Guild Wars 2

Xillllix.3485:

…
A good balance team would have nerfed the celestial amulet by 5% or 7% after some testing. I presume that it’s the balance team that didn’t want to balance it so the PvP team removed it. Its probably just a miscommunication that lead to more impactful complications than what they imagined.

Why cant the PvP team balance PvP, WvW team balance WvW and PvE team balance PvE?

When the balance team do changes we should be able to test them on a test server, and also they should have to demonstrate why the changes are good.

The amulet are the work done by the PVP team.

Shaving 5% stats on celestial would had been more work than deleting it.

Having a test server for balance, is a long time “inquiry” of Anet paying customer.

I still think that the amulet system is flawed and that being at the mercy of removal / change of those amulet is bad.

We are RPG players that want to PVP. We want control on our stats like PVE and WvW.

Trigr.6481:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

-Grouch

Even though grouch isn’t to blame, he essentially just told you the problem regardless if you’ve realized it or not. Since PvP is not being balanced separate from the rest of the game, the most “balance” you’re going to get is from a team who’s main concern is not SPvP. There’s a reason why every major balance patch there’s an amulet gone and a new one taking it’s place, because that’s the only thing other than runes and sigils that the PvP team in particular has complete control over, it’s just the only thing they have to change that won’t effect the rest of the game. So of course that’s the only action they can take, however that doesn’t mean it’s the right move, just a desperate one.

Until this changes the overall player population will suffer, pro league will continue to suffer in both team participation, team quality, and so on. Primarily fueled by players who are not even in it for the competitive aspect or even enjoying the game as a whole, but to siphon off whatever money is left in a dying community, it’s sad really.

Countless

I am sorry Countless but you got the smoked screen.

In negotiation or politics, the tactics to say “We are not responsible” really means, we are responsible for being powerless.

And they are not powerless.

They did removed Cleric without giving alternative to the support playstyle.

Support need a way to beat some cleave to REZ and stomp properly.

Now… to make some PR damage mitigation, they say they are not responsible… but they ARE.

They removed an amulet that was for 4 years important for a class archetype of our game mode. The support bunker. They did this without giving a Templar rune or something with less toughness on it.

The worse is Cleric Amulet is just fine, since Tempest got nerfed across the board, it could be correct to let Cleric live.

Here is the key word of the Powerful PVP team:
“For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.”

Well.. a notch would had been to give us a 4 stats amulet with toughness and healing power with perhaps less damage.

But no…. it’s not a notch. The PVP team clearly want to delete ROCK.

Mender is bad. People like how it feels, but when META will settle… no one will play squishie support over squishie dps or bruisers condies.

tl;dr – The not responsible is a smoked screen that means they are powerless.

They are responsible for the removal of the amulet. The nerf on Tempest were enough.

Removing the amulet without giving another one to take down support a notch, is removing support as a whole on the meta.

I want to take those 2 minutes, to give my thanks for Evan dedication.

He work hard on bug.

He read and answer on the forum more than the community manager (well in pvp section at least).

He is not just that guy doing programming work, he is our only “link” with Anet.

With all the QQ the Match-making did make.
All the drama about the balances.

All the bad decisions Anet did take, he is still there answering around.

Please Evan, take some breaks. We need you for the next 4 years.

Dal

Where we are now?

In a future condition META without counters.

We had 2 seasons of conditions overloads… Remember the 3 reapers team of season 2?? Or the 3 condi warrior team of season 3?

That was with having a healbot cleansing condies like candies.

Season 4, everybody would play condis or die. Or die anyway.

bloodpyrope.8630:

Not sure how much of my idea’s Evan used from way back then, but this was the short discussion we had on bringing back ranked queues during off season.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/WTB-Ranked-Qs/page/2#post6113200

My original suggestion at the time was to make 3 separate MMRs, so off-season ranked would not affect season play. It’d just be a way to separate players looking for more serious matches from people who just want to play casually.

Well, I did 2 or 3 ranked queue and the MM was kinda not working for my Duo. We switch back to unranked.

