Guild Wars 2

I figured that full zerk might be the way to go, I just didn’t want to waste money if there was another option really.

For the mobility, I chose norn for the racial elite to help with that, and on my thief I’m used to using the camera trick to withdraw forwards so S/D isn’t much of a problem in that respect. I’ll try greatsword out though, you make good points ^^

I was thinking more for WvW than sPvP tbh, although I’m not sure if I’ll find read the wind to be all that helpful yet so I might use the signet traits instead. I’m just glad for some active condi cleanse…

Thanks for the tips, much appreciated ^^

Howdy

I’m looking to make a long range longbow build on my new ranger, and was looking for a little advice for the gear.

I main a thief, so I know how quickly full glass rangers can go down if caught out. So what I’m basically asking is what is the minimum amount of defence I should aim for, whilst still maintaining as much DPS as possible.

I’m thinking using 6/0/2/6/0 for traits, so I can take advantage of the new grandmasters in both trees, and S/D as my off set for the dodges/mobility/poison. I know that longbow power builds aren’t the strongest option, but as long as I’m vaguely viable I’ll be happy.

Any advice would be much appreciated, thanks in advance ^^

Maugetarr.6823:

Edit: Really filters? GxLxAxSxS-SxHxAxTxTxExR

This made me laugh, thank you for that ^^

But yeah, every class is beginning to feel like you have to play the meta builds to get anywhere these days, although I don’t think the drop in effectiveness for non meta builds is quite as pronounced on other classes as it is on thief. That may just be because I’m more familiar with the thief meta than with other classes though shrugs.

I have a couple of alts that do completely different things to my thief, keeps things interesting. Might be worth a try ^^

Partially for turning, but a treb/cata with wheels will actually fire further than one that’s fixed, due to less kinetic energy being wasted. So if anything, they have wheels because it’s accurate ^^

I just swapped to Air & Fire sigils and the added burst is really very nice. Other than that, I’m still playing the 5/0/0/3/6 Lyssa S/D build I had post patch, not much else has changed.

Side note: Improvisation is a funny trait, I had it refresh shadow refuge 3 times in a row earlier today ^^

A few guildies and I have been discussing the state of defence in WvW over the last few weeks, the lack of incentive, etc. It also seemed silly to us that a small group could cap everything in the early hours and maintain control of an entire map with a handful of players.

So, what if the objectives in WvW had a timer on them, and if a player from the controlling faction doesn’t enter the capture ring for that duration, the objective becomes neutral?

The idea would be that a server would have to have a presence in a section of a map to maintain control of it. This would mean PPT would be proportional to the server’s actual map coverage at a particular time, instead of how many people they have in the early hours, for instance. This would provide a natural limit to the amount of points that can be gained from a blitzkrieg/karma train approach to the game, since objectives would actually have to be manned (more or less) to maintain control of them.

The timer could be linked to the PPT tick, or there could be a varying timer depending on where the objective is. For example, the blue fort in EB could be held for 45 mins without people going in, but a tower in the red section of the map could only be held for 15 mins by blue. I’m not sure what would work better myself, although I’m leaning towards the PPT tick timer.

Obviously the idea has problems atm, since as I’ve stated it there’s nothing stopping people just resetting the timer when they grab supply. But given a bit more development, what would people think of it?

Bazzoong.7145:

Generally SA is associated with shadow’s rejuvination and thieves coming back from stealth wih full health all the time or reseting the fight if pressured, people do not like that because frankly they expect their opponents to stand there and take their hits and die after one succesful combo, you can not blame them for that the game educated them that way (just start leveling a warrior and you will know what I mean).

Very true. It always makes me think that people just don’t understand the class when you hear that sort of complaint, since the reason the thief comes back at full health is usually because they stealth and then use their heal skill before they reappear. So are people really upset with the stealth, or the fact that we have a heal skill and know when to use it… o.O

Faux.1937:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Or you could now get an Elementalist and laugh at the thief desperately trying to crit you.

Yeah… not being able to be crit is the biggest and most powerestistesestttssss ever for pvp and wvw.

Will make bunk eles really good against power/crit builds.

Depends whether you get the drop on them, since you have to be in earth attunement to get that immunity. A lot of ele’s in WvW run around in air for the movement speed buffs/skills making them gankable, and not changing attunement in a tPvP group fight for fear of the thief wandering around is almost a nerf in itself.

It’s def gonna be a problem 1v1 if you’re using dagger, but they can’t heal in earth so they’ll have to switch eventually, giving you 9 (ish) seconds to crit them. Time your basilisk burst when they switch out of earth and it should be ok ^^

Edit: But yeah, people are gonna hate us for a while, but it’s good for things to be shaken up given how predictable most thieves seem to be. I just wish the new acro grandmaster trait was a little more…. useful. Can’t see a reason to replace assassin’s reward atm.

Travlane.5948:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Travlane.5948:

McFribble.2349:

godz raiden.2631:

When I run with my guild I blast into fields for stealth all the time. With pugs… well they just run out of range or kitten around and attack something anyway. I mean some ppl don’t even know how shadow refuge works still…

This. No point in trying to do it when all it takes is one chuckle kitten to walk out of the field 2 seconds before it finishes, and ruins the whole thing. At that point, it would have been just faster to kill the mobs, get some $$$, and move on instead of having a repair bill to attend to.

sad but true. bc when they drop stealth the aoe kills you all. arah for instance.

Kinda funny reading this, it’s a nice change to the usual ‘omfg stealth = invuln’ post ^^
Not that I disagree with what you said or anything, just made me chuckle.

when i said drop i meant break stealth :P

Ah, my mistake ^^

Travlane.5948:

McFribble.2349:

godz raiden.2631:

When I run with my guild I blast into fields for stealth all the time. With pugs… well they just run out of range or kitten around and attack something anyway. I mean some ppl don’t even know how shadow refuge works still…

This. No point in trying to do it when all it takes is one chuckle kitten to walk out of the field 2 seconds before it finishes, and ruins the whole thing. At that point, it would have been just faster to kill the mobs, get some $$$, and move on instead of having a repair bill to attend to.

sad but true. bc when they drop stealth the aoe kills you all. arah for instance.

