Eotn was less than half of HoT and HoT is just 10$ more.
I like how you count HoT points of interest as exploration “content” but then completely ignore 124 quests and other stuff like Oggy from EotN.
I don’t think comparing quests to PoIs, in terms of exploration is an accurate thing to do. GW2 Events are supposed to be what quests where in EotN. Both are technically part of exploration. So if we wish to count EotN quests, then we need to tally up and included all of the new events in HoT. (Do we even have a list of all of them on wiki yet?)
Point was – there was plenty of stuff to explore and find, except it just wasn’t marked with a dot on the map. His “calculation” is not nearly quantitative and it can’t be. there were certainly impressive vistas in EotN, but you didn’t have to push F.
And if we’re counting events, then do EotN boss packs count? There’s plenty of GW2 events that are just “kill this champ/vet”. What about the “rabbit hole” in Drakkar Lake? That’s certainly like an event.
No comparison is accurate, honestly. Apples and Oranges, our two games. But people try. shrug
I’m on the fence on whether boss packs should count or not. I mean, we do have similar things in GW2 that don’t trigger events too, as well as (as you pointed out) ones that do. Should both then count here as well given that we are counting non-quest event-like components of EotN? Or do we limit it to “actual quests” and “actual events”? And then, there is the whole subjective component to take into consideration.
Too much headache is you ask me. Better questions people should be asking are simply: Do you enjoy it? Do you feel you got your moneys worth out of it? Very simple yes or no questions. If the answer is “no” to either of them, then an evaluation of why one feels that way is indeed in order; however, simply saying ‘well this game gave me this’ is not the way to do it. Because this is not that game.
Right, we’re actually on the same side of the argument – it’s somewhat silly to “compare” at this level of detail. My questions were merely rhetorical.
Just covering all the bases
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
Eotn was less than half of HoT and HoT is just 10$ more.
I like how you count HoT points of interest as exploration “content” but then completely ignore 124 quests and other stuff like Oggy from EotN.
I don’t think comparing quests to PoIs, in terms of exploration is an accurate thing to do. GW2 Events are supposed to be what quests where in EotN. Both are technically part of exploration. So if we wish to count EotN quests, then we need to tally up and included all of the new events in HoT. (Do we even have a list of all of them on wiki yet?)
Point was – there was plenty of stuff to explore and find, except it just wasn’t marked with a dot on the map. His “calculation” is not nearly quantitative and it can’t be. there were certainly impressive vistas in EotN, but you didn’t have to push F.
And if we’re counting events, then do EotN boss packs count? There’s plenty of GW2 events that are just “kill this champ/vet”. What about the “rabbit hole” in Drakkar Lake? That’s certainly like an event.
No comparison is accurate, honestly. Apples and Oranges, our two games. But people try. shrug
I’m on the fence on whether boss packs should count or not. I mean, we do have similar things in GW2 that don’t trigger events too, as well as (as you pointed out) ones that do. Should both then count here as well given that we are counting non-quest event-like components of EotN? Or do we limit it to “actual quests” and “actual events”? And then, there is the whole subjective component to take into consideration.
Too much headache is you ask me. Better questions people should be asking are simply: Do you enjoy it? Do you feel you got your moneys worth out of it? Very simple yes or no questions. If the answer is “no” to either of them, then an evaluation of why one feels that way is indeed in order; however, simply saying ‘well this game gave me this’ is not the way to do it. Because this is not that game.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
Eotn was less than half of HoT and HoT is just 10$ more.
I like how you count HoT points of interest as exploration “content” but then completely ignore 124 quests and other stuff like Oggy from EotN.
I don’t think comparing quests to PoIs, in terms of exploration is an accurate thing to do. GW2 Events are supposed to be what quests where in EotN. Both are technically part of exploration. So if we wish to count EotN quests, then we need to tally up and included all of the new events in HoT. (Do we even have a list of all of them on wiki yet?)
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
Granted, if you played (and enjoyed) primarily a rupt / shut down mes in GW1, there really isn’t anything quite the same (or controlling) here, which can be saddening.
Yep, that’s what my main was (and still is when I go play Guild Wars 1 for a while). Except I referred to my mesmer as an “Interrupt Specialist.”
I was much the same. I used mes primarily for pvp purposes just to kitten people off with interrupts. I had soooooo much fun.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
I tried the GW2 mesmer and it’s every bit as fun (for me), just completely different.
U are clearly lying.
Nah, it’s just completely personal preference.
I concur with Illconceived. The GW2 mesmer, while completely different from it’s GW1 counterpart, can be just as fun. You just have to understand and accept that they are different creatures. The base concept is the same (illusion, manipulation, control), but their play styles are not. Granted, if you played (and enjoyed) primarily a rupt / shut down mes in GW1, there really isn’t anything quite the same (or controlling) here, which can be saddening.
LMAO – “shutdown mes” I haven’t heard that term in about 10 years?
I remember I used to advertise in Team Arenas this build…
I do believe I just got called “old” ….
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
I tried the GW2 mesmer and it’s every bit as fun (for me), just completely different.
U are clearly lying.
Nah, it’s just completely personal preference.
