Guild Wars 2

It is the bigger picture. Tequatls is fail, noone is doing him on many servers.

He has the highest chance to drop the best gear in game, that otherwise can only be obtained by a horrid timegated grind (which is very casual unfriendly).

So the other way to maybe get the best gear in game, that was promised to the casuals (Tequatl) right now is not an option.

Unless you join a special guild, and kill the boss in artificial instances (overflow servers), which sounds even less casual and more like a classical raiding guild in WoW.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Exotic-Vs-Currently-Available-Ascended/first

I have to double check some numbers, but it looks fairly appropriate.

Mainly cosmetic? It is better. If you go DD, you have an advantage of roughly 10% with just the existing items.

10% is cosmetic?

Go ask your boss if you can get an extra 10% money for your work, as it is just cosmetics.

And now saying, casuals won’t get the best items. And the most difficult content is in open world and will drop the best loot in game is sort of the opposite, is it…

LHound.8964:

Can’t understand what you trying to say very clearly…

- Are you saying that players that puts a lot of effort into obtaining things should receive the same things than those who don’t give a crap and do absolutely nothing?

- Are you saying that those who works to be the best, training, repeating when failing, should be rewarded in equal manner as those you are slackers?

Make no mistake, i’m no hardcore player (mostly play 1-2 days per week), but i admit with the current effort i make in the game, i’m not entitled to have the same things as those who put more effort into the game in the same timeframe.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-27-guild-wars-2-preview

Eurogamer: How are you handling endgame loot – will we be farming bosses?

Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions – a lot of that is still up in the air and we’ll finalise a lot of those reward systems as we get closer to release. And those come off of things like the bosses at the end of dungeons – the raids.

OK, everyone even the casual get the best stats gear. And the most difficult content is in dungeons for cosmetic items.

This is where I am coming from, this is what I want to say

LHound.8964:

TL.DR : If you don’t care enough to make a small effort in coordination, you deserve to fail! Work for success!

/cheers

That sounds exactly like the arguments from WoW. If you put not enough work into the best gear, you do not deserve the best gear.
If you do not put enough effort into the content, you do not deserve to beat it.

Work for success, just playing the game is not enough.

Listen to yourself.

kazi.6438:

You can preview the ascended armor stats by using chat codes (google these). If you were to equip an entire set of armor, the stat boost is only like +30 to your primary stat and +14 to secondary stats. Also it only adds about 30 defense iirc.

Let’s be honest, one stack of might (or the bloodlust buff) gives more of a buff than the ascended armor will.

Me in ascended armor (same stats) will do more damage than me in exotic armor. Even with just one piece of ascended, I will do more damage than with exotic.

The more ascended pieces I have, the more damage I will do. I thought that was a simple concept.

Galen Grey.4709:

TainoFuerte.8136:

“Evidence”

“From my experience”

“I don’t feel at a disadvantage”

vs

Objectively higher numerical values on the stats of items and weapon damage values

“Numbers on paper isn’t evidence”

¯\(°_o)/¯

Apologism. Apologism never changes.

Depends on what you’re arguing
objective higher numerical values are only proof ascended gear are better then exotic gear. It doesnt prove anything else.

Numbers only mean stuff in relation with everything else in the whole big picture.

Also no one is apologizing about anything much less for anyone. We;re just disagreeing this is something that needs to be addressed thats all.

Same trait setup, same type of gear:

With ascended items instead of exotic, every single damage skill will do more damage on average.

Numbers don’t lie. One setup results in more damage. There you got your imbalance.
Wouldn’t be a problem if ascended items were easy to get for casuals, but that is not true.

Get zerker, mix in exotic stuff with other stats if you want.

Zerker has the most potential as ascended for weapons through the DD nature and the higher damage on the weapon.
For everything else but DD the difference in DPS is lower.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

The game launched with 8 dungeons which most people don’t like.

As someone who always chides others for making unprovable statements like this, I would have hoped you’d refrain. You have absolutely no idea if this is true.

Well, dungeons were and are still trash filled nighmares, with some hp sponge bosses in between. How would anyone like this kind of stuff anyway?

