Guild Wars 2

Dragon champions are all 100% capable of creating minions. This is actually the main method for Elder Dragons to create minions – by creating minion-producing champions. Such as the Blighting Trees and Vinewrath for Mordremoth.

Shadow of the Dragon is 100% plant while Mordremoth’s body isn’t. The Shatterer is 100% not biological either but clearly a construct made of stone and lightning. The Claw of Jormag is an obvious construct of ice and bone too.

Nothing shows that the dragon-shaped dragon champions are ‘birthed’ by the Elder Dragons. Though this doesn’t mean that there wasn’t a dragon race in the distant past – given that Glint could procreate and that we had Bone Dragons in GW1 (plus the Claw of Jormag’s bones had to come from somewhere, as did the bodies of Zhaitan’s dragons).

Well, first we have to define what Elder Dragons are.

As seen by Zhaitan and Mordremoth, their bodies differ vastly so they’re not of the same species – that goes for Primordus and Kralkatorrik who’s bodies we’ve seen parts of too.

In Edge of Destiny, Kralkatorrik is defined as “more magical than physical” which has always led me to believe that the Elder Dragons aren’t “true dragons” so much as “taking on draconic shapes”. Mordremoth being able to regrow his serpentine dragon body is similar.

He says that line about Canach, though it’s a generic “your sylvari”. Says that for non-sylvari too.

You’re reversing what the Elder Dragons do.

The Elder Dragons consume uncorrupted energy and create corrupted energy.

Mordremoth isn’t feeding into the ley lines, he’s taking out of them.

Unless your argument is that the risen, mordrem, branded, etc. are the “natural state of Tyria” and that by making it all flowers and sunshine, we Tyrians are messing up the system and in order to fix it the Elder Dragons have to consume the ‘messed up system’ magic into themselves to give the ‘natural state of Tyria magic’ (what Tyrians perceive to be corrupted magic) back into the world in order to hold the prison together, and we simply haven’t seen them hit the stage of "putting ‘natural state of Tyria magic’ back into the world.

Which is similar to one of my original theories where Tyria’s natural state is the ‘corruption’ of the Elder Dragons and gods (not the Six Gods but other gods like Zintl, Amayali, Koda, Great Dwarf) came in and messed things up many cycles ago.

But your theory still has the flaw of the fact that the Elder Dragons release uncorrupted magic while they sleep from their own bodies (as proven by Primordus and Zhaitan).

Well, his vines – and forces – follow the route of the ley lines. Particularly the ley line that Scarlet messed up – which goes from LA (main hub) towards southern Dry Top, then arcs downward through Tangled Depths (and Rata Novus) into Dragon’s Stand. Another one heads straight to Tarir from Dragon’s Stand.

However, the real reason seems to be “don’t pull players out of HoT areas for the storyline”, otherwise it would have made sense to bring us to LA to witness the reaction of sylvari in LA and how the revelation affects them – or the Grove – and to go to Rata Sum to fend off an attack.

It wouldn’t be too much to write Rata Sum being in trouble – they did that for the Grove in Season 2! Ever since LA attack people think it has to be messing with the open world – but it doesn’t, if they don’t have permanent vines added in. They have Vine Crawlers, Mordrem Breachers, and Mordrem Spitfires for a reason – a mobile vine they can remove.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Kalavier.1097:

And how would you get those explosives and fire into the jungle? As far as the Pact knew up to that point, Air was an area where Mordremoth couldn’t hit them. Land convoys were at far greater risk.

Bring enough oil or similar stuff and burn everything.

You can have the air strike, but at the same time the land forces has to carry on as well.

That sounds so ingenious! Why hasn’t anyone ever thought about sending in ground troops and then firing hundreds of cannons on their positions before!

It’s not like we need those ground troops with explosives to survive or anything. Or make it to their destination.

There’s a lot of text in Rata Novus that has yet to be translated. I got a few that I’ve been meaning to get to but they got buried in 999 screenshots so I gotta sort through a few hundred HoT ones…

If there even will be a Guild Wars 3. Besides, wouldn’t folks have said the same thing after killing a god? “What could be a threat to Tyria now that we’ve killed gods?” Answer: things that rival gods. So “What could be a threat to Tyria now that we’ve killed things that rival gods?” Answer: Things that rival things that rival gods.

Or with a time leap, and new characters involved, we go down a bit. Start from scratch.

And come on, that plot would be pathetically obvious and even more pathetically cliche… -sigh- but so was Eir’s death and sylvari being dragon minions…

It’s more of “they consumed the magic inside the artifacts” for both dragons and it’s likely the same for all others. In Honor of the Waves, the icebrood are taking artifacts from the sanctuary – having powerful icebrood kodan pick out which ones are “worth” taking. No doubt, those are magical artifacts.

The Mouth of Zhaitan consumed the magic and artifact whole, while the mordrem tendrils just siphoned the magic itself. But the principle is the same.

It would be odd, in fact, for the other four dragons to not consume magic from artifacts.

Also, Zhaitan ate magic directly from ambient magic – which is what ley lines are (just very condenced) – such as the Artesian Waters.

We never see Glint lay the eggs, however. But we do know that the last egg was in stasis – how long, though, we don’t know.

