that.

Creating a build does not take skill….this isn’t DAoC templating.

Skill in GW2 is solely situation awareness and reflexes. In laymans terms it means goin glass requires more skill than not going glass. You literally have no room for error.

I also watch glass thieves have “sustainability” because they have more skill than crutch weilding P/V/T or Valk thieves.

Besides you never did answer my question.

Adaneshade.2409:

Jinks.2057:

You haven’t answered the question….

Also what do call spamming stealth? CnD every 3 seconds after your sneak attack or CnD chaining?

Im sorry but you’re still a lil unclear with your posts

I’m referring to use of stealth as your ONLY defensive technique. Obvioulsy chaining C&D would be the absolute worst offender of that. But making a build that requires you to re-enter stealth every 3 seconds on the dot isn’t much better. Why not make a build that has some other defensive measures? Shadowstepping, access to tons of evasion abilities. People who only use stealth are only playing half the class. It shows very linear thinking and a lack of really understanding the class.

As I said before, stealth is a great tool. I use it, it’s the people who don’t even use anything else that fall short of the mark for truly high end PvP.

Ok so basically you consider evade builds to take more skill than stealth builds…..or a combination of the two to fully play the class at a certain level.

It also seems you have certain builds in mind for “skilled” thief play. For some reason you won’t tell me what they are, nor link them….I don’t understand why you would do this so I’ma throw a few things out there:

1. S/X takes LESS skill than D/D to succeed at a high level
2. Running GC requires MORE skill than running non GC
3. D/P is the true stealth problem not X/D
4. sPvP takes LESS skill than solo roaming WvW

These may be the main points we will disagree about, and since you were kinda beating around the bush i just threw em out. We can debate these or you can come up with what you truly think is a “skilled” build, but I believe I pegged that one down.

You believe a non GC build utilizing shadow steps more so than stealth to achieve victory is the best way to go. The weapon sets you feel take the most skill are S/D or S/P….and I hope to the good lord you don’t think D/P requires special amounts of skill either.

I honestly don’t agree with you.

You haven’t answered the question….

Also what do call spamming stealth? CnD every 3 seconds after your sneak attack or CnD chaining?

Im sorry but you’re still a lil unclear with your posts

Adaneshade.2409:

No, the key word is “solely” as in builds that only work with use of stealth as a crutch(and up til this point, culling). There are plenty of builds that primarily use attacks other than C&D and whatever opener you have with the set. The reason I mention P/D specifically is I’m unaware of any build with that weapon set that doesn’t use stealth as a crutch.

A properly designed build can survive in combat without the use of stealth for much greater periods of time. That’s not to say they never use stealth at all, it is a useful tool and does have it’s place. Certain builds, however, totally revolve around the use of stealth and utterly fail to work without it’s use.

So basically you are saying only non glass builds are pr0 builds….while all glass builds are noob builds.

mmmkay then answer me this:

What takes more skill in a 1v4 scenario….GC thief killing 4 people or your pr0 build thief killing 4 people?

Adaneshade.2409:

Jinks.2057:

Adaneshade.2409:

Thieves are in a great place atm, especially compared to the issues some other classes still have. There is no “hate” at all for our class, at least from the Devs. The stealth nerfs will be GOOD for our profession as a whole as it will drive out some of the bads and spread that population among the other classes a bit. I’m tired of all thieves being lumped into the same group of “ezmode noobs”, we now get a patch that will “separate the men form the boys”. It’s high time for the class to be respectable.

Can you define what an ezmode noob is?

All I ever read from you is “take your training wheels off, get a real build, noob thieves”

So please tell me what do you constitute as a noob build vs man build.

Thanks.

As for the rest of the topic…I feel culling fix and reevaluate is the correct way.

Sure, noob builds are those that require very little effort for decent payout vs bad players, but fail to be effective vs the more experienced players, a good example of this is P/D. Crazy easy to use, but easily countered by experienced players. Any build that relies totally on stealth openers would fall into this category.

Ok so let me get this straight. A build that heavily relies on stealth openers is noob in your terms.

So the ONLY weapon set that is not noob according to you is S/P + SB????

Sorry if I sound a lil bit harsh, but I’m generally confused to what you trying to say.

Red Falcon.8257:

Good Thieves are completely unaffected by Mug/Stealth nerf.
Ok maybe I will feel less guilty when I kill people as it won’t be as faceroll easymode as it is now perhaps.