It would be nice to have a high ranked MMR players confirmed if he feels his MMR is low… cause yesterday, it was too low to accept 3 randoms noob for me.

suffish.4150:

Seriously though, does going into the ‘report player’ window to see the account name not work anymore either? I haven’t checked it yet and it is what I always did when I saw a pro/high level player in my games to make sure they were the real one.

Yes, you can’t check them through the panel. You need to click on each toon and look at the tooltips on the toon FACE.

You can AFK all you want, but like I said, the harder you lost, the harder the MMR hit.

Losing versus Pro team would not be a big mmr hit… but losing versus a soloq team of casual pvers, could need much more work to make it back where you were on the ranking.

Baroness.5147:

Bim ! Take this :

-Shock Shield: The damage of this skill has been reduced by 50%. The damage displayed for this skill will now compound instead of displaying each instance separately.

-Thunderclap: This skill no longer deals damage on initial impact, but it still stuns enemies. Damage for all pulses has been increased by 26%, for an overall damage increase of 5%.

-Bulwark Gyro: The damage reduction of this skill has been reduced from 50% to 33%.

-Defense Field: The cooldown of this skill has been increased 25 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only.

-Gyro Self-Destruct: Decreased the damage of detonating gyros by 17% (PvP only).

-Medic Gyro: This skill now has a 0.5-second casting time.

-Self-Regulating Defenses: The cooldown of this trait has been increased from 60 seconds to 75 seconds.

Please, no one tell me this class was balanced prepatch.

We got nerf much more than that.

But now on Paladin amulet, I am sure I can’t kill anything else than thief and rev. Nice those goodies got some counter around.

“I am not asking for Cleric/Celestial Amulet to be returned. I just want a decent non-bunker competitive-tier viable DPS build for Tempests to go along with the upcoming High-risk high-reward meta. We will certainly see people use Magi Amulets but there are many players who are sick of being healbots. Tempests should not be locked to a single viable boring healbot build.”

If it’s the case, Mobility, Health Point and Armor should be normalized for all classes.

I have a great nerdy son. I would never ask him to become a cheerleader girls. When you give birth to something, players that like that something come back to it. Doing 360 turn around after 4 years, is doom to failed.

I don’t know many girl friend of a nerdy guy who would love unconditionally a transgenre sporty girl.

Building is what make Gw2 and Overwatch different.

Without builds… I guess people would leave to better competitive game/esport.

Topher team (great win-lose ratio at high mmr) is looking for more to get on AG.

Overlord.7283 is looking for a team or would Lead one.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars2PvPTeams/

Saiyan.1704:

brannigan.9831:

I have to give A-net a lot of credit they made a bunch of changes to guardian and moved the ball forward a yard for them when it came to spvp viability. That kind of ineptitude is hard to find. If someone thinks Im wrong I’d like to see the builds I missing with these changes that are significantly better then what I could make a few days ago.

Hammer builds are significantly better than what it was a few days ago. Let alone the QoL changes as a whole.

I’d be surprised if we weren’t viable in higher tier pvp now.

The problem with that, is that higher tier pvp players that played Guard are either on REV or Thief roamer dps or was on Tempest Ele.

Main guardian players in ESL team, are not main guard anymore.

Even if the burst would be better than thief and rev (which is not, the burst is better in aoe for sure), the mobility is still holding the dps build.

Bunker or support mender can’t do much in -1 situation except if they are pair with scrapper or druids… both of which can do 2v3 with any other classes that bring more DPS.

Unfortunately, with 5k games as Guardian, Scissors spots are for high mobility, high dps and paper spots for bruisers like condi bursters…

Rock got killed with Cleric removal.

My Heart would wish to get Guard viable. And to do so, we need a way to build for mobility on equal footing with thieves, rev (or mesmer).

When Medi DPS was META (october 2014 to january 2015), kitten (lol the player kitten got filtered), Ementon and Vallun played that a lot. Their role was to keep home and 1v1 on it versus thief backcapper.

At least, if one team would comp for a Medi DPS DH, it would be because he is better than druid, scrapper, warrior or mesmer to hold “HOME” while the other have the mobility to go on FAR too.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

fishball.7204:

100% sure it doesn’t work for me, I played 20 unranked yesterday 0 games worked.

