Guild Wars 2

I know some players that got their main account “perma-banned”.

It’s start with a temp banned of 3 dayz.

So, not sure if the team on “report” is consistent, but they produce some results.

Vicariuz.1605:

Shylock.4653:

Vicariuz.1605:

Is there ANY ONE playing the game any more?

This is the fourth season with this really bad league system. I think many people have lost hope and stopped playing PvP.

they must have, i get queued with and against same people all day win 2 lose 2 win 2 lose 2. im sick of it. how are u supposed to win streak against pro league players with kittening potato in ur team? “hi guys im new to pvp” (as i see PZ and NL members on other side)? how is this fair after i wait over half an hour for queue?

Easy solution:

Find a main Guard/DH that have crappy MMR and play ruby/emerald (best population division is that).

Do one night of 1v1 with him, while you queue together, so he get better.

Ask him to hold one of the side point and support him.

Your queue time will get faster because of his MMR.

The key is to find the good guy and train him in exchange to have him show up on your play scheduled.

The most basics things is score need to related to all “contribution” to a win.

This means supports, holding points score is underrated right now.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Jourdelune.7456:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Lol, at engis beating DH and at league meaning nothing. Scrapper are so lame atm that I have yet to lose against one since league started.

And what jourdeline said.

Sorry Bro, you got killed by me on your GS Power warrior homebrew build a couple of time the last month.

Not my fault, Retal can be OP when you don’t look for it.

I don’t recall dying to any scrapper since the league started … or to put it in plain words. I have not lost to a scrapper from ruby to legendary. Since I don’t quite remember what happened in saphire

Yesterday, you played versus [GOOD], i was with them.

Anyway, I agree that it’s harder for any scrapper to kill things in 1v1. We can stale correctly for a long time, but killing is way harder.

We need to time our gyro destroy daze, with our hammer 5 and 3 at the good moment to hammer 2 to death. Some poisons helps.

But saying you never lost to a Scrapper (even if it was me or not or somebody else) is kinda “far fetching”. Even pro players die.

Hammerguard.9834:

Yeah, good scrappers are rare. They’re all annoying as hell to kill but if you want one that’s hard to kill and hurts play vs Lycar. He’s proven that that class is still broken in my opinion.

Scrapper are still good in 1v1 but not versus all classes.

Most META build right now, will own scrapper at equal skill level.

The scrapper META build is more utility/support oriented right now, then build for 1v1.

It’s all about the damage nerf and the healing cast time (easy to interrupt) that make us subpar versus REV, DH, Reapers, Mesmers.

Others are still manageable on same skill level. But being countered by half the meta classes is not balanced, compare to them who got most likely only 1 or 2 other builds to counter them.

But… who care, since Scrapper is now the support build, 1v1 is not important for them. Scrapper role is to rotate the faster they can to the next team fight.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Lol, at engis beating DH and at league meaning nothing. Scrapper are so lame atm that I have yet to lose against one since league started.

And what jourdeline said.

Sorry Bro, you got killed by me on your GS Power warrior homebrew build a couple of time the last month.

Not my fault, Retal can be OP when you don’t look for it.

We did recruit some great new veterans in the last month.

Please ask for a guild invite.

More entries for you to look into!

Ninski.5680:

Is there any reward for playing in S4? I have the wings and I’m not seeing a title in the achievement section and have 210 pvp tickets rotting.

The reward is the satisfaction of winning games when you must carries bad players wins.

Wasted.8497:

HoT elite specs are easy to play and learn, they attract players, and are op, so the f2p accounts buy HoT. Meaning everyone that is wanting the back piece, and that pips are killing the pvp community because. The HoT elite specs make it so hard to kill people that they had to remove bunker ammys, instead of balancing the specs. This was not a problem pre-HoT. There is just way to much defensive traits and utilities now to where it doesn’t even take skill to run certain classes, and also the aoe from these specs is to player friendly instead of a coordinated single target burst from the more skilled classes. These aoe’s give players the ability to just burst randomly and hit stuff without even targeting, which is pathetic on anets pvp team and take no skill at all. Pre-HoT pvp, was what would have brought this game into serious esports.

I agree.

They did try to convert their pve population (millions) with easy passive or OP skills to pvp population (thousands).

The break the pvp population (thousands are gone to balanced pvp games) and pve population prefer to kill scripted dolls.

It was so wrong but it’s too hard to rollback.

sPvP lifespan for average joe is 3 months.
For smart player that like pvp games, 6 months.

We know each other, that it’s really hard to create a spvp guild and keep it alive for more than 3 month. (except pro league guild or MISTCORE).

Actually, since last patch DH symbol will out-sustain scrapper meta build and give more burst at equal skill level.

Scrapper is not the 1v1 god it was when HoT released. All the nerfed we got make us more like utility/support bruisers for team fights where “rez” matter.

Our heals are too easy to get interrupt now and Guard got enough interrupt to rekt us hard.

