Guild Wars 2

As for perma stealth thieves: first they need to adress the rendering, much will improve there.
If they can’t do that, than they need to change stealth itself.

Not because stealth is OP, but stealth + rendering issues + high damage = a problem.

I suggested the same in another topic as well:

give the lower popluation reductions in cost for sieges etc, give them more resource benefit.
While also giving each player some damage buff and/or defense buff.

At this point it is important to see if players have that buff or not: to avoid running into a small bunch of overbuffed players.

As it stands now, I still can’t understand the reasoning behind showing the ‘outmanned’ buff.
I’m sure I’m missing something, because I think it’s only bad to put it on players.

Bit like the ‘arrow up’ on lower levels: why on earth do you want to put them in even more of a disadvantage?

Reclusiarh.2674:

I’m a warrior main and moa morph is definitely hands down the most op skill as far as I know. the first time I was morphed I was running around thinking; wtf, what, where? help! I’m a chicken now!

Hundred blades only works on zombies, nothing to see here, move along.

Hundred blades is strong, and can be argued about I guess.
But it has more counters beyond just ‘dodge’.

That’s my criterium: what are the possible counters and who has acces to them?

MOA has none…

I still haven’t seen an answer on this one:

in topics about endgame people tell me this game is not designed to rush to 80.
It seems rushing it is doing it wrong, it seems the leveling maps IS the major endgame.

In topics about WvW or dungeons people always say how fast you can get to 80 so you should stop complaining about being lower level and weaker.

It’s not even a choice, both are apparantly how the game is designed to be enjoyed.
So how can both be true and valid?

It’s like saying: chose between enjoying leveling and enjoying dungeons.
Or between leveling and exploring and doing WvW.

At least in WvW you can join even though you’re a LOT weaker.
In dungeons most groups don’t even let you join… even if you’re doing it ‘right’ by not leveling fast.

I tell you: this game can’t chose what it wants to be, and that’s causing a lot of trouble for the community.

Ryuujin.8236:

Moa Morph is essentially a 10 second daze with a twist. But you can still run, dodge and hide during this time.

Except for the small fact that you can NOT do what you are supposed to be doing…
You can not fight, you can not capture or defend a point, you can not even defend yourself, you can not do anything except run.

And let’s face it: if a Mesmer wants to kill you, he will. No ammount of running without swiftness will help you get away. You can’t even jump walls to take shortcuts or go LoS.

But very often the mesmer will just ignore you and focus on other things.
You can’t get out of it anyhow.

It’s not a 10 sec daze, it’s a 10 second stun but wthout a stun breaker for it.
In return you can run… if they let you.

For me an overpowered skill is defined by its counters. And MOA has none, except the same as everything else: you can dodge IF you see it coming.
Good luck seeing it coming in a messy big fight.
It’s also not relevant that many mesmers don’t use MOA. It’s about the skill in itself, and that has no counter.
MOA has no counters of its own. Dodge working on everything makes dodge a void answer.

Chris, there are plenty of ‘thank you Anet’ posts bumping constructive posts down as well.
And those posts never even get merged, so they keep bumping.

And for the record: those posts aren’t any more constructive than the complaining posts, since they add exactly no usefull information except the OP’s personal view.

It’s a forum, deal with it.

And I doubt people are holding back ‘constructive posts’ because they fear it will be bumped of by the same negative posts.
Bumping happens all the time, by any posts.
And on top of that: is someone feels he has something to say on the forum, he usually will. Most people consider their own input most valuable and want it to be heard.
I know I am like that, and this topic proves you are like that as well.

You are just using that argument to your benefit, while you’re not in a position to speak for others.
Bit funny, since you just told someone in another topic he can’t speak for others…

My experience is that Arenanet moderators are keeping the forum as tidy as they want it to be.
They merge what THEY think should be merged.
They remove what THEY think shouldn’t be on the forums.

It’s not that I even agree on what they merge or remove. It’s simply that I see no reason why they would need our help for any of that.