Define what you say is a good thief please.

I see a lot of people say this but never actually say what a good thief is

Adaneshade.2409:

Thieves are in a great place atm, especially compared to the issues some other classes still have. There is no “hate” at all for our class, at least from the Devs. The stealth nerfs will be GOOD for our profession as a whole as it will drive out some of the bads and spread that population among the other classes a bit. I’m tired of all thieves being lumped into the same group of “ezmode noobs”, we now get a patch that will “separate the men form the boys”. It’s high time for the class to be respectable.

Can you define what an ezmode noob is?

All I ever read from you is “take your training wheels off, get a real build, noob thieves”

So please tell me what do you constitute as a noob build vs man build.

Thanks.

As for the rest of the topic…I feel culling fix and reevaluate is the correct way.

Fix culling revisit stealth nerf when you increase thief mobility.

That’s what I recommend

Score update where.

Someone needs to hook me up with a full set of clerics gear

Ya I just hate fighting a group of perma CC trains

Always interrupting my stomps….

Bags Bags Bags

All I see is Bags

Wow.

You fellas do realize this isnt DOTA or LoL. This is a different game with diffetent rules. Not everything will be discovered….look at Eles. They wrre considered the worst class…now look at em.

Balance isnt instantaneous but takes time. Quite frankly im sure those horrible classes are just fine but waiting for someone to discover a new build.

Just tired of reading whines in this forum.

ps. Remember the best parts of this game are WvW and PvE. Arena PvP is not

Since stealth will give reveal debuff even if you don’t attack this nonsense needs to go.

Hopefully we’ll see some good changes to thieves since thieves are pretty weak for tpvp

Furiousbeard.7602:

Small skilled groups are highly underrated in wvw. They really can decide the look of a map by winning small decisive fights while the zerg is busy with another zerg.

Dueling is a very good skill to have since your understanding of each class has to be superior in order to win.

Ya well zerg busting is fav past time of mine. After you wipe em a few times their zerball is alwsys a lil smaller.

The one who is likely to kill me the fastest

Sorry zergers are less skilled pvpers.

I solo roam A LOT, but I do take breaks from that to roam in a group.

Now my roaming group tends to take out 4-5x our numbers…guess what they all are FCers.

I dont FC tho….go figure

Id have to say my home of ebay is the best. We had a period of starting to make a serious push for higher tiers but thank god that is over.

Best server I’ve fought atm is now DR. I would still say Mag but they’ve changed since getting tons of xfers.

So im back and just wanna say I’ve had some good fights.

Just seems DR/BP in general hate thieves…..even in light of that and all the drama ive had fun.

Anet needs to realize WvW >>>> sPvP+tPvP

With the proper attention WvW and good PvE will carry this game for 10 years

Toughness does mitigate damage….bunker just isnt about how much tough you stack but what skills/traits you got along with it

There were a few DR players trying to ruin one of ECHO’s FCs.

After a bunch of us flew in and dropped them the DR FCers kept ressing them for me to repeatedly kill….they didn’t show back up needless to say

Kiliaan.1934:

BP is kicking kitten with the score, Period it isn’t an opinion it is a fact. It is an upset no one expected and Ebay is scrambling for an excuse as to how the kitten this could have happened. For my fellow EBay players that are trying to protect us with those excuses think about how lame we will sound if BP takes this match and continues up a tier in time, give credit where it is due. BP thus far has proven to have a much stronger force during our off hours period, will it continue? Lets find out.

If BP fills the queue when no one else is on, what are they supposed to do? They will do what any of us would do, take everything in sight. PvD you can’t blame them for that when there was no one on to defend those doors.

With all that said, I know ebay has thus far taken it easy this week and we have been running more casual than usual, it is our fault for underestimating BP.

In open field and tactics I have always been impressed with how ebay as a sever has been able to do more with less. It’s your turn to not underestimate us. GL out there.

Normally i would say great post…w2g, but then ya see BP players admit to waking up to PvDoor.

Personally I could care less what the score is. Its been my motto since day 1, and i’d be happy in tier8 if the fighting was what it was like in the beginning of this match up. I do find the chest thumping hilarious since the ones doing get smoked against 1/4 their numbers.

ps. I stopped attacking the BURN guild tag unless they have fair numbers to fight me. I figure me vs 5 is appropriate in terms of fairness.

g’day

Dradiin.8935:

Pretty sad all the excuses bandied about by Ebay and there terrible performance this 24 hours. Its Portal Bombing, Over Zerging, PvD, Ebay being nice and takign it easy, Ebay wanting to try the lesser tiers, Ebay (who were known for 24/7 WvW) sleeping, and anything else they can use to try and besmirch the server thats winning.