I concur with Illconceived. The GW2 mesmer, while completely different from it’s GW1 counterpart, can be just as fun. You just have to understand and accept that they are different creatures. The base concept is the same (illusion, manipulation, control), but their play styles are not. Granted, if you played (and enjoyed) primarily a rupt / shut down mes in GW1, there really isn’t anything quite the same (or controlling) here, which can be saddening.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
I have managed to beat my previous best (11) twice. Once with 13. Once with 15. I’ve not been able to do repeat performance of either of those numbers though lol. Oddly, the 15 run session I wasted a crap ton of time chatting at each check point. XD Had I just played (and not screwed up any attempts), I probably could have squeezed it to 17!
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
Hm… a pity. I don’t condone cheating, don’t particularly like it happening, but I can understand what might drive people to do it. Its a risk some people feel the need to take.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
And how would pvp leagues work into this? On one hand you’re saying absolutely no teaming allowed for league play, on the other you’re telling solo players (casual or otherwise) to go kitten themselves.
First or second suggestion?
If first: As stated would be an individual thing, this means some harsh consequences as not having team finals … probably first approach is not e-sport wise unless legendary tier becomes team only Q.
Second suggestion would be better for this, those who want to have have fun and have interesting matches can play unranked for soloQ, …those who want to be competitive will have to team up or die (current state of ranked, just that those who want to solo, still have a decent alternative).
So, with your first suggestion – league play (being limited to ranked) would be solo play only. If you want to play with your friends, oh well go to unranked, no league progress for you? It also shuts down the whole guild challenger league, since that uses ranked as far as I’m aware. So, that nixes this option based on the e-sports drive.
Which leaves us with option 2 – ranked being team only. Which results in people not being able to progress league play unless their friends are online to play with, and in chasing some of the casual players away because we are (again) removing yet more of the ‘play how you want’ option. Resulting in yet a smaller pool of available pvp players. Yes, they could still play unranked, but for those that simple came over to try to earn those cute little league wings? GFTO yeah?
Neither seems like a great option honestly. Either way you’re going to kitten off one group or another.
Guild league should be a whole different thing and maybe the organized team option you might be looking for for ranked team action. To be honest open team ranking comes with a lots of exploits we are seeing now, you can also just carry order members to higher tiers as you exploit it too, that just make leagues to reflect cunning instead of actual skills. Yes organized professional team play is a thing, so let’s make it a formal thing… it was like that in the past and failed because the queue times? that’s a problem that should be addressed on its own, once again can be guild league with nice rewards…
about the wings thing, this can be solved in many other ways that are off topic atm.
I agree, the current system has its flaws. I just didn’t see either of the proposed solutions as ideal either.
Even if we do split it out into solo and team qs again, where do you stick those duo and trio q’ers? If you put them in team q’s you’re going to have a lot of the same complaints. So do we limit it to all or nothing then, like old RA / TA? That doesn’t exactly fix the issue either.
Of course, simply forcing teams doesn’t “fix” some of the exploits at hand either. As you pointed out, people can be carried.
Unfortunately a lot of these exact same issues existed in GW1 as well.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
And how would pvp leagues work into this? On one hand you’re saying absolutely no teaming allowed for league play, on the other you’re telling solo players (casual or otherwise) to go kitten themselves.
First or second suggestion?
If first: As stated would be an individual thing, this means some harsh consequences as not having team finals … probably first approach is not e-sport wise unless legendary tier becomes team only Q.
Second suggestion would be better for this, those who want to have have fun and have interesting matches can play unranked for soloQ, …those who want to be competitive will have to team up or die (current state of ranked, just that those who want to solo, still have a decent alternative).
So, with your first suggestion – league play (being limited to ranked) would be solo play only. If you want to play with your friends, oh well go to unranked, no league progress for you? It also shuts down the whole guild challenger league, since that uses ranked as far as I’m aware. So, that nixes this option based on the e-sports drive.
Which leaves us with option 2 – ranked being team only. Which results in people not being able to progress league play unless their friends are online to play with, and in chasing some of the casual players away because we are (again) removing yet more of the ‘play how you want’ option. Resulting in yet a smaller pool of available pvp players. Yes, they could still play unranked, but for those that simple came over to try to earn those cute little league wings? GFTO yeah?
Neither seems like a great option honestly. Either way you’re going to kitten off one group or another.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
And how would pvp leagues work into this? On one hand you’re saying absolutely no teaming allowed for league play, on the other you’re telling solo players (casual or otherwise) to go kitten themselves.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
Lol Azure. It never has known, doesn’t presently know, and will never know what it wants. The day the ‘community’ fully embraces healthy balance where at least one person isn’t kittened off, the world will end. It’ll just implode from shock.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
kitten ….. I must have missed a memo… stuffs her latest character (#19) into nearest closet and walks away whistling innocently
Welcome to “Too Many Characters Anonymous”.
We here would like to enroll you in our too many characters program.
I’ll be your guide. I myself have 20 characters and 15 of them are max level and ascended or exotic geared. While being here you enjoy the free refreshments annually. An empty wallet and a wardrobe the size of Texas. Along with countless hours of logging into each of them into farming maps.