Players shouldn’t tell other players what type of posts they can or can not make.
Arenanet can do that perfectly fine without us…

I don’t agree on all parts, nor do I disagree on all reactions, but I would like to add this:

from what I gathered in WvW and from dungeons, there is this odd reasoning going on:

- when people discuss the game they tell you NOT to rush leveling, NOT to complete map and go on, they tell you to take it SLOW.
They tell you the endgame IS the game itself. They tell you that you are doing it wrong if you hurry to 80.
And they often use caps in odd places to tell you that.

- when you discuss WvW they tell you that it’s easy to get to 80 and you shouldn’t complain about imbalance as a leveler. Just get to 80 fast.

- when you discuss dungeons they tell you that you need to be serious about it and leveling to 80 first isn’t too much to ask.
Again: just get to 80 fast.

There are inherent flaws in this reasoning, and in this design for that matter.

2 million copies of 60 $ is a good start to pay some bills.
Because, as mentioned over and over: this is NOT F2P. It is Buy to play (B2P).

And beyond that an overly pushed gem shop should cover the rest.

For a game only 3 months old, I would guess it hasn’t done bad financially so far.
Between the initial sales, the gems, the Haloween sellings…

No idea how that summs out for the costs and the future plans, but no one can argue that they didn’t make quite a lot of money so far.

Hiring some staff could be an idea

I put all of this here to show that they don’t really need either vertical or horizontal progression yet. Not to cover costs I think.
So I would have expected for them to wait a bit longer before introducing this…

As for horizontal progression: there is a lot more than ‘skins’.
They could offer a world to unlock in terms of mounts, houses, pets, city items not for combat, spell effects, etc…

So even when they arrive at the point they need money, there is no fixed choice what would be best: vertical or horizontal progression.
Both can work IF you want them to work.

I follow commanders that make sense.
On top of that I check if commanders work together or are ego-tripping.

If a few commanders work well together than I simply go where I’m needed the most, according to their orders and my proximity to any called targets.

There are commanders who aren’t worth following, I can see that as well, but luckily less on my server it seems.
If I would encounter one I would mostly ignore but still see if any called objectives are in need of help or not.

Electing commanders would have to happen on the spot, and I think that would create more issues than it would solve.
So I’m not in favor of that opion. Even if it is again the only ‘fair’ one…

What I don’t like is how a commander is simply something you buy.
In a good WvW guild that will sort itself, but in other cases it could go to some ignorant egotripper with a lot of gold…
So that system of becoming a commander needs work, but having votes every time something goes wrong is not the way to go.

Thanks for the input all, I appreciate all arguments given. Both those few agreeing and the many not agreeing with me

Think most is said by now, but don’t let that stop you if you would want to add something more.

I wouldn’t touch the numbers so much, allthough that does seem like the only ‘fair’ option.
Seeing how it would force people out of doing WvW I don’t like the option that much.

But if your server is below a certain treshhold of players, how about lowering upgrade costs, increasing effectiveness of resources and all that?

I think it’s fair enough to say that a max filled server has more means to buy plans for trebs and all those things, while a low population could do with some reductions.

Just let the system count your numbers and than scale the prices and resources.
Could help a lot.

Seeing as players aren’t equal anyhow (another thing that is in theory ‘not fair’) we could also create small player buffs if you’re outnumbered.
Just a small modifier depending on how many players you have in WvW at that given time.

These 2 solutions will have downsides too, but at least they wouldn’t effect players wanting to get in the fight on any server…

My only issue with the Tool Kit is the slow ‘casting’ time of the strikes.
In pvp they are far too easy to dodge.

The pull can be dodged too, but as you can move while casting it, not many expect a pull from a moving player
The range was the real problem and 1200 is absolutely perfect now.

Prybar is great, good damage and nice confusion.

Traited the block is 3 seconds on a 16 sec cooldown, that’s pretty dam good.

And from the same trait all the crippling is pretty nice too, especially on throw wrench.
Throw wrench, run after, pull them back, prybar smack…

By the way: in a power-precision buil the Tool Kit hits pretty dam hard (be it somewhat slow).

