Guild Wars 2

We always see him from a distance, never up close and personal, and we see him in comparison to a Pact Flagship.

We also starved him so he probably didn’t look like how he did from when he rose Orr. And Orr isn’t a continent, mind you, but a peninsula. Tyria is the continent.

Zhaitan is actually larger than some versions of the Enterprise from Star Trek.

https://40.media.tumblr.com/e9e443d351fe47ea29d3234753ba1589/tumblr_nr8kkrNBkG1sd0pf4o1_1280.png

https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildwarsLore/comments/3cpuza/zhaitan_was_larger_than_a_starship_designed_to_go/

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Zhaitan's_Size.jpg

The last one also includes Zhaitan’s “original death model” which was supposed to be seen in Arah explorable but was taken out.

It is established canon lore that the player races cannot have halfbreeds with other player races (yes, even norn and human despite their similar look) and the same is true for most player races with non-player races.

DarcShriek.5829:

slyvari/charr – a cat that can produce it’s own catnip.

If you were on Guru2 before release, you would know that this is called a sylcarri.

castlemanic.3198:

It’s been confirmed that interspecies romance doesn’t even exist,

This isn’t true. There are some cases of human/sylvari and human/norn relationships or desired relationships throughout the game.

That said, however, there can be no such offspring.

Thangore.2935:

My thoughts too Smekras, but Olaf Olafson does seem to indicate Norn-human is possible.

Given HOT, Sylvari-anything appears possible.

Olaf and his daughter are simply wrong. That’s all. Jeff Grubb confirmed that humans and norn cannot breed years ago.

Unfortunately the interview with said statement was taken down years ago too. It’s hard to preserve those things.

The Destiny’s Edge home instances are coded to react to your character’s individual progress in the personal story.

If Eir is there then you didn’t join an order yet.

Your complaint is like complaining “Eir dies in HoT but when I switch to my personal story she’s alive and well”. The DE instances take place before HoT in their entirety.

Caithe is in hers too despite progress in LS2/HoT if you didn’t complete chapter 3 of the personal story.

You are effectively going back in time 3 years before HoT by entering that instance.

I doubt that it would be everything, honestly, as that would be weird – after all, they’re still mopping up Orr and have a foothold against Jormag in Frostgorge, and even left some soldiers behind in Silverwastes to hold back the mordrem land invasion. But I do think that Anet’s trying to take the Pact out of the picture after HoT.

The Cost of Victory requires completing the last of the Greatest Fear plot steps. If you completed the PS before they were restored/after they were removed, then you wouldn’t have gotten it unlocked.

You probably never technically completed the requirements for that achievement thanks to the NPE mess that took 9 months to fix.

BobbyStein.2315:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And I know this is beyond unlikely but… any chance there’s an update on the PS becoming replayable being a possibility?

That’s not my decision to make, but if I were a betting man I’d say it won’t happen.

Aww, please? It feels so disjointed to have that un-replayable and it makes documentation for the wiki a huge pain!

Would cookies and Vodka make things more likely?

The books are Canon.

The powerstone dust doesn’t stop corruption. It stops telepathic control attempts. Aka mesmers trying to mind kitten you.

It likely wouldn’t affect Mordremoth because he is not only greater than a mesmer but didn’t attack the sylvari minds directly but through their pre-existing connection to the Dream, and no he is not the source of the Dream. Despite the lack of clarification in the final instance.

@stuffystuffs: sylvari “immunity” is not caused by them being dragon minions but by their connection to the Dream which isn’t tied to Moddremotb but was actually acting as a barrier against him and his control (as was the Nightmare) per blog posts leading up to HoT.

And their “immunity” is just a case of “death occurs instead of corruption”. Mordremoth his his spheres of mind and plant, and being their origin, was able to bypass this blockade/“immunity”.

I’m not sure how the cutscene clearly shows anything really.

We see an orb (Zhaitan’s) crashing into another (Tyria’s). But what’s the meaning behind the crashing?

Further, dialogue with the Pale Tree as a non-sylvari imply that the vision is a copy of what Scarlet saw – which was years before Zhaitan died.

In the final instance, the PC tells Trahearne that the Pact is “all but gone.” The Pact. Not the fleet. The Pact.

I don’t think the Pact will play a major role in the future. It seems like ArenaNet might be pushing for a more guild-centric storyline with the Guild Initiative and Braham/Marjory calling themselves and the PC part of a guild. Seems the biconics are more or less members of Destiny’s Edge now.

I think the Pact will be effectively disbanded and it will be the Guild Initiative – led by a fan-favorite: Dougal Keane – with Destiny’s Edge (iconics+biconics) who takes the lead of future storylines.

Given the final instance of Heart of Thorns, there’s the possibility that Zhaitan “lives on” in a manner of speaking, but it’s pure speculation. But Mordremoth is dead.

I’ve of a recent theory that Zhaitan still lives, because of the case with Mordremoth and the situation of Arah explorable having risen talking about Zhaitan as if he still lives.

Hmmm, speaking of underground tunnels from the ocean, beneath Tangled Depths there is a huge underwater cave network that has mechanics matching the dark path of Aquatic Ruins Fractal.

And one such cave goes right under Rata Novus.

