Guild Wars 2

R O C.6574:

Permafrost.2695:

Here’s the thing: it’s only displaced resentment. The resentment itself is completely warranted. Why would anyone be pleased with the fact that we’re back in a system that was already deemed to be inferior and thus rejected?

WvW got polls for this type of thing. However, sPvP still lives in the dark age where we’re forced to endure a reversion—and only on a 1-day notice. Shameful development practices.

Anyone internal can see the true age of my account. Let’s just say I’ve seen it all for GW2 and this is the nadir of how the development team has treated the players—especially when they seemingly already learned their lessons and tried to fix their practices!

The current leadership just can’t seem to help itself.

Blah Blah Blah. An example of ressentiment would be blaming Anet because you can’t win a PVP match. See above :P

ROC… you are in simple denial. Another psychologic term:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial

Actually, Permafrost is quite right. No customers in this world would endure to get that kind of treatment for so long.

It’s one of the main reason, the pvp trains is on a downward spiral for so long. F2P was one hope to get it done right but i’ts not the case. They wrecked many of their redeemable attempt to get the critical masses need for the system to work.

But it was successful only for 3 month before HoT came on. F2P need to buy HoT to win.

Matchmaking need to pair same skill level for both team.

Season 1 is mix and matches bads and good.
Season 2 and 3 was match GOOD versus BADS.
Season 4 should had been match GOOD versus GOOD, Bads versus Bads.

So… those both decisions from Anet, day 1 on season… show they don’t really care about “healthy” pvp population from the get go.

And this is just 2 exemples of 100 that still show this kind of bad decision that simply don’t let a pvp player base to grow.

They just need to pay some classes to their “decision” maker:
http://advertising.utexas.edu/undergraduate/major-public-relations

That would solve the issues.

BadSanta.6527:

Recently I have seen a lot of complaints about dh. But the truth is that dh is quit avg. honestly I have seen more reapers and mesmers then dh (I’m Druid main) , this is redcules that the meta is condi and yet dh dose not apply condi that good not even meta build and yet people complain about it and even lie about to many dh in match and that the truth…..

DH wrecked conditions build. Like all power build.

Conditions build should wreck bunker support. They got deleted from the game.

So, Conditions users play build that don’t have use anymore.

It’s why they QQ. They are simply wrecked without use.

Say thank you to PVP team. Kappa.

Guild wars 2 is a Buy to Win game.

F2P Core spvper are trash mobs farmed by “money” spender.

I really disagree with that kind of method to make money, but it’s in the game right now.

It hurt more the spvp population than giving money to Anet anyway.

Most games have F2P at 90% population. Not in gw2, after 1 week they quit for good.

Wolfric.9380:

kitten when people start to develop what i do since last summer ^^.
Fire earth arcance with scepter and brilliance + shield was what i regulary played before hot in WvW :-). This build type does significant damage. But you melt in any teamfight whith a necro targeting you ;-). Also you won´t stand to much condies so always use generosity sigil which is a slight help. Next weaknes is low stunbreaks. A well played CC warrior kills you …
So yes i main ele with this kind of builds since over a year and it works for me. But it has weaknesses. The good thing it´s quite OK against many power builds including thiefs.
In PvP i sometimes pick viper amulet with it and can run havoc against random groups. It´s very suceptible to focus fire but if oponent is uncoordianted they are toast.
Don´t think it is good enough for high level teamfights but for me it´s fun to play.

Great please, improve my build.

Ditching tempest for Earth and Sigil of Generosity for…?

Spvp please.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Why no one is mentioning scrappers? these things are nigh immortal…

Since they have the most challenge to kill in 1v1 at equal skill level, I am sure you prefer to play something more DPS oriented.

Scrapper is bruiser support.

SneakyTouchy.6043:

The match quality in unranked is better.

It will be always the case. Pip range don’t show skill at all, except for the first week or two.

It would be better to match bads (1,2,3), average (4,5,6,7) and decent (8,9,10) together without the pip range for faster queue. A 10 Amber, is still a 10.

There is this subreddit that have 2 – 3 team looking for more and some pvp guild.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/lookingfor/NA-EU-sPvP-guilds-teams-players-LFM/

Paulytnz.7619:

Jourdelune.7456:

Paulytnz.7619:

LordKage.9135:

Spartacus.3192:

Its AVERAGE MMR of your Team AVERAGE of enemy team MMR. From a pool of 10 people taken within a certain PIP range. So yeah you can have high MMR players and low MMR players. The MM will try and create 2 teams with an even chance of winning.

Exactly! why do I have to try harder because the low mmr players don’t want to get good?

It’s almost as if ANET is attempting a mmr reset by forcing all players to win / lose at insane rates for next year.

You do realise right that if you have high MMR and are getting low MMR people put on your team the EXACT same thing is a happening on the other team. So it’s an even fight (or should be in theory). So when you come up against those low MMR people on the other team you should be blowing them out of the water. However when you face the high MMR on their team, well the better player will stand victorious it’s just a matter if it’s you or him…..

No one could or should expect to win every time, that would be saying you think you deserve easy (free) wins or are the best player out there. Which by the way, even the best players (and this even goes for real life sports people and such, chess masters etc included) still have losses or a bad day.

Not at all, you are wrong, see bold comment

Top 20% MMR got paired with Bottom 20% MMR and are going versus AVERAGE MMR players.

This means, that the other team have more chance than being average than having the same configuration than you. For population we have much more average players than terribad or decent players.

So even if you carry far 1v2 capped for your team all matches, if you got 2 super terribad players fighting off-point and dying each 20 sec (I got a lot of that yesterday)… well you lose versus AVERAGE MMR.

This Means, your MMR is dropping like candies, because the system match you with the worse of players…

This means that you will lose your best players, because they don’t want to suffer that again.

So, your average players got to play with those terribad one for the last month of the seasons… you will QQ about queue time and how bad players make those games for you… but it was for us, at the start of the season.