I realise this is just a listing of the obvious, but I’m only pointing out why I really love the Tool Kit.
And that ended up almost as ‘everything about it now’.

Erinyes.3596:

How many hours did you play it – are you seriously saying you didn’t get 60 Euros full of enjoyment out of the game? I bet if you divide the time you played by the cost of the game you played many, many hours for pennies.

Maybe look at it from that point of view!

he does, just above your post actually…

DegoLocc.5976:

Most players are in the game right now, playing the event, having fun, a minority is on the forums crying. Nothing new here to see in the world of MMO forums.

I’m off to play the game, have fun with all the forum PVP, lulz.

you have no idea of knowing what ‘most’ players are doing or what they like or dislike.

Everybody should stop speaking for others.

Forums are only a minority for those who disagree on what’s being said.

Just take the forums as feedback.

I think, especially since we have no way of knowing either way, that the forum is not representing the minority or the majority…

Since we don’t know, I safely assume the forum is a good representation of the community playing the game.

I see positive posts and I see negative posts.
So yes: I tend to think the tone of the forums is representative for the game, good or bad.

Phara Miu.2816:

We have a clear statement from Anet already.

Anet focus on PvE then WvW.
Dungeons crawlers get their gear then WvW players afterwards.
PvX guilds in WvW will dominate versus Pure WvW guilds that cannot or will not do PvE.

Clear statement from Anet, i do not need to know what the future holds or brings, i do not care for such promises anymore from no studio, be it Blizzard , Anet , Bioware , SOE.

Its back to Eve Online and soon PS2 for me and my guys.
Hope Anet doesnt get punished to hard for their decisions, they do not deserve it, but this patch showed me the way that WvW is just a arcade minigame with no real focus or dedication it needs to have to be competitive.

The word ‘competetive’ is simply out of place for WvW of course.

In order to be competetive it would not only have to equalise gear and traits, but also equalise entering numbers completely at any given point.

Not to mention the fact that entire guilds can still swap every friday if they want…

I would like WvW to be something close to competetive, or at least a fight on equal terms.

It’s very odd that they put pve guilds before even the dedicated WvW guilds who don’t do pve.
It’s bound to happen if you let gear be a factor of course.

If I see posts about leveling, there always comes a crowd of defenders saying how we should level slower, enjoy the ride, explore more, rush less, gear is only cosmetic, stop complaining about end game.

If I look at posts about WvW I see the opposite being said by defenders: level fast, rush to 80, gear up, WvW is end game so don’t expect something unless you work for it…

Maybe that’s why I would like it to follow pvp gear rules, instead of pve.
It tends to go directly opposite to what the idea for pve in this game should be…

aaron.7850:

Mine is Tarnished Coast and its the unofficial North American role-playing Server, our world also well known for its chill and playful community.

Piken Square, so I’m on the EU equivalent of that.

One of the nice parts of roleplaying crowds is that they tend to be helpfull and all over the place
It’s the least empty server in mid-zones that I found so far.

We seem to do in WvW as well, at least the short time I been here to judge.
Which is a cool bonus for me.

Only down side is the apparant lack of babies on this server, can’t figure out why…

Druitt.7629:

Hsinimod.5784:

I saw Elementalist got their spawned weapons to have default stats… I then wondered why our Kits (if they can’t use our stats and sigils) didn’t get the same treatment—to have default stats and sigils added to benefit the kit.

The Elementalist summoned weapons are way more niche than kits. You can’t switch in and out of a summoned weapon: drop it and it’s gone. (Enter water and it’s gone, too.) It has a charge limit and also a time limit. It locks out attunement switching, which is a core of the class.

So kits already have huge advantages over summoned weapons and aren’t really comparable. Not saying that kits don’t have to be addressed in some manner, just saying that it’s an apples and oranges comparison: different mechanics, different power, different usefulness, different coding.

swapping sigils already have an internal cooldown, so that should avoid engineering kit abuse.