You’re projecting your dislike for the game onto others.

Ok, I will reformulate it a bit.

How could anyone, that has been looking for an exciting new experience, made for people who do not like MMOs enjoy gameplay, that is the essence of what most people see as main part of MMOs nowadays in MMOs, dungeon crawling.
Especially as those dungeons were made in the same scheme: Trash, boss, trash, boss, rinse, repeat.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

The game launched with 8 dungeons which most people don’t like.

As someone who always chides others for making unprovable statements like this, I would have hoped you’d refrain. You have absolutely no idea if this is true.

Well, dungeons were and are still trash filled nighmares, with some hp sponge bosses in between. How would anyone like this kind of stuff anyway?

Honestly, the dungeons are the weakest spot of GW2 anyway. They feel like an artificial left over made for players of other MMOs to have a place to crawl. They are the least innovative part of the game.
If I want to play dungeons in a group, I have far superior options in other games.

As I said, encounters needed polish, but the over all experience was satisfying. You had a personal story that was fairly bad, but at least you have been part of it, and your face showed up in the one or other cutscene.

You had worldbosses, that were challenging (I saw them fail, in the first month after launch), but people actually tried them.

Now over time, they polished the game, the stuff that was in vanilla release so to say, and most of it happend to be just fixing (well they ruined Orr though) and people are ok with it. Unforunately, the new stuff that survived the Living Story two week death cycle like Tequatl seems to be out of place.

It is not much in the first place. The permanent content we got since the start of the LS is so little, that people would like to at least be able to do all of it. Taking a big dragon out of the schedule was a bad decision.

If the success ratio of an open world event is around 5%, this open world encounter needs fixing.

We need a looking for raid tool for open world bosses.
The answer is to copy the raid encounters of other games first, and then copy their tools to make them accessible.

We need raiding guilds, so you can just gather up in a group for raiding. But not on your server, but an atificial instanced one. You wanna do it, join the raiding guild.

As soon as there are new raids, the guild will move on, progression so to say. Join a progression raiding guild now, like in the good ol’ days.

People who think that this development is a good idea should play WoW, as this game gives you all that stuff in larger quantities.

Mojo.7986:

Amazing the difference between content you have years to design and that which you don’t. Things will likely not get better. The LS will continue to be half thought out, poorly implemented, and bug ridden until they realize that making good content takes time they are not giving their development team.

Fair enough comment. People complain, because most of the content they got with the vanilla game was very well designed. Events needed tuning, some stuff was too easy, but overall, the open world was a great experience.

Now we have the Living Story and content updates every two weeks. Unfortunately, those updates feel rushed, and in no way as polished as the content in retail.

I really wish, they would take the time on content, they actually need, and present us a big content patch every 3 monthes and a expansion every year, with the quality level we had, when the game was released.

I see it this way:

First Tequatl was undead and we had to kill him.
Now Tequatl is simply dead and noone cares anymore.

We won!

I see this as a reminder, that no Dev ever reads the Mesmer forum.

I nearly forgot that with all the red icons in front of our threats.

I still think, your titel is too long, how about:

Remove Ascended from WvWvW

Honestly, I was just fooling around. I will quote myself on this topic from another threat:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Having a one-hit-wonder guild you have to join, so you can beat a single boss in the game is really good game design.

I mean, hey, that’s what guilds are for. And thank god we have overflows – now they have a meaning. Sometimes I wish I had created my characters on the overflow server instead of my own one.

At least now we have real raiding in the game, with coordination and TS and stuff, for the tiny chance to get the best gear in game. That is what the game was advertised like.

I am really happy, that this game becomes more and more like the one other game out there. Screw those casuals, they don’t need the best gear anyway, they can do the stuff they do in greens.
The best gear is needed for the hardest content. The hardest content is for the best coordinated players. Therefore, the best gear should drop from the hardest content.
Only the people willing to work towards the best gear should earn it in the end.

If you and your guild or server are too bad, you do not deserve it anyway.

I for one heard that kind of stuff before.

The Tequatl encounter is total fail.