Unranked matches are way better than any League one for proper MMR. Terribad rarely meet good players in there. It’s AVG with GOOD, AVG with BAD.

Hmm this is interesting if true and new to me and not what I thought I read from what was posted from the Devs….

However we have 5 people on each team right so the question would be:

If the top 20% are being paired with the bottom 20% you would think 2 players on 1 team are the top 20% and the other 2 are the bottom 20%. So where does the 5th person come from? Bottom again or middle? I think that would make the difference, well in my mind anyway……

If another top 20% you should be expecting to win more often if you are the top. If another bottom then yes maybe bad for the top 20%. If middle, ideal situation? I guess only the metrics could tell us and of course only anet has access to that.

So the question is, where are we each individually? Are we in the middle, bottom or top? From what people are saying here the top and bottom 20% are screwed while the middle are better off? I also guess sometimes we may fall in all of these categories ourselves sooner or later and we may even see it happening already thus the win/loss sort of nature.

For myself I have had 41 games so far this season with 26 wins so I guess most often I have been in the middle? No idea what to make of all of this tbh. Either way I am going up slowly it seems but the fights are definitely far better for me than they were last season and I am actually getting better win streaks than loss streaks.

But still, I would prefer a system that I thought it was. Take 10 ppl from the pool and put them in a match. Take the top 2 and put one on each team and continue that until you have 2 teams made. Would that not be the fairest system? It seems no matter what they do each season they want it to favour/please a certain % of the population and then change it the next season. Sounds familiar, pretty much how the flavour/cheese of the month/season classes/builds are working too…

Edit: changed the numbers of games play/win ratio as I confirmed from logging in rather than guesstimates.

We don’t know. Anet is hiding our MMR like it is a super top secret, because they know their system is full of flaw that people would speak about on forum.

Ostrich Heads.

But from my understanding and experiences, when I trio queue with two high mmr player… we always get super bad players.

If I trio queue with underrated player, we got below average random.

The goals is to place AVG MMR team togethers without trying to make team with the same MMR.

This is all speculations based on experiences and people reporting this on forum or ts or map chat or…

We are waiting for you for the next PVP season.

Season 4 give better chance to premade. Come and make yours.

Spartacus.3192:

LordKage.9135:

I don’t believe the players they are choosing is always within your mmr range. I’m positive all ANET does is grab 10 players within a pip range and attempts to balance the teams.

You can clearly tell who’s the Ace and the weakest link in each match per team…. This is completely wrong, the Ace shouldn’t be force to suffer because of the matchmaking algorithm

Its AVERAGE MMR of your Team AVERAGE of enemy team MMR. From a pool of 10 people taken within a certain PIP range. So yeah you can have high MMR players and low MMR players. The MM will try and create 2 teams with an even chance of winning.

I do recall tho that if there is a premade then it adjusts (upwards) your average MMR if you class stack and for each additional team member. So if you are a 4 man premade of 4 DHs then your average MMR will be adjusted higher meaning that if your enemy team is all solo q then they will have much higher collective MMR. Which is why you can sometimes see solo q teams stomping premade casual guild teams.

And because of this, I am “doomed” to get low MMR random on all my matches except if do a full group.

They should put 1,2,3 togethers in two different team. Then 4,5,6,7 together in two different team. then 8,9,10 into two different team.

This would be a “balanced” MM for closed matches.

MarkyMark.7615:

For me this is terrible, I’m no pro pvp player my win rate is about 60% and I’m casual but Dragon rank etc. I didn’t do the 1st season, but started on the 2nd season and I’m happy getting to Mid to late Ruby (as I did on the last 2 seasons). I didn’t get to Diamond, even though close because I found I was pretty much 50/50 winning losing and progress was that slow I didn’t have the time/energy to grind it out. I started in emerald and since the start of the new season, my win rate is below 50% and I’m exactly where I started zero pips not moving. Now I don’t know how they put players against players, but I appear to be playing against pretty good players ALWAYS. I only needed to get to Ruby to get the legendary backpiece, and now I fear I have no chance. I’m no new player, or don’t know what I’m doing. I play a lot, am not brilliant but done pretty much everything to a high standard. Please fix, this has killed PVP for me.

Ruby is easy you don’t lose pips pass a tier. You will get it. You have 2 months bro.

Paulytnz.7619:

LordKage.9135:

Spartacus.3192:

Its AVERAGE MMR of your Team AVERAGE of enemy team MMR. From a pool of 10 people taken within a certain PIP range. So yeah you can have high MMR players and low MMR players. The MM will try and create 2 teams with an even chance of winning.

Exactly! why do I have to try harder because the low mmr players don’t want to get good?

It’s almost as if ANET is attempting a mmr reset by forcing all players to win / lose at insane rates for next year.

You do realise right that if you have high MMR and are getting low MMR people put on your team the EXACT same thing is a happening on the other team. So it’s an even fight (or should be in theory). So when you come up against those low MMR people on the other team you should be blowing them out of the water. However when you face the high MMR on their team, well the better player will stand victorious it’s just a matter if it’s you or him…..

No one could or should expect to win every time, that would be saying you think you deserve easy (free) wins or are the best player out there. Which by the way, even the best players (and this even goes for real life sports people and such, chess masters etc included) still have losses or a bad day.

Not at all, you are wrong, see bold comment

Top 20% MMR got paired with Bottom 20% MMR and are going versus AVERAGE MMR players.

This means, that the other team have more chance than being average than having the same configuration than you. For population we have much more average players than terribad or decent players.

So even if you carry far 1v2 capped for your team all matches, if you got 2 super terribad players fighting off-point and dying each 20 sec (I got a lot of that yesterday)… well you lose versus AVERAGE MMR.

This Means, your MMR is dropping like candies, because the system match you with the worse of players…

This means that you will lose your best players, because they don’t want to suffer that again.

So, your average players got to play with those terribad one for the last month of the seasons… you will QQ about queue time and how bad players make those games for you… but it was for us, at the start of the season.

Unranked matches are way better than any League one for proper MMR. Terribad rarely meet good players in there. It’s AVG with GOOD, AVG with BAD.