I agree with you by the way: having the insta-swapping kits is a serious bonus that is not often mentioned.
It’s vital to my own playstyle, and I would rather keep that part than get sigils but with a cooldown on kit swapping to balance it.

I see no reason not to let sigils work on kits, but no matter what change they make: I want the instant swapping to stay!
(others may find it less important)

Sinfullysweet.4517:

Because! Speaking from a low level, nothing is more satisfying than messing with the heads of max level characters. Being max level would be boring if the journey through the war never happened. Being a recruit (low level) and rising in ranks (leveling) makes it all worthwhile. You go in, learn as you go, learn skills, tricks, etc. You just don’t go into war being a lieutenant.

This is all my own opinion.

Fun point of view at least

I can relate to that, don’t get me wrong.

John Lucier.5486:

Real wvwvw players would take the spvp gear system, and welcome it, as long as PVE skins can be transmuted, even if it still takes durability hits on death, that way they can keep to what they PAID for, and not be forced to login to a 2nd job.

I made apost about this very thing just now.
The replies so far suggest that I’m wrong for even bringing this up.

Glad to see you write this, so maybe i’m not alone in thinking that gear could be leveled out like in spvp.
It’s all pvp in the end… gear shouldn’t matter.

The ascended discussion would be void than too, since it wouldn’t be even usable aside from looks.

naphack.9346:

????
It’s absolutely NOT about gear.
The only reason you cannot compete with true 80’s who know what they are doing(my lev 50 guardian frequently frags 80’s) is that you don’t have that many trait points yet.
You could run around with a lev 80 char in full fine/masterwork armor and it wouldn’t matter much, except for some very close fights, you could duke it out with other 80’s without having to worry much about gear cause, honestly… The difference is not THAT big.
A naked char with full traits could kill a char with full exotics/Ascended and no points in traits(theoretical construct) any time. Go figure. The big impact comes from the traits for sure.

I realise it’s mostly the lack of traits.
But are you sure the gear doesn’t matter?

I was under the impression that the scaling didn’t negate gear differences that much.
Also: if gear isn’t a big difference, than why are people concerned over ascended gear in WvW?

Again: not talking about zerg fights, where basically only numbers matter.

Niim.9260:

I think it is fine. I wish they would remove the up arrow that highlights your low level, but otherwise I do not have a problem on any of my alts. I play differently, far more defensive, more zerg surfer, then I would at 80.

that’s what I do in practice too.
Play more defensive on a lower level, because in a fight you are very unlikley to kill anyone. Not without your traits and in that gear…

But that basically means that this form of pvp isn’t balanced at all.
It is all about gear, even when the numbers are more or less equal.

Of course as a whole WvW is about numbers first, and if the numbers match up more or less, it starts about being organised.

But in smaller fights I always wonder how this form of pvp can be so much about gear and level.
It feels like it’s a step down from their intentions in spvp.
So that puzzles me yes.

Much has to do with the fact that I find WvW too zergy, and I prefer the smaller skirmishes.
To do that you need to level up first, unless you have a group that is willing to ‘carry’ you of course.

Servers could bring skill, and maybe numbers…
Not really necessary to include ‘gear’ in that equation.

I understand your argument, but it’s not even that the servers bring their ‘pve’ values in terms of gear and gold and levels… It’s not the raiders bringing it, it’s the WvWvW guilds bringing all of that.

WvW guilds tend to be pvp guilds more than pveraiding guilds.
So that keeps the question: if it’s pvp played by moslty pvp guilds and players… than why not equalise?

WvW would not be any more, or less, boring because of scaled gear.
I don’t see the logic in that.

Spvp is sometimes called boring, but never because of the gear…

I forgot to mention: you’re right that grenades needed some nerfing in WvW.
But I agree with the OP that that should have come with buffs to the other engineer damage.
We got a few fixes, but hardly any damage ones.

krixis.9538:

well if u ever got to play a grenade engie at 1500 range when you your team attacks the enemy that is turtleing at the point, then u will understand why the dmg was reduced. it was like chucking nuke grenades.

besides who cares its only pvp thats affected and not pve. just roll a warrior for pvp if your that upset.

