Firstly, not all golems are powered by elementals – it’s really just a case of “magic empowers them, the source varies.” As such, technically speaking souls being used to empower golems has already existed for quite some time. There’s the Oola’s Lab event where Oola’s soul is used to empower her strongest golem there. The Inquest are well known for experimenting with soul-empowered golems as well.
As for retaining memories and consciousness – it varies from the examples we’re given but in large the answer is “yes”. But among those same examples, one (Oola) is capable of entering and leaving the golem at will – so it’s more of a “ghost in the machine” piloting than being a powersource. The souls used by the Inquest tend to be unable to control the golem’s actions most of the time.
@Argon: I can’t really see making such a fight viable though…
@Randulf: I doubt that they encountered destroyer harpies, risen humans, branded minotaurs, or mordrem stoneheads.
Those are all modern dragon minions. So the fight was likely based off of the Pact Commander’s own knowledge of dragon minions.
Otherwise I’d expect an icebrood jotun, a branded mursaat, a risen Forgotten, and a mordrem Seer.
If the “return of Zhaitan” is limited to a single raid, and ends right there, then I don’t think it would be “bad writing because they have 4 living Elder Dragons to use against us”. It would be more of “an attempt to fix the bad fight without fixing the bad fight”. Bad writing or good writing depends solely on how they do it.
Though given the location, I’m inclined to think it’s not related to Zhaitan, TBH. It was a thought I tossed out.
Exalted
The thing is more about (how in the story and not in the open world), we meet him, he helps us and then he shows us something they could have fabricated.
We are still under the asumption that Mordremoth is able to mess with our minds and since we met him, we got split from the group and run around alone with the exalted.
We then even proceed to just give them the egg.
That’s a lot of work for mere fabrication.
Plus Mordremoth showed no signs of influencing non-sylvari, and it was clear from the interaction with Faolain – at least to me – that Ruka was not allied with the mordrem.
Yes, things point there. I blame the rushed story then. Why do we always have to give in so easily…
I don’t think the egg part was rushed at all.
Keep in mind that we’ve had the egg plot since Season 2. You cannot think of HoT as standalone. S2 and HoT are basically two halves to the same story, the same plot, unlike the PS and S1.
They could have added a line referring to the Pale Tree vision, but that would just be to remind folks/tell those who didn’t do S2 of that fact.
No one in the falls?
I cant really believe that. We know of the Asura, sure, but we know the White Mantle are at least went in the jungle area.
Also there were several hundreds of years and thanks to our GW1 heroes knowledge of what can be found there. I mean, there is even a temple to Balthazar here, which could have been a place to pilgrim too after it was rediscovered.
The White Mantle seem to have kept to the north, in old centaur lands. The Exalted came into being after GW1, so there is no “several hundreds of years” – there’s just 200 years. In the time of GW1, the only inhabitants there were asura – mainly just one: Zinn – and the Shining Blade, who left for Kryta. The White Mantle never went close to the Magus Falls, the druids were gone, leaving only the two hylek sun-species, and Rata Novus (originating from Zinn).
Rata Novus
Well, we are still talking about Asura. I ebt they have some nice telescopes around.
However yeah. The map doesnt have to be accurate.
Telescopes can’t see through mountains/lush jungles, or through the ground – keep in mind that only one pyramid is above the surface; the rest of Rata Novus is deep underground.
Inquest
So nothings speaks against the idea that the Inquest could have been from ancestors or survivors of Rata Novus.If they are a recent group, the basic of their Dragon research could have been from Rata Novus.
We dont know who survived. If it is the back stabbing personal gain kind of Asura who mostly got out, then it could easily become Inquest down the line.
I he is the ancestor of a former Rata Novus Asura, he can still be taught by Snaff.
He just might have had another hidden agenda, thanks to his parents.Well it doesnt have to be, but I like the Idea. I am just unsure about the timeline, though.
Guild
Oh, its that easy? I want a memo as well next time, since apearently I am the Boss now as well.
When did that happen, then? The PS epilog said, that I killed Zaihan alongside DE, if I am not msitaken, and then I wandered around alone gathering my new friends to take down Scarlet, all while they joke about creating their own guild.
When did the transition and inititation happen? Off screen again?
It happened more as a “word of mouth” added the Pact Commander as a member of DE for bringing them together and fighting beside them and being friends with all of them. For all intents and purposes, the Pact Commander was a member. Just not officially. And as news spreads, it twists a bit, and suddenly “one of DE’s students assisted their reunion and fight alongside them” to “the Pact Commander joined DE, reunited them, and fight with the guild to bring down Zhaitan.”
If you re-read the Pale Tree’s dialogue, that seems fairly obvious.
Clothes and armor
Well, he could use their body as a base and deform them. Like everyone else. Its not like he enhanced the others as well (Faolain, moredrem Guard…). I count it more alongside the mordrem frogs we meet, who are jus a darker tone in color, aka reused model
Everywho else?
Mordrem hyleks don’t use clothing (and it’s more than darker tone – look closely and you will see young bark textures). Nor do mordrem saurians. The Mordrem Guard aren’t even grown but physically changed just as Caithe and Canach did.
The Dream
He is a Necro and a Fristborn. Yes he could be a conduit, but something like that could have been introduced earlier. I accept the pale tree, as she is the creator, but without a hint, it comes around as very easy solution to a significant problem.
He also has a strong connection to Caladbolg due to all his time carrying it – which he explains – and Caladbolg is a piece of the Pale Tree.
Pale Tree is not the creator of the Dream, but its caretaker. Big difference.
Kassmeer
I know. She just really jumped in scope, when we consider our gamemechanics. It just feels disconected.
On one side she is the sheltered noble (her comments to ansty things for example) and then she is suddenly the master ninja. Yes she had the abilities. However she now uses them in the midst of enemy territory and has no problems with it.
The sheltered noble disappeared at the end of S1, if you were paying attention. It’s not sudden at all. She had the entire Season 2 as well as Scarlet’s End instance to go from sheltered noble to wild adventurer.
And she did.
Epilog
I dont like waiting for Elite Content Side Stories/bridge to new content and fill in the gap LS3 . I like my traditional epilog.
However, that might just be me.
Me neither, but this isn’t the first time ArenaNet’s added an epilogue soemtime after release.
On another note: did you bother talking to the NPCs after Hearts and Mind, in that open instance? They change dialogue before and after doing that.
Taimi
Yep, in that area. Let them swarm in after her protecors are gone MUHAHAHA
Open world meta event. Do it.
Rata Novus Escape
Which was broken like the one we got in. Also, the nice green star didnt point to the gate, but towards the way we got in, so technicaly we are still there and everythign after it is just a hallucination, thanks to us starving.But seriously. The thing was broken. How did we get out?
It wasn’t broken. The one we came through was broken.
Big golden City. Even if it didnt shine, they were big ruins. Someone who wandered there might have noticed.
Big golden city that didn’t exist in GW1.
Where is the epilogue to help process Trahearne’s death? I’m flippin sad here
I’m not sure if folks noticed, but you can talk to the five iconic/biconic NPCs in the final open-instance again and they have different dialogue than if you talk to them before completing Hearts and Minds for the first time.
I did notice the saltwater – a lot of folks did. But while gargantuan minions wouldn’t be surprising, I can’t say that the DSD “doesn’t have minions” as the very first – and most reliable case of his existence – states that it twists water into tentacled creatures. That would be minions.
The saltwater was clearly done so as to keep the DSD’s minions a secret… but honestly, I think it would have been better for them to make a single minion and toss it in.
It’s been explicitly stated that the Deep Sea Dragon awoke in the Unending Ocean. While that covers about 3/4th of the world, that definitely does not include the Jade Sea.
My estimations actually point to the DSD awaking south of Sunrise Crest (the continent west of Tyria).