I even had a game where you were supposed to be on my team but didn’t join so 4v5 :< lol

ouch! you caught me rage quitting before the match started ! XD
sorry about that ya.

that was last night right ? around 11pm gmt+8:00 my time zone.

well, i wanted to play the pirate map only, well, for achievements, i did not want to spend 10 minutes playing other maps in unranked, i did not want to afk in the map so i logged out instead.

i thought i could log in other characters to play some pve but noooooo the new queue from anywhere feature dragged all my other characters back straight into the pvp match.

i had to do other things before i could go back to serve my remaining dishonor time of about 8 minutes.

Well… behind your dishonor stack, you have active (that decay fast) and none active dishonor that can stack a lot.

Do that many times in a night, you are sure to get stuck in MMR hell for some weeks or even months.

Your choice.

brannigan.9831:

I think its a faulty notion that there is a ideal type of pvp pacing your average pvp player is looking for and that faster combat is better then slower. What happens is when the combat is slower you have people complaining about bunkers and ttk being too long. Then when the combat is faster you have people complaining about burst and ttk being too short. The reason this happens is there is far from a consensus on this sort of thing different people have different opinions. The problems with this game have very little to do with the combat pacing imo.

Right.

ROCK, PAPER and SCISSOR are in nature really different. All have different POV.

When your game can’t balanced them… your game lose customers.

The first to go, are those casuals… but they are more than 80% of the player base.

So… when queue time will take 20 minutes because there is only 20 people playing at the same time. It will be too late.

Actually, gutting ROCK to make it like some sort of Scissor (squishie) DPS with Rock (support) is removing ROCK to all casual. Rock is now harder to play than scissor (fast killing other) or paper (condi burst scissor).

So ROCK can’t kill much, can’t support much cause it die way faster.

Anyway, Camelot Unchained is on the way. They know how to balance dps, support and tank. Players still play DAOC right now.

No more two AOE condi cleanse meta build to get for your team fight.

dd ele + dd ele was the stronger one.

dd ele + b. guard
dd ele + shoutbow war
b.guard + shoutbow war

And so on.

Since everybody and there mother did so much QQ about bunker since HoT (where the problem was not bunker support, but much more how REVENANT got bunker with berzerker/viper amulet and durability runes).

The 2 AOE condi cleanses support was holding all those condi build away. So much, we were able to say playing condis is Cheeze because it don’t work versus premade. Now cheeze work versus premade. So, let’s all Cheeze, it’s our new META since season 2.

Now i enjoy playing the condition build to burst with all the others. Let’s do a race, the first to condi burst, wins!

Well… a lost at 400 is not the same lost at 100.

If we have AFK sitters because they don’t have a guaranteed win, I am sorry but this affect OUR MMR.

It’s possible to win versus top players. It’s possible to lose at 400+ versus top players.

Don’t go AFK because you see the name of somebody. (can’t look at account name in spvp game anymore) I could create a Chaith toon and win just with the name, now. Since we are not able to verify it.

It’s better to lose with the most scored point. Even if it is 100 to 300, at that time you could regroup and take back home then mid and snowball the game to lose it at 400.

With proper MMR indication and results, people would play hard until the end.

Krysard.1364:

Ubik.8315:

Without cleric cleansebot ele in the meta, condis are going to be even more prevalent yes.

If ele is out, is because of power dmg, cause Mender’s is actually better than clerics against condi comps

Yeah but got 1 shot by thief or rev. Fun!

No more reliable support versus condis, except your own.

It was considered bad to be that healbot to cleanses for the group. Many people didn’t like to peel for their team mate.

That time is gone.

Everyone will die in 30 sec, except druids.

:)

messiah.1908:

Jourdelune.7456:

messiah.1908:

mesmer got buff directly and indirectly by nerfing other sustain abilities

condi mesmer still strong or even stronger
power mesemr little bit more dmg but more cc
support mesmer gone with the wind (no cleric so no toughness)

What about support with Knight Amulet?

Why did you change your thought process about it?

knight is more bunker . so less healing from shatter and from healing skill.
so less support and more point holder (accros the board)

i think the meta will shift to 1 condi, 2 dmg, 1 rez bunker, 1 sustain

ranger is the only viable support with heal, guard with bunker, thief, mesmer condi warrior condi or necro condi

Actually, mesmer rez bunker would be better than guard bunker because they bring more utilities to the group.