Kinda funny reading this, it’s a nice change to the usual ‘omfg stealth = invuln’ post ^^
Not that I disagree with what you said or anything, just made me chuckle.

If you find 25/30/0/0/15 too glassy, have a go with something like 0/30/0/15/25. You miss the extra heal and power from DA but you’ll get a truly stupid number of dodges, it’s pretty beast with a shortbow

Firstly, thieves don’t get any more stealth in WvW than they do in PvE, the skills are exactly the same in both places. They simply use what stealth they have more often, since trying to outsmart an AI with stealth is a little pointless.

Secondly, ranger’s number 2 (I assume you mean longbow since you haven’t actually specified) already tracks a thief in stealth, provided the attack was initiated before they entered stealth. You’re still hitting them, you just don’t see the little damage counters pop up.

Thirdly, if there’s 3 of them and one of you, you’re probably going to die. If the one beats the three, odds are it’s not the class that’s at fault.

Rangers desperately need some love, that much is very true. I hope the coming redesign really makes rangers something to worry about. If you’re going to call for nerfs to another class though, at least make sure your reasoning is correct.

Edit: If you’re a troll, then I really need to get better at spotting this e-sarcasm thing :P

Soooo, the topic pretty much sums it up.

A lot of the big WvW guilds from my server left recently, and many of the smaller WvW guilds seem to be MIA as well. I’m looking for a server with a dedicated group of WvW guilds that come in no matter the matchup. A nice community would also be appreciated

I’m also bored of largely having nothing to attack except 30+ man groups by myself at off peak times. I don’t mind if it’s not many people, it being off peak and all, just something comparable to the other servers in the matchup would be nice.

The other main point is that I do play on a laptop (late 2011 Macbook Pro), so input from people with similar circumstances would be greatly appreciated. Last thing I want is an awesome server that plays as a slide show.

I’ve heard good things about Aurora Glade, just thought it would be wise to post on here before committing so much gold to a transfer. Thanks for any/all feedback

NinjaEd.3946:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Kadin.2356:

Schizophasia.6781:

LoneWolfie.1852:

Agreed that some of the steal skills are really kitten awful, worst of the lot is the Engineer’s.

Throw Gunk isn’t all that bad, you can leap through it for some chaos armor.

Yea but sometimes you just want to steal instead of throwing down a big “please give me revealed” field. Might be simpler just to change the code to be like poison field so that it doesn’t count as damage.

Same problem with the warrior stolen ability. Sometimes I just want to steal and not spin in place for 5 seconds without being able to dodge.

I spec 30 in trickery (who doesn’t these days?)

Not everyone spec’s into trickery. Its A build, not THE build.

Definitely, it just feels to me like 30 trickery is becoming really popular recently, I was clumsily trying to comment on that :P

I find the steal traits so useful that I now feel like something is missing when I’m not running 30 trickery. You could probably use that as an argument to buff untraited steal tbh.

Kadin.2356:

Schizophasia.6781:

LoneWolfie.1852:

Agreed that some of the steal skills are really kitten awful, worst of the lot is the Engineer’s.

Throw Gunk isn’t all that bad, you can leap through it for some chaos armor.

Yea but sometimes you just want to steal instead of throwing down a big “please give me revealed” field. Might be simpler just to change the code to be like poison field so that it doesn’t count as damage.

Same problem with the warrior stolen ability. Sometimes I just want to steal and not spin in place for 5 seconds without being able to dodge.

They changed that a couple of patches ago btw. You can actually dodge during whirling axes without breaking the animation, so unlike daggerstorm, you can dodge disables like bull’s charge and continue to apply pressure. A bit off topic, but I though it was worth mentioning.

On topic: I like the idea of an extra button, but I honestly don’t think we need it. I spec 30 in trickery (who doesn’t these days?) and most of the stolen items are useful enough that I’ll be using them within 20 secs regardless. It would be nice for steal to be more useful without heavy trait investment, although I wouldn’t want to be the one trying to balance that.

I’ve been running pretty much the same build for a couple of weeks now, it’s a lot of fun. It takes people by surprise when you don’t follow the same attack pattern almost every thief in WvW does, and the mobility you get is just insane. I think I like my shortbow too much to do the whole dual S/D thing though, with assassin’s reward and some peach pies you can kite for hours xD

The damage did worry me for a while, but I found that with this build you can bait out most opponent’s dodges and stunbreaks then daze them into oblivion. I liked hydromancy sigils for the added control, when the sigil patch comes out you might like them with the energy sigils too I have less crit damage and more toughness than you though, so that might be why I find bunker builds hard to kill sometimes. I might rejigger some things…

I like the fall damage trait in acro too, with the number of teleports you get with sword you can really annoy people if you jump off a wall, wait until people follow you then just port back onto it ^^ But yeah, I’m glad to see this build being run by others, it’s been a breath of fresh air for me after months of 0/30/30/10/0

Dahkeus.8243:

Cynic.9327:

Hello all, let me start by saying I’m Rod and I’ve played guild wars 2 for a good amount of time now ( lvl 80 warrior, mesmer and 70 guardian ) and now feel like making a thief for several reasons.

So after abit of messing around with the build maker website I came up with this http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlUmiO3cy4E+5Ey2DfqCJKuHGlT1UeF+KA-jQyAYOBRiCAJCiKAmILiGbxtIasqFMVJRUt7oIa1RBERA-e

It uses the dagger/dagger and shortbow combo which I seem to like most out of all the weapons available for a thief, and is focused on staying in stealth as long as possible, true assassin style-ish xD.