Couldn’t it have been that the eggs have been in stasis for thousands of years?

I’ve only played through fully on charr, and partially on sylvari. THere is the obvious “you hear Mordremoth’s voice, you get unique dialogue with Canach about being a sylvari, and the first instance differs a lot if you’re sylvari” cases.

But of all of Act 1, the first instance is the only thing that really changes. And I mean the entire thing changes – if you rescue Laranthir’s men, then some of the non-sylvari Pact forces leave; if you stay to defend as a sylvari then you save another sylvari you come across who hears Mordremoth’s call (and this is an achievement no less – FORCING you to be a sylvari and deny your fellow sylvari their dues). I’m a bit disappointed in that Prisoners of the Dragon (final Act 1 instance) doesn’t have anything unique to sylvari that I could tell.

Though one thing I noticed for Prisoners of the Dragon:

As a charr, you call Rytlock by his rank: Tribune. As a sylvari, you call him by his name: Rytlock.

Charr line: “Feelings, Tribune? From a soldier like you?” Sylvari line: “Feelings, Rytlock? From a soldier like you?”

Unless I misremember. This is a minor but interesting difference there.

Honestly, such things should be about since each line is recorded individually anyways. Having NPC lines be the same makes a bit of sense, so they can re-use the line, but minor alterations from the PC works wonders so long as it makes sense in comparison to the NPC lines.

Kalavier.1097:

I’d have to look it up again(honestly haven’t read Thrulnn’s dialogue in a while), but I just remember Thrulnn’s line being more of a “Both our races ruled as giant-kings back then. Yours faired better then mine in the long run” Then a same/similar race origin.

It’s really open to interpretation, IMO, especially given that we know not all of what Thrulnn says is true.

The matter is that both races are constantly attributed together in regards to ancient stories of the Elder Dragons, only briefly do dwarves get added into the equation – as if they are separate.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Is the raid going to be something like Mallyx after Abaddon’s death?

In the context that it takes place after the main story and we’re facing a giant hunched over foe, yes.

DarcShriek.5829:

More forces wouldn’t have helped. When your time is up, your time is up.

I think Glint would be dead no matter what, but given the line in Edge of Destiny, it seems that if Logan remained she knew that they would succeed- whereas with him gone, they wouldn’t.

So it stands to reason that if she had so much time to prepare for her death, then if she had more forces waiting to confront Kralkatorrik – like say, the Exalted whom are immune to corruption (therefore clearly another type of dragon minion like sylvari since, y’know, only dragon corruption prevents dragon corruption in accordance to everyone on this forum ergo it must be true) – then perhaps while she might still die, Kralkatorrik could have been inevitably dead too.

Unless, of course, she intended for Destiny’s Edge to fail. This could be part of her ‘legacy’ too.

I recall reading a crazed crackpot theory on this forum that Glint let Snaff died so that Snaff’s mind could be stuck within Kralkatorrik’s body and slowly take it over.

Seems a little less crackpot now that one pillar of support for the theory has been confirmed: that Glint knew she would die regardless.

We could glide down the cliff because it was a cliff, Point B was far down below. The story reason for Kasmeer’s portals is that she was creating several along the cliff-face (though mechanically we only see one if we look).

The spot where Eir is carried to is further than how far Kasmeer creates portals to – replay S2E1’s instance “Cornered” and you’ll see that a smaller gap she had to have Marjory create a bone bridge for her to help cross. And the only other time I recall Kasmeer seemingly teleporting is Bitter Harvest – but she’s stealthing primarily, not just blinking, so she disappears not because she teleports so far, but because she’s invisible.

Granted, it would have been better if for xyz reason Kasmeer was knocked down/dazed or otherwise not present, or Eir simply didn’t die due to “everyone else being unable to reach her on time.”

Vinewrath is not part of Mordremoth. Mouth of Mordremoth is Mordremoth’s physical body – which can be regrown if killed.

We have for sure:

• Shadow of the Dragon
• Silverwaste’s Vinewrath (there are others seen in HoT on occasion which I definitely would not count as dragon champions)
• Stavemaster Aryn
• Blademaster Diarmid
• Axemaster Hareth
• Faolain

I would also count:

• Scarlet Briar
• Blademaster Cellona (in Auric Basin)
• Axemaster Gwyllion (in Verdant Brink at night)
• Mordrem Wyvern Matriarch (in Verdant Brink at night)
• Hammermaster Morthwyl (in Verdant Brink at night)
• Stavemaster Anwir (in Verdant Brink at night)
• Blademaster Cadogg (in Verdant Brink at night)
• Spellmaster Macsen (in Verdant Brink at night)

There might be one or two worth naming in Tangled Depths but I’ve not done much of that map, or in one of the storyline splits I haven’t done yet.

It might seem like he has a few number of champions, but it should be kept in mind that he hasn’t been awake as long as the other dragons who have equal amounts despite not being a story focus (and Zhaitan having easily three times as many).

Tarnished Coast is part of the Maguuma Jungle. Always has been in lore.

Mechanically, the Steamspur Mountains count to the Maguuma Jungle stuff because of two reasons:

1. They needed to even out the number of zones-to-region with release. Only Orr zones were fewer than 5 upon release.
2. The themes of those two zones (Sparkfly and Mount Maelstrom) match that of the Tarnished Coast+Brisban zones, in regards to textures and models used for the environment.