The Mez heals well, gravity well and null field are the utilities all group need to make it done.

I tried bunker guard and without heals its bad, without toughness it can’t eat the cleave of 2 bad players. The one go I did with your old build with knight, I was not able to sustain cleave while rezzing.

Scrapper double rez (with gyro) is faster than bunker guard. But putting medic gyro (with cleric heals) with cast time can’t help us anymore to be the bad kitten rezzer I was in season 3 unranked top games.

For the bunker rezzer, the spot is still open and Mesmer, Scrapper, Guard and Druid (pet rez) seems the best options. But… druid mender bunker 1v3 on points don’t use pet rez and he is better bruiser than Scrapper now.

Means, guard and scrapper are still open to changed for optimal rezzes…. but since I tried all scrapper build to max rezzes and got nerfed on my support gyro build. I am not sure it’s better than mesmer rez with wells sustain (removal of condition while you rez is super important).

Since you are the best Knight Mesmer around, I would really like to get your feedback about a couple of your games on it.

mrauls.6519:

Scepter + Focus/GS is pretty good with the right sigils/rune/traits.

I’m going to drop a video on my thoughts later with gameplay from ranked

I agree that the old meditation aoe burst DPS work great.

Even the 1v1 are sustainable for 30 sec or so versus most classes… it bring the ommpf need in team fights.

serj.8214:

I dont see a problem with deleting cleric its like when ppl QQ about merc amulet.

Merc was a powerful Carion.

There is no replacement for Cleric.

That amulet was used to be able to take hits and cleaves while giving support to the squishie of the team. Most Cleric build are not able to kill people in 1v1 at equal skill level. So to balanced that none killing power, it was able to 1v2 for some time, but at high level of play…. the tempest had need the peels from his buddies to be able to survive the first CC stunlock chain.

Celtus.8456:

Give players 3000 stat points (the total number on most amulets) to spend as we see fit. And add a soft-cap if needed (like 1200 or 1500 max spent on any one stat). Or bring in PvE gear to PvP. Either way will give us more diversity and I’ll bet balance won’t really be worse.

This would help the casual crowd get bigger. The “replayability” would sky rocket. People don’t like to play the same thing over and over, except those one that want to win money. (minority of players).

We would still had META build, but it would be possible for players to choose stats/builds to counter META again.

Ellie.5913:

We were losing builds because of amulet/rune removals long before HoT came out. Anyone remember that super fun build called shout bow warrior? I had a blast with it, and it had good team support in it which is how I like to play, never been a fan of glass cannons and never will be….

Please link the balance patches long before HOT that did this.

In season 1, many shoutbow was playing Settler amulet because the sustain on celestial amulet was not good enough (the nerfed of the healing signet did make warrior bad for 2 seasons).

Celestial amulet was still a thing in season 1.

http://dulfy.net/2016/01/15/gw2-upcoming-changes-to-pvp-runessigils-and-amulets/

I didn’t understand why.

Because dd ele, the king of celestial was not working into HoT bunker creep (bunker abilities on squishi bodies for the win).

Nor Cele Engi…. it was either soldier rifle engi or marauder scrapper.

Celestial was not working on shoutbow or any other META build (that where OP for 2 years) anymore. Some druids were using it. Some necro too.

Some bunker mesmer did played with celestial, but other played Soldier or Sentinel. For the first time in Anet history you could play 3 different amulet for 1 META build.

The nerf on Mesmer bunker where enough, removing the amulet wasn’t appropriate.

They didn’t explain why they did this. They got some cheers by fanboyz for doing so, but the balanced work on ele, engi and war on celestial had been done for good.

For me, right after season 1, the big BOSS left Anet or got fired… and the NEW boss is trying to make sPVP his own.

Still… he alienated the third of the player bases that like to play support hybrid build and still do.

Healing power on guardian was great to AOE Dodge Heals your team mate.

Work great with mace, focus and staff. Altruistic Healing staff 4 is something Cleric would enjoy a lot.

It is not worthy of the toughness hit you get, to go healing power in SPVP with the Cleric amulet removal.