Velimere.7685:

Expansions are B2P, not P2W.

For sPvP in Guild Wars 2, expac are Buy to Win (B2W).

brannigan.9831:

I don’t think having to cough up 40 bucks every couple of years is a big deal personally. I know a lot of you are 10, or act like it, and thats like 3 years of recess money saved up but really if you add that to the tooth fairy monies you should be able to get HoT.

Already been there.

People have difficulties to pay for FOOD. Half the world do.

There is 90 millions playing LOL right now. Because mostly, the business model let them pay cheap food.

To have fast QUEUE time, you need to get people into it. Not make them flee with Buy to Win dying mindset.

Fivedawgs.4267:

And how would they make their money?? I mean Lol is coming up with thousand of rip-off under the umbrella of new ideas to make money. That should tell you the market is dying!!

So much dying that it is much more viewed in millions of hours a week.
http://www.geek.com/games/the-10-most-streamed-video-games-this-week-1646668/

Or dying like bringing 1.6 billions of dollars revenu for 2015:
http://www.dailydot.com/esports/league-of-legends-2015-revenue/

Or dying like the new explosions of sales of MOBA in 2016:
https://reviewreaperblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/23/moba-demand-and-market-structure/

“*Over this two year period the average growth rate is 6.50 %(9)*. The annual growth rate is from 2014 – 2015 is 9.30 % (10). This constant growth can be attributed to 2 particular drivers. The premise this game was built was for a more technical crowd that wants a very challenging game vs LOL where it was designed for more of the “average MOBA” user. Hence DOTA is targeting a very specific niche market therefore their growth isn’t as prominent as LOL but it is growing at a good rate. The second reason for DOTA 2 growth is the large pools for tournaments.

By having a larger prize pool for competitions they are able to attract more pro players and average player for hope of winning this pool. This hope automatically attracts gamers to DOTA increasing their size and skill levels. This makes for more interesting events, which adds more publicity and allows DOTA to keep there game focused on the niche market it has established in.

What does this all mean?

These games are growing faster then the market trend of 2.93 % as calculated by PWC on their industry report. The growth rate of both these games are not due to sheer luck however it’s the ability to focus on their marketing strategies well and enhance their strengths. LOL is able to create a platform where gamers of all skill levels can compete with a reduced learning curve, well-developed referral program and its length in the market. DOTA 2 has a healthy community by focusing on their niche market in the MOBA industry and high rewards that attract high skilled players which adds more quality to the community. Each has their unique method to capture the market. The combination of LOL and DOTA 2 forms 80.3 % of the market for MOBAs (Zhao, 2015)."

If something is dying, it’s not MOBA market that grow 2x faster than other game type.

SneakyTouchy.6043:

nerovergil.5408:

If players like the games, they will throw u money. p2w never a good ideas.

If you like the game then buy it. Problem solved. If you don’t like it, you don’t belong here.

It’s the MMORPG “mindset” and it’s why MOBA are 10x more successful than MMORPG right now.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Silv.9207:

They had also to add MORE Elite Specializzations, as they said. And that, yes, would improve the build diversity.

Anyway actually there’s a lot of build diversity. I belive that only the Necromancer is forced to play condition and the guardian direct damage, all the other classes have meta or good builds for both the damage sources, sometimes mixed. And some have also other builds than dps. For example the guardian have the dps and the bunker, the mesmer have the direct and the condi, sometimes also the supporter with wells. Thief have different good builds to use like the old decapper and the new total dodge builds 8really strong to hold a point, survive for a incredible long time and inflict really good damage).

If you look only metabattle there’s few to none build diversity, if you look at what the players play there’s a lot of build diversity.

i play Necromancer and I can say that there’s different builds that really work (still counting the bottom tier of the necro in this meta). I played with the “meta” symbol build, with a Corruption build (that frequently is better to help the team, with only little lesser boon corruption and damage) and even the minion master build. more or less they have the same focus: boon corruption and +1 player (with the Mm that have better damage with lesser boon corruption, but also spam poison with minion death).

Anyway, the F2P Experience have not to be the best experience of they’re life.
They’re F2P and they Have to Know that if they Buy the game they obtain something Better than what they actually have!

Answer me: If you will be able to play at the exact same level of a player that buyed the game, how many reasons will you have to buy the game?

If you’re a F2P you can TRY the game and BUY it if you like.
If you don’t buy it, you will always play a TRIAL VERSION of the game.

This pretty much … what jourdeline doesn’t get is that WoW has the best monetary system when it comes to MMO. Anet is sacrificing a lot since they are b2p not a monthly subscription based game. MOBA are slowly dying, and it 3asy to gauge by looking at the tactics Lol is using. They went from skins to chest to comma or whatever they are using these days. Most F2P players on MOBA never spend more than 40 or 30 bucks on the game.