I think the argument of rerolling to make it fine is an incredibly useless one.
If we’re discussing engineer pvp it hardly matters that there are other professions too.

And you don’t reroll that easy in WvW.
For some reason that form of pvp obeyes to pve leveling rules instead of the ones proclaimed for GW2 pvp.
Would be simpler if it was equalised like spvp…

In the end you can reroll that warrior just as fast in pve… so your argument sort of falls apart on that one.

Hymnosi.5928:

Bombs have a smoke/fire field, grenades have a frost/poison field. Since 30 in firepower synergizes very well (vulnerability stacks out the wazoo) with both, I run both. Also the toolkit switch spell effect is really neat.

Oh, I very well understand why you would run both bombs as grenades!
They synergise quite well indeed, and benefit from a few important overlapping traits (just like FT and EG do).

The only reason I never pick both, is because I made my mind up about my ‘base’ kits.
And that only leaves me room for one

What is the reasoning behind WvW not having the same equal gear as spvp?

I realise you get scaled to 80, but let’s be honest: it doesn’t make you as strong as an 80, not by far.

Not only because of traits, but also because of gear.

I was rather surprised to find that gear mattered in WvWvW, since I consider it to be a form of pvp.
Even if it has tons of pve, it still is basically a pvp format.

Why am I forced to level and gear to 80 to do this form of pvp, and not for spvp?

So why should the gear matter?
Bit odd for GW2 pvp…

This is an old question of course, but it suddenly became more relevant with the ascendent gear of course.

To avoid all issues with either levels or any gear, I think the logical solution would be to equalise gear and traits like in spvp.
Why isn’t this the case?

What am I missing that warrants this imbalance?

In WoW I played a Survival hunter in pvp since vanilla.
People who are familiar with WoW and hunters, know that means I’m either stupid or stubborn. Or both…

I didn’t reroll in WoW, I gave up on it.

Likewise I’m not going to reroll my engineer carrying 4 kits.
I’ll stick to it till I give up on the game.

Why?
Simple: because I’m still either stubborn or stupid. Or both.

Have always played like that, but never took bombs and grenades together, since I don’t want to go without elixir gun.

So usually I take Med Kit, elixir gun and Tool Kit standard, and than either flamethrower, bombs or grenades.

If flamethrower I take Juggernaut, if bombs than their healing trait in Inventions.
For grenades those 30 pointts seem best to take grenadier of course.

That’s why I stick with Med Kit, Elixir Gun and Tool Kit. To have a solid base of versatility I can rely on in any of my 3 builds. There’s a ton of utility in those 3.
On top of my shield and pistol for me.

I always take 20 Alchemy and 20 Tools to trait up my Tool Kit and general kits.
It differes somewhat on the exact traits, depending on my mood.
Often Kit Refinement and Regen on kits, sometimes 15% on FT and EG.
I really like the Tool Kit trait too. The criple bonus is nice, on top of a 16 sec cooldown on my block and 12 on my confusion…
But as I said: the traits can differ.

Picking either FT, Bombs or Grenades totally changes my playstyle by itself.
So it’s good to have my ‘base’ kits always handy.

My favourite would be Flamethrower… IF they would finally bother to fix it.

Brinson.7289:

They made 5v5 because thats what is used in tournaments.
Randoms leave and it sucks but they don’t need to waste any more time changing room sizes when there are bigger fish to fry.
I’d like to say the official answer is “Suck it up and wait for customs.”

surely a penalty for leaving wouldn’t upset any balance or future plans?
A simple ‘deserter debuff’ could go a long way, especially when coupled with an afk report debuff in case you stay but do nothing…

Nothing all that time-consuming to implement.

I love having the option to 5v5 now, and it’s rahter nice they kept it alongside of 8v8.
But it’s very clear that a 5v5 balanced match is very vulnerable to anyone leaving.

I always had an odd love for the Tool Kit, so those buffs make me smile.

The sad part is that I am seriously thinking of giving up my flamethrower since they didn’t adress that at all.