So that’s entirely plausible.

BobbyStein.2315:

There’s an open bug on this issue. Now that HoT is out someone should be able to investigate it. I don’t have an ETA on when a fix would be available, but it’s on the list of things to do.

I guess my six remaining characters will not be progressing past chapter 6 for a while now.

On a similar topic: Now that HoT is out, is there any update to be had regarding Season 1 being made permanent content? Is it still simply on the table, has it been taken off the table, is it on an up-coming to-do list without an ETA, or perhaps it is being worked on?

And I know this is beyond unlikely but… any chance there’s an update on the PS becoming replayable being a possibility?

I wouldn’t be so fast to argue that Mordremoth could turn sylvari only because they were created by a creature created by it. In Dry Top we see a vine bridge turn into a mordrem vine before disappearing at the beginning of the clearing mordrem event. So it’s obvious that Mordremoth can corrupt plants as well as grow them.

He’s just a dropped plot thread.

Like Bahltek. The Teller of Tales. Vael. Druids. The Mysterious Stranger who contracted Zinn to make R.O.X. The Herald. Malyk. Lazarus. Drakkar. Wizard’s Tower/Isgarren. Caudecus. Ministry of Purity. Palawa Joko. Molten Alliance. Toxic Alliance. Mai Trin and the Aetherblades. Magdaer (how is Eir gonna give it to Logan now!?). Adelbern. The Nightmare. Dhuum. Menzies. Shiny. And many, many more I can’t think of atm.

None of these got concluded. Just faded away into nothingness.

As I said in another thread with this very topic (seriously guys, three threads on the same topic now?):

Konig Des Todes.2086:

• Braham wants to go after Jormag.
• Rytlock wants to go after Kralkatorrik.
• Rata Novus was heavily studying Primordus, so we may get his weakness faster.
• Jormag has been the second most active dragon since the Personal Story.

But I don’t think any of them will be next.

In the final cinematic, we see the magic within Mordremoth explode and go into four directions. They coincidentally seem to match the cardinal directions – north, south, east, west.

Now, the one that went north went into the egg. So the egg got 1/4th of Mordremoth’s magic. Where did the other three go?

Well, the one which went west would have gone directly to Rata Sum – to the GW1 vets, you may remember Arachni’s Haunt dungeon; well in the quest dialogue the asura mention that there’s a high concentration of ambient energy there – yup, Arachni’s Haunt and thus the docks of Rata Sum (what the asura built over the spider cave system) is a ley line hub. Further east of that is the Grove, which wouldn’t be surprising to be on a ley line hub too given the tree is a dragon minion thus would need to consume magic as a food source.

Westward is pure water after the coastline which isn’t far off the map. So it goes into the Unending Ocean and if it keeps going straight-ish then it’d eventually reach Sunrise Crest.

Southward leads to the Ring of Fire – and Abaddon’s Mouth. But beyond that, if the ley line doesn’t turn, it’d lead…. directly to where the Deep Sea Dragon is likely to be.

This might explain why HoT promotions had three dragon heads rising out of tidal waves assaulting Lion’s Arch

Scleritethin/Selbbub/Senor Bubbles/Steve is next Elder Dragon.

If it was done properly, Mordremoth had the best potential to be last, IMO.

Jormag always came off to me as “the next Elder Dragon to fight”.

But given how ArenaNet’s been doing things, I kind of fear that Jormag and Kralkatorrik are the two least likely dragons to be going after next plot-wise.

Edit:

Seriously folks? Three threads on the same thing?

There’s only 3 NPCs afaik that show up later from Verdant Brink. The servant, Ibli, and Tizlak.

No one else does. You don’t see Laranthir, Shashoo, Occam, etc. etc. etc. ever again. They’re stuck in Verdant Brink, forever more.

The maps should show the majority of Verdant Brink survivors showing up and assisting the Exalted in Auric Basin, then again later in Tangled Depths. Have some evacuate each map, and find more the next map.

Example:

Verdant Brink has NPCs A, B, C, D, and E. C and E are wounded so they are evacuated.
Auric Basin has NPCs A, B, D, F, G, H, I, J. G, and H are wounded and B becomes wounded and are evacuated.
Tangled Depths has NPCs A, D, F, I, J, K, L, M, N, O. C and E return with reinforcements bringing NPCs P, Q, R, and S, but NPC N is wounded so is evacuated.
Dragon’s Stand has NPCs A, C, D, F, I, J, K, L, M, O, P, Q, R, and sees the return of G and H with some reinforcements (S, T, U, and V).

That would be better showing the Pact “picking itself up and carrying on its fight against Mordremoth”. Instead we have Pact crashed in each map, with the NPCs stuck in those maps – only natives to the jungle or the case of a crashed copter features a returning NPC.

By having completely new NPCs in each map for the Pact, you’re showing that the 100 NPCs in Verdant Brink survived… but so did the 100 in Auric Basin, the 100 in Tangeld Depths, and the 100 in Dragon’s Stand. But across the maps, you only hear about 100 dying. So despite the constant claims of the Pact being “all but gone” and “decimated”…. the majority of the Pact soldiers survived. Apparently.

What’s worse is that Barron and Fero got killed off screen. GREAT NPCs… killed off screen. Da hell?