That HP stats scale bad since released. For the couple of Cleric Build that work in the past, it’s not worthy to go that line if you don’t abuse dodge heals.

Our great build from Metabattle DH Bunker got HIT hard with Cleric removal.

messiah.1908:

does support build died with the cleric amulet

i have 4 years in pvp and wvw area more in theorycraft

just testing ele (i have less experience with it), support mesmer, bunker guard, and new ventari rev

its basically not possible to build support without toughness any more . and atm there is none toughness amulet with healing power

so just mender ranger will be our new support class in some degree?

was it right to delete cleric amulet if they want to nerf the ele healing abilities? while hurting all other aspect of the class and build diversity?

i have played support mesmer last season till ruby and testes ventari rev but now all support is gone beside ranger and maybe guardian (more bunker than support/healer)

anet i think you had bad decision . nerf ele support abilities skills and utilities not the cleric amulet

Basically bunker support healer is dead

You will either build to be bunker to stomp/rez (take some cleaves to do).

Or

You will be a glassy healbot that will die in team fights a lot.

Healbot will simply not going to cut the next balanced comp.

Bunker support will still be able to take a beating, rez/stomp (to win team fights) and probably cleanses some… but the heals will be missed by everyone.

This means, that the usefulness of support will get lower and people will try to make “self containing” comp without relying on support.

This sort of “comp” would need to cleanses all the kitten themselves.

Meaning… that full conditions builds will eat US alive.

2 Carrion for point holders (reaper + mesmer).
2 Wanderers for supports (warrior + engi).
1 Viper roamer (hint venom thief or mallyx rev) for the roamer.

:)

I really like the timing of the rework on Nightmare runes… it will get to that to many of US.

Please bring back Ministrel amulet. Real bunker with no damage. That is balance. Let the QQ 1v2 for eternity a thing. At least, if you are dumb enough to do that, you should not win on rotations basis.

fishball.7204:

I’ve heard all that MMR is volatile yada yada and I’ve been playing unranked for a while now. Just 1-2 weeks ago I did a fair amount of matches with my friends trying to grind his mesmer title.

I’m literally getting 5 signet warriors and glass staff eles with signet of air. It’s not fun and rage inducing. These guys have trouble finding the exit from home base

Well, I got a staff Ele that is your friend from PZ as random pug. The other team had a Magic Toker Thief.

What was the Staff ele doing? Rotating to backcap to do 1v1 with Toker.

Guess what? Even at High MMR your random are bad, if they don’t really care.

We lost by like 40 pts… those meteor showers on team fights would had been dandies..

Chaith.8256:

3 Nerfs made no sense, but overall did not break the Engineer or affect its role in the game.

First off, it was finally a time where Medic Gyro and Healing Turret were in balance, and now there is only Healing Turret.

Three nerfs to Medic Gyro users and not Healing Turret users -

• Medic Gyro cast time increase from instant to .5s
• Reconstruction field cast time from instant to .5s
• Bunker Down not giving Regeneration

All these changes mean nothing if you run Healing Turret! They might as well not have even done these. Healing Turret and Elixir Gun are already perma Regen, so the Bunker Down nerf only affects Medic Gyro users.

So basically, these nerfs were totally 100% pointless, and where there were different Scrapper build variations before, now there is one.

Kind of a dumb waste of developer resources but the Engineer is largely unaffected besides one less option.

Pointless for the cookie-cutter meta build.

Support cleric gyro was right behind it. (and better than Tempest Ele for rez/stomp, self healing and self cleanses… it was a blast to run with a tempest ele meta and getting top support achievement.)

And the nerfes did make sure you don’t want to play gyro again. (add the hammer nerfs + the gyro traits nerfs)

Anyway, bunker guard reborn is coming back, no need of Scrapper Bunker Guard 2.0.

Chaith.8256:

… Support builds didn’t exist pre-expansion in the meta, and it wasn’t half bad. …

What? You played 2 dd ele comp to get Champion of the World and you affirm that support builds didn’t exist pre-expansion? (dd ele was cleansing you, gave protections/regen and might stack, rezzing with mistform/armor of earth)

As I remember correctly, Settler Shoutbow Warrior was support and working good. DD ele as well. Soldier Rifle Engi did bring CC and some support.