For fun things, you do not need ascended gear.
If you do not like the encounter, just skip it. Most things can be done in greens, Arah, might require some rares.

But otherwise, just don’t do content that is too hard.

TTS is a raiding guild. Tequatl is a raid encounter.

Join raiding guild, do raid content – get loot.

Such a simple concept, it worked in other games too.

But encounters like Tequatl drop ascended gear, the best items in the game.
What would you expect, these items have to be difficult to get, what would be the point otherwise?

Good news, they want to rework all open-world bosses to be similar in difficulty to Tequatl.
You should better get used to what this encounter is, otherwise you will be fairly frustrated in the future.

g e o.2589:

Well it is pretty big complect in old zone, I hope couple of greatsword hits won’t collapse it leaving no trace of it ever being there.

With all the things disappearing all the time, a tower more or less would not be too suspicious.

Honestly, I feel it’s such a waste to get rid of all the content after such short time, but the Living Story rule seems to be: It is patch day again, be gone old content.

I really have a hard time to think of anyone who was asking for an open world boss, that is not killable in open world.

People have asked for hard raidcontent, and they were probably thinking of instanced challenges. But the outcry was loud, even though I personally think, why not.

People have asked to make Tequatl less boring. Not simply impossible for most times he is up. If I go there at any time on my server, he is sitting in his cage.

This is content for noone. It is a wasteland, the big thing, one of the big fights they said will be an awesome thing in this game is now just a chore, noone is willing to do.

Guesting and creating an artificial instance with joining an overflow may keep the WoW type of player happy, but for everyone else, this is just wrong.

Having a one-hit-wonder guild you have to join, so you can beat a single boss in the game is really good game design.

I mean, hey, that’s what guilds are for. And thank god we have overflows – now they have a meaning. Sometimes I wish I had created my characters on the overflow server instead of my own one.

At least now we have real raiding in the game, with coordination and TS and stuff, for the tiny chance to get the best gear in game. That is what the game was advertised like.

I am really happy, that this game becomes more and more like the one other game out there. Screw those casuals, they don’t need the best gear anyway, they can do the stuff they do in greens.
The best gear is needed for the hardest content. The hardest content is for the best coordinated players. Therefore, the best gear should drop from the hardest content.
Only the people willing to work towards the best gear should earn it in the end.

If you and your guild or server are too bad, you do not deserve it anyway.

I for one heard that kind of stuff before.

If I wanted WoW open world bosses, I would play WoW.

GW2 bosses should be epic but not a guild event for 100 people in teamspeak. God knows why ANet started thinking this would be a good change. Tequatl has been deserted on my server since the first week.
I am not even sure if my server killed him once (the page showing it won’t work for me…).

Yeah, I have to use guesting to kill an open world boss. And first I have to find the right server.

Bad game design is bad.

The question that has to be asked:

Will the tower be permanent content?

At least this update looks sort of promising, maybe it has not a total failure of a villain.
Finally a new skill – our first horizontal progression so to say.

Will it last, or will it be another thing to be forgotten after two weeks?

They had to do it so they could make karma more valuable.

Unfortunately, they missed one point though. People who like to grind had millions of it anyway, as they had tons of ancient wood and ori and all that stuff.
So everyone who liked to grind got all the stuff they needed for ascended weapons in the first place, while they made it ridiculously hard for casuals and new players to get these items.

And on the way, they destroyed the point of all other karma items, as everyone is saving like crazy for ascended stuff.

Most serious PvE mesmer run sword/sword + sword/x in dungeons.

I demand less swords in PvE.

The problem is not the introduction of ascended gear. It is the fact that ANet has stated that everyone, even the casuals should have the BiS gear.

They could have introduces ascended gear with better stats and made it easily accessible, or the same stats, just fencier, but hard to get.

They didn’t though. They made them better but available through grind (grinding fractals, grinding resources, etc.), which actually went against two advertised game pillars.

Grind is no fun.
BiS should be easily accessible by casuals.

Even if ascended gear had only 1 stat point more, it would still be the best gear in the game. I do no understand why people try to diminish this fact. Better gear is better.