Also, we know for a fact that Cantha’s not in utter chaos. You might have missed it, but during Festival of the Winds (the prologue for S2), the Zephyrites talked about their previous landing location – while they never gave a name, they brought decorations from the place. Marjory Delaqua, known to be of Canthan descent, comments about how the decorations reminds her of her grandfather’s possessions from his homeland (or something to the degree). One can easily piece together that the Zephyrite’s previous location was Cantha, and the Zephyrites described it as a beautiful place full of culture.
A place in utter chaos or even at war would not fit such a description.
@Darali: You forgot karka.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
- What was the Egg for and why do we give it away so easily?
The first’s answer is told – as much as ArenaNet seems intent to do – in the achievement A Study in Gold, as well as the final cinematic. If you don't mind not seeing it yourself...Basically Glint's legacy is *NOT* the egg. The egg is merely part of it. It's blatantly stated that the legacy's entirety will remain unclear until the end - in other words ArenaNet wants this to be the mystery defacto numero uno of GW2. It is the main plot now, not the Elder Dragons. And the legacy, when completed, will "change all civilization." - whether that's good or bad we'll find out later.
And we didn’t give it away so easily, but only after learning the Exalted’s story and seeing the city of gold which we knew from the beginning (the Pale Tree’s vision) that was the egg’s intended destination.
- Why did no one find the exalted in all these years?
No one lived in Magus Falls for centuries. Those who did, did find the exalted. But they – the Rata Novans – were themselves secretive and isolated.
- Why were there nobles in the attack?
They explain this if you talk to them at the beginning and throughout the meta event chain for them. Basically, Faren had this bright idea of “hey, the Pact Fleet defeated Zhaitan so easily so clearly they’ll defeat Mordremoth even easier since they’re prepared for Elder Dragon fights, have more resources, and Mordremoth’s just woken, so why don’t we get our own airship (”Faren’s Flyer") and watch the show!"
If you think that’s weird, it, sadly, isn’t so far off from how things were in American (and likely all of the world’s) history. The story reminds me very much of a historical fact I learned back in highschool about the American Civil War. Basically, the richer nobles back then would go out to hills overlooking battlefields… and have picnics as the armies fought.
Suffice it to say, not all of those picnickers survived.
- Why is Rata Novus, supposeldy visible from Rata Sum, not visible?
Thick jungles and mountains in the way. Plus supposedly that pyramid isn’t all that huge.
Also you have to keep in mind that Tyria’s distance is much much larger than what we see in-game. From the lore distance there is, that pyramid likely looks like just some simple uninteresting mountain in the far distance.
- Are Inquest part of former Rata Novus survivors?
Unlikely but not impossible. You make this correlation due to the interest in studying the Elder Dragons, correct? There’s a flaw in that correlation though:
First, Kudu was the one heading the Inquest’s study of dragon energy, and was doing so for his personal gain. Supposedly, before him and his being taught by Snaff, the Inquest didn’t have such an interest.
Second, Inquest study Elder Dragons to take control of them. Rata Novus studied Elder Dragons to kill them.
And third, we’re told that the Inquest isn’t that old. We don’t know how old, however. More importantly, however, is that we were told on why the Inquest were formed – to avoid losing the knowledge that was lost when The Great Destroyer forced the asura to the surface.
- How is “our” guild called?
Destiny’s Edge. In S2, the Pale Tree calls you a member of Destiny’s Edge, even though the PC denies it. With Braham and Marjory starting on about “our guild”, and seemingly including Rytlock, that means it’s not “DE 2.0” but “DE’s new members”.
- Why can we suddenly, without a problem enter the dream?
Why could we during A Light in the Darkness?
The action is the same in both cases. Using a conduit to enter the Dream. The conduit the first time is the Pale Tree. The second time it’s Trahearne.
- Why does Mordremoth copy clothes and armor?
I’m placing that under “mechanics”. Would be weird to fight Logan and Zojja in their underwear.
- Since when is Kasmeer a teleport ninja sneaky expert? I know she theoreticly can, but I want that as well. I am a mesmer.
See Season 2 Episode 1. She teleports everyone in two instances twice. For the sneaky bit: See Tower of Nightmares. In the first instance where you meet up with them outside the tower to see the unveiling, she was keeping herself and Marjory invisible (though her hicups gave away their position). It was also a perma-invisibility until you reached them.
- Why did we bring Braham along?
Because Ka-Braham!
No, not really. Uh… cuz he’s friends?
Yeah, I got nothing.
- How come LA does know about what happened?
Where’s this stated?
Though given that they outright confirmed the canonocity of the Mordrem Invasions with Canach’s dialogue, that means that word got out incredibly fast to the Durmand Priory, and that also means the dialogue from during the rebuilding of LA (before the rebuilt part) is also canon, which means that the Order of Whispers were recalling all troops due to the few survivors of the crash.
How that can all happen in 24 hours it beyond me though!
- Why was there no Scarlet clone?
Because HoT is full of community pandering, as obvious with Trahearne, and they thankfully also listened to the hatred of Scarlet.
- Why is there no epilog?
I’m gonna say “wait for the raid release, since that’s post-HoT we might see something”.
- How did we get out of Rata Novus?
There was a second asura gate where that instance ended.
- How did Taimi survive in an infested place?
We cleared the infestation. In that area, at least.
Seeing there is much unclear, I think it would be cool if we could get some of the writing team to do an AMA thread. I think we could need some clarification on some of HoT stuff and maybe hear the writers’ reasoning behind some decisions.
I agree. I would like this.
And from both the cinematic during The All as well as the Trial of Strength during City of Hope, it’s most likely that the DSD awoke between Primordus and Jormag. Primordus awoke in 1120 AE, and Jormag in 1165 AE. That would place the DSD’s awakening between those two dates – all possibilities lying before 1173 when Rata Novus fell.
No, they are not. The “enraged form” is a natural part of their biology, and they don’t really look like Mordrem at all.
Quaggans are far too spread out, coming from both the north and south, and dragon minions are generally nigh mindless. The only reason why Mordrem Guard aren’t is because they were sylvari and don’t seem to be corrupted – one of them is far enough away from Mordremoth’s call and regains itself in Act 3 (side achievement). Why sylvari are not mindless is still a question that hasn’t been answered.
There’s also no Elder Dragon who’s minions are fleshy. The closest we got was Mordremoth with plants. Unless the DSD turns out to be an Elder Dragon of Animals, no flesh and blood creature will be Elder Dragon minions.
Further, Dragon minions do not reproduce. Quaggan clearly do.
Agreed it would be odd for Yassith to make the whole Exalted group alone, but the Forgotten are heavily implied if not outright stated to be extinct with only one remaining during the writing of those tablets.
Mind you, the date of the tablets isn’t clear as it seems written prior to the Exalted going into hibernation, yet the Forgotten mentions Glint’s death which occurred in 1320 – 8 years prior to HoT.
That’s not how I understood him, nor would it make much sense for a group of entities that were very clearly ethereal (read: not fleshy) make a fleshy body without any materials that is flesh.
Further, in the video when the camera went to Gorseval’s back, he explained that the blue bubble-like thing was where the souls remain, and that if you look closely you could even see them. And you, in fact, can – the white streaks have a face at their beginnings.
@Mushroomz: That only means it was made out of human bodies. That’s what it sounds like Gorseval is. A fleshy construct made to house souls. The souls themselves are in that blue back bubble-area.
@Mickey: I wouldn’t consider it “Bugs and Souls” though I certainly see how you weren’t there. I’ve been thinking Jormag is souls though. I think just like how Zhaitan trapped souls, the DSD might have too.
In the end, most likely scenario is likely to be “Gorseval is a titan” or something along those lines, being freed from the Realm of Torment. And that the Chak are just never-known-before ley line eating bugs.
But my Elite Specialization still says I need Hero Points. Used to be, every post 80 “level” generated a HP, if I recall, thus allowing players to build them up steadily even without doing skill challenges.
That changes ages ago.
Skill points were given by leveling and by completing skill challenges. When the specialization update came back in June, they changed how it functioned and split the skill points into two new currencies: spirit shards and hero points.