In terms of fun factor, I play my engineer for the kits, that’s the main draw for me.
I love having a ton of options (was playing a hunter in WoW which has about the most keybinds there, so I wanted something with a lot of skills to pick from).

So yes: I expected more from this patch, aside my Tool Kit being better now there isn’t much else for me…

Aga.8641:

Wow….Just wow. Everyone was crying for 5vs5 hot joins, now we have them all you can do is QQ? kittening ridiculous.

actually no: people are NOT complaining because they added 5v5 hot join.
Everyone in this particular thread is saying they like it.

People are complaining because it is implemented without any measure against leaving, and the fact you don’t always join up in an evened out match to start.

That is a major difference!

The idea is good, the working out needs work.
That’s what this feedback is for.

Only one post is actual QQ, and sorry to say it’s yours…

Sennar.2309:

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it,
that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game.
Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet.

you know what the worst part of this is for me?

The simple fact that this idea must have been ready before launch.
No way they put this whole thing together in between haloween and Christmas…

It’s not even that they cave in to the ‘WoW crowd’ now, they must have known all along.

It’s a bit like merging in the non-merged thread, which is bound to follow

I’m mostly surprised they couldn’t come up with anything different.

And one other thing: this isn’t a small thing to design. The basic plans for this must have been laid out before launch…
I don’t like that thought.

I’ll give an example to show I’m not just being difficult here:

1. you can state that the game should offer the same rewards in dungeons for playing a lot, as it does for playing only a few hours a week.
(just as a random example)

2. But when you claim that this should be the case because that’s what ‘casuals’ want, you immediately face the problem that many who call themselves casual actually disagree.

Point 1. is a healthy discussion.
Point 2. causes a whole discussion on itself, clutters point 1. and very often ends in nothing constructive because of the simple fact that ‘casual’ is such an individual notion.

Nayru.4537:

Kimbald.2697:

what’s the deal with deciding what is casual for others?

And even worse: starting from your own limited definition, force the statements about this game being ‘for casuals’ to fit your own preferences?

I can twist every statement about this game being for casuals in such a way that it would only fit my own view of ‘casual’.
But what would be the point?

Don’t speak for others, it’s hard enough to make your own opinion clear…

This is a discussion. Don’t like it? Don’t read it.

Mine was an opinion on the OP’s statement. So it’s part of the discussion.

It’s a valid point of view to say that it’s not up to single players to decide what ‘casual’ is for others.
Even more so if those players link their own definition to what this game should or should not do towards catering for those casuals.

This discussion clearly shows the concept of ‘casual’ is highly individual, much more than the concept ‘hardcore’ for example.
Simply because ‘casual’ implies that players are making personal choices on what they do or not in a game.

So going from this fact that it is an individual notion, I think it’s very directive to start making conclusions on how this game caters for casuals or not. Or worse: how it should cater for them…

Anything else?

Defektive.7283:

This is the most important PvP Change of all time period ever.

+1

Look at it this way:

1. pvp rewards are cosmetic, based on rank.

2. In pvp battles you are colored and hardly make out your gear except a hat.

3. Only place where you really see your pvp rewards is Heart of the Mists

4. In HotM your most important gear interface is… the locker!

Step 1-4 are full proof that this actually IS the most important change in pvp!

You have the gear stats progression other games have.

Than you have the cosmetic ‘progression’ or incentives GW2 has, as an alternative.

What puzzles me is that when the cosmetic incentives proved a bit too weak, they couldn’t come up with anything else except falling back to a minor form of stats progression.

Lack of creativity is odd, coming from a company making the most creative game designs in MMO land…

related:

why is the preview of the pvp locker based on the gear we wear in pve instead of what we wear in pvp?
Bit odd if you want to match pieces…

what’s the deal with deciding what is casual for others?

And even worse: starting from your own limited definition, force the statements about this game being ‘for casuals’ to fit your own preferences?

I can twist every statement about this game being for casuals in such a way that it would only fit my own view of ‘casual’.
But what would be the point?