Everyone was promised the best gear stat wise – for little effort.
This is not true, I am looking at you, ascended weapons.

lordkrall.7241:

Why do people keep shouting about how MASSIVE the gap will be and how REQUIRED Ascended will be?

The difference between Rare and Exotic is larger than between Exotic and Ascended. And yet it is fully possible to run around in WvW and kill people, it is possible to complete every single dungeon in Mastergear Items and so on.

If it was such a massive difference, wouldn’t that difference have been even more massive between Rare and Exotic? And yet no one seems to complain about that.

So what will ANet do in the future, when all ascended gear is released.

Producing content, that is trivial in ascended gear, which will cause an outcry by people having it,

or,

producing new content that is appropriate to the existing gear level, making it harder for everyone without it?.

What do you think? It is a trap.

Or will they split the content? Where will this lead to?

Mackdose.6504:

If you have zerker exotics and I have ascended non-zerker, you out damage me.

That right there should illustrate how small this gap we’re talking about is.

If I have ascended zerker and you have exotic zerker, I will outdamage you.
So simple is it to illustrate that there is a gap.

What is your point in comparing apple and oranges?

You need to be level 60 for it, and it also means you loose the utility slots for mantras that are not too efficient for leveling. I would recommend to go with my leveling build, if you want to level as efficient as possible.

Illusionary Persona just gives you so much more potential and damage and you get 20% faster illusions by going 30 into Illusions first at 60.

Click the link in my signature for a leveling guide, this might help you to kill things faster.

eisberg.2379:

Lonesamurai.4852:

Exosferatu.2961:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Wait, what? Why would they release a manifesto for public consumption that is not crystal clear and requires “interpretation?”

What was stated was the selling point for the entire game for me.

Because everything does not always go according to plan.

You’re right, however the manifesto is 100% out the window

Thats a BIG difference

Except for it isn’t. Everything in the Manifesto is true.

Just your meaning that you put that Anet did not intend is what makes it not true. But for what Anet said themselves it meant is still holds true.

Go here:

Jump to 23min 30sec. Listen.

Reflect on your comment.

eisberg.2379:

Didn’t respond to it because it was 100% opinion being stated as if it was a fact.

Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.

It doesn’t make the things less true, just because you think it is just my personal opinion.
Would you be so kind and point out what is my personal opinion, so I may point out to you even more clearly what is fact. Please.

The information on ESO is very limited.
The idea of a class free RPG is a working concept, and it can be incredibly fun. And a nightmare to balance.

In terms of MMOs it is. If you see it from your lawyer standpoint of course, it is different.

But in terms of MMOs it means that you start out with a product and the product at one point goes into a totally different direction, like from horizontal to vertical progression.

You have been tricked to buy a product, that becomes something different than you were expecting.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Because taken in the context of this quote chain, if a class is designed to favour an armour type, then it would be better to use that armour type by design.

It might be not the best build for a single target DD, but depending on the combination you choose, you could be an unstoppable AoE tank, gaining tons of xp while killing hordes of mobs simultaniously.

The box, think outside of it.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Noobkaka.5067:

Elder scrolls online will make it able for you to wear any armor you want and any weapons you want, however the class you choose will favour some armor type or some weapon type. Such as nightblade (thief/rogue) which will favour daggers and leather/medium armor above heavier armor or weapons.
I think this is what people want, that or new better skins for medium and light armor – and medium is really S hhhhhhhhhhhhh it.

That’s pretty much the same thing as having class armour restrictions. If leather is better on a thief than light or heavy, why would anyone use the latter two?

I dunno. Just think outside the box. People got way too streamlined in things like RPG nowadays.
Imagine to create a character the way you want. There will be trait-offs, but a fireball wielding knight with heavy armor sounds cool sort of.

It would be cool, but it would also be a rubbish build.

How would you know?

Xae Isareth.1364:

Noobkaka.5067:

Elder scrolls online will make it able for you to wear any armor you want and any weapons you want, however the class you choose will favour some armor type or some weapon type. Such as nightblade (thief/rogue) which will favour daggers and leather/medium armor above heavier armor or weapons.
I think this is what people want, that or new better skins for medium and light armor – and medium is really S hhhhhhhhhhhhh it.