Magus Falls has its own explorer achievements, which are per map.

Also, Orr is a complete region – it’s just that there’s room for more (and it’s more than half of the peninsula – note: Orr is not a continent – but what brings it over that half is the dungeon Arah which doesn’t count to explorer because it’s a jungle).

Every newly added material to the game is very expensive for the first few months.

Personally, I won’t really bother with HoT crafting (or rather, crafting requiring HoT-onlymaterials) until Wintersday or so.

If this turns out to be a map of Tyria tapestry, I will have to get a scribe up to 400 asap.

Well, we know that Glint foresaw her own demise and that’s why she put these plans into action (according to one of the Exalted in Tarir that is). If she could foresee her own death, then it’s not unlikely for her to have seen further, is it?

There might be the saying “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely” but I don’t think that’s why the Elder Dragons are evil. Though it’s pure speculation at this point, I’d argue that the Elder Dragons reached and obtained the power they have because they were evil, and not the other way around.

draxynnic.3719:

That said, we probably shouldn’t trust the Exalted either. According to the Fallen Masks adventure, they’re apparently immune to dragon corruption. So, clearly, they must be dragon minions!

And by extension, so were the Forgotten, as they gave the Exalted this so-called immunity. They belong to the Elder Golden Dragon – the Wealdwood Orb in Orr is just a facet of its corruption!

In Tangled Depths, you’ll see an army of mordrem that cannot be reached marching eastward. While we’re behind enemy lines fighting and pushing towards Mordremoth, Mordremoth is invading eastward with his new army of mordrem saurians, mordrem guard, etc.

He’s also constantly assaulting Tarir and even created the mordrem vinetooths specifically to hunt down the Exalted, whom he cannot corrupt, and surviving Pact forces.

He’s not being reactive there at all. It’s just that he over-estimated how the surviving Pact troops could fight back.

~Nothing says draconic corruption cannot mix. The sylvari are protected from dragon corruption by the Dream. Even Mordrem Guards aren’t corrupted as seen by the one in the Rata Novus instance (talking to whom is an achievement).~

Klipso.8653:

Now throughout the entire story so far, all dragons are referred to as “it”

Except for Glint, who is apparently the only dragon that has a gender. “Her”

Why does this specific dragon not follow the rules?

Most dragons are referred to with male pronouns, actually. It’s the wiki who uses it, because technically dragons – with the possible exception of Glint and a handful of others – do not have genders.

To elaborate: Elder Dragons are without genders as the Tyrian mind can comprehend (so dev explanation has been) and most dragon champions – Claw of Jormag, Tequatl, etc. etc. – are construct creations made of elements and bodies.

However, there are hints to a dragon species being in existence in the ancient past – one that didn’t include things like the Claw of Jormag or The Shatterer and possibly even Mordremoth, Zhaitan, etc.

Glint and the bone dragons from GW1 might have been amongst this dragon race – some of the Canthan dragons could be the suppose dragon race’s cousin races (Moss Dragon, Saltspray Dragons, etc.). Tequatl and such could have been made out of the corpses of these dragons. It’s all still very speculative.

Glint isn’t the only dragon referred to with a gender pronoun (Kuunavang was a she too), but most modern dragons don’t have a discernible gender.

The Elder Dragons have been stated to not even have genders as Tyrians can comprehend. So no, they ’re not all male – none are male.

But none are female either.

They are simply called with male pronouns for simplicity sake. Which is common when referring to an individual who’s gender is unknown – it’s either “him” or “them” (even if referring to a singular).

Druids appear like spectral treants. You know, oakhearts, mosshearts, etc., but ghostly.

Before that appearance, they were human – hair, skin, muscle, and bone human.

Glint lied about what?

Or is this just another bandwagon theory where despite no proper evidence the truth is clearly visible.

I think the idea they were trying to portray was “these forests are full of mordrem, they could even tell from the sky, so before assaulting the Elder Dragon itself they need to wipe out its encroaching minions.”

It would have been better if it showed some marching mordrem – like we see on the southeastern edge of Tangled Depths – through the trees in that cinematic.

It wasn’t so much a case of “Trahearne ordered fire on the jungle at random” but “Trahearne ordered fire on mordrem hiding in the jungle at random.”

Even with the fleet against Zhaitan, they couldn’t just fly over all of Orr. While there was no swarm of dragons in the skies above the magus falls, it would be foolish to wade directly over the powerful enemy without destroying its forces along the way.

Further, in S2, Trahearne explicitly states that he wants to stem the minion-making before assaulting Mordremoth, as now would be the time to do so, when he still has so few minions made. If Trahearne’s plans had succeeded, the blighting trees in Verdant Brink and Auric Basin would have crumbled down before moving on to Dragon’s Stand.

Hopefully it doesn’t, unless they want to close the Nightmare Court plot entirely. Having a mix of “sane Courtiers” and “crazed Courtiers” was an interesting dynamic to me, and I don’t think Faolain or Cadeyrn were behind the crazed ones.

The anogram is exactly what first made folks think the tarnished coast ruins were mursaat made.