What you don’t get is this:

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160211006451/en/Activision-Blizzard-Announces-Fourth-Quarter-Full-Year

Generated Operating Cash Flow of $1.2 Billion in 2015 for ALL ACTIVITIONS GAMEs.

http://www.dailydot.com/esports/league-of-legends-2015-revenue/

Report: League of Legends made $1.6 billion in revenue last year

Well, LoL is Laughing out Loud right now.

Please, be serious when you speak about business model.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Jourdelune.7456:

I wish we have spvp only account, that will stop wasting bandwith on pve and wvw update.

So, the footprint of the spvp only account would be smaller and we can use our “capped” bandwith data to something more useful.

For Free to Play, spvp only account would help raise the population that don’t want to get 40 gig of data that many people in the world pay with “cellphone internet dataplan”.

More information here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/sPvP-needs-its-own-business-model/first

Dude this game is an MMO. Spvp is an add on not the other way around.

Then don’t complain about Queue time.

Spvp is a MOBA that got killed (no moba on the market have under 100k players…) by a casual MMORPG experience.

Silv.9207:

Yes, Buy the game grant you better things.
Maps, Items, Dungeons, Specializzations and a new Class.

If you don’t buy the game why ANet have to make you able to obtain all the things that the full game grant to his owner?

Specializzations are better than old classes? Of course they are!!!!!
Is it right? YES!!!

Why? 3 reasons:

1) If I buy a game I want to use all the things I can, expecially if that things make me stronger than who don’t have the game. Do you want specializzations? Buy HoT. or the game itself, that is the same thing now.

2) the F2P mode is NOT the game!!!!!!!!!!!
You TRY the game, then CHOSE if you want to BUY it and have all the pack, or not.
it’s only a TRIAL Version of the game, Not the Full game.

3) MARKETING!!!!!!!!! MONEY!!!!!!!
Seriously, do you will ever buy that game only for a new map, plane a little and do a new raid? You will buy for the new class and the specializzations. That’s why they will Ever be Stronger than the main classes.

It’s Buy to Play.
Do you want to Try the game? Try it. Do you want to Play the game? Buy it.

Are you an old player that don’t want to spend money for the expansion like all we did? Your choice. But you’re not able to ask for any kind of QoL improvement why you’re no more playing the Full game but only an Old Version of it.

Be happy.

And because Gw2 is Buy to Win, all the possibilities from the Free to play market are dead.

Hundred of Thousands of players will skip Gw2 spvp for your old MMORPG mindset.

Welcome into the world where MOBA are 10x more successful than MMORPG.

I wish we have spvp only account, that will stop wasting bandwith on pve and wvw update.

So, the footprint of the spvp only account would be smaller and we can use our “capped” bandwith data to something more useful.

For Free to Play, spvp only account would help raise the population that don’t want to get 40 gig of data that many people in the world pay with “cellphone internet dataplan”.

More information here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/sPvP-needs-its-own-business-model/first

No, it’s not buy to play.

It’s buy to win.

Buy to play would imply that Specialization are side-grade of core spec. Colin said hundred of time they plan to side-grade.

Actually, we all have been lied to buy something.

It’s cleary an upgrade.

So, it’s not buy to play. It’s Buy to Win. So plz everyone, use B2W in regard to that topic.

Entenkommando.5208:

The obvious reason is that a visible MMR would create elitism where everything below a certain rank would be excluded and this would go against anything they want to accomplish.

So, actually, high skill players don’t try you up… even if you are in the same MMR range because they don’t want to rekt their own MMR. Since they don’t know your MMR, they would not risk it.

In this case, the top players are more “closed” on themselves.

Having tools to look at new high skills players, would help giving some fuel to new future pro league team mate.

Some guild in the past, did remove member below a certain rank. Let’s say 500 and up, go deleted. That was top tier guild. (even some goes to 200 rank)

But most casual spvp guild did ask 80% and up.

It’s normal to fix baseline for the quality of the players of your guild. Nobody want their guild MATE MMR rekt to 20% because they lose versus those kinds because they got that kind in their group. We had been trolled by second pro account, simply to rekt ranking of good players from another guild.

Without tools and STATS, everything become “subjective”. Drama is much more worse, because all is decide by everybody own opinions.

This subjective aspect is making more bads than goods into letting new high skill players get known by the old BETA veteran high skill crowd.

Wolfric.9380:

Its funny and i like the looks when they die with a WTF obove their head. In WvW they come back adapting their build often which gets harder of course. It quite good for casual play.

I really like the fact that we can burst either burn or bleed. Fire attunement on cooldown, the bleed waves is coming from earth… Earth on Cd… Fire is up again!

I mostly never go into Lightning with my build, except when i need the blinds. but I play scepter/warhorn.

:)

Great analysis.

Note: When the MM put 2 or more same class, the MMR of the team become higher.

So, the 3 or 4 guard team, would mean they need a team with higher MMR but don’t have enough player to make it, so it artificially raise it by stacking the same FoTM classes.