If you want just flat out fights and no siege… go do SPvP, you just look sad and ridiculous telling those of us who play at siege warfare in a game that has this mechanic designed for it.

Go complain to Anet for not shutting the WvW server down when you need sleepy time. The forces in BP last night are and were the same guys who are there at night every night. there were very few “New” players or names i did not recognize.

Fact of the matter is BP went into this match up hoping for a 2nd place finish (might still happen) but we have seen that Ebay is a bunch of whiners, the best that they can do is PvF (Player vs. Forum). So maybe when we are consuming all of your borderlands you should stop posting snarky comments and concentrate and holding your keep better.

Devona’s Rest i have tons of respect for your server, yes we took alot of your stuff last night but you held your own in alot of areas. i Hope DR is not subjected to another Ebay match up, no one deserves being whined to death by the currently loser server.

Thanks to all who played the past 4 days, its been amazingly fun. Kalkz, EZ, Justice, and all the rest, you guys make this game fun for me and literally hundreds of other BP WvW players, thank you.

Wow.

Dunno wtf to say about this gem we got here….GF?

Honestly they need to increase the stealth times to 4-5 seconds. Once culling is fixed you’ll see a lot of dead thieves just laying around.

Lots of haterade up in this thread though w/ the same people complaining

Is someone really talking kitten about PvD’n and taking a huge PPT???

Wow great job BP……great job……

Demonik.9571:

After working the graveyard shift in WvW this weekend all I have to say is….. Thank you Ebay & BP! This has been the most fun I have had in WvW in a very long time. I hope the rest of the match goes as well.

Ebay, you have some great roaming groups of thieves! Keeps me on my toes when I solo roam

Real thieves solo

Did some eternal for once today.

Good times and found out OINK houses prolly the worst DAoC pally of all time :P

O mai

Good luck with your endeavor

Its not the damage its the survivability thats a kitten

Either way you need to post your build so we can help you

I think thieves are almost there in terms of balance

They need to give them a few more buffs to achieve this tho

P/P needs a reliable way to stealth without utility usage

Welp Ebay BL was hoping as usual.

Didn’t get much solo roaming in due to it being the reset night, but that’ll come later.

Gratz on the PvDoor.

Most people could care less honestly.

Heinel.6548:

Jinks.2057:

So everyone is just complaining about all thieves then.

Its either too much damage or too tanky or stealth abuses too much or resets fight at will etc etc etc

Gotta hate those 30 30 30 30 30 thieves running around

Not all. Thieves who don’t abuse stealth is not in the complaint.

That’s not true. We could go thru all the pages and pick out just as many if not more complaints about glass thieves damage.

Every aspect of the thief class has been complained about in this thread.

This thread needs to be locked.

So everyone is just complaining about all thieves then.

Its either too much damage or too tanky or stealth abuses too much or resets fight at will etc etc etc

Gotta hate those 30 30 30 30 30 thieves running around

Dralor.3701:

Jinks.2057:

Dralor.3701:

Not sure what part of D/D there is to stun break since its just raw damage, also fail to see how it is possibly the worst weapon set when it has the highest burst. Unless that dude was just kidding?

Because D/D has ZERO utility. Let’s go through the skills 1 by 1 and I’ll show you:

#1. Auto chain is crap compared to Sword, and terms of condition spec is fails as well. Only thing good about it is Backstab which in most cases isn’t the best stealth attack.

#2. Heartseeker is great to close gaps and as a finisher. Great leap finisher as well. The problems arise in that HS is best utilized in a D/P build. In D/D its VERY situational if you want to live for any amount of time.

#3. Waste of initiative.

#4. Waste of initiative in 90% of cases

#5. CnD nuff said.

1-3 is available to D/P while maintaining a significantly better stealth upkeep w/ Pistol OH. D/P>>>>D/D period.

Sword/Anything #1, #2, and #3 skills are far superior to D/D. The only thing dagger has is BS damage of which is prolly the most EASILY countered ability in this game.

