Guild Wars 2

Ignoring the rest which is ultimately irrelevant (though I replied to such on reddit):

Odeboy.1243:

Wetlands is, in general, a wet place, as the name tells. Tarnished coast apart from Arbor Bay is not a swampy, wet place. It’s a jungle. And besides, what could possibly deny that the destroyers (or other dragon minions) don’t exist outside of Tyria? They are not limited by mountains or seas.

So you’re going to argue that a landscape we have no indication of how it looks now – due to not seeing it in GW2 – cannot be a wetlands, despite 250 years passing and a tsunami passing through it, because it wasn’t such in GW1, 250 years ago?

I never said destroyers cannot be outside Tyria. But the wording explicitly states “the wetlands” not “The Wetlands” and it explicitly states “in southwest of Tyria” aka “in southwestern Tyria” aka within the Tyrian continent.

Your argument is stuck on the premise of how the Tarnished Coast looked in GW1, yet the very book – the foundation of your argument – outright states that it is of modern writing, around GW2’s time, and we are discussing places we cannot see in GW2.

wouw.5837:

I remember reading that Palawa Joko was fighting Risen on his northern border, but now Zaithan is dead why don’t we hear more about him?

I though the OoW still had contact with Elona, so if Joko Ono was “invading” the Crystal Desert, shouldn’t they know about it?

1. Most important thing to keep in mind is that the risen didn’t just drop dead after Zhaitan’s defeat. They continued to wander Orr and elsewhere, remaining as active as ever before. So Zhaitan’s defeat wouldn’t mean Elona’s northern border suddenly freed up – it just meant that the risen there would no longer get reinforcements.
2. Secondly, even after killing all the risen, there’s the matter of establishing footholds and progressing in a weary way. Unless he got information by way of the Order of Whispers, he has no method to ascertain the situation in Tyria. For all Joko knows, after a hundred years of fighting dragon minions, all that’s left of Tyria is a big dragon-infested crater.
3. Thirdly, you have to keep in mind just how far south the northern Elonian border is. Let me put it in a general sense to grasp: It’s not on the in-game map. So there’s quite some distance for Joko to spread, all the while establishing outposts and trade routes to these outposts. It’s not as simple as waypointing into Lion’s Arch from Elona by spending 10 silver a soldier and invading (given that waypoints are a recent establishment by asura and as such Elona has none). In Joko’s case, he has to actually establish footholds. And there’s a lot of desert between civilized Tyria and Elona’s northern border. Not to mention the potential of Kralkatorrik in the way.

But if you want the real reason: because ArenaNet has effectively put all storylines on hold after the initial game. The charr-human treaty has been at a standstill for 3 years; the human-centaur war at a standstill in Harathi for 3 years; Caudecus’ antics have been going on the same as ever for 3 years; the Flame Legion are no better or worse off than when they joined the Molten Alliance 2 years ago. Etc. etc.

The only plots furthered are those touched by the Living World, and Joko is not one of them.

Odeboy.1243:

I haven’t read the books so I didn’t know that. But remember that the Asuras were driven from their underground cities by the destroyers, but apart from some story missions (like the one you mentioned), they didn’t appear on the surface at all.

They are on the surface at the hive which is destroyed in the G.O.L.E.M. mission until you complete that mission. They had definitely breached the surface – and had done so across Tyria.

Odeboy.1243:

And regarding the wetlands, there was a river running through Alcazia Tangle, but apart from it that area wasn’t very swampy, cf. it to Arbor bay were the Pale Tree resides.

Magus Stones then, which is still near Rata Sum, which is what the Destroyer of Life was assaulting. Still, it’s clearly referencing the Destroyer of Life, as it is written in the timeframe of Edge of Destiny.

Odeboy.1243:

Edit 1: If the Order of Whispers still maintains connections to Elona in GW2, why not to other areas? It’s completely possible that the book was written by a member of the Order of Whispers.

The Order of Whispers didn’t make that book, the Durmand Priory did, and they don’t have contact with other lands

And if the person who wrote it was from both, then the person is giving away that they’re a spy within the Durmand Priory working for the Order of Whispers – a huge no, no for a spy organization.

And gain there’s the capitalization – “the wetlands” not “The Wetlands”. Also, pay attention to syntax. The line is: “As of this writing, his minions, known as destroyers, plague the wetlands in the southwest of Tyria.” “in the southwest of Tyria” aka “in southwestern Tyria” – that’s the Tarnished Coast.

It explicitly states that the destroyers are in Tyria, not outside of Tyria.

As I said on the Reddit thread of the same topic, the book refers to the invasion by the Destroyer of Life seen during Edge of Destiny.

The book also says “the wetlands” not “The Wetlands”. Proper versus non-proper noun. The name of the place the destroyers were showing up was not called The Wetlands. Their geography is just of wetlands. Which is Alcazia Tangle.

Edit: also, given how they decided to squeeze Mordremoth in the map rather than extend it, that A net will be keeping us in continental Tyria for as long as possible.

Edit2: Furthermore, the book was written after Kralkatorrik rose. Tyria has had no external contact for a century before the book was written. It is impossible for the writer to know what is happening in the largely unknown Sunrise Crest.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

I don’t really remember such a statement, but I remember they did confirm that Lost Shores takes place after the death of Zhaitan and thus after the PS. And while Lost Shores wasn’t technically part of the LS, all of S1 took place after Lost Shores. So that argument would have never made sense to begin with.

It was a back-and-forth thing.

Matthew Medina made a forum post saying Lost Shores is post-Zhaitan, but as they made Flame and Frost, they said that the Living World would be “taking place at the time you personally are”. Which means that if you play a character who didn’t beat the PS, then Zhaitan was alive while the Molten Alliance was going nuts, but if you play a character who did complete the PS, then Zhaitan was dead.

It, as you said, never made sense to begin with (like other odd storytelling stuff like the calendar retcon). But that was their stance.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Aside from that I would agree that Logan would make sense as Trahearne’s successor, but unless he moves the Pact HQ to DR, that would mean he would be away from Jennah for long times. That wouldn’t really fit his “protective” personality. I know he has gotten better over the PS, dungeon storymodes and LS and he isn’t quite the lap dog anymore, but moving on to Marshall of the Pact, might be a little too much. So I would still favour Rytlock over him.

At the end of Chapter 3 of the human personal story, Logan comes to acknowledge that being overprotective is just as dangerous as not being protective at all.

At the end of Caudecus’ Manor story mode – though it’s poorly portrayed – he is effectively banished from Kryta until the Elder Dragon threat has been dealt with. The ruling isn’t official, but Jennah basically kicked him onto the curb. “Go kill Elder Dragons or don’t expect to get in my bed” basically. This is why he joins Caithe at Twilight Arbor, assaults the Citadel of Flame, and looks for Zojja at Crucible of Eternity before taking on Zhaitan.

During the PS and dungeon stories, Logan is basically taken out of that overprotective personality. With the exception of his showing during Queen’s Jubilee, after Caudecus’ Manor we only see him with DE and/or with the Pact. He doesn’t even stand near the Seraph who go to work with the Pact during S2, let alone show up for the world summit or is even conversed with to talk to Jennah (unlike Eir with Knut and Rytlock with Smodur), which rather implies that unlike the others he’s out and about more.