Source:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

The second phase of the algorithm is the scoring phase. During this phase each player is scored against every other player being considered for matchmaking. The metrics used during this phase include: rating, rank, party size, profession, ladder position, and dishonor. With each metric the system is looking for players that are as close as possible to the average of those already selected. The system also attempts to keep the number of duplicate professions to a minimum.

Scoring/Profession/@max Target maximum number of professions that should exist on a team.

Scoring/Profession/unique Score added or removed for each unique profession, under Scoring/Profession/max, the potential roster would add to the team.

Scoring/Profession/common Score added or removed for each duplicate profession, at or above Scoring/Profession/max, the potential roster would add to the team.

Josh Davis.6015:

We’ve been talking about personal score a bit. I’m personally of the opinion that it isn’t representative of a player’s effort in a given match, and it also can be incredibly misleading and potentially lead to bad gameplay habits (5-capping home).

If you were to redesign personal score, what would you do? Does it track different types of stats? Would you want your personal stats displayed to other players?

First, you did made small great post for the last week. This is a welcoming change. I am really happy to see Anet trying to “engage” more in communication with us.

I think score is not great. Stats are good.

We need to get all those stats stored and accessible through a Player STATS search panel into the MIST. Like Smite or MOBA, stats for esportz are gods.

Most moba, all stats for all players for 1 match are accessible. It’s good info to ponder/analyse afterward (while waiting on queue). Please save match so we can replay them.

It could help team leader to know who in the team is good at what and how to help the team trains in the various “stats” of the game.

Furthermore, having stats leaderboard for fun… would be nice. I don’t really know for sure, but I think I should be around in the top 100 rezzers of this game. It would be nice to show around, or at least give an indication that I really like rezzing (support) build. It’s biased per games played total, so because of the biased… you need average stats has well, more you play harder the average is hard to maintain.

For a small fix that cost is low, giving 2 points / tick on a contested point of your color you stand on, 1 point / tick on a contested grey point would help to give proper boost to point holder score.

Score for outnumbered fight would be nice too. It’s harder to kill when you are 1v2 so you have less points for doing it. But doing that is (or should) be the best way to wins other two points.

mrauls.6519:

Aenaos.8160:

50/50 match making is not garbage.
Just as you get bad players in your team,so does the other team,as the MM tries to match the teams as evenly as possible.
If you can carry your weight,and if your team mates can do the same,and if the other team can’t do the same,you’ll win the match.
Apparently there are a lot of players that git carried by the fixed matches of seasons 2 and 3,and now that the odds are even seem to have difficulties in advancing.

Although it would be nice if tier and pip protection were removed completely,you still are not able to advance from ruby to diamond playing solo queue if you can’t play your class.
If you get carried by premades,that’s another story.

I don’t want “bad” players on my team. I want both teams to have players of equal skill. With S1/S4 match making, teams feel like they were artificially made to have “equal skill”. I don’t like that type of team balancing. I should feel like the people on my team are “on par” with me

We don’t want “bad/noob” players on our team. We want both teams to have players of equal skill.

We don’t want “bad” players on ours team. We want both teams to have players of equal skill.

We don’t want to get bad players to play versus over and over.

We don’t want to get too strong team over and over.

We want both teams to have players of equal skill.

Big props to mrauls.6519 for the syntax need to get heard.

Solstace.2514:

50/50 matchmaking is probably the best way to test your individual skill. You have far greater impact given that all things are otherwise equal. I much prefer this to the team stacking of last season.

I would prefer team stacking that consider both MMR to be in closer range than s1, s2, s3, s4. (remove the pip range / divisions, it don’t matter for skills)

It’s much more fun to play with and against people of your skill level.

When you get noob stomped over and over, noob don’t become casuals nor hardcore player.

SneakyTouchy.6043:

Jourdelune.7456:

Reikou.7068:

Josh Davis.6015:

The problem (that we’re solving for S5) is that we’re currently searching for players close to your division to match you against. This means that the pool of players that we can pull from to create a match is much smaller than if we were using the entire pool of players. A player may have a high-enough MMR to put them in the top 100, but if they’re in Sapphire they’re only going to get matched with players that are in or around Sapphire. Season 5 will use the entire pool of players for creating matches – this should help the system create more balanced matches and improve queue times.

Are you also going to be tying MMR to Division in Season 5? I can see the proposed method working IF division was tied to MMR. However, if it isn’t, the division players end up in will literally be the result of RNG and grind.

The other alternative would be to alter pip gains/loss depending on a player’s MMR. The higher the MMR, the more pips they gain per win, and the less they lose on a loss.

The lower a player’s MMR, the less they gain on a win, and the more they lose on a loss.

I think you got it backward.

Higher you are, higher your risk.

Lower you are, higher your gain.

High skill players should proof they are really this.

Lower skill players need chance to show they are better.

To balance that, Anet give more MMR to lower win vs higher lost.

And they remove more MMR to higher lost vs lower win.

All the process should be —> transparent like it is in Overwatch.