Sorry Chaith, now I am mind blasted. Perhaps, you should had said 2 weeks prior the expac… but even that is flat wrong.

Care to explain your PoV?

Can we get an official answer?

With patch notes, they will use ranked MMR and old MM for the queue.

It will impact your MMR.

For those in MMR HELL, it is your chance to work it. Because both team should be “bad” in low MMR, so you will probably (if you can carry games) go back to average MMR.

After 2 years of shelving my main (5000 games) on spvp character panel (with some dabbling each patch) , I will have the same kind of fun again (but way better since we never got buff that much in the past —> Always got nerf, patches after patches).

All the buff give me the impression that Legend Lilly (AL) – best guardian in the World 2012-2013 support build would be able to impress a lot around. (lol go find yourself, I know the build by Heart, better than Lilly in that regard – i had wish him welcome back on HoT)

I played that with sword/shield and mace/focus on various tourney to great stomp/rez fun. Both main hander bring some “unusual” support… tp cc rez with sword/shield, cc 5 again… switch to focus 5 so I can continue to rez a lot fun!!!!

Let’s see how my signature end, in a couple of weeks.

messiah.1908:

mesmer got buff directly and indirectly by nerfing other sustain abilities

condi mesmer still strong or even stronger
power mesemr little bit more dmg but more cc
support mesmer gone with the wind (no cleric so no toughness)

What about support with Knight Amulet?

Why did you change your thought process about it?

Until they say they reset MMR, yes it will.

Ithilwen.1529:

Most of the changes are as expected. Kudos for fixing the pet names issue at long last. That was one reason I never took ranger seriously.

The one change though: “Matchmaking rules are configured so that teams are intended to have even odds of victory. This matches the behavior of Unranked Arena and Ranked Arena before leagues.”

Thank you ANET, this won’t bring back many players that have bled away in S2 and S3 but it may staunch the wounds some. The voice of reason has been heard at last. I hope this carries into S4.

I am sorry for your lost.

It’s Match-making for “off-season” so you can work your MMR there before the next.

Pips range will matter on season 4, unless they say so.

Galtrix.7369:

1. You’re wrong on so many aspects. I was playing Guild Wars before you were born, and therefore have a lot of experience with builds and how to adapt them to fit the circumstances. I have tried every possible build I could think of, including those of other people, and only a few have worked well enough to kill an elite spec and then die shortly thereafter.

I am sorry, but in Gw2 sPvP players don’t have the “freedom” of build that Guild Wars had.

You are comparing the Rolls Royce of PVP to the LADA of PVP.

PopeUrban.2578:

Anet has not interest in spending money of features that encourage you NOT to spend money.

If you haven’t bought HoT at this point, you are no longer their customer. You are either a former customer, or a trial user with the potential to become a customer.

They can’t simply make elite specs free in PvP only, as then there would be literally no incentive for that eSports community they keep foolishly trying to chase to pay them at all. Their entire eSports setup is a marketing tool, specifically designed to sell more copies of the game. Making it more competitive by spending less money simply undoes that entire business model.

This is a good cheezy mechanic of MMORPG.

But since sPVP is a MOBA type of games with “MMORPG builds” on, it’s one of his downfall.

It would be easier to make sPvP like a MOBA and do PVE/WvW like a MMORPG. Doing this would open options… and would bring more people of each game type to bring abundance of players.

But forget it, MMORPG QA testers got better idea of what MOBA is than dedicated pvp players. And so, the MMORPG mindset is “choking” the MOBA community out there.

Seyiwaji.4082:

Chaith.8256:

The new boon duration amulets, they’re better in theory than in practice. They might make it in as a viable side-grade on certain professions, but will not succeed in shifting the meta

You don’t know what you are talking about. Even tough it doesn’t have toughness, you have 25 might uptime, protection uptime, regeneration uptime.
with leadership set 100% boon duration, try to fight a Chrono or a Druide
It won’t last long until it is removed.

Man, you don’t know what you are talking about. Pro players read the patch notes 1 month before it goes on released and comment on those. They are our “qa test server” crew.