Don’t speak for others, it’s hard enough to make your own opinion clear…

I agree the locker interface feels rather ancient MMO like…
but to call it the most important change for spvp has put a smile on my face. A green smile…

GW2 was not released in a vacuum.

They knew exactly what the pvp in other games had to offer.
Comparing to what games offered at their launch years ago is a weak argument.

GW2 was sold as a pvp game.
For that claim I expected it to offer at least as much pvp variety as GW1 now, not as when GW1 launched… (or WoW for that matter, or any other much older game)

So yes, it’s been little over 2 months.
But that’s not the point. It’s about what it had to offer to launch with. That is where it is lacking.
If you sell GW2 as a pvp game, than at least offer enough to stand up against the CURRENT pvp other MMO’s have to offer…

Just for the record: that thief killing you before you react, what do you think he’s doing?
He’s spamming a rotation, just like your claim about pve rotations in other games…

In those other games: when you interrupt that player doing a pve rotation with a healer behind him… he can’t kill you anymore either.
And often it is more realistic to interrupt that other player in that other game, than it is to interrupt the thief in GW2.

GW2 pvp isn’t superior to the pvp of other MMO’s.
Maybe better than some, maybe worse than others.

Arheundel.6451:

Those who are complaining are those unable to leave the old habits from other MMO, where they could stand and spamm the same rotation over and over again while somebody else heal them.

this is your first argument… and it’s completely biased and wrong.

I can accept that you want to defend GW2 pvp, but if you have to do it by spouting utter nonsense first than there isn’t much to discuss.

Two things are wrong with this paragraph:
1. you have a completely wrong image of pvp in other games.
2. you assume that people complaining about GW2 pvp are doing this because they want to spam their pve rotations?

Even with healers in other games, the pvp is still way more dynamic than you suggest.
If anything than GW2 is the ‘spamming’ pvp, because everybody just unleashes all their short cooldowns as much as they can.
Is GW2 pvp dynamic? Yes, to some degree.
Is pvp in some other MMO’s dynamic? Hell yes.
Your statement is false and biased, no other way around it.

As for the second part: it is not up to you to decide why people complain about pvp in GW2!
Maybe start by reading what people write when they complain.
Some will complain about the dynamics, but many will complain about other things.
GW2 players are very capable of making a judgement on GW2 pvp based on what they see in GW2 itself.

What makes you think YOU are the only one capable of making a correct judgement of GW2 pvp?
What gives you the right to decide why people complain?

I’ll tell you one reason why I think GW2 pvp is lacking of it’s promise:

GW2 pvp has very little diversity and variety!

Not only in the forms of pvp, but also in the fighting itself.
As soon as the fight gets bigger than 2 or 3 players involved, it just becomes a spamfest of random abilities. Not always, but very often.

And this is coming from someone who never did pvp by spamming a pve rotation with a healer behind me…
This simply isn’t a valid strategy in pvp. So don’t think this is what people expect when they complain about GW2 pvp…

showatt.9413:

fixit.7189:

Wow, this thread is a mess. They are cramming anything related to this topic right into this one and making it even more confusing than it already is. What real dev is going to even bother reading it now? lol.

It’s actually best that they don’t.

honestly most people here are all about GW1 and wanting to make the game exclusive to GW1 fans.

They don’t want to game to reach out to a new market – instead they’re happy to close their eye and pretend the game isn’t dying because the lack of progression.

Gw2 is nothing like Gw1, which is why the “diehard” gw1 fans have already gone back to gw1.

Gw2 is a game on its own, and it has attracted not only gw1 fans but also fans of other MMO. to satisfy everyone’s need, compromises have to be made. It’s really sad how most of the community doesn’t seem to understand that.

your interpretation, maybe of the particular tread you were in.

But MANY posts are not about GW1 at all…

That is exactly why they should NOT merge. Because of what you do: you draw a conclusion based upon your own thread you were discussing, while it’s not necessarily true for all the other threads merged with that.

Think that’s not a very uncommon feeling.