Show all MMR and all “gain and lost” on it at the end of the match. All need to get calculated individually vs opponent team mmr avg.

No actually it’s not backwards, you’re just misunderstanding.

Yes low MMR should get a higher boost to MMR after a win. This is how it currently works and effectively predicts how much a player is going to contribute to a match.

What he’s saying is that during a win, the player with the low MMR should get few pips and the one with high MMR get more pips. This is a method for separating tiers by MMR.

Essentially this is how it would flow for an individual:

You have average MMR in your tier and you are playing 10 games. You get a lot of wins so your MMR goes up until it is higher on average than the rest of the players in that tier. Then you start getting additional pips for wins to help push you into the next tier.

In the next tier, you have the lowest MMR on average. If you lose a lot here, you will fall back to where you were and bounce back and forth between tiers. That means you are among people of the same skill level and you would stay there until you improve. If you instead were winning in this next tier, your MMR would increase more quickly because it was lower than average at the time.

After many many games, your tier will represent other players who have similar MMR scores. You will be very likely to be placed both with and against players who play similarly to yourself. You won’t have to worry about getting garbage on your team, nor be forced to play against anyone with an extreme skillset. Blowout matches will be much less common.

Well thank you… my gain is for MMR, i don’t care about PIPS. I deformed the reading.

Wolfs Shadow.7234:

“We’re not at a point where we’re able to discuss the changes we’ll be making to PvP Leagues for future seasons, but making rewards more accessible for casual players and making divisions prestigious and a more accurate indicator of skill are among our highest priorities.”

This is why I quit your game. GW2 developers are clueless to what made GW1 pvp great. As someone who has spent over $3000+ to support the development of GW2. (not because I am rich, but felt good to support a game I love); the continual disappointment is unreal. STOP PANDERING to casuals

- Good luck

“We’re not at a point where we’re able to discuss the changes we’ll be making to PvP Leagues for future seasons, but making rewards more accessible for casual players and making divisions prestigious and a more accurate indicator of skill are among our highest priorities.”

We need prestige rewards that are not accessible for casual, while casual can have great rewards to work for in spvp to bring back in pve or wvw.

Let’s say Ascended casual stuff, prestigious legendary stuff.

We don’t need 10 new items per month like in PVE.

Just something to show people around that we are sPvP invested (casual) and sPvP prestigious (only real good players).

More rewards for ALL, plz.

Saiyan.1704:

Jourdelune.7456:

Saiyan.1704:

We’ve had quite a few “skill based” systems but they all evolved around win percentages. The higher it was, the higher your mmr was. Same for the players you were with.
…

Sorry, it was much more complex than based on win ratio.

I was at 125 rank on the leaderboard and since I was into a casual pvp guild at first, my win ratio wasn’t higher than people rank at 500 or even 95% under.

Win ratio did help tons with a small subset of games, like in 2013. But they fixed that in 2014 to make sure players that only play 20 games (20 win, 0 lost) don’t get rated in the top 100 rank. (even if those account did beat top 100 rank players, usually another account bought by a top 100 guy)

Oh right I forgotten about that system too. But that system emphasized grinding to the point where any consistent player can be top 15. Now, they indeed incorporated win-ratio towards the end but it still had huge flaws.

I’m curious how they’ll add a more Skill base approach to Leagues but that’s not the challenging part. The question is whether or not Anet can make – say Emerald – “rewarding” enough for players to keep playing through it.

The grind of wins was put into in test season 1 in january 2015.

It was like going back to alpha stage of ranking.

In 2014, where dd ele was dominating and bunker guard got replace by stacking 2 dd ele, the board was skill based and “tuned”.

The decay was still a problem, many top 100 didn’t play prime time in fear to lose their positions. Playing in night or day, avoiding evening. This was the little glitch of a fair ranking system for the 100 to 1000 ranked positions.

The decay was only on RANK and not MMR. Doing it more slowly on MMR, would had help to make more movement on the top 100 board.

Literally, Team PUMA (friends of MISTCORE in 2013-2014) was all in the 100-200 range and they played 2 or 3 games per week. They kept their rank in that position… with MMR and all. But obviously it was not enough.

If their MMR would decay after a certain threshold (i say 20 games per week), they would had drop the ranking much more.

mazut.4296:

Honestly there should be a system in place that doesn’t allow more then 1 of each profession at the same time. Either the players need to swap or the match doesn’t start. Or we get the option to swap before we enter the instance.
This should be only in ranked, so the new players still can play their single character if they dont have the option to swap.

Nope.

Can’t stack same class build + amulet would be much less DELETING the GAME than your proposal.

Class switching and loading template at the start of the game, is what make HARDCORE players stay in the game.

Nighthawk.4687:

My ruby queues were quite fun, ESL players in most of the games, prominent names, twitch streamers, people who basically knew how to play. Most of my matches were fun and competitive. I hit diamond with ~60% win rate. Then my queues turned into complete garbage, no one knows how to rotate, people lose matchups they should win, the team loses a 3v2, etc. It feels like diamond queues should actually be emerald queues. Seriously Anet what gives? Why is a higher division filled with players of lower skill than the previous division? Something is clearly wrong.