Hero points you get by leveling up beneath 80 and hero challenges. No other way to get them.
So question: how do I build up my HP to unlock the 200 points (or whatever) need to complete my Elite Specialization? It can’t just be through skill challenges alone can it?
Yes. It is. You can get 214 hero points from hero challenges prior to HoT maps. Leveling to 80 will give you all the hero points you need for all core skills and traits – placing you at 0 without doing any hero challenges.
With HoT, you can get another 400 hero points from hero challenges.
It is not possible to fully unlock your elite specialization without doing some HoT content. If you get 210 hero challenges in core content, you’ll need 4 hero challenges from HoT to fully unlock the elite specialization.
Only gonna respond to OP:
On suggestion one: Plausible, however not for reasons you say I’d wager. Keep in mind that off-screen the Priory retrieved Zhaitan’s tail and have been running tests on it. So while we don’t see his corpse, the Pact certainly has.
The “fireworks” was only the finishing touch, but the laser, the grappling hooks, and the “fireworks” were all empowered by Gorr’s research and experimental weapons, as well as the laser that took on Tequatl which was in turn improved not only by that encounter but also by Snaff and Kudu’s research on Elder Dragons’ magical energies.
The three weapons the Glory of Tyria had were basically designed for the sole purpose of poisoning Zhaitan’s magic and using that against him. That’s why it was so effective. They used prototypes on risen, found them effective but wanting, improved them off-screen, and used the upgraded versions on Zhaitan himself.
If you take note, you might see how Zhaitan’s body begins to literally fall apart when he’s struck by the grappling hooks (after the laser). His arm just slumps off, skin stretching until it’s just a rotten pile of immobile flesh falling to the ground far below, and one of his largest wings was next – which was why he grabbed onto the tower.
The fight was mechanically sad, but lorically logical.
Re: Orrian royalty and Priests. Keep in mind that every eye we encounter – and not encountering repeats, we encounter at least 10 that I can count off the top of my head- were the kings and queens. So while not many are named out, there’s quite a few. And that doesn’t count any not turned into Eyes, and we don’t know what the Mouths were before death – or what bodies were used to make Abominations, what the Risen Knights and Risen Wraiths were, or what made the undead dragons.
For priests – they were “the last ones”. Maybe Zhaitan saw they fulfilled their roles enough to not raise the others. Perhaps the older ones were simply too far gone – that’s no doubt a huge issue for Zhaitan. He may found no point in animating a pile of bones that were exceedingly brittle.
Re: “a summoned creature should be dead if the summoner is dead”
Not always. In GW1, for example, Necromancer minions remained after the necromancer’s death but they went erratic and would attack anything on sight.
However, it should be noted that risen are not typical undead. They are not “summoned” by any means of the word. All dragon minions are autonomous to the entirety, though intelligence and strength vary with the most common versions being nigh mindless – intelligence and strength seem to be based on the corruption put into them; the more corruption, the stronger and smarter they are.
On Suggestion 2
That would, in all honesty, be a terrible twist. And one I doubt ArenaNet would do. They made it clear from day 1 – and made it clear with HoT – that the PC will ALWAYS be the good guy. No matter what. Even with the rest of their race turned to dragon minions, almost everyone still treated the Pact Commander with the respect of their rank (only like 3 NPCs have I encountered doing otherwise on my sylvari – albeit, I haven’t gotten far at all in the story on that alt).
About Mordremoth “using Trahearne’s voice”. There’s something that I’ve noticed about Mordrem Guard. Simply put: they’re not corrupted by Mordremoth. He whispers into their minds to convince them to do his bidding. But in Act 3 – in the Rata Novus instance, there is a Mordrem Guard underground who reacts like Canach. The Mordrem Guard says that the “voice is quiet here”.
So Mordremoth doesn’t control sylvari – Mordrem Guard or otherwise. He merely convinces them to act.
What’s interesting, however, is their physical change – with Canach it was established in S1 that strong psychological changes could influence their appearance. This is why he looks so different in S2E7’s flashback instance – this is why Caithe looked so different in those flashbacks too, now having Wynne’s hair because killing Wynne was so impactful. The Mordrem Guard are no different – their appearance into “rank and file” copies are due to the psychological change caused by Mordremoth’s mental whisperings – by all indication at least.
So why, then, was Trahearne’s appearance changing? Something to think about. Though it should be noted that he was never all that strong willed during the personal story.
Still, I don’t think Mordremoth took over the Commander. Why? Simple: we couldn’t play the game. It would be a game over.
The Pact Commander has the most invulnerable plot armor there would ever be in a game.
Suggestion 3
We have explored Arah. All of it. It’s called the explorable dungeon. Though the fight with Zhaitan happens over land not in the explorable dungeon, this isn’t in Arah itself but to its east.
It’s possible that the raid will deal with this, one of the theories is that at least. Either way, I don’t think they should bring Zhaitan back full-force right away.
Re: “c. While the player is in progress of attaining ascension to fight off the insidious Mordremoth, perhaps the player might receive a vision from ascendants of the past warning that Abaddon is taking a advantage of the chaos in Tyria/complete absence of the human Gods and is slowly acquiring power to revive himself? Possibility joined by Dhuum and Menzies? This could bring the player to Elona and gather what remains of the Sunspears to take down Palawa Joko and Abaddon.”
Abaddon is dead. He will not return. This has been confirmed by devs many times.
(EDIT: Furthermore, so are the Sunspears gone. Wiped out by Joko centuries ago. Check out The Movement of the World.)
That said, why would Ascension – which allows one to see the spirits hiding in the overlap of Tyria and The Mists – block out Mordremoth’s possession?
Why would Dhuum/Menzies deal with Elona? Why would Abaddon even if he were alive (don’t say Nightfall – the only tie Abaddon had to Elona in Nightfall was Varesh and she’s long dead).
Overall, I don’t like your suggestions as they are. It seems overly cliched and not really working for the story direction that ArenaNet is very clearly going for – and not only that, but wouldn’t work in an MMO setting. This plot might work very well in a single player game where you’re not playing a character you designed personally (aka not an RPG), however.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Yeah, the lack of dialogue box talking was an oddity to me. I think S2 shared this aspect for some story steps – but not all.
I really liked it in the PS, though it makes documenting the wiki a pain (primarily due to the lack of repeating in the PS).
I think you really missed on stuff for Caithe, because it’s more than two sentences and does make sense even if it’s a very terrible explanation and no one was happy with her.
As for the egg, it’s pretty clear that the story for Glint’s legacy is far from over. While not explained in the actual story it is indicated through the open world of Auric Basin – primarily the achievement A Study in Gold, which lets you get the brand new bloodstone dust eater (I am loving the lore scavenger hunt achievements in the HoT maps – the whole two of them, it sadly seems – FAR better than the legendary collections that’s for sure).
You can find some in the gem store already
Some GW1 armor, yes, but not FoW armor. :P
There is, however, also some GW1 (scrapped) armor from the Hall of Monuments.
Core Gw2 gated it’s story chapters by the necessity to log in shortly after said story chapter was released.
Meaning, if you were not logged in while the chapter was still new (I don’t know how long that period was), you had to buy it afterwards.
I don’t own HOT yet, but am curious if this philosophy is still valid in this version of GW2.
If I buy HOT few months from now, will I be required to buy story or any of it’s chapters separately? If so, how long is this grace period where you get all HOT story free, included in the price of HOT?
Short answer: No.
Long answer:
The original personal story is not gated any way, shape, or form in terms of owning it. You’re gated in leveling – so is some HoT story instances (the four Acts, in fact, are gated by masteries not counting the first two of Act 1 – well, three of the four Acts now, given that the last mastery gate was removed).
The unlocking-for-free gating that you’re talking about was done for Season 2, part of the Living World – not around for Season 1 as Anet at the time wanted to have a “always progressing” world, which didn’t settle well for players given that they cannot play constantly and thus would miss out on the story (and many did – even myself at some points) as well as the achievement points.