I agree with Diovid, and I believe underwater combat is a potential that ArenaNet hasn’t actually tapped yet but is afraid to due to the negative views of it.

Though I fear that the negative views of it may lead them to simply make the DSD a fight on the Ring of Fire or in air-pockets underwater…

The Hunter of Jormag was a Son of Svanir who was close to corruption. He became an icebrood in full when we fought him – after his “reward” for giving ‘Jormag the Voice.’

Should you believe me? It’s pure logic. The sylvari were not born mordrem and later turned, they were born sylvari.

This is why the turned sylvari are no longer called sylvari, they are called sylvari. They are not the same thing.

And yes, we see the dragon directly create Mordrem Guards – but not sylvari. And this creation of a Mordrem Guard is the exact method of creating clones of animals.

Mordremoth is “a little underground.”

Primordus is “hundreds perhaps thousands of miles underground.”

Novus didn’t have fights with Primordus, they had a grudge against him. Despite being underground it was still close to the surface and post-asura rising establishment like Rata Sum (it was established by Zinn after War in Kryta).

Here’s the issue that ArenaNet made.

The story instances in Verdant Brink take place before the events in the area. You meet Laranthir in the story before you help him and the Pale Reavers in VB. The Jungle Provides takes place before the Itzel event chain in VB. Prisoners of the Dragon takes place before the Pact Copse chain in NW Verdant Brink.

This is also true for Act 2 (aka Auric Basin). You do Prized Possessions before you meet any Exalted – it’s when you meet the Exalted. And City of Hope likely takes place before the defense meta.

This carries on for Act 3. You go to Rata Novus before the event chain for Rata Novus takes place – after all, you’re discovering the place and powering it up for the first time ever.

However, in Act 4, the meta event happens alongside Hearts and Mind, not after. ArenaNet changes their entire system with this rushed act, and the story pushes you into the instance the moment you enter it more or less, taking you through it and out of the map into the isolated open world instance called Dragon’s Stand (Heart of Thorns).

This curve ball in the story’s direction, as well as the story pushing you to entirely miss the meta before facing Mordremoth’s mind, leads players to think “that is the Elder Dragon fight” when “the Elder Dragon fight” is – unlike with Zhaitan – in two pieces, much like the final Scarlet fight (you had the Prime Hologram that led into Scarlet’s End instance).

I’ve seen nothing and heard no reports on him. ArenaNet dropped the ball on a lot of plot lines. Malyck is one of them.

And now that the area is explored, where his tree should be, I fear that ArenaNet will just come in and be “lol it’s one of the Blighting trees lol -trollface-”.

Chak Zappers and Destroyer Crabs use the same frames so the similarity isn’t surprising. It’s just like how young karka, sparks/air elementals, and Cuttlers (or w/e they’re called) all use the same frame – that means same animations and same general shape.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Icebrood don’t forcefully corrupt or turn others. The closest we see of this is the Dragonspawn using mental powers to trick Zojja and Snaff into wanting to join them, but even that hold was easily broken when they realized what was happening.

If the Dragonspawn wanted to forcefully corrupt them, it probably would have at that second it got into their minds rather than effectively hypnotizing them.

They do it all the way, quggans quests showed how did they do it, as well as the ritual the 3 shamans perform. Most of the Icebrood clearly were turned forcefully.

They change the way how others think, that means they are hypnotizing.

The three shamans are Sons of Svanir… And I’ve explicitly stated that the Sons of Svanir – who are not icebrood – do in fact channel Jormag’s corruptive magic into others and forcibly corrupt them. This is seen dozens upon dozens of times.

But do you see icebrood – not Sons of Svanir – forcibly corrupting others? Is there not a single Son of Svanir in the quaggan storyline (because I’m pretty sure there is, just like with the grawl)?

And “changing the way how others think” is a pure case of corruption. The Sons of Svanir forcibly corrupt, and the victims are mentally changed as well as physically.

Shiren.9532:

Are we shown a single non-sylvari that was corrupted through its mind? Only sylvari had Mordremoth in their heads iirc.

Are we shown a single non-plant that was corrupted by Mordremoth (and not simply cloned)?

No.

This is a bit of an issue with the combination of being plants and mind. He corrupts via the mind… but he only corrupts plants.

Without us seeing a bunch of druids of old or the wardens from Cantha around, the only talking plants are sylvari.

So then we fall under the question of: Do sylvari hear them because they’re dragon minions (albeit cleansed of control) or because they’re plants?

The only way to answer this is to find another freed dragon minion. Sadly, Glint is dead, the Risen Chicken from Arah doesn’t talk, and Gleam is MIA. Even if Glint was around, she was a natural telepathy for all beings, so if she heard Kralkatorrik’s thoughts (which she did), then we can’t tell if this is because of her natural telapthy or because of the dragon-champion mental connection. So we cannot answer this until either the egg hatches or we meet Gleam. And if they don’t hear Kralkatorrik’s thoughts then we can thus have a state to argue that the sylvari heard Mordremoth not due to being dragon minions that got “purified” somehow (a question still not answered by HoT – one of THE most important ones at that) but because they’re plants.