OriOri.8724:

cgMatt.5162:

Some inter-department politics are probably keeping balance with fun gameplay from being achieved. If the PvP team can only advise what changes can be made to skills and if the balance team seems more PvE oriented, then they’re not going to know what sorts of changes need to be made to make PvP/WvW combat fun and rewarding for skilled play. I’m expecting better things with one of the last updates allowing skill splits between PvE/PvP skills, but I’d like that for WvW too since it’s often a place where exaggerations of builds see play. By removing amulets and runes, those are only band aids to real skill balance.

Lol what? The balance team is most definitely PvP oriented. Otherwise PvE builds wouldn’t be destroyed on a regular basis because they are too strong in PvP.

Well, the ping pong game between balance team and pvp team is about to blame each other for the problems we have.

Best way to fix problems, is to acknowledge them first. Then work on a way to fix them.

I really missed the feature to invite my friends when I am in a match.

Why did they removed that feature?

Any other would like to be able to invite their friend when they do a match?

Blocked players know you block them. It’s why they do that.

Simply make sure they can’t see you blocked them.

Many vet change toon name from time to time, so they are not in your situation.

I will uselly play my new builds or test on other toon name than Dal something.

1v1 was hard to completed.

I did use the scavenger amulet and it’s way better to stack burns to 5k and live longer.

I would like to optmized that casual builds. It’s fun to play ELE with unusual weapons/traits/skills. So people don’t know what to expect from you!

docMed.7692:

Am I the only one happy glass builds are becoming more and more viable and boring, unkillable bunker builds have slowly been getting shaved? Sure, everything isn’t perfect across all classes, but I confidently feel that bringing glassier builds to the top speeds up game play and further requires a higher level of skill/timing/etc than just face rolling through rotations on a bruiser scrapper/druid/tempest in the last meta.

There is still build with Marauder amulet that have “bunker” unkillable HOT passive/skills/traits.

DH, REV, Thief are like this.

lighter.2708:

actually, they should limit the stats so the game can be more fun

like if you are dps, only amulet is power precision and ferousity
if you are tank then only amulet is power toughness concentration
and if you are healer only amulet is toughness healing concentration
if you are condi then only amulet is condi precision
this would make the game so much more fun and less BS imo

In some RPG table-top system, if you are a cleric none-related attribute cost more.

So you still can go hybrid but will have less stats available to pure spec.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Jourdelune.7456:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Jourdelune.7456:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Jourdelune.7456:

@Zintrothen

+1.

We have Vitality + Healing power to counter Conditions builds. But can’t have Toughness + Healing power to counter Power DPS build.

Why?

Cleric was strong with 900 tou and 1200 healing… then, toning it to 1050 healing and 560 toughness would work great I guess.

First stat: Power + Healing / Second stat: Toughness + whatever would be good for Support build in a power burst meta.

I think the problem becomes DH bunker. DH bunker doesn’t need the HP as it can take the honor traitline and get hp on pair with mid armour proffersion. And with 560 healing already u can heal yourself for nearl a 1 k with aegis.

even with 560 toughness guardians would have nearly 2.8 armour and 3 k with stalwart defender.

While i think DH bunker is completely fine as it deals no damage and has almost no other job then bunkering and offering a tiny bit of support. Going with A-net’s vision of fast paced combat it would not be to thier liking. then add in all the QQ and toughness and healing become a nono.

Partly true, but even for guard (I have 5k games on it), the HP GM trait take the “shout GM trait” off the possibilities.

So a supportive Paladin like (say the Templar offering you did) amulet would help open up option for bunker shout guard too.

true but they have still no toughness. also the use of shouts takes place for the burst heals provided through mediations. So it’s not impossible to burst them down. I’d wouldn’t even classify them as bunkers heck both current wouldn’t be considerd bunkers imo. More durability on par with bruiserish.

Bunker don’t need to do damage. When they do, it’s broken and they get over nerf. Removal of Cleric because Tempest was OP. Remember?

So, a bunker need to sustain damage in 1v1 without giving much in return. This sacrifies imply, he can sustain 1v2 for some time. This sacrifies means he need to support the team with proteciton, regens, cleanses, mights and rez/stomp.

Shout bunker did that great. They got obsolete by OP dd ele that could do the same and still do more damage. After dd ele, they got obsolete by bunker mesmer quickness stability stomp/rez, then by Tempest ele because of Aura’s > than guard support package.

After Tempest Nerf, Bunker Cleric Guard would had been something again. But they decide to remove all bunker support options. So now, Bruiser > Bunker. This is the same stupid 2014 bruiser META. Today it’s worse because condi cheeze build of the past, now work at high level for same skills in 1v1.

To get back bunker support on track, we need toughness + healing power. Whatever the combo is. But those numbers should be balanced around the other amulet, so it’s not OP.

This is the only way to have low damage class that can sustain 1v1 or 1v2 and bringing support to “compensate” the low damage.

Actually, we are losing an archetype define by Grouch there:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/New-to-PvP-Start-here/first#post3383589

I see. The problem is that the moment a bunker in gw2 offers support. The Support kinda makes it so that u can practically carry an team. The shout guardian did not. It definately benefitted the team. But it did not carry. To me a bunker can take on 3 guys. (Bunker DH) and offer support. But it should not carry a team. An bunker Chrono could carry, qucikness, ress. perfect stomps, and tons of boons, well of precognition etc.

Having 2 tempest and u could carry a team. A single one could be argued to be balanced. The thing with A-net is that it wants to pick up the pace of the game. Some support builds have the potential to carry a team and keep them a life. What needs to happen is either nerf support builds into oblivion. Or remove bunkers and make them bruisers.. Or u could nerf tempest dps even more but that would kill build diversity.

Maby if fire traitline was made more attractive and somehow removed the dependence on condi cleanse on shouts. or atleast make it show that each shout could give 2 stacks of might to the tempest only. in conjunction with increasing might uptime by maby 20 percent for fire traitline. U could keep menders amulet and have tempest deal damage and kinda justify it dying by focused down or a really good thief or a single revenant. Just an idea i guess.