Out of all of DE, Logan is the only one who’s not been indicated to wait for the Pact’s next campaign in their racial city. Even though we never see Zojja in S1 or S2, we hear of her remaining in Rata Sum via letters or Taimi. Logan was only in DR from Flame and Frost to Queen’s Jubilee for all we know. He didn’t even show up when the Crown Pavilion was opened for Festival of the Four Winds.

THAT SAID, I fear that ArenaNet will go the pandering-to-vocals route, again, and make the PC the Pact Marshal. Despite the whole “the leader of the Pact must be impartial” and “the PC joined one of the orders”.

Either that, or they’ll remove the Pact from being the primary force and turn the light to the Guild Initiative.

Tentonhammr.7849:

You just don’t want to wait.

Key thing here.

HoT isn’t a game full of grind. It’s a game full of long term goals.

But people want things now, so they try to get those long term goals as if they were short term goals. This results in the sensation that the game is ‘full of grind’.

Having both, GWAMM took more effort. In fact, I didn’t even get GWAMM until last Halloween, but had already almost completed 50/50 when the HoM calculator came out (and I was working on GWAMM back then).

Danikat.8537:

I think GWAMM is more likely to indicate that you’ve actually played at least most of GW1, whereas Champion of the Gods is largely about collecting items, you have to complete some content but it’s possible to do it without finishing any of the campaigns for example.

Getting 50 points in the HoM cannot be done without completing any campaign. It even requires doing hard mode fully in most cases.

Unless you manage to max multiple PvP titles which is just insane even when GW1 was wholly active – aka is even more work than doing the campaigns.

It’s possible to get to 30/50 without completing campaigns, if you manage to max things like lucky/unlucky, treasure hunter, wisdom. But even if those are just ‘collection’ titles, they’re still tedious. More so than completing a campaign by far.

hotcarl.8621:

I decided to get there ten minutes early today and, after waiting for 8 minutes or so, she spawned near the one waypoint I didn’t have on the character I was on. So I went to the closest one I did have, and by the time I got there (literally 30 seconds later), she was dead.

I’ve got to say this is your fault. Reason is that if you were waiting for 8 minutes, you could EASILY map complete Southsun, thus having all waypoints.

Secondly, Karka Queen has only four spawn points – one per outpost for the meta – and two of them are very close to each other. Most people wait at the outpost without a waypoint and use either Kiel’s Outpost Waypoint or Camp Karka Waypoint if she doesn’t spawn outside Steampipe Steading.

That said, I really, really want Anet to revamp Southsun.

More events, some vistas and hero challenges, and a better vendor system that borrows off of Dry Top with exchanging tiers for “camps controlled” with five vendor settings (no camps, 1 camp, 2 camps, 3 camps, and all camps under control).

And altering KQ’s mechanics a lot to put her on par to Tequatl – since she’s in the “hardcore world boss” category anyways.

Have each armor removing animation be its own health bar, and give each health bar different mechanics. Make use of the breakbar.

• First health bar: She’s a tank, requiring eggs to be thrown at her to reduce her toughness (using the 50 buff), and the environemtnal weapon spread across the island (add more at boss spawn points) are only weapons that affect her.
• Second health bar: Still high toughness, as only a little armor was removed, but now you can damage her. Her armor rating sets to a specific amount (at 25 stacks for the egg buff) with eggs to be tossed at her.
• Third health bar: She becomes stationary but succeptible to all attacks regularly now. Her breakbar becomes active as she spews eggs that spawn both hatchlings and bring in young karka (attempting to zerg the players).
• Fourth health bar: Switches between stationary and mobile modes, summoning elite adult karka to defend her (number of elites scaling with players).
• Final health bar: She becomes a glass canon – high damage output but very low toughness and health. Easiest to beat but if not beaten quickly she can easily wipe out the zerg of players.

Each health bar goes to full, and during transitions she gains determined for 3 seconds (so that conditions do not continue damaging through the evade).

Aaron Ansari.1604:

He had personal connections, and several of them did pay off- but we’re talking a blacksmith who can help make weapons, or a scout who can poke around a flooded temple. Nothing political.

I’d say being respected by the three Orders’ leaders and personally knowing several of their high ranking members counts as “political connections”.

He also, somehow and without our or the biconics’ help, got the Iron Legion to make a formal agreement for assistance (the Pact assists against the Flame Legion, the Iron Legion sends troops and tanks – which makes their role in the World Summit a bit odd).

BuddhaKeks.4857:

I said it before in another thread, Eir would have been the best successor imo. She was well respected, had experience fighting dragons, had experience leading in combat (at least on the small scale), had connections to powerful people and had no other commitment. But alas she died instead.
The other parts of DE make no good candidates, I think. Logan is too busy with the Queen, I doubt you could pry him away from her. Rytlock has duties with the charr and also isn’t presentable enough. Zojja is too immature, she is smart but she wouldn’t make a good leader. And Caithe is too shifty, not the kind of person that inspires loyalty in her troops. Out of all of them Rytlock is probably the most likely, but then people would start accusing him of being fur-jesus again.

I’d argue that Logan makes a good candidate. He has military and leadership experience, and has sworn before to fight the Elder Dragons – the only reason he seemed to have gone back to Kryta was because of ArenaNet’s attempt at storytelling the Living World (“can take place before or after the end of the personal story”) which they later redacted with the finale of S1 and intro of S2 (“all of LW takes place after PS”).

Thornwolf.9721:

Krak wont happen until they want to go to elonia, due to him battling (( in the lore only thus far)) palwa joko who rules all of elonia.

Typos aside, it’s actually never stated that Kralkatorrik is fighting Palawa Joko.

It was, in fact, Zhaitan who was fighting Joko.

Thornwolf.9721:

I think he will be the last dragon to fight due to this, likewise with jormag we have to have our pc break his fang which would show its time to fight it.

That’s not required at all. It’s just what the norn use to keep other norn from rushing off to their deaths.

Thornwolf.9721:

Honestly it might be primodus due to the fact that he HAS not made an appearance yet, and yet has had the MOST impact on the story.

In GW2, Primordus actually has the least impact. Jormag has the most aside from the dragons we killed. In GW1 and GW2 combined, I’d still say it’s Jormag. Like Primordus, Jormag’s minions in the form of Drakkar and the Nornbear (aka Svanir) were seen in GW1.

Thornwolf.9721:

Logically he might rise and come to attack us, probably coming out somewhere either in the fire islands or even mount malestrom, perhaps even the deldimor front depending on where.

There’s no relation between Primordus and the Ring of Fire island chain. I don’t get why people keep thinking there is.

Thornwolf.9721:

Likewise destroyers have been poping up everywhere since launch, tons of hearts dedicated to fighting them hell more them than even the Risen.

Uh…

There are only four or so hearts directly tied to Destroyers. About double that in events, and only one storyline chapter related to destroyers.

There are about seven hearts dealing with risen outside heavy risen areas such as Bloodtide Coast, Sparkfly Fen, and Mount Maelstrom in which most hearts in the maps relate to risen (there being at least a dozen hearts per map). And probably triple that for events, and the entire personal story related to risen more or less.

Even branded have more related hearts than the destroyers, and icebrood definitely have more.