And it was stated to be a nod to the community who like the mursaat, iirc. But it’s not a hint to the ruins origins. Anet made it clear with Rata Pten that those were asuran ruins.

Humorouslye enough, the moving platforms came from SAB. Same with jumping mushrooms/platforms that we saw later at Dragonbash and then in HoT.

SAB pushed the engine’s capabilities to new heights that without we wouldn’t have so many awesome things we see in HoT.

Yet they don’t continue it.

Not probably, definitely based off of the Seelie and Unseelie courts. It was confirmed a long time ago by Ree, back before release.

There’s quite a few events in the open world where we see individuals having romantic views for others of another species – usually it’s human/sylvari or human/norn, but there are a couple asura/sylvari coworkers that certainly give implications that more could be.

Southsun is deserpately in need of an improvement – both to the meta merchant format and to event numbers in general. For map completion, I would actually suggest 6 hero points, so that the number of hero points obtainable without HoT is 220 (currently it is 214).

My ideas for hero challenges:

• Commune at Ancient Karka corpse.
• Commune at one of the still-in-the-game spores that Canach used.
• “Horde fight” (1 powerful + some weak) challenge in the northern Karka Nest (where the demolition event leads), with an elite karka adult and some young karkas.
• “Horde fight” (1 powerful + some weak) at the wurm area, to bring up an elite sand wurm queen and its hatchlings.
• “Challenger fight” (1 powerful foe) challenge at Steampipe Steading’s raised ‘houses’, fighting a Settler norn there who wants to keep in shape in fighting the karka (not available when settlement under attack)
• Consumable challenge anywhere on the map, from a special blooming passiflora (to eat a unique passion fruit).

As for Vista locations:

• One along the cliffs of the Skipping Stones jumping puzzle
• One on northern end of Driftglass Springs, where one of Canach’s spores is.
• On on the wrecked ships near Owain’s Refuge
• One in the upper Karka Hive, panning down and ending on the Ancient Karka.

Unfortunately they’ve only stated that they want to – both what Majic said from Colin and Bobby Stein’s posts throughout this thread.

I recently asked him about an update and this was his response:

BobbyStein.2315:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

On a similar topic: Now that HoT is out, is there any update to be had regarding Season 1 being made permanent content?

Not at the moment.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Is it still simply on the table, has it been taken off the table, is it on an up-coming to-do list without an ETA, or perhaps it is being worked on?

We’re inspecting the table, since it often has a lot of things on it. No ETA on when the inspection will be done, but it’s on the list.

FilliaCopt.4586:

About caithe, what i meant really is :
She gets caught, she gave very little explaination (if any), and a bad one.. i was expecting everybody to have some kinda of fight with her. In the end she kinda gets away with it and is given a simple warning?

Her weapons are taken away and she’s forced to follow you, deep into Mordremoth’s territory, weaponless – effectively defenseless.

We give her weapons back only because of Faolain, with a very, very stern warning (certainly sounded extremely stern – as in a “you twitch wrongly and I will end you” stern – when on my male charr).

Granted, her explanation was pathetic and makes it obvious that she was nothing more than a mcguffin (it wasn’t the egg that was the mcguffin) to show players Caithe’s past and the reveal in S2, as well as keep the PC away from the Pact Fleet’s launch and demise.

Dante.1763:

-snip-

As of Season 2, the developers wrote the story as if your character had completed the PS and Season 1.

So yes, your character had met Canach before S2… but you, the player, didn’t.

Mind you, the over rudeness was off-putting to a lot of players. And personally the sudden niceness and agreeing that is shown in HoT is offputting because it’s practically a 180 on how the PC treated Canach – no development or transition.

Donari.5237:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I really liked it in the PS, though it makes documenting the wiki a pain (primarily due to the lack of repeating in the PS).

On this point, all the voiced interactive dialogue is also written in grey text in the chat box. You can screenshot that. Just watch out for the odd line or two that doesn’t get put in text or is voiced in a slightly different version.

I am fully aware, tyvm.

I’m talking about the boxes that pop up when you interact with an NPC – they weren’t there at all in HoT, and in the PS they change occasionally based on your story step’s objective and location. Combine all the variations of the dialogue (some changed based on past decisions) and no way to see it after the fact with how the PS was not repeatable, and it makes it hell to document.

S2 and HoT are repeatable however, so that issue disappears.

lynspottery.6529:

I’ve never found the rich node and can only get 3 crystal pcs from my home node. The only other ones I found were the two by the crash site and there is one behind an event that is not available until you do the event…I’ve only managed to see it available once and that was it.

There’s three basic nodes in Dry Top – two are at Crash Site 1. The third moves, it can be either at Crash Site 3 or in the Inquest tunnels just west of it.

Then there’s the rich node, you don’t have to do the event but get it triggered which just means getting to Tier 4.

Adding in the home instance node, that’s 22 in total you can get per day. 25 if you find a map where the one that moves has moved elsewhere.

IIRC, though, only the rich and home instance nodes are once per day per account.

Kalavier.1097:

Yes, the dragonhunter Eir Stegalkin, pulled from a vine cell and carried out of the jungle to heal, literally sitting aside as her companions fight on because she’s unable to fight.