The expansion is not part of the Living World updates. However, Season 3 will require HoT ownership to both play and unlock – so even if you log in GW2 when Season 3’s episodes release, but you don’t own HoT you won’t unlock them. Or so it is implied – hopefully ArenaNet will change that when Season 3 begins. Do note that we do not yet have an ETA on Season 3.
Curiously it does that showing bug for all story steps. Ran through on my alt the other day and after completing the first story step (Torn from the Sky), it told me I had to get gliding mastery (for something that’s actually rather silly in the story – a single NPC you need to glide to in the open world).
So having watched that guild chat episode in the full, and I am now convinced that the above theory is 100% wrong.
Ronald makes a CRITICAL slip of the tongue after talking about how it’s formed and talking more about its animation.
@29:05:
“I didn’t want to make something generic and, you know, something we’ve seen before in other dragon-ah.”
He cuts himself after saying “dragon” and returns talking to the model animation.
Gorseval also has tentacles, a stated case of DSD corruption.
I think Gorseval is a dragon champion of the DSD, given that the raid is said to be about the “next story” and there are hints to the DSD coming soon in HoT promotion/HoT’s ending (we got that three dragon heads rising from tidal waves assaulting LA, ley line energy going to the Unending Ocean at HoT end, we got Chak burring from depths but what’s in the depths layer of the Tangled Depths? huge underwater tunnels – Drax promoted the theory Chak are DSD dragon minions and Gorseval isn’t all that different from them – more of an undead than insectoid version).
The tentacles – compared to spinal cords – also reminds me of the tentacles that grew in the karka hive a bit to me.
And about Chak/Gorseval/DSD connection… Chak hives have bone tendril-looking tentacle spirals in their hives. Curious…
Alternatively, could it be Zhaitan returning? They didn’t say human souls, as far as I’m aware. What if they’re dragon souls?
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Ossa was somewhat relevant, as he plays a role in S2 which is a leadup to HoT. And while not direct, the Forgotten have a relevance to the story.
The river flows from the west, not north, and doesn’t even run through Caledon Forest. The river ends in Brisban Wildlands and runs from Metrica Province – there is a split where it runs towards Caledon and towards the Sea of Sorrows, but that’s also flowing outward from the west.
The beginning of the river is actually near Tangled Depths (as you see on the world map there’s that big scar-shaped river) and, originally, flowed all the way to The Falls.
So a little interesting note/trivia:
The ascended prefix for Viper stat gear in HoT, available from the Exalted mastery vendors,s is named after a Forgotten from the Crystal Desert in GW1: Sariss Yassith (Yassith’s).
In A Study of Gold, it mentions “the last Forgotten” is the speaker of the words inscribed. Is Yassith this “last Forgotten”?
Would be an interesting play to GW1, given he speaks of Ascension (Ascended stats), and is used for the attribute quests back then.
It seems to me more that those vines are “grown from” but not “Mordremoth’s actual body”.
A bit of semantics here, do you mean the vines were grown from and then separated from his body, or are still physically connected? In the later case I’d argue they are part of his body.
Would you consider hair to be part of the human body? It can be detached without any form of pain to the individual. Fingernails as well.
So yeah, a bit of semantics, but I would compare it to hair or fingernails. Grown out of the body, can remain attached or detached.
I ment that in the way that Zhaitan’s magical connection to the eyes and mouths seems stronger than even to his other champions. When we kill one we can hear him roar, which could interpreted as him actually feeling it physically. Also it says he actually sees through the eyes and feeds through the mouths. So I’d say despite not having a physical connection they are part of Zhaitan’s body like all these vines are part of Mordremoth’s body.
I can agree with the stronger magical connection – that seems pretty evident. However, I disagree on the feeling physical pain because Zhaitan roars when Whiting is killed in the novel (as do all risen roar in unison).
Zhaitan knows what all his minions know and dragon minions in general consume magic. The Eyes and Mouths of Zhaitan were just specialized to do these things all risen do, but much much better.
Hmm… I don’t think that’s entirely going to be the case.
First, while close the Bloodstone isn’t on the map, unless they’re shifting the raid map’s position from BWE3 or using a bloodstone that isn’t the Bloodstone Fen one. Per the original map dug out by that_shaman, Gorseval would be further north than The Wilds. Completely out of GW1 lands. So would anything, really, as the Vale Guardian’s platform would be at the western edge of The Wilds.
Regarding the soul batteries “losing power” – I don’t think so. The soul batteries were all taken to the Ring of Fire. So it wouldn’t be a case of “soul batteries losing their power”, as they wouldn’t be left there. However, that doesn’t mean the White Mantle haven’t continued making new uses for soul batteries for some other purpose. Souls are, after all, power. In the raid, it is possible we kill some White Mantle, destroy a threat via destroying soul batteries, which unleashes a mass amount of souls that then creates Gorseval via the corpses of the White Mantle we killed.
However, I posit a different potential given that we’re off the GW1 map with the raid:
Above Gorseval in the trailer, we see a massive swirling vortex of blue and black. This vortex is NOT one of a kind. Not entirely. Those who played Ascent to Madness this year may have looked up at the sky to see a massive swirling vortex of black and orange, with kitten that leads into Lion’s Arch (the original portal that Thorn made back in 2012).
There’s also a part where we have to outrun a stampede of hostile souls (perhaps the very souls that make up Gorseval).
Further, the place is called Spirit Vale. Does this name seem… similar to anyone?
My theory?
We’re going into the Mists – possibly the Underworld – with this raid. And Gorseval is a titan.
So I’m not the only one to consider the notion that Glint was not actually this benevolent good ol’ dragon mama, that GW1 led us to believe she is? Wouldn’t be the first time Anet used this trope (Charr and human occupation of Ascalon). The thing that I find especially troubling is what Ogden said in ‘Echoes of the Past’ episode of Season 2 – that Glint was well on her way to becoming an Elder Dragon herself. As far as we know, Elder Dragons are not the most friendly creatures in the world. Glint having a hidden sinister agenda would make for a quite an interesting plot, where e.g races of Tyria are essentially used as tools to get rid of the other dragons that stand in Glints way.
If Glint was bent on world domination, she did a very bad job of it given that she sacrificed her life for the possible chance of offing her former master.
Actually, it’s said way earlier, in one of the the Living World chapters that the vines are Mordremoth.
Taimi’s statement in S2 is not only theoretical, but grossly taken out of proportion by players and not the same as what Trahearne said.
Taimi said that the vines attacking the waypoints – and only those – are likely growing from Mordremoth’s own body. Those giant unmoving (after initial growth) ones are corruption, while the smaller tendrils are minions, she explained.
Trahearne says that Mordremoth is his corruption – that he can regrow his body from any of those large, unmoving (after initial growth) vines.
Also, in Auric Basin, an Exalted Sage says, while you’re cleansing the Font of the Maguuma, that the Mordrem are “extensions of the jungle by virtue of Mordremoth” or maybe he says the dragon? Regardless, all of the Mordrem and vines are a manifestation of his corruption.
This is more metaphorical in the fact that mordrem are all plants and it is vast vegetation that make up a jungle. This is why he isn’t “the plant dragon” but “the jungle dragon” – because his vast corruption creates vast vegetation aka a jungle.
As far as the mouth of Mordremoth… it’s a bit of a misnomer, while it’s clearly not Mordremoth, he definitely is in control of it and seems to almost use it as his physical body. But then there’s that wackiness with Trahearne.
Having fought the Mouth of Mordremoth last night, I can say with 100% complete certainty that the Mouth of Mordremoth is indeed Mordremoth itself.
The voice is exactly the same. The tone is exactly the same. It speaks as if it were Mordremoth, sounding like it, and commands the three Mordrem Guard commanders. Furthermore:
And lastly, it’s all so complicated between the shadow of the dragon, trahearne, the mouth of mordremoth, and mordremoth himself in his mind that it seems to be meaningless to say “Oh that’s him!”, because it seems to very well be all of them at once.