There is a wonderfull thing about pvp that you are missing though: it completely doesn’t matter one single bit!

I don’t mean pvp as such doesn’t matter. Play it if you want, or don’t… but that’s not what I’m talking about.

It doesn’t matter if you die!

If you start in spvp 8v8. Do you seriously think it matters to the game if you die each time or not?
Do you think it matters if you can’t kill anyone or not?

In WvWvW even more: do you really think anyone will notice if and how you die?
In the midst of zergs, invisable player groups because of slow rendering, uneven fights every corner…

That’s the great part: it doesn’t matter at all!

That’s where you start, at that very notion:

It doesn’t matter if you die!

I do WvW on a lvl 9 engineer for the moment. I have NO traits. I have lvl 5 gear since that’s the last pve I did on that one.
Sure it ‘scales’… there’s a joke.
I am incredibly WEAK. I die all the bloody time.

Guess what: rule nr 1.
It doesn’t matter…

If you know you’re going to lose, you learn to play more safe by nature.
You’ll start running away sooner and think ‘hey, how odd: I’m still alive.’
And you’ll return and go fight again.

Let’s face it: you will die. You will lose.
So what’s stopping you?
You already have the fear, you already paid your toll. Now go collect the price for it: having fun dying…
You already have the uneasy feeling, now go and find the funny moments.

It’s that simple: it doesn’t matter if you die, and frankly no one cares

Only after a while, as you might start enjoying it and start doing it more.
When you get the hang of it, when you get experience in it.
Maybe than you’ll start to do more serious pvp and it will matter if you die or not.

But don’t worry about that part now.
You’ll get there when you get there.

For now just ealise that it doesn’t matter.

If you die and die, stop running in the first than.
Practice not fighting, but staying alive.
We both know you won’t be killing anyone anytime soon, right?
So stop ‘fighting’ and start ‘surviving’.

Run with others and help them with conditions, boons, your minr pathetic damage on their target.
The enemy will spot you for the free kill that you are, and they WILL come for you.
So when they do: run, dodge, buff yourself, protect yourself.
See WHERE you run, to who you run, HOW you run.
But just run.

Each time you survive, that is your victory.
You are bound to die, the challenge is to drag that out as long as you can.

That’s how you learn pvp.
The killing comes later, that’s utterly irrelevant for now.

Corvindi.5734:

I’m all for Arenanet doing things to make people happy, I like a populated game. But not when making some people happy messes with my style of game play, which is WvW. If they change WvW to the sPvP system of gear equalization I’ll shut up and go away happy.

would be soooo freaking simple:

WvW is pvp, so just apply the same rules as for spvp.
Equal gear, equal traits… and no pve gear progression could ever cause imbalance in this game’s pvp.

Flynch.6034:

Kimbald.2697:

Flynch.6034:

Kimbald.2697:

Of course we don’t know all the details yet.

Of course a lot of these posts are irrational.

But still it’s good that the uproar is as loud as it is.
Simply because that gives a very strong signal.

The dev’s will filter what they can use, no need to do their job for them.

It definitely gives a strong signal that the game is very much alive, i’ll give you that And it also gets across the point that we don’t want a forced gear treadmill for the most part.

But if people are screaming at the top of their lungs at a passing plane, when it turns out to be a seagull, then people start looking a bit cuckoo.

Not more than when it would turn out to be a plane after all…
People screaming at a plane are pretty cuckoo to me

The question would remain: what makes these people scream at a plane?
Telling them to stop shouting will not give you the answer.
Listening to what they shout might shed some light on their motivation.

Heh yeah, or they could just turn to you and talk normally about what’s bothering them, without everyone nearby having to wear ear-mufflers ^^

the OP tells people to stop, it isn’t asking what is wrong.

For those plane shouting fruitcakes: that’s exactly what I would do yes. Just ask them, while they’re shouting probably.

It’s the devs that should come over and ask what’s wrong, and discuss things.
Let them handle the shouting, we want them to be disturbed by the noise. The fact that the OP or anyone else is disturbed by it, is rather irrelevant in the matter.