Chaith simply re-said what he said about them, last month.

/sarcasm off

Fay.2357:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Lots of assumptions and words being put in to my mouth here. Thanks guys.

Ah, sorry about that. Let me use your words exactly as written to avoid this issue.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Was this necessary? It was already a top build last season without these very powerful and game changing buffs.

Right, so as you so explicitly stated, you’re complaining that the mesmer build was already strong without these buffs. The problem is that none of the buffs touch anything the strong mesmer build uses, instead helping some of the far weaker unused mesmer builds.

In other words, you’re totally wrong and this complaint has absolutely zero value.

Any questions?

Except that condi mesmer would probably try scepter/torch… Perhaps torch could replace Shield, so mesmer could kill faster than they were able to.

I don’t agree with RANT all classes buff or NERF.

But at least Mesmer got something to work for. Their support side is “buff” a bit and it’s welcomed even if the “support” amulet don’t work much on mesmer.

When META changes, many people play “some new” stuff.

This mean they are bad with it. Even if they have good MMR.

Since they don’t care much about unranked MMR, they do those bad things there.

We need some ESL pro tournament to have the META settled 2 weeks after it start.

This is the BEST time of the YEAR for MAIN that know how to play their class to their fullest.

Sinmir.6504:

Talyn Sneider.1825:

Raithwall.8201:

Sinmir.6504:

I think the Cleric Amulet needed to go, they got rid of Soldier, Soldier made you yourself sustainable but with Cleric people could heal 5 door breakers faster than a trebuchet could damage them. Usually hitting them twice with it is enough, a healer could pretty much negate the trebuchet damage. Magi, well it has vitality instead of toughness and precision instead of power. I can imagine a lot of healers will pay the gold and unlock it. Would like to see it go as well as it has the same healing power as Cleric so could be used to keep enemy NPCs alive pretty much indefinitely. Either that or bring back cleric but nerf the Tempest and Druid healing abilities beyond recognition. Nothing wrong with making them able to heal so that door breakers can survive an extra hit or so from the treb but not much more than that.

If this is about doorbreakers why dont make trebs 1shot them ( or giving them an unremoveable stack – they die at 2 stacks) instead of limiting build variety and purging eles from spvp?

Or God forbid actually balancing Eles so they can´t keep doorbreakers alive for large ammounts of time.

You know actually balance work instead of:

kitten that amulet is too hard to balance….no biggie remove it and let´s keep on rolling

I did suggest that, getting rid of Magi or bringing back Cleric but nerfing the healing ability Druids and Tempests have. Door breakers, I suppose guards as well were the problem, they could keep the guards alive a lot longer than I think they should have been able to. Though that would usually be against the player, not the Trebuchet, unless you are a good shot with the treb.

Anet did removed bunker support build for a game mode that is dead 2 month after released???

Man, bunker support was the archetype that all balance comp for 4 years played in SPVP.

Now we have conditions bruiser or power dps roamer.

We can’t heal and rez anymore… you either rez slowly with knight and eat the CLEAVE.

Or Heal for fast REZ but can’t take the cleave.

The last bunker support will be Druids because of some pet rezzing strat.

Who will win the race, conditions bruisers or power roamer?

JTGuevara.9018:

Well, golly gee. Knight’s Amulet has a major defensive stat! (1200 toughness) Seems like anything with a major defensive stat gets the axe.

Is THAT the next one on the chopping block now? Do people not realize that removing amulets does NOT solve the problem? This is not balance, this is KILLING builds. Let’s call it for what it is.

Since the patch, I played about 10 games today. I see HoT builds are still out of control. The removal of clerics has made the HoT powercreep and spam even WORSE than before. Everyone and everything just melts left and right, dps, bunker, it doesn’t matter.

When will we learn?

I HATE YOU.

Please stop asking to DELETE stuff in TITLE. ANET want to make you happy.

Please, if they removed knight, they should remove berzerker amulet. You can’t removed rock, without removing scissor.

BTW, Rabid is now the defacto bunker build. A lot of QQ will happen. Bunker build with some condies for sustain dps (hit mesmer, warrior) will got amulet DELETED from the game.