Thornwolf.9721:

Plus with cantha might come tengu playable races,

I don’t get this mentality. Only two tribes of tengu were ever related to Cantha, and there were three who lived in continental Tyria (two of which along with at least one from Cantha going to the Dominion of Winds), and it’s said tengu were spread across the world until the formation of the Dominion of Winds.

Tengu haven’t had influence in Cantha or with Cantha for 100 years.

Thornwolf.9721:

tengu due to them wishing to return home

Their home is the Dominion of Winds. They don’t wish to return to Cantha and even if such did, that’d be a small number because not even a third of the tengu population came from Cantha.

Thornwolf.9721:

Primordus will be for the asuran and be thick in lore for them, and jormag will be for the norn thus filled with lore for them. Krak will be for both charr with the humans being more invested in primordus due to having ancestors who fought the destroyers before.

Don’t be so sure. I mean, Zhaitan sat on ancient human homeland. How much thick human lore did we get? Very little. We got as much sylvari stuff from Orr than we got human stuff, just about.

EdwinLi.1284:

The Foggy body of the Mist is always in the distance and even when we jump into it we are not in it for long to the point we end up back in the open area that isn’t covered by the Fog.

That whole being teleported part is pure mechanics. You’re still “in the Mists” when you’re in Fractals, PvP maps, WvW maps, or Mad Realm maps. Just like you’re still “in the Mists” when you’re in Underworld, Fissure of Woe, Realm of Torment, etc. in GW1, despite there being no literal mist in sight.

And that’s the important part: until GW2, there was no such thing as mist inside The Mists.

Yet you define that as “being in the Mists”. We were very much in the Mists in GW1 dozens of times. The afterlives are within the Mists, and that includes the Mad Realm which we see no mist in either GW1 or GW2 – as well as the GW1 only locations of Underworld, Fissure of Woe, Realm of Torment, and The Rift.

You need to separate ‘mist’ from ‘The Mists’ because they are not the same thing.

EdwinLi.1284:

However, as I said for now this is how I can only interpret how strong exposure happens unless Anet provides a detailed explanation on how a person becomes a Revenant which sadly I doubt they may not provide in a while due to how messy it may get if they don’t get Revenant’s lore right.

They already did, as linked above and as linked by Aaron.

It just wasn’t in-game, which is a fault on ArenaNet but that doesn’t mean it is non-existent.

While there are points I wholeheartedly agree with, there are points I wholeheartedly disagree with for one simple reason:

The OP is thinking of GW2 as a traditional MMO. It is not.

You cannot go into GW2 thinking of playing it like you’d play a traditional MMO. If you do, you will get bored fast.

The problem with the game truly came in with the NPE. ArenaNet looked at those players who came to GW2 thinking it’d be like a traditional MMO, wanting a traditional MMO, and left when they saw it wasn’t that and asked them “what’s wrong with the game” and made the changes they suggested but not the problems that were actually wrong with the game.

Doing this has only succeeded in making GW2 some kind of half-breed of what it could be and what it shouldn’t be.

And GW2 has just been steadily going down the path of being turned into a traditional MMO – all for the sake of profits, no doubt. Of more players, and more revenue.

All the while ignoring the actual issues – which yes, the OP does mention. World bosses are a bore, point of doing dungeons have been nurfed repeatedly, and ambient world mapping has little replay value due to all foes being effectively the same.

Heart of Thorns fixes these issues… within itself. The issues remain in the older content, which is what new players will see first, and what most old players see more often (due to there being more of it).

ArenaNet has two bad habbits:

1) Trying to make GW2 into a game that draws the most players and revenue.
2) Ignoring old content entirely unless it has game/economy breaking bugs/exploits.

Fix those habits, and the game improves exponentially over time.

Uh… you need to play or replay the story. Cuz Faolain dies. She is killed and her corpse taken away by the Vinetooth before it assaults Eir. Where it is then carved into the Vinetooth-Faolain hybrid that is Mordremoth's champion.

Anet said in an interview that the sylvari can be cloned

That’s only talking about the three mordrem guard commanders. The three we fight repeatedly in the Dragon’s Stand meta.

In fact, Modremoth’s last words don’t seem to me the words of someone defeated forever. Or am I wrong?

“What have you done?” is the words of someone not defeated forever?

We’ll see a real battle with Modremoth (the dragon, rather than the obese-crocodile-version)

Dragon’s Stand meta is the “real battle with Mordremoth”. The Mouth of Mordremoth is Mordremoth’s physical body.

EdwinLi.1284:

We are not making direct contact with the Mists in Fractal and Mist War but only the lands created by them.

The Mists is not an entity. Go to the PvP lobby and look at the edges. Go to Edge of the Mists and go to the edges. Go to Fractal lobby and go to the edge.

That is the Mists.

PvP, WvW, Fractals, Mad King’s Realm (halloween instances), and even one of the early norn storylines all take place within the Mists. The “lands created by them” is also within the Mists and interacting with these lands – these fractals of worlds – is interacting with the Mists.

Sorry, but the claim that players in GW2 do not interact with the Mists is a downright foolhardy lie. Now, it is possible for a player to never do so – just like it is possible to never do so in GW1 – but that would require not doing a specific storyline as a norn, never doing WvW or PvP, not participating in Halloween activities, and not doing Fractals.

EdwinLi.1284:

When I say direct exposure I mean actual contact with the Mist’s fog like body which characters in the game call the Mist.

That’s not correct in any way. Furthermore, PvP lobby, Fractal lobby, and Edge of the Mists all allow jumping into the literal mist.

The Mists is protomatter that sometimes take the appearance of mist. It is the origin of all things and houses the afterlives as well as fractals of worlds (what we use for PvP as well as the dungeon named after these fractals).

If you go into the Mad Realm, that is definitely within the Mists – the entire lore about it is stating that it is since the beginning of GW lore. But there are no mist-like fog around it. Just endless vastness of space by appearance. Realm of Torment was the same.

EdwinLi.1284:

However, I don’t think making contact with the lands created by the Mist would count as exposure since the Mist itself seems to keep a distance from those lands it manifests.

“making contact with the lands created by the Mists” (not Mist) is the only way to stand on something within the Mists.

Your very argument demands that Rytlock had no contact with the Mists.

Wrong forum. Better suited for Guild Wars 2 Discussion.

Kalavier.1097:

Eh, Sylvari – Asura isn’t as big as Charr -humans was.

Scarlet’s actions really only caused anti-Sylvari feelings within Lion’s Arch itself, and I’d be disappointed if Anet suddenly has everybody and their grandmother know about the true origins of Sylvari without any build up. The first REAL wave of news about that after all would include the Pact soldiers explicitly told by Laranthir/Commander to spread the word that “Not all Sylvari are evil/belong to the dragon!”

However, I’d imagine the military and government heads would learn the news (BOTH SIDES) first from said wounded being evacuated from the jungle. I’d agree to interest in that side of things as long as it’s not pure “SYLVARI ARE EVILS! HATE!”. If the commander is involved, the aspect of “Mordremoth is DEAD” should be brought up.

The first wave of news predates the Commander even going into Magus Falls.

The prologue for HoT confirmed that the mordrem invasion weekend is canon lore, and during which one of the priory researchers denote watching the sylvari for changes.