I’d get into Pistol MH but that’s getting into condition specs (which you are focusing on BS damage specs)

The most OP’d set up on a thief right now is D/P + S/D. This puts even P/D thieves down w/out much hassle….well if the person is remotely skilled that is.

<edit>
Also its quite obvious you do not play a thief. Any thief worth his salt will tell you the exact same things about the weapon sets. If all you wanna do is zergball….well it really doesn’t matter which class you pick let alone weapon set.

I’ve played thief tons. Not going to argue dagger has poor utility, all that matters to me is the weapon set’s burst damage. Living is no issue with escapes granted via shortbow, shadowstep and shadow refuge.

The problem you are facing is 2 thieves with roughly the same skill one uses d/d and the other uses something else….you fail to realize the non d/d thief will out perform the d/d thief.

The damage is so easily mitigated now its pathetic. 9/10 times the swrd daze will suit you better.

ps drop SB and pick up an alternate weaponset. You’ll understand SB is a crutch

Im wondering how much each piece will be.

Currently its easier to get ascended gear in fotm than pvt gear.

Dralor.3701:

Not sure what part of D/D there is to stun break since its just raw damage, also fail to see how it is possibly the worst weapon set when it has the highest burst. Unless that dude was just kidding?

Because D/D has ZERO utility. Let’s go through the skills 1 by 1 and I’ll show you:

#1. Auto chain is crap compared to Sword, and terms of condition spec is fails as well. Only thing good about it is Backstab which in most cases isn’t the best stealth attack.

#2. Heartseeker is great to close gaps and as a finisher. Great leap finisher as well. The problems arise in that HS is best utilized in a D/P build. In D/D its VERY situational if you want to live for any amount of time.

#3. Waste of initiative.

#4. Waste of initiative in 90% of cases

#5. CnD nuff said.

1-3 is available to D/P while maintaining a significantly better stealth upkeep w/ Pistol OH. D/P>>>>D/D period.

Sword/Anything #1, #2, and #3 skills are far superior to D/D. The only thing dagger has is BS damage of which is prolly the most EASILY countered ability in this game.

I’d get into Pistol MH but that’s getting into condition specs (which you are focusing on BS damage specs)

The most OP’d set up on a thief right now is D/P + S/D. This puts even P/D thieves down w/out much hassle….well if the person is remotely skilled that is.

Also its quite obvious you do not play a thief. Any thief worth his salt will tell you the exact same things about the weapon sets. If all you wanna do is zergball….well it really doesn’t matter which class you pick let alone weapon set.

Dual.8953:

Dralor.3701:

Dual.8953:

Dralor.3701:

Dual.8953:

Dralor.3701:

Learn to fight invisible players who can reset at will is not specific advice, there is in fact no advice you can give. The only two tactics that work are stalling while you run to safety, being a full bunker spec who they can never kill or running with a mob.

See that there is the attitude. We’ve tried explaining coming tactics, weaknesses, tendancies. Other players try to ignore it or talk it down. They don’t want to improve, they want free kills.

I’m really confused. As someone who plays a thief myself, everyone else does feel like free kills (when I’m on my thief!). Its really boring when the other player can’t fight back, there is almost zero interaction.

You’re D/D right?

Yup.

No set performs on the level of D/D. Probably D/P and P/D are second. It’s no secret P/D is only good because of stealth. I use S/D. A burstless set that can daze with its stealth attack. It like P/D, uses its stealth skill often to be effective, and it’s stongest damage dealer it it’s auto-attack (same auto-attack kitten P).

I tried BS D/D the other day (training my guild mates to handle Thieves). D/D’s insane compared to other sets.

This is simply false.

D/D is the weakest weapon set the thief has.

This thread needs to be locked now since everyone is getting obnoxious about this

Lebannen.8325:

First of all, Spvp has nothing to do with WvW. This game revolves around WvW, if that disappears this game folds.

From a WvW perspective as having a thief and playing against them. They need a nerf, I quit playing mine after I can take on 2 and 3 people killing at least one then run away. The class is broken, it needs to be fixed. I deleted it after spending about 35g to level and gear one up. I couldnt stand to have a class that is that out of balance.

Only killing 1 vs 2-3? Then get away?

Any class can do that.

I have contributed nothing besides making groups of yaks pull thier hair out

Whole lotta bad DAoC information here.

Either way thieves are fine, and can be melted by any other class at any time.

Welp dunno who those Yaks were this AM in their BL, but I must say good fights.