Good Bunker shout guard carries game a lot in team fight.

The problems from that build have not enough HP (since they removed attributes from traits line) and the damage should had been upgrade somewhat.

DH bunker bring meditation selfish cleanses/heals. That bunker build is not supporting much except for some prot/regen/aegis. It’s like less than 30% of bunker shout support.

The thing is, Attributes allocations should not be “chained” into amulet format. Each classes got their + and -. This need to get some way to balanced those plus and minus with attributes allocations.

But since they didn’t balanced properly the skills/traits scaling for all attributes for all classes, they prefer to put that dumb amulet system for PVPer.

The tempest cleanses on shouts is another way to cleanses. Cleansing water with cantrip, work too.

Cleansing is not related to Attribute, so not related to having better support amulet.

Only druids and DH can heals on mender because they have great way to heals/block/blinds/evade/aegis power damage. While Tempest don’t have much options in that dept.

Ranael.6423:

Jourdelune.7456:

Actually, we are losing an archetype define by Grouch there:

It is just a matter of feeling but I had the impression that they were trying to decouple bunker and healer in order to create fragile strong support-healer and resilient selfish bunker. Not saying it is a good or bad thing but this is the impression I got from the last changes.

That would be a good idea, but there is none-bunker amulet that do the work, actually.

Bunker build that work where with class that heal and have toughness. Removing those two stats, make it way harder to work.

Probably Cleric was too high stats, so in real world, you simply lower the scaling of the skills that are OP with Cleric.

But in a poor world, where they are so cheap that they don’t give an alternative to Cleric… it’s not working like they want.

So, all meta now is a bruiser build. Different amulet because each build got traits or skills with more or less surv. The meta with DPS amulet, have strong defensive skills and traits. The meta with Condi amulet, have less defensive skills and traits than that.

A bunker that don’t do damge and can’t heal himself or anyone, or cleanse himself or anyone… simply don’t exist. Nobody will make a build only to stay on a point all game.

Power : 1050
Healing power : 1050
Toughness : 560
Something: 560

This would had solved the issue. Only 1610 stats for defensive attribute, compare to the 2100 from cleric.

But anyway, the balanced team did nerf Ele heals, did nerf Ele damage (with CD). So, cleric amulet would had been balanced.

Ennui.1597:

I’m by no means a pro gamer or experienced balance developer, but I do have a couple thoughts I’d like to share.

1) I don’t think all stats are innately equal, yet we have amulets which seems to assume this relationship. For example, toughness and healing might be a bit more valuable to a player than raw vitality, yet when allocating stats to an amulet, there is a one-to-one relationship. If the relationship between toughness and healing power is too powerful compared to other stats, make those stats “cost” more in terms of allocation. I’m not sure how well I’m conveying my point, but I’m also not the coldest beer in the fridge.

2) This point, I’m sure has been made numerous times by people with brains far prettier than mine: We as a community seem to accept that amulet changes =/= game balance. I think the ele. is probably a gleaming example of a class that was pigeon-holed into a place not by amulet design, but by class design.

I’ve steered away from the topic of conversation though; toughness + healing power isn’t the problem. It’s how we allocate it. Again, I could be wrong.

1) You either change the OP skills scaling with some attribute to balanced them properly. Like the balanced team did. (i.e. Wash the pain Away is way less OP for AOE heals, thank god!)

Or you removed the Cleric amulet and do another amulet that would be less OP.

They did both.

For Attributes allocation, like you said… well Guild Wars 2 don’t have this. All stats come from Items. So, when we level we don’t have point to allocated to the attributes system.

In an ideal world, the players should use the same itemization in all game mode (like they want to have the same balanced in all game mode), so it would be easier for all to get into it. But they need a save and load build with so many things to consider.

In destroying the bunker support archetype, Anet is destroying his player base even more. The Q3 reports show abysmal money gain. Doing like Wildstar the dead game, show something that is really bad.

But still, they continue to alienated their player base, all this because each different teams got diffrent feeling about PVP balance.

I don’t know who is the big boss but since this situation exist from released, I guess he is not aware of this bad “cognitive dissonance” into his own company.

Unfortunately, the Anet Brand for PVP is down the drain. PVP players don’t take Anet seriously anymore.

style.6173:

You guys want to give balance responsibilities to the team that does matchmaking? :o

Yes, the Sales dept. are surely better to do that than the math guyz out there. Kappa.

livlaender.8790:

read patchnotes, druid was nerfed ^^

(my suggestion is to remove dolyak rune from pvp, becouse of the sixth bonus a druid gets astral form to often)

Please stop asking to remove options for ALL.

Remove Dolyak only for Druid spec.

Thank you.

Cynz.9437:

…
Fun fact, this wouldn’t be issue on first place, if thieves weren’t nerfed to the helpless pet status on purpose and could actually hold their ground w/o heavily relying on team to do well.
…

It’s worse since no bunker support meta build. But at least, it’s easy for you to “kill” things up.

Zelulose.8695:

The the update did make this game easier for bunkers that’s for sure. Just look at my druid. I was eating and skill clicking and face-rolled the match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9kssxSvF24

Can’t be bunker if you can’t eat Cleave.

Sorry, bro.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Cynz.9437:

They won’t do it because “it would be too confusing for new players” <<< i still get a laugh from this one irl.

I lol as well that the Devs think the average player is equivalent to a potato.

one thing they could implement in the game and force new players to do is idk a tutorial that explains things, but meh.

I think the tutorial is not enough.

Too many players know what to do, but play for their Glory Score. (individual points on the map)

The Scoreboard should be better tune to get people playing the game properly. But it’s not.

It could be great to have all the complains at the right place.

So all stuff that players QQ about should be at the same place.

This would help to get all other forum in a positive, constructive place.

