Guild Wars 2

morrolan.9608:

Jinks.2057:

jimdove.5704:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-11-camelot-unchained-demo-shows-500-characters-fighting-at-90-fps-on-a-2011-macbook-pro

Mark Jacobs is the head…he killed DAoC and this is only a kittened up money grab.

TES online with Matt Frior has more upside IMHO but even those fail when compared to Lord British’s new plan.

Interesting that you call Camelot Unchained a money grab but not Shroud of the Avatar which IMHO is far more of a money grab from someone who could easily afford to fund development himself. And AFAIK Shroud of the Avatar won’t have RvR type PvP anyway.

No it should be purely open thus >>>>> WvW

After killing a ranger it is mandatory to plant the tree and kneel at their head in respect of thier corpse

Zaqq.8724:

I don’t know which has more players because I simply don’t play PvP, but, I feel like most people think WvW has more players because there are zergs…

Dunno know what to say to this one besides why are you on the pvp forums?

jimdove.5704:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-11-camelot-unchained-demo-shows-500-characters-fighting-at-90-fps-on-a-2011-macbook-pro

Mark Jacobs is the head…he killed DAoC and this is only a kittened up money grab.

TES online with Matt Frior has more upside IMHO but even those fail when compared to Lord British’s new plan.

Ben K.6238:

Jinks.2057:

Open world PvP will always be better than arena PvP.

GW1 pvp was fun but not my cup of tea.

GW2 arena PvP could have been good, but it’s simply using the wrong game mode. GW2 combat in GW1-style team arenas / GvGs would have been much more entertaining.

So I stick to WvW, which isn’t the way I’d prefer it either, but it’s a lot closer than capture points.

Yes you are correct in that sPvP game type is killing sPvP.

Stormleaf.1769:

Jinks.2057:

Florgknight.1589:

So how do you plan to prove more people play WvW?

Enter the mists.

Goto server browser and add up all numbers.

Next go compare those numbers to JQs WvW population.

Thank you

That doesn’t actually prove anything. Quite a few people play tournaments, and you can’t track the populations of those in-game. Nice try, though.

O im sorry I forgot that there’s never a wait time to find a tPvP match…..or never a match where one side has less numbers.

Wait a sec……

Im right and everyone knows it. The Devs just are being stubborn about acknowledging ir……

Valkyriez.6578:

OP is more then likely right, but that’s cause the care bear population who like stat and numbers advantages over skillful play on an even field have always outnumbered those that don’t.

Ah but the OP also realizes that taking out 5x or more your number is only possible in the real PvP zone

Score update?

Open world PvP will always be better than arena PvP.

GW1 pvp was fun but not my cup of tea.

Confusion needs a nerf.

Infact mesmers in general needs to make sweet love to the nerf bat

Florgknight.1589:

So how do you plan to prove more people play WvW?

Enter the mists.

Goto server browser and add up all numbers.

Next go compare those numbers to JQs WvW population.

Thank you

Its not ebay

IMHO go to maguuma

WvW is GW2s PvP.

More people play it than sPvP/tPvP…..anet give it up please and listen to the majority of your players.

Its time to put the arenas on the back burner and focus all pvp dev time solely on WvW. Keep the PvE dev time since Pve numbers trump all.

I want better char progression in WvW….while I appreciate the last update let us be honest. Its a lil kitten.

Thank you for you’re time.

ps. I know some sPvP people will come here with some hate….if I wanted to play conquest id play battlefield. I get way more maps, can use all classes, and fly kittening helos.

You can solo roam with any class.

Just some really cant get away from a zerg

CnD was already nerfed.

Mug is on a 45 sec CD.

Thieves do not need further nerfs.

I hate D/P and quite frankly a nerf to it should have happened instead of the 4 sec reveal.

That being said……I now run it /cry

Why?

Because its sooooooo easy that’s why. Running OH Dagger is immensely more difficult that running D/P.

Sorry but Mug needs to stay as is.

Its on a 45 second cool down, and quite frankly if they nerf it steal needs to have a 15 sec CD for compensation. Out of all the classes thieves got shafted the worst in the F key abilities since they have to spend traits to make their only ability useful.

I got an idea

Leave thieves alone. The ONLY thing thieves have going for them is BS build for tPvP. Thieves do have some decent d/p 1v1 specs but in real PvP these specs are worthless.

In WvW we can get more build diversity due to the rule set. This allows thieves more wiggle room to kill but if you are dying to solo thieves its nothung other than you being severely outplayed.

Kneru.8014:

A way to fix the cheesing? ICD on individual stealth abilities.

Hear me out. The issue with cheezing thieves in WvW is spamming CnD back to back. But how about a way that doesnt effect all aspects of thief players, just WvW cheezing?