Even before that, when LA was undergoing its final rendition before its fully rebuilt new self, you could talk to an OoW agent who said that a handful of survivors had returned and now the OoW is recalling many of their members far and wide.

Which of course makes no sense how the Pact fleet can be destroy, LA can be rebuilt, mordremoth invades as far as Diessa Plataeu, the Pact Commander present for it all, and the Pact Commander not even making it to Camp Resolve (where we’re sent to at the end of S2) as said by the PC by the time of the HoT prologue, when said HoT prologue takes place less than 24 hours after the end of S2 (aka the fleet being destroyed).

Kalavier.1097:

You mean Caudecus, and how that has mostly been resolved or sidelined with him living with Jennah? That by itself isn’t nearly as major as it was. Early human storylines also deal with reducing that.

You say that as if Season 2 didn’t specifically have a mention of Caudecus outside of the palace manipulating ministers into spreading lies about Jennah.

You say that as if the White Mantle and their frontline bandit persona weren’t highlighted in Silverwastes, Dry Top, and the still-not-completed raid.

While the threat was dealt with for a time, it wasn’t fully dealt with.

Kalavier.1097:

What struggle? The peace treaty has been moving forward, the cease fire officially signed. That struggle is more of “Putting down the seperatists and the renegades.” Which, in the personal story vigil arc, you kill off the main leadership of the renegades.

The newest leadership of the renegades, but they remain active after that (even having an event that pops up if you do that storyline).

Furthermore, the trouble is less of the separatists and renegades and more of negotiating what each side will give up. It’s part of the lore that it’s still ongoing with little to no progress by the time of the World Summit.

Kalavier.1097:

Where does that second part come from? I know some humans in Shaemoor have dialogue like “I think that dragon stuff is a rumor”, but the charr have the brand going through Ascalon.

I think he’s misinterpreting the dialogue of “we can handle them ourselves” as “they’re not a threat”.

Kalavier.1097:

And the general public won’t know that kitten until later. Spread of information takes times, and the first waves of wounded from the jungle with ACTUAL news are ALSO the waves that know and were told to spread the information that some Sylvari are fine. Given length of HoT campaign (short), the death of the dragon may have happened before the news truly spread.

Per above, the news had already spread as far as the three Orders (or at least Whispers and Priory) before HoT.

We also see during HoT a bunch of mordrem guards migrating west from Tangled Depths, long before we show up. No doubt mordrem guard had reached civilized Tyria before we get there, given how much time we spent in Verdant Brink (at least a week) and Auric Basin (probably just as long).

If news of the crash can hit LA’s area in the Whispers’ method of communication within 24 hours, then within 2 weeks surely the civilians have heard.

Especially if Mordremoth’s call was further than just the fleet. If it was as far as the Grove alone, that’d result in folks knowing.

Kalavier.1097:

That’s been happened for a long, long time. That threat varies in how dire it is, and Norn don’t really have armies, they just convinced some to head over since the one Svanir stronghold was cleared.

It’s actually said that the Sons of Svanir attacks have only become a problem in recent years. Even in Season 2, it’s stated to have only gotten worse than how it was during the PS. It’s why we have to go take out that stronghold in Frostgorge as part of getting Knut to show up.

Kalavier.1097:

My point was, he said in the prologue the npcs and such were noting or calling out Sylvari as dragon minions.

My sylvari character not ONCE saw anything like that, at all.

Start the instance. In the Red fort, look at the northeast corner.

They have sylvari lined at gun point. If you walk up to them after talking to the initial NPC, there will be a dialogue that says exactly what Aaron said.

It’s right there in plain view, but you have to walk up to the groups to trigger the dialogue. It’s even on the wiki if you’re feeling lazy:

Priory Explorer: I don’t understand. You know us. We’ve fought and bled alongside you for the Pact.
Whispers Keeper: So did the sylvari aboard the fleet, and most turned without warning. We’re not taking any more chances with you.
Priory Explorer: But I don’t feel any different. I’m still me, still a loyal member of the Pact.
Whispers Keeper: You’re also a dragon minion. Reports say all sylvari are. You could be an enemy and not know it.
Priory Explorer: This is preposterous. We’re not a threat!
Whispers Keeper: Maybe not, but we can’t take that risk. You’re all confined to quarters until this is over.

The rewards being only loot bags. Discussed in this thread several times.

For example: Shell Shock has 3 Bags of Loot as the reward, and nothing more. Every chapter 7 (greatest fear) story step sans Forging the Pact and Battle of Fort Trinity (aka every story step that was removed and restored) only gives 3 Bags of Loot as reward.

Kalavier.1097:

Issues between the races? What do you mean?

The ONLY two races with ‘issues’ (talking major races purely) are Charr and Humans, and they are well on their way to a peace treaty, if that’s not already been mostly formalized!

There’s supposed to be minor hostility between asura and sylvari due to what was delved into in S2 (asura experimented on sylvari in pretty large numbers during the beginning of the sylvari’s time in Tyria), and not to mention any further anti-sylvari conflicts spurned by Scarlet (as we see all over LA) and the truth of their origins being revealed.

I’d be highly disappointed if S3 doesn’t go into the aftermath of the sylvari reveal in a political sense. At least as the opener of the season.

EdwinLi.1284:

sadly this was intended so they can continue the story in Season 3.

Think HoT as Part 1 of the story and Season 3 as Part 2.

HoT is part 3.

Season 1 was part 1, Season 2 was part 2, HoT is part 3.

And it seems obvious that the Scarlet/Mordremoth arc isn’t finished.

And if it is, then kitten do Anet needs new writers because come on.

Eluveitie.1290:

On a related note, just as Orr, now the Maguuma is stuck in its own time bubble. Central Tyria in another, with some time bubbles mixed here and there. It’s starting to become a horrible mess and I can’t even begin to imagine what it’ll be when more updates come.

Every single mess is stuck in their own time bubble.

And that bubble only changes when the living world affects the zone.

Fields of Ruin? Mount Maelstrom? Bloodstone Coast? Harathi Hinterlands? etc. They’re all still in 1325 AE.

Kalavier.1097:

I’ve been told if you go into the helix map after finishing the final instance, and go to talk to the people at the top their dialogue changes. I think the only real one I’ve heard that was interesting was Caithe returning to the Pale Tree to deliver the news of Trahearne’s death and the jungle dragon’s death.

Rytlock also asks us to go after Kralkatorrik.

Braham asks us to go after Jormag.

Canach mentions returning to Anise and requesting freedom.

Marjory is the only one who’s rather meh with her dialogue. A bit of closure about her sister, that’s all.

Aveneo.2068:

Leaving the Festive Imbiber active is cool and everything (and thanks for the update), but the drinks that are required for the achievement will still be gone after the event so it kinda defeats the purpose… And no, the single box a day from the christmas tree in our home instance is not a viable method imo.

So unless you guys add some cooking recipes to a vendor so we could brew our own festive drinks and such or lower the requirement to something around 2500 it would be rather pointless to leave an achievement active that can’t be completed anyway (unless we fork over cash-for-gold on a finite TP supply).

Just my opinion on the matter. Sorry if it sounds a bit harsh.