I was just wondering if this would be a viable build, I know it’s not the toughest but I have made my mesmer full zerker aswell and I did absolutely fine on her, infact I never seem to really die on her unless I don’t pay attention and a zerg sneaks up from behind me and even then I sometimes escape. So having said that I don’t mind and even prefer the more glassy cannon builds like the one above I came up with, just need to know if it’s viable or not.

One thing that’s bothering me is the lack of Shadow Refuge, but I don’t want to give up any of the 3 utilities or any of my runes to try and replace the 25% movement signet. Any advice ?

Last offtopic question. Which armor / weapon skins would look best on a human rogue ? I got the holographic wings to go with her ( I LOVE them ), but need some cheap ( if possible ) skins to go with her armor and daggers. Armor for me would be nescessary because the crafted emblazoned armor looks like ******* xD.

Thanks for the replies in advance,

-Rod.

1) Change V to VI to blind on stealth. Since the last initiative changes, you should be fine without ini on stealth. Also, blind on stealth not only makes a big difference for survival, but it allows you to land stomps reliably.

2) Be aware that in sPvP, one of your biggest disadvantages is that this build relies heavily on stealth, which doesn’t contest points.

I completely misread the traits in the build lol. Yes, take blind on stealth and condi clean on stealth. What he said :P

It would certainly be viable, you’ll struggle against more than one opponent due to the lack of toughness and stealth from utilities but if you’re careful it’ll work. A couple of suggestions:

*You don’t actually need the shadow arts V trait since the december patch increased the overall ini regen rate. You can comfortably swap that for shadow arts 4 for some much needed condi cleanse. This will make easier to fight condi classes, mesmers with conditions on clone death in particular.
*If you’re going for an instagib sort of build, you could take trickery V for the fury on steal, and then take executioner instead of hidden killer in critical stikes. Your initial steal > CnD with assassin signet proc for might is quite likely to take light & medium armor classes below 50% health anyway, so you’ll have 74% crit chance instead of 100% on your backstab, but now it’s on steroids. Depends whether the general meta for your server is zerker or bunker.
*The main thing I’d consider is that thief is a melee class, and you only have 2 gap closers, one of which is also your main stun break/condi cleanse. This is problematic, since your main stealth is melee range. If I were you, I’d either take infiltrator’s signet for another gap closer, or more stealth on your utilities for when something tries to kite you. That’s my personal preference though, take that how you like

This is what I normally run with D/D:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAV4YlYmiO3eS+E+5Ey2jeqCJKuHOVS1UdFiKA-jEDBYfAYLRmgAgIAiKAOzMrJPIZPCiVRFRjVXDT5SQVFLxyAUuFA-w

I tend to build more defensively than most, since bunkers are pretty popular with the servers I tend to get matched against, and since I only seem to find groups of enemies these days. It depends what you consider more important: bursting down a single enemy silly quick and then GTFO, or just trolling a group until you find a squishie.

TLDR: any variant of x/30/30/x/x will do fine, take SA IV instead of V to laugh at PU mesmers, adjust gear depending on your opponent’s proclivity for bunkering. Own all the faces.

I’ve been running a similar build in WvW for a couple of weeks now, and it’s certainly a lot of fun. I find the build doesn’t work as well in sPvP due to low damage and the confined spaces on point, so what follows is from a WvW perspective.

I went for 10/0/0/30/30 (individual trait choices pretty much the same as yours) with S/D & Shortbow, because the AoE bleed, poison and general mobility from the shortbow goes really well with the high vigor uptime. I tried using P/D but the lack of AoE made it less useful in group play, since I can get 10 AoE stacks of bleeding shotgunning clusterbomb whilst dealing good damage. I also took assassin’s reward as the acro grandmaster, as with peach pies as your food you get a good amount of sustain when kiting with SB.

My armor is a mix of soldiers and zerk, my trinkets are zerk with cavalier rings, and I use zerk weapons. For utilities: in group play I use withdraw, shadowstep, shadow refuge, roll for initiative and daggerstorm, for solo I use shadow trap instead of refuge and basilisk for more condi clean.

I play with a small group of guildies a lot, and they focus on AoE damage (ele, engi etc) so I tend to focus on killing the squishy zerker things trying to kill us, or just disabling a tanky target while my group focuses it. Bunkers can be a problem, depending on whether they rely on boons or not and whether they actually know how to dodge. I’ve found that most bunkers simply don’t have the mobility to keep up with you though, so you can just kite them while killing something else. If it’s a 1v1, there’s no reason to stay if you can’t kill them.

Hydromancy sigils are a great choice for this sort of build, because they can AoE crit for around 2k even with my (relatively) low crit damage – kite with bow, cast basilisk, steal for mug, swap to sword for hydromancy, CnD, sneak attack for daze can easily do 7-8k damage whilst keeping the enemy locked down. The chill when combined with cripple from dancing dagger also helps take advantage of your mobility, should you need to ‘relocate’.

Sure, you won’t be bursting like D/D can, but even with 60% crit damage my clusterbomb, larcenous strike and CnD will crit for 3-4k on most targets. It’s nice to see people using more unusual builds, stick with it

Valentin.2073:

dude, i just killed a condi/bunker engi on a squishy zerker ranger on that video, not a facerolling spirit ranger. show me a video of you pulling of a same stunt. lol. you guys are pathetic. u will just throw random insults.

Maybe if you brought an argument that is RELEVANT TO WVW instead of prattling on about a completely different game style, I wouldn’t have so much to laugh at you for.

Valentin.2073:

stop talking trash. seriously. i play both spirit ranger and zerker ranger in tpvp. do you even know that a zerker ranger is also underpowered in tpvp?

Totally irrelevant to a discussion about stealth spam in WvW.

it takes guts and skills to play that build effectively. you have no knowledge about tpvp at all. meta-builds in tpvp are hambow/condi warriors, spirit ranger, bunker guardian, condi/minion master necro and bunker engi. why don’t you try to play your class in tpvp and see how fast you’d get pawned there.