Lets take CnD for example. Give it an internal cooldown of say, 4-5 seconds before you can use that specific ability to go into stealth again. Now you have to utilize more than one skill for keeping your stealth up.

This forces you to use something else, blinding powder, BP + HS, SR, etc. Put an internal cooldown on each of these abilities (to stop a group of thieves grouping together and cheezing, but maybe not as neccassary).

This wont hurt those who dont cheese, and allow them to continue doing what they do in each part of the game they like PvE/PvP. I think it would be a good solution to stop the chain CnD’s, while still letting thieves that play it more offensively and being able to use stealth skills/utilities as they see fit.

The ICD on CnD is definitely neccessary. But I’m not sure how well it would work on the other utilities (Blinding Powder for example) if someone where to do it near you. Maybe those wouldnt be as neccessary if at all needed. However, I think it would be a better alternative than +1 second to revealed, or 3 seconds of revealed no matter what. As once all of your stealth skills are blown, all you will have is CnD if you run X/D.

No.

They’ll nerf thieves some more.

Last patch they did something they said they would never do….nerf classes based off of WvW.

Now you have a broken PvE class that also absolutely sucks at high end PvP. The only thing they are remotely good at atm is WvW…..

Oh My God.8423:

Jinks.2057:

Venom Share and high bonuses to healing.

Share ur venoms and blast finish water fields….

Other than that I can think of no way a thief is a good support char

So should I equip some Healing Power stat? It sounds like Thief can offer some good heal too. How does it compare to those other supporting classes?

Well i have zero healing but 30 stealth and heal for around 1400 a person if i remember correctly.

Maybe get up to 2k not sure honestly mate.

Vyxion.6358:

Personally i stopped using offhand dagger completely and traded it for a pistol offhand (making it dagger/pistol).

Because of this I now stop channels with pistol 4 before i stealth, problem quite frankly solved in my case.

So how much initiative do you have mate?

No disrespect but i’ma call bullkitten on this one

Venom Share and high bonuses to healing.

Share ur venoms and blast finish water fields….

Other than that I can think of no way a thief is a good support char

I solo zergs.

I solo solos

I solo all

Even in the middle of 50 of my realm mates…..I’m kittening solo

Bleh typical zerg fest.

Tho jumping in the middle of a sea of BP and watching them melt will NEVER get old.

All I see is bags…..moar bags puhlease

I just understand what’s up with all the RP going on in this thread….

This yak dood wishes his guild would xfer to ebay.

/truth

Dovgan.8605:

@Jinks You can’t solo with 2 people and if you can’t take an upgraded camp with 2 people in under a couple minutes I would strongly encourage you to rethink your trait set up. And taking a supply in that length of time strongly makes me question your ability to kill any player let alone several to the extent that it would cost near a gold in repair. Nice troll though.

Between rediculous respawns and the constant enemies its not hard to keep 2 players fron capping a camp. Its the zerg friendly aspect of this game mate.

Heck I’ve killed 8 AR trying to take a non upgraded camp solo. You give me cabs and zealots that spawn fast……

Hrm I dunno why, but AR/BP just want to zerg my solo kitten #8230;.its saddening

I finally died in AR BL the NW camp…..me and an ele were trying to cap an upgraded camp for more than 30 mins or so. Between Guard spawn and AR literally THROWING bodies at us we finally died……some of those guys spent close to a gold in repairs

if playing a thief in high levels of tPvP means being nothing more than a glass backstabber who gets around with shadow shot…..you can keep it.

Ill take WvW.

In terms of purely looking at a thief….I go with WvW. Anyone can program their mouse to do the combo.

Teamkiller.4315:

Brassnautilus.2941:

7k/10s regen, chain stun, 3 cantrips and a pet.
NO eles aren’t OP. we all just need to l2p

The people in the video do in fact need to l2p. You will notice that he slaughtered numerous other DD eles in the video.

What’s the point of linking a video of two really good players taking on 18 guys? One could just as easily link a video of lolthief:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACOxV5CA52w

And claim they’re OP. Nope. That’s not skill there, that’s the class being OP. Yup. Two instant accesses to stealth + blind, double stunbreaker and condition cleanser in one utility. Oh, and stability + projectile reflect with no aoe limit as an elite. 17k HP 2.6k armor and rolling out 6-7k backstabs with ease. Yup, not OP at all.

…

But then, you might notice, he also kills a ton of thieves, so one might start to wonder “hmmm maybe this guy is good, and it’s not the thief class that’s OP” just like you should consider “maybe these guys are really good and it’s not the ele class that is OP. Oh, and their opponents were inexperienced and upleveled judging from the lack of focus and CC use”.

I’ve noticed that from thieves being called OP a lot of you guys have defensively started to look at other classes and call them OP. You’re no better than those who whine of thieves being overpowered without bothering to do their research now.

You do know in his latest video he states it’ll be his last due to this patch right?