Shiren.9532:

Is it possible we can scrap the mind as Mordremoth’s sphere and dismiss it as Ella’s misinterpretation of Mordremoth’s naivety (at the time) about the true nature of sylvari? Mordremoth’s sphere wasn’t the mind, it was the Dream? When Ella said it, most NPCs didn’t know sylvari were minions, so to her it might simply be a coincidence that only Aerin and Scarlet had their minds warped.

Ella’s information comes from the Scroll of the True Gods, which predate sylvari by over a thousand years.

The Dream couldn’t be Mordremoth’s sphere because while Mordremoth attacked through it, it was actually a defense against him/other dragons (as was the Nightmare). And we know of at least one non-sylvari who has a connection to it like the Pale Tree does (the White Stag).

Slowpokeking.8720:

I don’t think Mordremoth was “corrupting” the Sylvari, it was reestablish control. Remember what Faolain said in the end? “There is no Caithe, no Faolain, only Mordremoth.” Those Sylvari AKA Mordrem wasn’t suppose to have their own mind, they should have been just the carriers of Mordremoth’ will like hive mind structure.

You can’t really take a dragon minion’s word at face value. They’re all very obviously mentally twisted.

The fact is that sylvari do have their own mind. They do have free will. Dragon minions do not. So they were at some point “purified” in some unknown means. This is a question that should have been answered in HoT, but wasn’t. So I would argue that Mordremoth was, in fact, corrupting them. Though the Pale Tree might have been once a corrupted seed, the sylvari were never corrupted by Mordremoth or under his control. There was no original mindless sylvari or hive mind sylvari.

You cannot “regain” what you never “gained” in the past.

Canakun.8031:

i thought the rata novans were around 50 years prior to GW1, as they were trading/dealing with the exalted at that time. that’s why the exalted in the personal story doesn’t know that rata novus has fallen (which would have happened after GW1 i assume) and assumes Taimi is a novan.

I assumed that the timeline was basically rata novans dealing with exalted > exalted go to bed > some years pass > novus falls > some years pass > exalted awake > where muh asura?

The blog post about the Exalted was wrong. Either it was a slip in the writer’s knowledge or a typo that was meant to be 200 not 300 years ago, and it was missed by the editing process.

But the game clearly indicates that the Exalted were established after GW1, as well as Rata Novus. Neither existed during Prophecies, and the latter didn’t exist until after Eye of the North by indication.

The exact time of Rata Novus’ founding is unclear, but it was post 1079 AE.

Jordo.5913:

Felix.7586:

Amantis.4091:

Aveneo.2068:

I expected him to look more alien and closer to the original concept art. I didn’t expect him to be changed into a generic chinese dragon with a single bramble vine wrapped around his body…

Not the mouth of mordy, ACTUAL Mordy.

Anyways, I saw this

You realize Mouth of Mordy is very much the actual Mordy? It’s said as much throughout the meta and the final mission itself

I feel like I must be the only person in the planet that saw Mindremoth and went “oh cool!”

your both wrong….the mouth of mordremoth is a part of mordremoth, but not mordremoth himself, mouth of morde was trying to consume rocks of ley line energy to feed back to him…..just like the mouths of zhaitan were a part of zhaitan and were eating ancient artifacts to feed zhaitan

then the Mordremoth you fight in the personal story is Mordremoth representing himself that way in his mind, you never fight mordremoth in the actual physical realm, much less ever see his true body

Mouth of Mordremoth is called Mordremoth in the meta event. In the final instance, Mordremoth says “Armies cannot stop me!” (if you’re sylvari) and Canach replies that Mordremoth is distracted by the battle outside – referring to the Dragon’s Stand meta event.

Mouth of Mordremoth IS Mordremoth’s physical body. The point of killing the mind is that Mordremoth can regrow his physical body (aka the Mouth of Mordremoth) from his corruption (this is what Trahearne says).

Taltevus.3289:

3.)Partial parts of…Class Armor: epaulets of the Chronomancer…wheres the rest?
3b.) I am not buying the lack of armors introduced.

I guess you’re going to argue that the biography armors for the professions are also unfinished?

Taltevus.3289:

4.)The further you go down heart of thorns the more it’s like you see where the work slowly started to wane. There are entire sections of maps; Strictly MobTown USA. For what?

Can’t really disagree. Verdant Brink and Auric Basin are clearly the most well done maps. And in story, Acts 3 and 4 felt overly rushed and less work put in overall.

Taltevus.3289:

5.)Verdant brink obviously being the most complete.

Disagree. I felt like Auric Basin got the most attention to detail.

I don’t think there will be a paywall on the rise. No more than we saw with Season 2 – which is hardly a paywall. Technically speaking, HoT is the paywall, since all future LW content requires HoT. But that’s how most MMOs are. Need all previous expansions to play the newest one.

Phy.2913:

People want an xpac to be as big as the original game? That’s not how it works, especially in an MMO. Part of the price is future content.

I wanted a story that felt conclusive. I wanted a story that delved into the previously foreshadowed aspects.