I do play my thief in PvP, and enjoy a good amount of success. I haven’t commented on PvP because you’re trying to justify a nerf that would only affect WvW significantly, whilst only using anecdotal ‘evidence’ from PvP to back it up. Try to stay on topic OP.

the reason you play thief only in “wvw” is because you know it’s overpowered there.

I haven’t played D/P in WvW since I learned to use D/D, and I don’t use stealth at all these days. Try again.

people in tpvp don’t even care about thieves. thieves are almost useless in tpvp.

I’m well aware of the state of thieves in PvP, but that is totally irrelevant to a discussion about stealth spam in WvW.

people who succeed as thieves in tpvp are really good and know how to play their class really well while people who play thief in wvw are braindead players who continue to abuse stealth and call themselves skillful. pfff…

See, this is the part I object to. You call us brainless, then post a video showing zero skill on your part and call it skilled. When called out, you get all defensive. Fact is, the vast majority of rangers are no skill scrubs like you and you can’t even acknowledge that. Sad really.

me having played tpvp in a long time helped me a lot in killing thieves in wvw 1v1. seriously, you arent one of those professions that i would avoid facing 1v1.

With the way you played in that video, I would.

you cant nuke me with conditions

Yes I can. I just choose not to because it feels cheap. A lot like zerker ranger, actually.

and i can use knockback to avoid your heartseeker spams. i can also dps you to death in seconds before you can react.

I can teleport further than you can shoot. It’s fun to make pointless statements.

so dont go tell me l2p because i dont have any problem dealing with your class. what i’m asking here is a nerf to you stealth spamming ability because it is broken and should not exist in this game. get over yourself.

You’re the one defending a broken argument for a nerf affecting WvW thieves’ survivability with anecdotes on how good you are in PvP. Get over yourself.

Stealth in WvW only really annoys people who feel entitled to the lootbag. Maybe if you stop seeing certain classes as a guaranteed kill, you’d stop getting annoyed when thieves flip you off.

Valentin.2073:

i didnt get offended because you are talking nonsense. btw, may i ask whats the percentage of good thieves in wvw? maybe 20% or less. i know some good thieves and they are all my tpvp buddies. these thieves are really good and they are really useful in ranked matches. i’m not sure if it’s the same thing for these rude wvw thieves on this post.

You do a remarkable job of not actually addressing any of the things I said in my previous post. Well done sir :/

You attempt to discredit my argument by asking how many thieves in WvW are good, and then state you know good thieves and that this validates your argument. Fine, let’s run with this train of thought:

“I know one good ranger, he does not play zerker. The majority of rangers that I meet play zerker, and I kill them easily because they are usually terrible players. Thus, you are a bad ranger because you play zerker.” Both this and your argument suffer from faulty logic.

The alternative, however, is that you are a PvP player who has no concept of how WvW builds function. PvP and WvW are not the same, and demand different things of the players and their builds.

Valentin.2073:

it’s your ability to spam stealth that makes you a braindead poor excuse of a class. mesmers dont even get to spam that much stealth and it needs timing to play that class well. while a thief can just do black powder+ hs, shadow step, backstab, black powder + hs again, rinse and repeat. pretty much braindead to me.

Again, using your logic: “It’s the ranger’s ability to hide behind an AI controlled bear whilst they only spam 1 on their bow that makes you a braindead poor excuse of a class.”

One build does not define a class. Stop with the sweeping generalisations already.

Valentin.2073:

AR and Kaineng thieves must be really bad because i usually just stomp them to shame with my glass cannon ranger 1v1. i wonder how does it feel for a thief to get stomped by a zerker ranger in wvw. lol.

Most thieves are terrible. As are most rangers. As are most warriors. As are most (insert profession here). What’s your point exactly?

Valentin.2073:

most of the people that i duel would usually come back to fight me again and get stomped again. i once beat an ele from AR 5x in a row and a thief from AR 3x in a row. lol. it’s really funny and everybody knows that a zerker ranger might be the most underpowered build/class in wvw.

This paragraph has no relevance to the argument you’re trying to make. I kill rangers like you on a daily basis, but that’s also irrelevant to a discussion about stealth.

Zerker ranger has it’s place in WvW. That place is in the back of a group, focusing squishy targets, laying down AoE cripple, and providing water fields for group healing. If you’re not in a group, you’re in a tower. If you’re in a 1v1 with a thief, a class designed to kill things like you, you’re out of position and deserve to be killed.

Valentin.2073:

and i dont think most people here even know how to play a ranger. signet of stone when traited makes a ranger invincible to raw damage and quickening zephyr can boost the shortbow’s auto-attack that can melt more than a half of a bunker type’s hp in just a couple of seconds. such skills have long cooldown but really effective in duelling. i’ve beaten engi’s, guardians, eles and thieves using this build at pvp duelling arenas and these people spend most of their time playing gw2 by dueling. if i wantted i could play a spirit ranger in wvw and beat such thieves in wvw with less effort but i dont like that. i want to fight fair and even.

Unfortunately for you, this simply does not help because I do not HAVE to engage you in WvW. I move faster than you because I build for mobility and you use 2 bows. There’s nothing stopping me from just walking off and leaving you be. Or from using my mobility to bait out your cooldowns, then killing you when you’re defenseless. Most importantly, however, this is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to a discussion of stealth in WvW.

Before you just dismiss me as talking nonsense again, let’s talk experience here. I have 1800 hours experience on thief, primarily playing WvW. You play zerker ranger in PvP, with little experience of WvW. If you disagree with me, fine, but if you want to convince me that I’m wrong then try bringing an actual argument next time.

Sanduskel.1850:

Jim Hunter.6821:

How is it being abused? Stealth is what the thief is built around. It is their best source of damage, damage mitigation, healing, condition removal, etc.

This whole thread would be like if thieves were complaining that rangers used pets. Instead of calling for nerfs to other classes why don’t you try to get yours buffed so it is viable for something other than roaming. Maybe ask to get the broken pet ai fixed, or at least give you better control over them. Hell GW1 gave you better pet control.