While eles are still just as OPd as before…..

8/10 for the under cover please nerf thieves more post.

The ability is fine as is. Anet is WELL aware of how its working.

But I did have a buncha players accuse me of haxxing because of it LOL

Lots of ppl just hate stealth and refuse to learn it in any game.

Anet made the class…not us players. Remember that when crying foul because you dont want to learn about the class.

Asomal.6453:

It’s WvWvW, who cares…

The people on this board care because thieves get nerfed because of WvW.

So we’re going on a nerf all other actually OPd WvW classes campaign.

offence.4726:

Is this a showcase of skill nowdays ? WvW footage shouldn’t be taken seriously , this build is weak in competitive spvp. Can’t add anything else sorry.

Welcome to the thief forums where the class is nerfed due to WvW whines. Please enjoy you’re stay

Looks like your server is getting out played

Suralin.3947:

The only problem they have is Stealth. They can’t stand an invisible attacker. So long as Thieves can stealth, they will complain. And for that reason alone, ANet should not have touched the Stealth debuff.

True

Jack of Tears.9458:

You know what “pr0” is? Someone who can tie one hand behind their back and still play the game well … gimme that and you’ll earn the pro title, whatever that’s worth.

And who cares? Why do you have to make one build and stick to it all the time? If you have fun with a build, do it, when it stops being fun it isn’t “roxin yer sox off” anymore. kittene – it’s a game.

Normally id afree with except you can run mouse/keyboards and macro.

Adaneshade.2409:

Jinks.2057:

You’re team adapted to the fact you want to play a weaker class…..they aren’t a better team for it.

I’m sorry, that tournaments have not been a good meta for you. Most likely your insistence on being a glass cannon is to blame for that. The only reason people make the false claim that thieves can’t be an asset in tPvP is they insist on pigeonholing the class into a burst dps role (you simply CAN NOT use those tactics effectively vs a highly skilled opponent with good defense). My point throughout the entire scope of the argument in this thread is that while thieves do make a decent burst class, they are even more powerful as a light tank with a CC focus.

-edit: I’m growing weary of arguing with a brick wall….not going to engage in this conversation any further. Best of luck to ya, Jinks.

Most my conversation w/ you is in regards to WvW. I gave up on tPvP awhile ago due to the horrible meta it actually is, and it the reason i laughed @ you so hard. If you want to run w/ a premade and stomp PUGs then go right ahead mate.

But if you want to have serious discussion on about an open world PvP class then i’ll be right here.

You’re team adapted to the fact you want to play a weaker class…..they aren’t a better team for it.

Adaneshade.2409:

Jinks.2057:

Adaneshade.2409:

Is it so odd that someone who primarily competes in tournament play would design builds focused around group synergy rather than “going cowboy”?

Mayhap u didn’t get the memo, but in tPvP you sticking with your team is only hurting your team.

There is no role in tPvP a thief does that isn’t covered significantly better by another class.

Don’t believe I ever mentioned zerging points. Simply said that I build in such a way that the benefits I provide to nearby allies cause us to be greater than the sum of our parts in combat.
No other classes can cause the amount of CC on the battlefield that a venom share thief can, not even close. Not only am I stunning, immobilizing, chilling, and poisoning foes but, all nearby allies are too. That CC prevents players from being able to fight back effectively.

Who said anything about zerging points? I just said you are hurting your team by sticking with your thief.

You went and said venom share is teh best there is…….problem is you remove your thief and plug in one of the better classes to get better group utility + something your thief isn’t supplying.

Adaneshade.2409:

Is it so odd that someone who primarily competes in tournament play would design builds focused around group synergy rather than “going cowboy”?

Mayhap u didn’t get the memo, but in tPvP you sticking with your thief is only hurting your team.

There is no role in tPvP a thief does that isn’t covered significantly better by another class.

Adaneshade.2409:

Jinks.2057:

Adaneshade.2409:

Maugetarr.6823:

S/D is also stealth spam, but its stealth>wait to interrupt + daze instead of dumping stealth into backstab quickly. I’d say almost all of our builds revolve around some measure of stealth spam (except maybe P/P and S/P) since we lack the defensive boons that others have to make up for being visible 100% of the time. We have dodging as a lot of people point out, but there are several classes with vigor on crit traits which lead to perma vigor, which is better in a drawn out fight. Feline grace is nice, but since its only a 15% return, overall it provides 1 more upfront dodge but is slower in the long run than perma vigor.

That style of play ceased to really work though when the duration on daze was nerfed. It is now way more effective to play the S/D set with a more holistic approach, using daze simply as an interrupt, since it can no longer function as a “stunlock”. Use of boon shears, immobilize, and unblockable attacks are now required.
S/D was easymode when you could perma-daze, but not so much now.