If you like this, +1 it.

kitten.5862:

Jourdelune.7456:

TheFamster.7806:

Light Of The Abyss.5927:

This always happens at the beginning of seasons. Everyone is making their way to the division that they belong in. You can’t expect not to get placed against people better than you at this point.

IF people were better than me and I was getting stomped I’d be okay with that. What I am not okay with is I’m facing bad players who i can easily win even numbered fights but my teammates are simply worse than my opponents so I am forced to lose. Basically because of my above average MMR I am being punished into carrying players that were going to lose the match anyway and getting my time and effort wasted

Since many top players don’t complain about this. I suppose your MMR got rekt by MMR hell in season 2 or 3.

To verify this, create a team in a guild with 2 guyz you think have the same MMR than you. Then Q to see if it’s the case. The team will get a rating. This will be your avg MMR team.

I’m complaining about this

Yé… need more!

Milan.9035:

Jourdelune.7456:

Mr Godlike.6098:

So we got new ranked…patch…AND BIG WE DON’T care from any balance/pvp team for ele…who care’s on our feedback any way…

You know… what is the most infuriating thing?

It’s not just ELE who got shaft. All bunker support players did.

Now… the last bunker support of the game either convert to bruisers or find a game that let them play their play style.

The most ironic of all, is most games “support” is not fun for the majority and so it’s need everywhere. All PVP games need their Healer or Tank and they are the hardest to play well… so the hardest to find to play.

Here, they simply said to the rarest players of their game, go away, support is not need here.

Thank the gods!!

All pvp games need tanks and healers wtf. Go play wow. I love gw2 because it doesn’t have them.

Also gonna say that healers and tanks are easier to play then dps.

Removing support ele was the best thing ever in a long time for ele. Now lets work on getting them a proper zerker setup.

Well.. actually you play the game where you are a dps, a tank and a healer in the same package.

Meta Tank build : Scrapper.
Meta Healer build: Druid
Meta Power build: REV, Thief, DH
Meta condi build: War, Mes, Reaper

All build are bruisers like and do the same.

Comp wise, there is no “strategy” involved.

If you play full Berzerker build into this META, I am sure you die before doing damage. So, for your try hard elitist stance, go back 2 years ago when bunker was able to save your body with rez. It’s not viable anymore.

Wow, is grindy. I will not do that, even if I have 100x your spvp number of games. I don’t need to grind “items” to win my matches.

Build got the META status right now.

Dr Patrik.3642:

Lucred.1802:

Dr Patrik.3642:

Omega Zoa.3859:

Spoken like someone who never touched Rev, as a rev we got nerfed into the ground, and now we are bugged galore.

As for ele, try experimenting a LITTLE, don;t just auto go to metabattle, try new things, from what i seen ele is still in a ok spot, just not god mode anymore.

Well this is funny cause rev is actually my main. The reason why when playing rev all the blocks and dodges don’t feel broken is that everyone else (minus poor ele) has an insane amount of stuff to use as well. If most/all of those things I’ve listed get changed except rev, it would be to strong. Hopefully that makes a bit more sense now. As for the myriad of rev bugs, that’s a whole other issue as they aren’t intended, and should get fixed, where as the points I made are things that chosen to be put into the game.

As for ele it has the magi bunker build that makes it work in the same way warrior had gunflame back in season 1 and season 2. It works to an extent but it not optimal at all. Also, don’t even try to bring up s/f burst, that has so many flaws it’s not even funny.

I main a Rev. While I certainly don’t feel like it doesn’t have a place in the meta I’m also not seeing where we have “a block or dodge on every ability”.
-the same 2 dodge rolls everyone else has, except we don’t have any abilities that grant us back endurance (unlike thief, mes, warr)
-shield 5, except unlike every other class with a shield block we can’t move during it and it doesn’t block knockbacks/stuns like scrapper shock field, guard traps, mes float, etc.
-riposting shadows, which costs half our energy, is only usable in our squishiest stance, doesn’t break out of guard traps/ele float, and is bugged to where it doesn’t actually restore any endurance
That’s it for blocks and dodges. That’s less than basically every other class. And we don’t have any invulns. And our Glint heal is broken/bugged at the moment to where condi damage doesn’t provide any extra healing, it just negates it, and only heals off direct damage.

If you’re trying to imply the evade that’s supposed to be built into unrelenting assault, the skill doesn’t work half the time and the other half it only kinda works and you can still be hit during it (IE, the evade part doesn’t trigger). And that’s assuming it doesn’t decide to go love on a barrel or get you stuck in a wall or drop you through the world to your death.

You missed a few things so let me help you out.

Rev damage mitigation:
1. Unrelenting Assault – Yes, it does bug out sometimes but it has gotten better since the July 26th patch where it was completely broken. Now, at least for me, it works every time if I don’t have quickness.
2. Crystal Hibernation – Yes, you cant move but it’s a 3 second block with a big heal attached to it.
3. Warding Rift – A 2 second block every time you switch to staff.
4. Surge of the Mists – Not only dose this evade you, but it also does a lot of damage and eats through stability making multiple stability stacks required to not get cc’d by this skill.
5. Riposting Shadows – a Spammable stun break that restores endurance and clears cripple, chill , and immobilize. Also, it only costs 30 energy which is less than a third of the total.
6. Infuse Light – Immune to all damage and heal from it.
7. (Optional) Soothing Bastion – Another Crystal Hibernation.

So there is a lot, and IF most/all of the other classes get addressed, then these should be looked at as well.

Edit: I don’t know where you got the “a block or dodge on every ability” quote but both the person I was responding to and I never said that. Also, falsely quoting someone is incredibly dishonest and greatly discredits your argument. That is pretty disgusting behavior.

Good points, you need to post that into the REV forum, so the balanced team got some feedback from that.

PVP boards have so much spam going on, that it’s hard to follow if you don’t sit on it, really.

Sorel.4870:

I don’t think we should blame the common balance for everything you listed there. Keep in mind that the balance team, with HoT, had mostly pvp in mind when designing the new professions (scrapper presence on point, daredevil finishers and CC, reaper damage mitigation, etc…).