Anet used that term, abused. They referenced the ability to remain in stealth while remaining in combat. NO OTHER PVP GAME does stealth this way and EVERY OTHER GAME HAS HARD COUNTERS to stealth. These two choices, made just to say we are different, make stealth laughably opd in this game. Some of us thieves don’t rely on this perma crutch and do just fine, so your first point is inaccurate.

Anet used that term SPECIFICALLY about D/P thieves who could maintain stealth indefinitely just from weapon skills by using a single trait. That trait has been fixed. Gaining stealth whilst in combat was NEVER a problem, in fact they said they had no problem with thieves chaining utilities to maintain stealth. Please quote things correctly & in context, if you’re going to quote.

Sigh….

Valentin.2073:

why not? i can solo camps using my ranger. i’m playing a zerker ranger because i have the guts to do so. you dont go play what everyone else plays and tell yourself you’re good. it just makes you another scrub.

Soloing a camp is no measure of skill in WvW, any class can do it with little effort if built correctly. As for playing what everyone else plays, keep reading.

Valentin.2073:

i’ve played my class in spvp/tpvp long enough to get it effective in wvw. seriously, i treat a thief as i treat an ele. just another loot bag i can take for free. the percentage of me winning against a thief 1v1 in wvw is like 90% wins. what i dont like about them is that when they are outnumbered they can easily disengage through spamming an insane number of stealths.

From what I can see of your build in the video, you have 30 in marksmanship, and likely 30 in skirmishing. With dual bows, you have no mobility and no real counter to a thief that gets up in your grill. You win because you engage at distance, probably sniping someone as he fights someone else, using the fact you have the highest 1500 range dps in the game.

Having watched your video, It’s actually laughable being called no skill from someone who plays like that. Bad/glassy thieves might die, but a well played thief will take you apart.

Valentin.2073:

you people should not treat rangers like they are really that bad. i once killed 2 thieves 1 mesmer with the help of a single ranger ally. you guys have been fighting a lot of bad rangers too much.

The reason that people say rangers are bad is because 90% of them run your build, and in WvW that basically makes them cannon fodder. They come fresh from PvE and PvP, expecting things to just stay at distance whilst you kill them. Unfortunately it’s you that’s playing what everyone else does, making yourself the proverbial scrub.

I don’t want to be harsh, but there’s really no other way of saying it.

Tachii.3506:

Idk the specific mechanics, but maybe it was blocked/evaded?

I tested this on a rabbit, so unlikely :P

I’ve noticed this, but since it was mostly in WvW in the middle of big fights I just thought it was a mistake on my part.

I just tested it for myself, max range on steal, no red bar, just went on cooldown.

Edit: I don’t use long reach either, so that’s with the default range.

Burnfall.9573:

Thief Class

So you want to have Unlimitedly Power, Insufficient Privilege to Control everything?

So you want law defying criminals to be free to break the laws as they please?

So you want rule defying criminals to be free to break the rules as they please?

So you want criminals to commit Injustice and to be Justified for it?

So you want criminals to commit massacre, slaughter, butcher, and exterminate against the innocent?

So you want to do crazy damage against the helpless, less capable, the vulnerable?

So this is your mission, purpose and destiny for the world of guild wars 2, am i correct Thief Class?

All along, this was your plan and final draft for the world of guild wars 2, am i correct Thief Class?

L2P.

Awesome, thanks for the tips guys

Thanks for all the replies, glad to know it’s not me just missing something obvious lol :P

@ Bern: Thanks for the pointers & build links

I have a P/D condi build too, I’ve used carrion & dire so far but I think my armor is too low (~2500), I’ll give the full dire set a go. Condi’s just not as fun as direct damage imo, but if it’s effective shrugs
I feel like basilisk is too easily negated when I use it, I’ll give it another go. I like the fall damage trait because it means I can take advantage of terrain in a way that other classes can’t, but you’re right, acro III is a stronger trait. The crit III & signet tips do make a lot of sense too, thanks

@Reikou: You’re right about the stolen ability, but with all the blocks is a pain to land lol. Like I say, I might just need better timing :/

I do just avoid them generally speaking, using shadowstep to repeatedly port onto walls they have to run around is pretty fun, they get bored after a while :P it’s the usual thing though, you don’t learn how to deal with anything by simply avoiding it :/

@hihey: TEO! I remember you guys from Whiteside lol

Good advice that. I guess I need to get better at keeping track of when abilities are on cooldown. That’s always been kinda hard for me, since I have to run on minimum character detail in WvW just to make sure I have the fps to land a CnD. Everything looks like the basic attack, at least as far as character animations go anyway :/

I’ve been trying to use my shortbow more recently, it’s a surprisingly effective weapon that I tend to forget about. I remember autoattacking a zerker engi to death using it, because he refused to leave his turrets and apparently didn’t know how to deal with anything not in turret range.

Would S/D have better luck do you think? I haven’t played much with the set, so I can’t really judge.

Hi all

I’ve been running the same build for WvW for some time now with reasonable success, but with the changes to DPS Guardian I’ve found them harder to deal with recently. I’m thinking about the Greatsword & Sword/Focus Mediation build in particular.

I’m just wondering how the community deals with them? I normally just walk away now, since against a competent opponent the outcome is usually either a stalemate or a loss because they simply out-heal me, blocking all the way.

This is my build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlYmiO3eS+E+5Ey2jeqCJKuHOVS1UdFiKA-j0CBYfQ4LBkgAisAkKAI5RZN7RQsMsIas6aYKXCRqYpWGA9JA-w

Pretty standard build, hence why I think it could use a little improvements. I do build more defensively than most, this may be a part of the problem. I usually have full guard defense & guard leech stacks when roaming, and I have an ascended zerk pistol that I swap in for specific fights.