• I wanted Malyk and his tree.
• I wanted the Nightmare/Dream/Mordremoth connections explained.
• I wanted to see Nightmare Courtiers fighting against Mordremoth.
• I wanted to feel threatened and outwitted by the Mordrem Guard, the supposed smartest dragon minions ever.
• I wanted to feel the tension of a sylvari betraying me at any moment.
• I wanted druid lore.
• I wanted lore on the revenant and elite specs.
• I wanted to know what happened to Rytlock.
• I wanted The Falls and Balthazar’s temple.
• I did NOT want a story that felt rushed at the end.

All I got was the Falls and Balthazar’s temple, and a story that felt rushed at the end.

From what I’ve gathered regarding the Dragon’s Stand meta dialogue and from the final instance dialogue is that the Mouth of Mordremoth is actually Mordremoth’s physical body – it’s the mouth we saw at the end of S1/beginning of HoT. The reason why we can’t kill Mordy by killing the Mouth of Mordremoth is that his mind is effectively in all of his corruption so he can just regrow his body (explaining why the meta is a repeating event).

There does seem to be a lore factor of “what a dragon corrupts” but this doesn’t extend to isolating specific races.

Mordremoth corrupts plants and makes plant copies of animals, but doesnt’ corrupt animals.
Primordus doesn’t corrupt animals or plants, but makes mockeries of them out of rock and lava.
Zhaitan doesn’t corrupt living beings but kills them first.

It’s been shown that every Elder Dragon can corrupt anything. We’ve seen living beings and plants corrupted by Zhaitan; we’ve seen dead bodies corrupted by Jormag; we’ve heard of living beings corrupted by Primordus. But they seem to choose to corrupt specific things.

Why we see risen quaggan but not risen skritt is no doubt a mechanic/time resource factor.

• Braham wants to go after Jormag.
• Rytlock wants to go after Kralkatorrik.
• Rata Novus was heavily studying Primordus, so we may get his weakness faster.
• Jormag has been the second most active dragon since the Personal Story.

But I don’t think any of them will be next.

In the final cinematic, we see the magic within Mordremoth explode and go into four directions. They coincidentally seem to match the cardinal directions – north, south, east, west.

Now, the one that went north went into the egg. So the egg got 1/4th of Mordremoth’s magic. Where did the other three go?

Well, the one which went west would have gone directly to Rata Sum – to the GW1 vets, you may remember Arachni’s Haunt dungeon; well in the quest dialogue the asura mention that there’s a high concentration of ambient energy there – yup, Arachni’s Haunt and thus the docks of Rata Sum (what the asura built over the spider cave system) is a ley line hub. Further east of that is the Grove, which wouldn’t be surprising to be on a ley line hub too given the tree is a dragon minion thus would need to consume magic as a food source.

Westward is pure water after the coastline which isn’t far off the map. So it goes into the Unending Ocean and if it keeps going straight-ish then it’d eventually reach Sunrise Crest.

Southward leads to the Ring of Fire – and Abaddon’s Mouth. But beyond that, if the ley line doesn’t turn, it’d lead…. directly to where the Deep Sea Dragon is likely to be.

This might explain why HoT promotions had three dragon heads rising out of tidal waves assaulting Lion’s Arch

Scleritethin/Selbbub/Senor Bubbles/Steve is next Elder Dragon.

Mada.5319:

When was it founded? I’m assuming after the events of EotN since they were studying elder dragons and allied with the exalted.

But then there’s this surface data entry that sounds like it’s from before the asura came to the surface.

Rata Novus was established by asura who refused to live on the surface like those of Rata Sum. It was established after the events of Eye of the North for certain, and since Zinn seems to be a founder this means after the events of War in Kryta too.

That surface data entry doesn’t really say much about date because the city itself is underground. The asura largely didn’t know about the surface or the surface dwellers (sans dwarves) until Eye of the North.

In fact, that surface data entry would have to be dated 50 years after Eye of the North, because it doesn’t mention the dwarves, who were around until approximately 50 years after Eye of the North.

Since Zinn seems to be a founder, it would likely be established in the 1080s – no less than a year after War in Kryta, but still within the timeframe of the exile being recently fresh in Zinn’s vengeful mind.

Icebrood don’t forcefully corrupt or turn others. The closest we see of this is the Dragonspawn using mental powers to trick Zojja and Snaff into wanting to join them, but even that hold was easily broken when they realized what was happening.

If the Dragonspawn wanted to forcefully corrupt them, it probably would have at that second it got into their minds rather than effectively hypnotizing them.

On reddit, saw a thread which had a dialogue from the Rata Novus open world meta event chain with a golem called H.O.X.

Said dialogue

In said dialogue, H.O.X. says when he was last updated. 55,847 days since he was last updated. With the original number of days in a year (360) which should be accounted for even with the blatant, terribly thought out, retcon, would result in just over 155 years. In other words, Rata Novus fell in 1173 AE.

Just a little fun fact I thought to share.

Kayberz.5346:

Except your wrong. Heart of thorns is NOT over. Obviously if you completed tge last story mission you would see it ends on a major cliffhanger and it NEVER officialy said mordremoth is done for and over with entirely, again thats more people ASSUMING things and jumping to conclusions based on extremely vague cinematics.

And it’s more of you assuming that Mordremoth isn’t done over.

The story of Heart of Thorns is over. All that’s left is the raid which was already stated to be based after Heart of Thorns.

The story of Guild Wars 2 is not over. The story of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is over.