The real answer is in all division entry tier, you got the bad that can’t lose divisions.

The better player will find a way to exit the first two tier fast to never lost too much in there.

If they lost, they are guaranteed a big MMR hit.

It’s probably what happening to you. Your MMR got trash by Entry tier Grinders with bad MMR.

Thank you guyz for all those new options. I am casually playing condi ele in unranked and found it quite “fun”.

My team mate are like, WTH that guy is laughing out loud around…

Please can you do the breakdown list why Arcane is better than Water for bunker?

Saiyan.1704:

We’ve had quite a few “skill based” systems but they all evolved around win percentages. The higher it was, the higher your mmr was. Same for the players you were with.
…

Sorry, it was much more complex than based on win ratio.

I was at 125 rank on the leaderboard and since I was into a casual pvp guild at first, my win ratio wasn’t higher than people rank at 500 or even 95% under.

Win ratio did help tons with a small subset of games, like in 2013. But they fixed that in 2014 to make sure players that only play 20 games (20 win, 0 lost) don’t get rated in the top 100 rank. (even if those account did beat top 100 rank players, usually another account bought by a top 100 guy)

Pro league have a dumb no class stacking rules.

It should at least be able to have the same classes with different amulet (role).

This would be “smart-class stacking”. Or iStacking, I don’t care. DH mender and DH burst marauder bring two different thing on the table (with different weaponset/runes/sigils…). Options are good.

Deleting all our possibilities, is bad.

JTGuevara.9018:

So,50/50 is back.

Well, at least the matchmaking is fair. Despite what players say, this is BY FAR the most fair matchmaking system. We’ve had 50/50 since season 1 and, I think, the beginning of the game.

Unfortunately, the problem IS and ALWAYS will be, the league system. The league system just doesn’t work in this game. As long as you have pips, matchmaking will always be a problem. Guaranteed.

I am sorry, the MM is not fair.

It’s not fair to put noob with average with decent players.

What is fair, is letting noob play together.
Average players play together.
Decent players play together.

It’s unfair to have match where I have 10 in my team (for humility, let’s say I am 6) then the other match, I have 2.

Fair is 1,2,3 play together (noob).
4,5,6,7 (average)… and 8,9,10 (decent) in team vs team of the same category.

So yeah we have a balanced MM that put 1 and 10 together versus 5,6,7 and guess what…? Autowin for the 5,6,7 and so… they know how to make you win and lose 50% of your time.

With a fair system, it would not be a 50%/50% by fixing team with MMR. It would be 50% win ratio for some, 40% for others and 60%+ for the true carrier of this game.

What I did just gave you, is the old MM system that unranked have right now or we had in rank for the first 3 years of this game.

Ranael.6423:

Jourdelune.7456:

SneakyTouchy.6043:

The match quality in unranked is better.

It will be always the case. Pip range don’t show skill at all, except for the first week or two.

It would be better to match bads (1,2,3), average (4,5,6,7) and decent (8,9,10) together without the pip range for faster queue. A 10 Amber, is still a 10.

But wasn’t it the biggest issue for season 1? I mean the top players had actually more challenging fights than beginners improving so in the end the top players were climbing the league slower then average player. Hence the league was not displaying skills.
That is why they went to season 2 MM, that is all good players within a pip range were paired together against the worse so they could crush them and climb the league faster until they found a pip range where players were equally skilled. In that case there was frustration from both side because games were either to hard or not challenging enough.

Maybe a better solution would be to give more pips than one in case of victory, but contrary to season 1, not to players beating the odds but based on MMR compared to team rating or compared to the league you are in (for example top 20 % MMR in amber gain 5 pips then 4 in emerald…). In other word allow the good players to escape low levels more rapidly.

Without ANET showing US our MMR, you can assume it was like this. But I am sure it was not.

You can’t have Chaith on your side one game and have Noobs on the other game with this:

It would be better to match bads (1,2,3), average (4,5,6,7) and decent (8,9,10) together without the pip range for faster queue. A 10 Amber, is still a 10.—-

Actually, season 1 or season 4. I had bads queuing with avg+ or decent players in my group.

They need to SHOW us numbers so we know for sure if the system is Bugged or Not.

So… obviously, they balanced MMR for team like this:

10, 7, 5, 2, 1 vs. 5,5,5,5,5 Who win?

25 vs 25

*So, they should removed divisions or pip range and only use MMR to match players up. Put decent together vs decent, avg vs avg, bad vs bad. *

All seasons MM problems fixed together.

Don’t tie pip grinding to show skill. Let MMR do the work. When I bought Gw2 in 2012, they promise me it would be a no-grind your gear experiences. Please, grinding games is even worse.