It might just be that I need to time my burst better, but it can’t hurt to ask :P

Karolis.4261:

Stealth steal build? what are u talking about? Oh and I know you come here 30 min after asking for thief damage nerfs in ele forums
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/10K-backstab/first#post3521290
You claim that there is no skill needed to play thief with constant 5 k backstabs (lol) and 30 min later you qq about getting facerolled by shatter mesmer on you thief.

Lol, I guess it’s a L2P issue then :P

Well, a few questions first off:

1) What attack at you using to hit for 2k? Backstab, auto attack, etc.
2) What’s your trait setup? You obviously spec into trickery for the steal range, but how about the rest?
3) What’s your gear spec/amulet?

Also bear in mind that depending on whether you’re in PvP or WvW, a backstab is expected to do different amounts.

In WvW my backstab typically does 6-10k depending on the target’s armor (I run a sustain burst build like Yishis, you can google his vids for context), in PvP it’s normally around 5-6k (25/30/0/15/0 zerk). My damage is normally pretty mediocre in comparison to Yski Unseenleaf (also google his vids, they craaaazy :P ), but I like being able to eat a burst if I mess up and not instantly lose.

But yeah, if you want to deal direct damage as a thief, you pretty much need investment in critical strikes. Post your build, see if we can’t help

I say give the thief a quarterstaff. B*!$& slapped with a broomstick! xD

But anyways… They said in the livestream that you still can’t stack sigils of force etc. on the same set, but you will probably be able to use night & force at the same time instead. Overall it’s a good thing for the game imho, whether it will affect balance depends how they’ve rescaled the sigils I think.

I’m looking forward to having bloodlust & fire on my shortbow, it’ll be nice not to have to choose.

People don’t like fighting classes that stealth because they don’t think it’s fighting fair, I get that. I also get that people don’t enjoy hunting an enemy that’s bursting you down one by one, and disappearing as soon as you see him. Honestly, I get that.

The thing to remember here is that you’re fighting a rogue. Expecting a rogue to fight fair is like expecting a dog to learn to play the mandolin. Ain’t gonna happen.

That said, I don’t especially enjoy being chased from one end of the borders to the other AND BACK AGAIN by 3+ warriors who see my thief as a lootbag-on-legs (lol). I also don’t enjoy being stun-locked, and being forced to watch my character die whilst the other player removes my ability to fight.

If this is what passes for Queensbury rules in this game, you can bet your *$! that I’ll backstab them and dance around laughing in stealth, fear them off cliffs as they try to chase me, and just generally be annoying. And I’ll enjoy it too.

Do know what’s happening when you are blindfolded?
[/quote]

Do you genuinely play the game blindfolded? o.O

Even rolling with this daft analogy, you know what’s happening up until the moment you are ‘blindfolded’, and based on that you can make a good guess at what happens in the few seconds afterwards. You see a thief stealth on a downed opponent, you can probably guess what he’s doing and respond appropriately.

Stealth =/= invincibility.

Spicyhash.7605:

Yes please. Other classes that have attacks that do high damage (5k+) are on 10-20 second cool downs. Final thrust, hundred blades (6 seconds? dafeq), ranger LB channel attack, ele fire grab, and so on. This isn’t the case for thieves. Initiative does act as a pseudo-cooldown, but it’s much shorter, especially given all of the traits that boost initiative regen (opportunist, signet use, infusion of shadow, patience, quick pockets, quick recovery, klepto, preparedness, etc..). with the +3 initiative trait, you can use heartseeker 5 times in a row and then one or two seconds later you can use it again, before needing to rebuild initiative. This is ridiculous. Even more so that HS damage actually increases the lower the target is (the more you use it).

There are skills that can be buffed if initiative was removed (death blossom, dancing dagger (even tho it was nerfed), and some others.. really all pistol skills besides unload). Thief players are just so used to being able to spam abilities that it is literally inconceivable that they would ever remove initiative.

Perma stealth isn’t even the problem, it’s the fact that you can still deal ridiculous damage (at LEAST 8k in your usual c+d bs combo) reliably. Being able to do this more than once in at least 10 seconds isn’t okay. Initiative regen needs to be chopped in half or by 75% and the power of most skills buffed, otherwise it needs to go.

This isn’t a fair analysis, for a few reasons.

1) You haven’t factored in the revealed mechanic. In WvW, a backstab thief can chain a CnD->backstab every 4 seconds, and that’s assuming you sit there and let him do it. Taking into account moving targets, the need to regen health/initiative before the next attack, dodging CC, CnD missing etc., the time between bursts rises with each action. It’s not like you can spam that combo without thought, and if you do so you’ll likely get killed.

2) You haven’t looked at the downsides of initiative. If, for example, a warrior uses all his cool downs on greatsword, he can swap weapon and have a fresh set of skills ready. If a thief uses all his initiative before he swaps weapon, he can’t do anything other than auto attack until his initiative regenerates. The Dec 10th patch also nerfed most of the initiative regain traits, meaning we are more dependant on the passive regen. Even though this has been buffed, it still increases the time between bursts for many builds, and makes it more difficult to recover from a mistake.

3) Most thief builds are based around a couple of attacks, be it backstab, flanking strikes, whatever, because there is usually only a couple of high damage skills on a particular set. In comparison, most other classes have multiple hard hitting abilities on the same set, with the ability to swap weapons and have a fresh set of skills. The cool down on a specific warrior burst skill compared with thief is thus less relevant than the number of burst skills/combos available to the warrior. If this warrior manages his cool downs properly, he can burst just as frequently as a thief, if not more so, and be less predictable whilst doing it. And, if a skill misses, the warrior’s ability to use his other skills is not affected, unlike the thief.

Swagger.1459:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Any thief who cares about their class will stop replying and let this thread die. It’s not happening, OP.

What you’re really saying is, “I’d prefer professions, including thief, remain stagnant so don’t contribute to a topic that tackles real balance and growth preventing issues.”.