That’s a great chapter for a legendary hero. I’m not a fan of Eir dying, but as others said, dying versus literally being pulled out and sent home to heal is much different to a Norn of Eir’s status compared to humans or Asura.

Why would she need to go home to heal?

She was only slightly wounded and was left starving. A good meal, a weapon, and one night’s sleep and she’d be up and ready to go. She’s a norn, after all.

Could have saved her, had her spend one mission or two recuperating, bringing her back to fight fully alongside us, to be killed later on against a powerful foe.

Imagine this: Eir and Faolain don’t die in that story instance but move on, joining the Pact Commander in the fight against Mordremoth (Faolain joining because kitten shackles and Mordremoth’s the greatest shackle). There’s tension there, as they find Caithe and she’s assaulted by one of the Mordrem Guard commanders (let’s go with the axe dude cuz he’s a bulldozer). Like currently in Prized Possessions the Pact Commander gets separated, and heads to Tarir; when rejoined, Caithe and Faolain “went ahead to scout and be alone” while the rest of the group heads to the Blighting Tree south of Tarir to rescue Logan and Zojja. After rescue, those two – being weak human and asura – are sent north to Tarir and we keep them safe while fighting, and killing (for the time being) the Mordrem Commander again. We then head east, and discover about Rata Novus. Cue Act 3:

In Tangled Depths we run into Caithe and Faolain who have discovered Malyck’s tree. However it’s under assault. Distracted by argument while fighting (over the existence of Malyck’s tree being not-corrupted), Faolain is killed by the assault’s commander and her body taken away. After saving the tree the party splits – part go to Rata Novus, the rest track Trahearne southward, though Caithe leaves to track Faolain’s taker. After the Rata Novus fun-time where Rata Novan’s research point to Mordremoth’s greatest strength and cue Eir talking about the fight with Kralkatorrik and how Snaff battled the Elder Dragon leading to the revelation of Mordremoth’s potential weakness (much better than a dues ex machina that we got), we head south. In Dragon’s Stand we get our first instance showing the organization of the Pact camp with leaders from all our allies (Laranthir, Tizlak, Ibli, Ruka, Malyck), and we lead an in-instance push south but are assaulted by Mordrem Faolain, who overpowers the group and corners the Pact Commander, but Eir jumps in front of the way to save us, taking a hazardous blow from Faolain; seeing the rest of DE recooperating (or rather, Rytlock+Caithe+biconics), Faolain takes the injured Eir and flees. We give chase, we pin Faolain down at a Blighting Tower but she escapes and Eir is found dead. Next instance we go to track down Faolain and push deeper into enemy territory, leading us to the Heart of Thorns tree which allows a direct assault on Mordremoth.

Would that not suffice Eir’s death properly? Would that not suffice Faolain’s death properly? Would that not reveal Mordremoth’s weakness properly?

If I was given the parameters of “Eir must die, Faolain must turn Mordrem, egg must go to Tarir, Logan/Zojja must be freed, Trahearne must be at Mordremoth’s domain, Rata Novus must be visited and tell of Elder Dragons’ weaknesses without giving it directly” then that’s how I would have done it. Greatly summarized, of course.

I would have also had the named Mordrem Guards (including the commanders) have names we recognize. After all, who is Aryn? Who is Diarmid? Who is Hareth? Who is Gwyllion? Who are Cadogg, Morthwyl, Anwir, and Macsen? We are given only 8 named Mordrem Guard (as far as I’ve seen at least) and not one of them is of an NPC we knew before.

Jaken.6801:

Are we really a leader of the pact btw.?
I mean we push our little team around and at the beginning we put Laranthier and the others in their place, but after that we aren`t really in any leading postition.

We basically made Laranthir our second-in-command (end of Torn from the Skies) and he seems to pick up Trahearne’s old job of organizing and leading the army (as seen in Dragon’s Stand – particularly the Mouth of Mordremoth fight) while we continue our old job of being the arrowhead’s point that breaks enemy’s defenses before the army pushes in.

So yes, while we haven’t been called Marshal yet, I suspect that we will be starting next update. That or Laranthir will take the mantle of Marshal, since that’s the job he began doing – just underneath us this time.

Jaken.6801:

As we are in the open world, we are basicaly one of serveral pact soldiers who help in the fight against Mordremoth.

If you haven’t, play the Mouth of Mordremoth event. Laranthir calls us Commander then – it’s an isolated dialogue, I believe, but it’s meant to signify the PC while everyone else are just “several pact soldiers”.

Jaken.6801:

I would have liked some parts of the story, where we gather some of the surviving pact leaders and help organize anything.

That was left more for Verdant Brink – primarily the Pact Encampment in the middle of the map, where we establish a camp leader out of three equally-ranked officers.

Got to remember that just like the Orrian invasion, the story takes place in both open world and story instance.

Though despite their desired claims, they continued to do a bad job of ensuring this was shown.

DarcShriek.5829:

As far as NPC deaths are concerned, we’re at war with an elder dragon people are going to die. If no one died, it would be silly.

It’s not so much that Eir died as much as HOW she died. She died for the blatant obvious task of furthering Braham’s development. Her story, her personality, was tossed to the wayside as of Season 2. Since Season 2 it was obvious they were writing her off, and doing so only for some off-screen development of the most whining character to follow us around.