Spartacus.3192:

Sorel.4870:

For that same reason, tweaking the matchmaking system is an inefficient way to prevent class stacking, since you could always switch characters once you’re in the game.

Obviously if you prevent class stacking then it would have to include the prevention of character swapping once map loads. This has been discussed and agreed before.

1- Unless, you let them switch to a class not load on your team yet.

Exemple:
You are Tempest, no other tempest in the group (obviously) but you would prefer to play Reaper (no other in the group) then select it.

2- Why class stacking is bad? It’s META classes stacking that is. So, make sure that class + amulet is “unique”. Refer to 1, can’t select a class + amulet already in game. This open up option like: Mender Guard and Marauder Guard or Sage Engi with Marauder Engi.

3- Then… we have CORE and Specialization. With the next EXPAC (coming soon…) new Spec will be available. Why not doing class or spec + amulet to restrict it furthermore?

So, Sage engi (condi burst paper wet) and Sage Scrapper (bruiser take your time to condi kill you) would work.

I am all for good matchup balances… but I prefer to keep options to chose build / comp diversity than having artificial META created by a dumb (not dynamic) none-stack ESL rules.

Reikou.7068:

Josh Davis.6015:

The problem (that we’re solving for S5) is that we’re currently searching for players close to your division to match you against. This means that the pool of players that we can pull from to create a match is much smaller than if we were using the entire pool of players. A player may have a high-enough MMR to put them in the top 100, but if they’re in Sapphire they’re only going to get matched with players that are in or around Sapphire. Season 5 will use the entire pool of players for creating matches – this should help the system create more balanced matches and improve queue times.

Are you also going to be tying MMR to Division in Season 5? I can see the proposed method working IF division was tied to MMR. However, if it isn’t, the division players end up in will literally be the result of RNG and grind.

The other alternative would be to alter pip gains/loss depending on a player’s MMR. The higher the MMR, the more pips they gain per win, and the less they lose on a loss.

The lower a player’s MMR, the less they gain on a win, and the more they lose on a loss.

I think you got it backward.

Higher you are, higher your risk.

Lower you are, higher your gain.

High skill players should proof they are really this.

Lower skill players need chance to show they are better.

To balance that, Anet give more MMR to lower win vs higher lost.

And they remove more MMR to higher lost vs lower win.

All the process should be —> transparent like it is in Overwatch.

Show all MMR and all “gain and lost” on it at the end of the match. All need to get calculated individually vs opponent team mmr avg.

Fay.2357:

No Ithilwen, you’re missing the whole basic function of the system. I’ll try and explain it a bit better.

We can start by saying skill is represented as a number from 1-10, 10 being high. An “even” match occurs when the total skill on both sides is the same.

In the proper system, the matchmaking is drawing from a pool of people that all have similar skill, let’s say between 7 and 8. So you’ll have one team that’s something like 77888 and the other team is 77788, so total skill is very similar. However, one of those people actually has a higher skill than the system thinks. Instead of being a 7, they’re actually. 10. This unbalances the match and causes them to win. Here’s where the key part is. As a result of winning, the system moves their number from 7 up to 9, and begins matching them with a pool of people between 9 and 10. This way balance is restored AND everyone is playing people of similar skill.

Let’s look at what happens in our system. The pool of players is more diverse. You’ll have teams that look more like 23489 and 25558. If the person with skill 4 wins a lot, the system will then change their number higher, let’s say to 8. This is where the difference happens. As a result of this increase, they now are matched with far worse players in order to keep the teams balanced. Instead of moving up to a higher division of competition, they are kept in the same pool and matched with worse players.

A good system rewards winning by matching the winning player with other higher skilled players until your competition is good enough that you stop winning. Our system rewards winning by attaching bigger and bigger weights to your feet until you stop winning.

I want this:

In the proper system, the matchmaking is drawing from a pool of people that all have similar skill, let’s say between 7 and 8. So you’ll have one team that’s something like 77888 and the other team is 77788, so total skill is very similar. However, one of those people actually has a higher skill than the system thinks. Instead of being a 7, they’re actually. 10. This unbalances the match and causes them to win. *Here’s where the key part is. As a result of winning, the system moves their number from 7 up to 9, and begins matching them with a pool of people between 9 and 10. This way balance is restored AND everyone is playing people of similar skill.*

Not just balanced team.

But with all the season and pips messing MMR, we will need a revert back from before HoT. (or a MMR reset for the new players since then)

Unranked is not perfect but it feels more or less like this. The skill gap seems less awkward than in rank queue. But unranked is not enough.

Putting all 7,7,7,7,7 vs 7,7,7,7,7 would be perfect. Winner should have a better challenge next match, like 7,5 vs 7,5… loser 6,5 vs 6,5…

So all losers got a chance to win and all winners got a chance to lose.

:)

I would not mind playing with +1 or -1 in skill section, but I don’t want to play with -5 skill players on my soloq team again.

Can I skip that?

I don’t have unlimited data cap and re-downloading everything is eating half a month of internet use.