That’s not what he’s saying, and that’s not what this topic does. Your original post reads more like “He’s got something I don’t have, we should have the same so fix it”, and you don’t even bother to give reasons for the change that would benefit the class or the game as a whole. Either you’re a troll, or you have no understanding of how thief actually works. Whichever it is, until you have something constructive to say, please keep it to yourself

Karolis.4261:

Tyragon.2496:

Karolis.4261:

It can be fun all you want, but once it would collide with any other zerg there would be carpet of dead thiefs.

True thieves don’t charge head-on, they stealth, they hide.. and then they take you from behind.

Thieves wont survive enemys zerg splash damage. You can stealth all you want but u wont get nowere close to stacked up zerg.

Ever read discworld? The secret to not dying isn’t being tough, or fast, it’s simply not being where the other guy’s sword is :P

I use the same set in both fractals and WvW, so an easy choice there lol :P

I’d agree with Oghier, do the set you use in fractals. Getting the extra infusion slots is the main reason I can see for doing it, and fractals is where they have the most impact. The extra stats are nice, but you won’t miss them if you have a better set of exotics for another build (Lyssa/zerker for S/D, for example).

Hey guys,

I get this every couple of months, usually if the game crashes beforehand. Normally it crashes after loading char select but before I can actually select a char lol :P I find using the disk utility to verify & repair the disk permissions fixes it, may be worth a go for you too.

Huh, nice to know it’s not just me that has this issue. CMD – Tab works for me, although it’s pretty annoying :P

I hit a zerker staff ele in WvW for 12k backstab followed by 8k heartseeker once, that’s my highest burst to date.

I was running the 0/30/30/30/0 hidden killer D/P build at the time, and I used assassin’s signet with the gain might on signet use trait. I had 25 stacks of bloodlust, no guard leech. Half my armour was soldiers and a couple of trinkets ware cavalier, rest was zerker.

I’d normally expect to see 8-9k backstabs against something like that, I only slapped on the signet because the opportunity presented itself (Seriously, when are people going to learn to look on ledges for the thief waiting for you to walk underneath? xD ).

Backstabs like the one in the OP are more than possible, but you must have absolutely NO defence to get hit like that. As others have said, the problem isn’t the thief, it’s the other class refusing to use any form of toughness. I dread to think what a hundred blades warrior would hit you for :P

I’d welcome a 25% movement trait, as long as the signet stays untouched. It’s not like you’d be forced to take it any more than the signet or traveler runes, and we’re supposed to be the mobile class anyways. More ways of achieving the same thing is always a good thing imo (provided they don’t nerf us in return :P )

knyy.6427:

caveman.5840:

knyy.6427:

i am a fellow thief player and i LOVE the changes made. it was the right way to nerf permastealth + infiltrators return as they were OP like hell. now dont come with other professions and their OP stuff, that has no place here. everything which is OP has to go away.

lol i think all classes should be able to have a outnumbered fight just like the war or mesmer or what ever . but just because we r able to jump in a fight and help finish off that persons rampage dos not mean we should be forced to be a finisher/ support class lol

i dont know what you are talking about. permastealth is just bad and everyone knows it. infiltrators return is a “stunbreak” without cd, so cc immunity. b r o k e n – and therefore removed!

I would have less of a problem with the IR nerf if the mesmer’s staff 2 was also nerfed. It has pretty much the same functionality, why nerf one for allowing you to “escape” stuns when you leave the other untouched? Either leave both or nerf both. Preferably leave them :P

Just make it evade the first CC that you don’t dodge. Problem solved.

As it is, having stability and reflection up from dagger storm and STILL being teleported into a wall when hit with a magic bullet cannot be in any way considered helpful xD

wish.1027:

Mirror Owl.7204:

I really don’t see why a relatively niche weapon set is being so utterly destroyed.

Its probably because if you ran D/D + S/D or D/P + S/D you could fight and kill anyone who was at a lower skill level than you, and stand a good chance against anyone at your skill level. Oh wait, isnt that suppose to be a good thing and how games are designed?

^ This.

EpicSuperFail.9518:

Well, thank you everyone for the help. I’m still going to stick with thief. Looks like I’m going for the old standby d/d build.

Good to hear, thief is still an amazing class if you’re willing to put the time in

Elxdark.9702:

DakSevkla.3278:

I really only enjoy Thief. Managing Initiative, the ability to shadowstep around, stealth, big crits. I really enjoy this play style. I’ve made a few alts, but none of them have interested me. I’m a Thief, always will be. I can’t wait to see what the next patch brings that I have to adapt to.

I wish all thieves were a bit more like you.

I’m in the same boat, it’s an in joke in my guild that my alts have shorter lifespans than people wearing red shirts in star trek. Thief is what I enjoy, other classes just don’t fit right.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Stats are wonderful things. Did you know that 90% of all road accidents involving a pedestrian happen on the pavement? So logically, to reduce the risk of being run over, pedestrians should walk in the road. (Some people I know from college genuinely could not find fault with this argument. The world is a scary place :P )

lol, that’s like saying that 100% of divorce cases are caused by marriage.

Iknowright!?! xD

Terok.7315:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Terok.7315:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Terok.7315:

Do you understand the difference between soft and hard counters (I’m not being sarcastic)? Soft counters should be in the game, hard counters shouldn’t be within fifty miles of a game that is supposedly about skill.

I do, and I don’t think that this particular counter is an issue unless the entire player base refuses to adapt. It’s a grandmaster trait in a lesser used trait line on one class. You have ways of dealing with it. If you choose not to use them, that’s not the ele’s fault.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Same thing happened to me whilst roaming with another thief, a necro and a guardian sat on the trap and waited for the free loot bag. I got hit by the trap and got focused into the floor.

My roaming partner then got me up and we murdered them of course, but that’s beside the point. When 2 of the tankiest classes in the game abuse a mechanic that removes pretty much all healing, damage, condi cleanse and blinds from the squishiest class in the game just to get an easy kill, it speaks volumes about how badly balanced said mechanic is.