You can craft the peppermint food which counts to the achievement, further the Star of Gratitude gives a chance of the wintersday gifts (albeit unreliably).

Still no fix on chapter 7 rewards.

Sadness.

I don’t see the issue. We already have a good deal of it and reason. Hell, when the China release went live, we got a ton of East Asian looks that got passed as Canthan in game. Explanation was pretty close to what you said: Zephyrites had brought the culture of their previous port of call. Which via dialogue with Marjory indicated said port of.call was Cantha.

We have that ‘instantly ton of Canthan stuff’ and we have explanation. Why is this a discussion about what if?

Kalavier.1097:

Likewise, random dialogue in the Reach actually has two people commenting on how it’s hard to find (or unlikely) actual rice cakes or something, given the LONG time cut off from Cantha. Another scene has them comment on how the Canthan’s in Kryta don’t even know who the current emperor is, or when the last one died.

Both of those are to be expected.

First off, the last contact with Cantha had been 100 years ago. That’s long enough for the Canthan emperor to die and be replaced. No one – Canthan descent or otherwise – would know who the current Canthan emperor is unless they’re Zephyrites.

Secondly, it’s hard to get rice cakes no doubt for the very reason that rice is unlikely to be grown in Kryta. The population that is of Canthan descent is relatively small even compared to Elonians or Ascalonians – only those of Orrian descent are fewer in number. With no mention of rice grown in Kryta (or Ascalon) in GW1, any rice grown in GW2 would have had to had seeds brought by Canthans. No doubt that’s a small number in of itself (if you’re escaping from a dictatorial empire, seeds for your cultural foods is probably in the back of your mind), and of those not all would germinate in Kryta’s different environment.

On the other hand, weapons, armor, and clothing as well as oral traditions are far easier to bring over, and far more likely (after all, would most let alone all refugees be stark naked and ignorant of their own culture?).

For it spreading fast: People seemingly instinctually like ‘exotic’ things – foreign concept that shadows their own way of life. Reasons differ, but it’s there. This would be enough reason for an eccentric swordsmith to see a katana brought from Cantha and go “I want to produce these!” and sell them to people who go ‘oh, neat, foreign weaponry.’ Then seeing how effectively they sell, the mass producing blacksmith groups go and make a large number of the weapons, and bam. You have katanas everywhere.

No need for a Canthan ship to be docked in LA. Which, if such a thing happened, the outcry for “let us go to Cantha” would be deafening.

Lankmaster.6507:

I’ve poked around a bit on the forums and the internet in general and can’t find much discussion on this.

The map on the stone wall, in the room where you use saurian bones as conductors to start the machine back up, that shows leyline energy concentrations. Firstly, anyone have a nice zoomed in screenshot of that to share? Secondly, we know that one point is Tarir, and one point is Mordy, and one point is Rata Novus, but what about the others? Has anyone taken the time to do an analysis on their physical location on the main map and what they may be (bloodstone for one of them??)?

Any insight into this would be great, as I am very curious about it.

Given the general positions, I took the smaller dots to be the Exalted outposts. There’s one on one the north, south, east, and west side of Tarir’s dot.

There are two I don’t know though – one between Mordremoth and Rata Novus (could be the Exalted structure in Dragon’s Stand – or the Rata Novan sturcture there), and one NW of Tarir, which would place it roughly at the entrance between Verdant Brink and Auric Basin if my estimations are right.

pdavis.8031:

I think this is the picture you are referring to. The second one is the globe in the Chantry of Secrets. To me both maps look very similar. I wonder if the globe and the wall map are essentially the same thing?

Either way, it would be interesting to see what those other points on the first map are.

As diovid said, the globe shows threats and doesn’t even have geographically accurate landmasses. Places are distorted based on the severity of the threat per the Whispers’ opinion.

Slowpokeking.8720:

We are not taking about the free moving ones, but those which block the way. Those obviously are part of the dragon.

There are no such vines “blocking the way” to Dragon’s Stand.

And those vines we do see blocking the way are often outright stated to be corruption.

Slowpokeking.8720:

We did march through the blight towers and why didn’t Mordremoth attack us with the huge tendirls?

That’s the question: Why doesn’t Mordremoth ever attack after bringing down the fleet?

Slowpokeking.8720:

More like it couldn’t.

If it couldn’t, it wouldn’t be due to inability to attack a ground unit. We see him do such at Fort Salma and Concordia. We know that Mordremoth’s tendrils can attack and decimate ground troops.

But nothing says that he couldn’t attack after he destroyed the fleet. Just that he didn’t. And didn’t != couldn’t.

He likely over-estimated the ground forces of the Pact, just as Zhaitan over-estimated the fleet of the Pact.

Slowpokeking.8720:

No it won’t, if the troops and the air force had burned the entire ground throughout the way, there is no way that Mordremoth could simply use its tendrils without getting burned off.

It can greatly weaken it and it would take time to regrow.

The troops would be burned alive, and Mordremoth would simply regrow once the flames are gone – the flames can hit roots, that’s why wildfires don’t destroy forests entirely.

That “time to regrow” is also time in which the Pact cannot pass through.

Slowpokeking.8720:

It doesn’t have to burn it entirely, just greatly weaken it, the source of its root is still in the jungle.

And since he has tendrils going under the surface (but not thousands of feet deep like destroyers and Primordus are), fires would not get to it. The lack of oxygen would smother them out.

This is why Trahearne explicitly states that burning down the jungle – an idea the PC idiotically suggests despite it being obvious to have been the Pact’s initial plan – won’t work.

You continuously state “the pact should have done this” when the story itself outright shows and tells that it wouldn’t work.

No, but the centaurs do have their village centered around a tree.

Slowpokeking.8720:

All those tendrils and vines are part of it.

Taimi disagrees:

PC: The vines? So, you mean Mordremoth’s corruption.
Taimi: Not exactly. It’s my belief that these vines we’re seeing are coming directly from the dragon, spreading underground across Tyria. It’s not just corruption. It’s him.
PC: And the free-moving ones aboveground?
Taimi: As far as I can tell, they’re corrupted. And spreading. But our primary concern is the waypoint situation. If that gets worse, we could be in serious trouble.

The tendrils and vines that we see which are Mordremoth are the ambient ones, not the ones we destroy, not the jungle tendrils – those are corruption, minions.

Slowpokeking.8720:

But Mordremoth could not stop the land troops from getting in, which means its huge tendrils don’t work on land troops.

There’s a huge difference between “could not” and “did not bother”.

We don’t fight through Mordrem or destroy vines (huge or small) to get into Dragon’s Stand. Dragon’s Passage is the method that mordrem use to leave the area, and it exists accessible to players more for mechanical reasons than not – storywise, the Pact destroyed the Chak Gerents and blasted kitten in a wall – a standard stone wall – to get access to Dragon’s Stand.

Mordremoth never bothers to launch a full scale assault against the ground troops personally – not until they destroy the three towers. Prior to that point, he only sends minions against the ground troops.

Mordremoth himself only made a move against the fleet. And if there were any ground troops in Verdant Brink when that happened, then that assault would have affected the ground troops too.

Slowpokeking.8720:

But Mordremoth didn’t use something like nuke, simply send footsoldiers to burn the entire jungle and Earth along with the air strike, its root would not be able to burst out unless it wants to get burned.