Eir dies? That’s not the issue.

Eir dies solely and blatantly so Braham can be developed? That’s an issue.

ArenaNet needs to find a way to cause character development that doesn’t require the death of another character. Eir, Trahearne, and Scruffy all died for obvious character development – Trahearne died for the extra added measure of catering to the vocal minority who are simply just wrong about their claims (those claims being “he stole our glory” – he never took any credit for our actions, never stole any glory).

Zabiyaka.2567:

We are talking about iconic figure not some vigil cannon fooder. This is a game. This should be pleaseant to everyone.

I disagree. Stories should be told well, not made to coddle the audience unless that’s the intent of the story – which it clearly isn’t for GW2. And to have well told stories there will be iconic figures dying for one reason or another.

Rox having it would have been a really neat touch, but since she’s a bow user we’d never see her use it, really, unless it was called for or she took up a sword or axe mainhand.

Kalavier.1097:

Oreithyia.3064:

Norn interbreeding with Ogre, Jotun or even Kodan sounds more likely, since lorewise some in-game characters say the races are related, but A.net stated no interbreeding.

A: No stated relations with the Ogres as far as I know.
B: Jotun I don’t think have stated being related to Norn, just something along the lines that both races were among the great giants of the past.
C: Kodan theory about norn being an off-shoot of a lost tribe/haven/whatevertheycalltheirships is… a theory.

Really, there is no true evidence to point toward Norn being physically related to Kodan or Jotun (As in shared origins).

I think he got the ogre bit from the statement that jotun and ogres are cousin races, and jotun are said to be related – or at least heavily implied – to norn in two cases.

And kodan call their ships sanctuaries.

I find a relation to jotun to be far more likely than to kodan. If Thrulnn’s claims of norn being around when magic was wild holds true (as supported by Ogden’s implication in S2E1’s final instance).

It was, that doesn’t mean that with us finding a city made by the Forgotten with beings charged with tasks by the Forgotten, that we wouldn’t try to find either of the two very effective anti-dragon magics (the purification ritual and divine fire) which are heavily tied if not originating from the Forgotten.

CureForLiving.5360:

The Dream / Nightmare seems to provide protection to mental corruption, protection against physical corruption could be because they are dragon minions. During vanilla they never explain why Zhaitan can’t corrupt them, simply that they are immune to his corruption. Since no Soundless were corrupted (and we know Soundless are susceptible to Mordy) by Zhaitan… well maybe the Pact didn’t have a single Soundless during the Orr campaign, but we do know Risen are in Caledon forest and we do know Soundless are there as well… So it does seems that there is a clear difference between how they react to Mordy and to Zhaitan’s corruption (and this might then relate to the dream and Mordy primarily attempting to corrupt their minds).

It was never explained why because they didn’t know why. The Pale Tree likely knew, but didn’t say. Ogden hints that it’s because of the Dream during Hidden Arcana, as does the Pale Tree earlier, but never confirmed outright.

We never saw a single Soundless corrupted because they remain in their isolated communities for the most part. The one and only Soundless who we know of that didn’t live in northern Caledon Forest – far from the risen influence in Caledon at that (which is stated to be very recent) is Aerin.

CureForLiving.5360:

Actually during the pre-HoT event in Skrittburg the Modrem and the Destroyers were fighting. Mind you that was probably a bug, but still they fought.

I never once saw those mordrem fighting anything. Even when the two events were happening right on top of each other, EXCEPT when AoE from one group hit another while both groups were attacking players.

This is a mechanic called ‘invisibility’ which basically means they ’don’t register each others’ presence until attacked by’. Neutral foes are set to this for players.

Wuselknusel.4082:

You said that Sylvari seem to be freed minions, which does mean that Mordremoth should not have any control over them. But he does, due to the fact that the Sylvari are still dragon minions.

If you actually read my post you’d know that I stated that Mordremoth does not have control over them – not corruption-based control which is brainwashing. His control over the mordrem guard is a different flavor, in that he’s continuously implanting thoughts that they think are their own.

That’s not corruption.

Wuselknusel.4082:

I believe that elder dragons don’t corrupt beings that have been freed, which we know two of, not because of the fact that they have been freed, but because they were too powerful to be corrupted. Their willpower was strong enough to resist the dragon.
The fact that they are freed minions had nothing to do with it.

But to be freed from corruption, they had to have once been corrupted in the first place.

Elder Dragons cannot control what they don’t corrupt. They can only convince fealty – which is what Jormag does to the Sons of Svanir, and what Mordremoth does to the Mordrem Guard.

Which is actually a very apt comparison – neither are corrupted, but both serve their dragon. The main difference is that Mordrem Guard originate as dragon minions who were purified by still-unknown means but then returned to ‘willingly’ serve their dragon. The secondary difference is how Jormag and Mordremoth convince fealty – Jormag promises power to those who cooperate, Mordremoth makes them think what his orders are are their own thoughts and ideas.

Wuselknusel.4082:

That was not the point I was making. I said mindless beings can’t resist the dragon, since they have no mind and that only self-aware beings have the chance to resist.