Why? If you know that game for 4 years you know that Rabid > Knight because knights is never used in meta while rabid got a lot of it.

Mr Godlike.6098:

Ele pvp is dead.

Without any changes to surviablity, nerfs and removal of cleric amulet that was MUST for staying alive as pvp elementalist -> simply put class is dead.

And also NO balance changes to composite for changes.

Why we are writing here anything an try to give some balance/change ideas for devs…it’s depressing waste of time….

Don’t despair.

I got nerf on all those META for support bunker:

1- Bunker Guard
2- dd ele
3- Shoutbow warrior
4- Mesmer bunker
5- Tempest shouts ele

We will still find a viable meta build to support the team fights. But now, all build that can’t heal/cleanses themselves would be unviable.

Power Revenant / thieves would be the biggest losers in team fight (or all power dps builds) because they rely on their bunker support to keep them alive.

It become harder now. All viable support bunker amulet got DELETED.

So, time to work your own conditions builds.

“So even though the dps is similar, there is less passive AND active mitigation for an ele, so why even consider it over guard?”

You got me backward.

“why would you ever play a glass ele over a thief, mesmer, or revenant?”

Don’t forget meditation dps guardian. Their counter META build is now Deleted.

Reaper Alim.4176:

Matchmaking rules are configured so that teams are intended to have even odds of victory. This matches the behavior of Unranked Arena and Ranked Arena before leagues.

Me and many others will “LOVE YOU LONG TIME” if this is true ANet!

They talked about the off-season MM. Since you can’t progress in divisions, only match-making rating will count for games… (i guess)

I would like some “official” in “season” stance about MM.

Now with Cleric amulet, you sure bet ROCK (bunker support) is gone.

So, let’s see who is stronger, Power or Condi?

BlackBeard.2873:

Ubik.8315:

Ele will do tons of damage but get deleted faster than even thieves. Not sure it’s viable yet, but we’ll see.

Yea, without the avoidance mechanics of thief, damage that requires a larger windup, and less mobility, why would you ever play a glass ele over a thief, mesmer, or revenant?

Since heals from Ele are not a thing anymore, you could had DPS AOE burst Meditations guard a new thing.

Evan Lesh.3295:

This has not been forgotten.

Now we are FREE!

Thank you!

Chrono Torch will get to burn us.
Warrior mace zerk skill will spam us.

We will all QQ that no-one want to AOE condi cleanses us.

We need a Paladin amulet, like:

Power
Healing Power
Thougness
Vitality

It will take so much times, that “comp” will get 5 condi users:

Mesmer, Warrior, Reaper, Engi Condi, Revenant Condi.

The faster team to condi burst win.

Messiah Knight build would be probably the next support meta build.

:)

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW8encfClqhFoBeoBUrhlejyMAugM6cDKhQouUX1XF-TJxGABMVGQ69HA4iAk7TAAA
(this was the build, after I suggest Cleric + Water sigils)

Switch Cleric for Knight. Enjoy having utilities that don’t scale with healing power much!! (yeah! it’s now a great thing!!)

Now, this is original build:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Bunkermes-comeback/first#post6164769

That will make your team fight easier on rez and stomp.

JediSange.1645:

I’m surprised at your response. It’s well thought out and less emotionally charged than expected. I respect your view of this and am anxious to see how it plays out. I’ve been playing since launch and I do recall the times you’re speaking of (about Ele’s being gone from PvP). I hope you’re wrong and Eles can find a way into the meta.

Nobodies know you around, are you a forum “chill”?

You speak about pvp much too well for a noob.

“From something that should only be used as a last resort, it has become a quick fix for any problem, from lack of end game content to badly designed player versus player. Of course, I am also not so naïve to think that in massively multiplayer online games everything is perfectly balanced and everyone has a fair chance against each other. In games that revolve around team work no one needs to be a one man army, but if someone is really the underdog some buffs are in order. It is better to improve some class than weaken or completely destroy aspects of another.”

Who is gonna heals and cleanses for you guyz?

Why going healing power (sage or mender) to do that if it’s simply easier to do Marauder or Wanderer?

Cleave got BUFF. No Sage could rez that cleaved.

So… does that mean we are stuck into a condi meta for all time?