You don’t seem to get it. Sending ground troops underneath the Pact Fleet would have been like sending them into an earthquake that results in death incarnate coming out of the ruptures.

Since when can ground troops survive a piece of land being ripped apart, pieces of it shot into the air, and giant thorn-covered vines wrapping and coiling along all they come across?

Want to burn the forest? That’s exactly what Trahearne tried. But where you’d send soldiers to get surrounded by a wildfire and die with the hope of taking the enemy with them, Trahearne tried burning the jungle from the sky. It didn’t work.

A wildfire cannot kill Mordremoth, be it from ground or air.

Slowpokeking.8720:

It doesn’t have to burn out everything, just the majority of Mordremoth’ body to weaken it. We cut its vines and burn out its tendrils through the way. It didn’t grow back right after, how would it recover from the Searing quickly?

And in the that time, Mordremoth would have regrown its body already.

You really don’t seem to be getting it.

Their dialogue implied that – regardless of how recent it might have been, they were there before the crash.

But being present in Dry Top does not mandate being present further west.

Chaks are insects. They have carapace shells, not leather.

You can’t make jackets out of them.

But you can make armor plating!

Slowpokeking.8720:

So it couldn’t even regrow its small part back quickly, how could it regrow so fast if the majority of its body was destroyed?

We never destroy a small part of it. Or a big part of it. Not until the Dragon’s Stand end meta.

Mordremoth is not his corruption. They are separate things. But Mordremoth can regrow his body from his corruption – as you said, he can transfer his mind.

Slowpokeking.8720:

We got to its Mouth with landtroops.

At no point after bringing down the Pact Fleet does Mordremoth rend the landscape asunder.

We would be able to get to the Mouth via the air after Mordremoth brought down the fleet given all the activity he gave.

It’s like you’re saying – let’s give a hypothetical situation: the US and China go to war. The US sends a fleet of aircrafts to fly towards China’s captial, but when they reach the coast China drops a nuke on them. Afterwards, via slow land invasion and no further nukes launched, the US captures China’s capital and wins the war. You are basically saying “if the US sent land troops with the aircraft fleet from the same direction, the US would have won immediately despite the fact that a nuke was dropped on the area.”

Such a thing would not have happened – the US, or in HoT’s situation the Pact – would have suffered far more casualties as both army forces got wiped out.

Now, if the Pact had sent a ground unit from Rata Sum at the same time the Pact Fleet flew in from the northwest, the ground unit would not have been affected by Mordremoth tearing apart Verdant Brink and, in turn, would not suffer casualties from that event and could have – potentially – ended the fight a bit sooner.

They were actually already set up in Dry Top long before the crash – and had a strong presence in the general area for a while (see Brisban Wildland’s Sinister Triad).

Being imbued with energy since the windstorm does NOT mean that the pylons had been active only since the windstorm.

It just means that they got a power boost since then. One of the Pact Soldiers’ corpse is beneath a tree, suggested to have happened during a storm. If that storm is the same one caused by Mordremoth’s death, then it would mean the Pact were in the area before Mordremoth’s death – which makes perfect sense, in all honesty – and were facing those defenses before Mordremoth’s death.

I never talked about Gorseval being old because of the name Gorseval’s Perch, but because the graves which make up Gorseval are ancient.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The only thing that Colin said would be is Season 1. Which is not the same as the Personal Story. And even that is just the stated hope for.

Which honestly there is no reason not to.

Of course there are reasons not to make the PS repeatable: it costs development & QA time that might be spent on something else. So far, the only two reasons I’ve seen stated to make that sort of change are: to help document the wiki and because it would be consistent with the LS2 & HoT stories. The first is a noble cause, without (in my opinion) outweighing the costs; there are also other ways to resolve that issue. The second, well, it wouldn’t be the first inconsistency in the game to remain.

Given the choice, I’d far prefer to see new stories. For the community, I’d prefer to see Season 1 turned into something that new players could at least watch via in-game cinematics, even if it’s too costly to implement an actual playable story.

tl;dr I’m not against making the PS replayable; I just don’t see that it’s a better value to the community than just about any other story-related suggestion

Let me put it like this:

To a new player – e.g., the people who would be the biggest income for ArenaNet, given the LW’s model and that gemstore purchases are unrequired – the personal story is the very first storyline that they’ll experience.

Do you want new players – again, the biggest income for ArenaNet – to be introduced with a story that has buggy and uninteresting real-time cinematics (the rare times they’re present), a series of limited-time cinematcs (I think that’s the term for them- the side-by-side ones) which aren’t used elsewhere, buggy or odd placed instances, dialogue, and discontinuity from the open world?

Even if there’s this grand, awesome, super-interesting story waiting for them, they will first experience the personal story. And let me make it clear: first impressions DO matter.

The tutorial has been made shoddy with the NPE. And the Personal Story was always a bit iffy, which has only been made more prominent by the improved work of Season 2 and Heart of Thorns.

Going back and reworking the Personal Story to flow better will be a benefit in the large part. Not only would it give reason for veteran players to go through it on more than three-to-five characters, but reworking the PS and making it replayable gives an opportunity to give it story achievements and related rewards, effectively producing new content without the whole team required to put effort into it.

Now I’m not saying it’d be an easy task. But I would argue day and night that the benefits outweigh the costs.

And the same goes double for Season 1, where players can’t even experience the story but are left – for now – with a highly incomplete summary.

It might be fine for you or me who have already experienced the story, but for everyone else – which is far greater in numbers – that’s not the case.

Its good to look ahead, but to blindly charge forward without taking a pause to look at older values and see how they can be improved to augment the newly created content would leave new players being delivered with a shining example of glory, just to be introduced with what is comparatively a dirty-but-working product.

And yes, I’m aware you can do the later storylines without completing the Personal Story. But would you read The Two Towers without reading Fellowship of the Ring?

Slowpokeking.8720:

I don’t see it, if you destroy a large part of its body, it would lose a lot of magic energy and it would take longer to recover. Otherwise we would never be able to even get to Dragon’s Stand.

But we never destroyed large parts of its body to get into Dragon’s Stand…

Slowpokeking.8720:

It took down the airships because the Pact was stupid enough to send the fleet alone without land troops, and they didn’t know about the Sylvari secret. Mordremoth isn’t really more menacing than others, it’s just that we didn’t know to much about it like the other Dragons.

Yes, because adding in land troops would have really hindered Mordremoth in tearing the landscape apart instantly.

Honestly, look at Verdant Brink. That is a landscape where Mordremoth literally shrugged huge chunks of the earth away to strike the airships down. Foot soldiers wouldn’t have stood a chance.

And no other Elder Dragon was capable of instantly wiping out fortifications without warning – or of spreading so far so fast without personally moving.

Whether Mordremoth is more dangerous than others is relatively debateable given the power of an Elder Dragon is proportional to how much magic it consumed, but it was a bigger threat than the others by far.

And truth be told, every dragon wasn’t really known in the first few years of its wakening. Heck, people doubted the very existence of Zhaitan for the first ten years it was awake.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Since its root went so deep, why didn’t it get the attention of the Destroyers and their master?

You’re taking the line too literal. The idea is that Mordremoth’s corruption is too widespread. Not that it’s deep underground.