The next story plot line will be Season 3 or an interlude.

Each Season and Storyline is like an act in a play. You have Act 1, then an interlude, then Act 2. Sometimes you’d then get an interlude, followed by Act 3.

Heart of Thorns is Act 4 for GW2 (with the PS being act 1, Season 1 being act 2, and Season 2 being act 3).

Act 4 is over. The curtains have fallen. But they will rise again for Act 5 – aka Season 3.

Kayberz.5346:

Any living story release from here until the next expansion including raids is still heart of thorns

No. Any living story release from here will be Season 3, until the Season 3 finale in which it becomes Season 4.

Heart of Thorns was the expansion. And we have played it.

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

Unless of course the Nightmare is allied with the Nightmare race seen in the first Guild Wars which are creatures of pure darkness(fun fact: darkness is the form the Nightmare took when it consumed Faolain).

Whatever being of darkness is behind the Nightmare is likely going to make his or her move now that Mordremoth is dead along with the Nightmare’s own cheif agent Faolain(who got hijacked by Mordremoth before being killed). The Nightmare’s master is likely a Raid Boss(most likely as a giant Guild Wars 1 style Nightmare or Shadow Army style soldier).

Malyck is the only mystery left that we don’t know will ever be solved.

Nothing says anything is behind the Nightmare. It’s just the opposite of the Dream, which again doesn’t have anything behind it.

Mordremoth didn’t control minds (no more than other dragons). He corrupted through minds, I believe is the idea.

I agree it’s not well shown at all. In all honesty, neither is shadow for Zhaitan and both cases feel like the second sphere is irrelevant and unnecessary. But I also feel the same way about sylvari being dragon minions – that plot line held no hook in Heart of Thorns, no more than “sylvari being plants are vulnerable to Mordremoth’s corruption” would have.

Season 1 ending, you mean. Pact isn’t gone, just highly devastated. Despite how many NPCs survived.

Yeah, my theory is that Jormag is Ice and Soul, Kralkatorrik is Crystal and Sky, and that we can’t really guess at Primordus’ second or either of the DSD’s spheres (I do not believe water to be one).

Ice, Crystal, and Fire is obvious for them, as for each dragon the first sphere seems to be “how corruption takes form”. For the DSD, it’s corruption has been hinted to take the form of tentacled monsters, twisting water to make them. So from that the conclusion wouldn’t be ‘Water’ but ‘Tentacle’ which doesn’t match up. Until we see a DSD minion, or hear a nickname like Elder Ice Dragon, it’s first sphere is unknown.

The second sphere for Mordremoth is in how it corrupts, though it’s unknown how exactly Shadows tie into Zhaitan. But going off of “how it corrupts” for the second sphere, we get air/sky from Kralkatorrik, as it corrupts with breath and lightning. This fits very well as Glint, aside from crystals, is known for air/sky via the Zephyrite crystals which are grown from Glint’s own crystals, and empowered with her magic. Furthermore, the path of Kralkatorrik’s corruption is covered with twisted air (just look at the air of the dragonbrand’s border) and a perpetual thunderstorm. Kralkatorrike evn becomes a sandstorm – a mixture of tiny crystals and wind.

So if we look at Jormag, he does a lot of telepathy, but he doesn’t forcefully corrupt via the mind. He does this to get willing converts (though sometimes through trickery) – only the Sons of Svanir seem to forcefully corrupt in Jormag’s name. So to me this crosses him off as a dragon of mind and more simply giving him a tough if mesme-like powers. No different than Mordremoth having some shadows in his powers (Smothering Shadows anyone).

In one of the personal stories, Eir states that Jormag corrupts not only body but soul as well. While this might just be metaphorical, I think it’s literal. And not subjective. Reason being I’d that no other Elder Dragon corrupts souls. In fact, aside from trapping them, like Zhaitan does, only Jormag interacts with souls at all. And what has been his largest prey since waking? Spirits of the Wild. Further, he is the only dragon at all interested in the Mists. First Svanir had a bunch of soul-named skills in GW1, including a skill called “Retreat to the Spirit Realm”. Little known fact is that norn and canthans call the Mists the Spirit Realm on occasion. Then we see Jormag, through the Sons of Svanir, attacking havrouns. We see him targetting kodan Voices in Frostgorge, and there is even a “Frozen Portal” from Jormag which shares models with portals to the Mists.

There is a lot of connection between Jormag and the Mists and Souls. More than ing other elder dragon. Thus is why I believe his second sphere is Soul/Spirit.

Closest thing we get to elite spec lore is the collections.

And since this is also counting as “legendary lore” I guess that’s all we’ll get. A collection to collect semi-relevant items for a weapon.

Felix.7586:

In hindsight, it becomes obvious this was really the Pale Tree convincing you it was Zhaitan so that you’re left in the dark about Mordremoth

Only because ArenaNet made the Shadow of the Dragon be Mordremoth’s champion.

Remove that from the equation, the hindsight obviousness disappears.

@Kayberz: Heart of Thorns is a finished story.

Raids are based after HoT and have been confirmed to be about the next plot.

The overall story of GW2 will carry on, but the story of Heart of Thorns and Mordremoth is over.