However, there is some truth in what you say. The most obvious proof is the amulet removal. If GW2 was pvp only, cleric would never have been removed. Grouch said himself that the amulet was removed because it was a factor he had direct control about, while naturally the better solution would have been a nerf to ele sustain, or at least to ele team support. But that’s up to the balance team.

I’ve always been sceptical about this “separated balance” issue, but this made me wonder. I don’t know Anet’s internal politics, so I don’t know how the balance team works, but Grouch’s post certainly suggested that the pvp team doesn’t have total control over balance, which is problem.

I am not sure that I would trust a team with “feeling” of removing options (amulet) when the balanced team did the nerf to Ele sustain in the first place.

Balanced team did the job on PVP feedback team. Then PVP team decide to remove Cleric from feeling. Now bunker support build are dead. We are in a real bruisers only archetype meta.

I know everybody love Sales people, but since I am an IT guy with math grades… I know that usually, Sales chose to make people happy, while IT make rules to keep things “balanced”.

HoT OP spec is to make more Sales. Remember?

It would be better to have the balanced team communicating with us, then letting the Sales guyz doing it while they blame the math guyz that did their job….

The only decent player in Anet staff is Grouch and he always play bruiser like build.

TheFamster.7806:

Light Of The Abyss.5927:

This always happens at the beginning of seasons. Everyone is making their way to the division that they belong in. You can’t expect not to get placed against people better than you at this point.

IF people were better than me and I was getting stomped I’d be okay with that. What I am not okay with is I’m facing bad players who i can easily win even numbered fights but my teammates are simply worse than my opponents so I am forced to lose. Basically because of my above average MMR I am being punished into carrying players that were going to lose the match anyway and getting my time and effort wasted

Since many top players don’t complain about this. I suppose your MMR got rekt by MMR hell in season 2 or 3.

To verify this, create a team in a guild with 2 guyz you think have the same MMR than you. Then Q to see if it’s the case. The team will get a rating. This will be your avg MMR team.

For Spvp, we are in the middle of the pack with our META build. It’s a bruiser like light on single target damage, great for aoe cleaves with good support (purge gyro, bulk gyro, stomp and rez like a champ, eg3 and eg5, + nice aoe heals on turrets water field blast).

1v1 options are less good than other META (not enough damage), but the support and sustain are better. It would be the best tanky bruiser build from my POV.

It’s hard to master and the Gyros goodies (cc, stability and effect pulse) are not easy to pull out (gyro should all been on super speed, but they are not).

suffish.4150:

Season 4 looks great from what I have seen so far. I just reached sapphire tier 3 after playing 20 games today (solo queue) and most of them were close and fun. I am seeing a lot of pro players on my team and against me as well as many good players who I fought in legendary last season so it is great to be fighting players who made it to high legendary last season because before this season, sapphire and Ruby basically consisted of me absolutely destroying almost everyone in 1v1s and winning games very easily which is both not fun and does not make me improve as a player. I think season 1 style matchmaking is a step in the right direction.

That report. So, no more noobs paired with top players? Is this true for more than 75% of the matches?

Ranael.6423:

fishball.7204:

Do they still give average MMR to new players? That might explain a bit if the system gives you a few new players that’s rip.

Not sure to understand the wiki correctly but from what I got, a new player is given an MMR of 1500 with a deviation of 350 (so his MMR range is 1150-1850) out of a total scale of 100-5000.
It may have been chosen as an average value based on player distribution, but since then the distribution is maybe different, centred around higher (or lower) value.

Also compared to OP scale of 1-10, I am not sure the algorithm authorizes a distance between highest and lowest MMR of 1200 (between the 6th and 8th minute) plus 700 from deviation, so a difference of 1900 in extrema of ratings. In a 1-10 scale it would translate to a max difference of 4, if the best is 10 nobody in that game should be lower than 6.

But again, I am not fully certain of this….

Still guild leaderboard rating never goes higher than 2500 mark and it was PZ doing it.

It goes from 2k to 2.5k with the best players.

So the 5k mark is not “real”. Top are 2.5k at most.

You can create a team in your guild and play that team… You will get a team rating to show where that team stand.

After making many different team in your guild, you could know where you stand and where others of your guild stand on the MMR thing.

It would be better to know all time the team MMR and know your own MMR. Making a friend, public, private switch on individual MMR to counter drama QQ would be great.

Mr Godlike.6098:

So we got new ranked…patch…AND BIG WE DON’T care from any balance/pvp team for ele…who care’s on our feedback any way…

You know… what is the most infuriating thing?

It’s not just ELE who got shaft. All bunker support players did.

Now… the last bunker support of the game either convert to bruisers or find a game that let them play their play style.

The most ironic of all, is most games “support” is not fun for the majority and so it’s need everywhere. All PVP games need their Healer or Tank and they are the hardest to play well… so the hardest to find to play.

Here, they simply said to the rarest players of their game, go away, support is not need here.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Jourdelune.7456:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Jourdelune.7456:

@Zintrothen

+1.

We have Vitality + Healing power to counter Conditions builds. But can’t have Toughness + Healing power to counter Power DPS build.

Why?

Cleric was strong with 900 tou and 1200 healing… then, toning it to 1050 healing and 560 toughness would work great I guess.

First stat: Power + Healing / Second stat: Toughness + whatever would be good for Support build in a power burst meta.

I think the problem becomes DH bunker. DH bunker doesn’t need the HP as it can take the honor traitline and get hp on pair with mid armour proffersion. And with 560 healing already u can heal yourself for nearl a 1 k with aegis.

even with 560 toughness guardians would have nearly 2.8 armour and 3 k with stalwart defender.

While i think DH bunker is completely fine as it deals no damage and has almost no other job then bunkering and offering a tiny bit of support. Going with A-net’s vision of fast paced combat it would not be to thier liking. then add in all the QQ and toughness and healing become a nono.

Partly true, but even for guard (I have 5k games on it), the HP GM trait take the “shout GM trait” off the possibilities.