Kalavier.1097:

Also the fact the inquest as a faction is rather splintered.

The group that remains in Sorrow’s Embrace seems separate in goal from Kudu’s plan before he died.

Way I remember it, ones directly around Rata sum are questionable, but not SUPER crazy (because they are right at or near Rata Sum). The further away, the more crazy the stuff they get up to.

An inquest lab near Rata Sum may have entirely different goals and leadership then one in bloodtide coast.

It’s less that they’re splintered, but that they’re working on a multitude of projects. Kudu was just a project leader – very high up, but ultimately not the top brass. He was the one in charge of dragon research, but not all Inquest care about that. After Kudu dies, Brie from Arah might have taken over that field, but with her dead there’s no indication that the Inquest carried on dragon research.

The group that remained in Sorrow’s Furnace were indeed there for different reasons by all indication – Kudu seemed to be there for testing to see if he could build a mega-golem (Iron Forgeman 2.0) that was powered with dragon energy.

The same effect would be had if you chopped it down to the root.

But the point was that you couldn’t burn it down to the root – Mordremoth regrows too fast, his corruption spreads too quickly. I mean, just look at how fast he took down the airships – that is the best guess we have for his speed of spreading. To kill Mordremoth physically, you’d have to destroy – be it if with sword, fire, or poison or other means – all of his corruption. Which in of itself is hard to do, but when you add in the rate of its growth – it’s practically impossible.

And minions count as part of its corruption, btw.

Thanathos.2063:

First of all I’d like to point out that there are two kinds of dragons:
Those who act as a direct threat to the Tyrians (Zhaitan, Jormag and Kralkatorrik) and those who aren’t that present (Mordremoth, Primordus and Bubbles). We have already taken out one of both categories, but I’m not sure if that makes it more likely that one of the first category comes next…

Mordremoth left the second category and entered the first. That’s the story reason why we went after him – he became the biggest threat.

Zhaitan was the biggest threat. Then Mordremoth was.

Now Jormag is. But that doesn’t mean Anet cannot arbitrarily make any dragon the most active. Even Primordus or the DSD.

Thanathos.2063:

I think that Bubbles is the least likely next dragon. Mordremoth and Bubbles were the most mysterious ones and I’d be kinda surprised if Anet would take out both this early.

Anet already jumped the gun by delivering Mordremoth so soon, IMO. Everything about HoT gave the potential for the best dragon storyline, but failed to deliver because it was rushed and was the second dragon – all further dragons will pale in comparison to the only Elder Dragon to speak into the minds of the player characters.

Thanathos.2063:

Plus, they would run out of excuses why the naval tradeways with Elona is / remains closed.

There’s no reason why not to now. We don’t know where the DSD is, and there’s no indication that it’s breached the surface of the water.

Thanathos.2063:

Jormag is kinda unlikely to me, too. The argument with the arcitc explorer outfit isn’t THAT bad, but that’s not more than a small hint.

There’s also Braham advocating to kill Jormag next if yo utalk to him in the Heart of Thorns open instance after completing Hearts and Minds. There’s also the fact that he is the most active dragon of the four remaining.

Primordus is the one who’s honestly got the fewest reasons to go after next.

• We don’t know where he is.
• He’s inactive on the surface.
• He has no ties to any current plot, only the possibility of something Rata Novus found, and they were researching all Elder Dragons.

Even the DSD has more reason to show up than Primordus. While we don’t know where it is, there is that concept art created with Heart of Thorns of a dragon rising out of water, and the magic from Mordremoth’s death went in its direction (roughly) which means it could possibly be getting a power boost – like Mordremoth did.

Furthermore, unlike Primordus, Jormag, and Kralkatorrik, the DSD – like Mordremoth – has no open world dialogue or influence. There’d be minimal clashing with saying the DSD is dead because you won’t go into a zone and have “the DSD is threatening us!” like you would all other dragons (albeit… this includes Zhaitan).

Drax didn’t say that things would grow back “right after” killing it. Even Mordremoth was stated to be able to regrow his body – his physical form – from his corruption. That’s what Drax was saying.

You can kill Mordremoth, even with fire, but it would just regrow. Even a wildfire wouldn’t be able to kill Mordremoth and its corruption completely – as Trahearne said (as you paraphrased), Mordremoth’s roots grew too deep.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

What if Anets writers have planned Trahearne to end like this, independent of what the fans wanted.

WHen GW2 was released, devs said that they needed Trahearne to fill the role he does because it’s a role that couldn’t be filled by the PC – not the whole ‘independent of the Orders’ (they could easily write around that) but the ‘leader of a huge organization’. The PC cannot be bogged down by logistics.

If they had planned Trahearne to die in the second story related to him, then his placement was a bunch of BS from the start. The reason for his existence was BS from the start. And in all honesty? We need an NPC to fill Trahearne’s role – no game that told a good story had us as the defacto leader of a huge organization. Hell, even most stories regardless of medium don’t have the main character being the defacto leader of a huge organization unless its a tragedy or a sequel (which often results in losing that role).

I might, possibly, think that they killed Trahearne because that’s what they wanted for their story, if the entirety of HoT wasn’t catering to the playerbase. Players had cried about the disconnection between GW1 and GW2 in lore since release, and HoT has more such ties than the initial release, S1, and S2 combined – even though S2 had a ton of ties to GW1 lore. From revenants to Rata Novus to Auric Basin HoT is stuffed full of GW1 tie-ins. The main plot is stuffed full of giving players what they wanted – from leading the Pact to killing Trahearne and taking Caladbolg. This trend began with S2, with continuous call outs of the PCs’ actions (“Please allow me to present your guest, Destroyer of Zhaitan and Commander of the Pact.” “Ahem. Introducing a hero who needs no introduction, the Commander of the Pact.” etc. etc. etc.)

It seems so blatantly obvious to me that they did these things not for the story but for the players’ wants. If they didn’t give players who cried out every single thing they wanted from the original story, I’d be inclined to agree with you. Regardless of reason for hating Trahearne, it seems pretty kitten obvious that Anet’s writers were set with the goal of quelling these outcries. Because it’s not just Trahearne’s death which feels like blatant catering, but well beyond that.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

So get off you high horses for a second and stop whining about a predictable outcome of events.

It only became predictable after the stage was set, long after the outcries for his death and the catering to the playerbase had begun.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

You think I’m happy they killed of Eir and Faolain? Not really, but you don’t see me crying about and blaming other fans of the game for pressuring Anet into killing them off.

Very few – if any – wanted Faolain to die off. Few enough wanted Eir to die off that it wasn’t a vocal outcry.

Not to mention Eir’s death was blatantly obvious in that it was done for Braham’s development – like all other characters’ development, Braham needed the death of a loved one to change. That’s the repeating trend with GW2’s writers. Every single character that has a development change has had a loved one die. Caithe had Wynne, Marjory had Belinda, Braham had Eir, even Taimi had Scruffy’s over-dramatic death occur.

EdwinLi.1284:

A interesting to take notice of as the story progress with each Elder Dragon’s death. As each one dies more magic is returned into Tyria and with it the awakening of powerful ancient magical creatures that has remained dormant for centuries such as Gorseval.