Mordremoth was never the Shadow of the Dragon; regarding the others – Mouth of Mordremoth = Mordremoth’s physical body by all indication, and Trahearne seems to be where he goes in his death throes, so yes Trahearne does “become” Mordremoth, but Mordremoth isn’t all those things at once – he’s one, then the other.
The one thing I do not understand, we kill Mordremoth’s mind, and yet, it doesn’t die because it still exists within Trahearne… but we accessed him mind through Trahearne? So how is it still there? And only Trahearne’s death releases all of the magic Mordremoth has absorbed back to the world…
I don’t think we ever killed his mind. When we fought him in the Dream, we see Mordremoth take two forms: the shadowy face in the sky, which we never touch, and the limbed avatar he uses to fight back.
I believe that rather than killing his mind, we just killed his mind’s manifestation within the Dream, forcing him out of it.
How I see it, we killed Mordremoth by doing three things nigh simultaneously:
The thing I like to note, Mordremoth’s death caused a huge outflow/release of magic, spreading along the ley-lines, one went to Tahir and the egg, and two flows went elsewhere (One to rata novus maybe?). However, zhaitan’s “Death” did not do the same. So I think Zhaitan may have simply been forced back into dormancy, while Mordremoth is dead dead.
While possible, I’d like to point out the death of the Mouth of Mordremoth. As I said above in this post, he flashes the same color that we see being ley line magic in the cinematics of both S1’s end and HoT’s end. It wasn’t nearly as colorful as the cinematics which are depicting a far-vantage and player-perspective (not character-perspective) thus likely doesn’t show what Tyrians would see.
I kind of doubt that there’d be a line of white-blue going from Lion’s Arch to Thaumanova after Scarlet’s death. Further, IIRC, no one reported seeing a flash of light. Something so grand with Scarlet’s battle would have been noted.
Given this, that flash of light we see coming solely at Mouth of Mordremoths’ body is likely how we would see an explosion of magic along ley lines.
Zhaitan’s body, when it ‘died’, was covered by fog and mist. Thus we wouldn’t be able to see it without ArenaNet showing a fancy cinematic.
Technically, the Pale Tree isn’t an entire map, and not even all of The Grove. Keep in mind that city maps are much smaller than standard zone maps like HoT’s. Further, we see not one, not two, not even three, but at least eight gigantic trees in HoT – five of which are Blighting Trees which are the mordrem version of Pale Trees. Three of said Blighting Trees are in Dragon’s Stand.
Doesn’t anet tend to reuse the body frames? Like tengu and charr have the same frame IIRC. I imagine karka, destroyer crabs, and chak all share the same frame.
Adult karka have unique skeletons. Young Karka share with Scuttlers and Air Elementals/Sparks. Hatchlings are unique skeletons too.
HoT’s epilogue will, hopefully, be coming with the raid update since the raid does include story and will be post-HoT. Further, the raid hints to the next plot, so we were told.
S3 will likely be released with the second part of the raid and probably carry off of it at that point. Said second raid wing is said to release early 2016 (e.g., Q1). Since we know they’re going to the next story with the raid, S3 will likely only be mildly connected to HoT just kitten was to the PS.
However, I suspect that overall, all future stories will be related to Glint’s legacy. The achievement A Study in Gold makes it clear that the egg and the Exalted is only a fraction of Glint’s plans and that the outcome will “change all civilization” (paraphrasing what was said). Given this – whether it was intended from the beginning or not – it seems that the overall GW2 plot is not “Elder Dragons” but “Glint’s Legacy”.
As to the content future Living World gives. I think ArenaNet managed to find their comfort zone with Season 2. Given S2 had a second break solely due to holidays, and the first break was so long due to Halloween, I’d say that each season will consist of two sets of four releases with each set giving one new map, with 1-2 months between, and a prologue and epilogue (prologue for S2 was Festival of the Four Winds; epilogue could be considered to be the Mordrem Invasion since that’s been made canon – prologue for S1 could be considered The Lost Shores, while epilogue was definitely Aftermath). Given this, I’d argue each season would take 7 months with some months between. So if S3 starts early Q1 2016, it’d end early/mid Q3 2016, and we will see S4 ending in mid-Q1 2017. If they take as much time to make another expansion after a LW season as with HoT, we’d see Expansion 2 around december 2017. So sayeth my prediction.
As for areas:
I would love for them to explain the unanswered questions of Malyck and the Dream/Nightmare/Mordremoth connection, but I honestly think they will just leave those dangling forevermore.
North of Brisban has been there a long time, I wouldn’t be surprised if we never go there. That said, I would like to see Majesty’s Rest and the canon fate of Rotscale. That also said, it’s been confirmed that future LW seasons will require HoT. So chances are so will their maps. So it would be obnoxious from non-HoT players’ view to turn that into a S3 zone which cannot be entered unless they bought the expansion since it’s been teasing us forever.
Alcazia Tangle would be a good spot for a guild hall, IMHO, if they ever want to add some to the core regions. However, that could be a good source for going into a Primordus plot – in Edge of Destiny, we’re told that the Destroyer of Life that Destiny’s Edge kills is southeast of Rata Sum – that’s Alcazia Tangle area. That all said, though, that part of the map would overlap with the “orr copy” which is used for two Personal Story steps. I don’t know how ArenaNet does their cross-zoning but that may-or-may-not become an issue and if so that issue would force that spot to be forever barren of content.
Don’t quote me on this, but isn’t the first raid somewhere in your area 1? Living story and raids seem the most likely way they will expand the map in those areas, as far as I’m concerned.
Based on the map that_shaman pulled and where it was shown in BWE3, the raid is above Vinewrath. So just west of his placement for area 2.
You can even see the Spirit Vale area on the map he posted.
At that point Mordremoth’s ’mind’s shadow’ (as I call it – the black face we see in the mind) not only pops up behind him but resides solely within Trahearne. At that point he wouldn’t be “speaking through Trahearne” but instead being a “split personality of Trahearne that surfaced”.
As I see it, Mordremoth basically possessed Trahearne’s body. And I wouldn’t consider that “speaking through a minion”.
Well, the skritt you mentioned were, I believe, the skritt from the PS (just as the ogres were). I think that’s where Kalavier was going with his statement.
And @Kalavier: I agree that the Pact seems mostly in-tact, which really diminishes the “devastation” part. They hit a set-back, but with so many survivors I would hardly consider the Pact “all but gone” in either its literal or metaphorical meaning.
You mean the mouth? It’s stated in game that all those large vines you see are part of Mordremoth, that means he covers most of Magus Falls and stretches all the way into the Iron Marches.
It seems to me more that those vines are “grown from” but not “Mordremoth’s actual body”. And it’s just that his mind exists across all of his corruption, so simply destroying his ‘actual body’ (aka the Mouth of Mordremoth) is insufficient as he’d just regrow said body from his corruption like he reproduces the same mordrem by transferring their mind to a regrown body.
Yeah that’s what I ment. Counting all the vines would be a little excessive I think. Also we would have to count the mouths and eyes of Zhaitan too then, atleas in my opinion, since they seem to be quasi part of Zhaitan, like the vines are to Mordremoth.
I could see the argument that the eye which Eyes of Zhaitan hold are part of Zhaitan, plucked from one of Zhaitan’s many undead faces, but I don’t see how one could argue such for the Mouth of Zhaitan.
Better suited for the Guild Wars 2 forum not the lore forum.
Disregarding the fact that you did contradict your own claim by saying that Sylvari are freed minions and that freed minions can’t be corrupted again, which would mean that Mordremoth should not be able to control Sylvari, I do think that you shouldn’t stretch the fact that willpower can help you resist to an elder dragon too much.
You either completely misunderstood my post, didn’t read it fully, or are intentionally twisting my words to suit your own needs.