So a supportive Paladin like (say the Templar offering you did) amulet would help open up option for bunker shout guard too.

true but they have still no toughness. also the use of shouts takes place for the burst heals provided through mediations. So it’s not impossible to burst them down. I’d wouldn’t even classify them as bunkers heck both current wouldn’t be considerd bunkers imo. More durability on par with bruiserish.

Bunker don’t need to do damage. When they do, it’s broken and they get over nerf. Removal of Cleric because Tempest was OP. Remember?

So, a bunker need to sustain damage in 1v1 without giving much in return. This sacrifies imply, he can sustain 1v2 for some time. This sacrifies means he need to support the team with proteciton, regens, cleanses, mights and rez/stomp.

Shout bunker did that great. They got obsolete by OP dd ele that could do the same and still do more damage. After dd ele, they got obsolete by bunker mesmer quickness stability stomp/rez, then by Tempest ele because of Aura’s > than guard support package.

After Tempest Nerf, Bunker Cleric Guard would had been something again. But they decide to remove all bunker support options. So now, Bruiser > Bunker. This is the same stupid 2014 bruiser META. Today it’s worse because condi cheeze build of the past, now work at high level for same skills in 1v1.

To get back bunker support on track, we need toughness + healing power. Whatever the combo is. But those numbers should be balanced around the other amulet, so it’s not OP.

This is the only way to have low damage class that can sustain 1v1 or 1v2 and bringing support to “compensate” the low damage.

Actually, we are losing an archetype define by Grouch there:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/New-to-PvP-Start-here/first#post3383589

nolasthitnotomorrow.8563:

Saiyan.1704:

SneakyTouchy.6043:

They made the same mistake a few times in a row now without learning.

PvP team and Balance team should not be separate. Every pass ends up doubling down every nerf and buff.

Don’t mean to sound like a fanboi but gw2 is still the better mmo pvp game to date. If it’s because of their system in place then I can’t argue with it.

Other than Ele, I can’t imagine any class struggling in pvp this meta.

You wanted to say “best mmorpg with pvp attached game to date”.
Other than that there are many many many many many many many many oh boy how many other games that are better pvp games. Gw2 has the best when you want to do some PVE with your character that you play PVP with as well lol.

Even with build diversities dying, gw2 is the best pvp that let you build your own classes without “grinding”.

All other mmorpg pvp require grinding and the grinders are GOD because they have better stats than you.

But… but… since HoT did kill build diversities… I am not sure that having Build options matter anymore…

So pvp game like Paragon (open beta in 6 dayz) that offer builds options (behind grinding deck cards) could be a major challenger to Gw2 pvp. The big no no, is games takes 45 minutes to play and the match-making suck like gw2 because of not enough good players (yet, the game is new and not released, most BETA player paid the game to test it, while it will be F2P with cosmetic shop).

Elegie.3620:

I’ve just started soloQ ranked games, and so far the match making seems a bit strange. The games are close, but the disparity between the levels of the player is enormous. This is important, because the individual level of players can completely influence the outcome of the game, way more than any other parameter.

The way this level is currently assessed is possibly flawed. I would suggest, at the very least, to include the total number of games played in PvP, to separate beginner players (say between 0-100 games), intermediate players (100-200) and the rest (standard matchmaking).

Win ratio means more than game played.

5k games with 40% win, shows something.
2k games with 60% win, shows something different.

But it’s not enough. If you have 60% but made it on noobs, it’s not like having 40% but played only versus top 100 players.

So, number of games + win ratio + weight of wins/lost versus ranking.

This was in the formula into 2014 leaderboard system to “rank” people up.

The 2013 editions didn’t consider number of games.

Burn.5401:

More like

red – blue
1 – 1
1 – 1
1 – 1
1 – 1
1 – 1

---

red-blue
10 – 10
10 – 10
10 – 10
10 – 10
10 – 10

Gotta make it hard for skilled players and easy for the casuals.

This should be the case.

But it’s not.

Not enough 1,2,3 or 8,9,10 playing means to reduce queue time they put 1,2,3,8,9,10 with the majority of the player bases 4,5,6,7.

So my solution would be:

Put 10 (2 teams):
1,2,3 together.
4,5,6,7 together.
8,9,10 together.

Then enjoy great matchup.

Please, many many many DH don’t run the same build.

We see some marauder, some menders, some berzerker, some paladin (yeah, really), some carrion, some wanderers…

Most of all build use sword and shield or mace focus, so you don’t even know if it’s a mender sustain or a dps one until you fight them.

If they play with Bow, they don’t play the best optimized DH build.

It’s funny, some people cry because DH is unkillable while others cry because they die to them.

This is a good sign, that Guardian got buff enough to get viable in META right now.

Even, Vanilla Core Guardian can be something again.

What is kittenly broken is REV or Druid that can sustain like a mender guard but do damage like a marauder one.

Or Reaper, Warrior sustain like mender guard but can condi burst you faster than a condi guard (or kill you faster than a marauder one).

So, Please NERF HoT and give us back BUILD OPTIONS.

GhandiBot.6257:

Playing ranked and there are so many sustainable builds it’s absurd. Majority of HoT elite spec traitlines are defensive. There’s too much access to stability and protection. ANet is too dumb to realize this. Remember when bunker amulets were a problem pre-HoT? I didn’t. Pre-HoT there were bruiser builds due to celestial amulet, however it feels that 1v1s in post-HoT last longer.

Outstanding. You are smarter than the PVP team.

They didn’t realized this, since they are only removing amulet trying to fix PVP.

Rev, Mesmer, Warrior don’t need cleric amulet to be sustaining… Guard, Ele are broken and need it to be something. And they removed it anyway. It shows they don’t understand the game at all.

So… It’s seriously dangerous to ask the PVP team control on “skills” when they removed amulet on the fly by “feeling” without having any tools like spreadsheet and matrix to balanced their classes.

Mathematician should do balancing in all game. Not sales department, nor forum moderator, not marketing guy.