I’d love to see the reaction if an anti adrenaline/death shroud trap came out, but of course that wouldn’t happen since that would victimize warriors/necros…. -.-

I don’t think you’re being honest with me. You know necromancer is balanced around conditions, you know that this trait hard counters our class and you don’t like it when the same thing happens to you. Why is necromancer a special case?

Diamond skin isn’t a hard counter to your class, just like stealth trap isn’t a hard counter to thief. That is because the class doesn’t have to rely on one mechanic, even if it’s built with it in mind. It does however counter a specific build. Only one class can use diamond skin (when fully invested in an otherwise mediocre line), and you have an easy way to deal with it when you see it: knock the ele’s health down a bit with physical attacks, then resume condi spam. This makes it a fair counter. Anyone can do what happened to me in that post, and it takes the thief out of the fight for 30 seconds with no way to counter it except wait, that lack of counter is why it’s a problem. Try again.

I’m not saying it’s a nice thing to happen. I clearly don’t like it when it happens to me, who would? What I am saying is that you have an easy way to deal with this, and if you refuse to use it then that’s your problem really. Try opening with something other than signet of spite or fear.

Its been thoroughly explained to you how this negatively impacts both power and condition based necromancer builds, you keep responding with impractical tactics (i.e “knock the ele’s health down a bit with physical attacks”) and avoiding/dismissing discussion of how the necromancer is balanced and functions. The post I linked presented a situation where an ability nullified an important defensive/offensive mechanic that saves your backside all the time. It wasn’t a perfect example, but you clearly didn’t think it was a balanced mechanic when it affected you.

This conversation is going in circles, you refuse to acknowledge that this trait puts powermancers in a tougher spot than they already were and you seem to be fine with condition builds being hard countered by passive play. We’re not going to agree on this. All the same, just like dhummfire — diamond skin will eventually get the nerf bat because it was a poorly thought out mechanic. Its just a shame we’ll have to deal with it for the foreseeable future.

Ok, you’ve explained how it affects power builds. If you can’t remove 10% of the ele’s health before it starts to kite so you can use your snares, you’re doing it wrong. All you have to do is knock the ele below 90%, then you can attack in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY AS YOU DID BEFORE. I really don’t mean to be rude, please don’t take it that way, I just don’t see what’s so hard about that.

The part I objected to in that post is anyone being able to remove my stealth. I now counter this by bringing a secondary weapon I can kite with that doesn’t rely on stealth to function. You only have to counter one class, using a trait from an unpopular tree that means they either sacrifice damage or healing to get it.
Frankly, if you think damaging an ele before piling on conditions to remove their immunity is an impractical tactic, then I don’t know what to say to you.

Terok.7315:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Terok.7315:

Do you understand the difference between soft and hard counters (I’m not being sarcastic)? Soft counters should be in the game, hard counters shouldn’t be within fifty miles of a game that is supposedly about skill.

I do, and I don’t think that this particular counter is an issue unless the entire player base refuses to adapt. It’s a grandmaster trait in a lesser used trait line on one class. You have ways of dealing with it. If you choose not to use them, that’s not the ele’s fault.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Same thing happened to me whilst roaming with another thief, a necro and a guardian sat on the trap and waited for the free loot bag. I got hit by the trap and got focused into the floor.

My roaming partner then got me up and we murdered them of course, but that’s beside the point. When 2 of the tankiest classes in the game abuse a mechanic that removes pretty much all healing, damage, condi cleanse and blinds from the squishiest class in the game just to get an easy kill, it speaks volumes about how badly balanced said mechanic is.

I’d love to see the reaction if an anti adrenaline/death shroud trap came out, but of course that wouldn’t happen since that would victimize warriors/necros…. -.-

I don’t think you’re being honest with me. You know necromancer is balanced around conditions, you know that this trait hard counters our class and you don’t like it when the same thing happens to you. Why is necromancer a special case?

Diamond skin isn’t a hard counter to your class, just like stealth trap isn’t a hard counter to thief. That is because the class doesn’t have to rely on one mechanic, even if it’s built with it in mind. It does however counter a specific build. Only one class can use diamond skin (when fully invested in an otherwise mediocre line), and you have an easy way to deal with it when you see it: knock the ele’s health down a bit with physical attacks, then resume condi spam. This makes it a fair counter. Anyone can do what happened to me in that post, and it takes the stealth based thief out of the fight for 30 seconds with no way to counter it except wait, that lack of counter is why it’s a problem. Try again.

I’m not saying it’s a nice thing to happen. I clearly don’t like it when it happens to me, who would? What I am saying is that you have an easy way to deal with this, and if you refuse to use it then that’s your problem really. Try opening with something other than signet of spite or fear.

(edited for clarity)

Balefire.7592:

That’s confirmation bias, not proof.
And I know very well what Power Necros do, I run one.
They twiddle their thumbs when you Ride the Lightning/Burning Speed/Lightning Flash/Mist Form/Obsidian Flesh and run away since without an available snare, you can’t catch the Ele. Trust me, I would love to just mash people with my dagger, but as it turns out, opponents are not so fond of just sitting around and eating damage.

Ele’s running away shouldn’t be any more of an issue than it was, since people only tend to run on low health which means the trait wouldn’t help them anyway. All you have to do is have a way of dealing 10% damage to an ele, then you can use your snares/conditions as normal.

My point is that there is a way to deal with people using this trait. If people insist on using the condi only build, then that’s their choice. Having a counter to the tactic and not using it is just a little silly imo.

Not to mention, the patch has been out less than a day. The meta needs time to adjust. Give it time.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Do you understand the difference between soft and hard counters (I’m not being sarcastic)? Soft counters should be in the game, hard counters shouldn’t be within fifty miles of a game that is supposedly about skill.

I do, and I don’t think that this particular counter is an issue unless the entire player base refuses to adapt. It’s a grandmaster trait in a lesser used trait line on one class. You have ways of dealing with it. If you choose not to use them, that’s not the ele’s fault.