Let me give a tl;dr version so you don’t do any of the above. In order of your proclaimed “contradictions” that I made:
Both because the fact that there is just one other occasion where an elder dragon corrupted self-aware beings against their will, and that was when Kralkatorrik flew south, and even there we have an example of someone who was able to resist the dragon’s corruption: Almorra Soulkeeper.
It was confirmed that Almorra actually stood outside of the Dragonbrand in an interview. The book just portrayed this poorly.
Almost all other dragon minions we know of are either not self-aware or joined the dragon freely, with the exeption of the Kodan, eventhough they also have a strong connection to Koda, which itself is somehow connected to Jormag.
Dragon minion grunts are for all dragon minions effectively mindless. The lack of mindlessness is what was supposed to make the mordrem guard so much more devastating. Even regular mordrem are supposedly mindless. The exception to this mindless rule are lieutenants and champions – the more powerful they are, the more corruption was given to them, which also makes them more intelligent and capable of doing more things, including directing the weaker and dumber dragon minions.
I don’t know of anything that says all kodan are self-aware. We only see two, iirc, that are, and they could easily be considered “more powerful dragon minions”. And not all kodan have a connection to Koda – only the Voices do. And where the heck do you get that Koda is connected to Jormag?
This could explain the fact that neither Mordremoth, nor Kralkatorrik tried to kill the Pale Tree or Glint, instead of corruption them: Because both Glint and the Pale Tree have too much willpower to be corrupted.
And you say I’m the one taking the willpower thing too far.
Elder Dragons have shown time and time again to be able to corrupt anyone, and their personalities after being corrupted are completely different in almost every case. We see many cases of individuals going “the Elder Dragons must die” and after corruption going “you will serve the Dragon!” Willpower has nothing to do with standard corruption. But Mordremoth’s affect on the sylvari wasn’t standard corruption (just like how Jormag doesn’t typically do standard corruption).
It is also worth noting that both have a prophetic nature, which would probably help resisting an elder dragon.
The Pale Tree doesn’t have prophetic nature at all – the Dream, however, which is entirely different from the Pale Tree, does allow glimpses of the tangible future. And Glint had hers when she was a dragon champion serving Kralkatorrik – she used that power to help defend Kralkatorrik, as explained in Edge of Destiny.
The reason for the White Stag’s existence, is unknown, yet it is in no way proving that the Dream is not part of Mordremoth.
Except for how it explicitly stated to be protecting against Mordremoth?
Why would Mordremoth have a piece of himself resist him?
Malyck is not something you should argue with, because we either don’t know enough about him, or he is just poorly written (Speaking of: Why does he look like ‘our’ Sylvari?).
He explicitly states he has no Dream and no knowledge of what the PC or other sylvari are talking about when talking about the Dream and Nightmare multiple times. Poorly written or not, it’s a fact that he has no Dream.
Considering this, it makes even more sense that the Pale Tree is protecting the Sylvari by shielding the part of the Dream she has control over from Mordremoth.
If the Dream is a part of Mordremoth, how could the Pale Tree possibly control a piece of the Elder Dragon?
And I do think that Mordremoth is the source if the Dream, or rather the energy he represents is the source. But as we know, he doesn’t have control over the Dream entirely. It could very well be that the Dream is giving Wyld Hunts based on the experiences the Sylvari have carried into the Dream, rather than being decided by Mordremoth.
If the Dream comes from the sphere of power that Mordremoth represents/has control over, then it isn’t a part of Mordremoth at all. You just contradicted yourself. Again.
And I could keep arguing based on that that Malyck has a Dream, he is just too far away to notice it and his amnesia stops him from remebering his Dream, and I could keep arguing that Mordremoth is the source of the Dream, or is atleast part of the source of the Dream, since he is the only elder dragon that is able to control Sylvari through the Dream.
You don’t get disconnected from the internet because you can’t remember you have it – using your (rather poor, IMO) analogy. Nor does any other sylvari, regardless of distance to the Pale Tree, ever feel disconnected from the Dream to the point of feeling nothing – which is explicitly and multiply what Malyck says.
Mordremoth is able to influence (not control) sylvari through the Dream because he is the Elder Dragon of Minds. The Dream is linked to sylvari minds. 1+1=?
I like some of them.
“Did you see that? Tell me you saw that!” is a particular fun one for me when my male charr makes a combo.
But that wouldn’t really make sense for why the Nightmare also protects against Mordremoth.
The line definitely had Voice of Mordremoth listed in the chat window as the speaker. I saw it and was just “wait what?” then I chalked it first down as “well, we’re pretty much in his heart so it wouldn’t be surprising everyone could understand an Elder Dragon of mind this close to him” then when it was just dragon roaring in the next instance I chalked it down as “guess it was a bug.”
Did they not also say if an interview and game conflict, in game lore takes precedence? I will freely admit to misremembering the context though and am happy to be proved wrong.
Yeah, because Angel McCoy made a dozen mistakes in her interviews that were caught by we lore community, and ended up retconning Ree Soesbee with the claim of “it wasn’t documented on either internal or community wiki” (it was on the latter).
Before Angel took role as continuity designer, the game and interviews actually had continuity between them. So anything added before Jeff and Ree went MIA, IMO, remains cannon when not contradicted with retconning stuff like the Secondborn birth dates.
speaking of sylvari-charr, am I the only one who gets the impression that Mordrem Vinetenders are Mordrem Charr?
they have digitigrade legs, horns, hunched backs, poiny teeth (in what appears to be an approximation of a muzzle), “hair” on the back of their necks like charr have, and maintain the mordrem equivalent of siege weaponry, the only thing they lack is a tail.
they are clearly not Mordrem Quetzal, but other than charr, there aren’t any other races in the jungle for mordremoth to copy that would result in that shape.
That model is also called Mordrem Grunt, Mordrem Mender, and, get this, Mordrem Troll.
I take it those are the “copy-catting” mordrem version of trolls while the “hive trolls” are like the mordrem wolves – mordrem plants that are using corpses as puppets.
There are already minions of different elder dragons fighting one another in the open wirld occasionally and we can assume that there have been encounters between minions from different dragons, yet there is but one instance where we ever see beings being corrupted twice or more. And that is in CoE, where the Inquest was researching those energies. In the open world we never saw anything like that.
Not counting sylvari, where do we see dragon minions fight? The only time they come close to each other is the mordrem invasion in Iron Marches – one spot in there, even, and they don’t fight. The branded remain within the Dragonbrand, and the mordrem remain outside of it.
We never see any encounter between minions of different Elder Dragons, except for in CoE, and only in CoE do we see a combination of dragon energies in a being. Three times.
We also know for a fact that energy from different dragons is opposed to each other,
Pure speculation, not fact. If it is a fact, please provide a source. Because I’ve never seen it and the only “explanation” for this so called “fact” is that the dragons’ orbs are on opposite sides of each other on The All – but when the Elder Dragons encircle Tyria in a 2d depiction of The All, of course they’d be on opposite sides! But nowhere is it said they have opposite energy. It’s nothing more than player supposition.
Just another bandwagon theory like how the Exalted were mursaat.
which is a result of the fact that the dragons try to consume all magic, which includes the magic of other elder dragons.
It’s also pure player speculation that the Elder Dragons would try to consume the magic of other elder dragons. Developer statements actually state that how the Elder Dragons view each other is fully unknown because there is no interaction observed.
Further, this statement is contradictory. Corruption is a result of Elder Dragons consuming magic. If they cannot corrupt another dragons’ minions, then they cannot consume another dragons’ energy.
And again. The Sylvari are minions of Mordremoth. The Pale Tree is a minion factory of Mordremoth. The Sylvari are the only race that is immune to other elder dragons. The Sylvari are the only race connected by the Dream. Mordremoth is using this connection as backdoor. Other elder dragons also have a connection to their minions.
So the only plausible explanation is that Mordremoth has access to the Dream, if not even is the source of it.