Balancing to “please” the crowd since the last 2 years, just did killed viable build diversities.

Chase.8415:

Trash players talk trash.

I thought the same, until I realize many top 300 still trash talk.

It’s a “sub-culture” thing coming from Guild wars 1 pvp, where kids in their teen played versus adults.

Now those grown-up into gw2, but they still trash talk to feel better.

I could named easily 10 guyz that trash talk on TS and being able to win AG tourney.

It’s the same on PRO league level. Some tops, still trash talk. That game is “frustrating” not because it’s pvp, but because the “match-making” can’t put 2 team of even strength each matches. (nor 1 match on 10)

Mainly because Gw2 is a pve casual games, so what PVP main players are? Old pve casual converted.

After being team leader of 5 teams, I stop doing that. Trying to train promising casual players that flip game each 2 months, is too much for me to sustain.

:)

For all QQ about comp, DH and Thief or Stuff….

We just have 4 team here, not all the pro-league team and comp. (16)
http://pro.eslgaming.com/gw2/proleague/standings/

It’s the start of a new season. Comp/build could still changes.

Real Esport game give you all those stats from the game anyway.

In gw2, we need to look at twitch and do our own stats manually.

Crinn.7864:

Generally speaking PvP guilds tend to only recruit via word of mouth. The ones that recruit through the forum probably aren’t worth much anyways.

Guess you didn’t considered ASAP, Emc, TFS, YOLO (7th guild leaderboard season 1), … and many others. I’ve seen first tier pro league team from EU as well. (can’t remember EU team name… i don’t care much for that server)

I’ve read Acandis try out team, Lux fortuna team and way much more on forum than you can imagine.

SneakyTouchy.6043:

It should be based on personal MMR compared to everyone else in the match, not based on your team and their team’s total MMR.

Players who are better/worse than the rest need a factor that moves them towards their skill range so that matches are balanced and promote competitive play.

Great Idea.

There is many, but we can’t link them into the PVP section.

It’s a cross-posting fault when we do so.

So, most of spvp Looking for post are buried into PvX stuff into the forum. The search feature don’t work for me… does it work for others?

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Xillllix.3485:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Xillllix.3485:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Mr Godlike.6098:

Personally i would prefer Toughness version of mender like this:
+1050 Power
+1050 Precision
+560 Toughness
+560 Healing Power

more dps, less tanky, less supportive but still supportive, more bruiser style like rest of meta

It would probably be deemed to OP as elementalist have thier fire and air oveloads which already dealt decent damage with cleric amulet. Adding 1050 precision aka 54 percent crit chance would prolly havet this amulet removed in no time. It’s a stronger version of the cleric amulet which was already deemed to OP. Not that I agree tough cleric is fine to me, but it seems A-net is extremely carefull with support amulets. It’s for that reason they gave us absolute kittening garbage like Diviners and Seekers amulet.

They’d rather give us support amulets without any form of sustain then an bruiser amulet. Heck nobody uses palladins amulet other then then scrapper who has the boons to make use of it.

The nature of the elementalist is celestial. They can play all they want trying to force the class into total bunker or total burst, but it will just never work well with the new trait system.

When they removed celestial they removed all the build variety that was left for the elementalist. It was a disastrous mistake on their part, but certainly not the first one they made.

And what will that solve? nothing? U will get the same QQ you got last years about elementalists bieng able to do a jack of all trades.Undying, yet deal damaga and at the same time support the group.

You are better off. trying to bring an bruiser amulet with a bit less self sustain then to go back to celestial amulet.

ie replace the toughness with vitality and the precision with concentration.

That QQ was mostly unfounded and came from people that didn’t understood the class. They already had nerfed the fire line to the ground removing 12 possible stacks of might on cantrips. If they wanted to nerf us even more they only add to trim a 3-5% off celestial. Other classes used it as well and were strong with it.

The problem came when people started to play bunker ele because nothing else was viable because of (1) the damage and condi increase of OTHER classes and (2) the nature of the game mode that benifits from people tanking in a circle.

As someone else said, it’s a huge mess.

I had no problem with celestial elementalists. I wouldn’t call them unfounded even tough I personally had no problem with it. If we think in times pre hot times. In which even shoutbows or hambow warriors would count as bruisers with thier damage. Then yes Celestial elementalist would kinda count as a jack of all trades class. the standard for what counts as dps then as compared to now is several times lower practically speaking.

Ofcourse with HOT specs the effect of celestial amulet became smaller.Since power as a whole went up in general as did conditions and condi application. And u could focus them down now with a corruption reaper. It was still far from unfouded.

Really interesting. I wonder how Celestials/Soldier/Sentinel/Cleric would do with the new balances of classes.

I still think the balanced team did a great job for all game mode across the board and that amulet offering need to be wider and more customization than the dumb amulet choice we have right now.

Load and Save build would help tons, to bring more complexity and depth into pvp build.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Jourdelune.7456:

@Zintrothen

+1.

We have Vitality + Healing power to counter Conditions builds. But can’t have Toughness + Healing power to counter Power DPS build.

Why?

Cleric was strong with 900 tou and 1200 healing… then, toning it to 1050 healing and 560 toughness would work great I guess.

First stat: Power + Healing / Second stat: Toughness + whatever would be good for Support build in a power burst meta.

I think the problem becomes DH bunker. DH bunker doesn’t need the HP as it can take the honor traitline and get hp on pair with mid armour proffersion. And with 560 healing already u can heal yourself for nearl a 1 k with aegis.

even with 560 toughness guardians would have nearly 2.8 armour and 3 k with stalwart defender.

While i think DH bunker is completely fine as it deals no damage and has almost no other job then bunkering and offering a tiny bit of support. Going with A-net’s vision of fast paced combat it would not be to thier liking. then add in all the QQ and toughness and healing become a nono.

Partly true, but even for guard (I have 5k games on it), the HP GM trait take the “shout GM trait” off the possibilities.

So a supportive Paladin like (say the Templar offering you did) amulet would help open up option for bunker shout guard too.