I had the same problem even using admin rights.

I did go to the gw2 folder and use the 64 bits client and not the 32 bit one. It solved my issues.

Art.8961:

so whatever i play pvp i lose a lot, i got 11 loses 3 wins on this ranked season
i dont play pvp much and im noob, i tried play unranked and it was worst than ranked
is there any skill balance or just random skill players ?

Unfortunately, since the game balance is completely gone, build matter more than anything else.

Take a “net” META build.

Like you find on metabattle.com.

Then train that build for 2 or 3 hours in hotjoin (don’t play cap, simply try to kill people).

Then do some unranked until you feel confortable with where to GO.

Then rank queue will get better for you.

Sorry… BUILD > Skill in this game. Sad, since it was Skill > Build before the june 2015 patch.

Aitadis.8269:

Jourdelune.7456:

Best counter for DH would be?

Core Engi Burst Burn build?

Full Condi Core mesmer – that confusion stack is good for noob going on flavor of the month, right?

Any other great suggestion?

Condi mesmer against good DH’s don’t stand a chance. When they aren’t blocking or blinding us, there traps and AoE are 1shotting all our illusions making it impossible to get good shatters. Can’t sit on the DH because of the traps so have to give up node, and can’t fight them at ranged because there longbow beats our staff. Either way its extremely difficult to get illusions to spawn even with Signet of illusions(50% illusion HP) and Persisting Images(20% llusion HP), so even with +70% illusion hp they still die too quickly. Just gotta out rotate them as a mesmer, I just drop a port and leave forcing him to stay there.

Sorry… I tried to have people saying the counter to DH.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_Meditrapper

It’s Power Based Burst classes. Except thief.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_Symbolic

Counters
Power-based spikes when blocks are down.
Quick rotations as this build is slow.

With season 4 League, we heard many complains.

I think this post can bring more people by different actor. Our League perception should have changes since we have more experiences with it.

Does skill ranking is still an option compare to grind ranking?

Best counter for DH would be?

Core Engi Burst Burn build?

Full Condi Core mesmer – that confusion stack is good for noob going on flavor of the month, right?

Any other great suggestion?

Ranael.6423:

Wouldn’t arcane power instead of the glyph add a bit in term of burst damage and control?
I find the glyph too unreliable and I am a bit biased by my liking of arcane power+elemental surge combo so I am not sure if this would be a better solution.
Yet you’d lose a stun breaker…

The glyph burn is stacking so well. I tried different thing on that slot, and I am not sure. Using glyph when enemy is below 50% after some fighting, will make your opponent panic on burns cause he wasted his cleanses at that point.

Ranael.6423:

Jourdelune.7456:

Ranael.6423:

Jourdelune.7456:

Actually, we are losing an archetype define by Grouch there:

It is just a matter of feeling but I had the impression that they were trying to decouple bunker and healer in order to create fragile strong support-healer and resilient selfish bunker. Not saying it is a good or bad thing but this is the impression I got from the last changes.

That would be a good idea, but there is none-bunker amulet that do the work, actually.

Bunker build that work where with class that heal and have toughness. Removing those two stats, make it way harder to work.

Probably Cleric was too high stats, so in real world, you simply lower the scaling of the skills that are OP with Cleric.

But in a poor world, where they are so cheap that they don’t give an alternative to Cleric… it’s not working like they want.

So, all meta now is a bruiser build. Different amulet because each build got traits or skills with more or less surv. The meta with DPS amulet, have strong defensive skills and traits. The meta with Condi amulet, have less defensive skills and traits than that.

A bunker that don’t do damge and can’t heal himself or anyone, or cleanse himself or anyone… simply don’t exist. Nobody will make a build only to stay on a point all game.

Power : 1050
Healing power : 1050
Toughness : 560
Something: 560

This would had solved the issue. Only 1610 stats for defensive attribute, compare to the 2100 from cleric.

But anyway, the balanced team did nerf Ele heals, did nerf Ele damage (with CD). So, cleric amulet would had been balanced.

Or maybe they want to remove bunker possibilities on some professions (because next elite spec ). But as said in your other topic there is few explanations on global intention from the devs (both balance and PvP devs) so we can only assume things because no one goes into deeper gameplay conversation with what appears to me (from my noobish point of view) as invested players.
Grouch said they want " to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat" without more details.

Sorry it ain’t happening most Marauder META build are more tanky than most Cleric Build except Tempest (that got nerfed anyway) because of HoT passives/active bunker skills.

To achieve this goal, they need to rollback HoT (including all changes, removals and nerf).

Saiyan.1704:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Why no one is mentioning scrappers? these things are nigh immortal…

They are walking utilities. Mostly only useful in not dying 1v1 on point and occasionally a block, blind, or a cc here and there. Maybe they’re utilities are useful in higher leagues but in soloQ, I don’t like having them on my team.

I still carry matches in soloq with scrapper, because all soloq players do offensive rotations while I do defensive one.