There is no such thing as a mindless being. Such entities are called braindead. Obviously, grubs, krait, charr, humans, etc. are not brain dead when turned into branded, risen, icebrood, etc.

I really do not understand this “point” that you were making.

Wuselknusel.4082:

We know from the Sylvari and frankly from any elder dragon that once you have fallen for it, you can’t turn back. So there is only one chance for you to resist. The fact that many haven’t resisted shows that it is hard to resist, the fact that Glint or the Tree weren’t corrupted shows that it’s possible.

But Glint WAS corrupted. Fully. In mind and body. She was purified by a ritual found by the Forgotten (unclear if they discovered it or created it).

Furthermore, Mawdrey is another such case – a corrupted seed that we purified through a large variety of oddity magics, including that of the Foefire, healing Maguuma waters, and even destroyer magic.

The Pale Tree is no doubt the same, given that she was made by Mordremoth (had to have been for the sylvari to have been made by Mordremoth).

Dragon minions CAN be purified. They CAN be broken free of corruption and the effective brainwashing that corruption instills.

But no purified dragon minion (read: Glint, Glint’s children, Pale Trees, Mawdrey, or sylvari) have shown to be corrupted again.

Wuselknusel.4082:

Yet both are powerful beings, which would explain why they were able to resist the corruption.

They didn’t resist it. They were freed from it.

Huge difference.

No being known to us ever resisted dragon corruption.

Wuselknusel.4082:

Where is it told that the white stag has anythng to do with the protection of Mordremoth?

That’s not what I said. I said the Dream is explicitly stated to be protection against Mordremoth.

Wuselknusel.4082:

He also explicitly states that he feels “a great sense of distance and loss”.
now, what do we know both about the protection the Pale Tree offers and Mordremoth’s influence? Both grow weaker over distance.

Having lost a mental connection to others is not a requirement for feeling sorrow about not knowing what your place in the world is.

Many humans feel the exact same way that Malyck describes. Real humans, not fictional.

Wuselknusel.4082:

Because like the Pale Tree has no control over it, Mordremoth hasn’t either. He is the source of the Dream, but the Pale Tree was able to “pervert” a part of it. Just like the Nightmare “perverted” a part of the Dream.

How can a world-ending entity with power over minds not have control of a mental landscape that he is the origin of?

That makes no sense.

Wuselknusel.4082:

Why should there be a difference between the sphere and the elder dragon? The sphere represents all energy of that energy type. The elder dragon is just the peak of that.

Exactly. The sphere is all of it, the Elder Dragon is just the strongest aspect within it – but not the entirety, not the sphere.

Wuselknusel.4082:

But if you’re in the middle of the Sahara with amnesia, you neither have internet, nor can you remember it.

As shown by the fact that there are sylvari tied to the Dream all the way over in Orr and Ascalon, distance – at least the distance we know of in-game – is no factor to being connected to the Dream.

Your analogy doesn’t work.

Wuselknusel.4082:

I’ll admit that if Mordremoth is the ED of Minds, that he may be able to use the Dream’s link. Wich would then leave the question why all other races are completely unaffected. Zhaitan was able to use the corpses of all races, except from Sylvari. Why does Mordremoth then seem to be weaker, evnthough it was said that he is stronger than Zhaitan?

Other races aren’t connected to the Dream. Sylvari had protection from corruption via the Dream. Mordremoth seems weaker only because he just awoke – Zhaitan had 100 years and a headstart to gain power, Mordremoth just had a headstart and 1 year to gain power.

Wuselknusel.4082:

And what is your theory then?
Why do Sylvari have a Dream, if it’s not connected to Mordremoth? How would the Pale Tree have been connected to it? Where lies its source? Why, out of all races, does only the dragon minion race have a connection to network that not only is really hard to disconnect from, but also is prone to the attacks of the very elder dragon that created them? And if the Dream is not created by Mordremoth, shouldn’t the Mordrem Guard’s memories be uploaded to the Dream of the Pale Tree? Why don’t we hear anyone speak about it?

And back to my old question, why does the Nightmare behave like corruption, when it’s said that the members of the Nightmare Court “just” want to be free of the Tablet?

In order:

1. It largely depends upon what the nature of the Dream/Nightmare is. It holds a lot of similarities with the Mists, up until we fight Mordremoth’s mind in the Dream. Part of me wants to say it’s a shard of the Mists, like the Rift, which overlaps Tyria at certain parts (such as Orr and the Maguuma Jungle). But until we have an answer on that, the “why do sylvari have it” can only be answered as “because the Pale Tree has it” because no other sylvari tree seems to have it. Only Mordremoth and the Pale Tree.
2. Again, depends on the nature of the Dream itself. But I believe its a combination of locational based as well as magical based – Mordremoth, the Pale Tree, and White Stag are all said to be highly magical beings, and all three are based both in Tyria and the Dream, and all three are located within the Maguuma Jungle. Would one lose connection to the Dream if not based in the Maguuma?
3. Once more, depends on the nature. But does it really need a source? Does the Mists have a source? Does Tyria? Does magic? No, no, no, and no.
4. You word your question trickily – yes, it’s currently seen primarily used by a dragon minion race… but not all of them. Again, Malyck doesn’t have a connection to the Dream or Nightmare. And we know of a non-dragon minion with access to the Dream: White Stag. Further, non-sylvari are capable of physically entering the Dream with the Pale Tree’s help (A Light in the Darkness) as well as mentally entering through a powerful sylvari (Hearts and Minds). So you ask your question of “why is this so” but the “this” isn’t so.
5. Because woken sylvari do not gain the memories within the Dream and the time from when mordrem guard turned to serve Mordremoth to Mordremoth’s death we never once interact with a newborn sylvari or the Pale Tree.
6. That depends upon the nature of the Nightmare as well as the nature of the Dream. But we know that Nightmare isn’t corruption – as it counters it as well.