Sylvari are freed minions of Mordremoth, and therefore do not function like Mordrem.
Even the Mordrem Guard do not function like ‘true’ Mordrem. If they go distant enough, they regain their original sanity as seen for one of the story achievements in Act 3. In other words get a mordrem guard far enough away from Mordremoth, and they will act the same as they ever did. This shows an interesting thing: Mordremoth did not re-corrupt sylvari. He just gave them impulsions – as explained both by dev blogs and by Canach, he did this by implanting thoughts and making the sylvari think said thoughts were their own. It would be as if you heard a voice in your head that came in your own tone telling you to burn all the things. Some folks hearing this will think “that’s not how I am” but others will go “yes… burn all the things!” This is the situation with the mordrem guard.
As for their physical appearance, it was established with Canach that extreme changes to personality or one’s situations can change their physical appearance. Canach went from a light green skinned, white-leaf head (which we saw in both The Lost Shores and S2E7’s flashback) to a dark green skinned, cactus head with a ‘beard’. With the implanting of thoughts changing their actions and convincing them to do things, sylvari would undergo an “extreme change to personality and/or situation” which in turn changes their physical appearance.
It’s not corruption – it’s taking advantage of a sylvari’s physiology.
Which actually makes sense given that Mordremoth didn’t try to corrupt the Pale Tree nor did Kralkatorrik try to corrupt Glint. This shows that dragon minions once freed from control cannot be recorrupted by the same dragon. Other dragons? That’s a question to be had. With the Dream being the protection for the sylvari, the only way to know for sure is to toss a Soundless at dragon corruption.
Back to your comment:
I would add Evennia, Livia and the Scepter of Orr (well atleast we have her in Sea of Sorrows) and maybe the leadership of the Consortium. Of course they did the rebuilding of Lion’s Arch so might not be completely dropped.
Evennia for sure. Consortium is clearly a long-term plan like Glint’s Legacy (the TRUE story of GW2; it’s not the Elder Dragons – they’re just a means to tell Glint’s Legacy).
Evennia I would add. Not Livia/Scepter of Orr. I think they’re saving that for when we get to bandits – which could well mean the upcoming raid will involve them.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the Maguuma bloodstone, afaik, is not explicitly explored in HoT and the Spirit Vale (first raid) seems to be located in an area the bloodstone could be found in GW2 (allowing for the geography changes they have been making). Livia was Shining Blade, enemies of the White Mantle. Silverwastes and Dry Top had a lot of hints suggesting bandits, or White Mantle, would make an appearance in the not so distant future. I’m really hoping Livia makes an appearance in the raid.
The Bloodstone is actually located between Lost Precipice (which curiously takes place partially where the druids were found in Bloodstone Fen) and the raid (which is located just east of the mission area) per what that_shaman found in the dat.
I do think that Livia might show up for the raid, but I don’t expect the bloodstone to be relevant despite constant theories. The Vale Guardian platform that people kept going “Bloodstone! Bloodstone!” is FAR from what the Bloodstone looked like.
I recall that line, but the speaker is called “Voice of Mordremoth” and I didn’t see the line coming from any nearby NPC. The voice itself also changed. It was just another dragon-speech that only sylvari should hear.
Though for some reason, my charr heard it. I took it as a bug.
Assuming there are other Trees not claimed by Mordry (do we have any proof of that? other than the possible one, Malyck’s) what do other sylvari have to be protected against? The Dream/Nightmare only protected the Pale Tree sylvari from Mordry’s influence (and as far as we know nothing happened to it) but it’s not like sylvari in general need protection against stuff more than any other race does.
The Dream/Nightmare seems to protect against all Elder Dragon corruption; Mordremoth was just able to slip through the defenses – though people take the same line I take as indicating such to indicate that it “only protects against Mordremoth” (I still don’t get how they get that observation beyond the explicit denial of anything but their thought that dragon minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons – something we know is not absolute if at all true).
The Dream is no protection. What protected the Sylvari against elder dragons is the fact that they already are dragon minions. What protected them against Mordremoth was the Pale Tree.
-sigh-
There’s no source for this claim that “they are dragon minions” being any form of “protection” and you’re wrong about the Dream. It was explicitly stated that the Dream and Nightmare was protection against Mordremoth, and the Pale Tree/Ogden heavily implied it was protection against all Elder Dragons.
It was said multiple times that the Pale Tree is what is protecting the Sylvari. The Pale Tree does that through the Dream. However, the Dream itself does not grant any protection.
You have it backwards.
The Pale Tree can protect the sylvari because of her connection to the Dream. The Dream is the connection and the Pale Tree is the conduit – not the other way around.
And willpower is also a factor – and implied that distance to Mordremoth as well.
In regards to Eir, given that she is norn and given how norn are, I don’t think that living retirement would have been a possibility. Norn live their legends until they die, regardless of what that legend is. To become incapable of continuing to live that legend is a fate worse than death to many norn, and to give up on the legend before death is to be disliked and looked at with disdain from many other norn (this is why Gullik spoke of Eir with disgust in Ghosts of Ascalon – she gave up on her legend when Snaff died, until the PC pulled Destiny’s Edge back together for killing Zhaitan).
Eir had the goal of slaying all Elder Dragons, as such she is a character that would either die or be in there for the entirety. So her death in of itself isn’t bad – it’s that she blatantly died for another characters’ development and had so many flags raised before hand that it was beyond obvious she would die.
Eir’s death was the steroetypical “bad character death”. And that’s what made it bad. Not that she died.
Other characters could retire off – if their goals were done. I was half expecting Trahearne to pass the torch to another character with Zhaitan’s death, or remain as the Marshal but assign “secondary Marshals” that took over specific operations for each dragon until the main campaign against them – and since they would then have so much experience fighting the dragon, they would lead the campaign alongside the PC instead of Trahearne, who would remain to do the logistics of running the Pact and continue to oversee Orr’s development. Instead his death was a blatant catering to the playerbase that QQ’d all the time (players QQ’d about Trahearne stealing glory – false as it is, NPCs now credit your actions all the kitten time; players QQ’d about not leading the Pact – throughout HoT you’re the lead even if you’re an untrustworthy sylvari; players QQ’d that they should get Caladbolg – grats, you got it, though broken; players QQ’d and wanted to kill Trahearne – Anet makes PC kill Trahearne).
I think Eir got killed off because she had nothing more to give to the story. She had all but faded from the story and Braham had taken over. Correct me if im wrong, but im pretty sure Eir hasn’t had a significant plot point associated with her since launch, and I don’t even think she would have been able to add much to the Jormag arc, unless they retconned something like she had Asgeir’s scroll under her bed all this time or something. Keeping that in mind, if she was still around when we go to kill Jormag, people would be saying “Oh, Eir added nothing to this Norn-themed expansion.”.
Eir has/had two storylines still open to her.
Sometime in the past, forget when exactly, the nature of Garm being one of the only black wolves seen in the game was brought up and the response was (paraphrasing): “the story of how Eir and Garm met is important and will be brought up in the future, so let’s not talk about it now”.
Then let’s not forget that Eir had a pretty big thing for the Kralkatorrik plot.
Of course, neither can happen now unless they pull a “wait, Eir didn’t die” twist which would ruin HoT (as well as any form of “wait, Mordremoth didn’t die” twist).
In all honesty, I wouldn’t be surprised if Caithe dies in LS3 or the next expansion, because Heart of Thorns tied up all of her loose ends and plot devices. Faolain is dead, her Wyld Hunt is complete, her “secret” has been revealed, and the egg is safe. Provided ArenaNet doesn’t add anything else for her, which I doubt they will, because shes been in the spotlight for a long time now.
Her Wyld Hunt was complete with Zhaitan’s death.
Then she got a new one to deliver the egg to Tarir.
Wyld Hunts can come at any time. Completing one doesn’t mean another won’t come – the PC also had a second Wyld Hunt show up after the initial one (to kill Zhaitan) which was to kill Mordremoth.