There’s never going to be a reason to delve into the difference between Nightmare and Mordremoth’s call/corruption ever again. There will be too little reason if any to look for Malyk’s tree ever again. Unlike the sylvari are dragon minions thing, there is no reason to delve into these. That plotline is closed.

Unless they decide to bring back Mordremoth thus making the entirety of the HoT plot (and S2 plot) irrelevant and pointless.

• Doubtful. Rox doesn’t use much magic – if any.
• Doubtful. Daredevil lacks stealthiness and daggers are by far Caithe’s weapon of choice. There’s no staff of a lost loved one to pick up (the only method of character development ArenaNet has shown themselves capable of with S2 and HoT).
• Maybe. There was a “rusty Scruffy” model dat dived a while back. Since we don’t see it in HoT, it’s obvious some things that_shaman found are for S3. She’s been learning from charr engineers and mentions new ideas for the Scruffy 2.0.
• Probably. She’s already exhibited an excessive use of time warp.
• Hard to tell. She has no real role in HoT.
• Canach is likely your warrior. He seems unlikely to go about burning himself. Though one could count him as being the first of the second engineer elite spec given his use of grenades and bombs (sword using engineers go go go).

The events around the Auric Basin blighting tree as well as the second story instance in HoT makes it fairly clear that every mordrem is a “clone”. So it’s just that he got better at cloning.

Sykper.6583:

Huh, do we have a confirmation his work carried over from ‘Magic Sucks’? Although his presence in the final battles facing Zhaitan might imply it does…

It’s used at Claw Island if you go with Gorr, and when the Priory is attacked they use Gorr’s experimental devices. The cannons on the Glory of Tyria (and perhaps the other airships) are hinted to be based off of his works while the “mega laser” (whatever name it actually has) is an evolved form of the laser used against Tequatl, amplified by Zojja who used Snaff’s and Kudu’s research on dragon energies.

joeyw.9531:

Seriously I really have the impression that Anet just rush the end-game before the release and got no time to put something after

Yeah. Everything after City of Hope felt rushed.

Prior to City of Hope, the only things I’d change would be Eir and Faolain living longer, and the Mordrem Guard commanders being recognizable foes like Faolain’s mordrem form is. Instead we get cyclopean swordmaster, red-pulsing axehead, and Sauron-crown-head staffmaster. I’m highly disappointed that there isn’t a SINGLE mordrem guard who has a name we can recognize from the personal story.

IMHO, the story should have gone as such:

• Canach voice the opening scene, not Laranthir, as it makes no sense to me that Laranthir can contact the commander while being trapped.
• Ibli and Tizlak joins the party for missions to come.
• Eir and Faolain held prisoner at the Corpse Grove in Verdant Brink. Instead of a Vinetooth which ends up being pathetic monsters later on, we fight the first Mordrem Commander who is designed like Faolain’s mordrem form and is someone we recognize from the Pact (e.g., a member of the Pale Reavers). Since commanders respawn infinitely we have to run out of the Blighting Tree re-killing it along the way until we reach far enough away. Yes, Eir and Faolain live.
• In Auric Basin, rather than only new Pact NPCs, we have a return of most (but not all) Verdant Brink Pact NPCs with some new Pact NPCs. This shows that the army is moving with us deeper into the jungle and while we’re evacuating the wounded we’re rescuing those trapped further within. Do this for Tangled Root and Dragon’s Stand as well.
• Instead of Mordrem Faolain in next instance when we meet Caithe, we run into Mordrem Commander #2 who’s based at the southern Auric Basin Blighting Tree. Caithe and Faolain afterwards (off-screen) continue on into jungle (into Tangled Depths) while Rytlock and biconics wait for commander to search for DE.
• After City of Hope, we track Logan, Zojja, and Trahearne (there was no need for him to die except to cater to the haters – no rhyme intended) to the Blighting Tree in southern Auric Basin. Like Ibli and Tizlak, Ruka the Wanderer joins us from here on. We rescue Logan, Zojja, and Trahearne and escort them north to Tarir while the commander harries us.
• Next instance we learn of Rata Novus, with Ruka not some random exalted, explaining the map and room to us. With no rush, we detour towards Rata Novus.
• In Tangled Depths, Malyk’s tree is there and is under assault by mordrem in open world. Meta wise, they could replace ogres or SCAR camps. In story, we catch up to Caithe and Faolain and defend Malyk’s tree (with reunion with him) from mordrem. In mordrem attack, Faolain falls and her body is swiftly taken away. (Dying at this point gives her a chance – albeit 3 instances – to have some proper screen time – note: Eir is with us the entire time so there’d be continued Braham/Eir development). After saving Malyk’s tree we go to Rata Novus.
• In Rata Novus, rather than “every Elder Dragon has a weakness”, we learn something tangential about the general idea behind each weakness and mention Mordremoth’s greatest strength – that he can regrow his body if he has any corruption spread out in the world. Rytlock/Eir make a comment about the fight with Kralkatorrik with leads to the conclusion that Mordremoth must be fought in his mind.
• Afterwards, head south into Dragon’s Reach for the final battle. In Dragon’s Reach we have a story instance that shows our group dividing to help lead the three lanes (NPCs – Ibli, Tizlak, Ruka, and perhaps others) show up in open world with their factions; meanwhile PC goes to weaken Mordremoth’s advances outside of the main assault force where they’re attacked by Mordrem Faolain, who kills Eir. Chase ensues, we end up at the Heart of Thorns. We kill Faolain, we dive into Mordremoth’s mind.
• I would change Mordremoth’s mindscape to be an eternal sky and eternal ground of the writhing vines seen in the chasms of Verdant Brink, with his “true mental form” being the shadow face we see – the two-legged krait oratuss thing would just be his “physical representation in his mindscape” while his mind itself is the shadow face. We defeat the physical representation (which would have a lot less health) to weaken the shadow face. Each time we defeat it, it comes back with allies (overtime this would be each of the iconics/biconics that didn’t enter, the order mentor/Trahearne, who died during greatest fear (Tonn/Syska/Apatia), and who died during invasion into Orr (Tegwen/Zott/Arda Gyreshriek)).