Zhaitan tapped into the raw sources of magic through the Artesian Waters, which given later lore was likely a ley line hub itself.

Yeah, I found that a bit odd myself. With it proving to not only ward off mordrem, but be capable of killing the thought-to-be-immortal dragon champion, one would think they’d look into it. Especially with Forgotten magic all over the place.

I also found the lack of trying to make a local purification ritual (first seen in Arah explorable) happen weird.

Hell, I found the lack of a lot of certain things weird.

Will this fix those who didn’t receive map completion rewards?

(on a minor related note: are Southsun, Dry Top, and Silverwastes supposed to give rewards now that they have map completion too? If so, all my characters that did such before the update never got them either).

I wouldn’t call Subject Alpha loyal to the Inquest.

@Mushroomz: Unless the DSD is drawn to Tyria by five objects of huge magic, and two large explosions of magic along ley lines.

But, I mean, really, why would a magic-consuming entity be possibly drawn in by such. (/s)

Though given the refugees flowing in from the Unending Ocean, it seems that the DSD was pushing towards Tyria ever-so-slowly since it woke. Otherwise, the refugees would be going in other directions.

@Oni: I think the models for Zhaitan and Mordremoth’s bodies were very well done. True, it’s a bit odd that Mordremoth’s body is a giant snake-like thing, but given that he regrows his body from his corruption it also makes a bit of sense (though perhaps the vine monster with a Shadow Behemoth frame would make more sense).

The Mordremoth fight was beyond epic, if you add in the Mouth of Mordremoth fight. That’s what a fight with an Elder Dragon should feel like, IMO, though there’s always room for improvements.

Don’t think what we saw in his mind is his body – it’s just an avatar made to fight us.

The presence in Elona was down to one singular forgotten who was very, very old and likely to die soon.

Mushroomz.4280:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And from both the cinematic during The All as well as the Trial of Strength during City of Hope, it’s most likely that the DSD awoke between Primordus and Jormag. Primordus awoke in 1120 AE, and Jormag in 1165 AE. That would place the DSD’s awakening between those two dates – all possibilities lying before 1173 when Rata Novus fell.

DSD woke in ~1270, all of the dragons, except Mordremoth (because of Scarlet) were 50 years apart, even bubbles. He rose after Zhaitan and before Kralkatorrik… that cutscene was riddled with errors, like Mordremoth and Zhaitan being mixed up. It’s definitely clear they normally awaken within 50 years of each other, Primordus and Mordremoth attempted to do so prematurely, with Mordremoth being successful. So I’m it appears, ~1270 is when the aquatic races flee inland, which is the only confirmed event Bubbles was responsible for.

That was the original thought but keep in mind two things:

Primordus awoke late. If he didn’t – if he awoke when his herald was going to wake him like Jormag, Mordremoth, and likely Zhaitan did – he would have awoken 100 years before Jormag.

Kralkatorrik awoke late as well. He, unlike the other Elder Dragons, didn’t have a herald because of Glint’s betrayal. Still, he was able to awaken, but it was late.

EVERY Elder Dragon established heralds. Jormag had Drakkar, Primordus had the Great Destroyer, Kralkatorrik had Glint, Zhaitan’s was likely the Giganticus Lupicus (whom we know to be from the previous rise), and Mordremoth’s was likely those in the cave the Pale Tree’s seed and Malyck’s tree’s seed was found in. Kralkatorrik’s and Mordremoth’s heralds were changed to fight their masters, so Kralkatorrik awoke late – but Mordremoth made a sufficient back-up plan through Scarlet; Primordus’ herald was killed, and thus prolonged his awakening.

The 50 year thing was just something players noticed at first, but still questioned due to Primordus and the lack of a date for the DSD.

As Walhalla said, 1275 AE is the earliest known date of DSD activity. Which was pushing the quaggan out of their homeland. The DSD didn’t awake upon the quaggan, but the krait, and we don’t know how far apart their homelands are, nor if the krait fled immediately.

If we didn’t kill the Great Destroyer, if the Forgotten didn’t free Glint, then the awakening time/order would likely be:

Primordus ~ 1080 AE
DSD ~ 1130 AE
Jormag ~ 1180 AE
Zhaitan ~ 1230 AE
Kralkatorrik ~1280 AE
Mordremoth ~ 1330 AE

Plus/minus up to 20 years.

Primordus and Kralkatorrik’s awakenings were pushed back, thus they awoke around the same time (plus/minus 10-ish years) to the subsequent-to-awaken Elder Dragon (DSD and Mordremoth respectively).