That’s pretty much the same thing as having class armour restrictions. If leather is better on a thief than light or heavy, why would anyone use the latter two?

I dunno. Just think outside the box. People got way too streamlined in things like RPG nowadays.
Imagine to create a character the way you want. There will be trait-offs, but a fireball wielding knight with heavy armor sounds cool sort of.

I personally think, reducing the meaning of grinding to just accumulating xp by killing mobs is no longer up-to-date.

Grind in games is seen as a repetitive act, be it killing mobs, farming resources or grinding quests, instances or whatever content.

Mindless repetition is seen as grinding. Farming ori and ancient wood for weeks is a mindless repetition. Farming instances for gold is a mindless repetition. But the latter one is ok with the manifesto.
The first one is mandatory though as it is needed for ascended items, which still are BiS, And don’t fool yourself, BiS items is what players strife for at 80 and they were promised to be easily accessible.
People feel excluded if they can’t, and this way you create elitism, a thing that most people tried to escape when they started with GW2.

Those with ascended items will say, they are easy to get if you just try, which will enrage the people that try and can not even more.

And as a result we have drama, as seen here on the forums, and to be honest, rightfully though.

There have been other games with scheduled releases in relatively short timeframes way before Guild Wars 2.
Asheron’s Call 2 started out with monthly content releases, and that was when, 2002?

Players are not greedy, the companies are. The want to earn money, so they have to offer something to their costumer. You got it all the wrong way around.

Nope, they said no new classes in the near or far future.

In the end, the game was released true to the Manifesto last year.
Then they changed it. I followed the development as eager as you. We all knew there would be grind for items that have the best looks, that was true for the release too, just look at the legendary weapons.
And that was fine, they had the same stats as exotics and people got them anyway, without vertical progression.

Now you have to play the lawyers game, twisting words in their meaning to make statements true that sound false. You will not convince people with that kind of talk though. It is artificial.

I know you like to defend ANet, but they have done people wrong. They took everything they liked about GW1 and trashed it. At least that is what veterans feel.
And from my experience, if it feels wrong, something is wrong.

People liked how the gear was handled in GW1. Now we have vertical progression.
People liked the freedom in skill choice. Now you have fixed skills an just a handfull to choose for the open slots.
People liked the easy to achieve max level. Now they have to spend what, 60h of playtime, if you don’t craft your way there.

Now I know, “people” can be anyone. But you have to expect your customers to feel as part of that group.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/media/videos/

The kitten Manifesto is still on the official homepage. Why would people not refer to it. It is still part of the advertisement. Why should we not discuss it?

Again on the topic of gear, as I posted earlier, that has been posted after the Manifesto:

Eurogamer: How are you handling endgame loot – will we be farming bosses?

Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions – a lot of that is still up in the air and we’ll finalise a lot of those reward systems as we get closer to release. And those come off of things like the bosses at the end of dungeons – the raids.

Read more here: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-27-guild-wars-2-preview

Ascended gear and it’s implementation in November 2012 was a neck breaker for the Manifesto.

Btw, have you ever played any other MMO? Like Age of Conan pre-expansion? Why do people think that all other MMOs have been grindy? Grinding dailies or monthlies? Grinding weeks for mats for crafting?
That has all become standard in GW2 earlier than in most other AAA MMOs. It was not part of many other MMOs in their first year…

ToPocHi.2480:

And I can’t believe people still have their minds completely tunnel-visioned on the manifesto.

It is the topic of this thread, what did you expect to find in here? Of course we are discussing the Manifesto in a topic called “According to the manifesto”.

People…

Sorry, I have bad news. You are not the hero, you are a catalyst for the story.
You are a redshirt in the bigger arc of events. You have no personal choices everything is set in stone.
The first story arc is the story of a salad man known as Trahearne. And a bunch of people who act like little kids known as Destiny’s Edge.

You will never be anything special. This is your story.