Not to mention back in Season 2 we learned that the Elder Dragons are part of the World’s function/cycle but what would happen if we remove the Elder Dragon’s from that cycle. I think we are getting a glimps to what will happen to the GW world as we kill each Elder Dragon from Spirit Vale

Gorseval doesn’t seem to be ancient – given the lore we know, I’d say it’s no older than 250 years.

I don’t think Gorseval is at all tied to the Elder Dragons dying – just that the ghosts got riled up from a high magical increase.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

I’d even dispute that Gorseval necessarily predates Mordremoth’s death. Of the dialogue I’ve seen, the only thing that refers directly to it are a couple of the bandit journals, which have nothing fixing their chronology. They do mention that the windstorm riled the ghosts up, though, and that becoming something like Gorseval is a reaction to feeling threatened. Putting those two together, it’d make sense to me that they’d be more apt to fuse after the storm than before. That’d leave Gorseval either not existing before that, or at least becoming much larger afterwards.

I haven’t done the whole raid (haven’t even killed the Vale Guardian yet tbh), but based on what I saw on the wiki:

One of the journal states “Ever since that windstorm riled up the ghosts, we can’t patrol the jungle floor. It’s infested with those kitten things. Got a hunch they came from inside the compound. I know what they did.”

The “windstorm” refers to the magical release of Mordremoth’s death. This means that the ghosts we have to run from in the raid came from inside the compound after this event, making the area more dangerous. No doubt this is what you’re thinking makes Gorseval formed after Mordremoth. However…

“I can hear them at night. They sometimes talk like everything is normal. Then they start acting crazy–confused.”

“They attack anything that walks through those woods. Good thing they don’t remember the truth, otherwise our little tree fort would be a pile of sticks by now.”

“I’ve never seen spirits do what these do. When threatened, they merge together to form a stronger entity. Put enough of them together, and you get that abomination outside the graveyard.”

“Sabetha sent their leader for questioning. Hasn’t decided what to do with the rest. We should either put them to work or watch them get eaten by Gorseval. I could use some entertainment.”

Mordremoth’s death was very recent. This line implies that Gorseval has been around long enough not only for the bandits to study, and know how the spirits act, but to find entertainment in feeding prisoners to them. In other words: they know what Gorseval does to its victims.

Furthermore, “Gorseval’s Perch” is definitely ancient. The gravestones there date back as far as 1079 AE. That’s when the White Mantle fled into the Maguuma Jungle.

draxynnic.3719:

although they’ve forgotten just what it is they desired vengeance for.

Not so much what for, but who against.

draxynnic.3719:

Gorseval, on the other hand, appears to have pretty much been made by accident… or, at least, the bandits didn’t know that this would be a potential result. Those behind them may well have…

In one of the Guild Chats, the artist behind Gorseval made a slip stating that its made of souls released when “spoilers” broke. Given the date on the gravestone, my bet is either the answer is “soul batteries” or, less likely, “bloodstone”.

We know from said gravestones that this place has been around since at least 1079 AE. We know from Olias’ quest that the White Mantle continued sacrifices even in 1075 AE, well after the purpose for them had ceased. In the raid there’s the giant wall with commentary about how there are screams and chanting on the other side – said other side being to the west: Bloodstone Fen.

Furthermore, we know from Jacob Salinger that souls trapped in the soul batteries are “changed” – those that we let loose attacked us, but left mursaat alone.

My theory is that the initial spirits that made up Gorseval were the souls killed during GW1 and placed in soul batteries that never made it to the Ring of Fire. They got loose and over the centuries, like you said, added more to them, growing in power and numbers.

Caladbolg was broken before the PC picks it up in Hearts and Minds. In fact, it’s object name in that instance is “Shattered Caladbolg”. Though why Shattered Caladbolg is a greatsword while Broken Caladbolg is a sword is questionable. They look the same… But the sword is just all around smaller.

Going off of the dialogue, Gorseval predates Mordremoth’s death and possibly awakening. Mordremoth’s death is said to have made ‘all magical beings’ which includes the ghosts and Gorseval go hyperactive.

Mordremoth is NOT the Maguuma Jungle.

Just because they call Mordremoth the jungle dragon or compare him to bring a jingle does not make him the Maguuma. He is basically making a new jungle, one mostly of vines, that is overriding the old jungle.

It’s a bit more accurate to call Mordremoth a gargantuan thicket than a jungle.

And, like has been said, there are several examples when they don’t take damage from fire – who have fire resistance.

Just as there are examples when they take more damage from other thinks.

The case of mortars dealing more damage against the Mouth of Mordremoth is just a case of using a more powerful weapon – and yes, I would argue that those mortar explosions are stronger than the standard weaponry and spells of our PCs. We don’t go around carrying mini-nukes, after all.

Marge.4035:

It is, and it still has kitten on the midsection for some human female chars.

Ok, forum censorship, you win. I mean a GAP on the midsection.

Nothing says sexy like blue dead skin on the belly button.

I disagree. We see just as many fire resistant situations as we see fire weakness cases.

Mortars are physical force just as much as they are explosions. Depending on what’s loaded.

Still that’s not many cases of common fire and almost all are fairly negligible difference between using these fire and using standard attacks.

Fire is used against Mordrem in only one story instance, Prisonerso f the Dragon, which uses special highly combustive grenades.

Then there is an adventure in Verdant Brink with a flamethrower.

All in all, two cases of using fire to fight Mordrem.

We also see cases ofu single herbicide. Aka poison. There’s also preservation magic (what the Exalted claim to use), chak, and brute force all being used effectively against Mordremoth.

Are those also his weaknesses?

Many of its minions are also utilizing fire as part of itself. Such as the Mordrem Mounts, Mordrem Wyverns, or Flame-touched Husks.

It’s a hit-and-miss thing.

The only rocks used in making destroyers are volcanic rocks like obsidian – aka cooled lava.

As we saw in GW1, dwarves made of stone were actually stronger against destroyers. Unlike destroyers that were hardened lava, the dwarves turned themselves to cold stone, with an almost icy sheen to their appearance.

The Rite of the Great Dwarf does seem to create a structure that mirrors dragon minions, which is an interesting situation that has yet to be answered. But the ghosts of the Foefire seem the same – they “share Adelbern’s hatred” and most of them seem mindless except for higher ranking individuals, and the higher ranked they appear, the more intelligent they seem (just like dragon minions). Unlike dragon minions, all stone dwarves seem equally intelligent – much like the Pale Tree’s sylvari, whom are unique from other mordrem (and even other sylvari – e.g., Malyck) in the connection to the Dream (only Mordremoth, the Pale Tree, and the White Stag are known to have a connection to the Dream – it is via the Dream that Mordremoth enters the minds of sylvari, but by all indication no other mordrem is tied to the Dream, as it is an empathetic link allowing sylvari to sense one another – the effectiveness of this sensing tied to how strong their link to the Dream is – this is why some chose to become Soundless, or others who don’t become Soundless still isolate themselves, like Amaranda the Lonesome) as well as in their intelligence.

If the dwarves end up vulnerable to corruption, I’d imagine it to be Jormag’s given the cold stone/icy sheen aspect of their appearance. Not to mention that the dwarves are known to have as much interaction with Jormag than with Primordus (if not more so – see Sanguinary Blade).