I rather hope they don’t kill Caithe off just because most of the old doors are closed – and were closed poorly in almost every case. Besides, Caithe has a very important story to see to: the survival of the sylvari now that the secret is out and Mordremoth is dead.
Im hoping we get some kind of a post-story instance, where we can see what happened to all the characters. For example. Where did Kas and Rox take Zojja and Logan, were they ok in the end?
Yeah, I hope they add in such with the raid update in a couple weeks. I would imagine such taking place in Tarir. Would make sense to take injured Pact soldiers there until Mordremoth’s defeated due to how he can just knock out any airship or chopper.
250 years doesn’t allow enough time for genetics to change. The norn talking about having Elonian blood said so because she was cold.
I doubt that a race native to Tyria could breed with one not native to Tyria.
1. It felt too easy and too fast.
Keep in mind that the “Zhaitan campaign” consists of Battle of Claw Island until Victory or Death in the personal story. The Mordremoth campaign, however, consists of all of Season 2 and Heart of Thorns – easily double the size of the Zhaitan campaign.
Heart of Thorns isn’t the full Mordremoth campaign. It’s the second half of it. Arguably, it’s just the last quarter, with the first half being Season 1 (if one were to count the entire personal story as the Zhaitan campaign in comparison).
2.So many unanswered questions.
TBH, I feel that this is just shoddy writing.
Mordremoth loves surprises.
It’s obvious that he’s planning something big.
And he had plenty.
4. No changes happened with the jungle.
Mordremoth is said to be the whole jungle. Yet when we finished attacking his mind, the jungle doesn’t decay into some swamp-like land or whatever. It remains exactly the same and full of life.
Orr remained full of risen, full of decay and decrepidness too, despite Zhaitan’s death.
Does this mean Zhaitan will return?
Not to mention the Mordrem still walk around the jungle and attack Verdant Brink at night like they usually do on a daily basis.
That’s a map stuck before Mordremoth’s death. Just like Orr maps are stuck in time before Zhaitan’s death – all core maps are.
If you expected to be ported into a second version of each map, you just set yourself up for disappoint.
However, unlike with mordrem, we were told that risen remain after Zhaitan’s death. It’s only likely that mordrem will remain after Mordremoths’ death too (which I believe is said to be true in the raid which takes palce post-HoT).
“Oh, but we fought Mordremoth’s physical form in Dragon’s Stand!”
No, we didn’t. The Mouth of Mordremoth is supposed to be an EXTENSION of the jungle dragon rather than the dragon himself. And Laranthir even yells “Commander!” during the fight. So it’s said to be that the PC participated in the fight along with dozens of other players. (Which brings up another question: Does the Pact have multiple commanders?)
The Mouth of Mordremoth is supposed to be the main body of Mordremoth, however, Mordremoth can regrow his body from his corruption is what Trahearne was saying. You have to either destroy all of his corruption – or as the dues ex machina revelation the PC had, kill his brain.
And yes, the Pact has dozens of Commanders. We hear Trahearne asking for three when we first meet him in Season 2.
And here’s something interesting: the devs pointed out that minions of Mordremoth can be cloned. We even saw what looked like Trahearne getting multiplied in the City of Hope cinematic. What if maybe, just maybe….the Trahearne we brought down wasn’t the actual Trahearne but rather a clone of him? …..Let’s save that theory for another time.
The idea is supposed to be that was what Mordremoth had planned. But as we saw with Logan and Zojja he didn’t have time to make those clones just yet.
Mordremoth was intending to create an army of Trahearnes, Logans, and Zojjas to attack the world. Probably Eirs and Faolains too but we put a stop to that too fast.
“Mordremoth just underestimated us!”
Wrong. Mordremoth knows that we were strong enough to kill Zhaitan. If he had underestimated us, then he wouldn’t have brought down the Pact fleet.
Did he really? He was asleep the entire time we killed Zhaitan, and do the other dragons take note of the other Elder Dragons’ actions and state of beings?
Further, it wasn’t the PC but the Pact that destroyed Zhaitan to all external knowledge (even if the PC played a major role, would this be so epitomized by an Elder Dragon?), and Mordremoth decimated the Pact. That would probably give a “hah, and Zhaitan had trouble with these flies?” mentality to an Elder Dragon. Especially since he took over all those sylvari, who were rather crucial to fighting Zhaitan (leaving no risen if killed).
TBH, I’d be rather disappointed if they brought back Mordremoth after the blatant catering to minor-but-super-vocal QQers about Trahearne.
Also, Mordremoth did show it could speak through its minions.
Please do clarify on this because not one did I ever see Mordremoth – or any Elder Dragon – speaking through his minions.
The only times we hear something speak with Mordremoth’s voice is the Mouth of Mordremoth, which uses the very same line as in the final instance (“Armies cannot stop me.”) as far as I know – and inside Mordremoth’s mind.
The floating shadow face that mordremoth appears as looks exactly like the mouth of mordremoth, why are you trying so hard to deny that its mordremoth?
It is rather funny. It’s like they are demanding the mouth of Modremoth say “I am actually Modremoth! DIE!”
Also maybe the idea of a creature that is made of plant life that encompass the entire map and all the new zones is maybe a bit too much for them to comprehend?
November 10th update notes:
Mouth of Mordremoth’s new line is:
“Foolish mortals, it will be I, Mordremoth, the Elder Jungle Dragon of Plant and Mind who consumes this ley line energy and ravashes the world!”
Then Slowpokeking and others then say “well Mordremoth’s just talking through the Mouth of Mordremoth, it’s in his dragon champion’s name!”
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Well then you’ve got a bug because Destiny’s Edge all disappear from their home instance when you finish chapter 3 (when you join an order).
ArenaNet at some time in the past confirmed this as what happens and said that it’d be too much work to try to add in more alternatives for the other storylines which function parallel mechanically to the personal story.
By the looks of the screenshots, it matches the two global textures we’ve gotten before. Might be more refined just like how the second one was more refined from the first (and fixing errors).
Should see if a dat diver could pull out that texture, compare it with the older ones.
The Nightmare was said to also act as protection against Mordremoth, so it being a “byproduct” doesn’t make much sense.
What it is fully depends on what the Dream is. Some of the more sane Nightmare Courtiers simply claim that the Nightmare is ‘darkness’ while the Dream is ‘light’, and these saner Courtiers tend to be willing to do good more often than the not-so-sane ones like Tiachern if he falls to Nightmare.
They helped Scarlet attacking the whole world but now want to save it, just because Mordremoth would enslave them, something Scarlet would never do?
I just want to clarify this.
The Nightmare Court is NOT a united faction. There are splinter factions within the Nightmare Court. Think of it like Christianity if you will in regards to structure. You have various forms of Christianity – Catholicism, Lutherian, Baptist, etc. – but they all identify as “Christian”. The same notion here – we got multiple groups who have overall similar beliefs (follow the nightmare) but they don’t all act upon those believes in the same way.
Faolain is the leader of “the main faction” – equivilant, in my example, to the pope. But not all faction leaders agree with her. We see one splinter faction take up base in Sparkly/Mount Maelstrom, and we see three splinter factions war with each other in TA explorable.
The Toxic Courtiers are one such faction who worked with Scarlet – no doubt not knowing Scarlet’s plant.
It should also be noted that the Toxic Alliance had more than just an alliance happen to them. Especially with the krait it was confirmed that Scarlet messed with their minds – no doubt a pre-calling to Mordremoth and his domain of minds – while part of the alliance, which is why they kept working with her after their “prophet” (the Toxic Hybrid) died, believing apparently that “she did it once, she can do it again”.
What is the deal with those people? Is there a greater plan behind it, or just bad storytelling?
If you take into the fact that not every Courtier has the same goals or believes, then it makes sense. There is no greater plan, it’s just that Courtier A thinks they should go about things with Method 1, and Courtier B thinks they should go about things with Method 2.
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.