And of course, add some form of after-party celebration like with Zhaitan inside Tarir, with hints of the purpose of the egg and what happened to it. As it is, it ended with one hell of a cliffhanger with no hint that the story’s actually done except for the journal telling us so.

Tarir is over 200 years old, not 100. And to Tyrians, who don’t have a lot in the way of preserved history thanks to the rising of the Elder Dragons, the actions of an insane god, and several cataclysmic events both related and unrelated to the two, 200 years is a lot of time.

I mean think of it. How much around in Tyria was around in GW1’s time and is still there in decent condition? Not Lion’s Arch. Not Ascalon City. Not Droknar’s Forge. Not Temple of the Ages. Not Serenity Temple. Not any of Orr. Not even the Krytan villages of Shaemoor, Ascalon Settlement, Nebo Terrace, or Beetletun are anything like they were in GW1.

Unlike Europe, Tyria has no historical preservation.

Think of it not like us modern earthlings talking about something from the 1800s or 1700s, but about someone from the 900s talking about something from the 700s or 600s.

But anyways, a year was originally only 360 days – so it was shorter than for us. However, an interview back in 2013 blatantly retconned (first ever – most retcons are subtle or not-so-subtle “the old was subjective knowledge and this is new subjective knowledge which is more likely to be accurate”) added 5 days without any proper explanation for the sole purpose of syncing the two calendars up – and if the devs had put two seconds of thought into the matter they would have realized that if they wanted to sync the calendars up they would either need to put Wintersday in the middle of March, or Halloween in the middle of our summer, as Wintersday is not only the Tyrian new year but also the spring equinox while Halloween aka Mad King’s Day is an autumn holiday (and hinted to be at the end of autumn in Tyria) and since seasons previously were 90 days in length perfectly with both holidays being at the end of their respective seasons there would need to be approximately 90-95 days apart from the actual holiday (not necessarily the celebrations).

And seeing how the change for syncing calendars was done for the story journal which never mentions a specified date, and given that Heart of Thorns begins 24 hours after the end of Season 2 though was released 9 months later, I’ve decided to conclude that the change was stupid and this is the only part where I’d use fanon continuity and just argue that the only syncing they have is year to year, not day to day, and that the calendar is still 360 days with each season being 90 days.

The Shadow of the Dragon was originally established as a representation of the player character’s Wyld Hunt – which was indeed to kill Zhaitan at the time. The reason why it was made out of plants is because – so we were told – the Nightmare’s presence turned the representation into a physical manifestation using the world around it. You’re in a forest, what would something that’s becoming a physical manifestation using the world around it use? How about plants, which surround a forest?

Everything we were told about the Shadow of the Dragon was that it was a representation of Zhaitan. It even looks very similar to Zhaitan’s dragon champions in shape.

You mean since Prophecies. Just far more obviously since Eye of the North.

Happened to me too last night.

Mechanically the Tarnished Coast and Steamspur Mountains (well, Sparkfly+Maelstrom) are just one region (Maguuma Jungle). Lore wise, the Tarnished Coast is the coastline of the Maguuma Jungle. Maguuma Wastes, Magus Falls, and Tarnished Coast are all within the Maguuma Jungle geographical region.

Santcum Kay is more of Kryta than Maguuma/Tarnished Coast, though it’s currently the Dominion of Winds.

They actually established the Elder Dragons as being less physical beings a long time ago in Edge of Destiny. A line that immediately caught my eye from the book about Kralkatorrik is describing him as “more magical than physical”.

Which made me a bit disappointed in Zhaitan’s final fight even more than just the spamming a key.

Actually drax, the egg is said to be just a piece of the legacy which is a long term plan with many steps. This is said on the panels throughout Tarir, which are part of the achievement A Study in Gold.

But the idea of Glint returning in the form of the egg hatching wouldn’t be too surprising, especially after they recorded Glint’s voice for the Herald and made such a huge deal (and yet not) about Rytlock using herald skills.

The only thing I feel ArenaNet met expectations on that were made so high from all the hyping was the Exalted. In terms of story/lore, that is.

Of course, I never wanted the Exalted to be mursaat so I’m sure many will disagree there.

Rata Novus has also been great, but it was not hyped up at all. A full mystery to discover and I thank ArenaNet for that. Should consider that more often.