S/D daze wasn’t touched in PvE……aka WvW

Are we just talking sPvP here????

Yes. Well tPvP anyway, not really even considering hotjoins as the opponent sample is on average, weak to mediocre.

really tpvp…..really

I honestly do not know what to say to this one……. ……………………

Don’t misinterpret the point of this post.

The point is even after these uncalled for nerfs on thieves…….people still complain when dying to a completely under powered build.

You don’t see nerf eles/mes/war/engi/necro/ranger threads in the WvW section do you?

No only thieves, and these rants for nerfs are baseless and wrong. Given enough time they will build up again to the fever they just previously obtained….and Anet will nerf again.

Adaneshade.2409:

Maugetarr.6823:

S/D is also stealth spam, but its stealth>wait to interrupt + daze instead of dumping stealth into backstab quickly. I’d say almost all of our builds revolve around some measure of stealth spam (except maybe P/P and S/P) since we lack the defensive boons that others have to make up for being visible 100% of the time. We have dodging as a lot of people point out, but there are several classes with vigor on crit traits which lead to perma vigor, which is better in a drawn out fight. Feline grace is nice, but since its only a 15% return, overall it provides 1 more upfront dodge but is slower in the long run than perma vigor.

That style of play ceased to really work though when the duration on daze was nerfed. It is now way more effective to play the S/D set with a more holistic approach, using daze simply as an interrupt, since it can no longer function as a “stunlock”. Use of boon shears, immobilize, and unblockable attacks are now required.
S/D was easymode when you could perma-daze, but not so much now.

S/D daze wasn’t touched in PvE……aka WvW

Are we just talking sPvP here????

Adaneshade.2409:

“How do thieves kill bunkers?

Burst.

How does stacking P/V/T on a thief beat bunkers?

They don’t."

Bunkers rely on being able to block, stack boons, and/or heal to stay alive. S/D’s weaponset is capable of defeating any of those defenses and when combined with the proper utilities, shuts down the bunker’s ability to defend themselves entirely. I have no issue whatsoever killing bunkers. Burst isn’t the only way.

Conversely, full burst thieves are unable to burst hard enough to take me down before I am able to pin them down and kill them.

I still laugh at how S/D is “pr0”

Can you name any other weaponset where the use of all 5 skills is a requirement to compete at a high level? D/P comes close, maybe even matches it for complexity since you rely on 2 abilities to combo field your stealth (in the end it’s still just a stealth spam build though).

The other are simply spam CnD / opener, or (in the case of D/D condi) spam the 3 key. (We’ll not even get into how lawltastic HS spam thieves are, as I’m sure even you can agree there)

I’d consider managing the use of 5 abilities contingent on your target’s current action/boons more difficult than the use of 2 or 3 contingent solely on your target’s current HP.

So what happens when thst glass thief picks S/D up as his 2nd weapon set?

Whats that?

Cause I can tell you S/D is infinitely easier to play. You then pair D/P up with your S/D…

Either way a good bunker isn’t going to let you daze lock them. They’re also able to reapply boons faster than you can clear em.

Then you got the awesome WvW builds that other classes get. Max defense and superb attacking power/burst.

I generally laugh at P/V/T thieves because they die faster than a 1/2 decent GC thief.

Did you get blood lust stacks as well?

vincecontix.1264:

It was good until the most recent stealth nerf where you could Maintain 11-12bleeds on you opponent, now you can only maintain 7-8bleeds. You can still do ok but its not that great anymore.

~Shikamaru X

Long time no see.

Still on IoJ?

Adaneshade.2409:

So what are you attacking then, Jinks, the build or the weaponset?

If build…….
You yourself admit that PVT builds are superior to Berserker by your previous post, particularly the “If those few players actually ran bunker…..omg is all i’ma say.” statement. What kind of braindead person would purposely kitten themselves by running berserker over PVT.

If weaponsets…..
I still maintain that S/D is harder to learn than D/D. There is a reason that the vast majority of the thieves you see in hotjoins are D/D, (hint It isn’t because it’s difficult to use).

At the same time, a much larger % of high level tournament players run some variant of S/D builds.

This is because S/D is harder to learn, but has a higher performance, once mastered, than D/D does.

PS – I’m still waiting on you to provide any link to you contributing any builds or guides of your own development to the thief community. It seems as though you are simply content to belittle the attempts of veteran thieves to provide education to the newer ones on options other than “moar pew pew”.

How do thieves kill bunkers?

Burst.

How does stacking P/V/T on a thief beat bunkers?

They don’t.

I still laugh at how S/D is “pr0”

It seems the latest round of nerfs were not enough, and players are starting again to call for more thief nerfs

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Another-NERF-thief-topic/first#post1747683

Like I said before…the nerf wasn’t needed, but it was only a l2 kitten ue.

4 secs reveal + no culling and they still complain…..