We understand your side effects being, but not limited to;
1) lack of transmutation stones
2) lack of in game gold
3) having more than 2 of the same class and don’t know why.
4) Slight OCD problems with characters and their location on the log in screen.
We here at TMCA once more Welcome you, and your problems and will do our best to help you.
Can’t breathe…. laughing way too hard!
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
The loudest complaint, since essentially day 1, has been (and probably always will be) “long wait times.” It has been such since the game began, regardless of separate q’s existing or not. Part of the reason for the merging of the q’s was to help alleviate this issue. Granted, I have never been a mainstay in the pvp crowd, but I do wander in on occasion. That complaint never goes away.
As such, there is only so much they can do to compensate. No, don’t read that as “it’s fine” because I agree that it’s not fine. The system has its flaws, and I hrumph about it too. I understand that people feel that breaking the q’s apart would be good, but I disagree. We would simply end up right back where we started and the cycle would begin again.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
Unfortunately they don’t post here first (as much as we would like them too). It is likely easier to post to reddit first (white knight incoming) due to not having to jump through hoops to do it. (It also seems to give them more ‘deniability’ if something goes wrong)
Sometimes they post here first, sometime on Reddit. Usually, on Reddit, I see a ton of posts linking back to “red posts” on the forums.
I don’t think it really matters except that someone in their communications department hasn’t made it easy to spread the news around. There’s no reason why the forums couldn’t include cross links to reddit.
Oh yes, they used to. And sure, sometimes they still do, but for the most part, most of it seems to come through reddit now. Which is why Flesh made that handy thread for us. Given what’s been said, it just sounds like theres too many hoops and too much post ‘sanitation’ if they want to put things here. Which is sad.
And no, there’s no reason to not use the assorted alternative methods of communication. We’ve had a similar gripe about twitter, facebook, etc posts that never get around to being put on here. What they need is some sort of rss feed that gathers all of those into one place for us. For quick/easy reference and visibility. Similar to how the dev forum records all of the red post activity.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
Tried a bit Saturday night, got rofl-stomped into oblivion.
Tried again yesterday. Played pretty much all day, noticed an interesting pattern. Win 3, Lose 1. Repeat. Thought was just coincidence at first, but nope, it persisted even after swapping to a class I rarely ever play and I’m really not very good at (because I haven’t spent much time with it). Persisted after swapping to yet a third class to play on. 3 wins, 1 loss, repeat. Without fail. I laughed myself silly.
I guess on the upside I went from 0 progress in the pvp league thing to T3 Emerald…in about 8 or so hours. shrug That’s a freaking miracle for me.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
I agree with some of the comments made. Not all, but some.
I will absolutely agree that both the core game, and HoT where both shipped far too early. But… I’ve been saying the first for years, and said much the same about HoT when they revealed the release date. shrug
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
I don’t mind them doing bundles for ‘discounts’ so long as they release the items individually (obviously at normal price) so people have the choice. Some decide they want the bundle (cause they can/will use most/everything in it) and others don’t (because they just want one or two items).
Options are good things.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
Unfortunately they don’t post here first (as much as we would like them too). It is likely easier to post to reddit first (white knight incoming) due to not having to jump through hoops to do it. (It also seems to give them more ‘deniability’ if something goes wrong)
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
Lanfear, you know people don’t teach kids anymore. They dump um at the nearest daycare so mommy &daddy (or mommy&mommy, or daddy&daddy, or Idon’tidentifywithagender&genderstereotypesaresoooopasse) can continue their own lives. Also TV.
Besides, the real problem is obviously the extreme racial bias against skritt. It teaches kids that immediately resorting to violence and physically abusing people different than you is ok if its in the holiday spirit. (Note: While rewarding you for doing exactly what the skritt are trying to do)
This made me laugh til I cried. Ty Snow.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
I can understand the OPs frustration. Granted, this year I have finally managed to complete it, but it took a lot of time and repeated failures since I’m terrible at platforming. Still, I have noted a few quirks with the puzzle which add to some of the frustration:
Presents will randomly pop without their warning shake
Red rings desync from the snowball pattern which can play havoc with the timing
Invisble snowballs…nuff said
It can all be worked around, as many of us have shown by doing the puzzle repeatedly. It just gets a touch annoying at times.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
In my opinion the Cipher quests and final part “Path of revelations” were hinting at something about what’s going on with the gods and these dragons.
The same facets from Glint’s Lair. Yeah, each one of them was tied to a god, but they were referred to diffently. Light, Nature, Chaos, Darkness, Elements, and Strength (each tied to not only a god, but also a base class).
The most interesting part to me was Kerrsh’s analysis, and his working theory throughout the quests. It seemed to hint that a part of teh eternal alchemy involved power transference. So maybe gods were not always gods, and someday a new pantheon will emerge.
I’m sure the inquest would know more about all this than I would.
I think the biggest plot hole (if you will) with the dragon / gods theory is that from the lore we have, the dragons have always been a part of Tyria while the human gods came from ‘elsewhere.’ The issue here is that we don’t know what or where that ‘elsewhere’ is. They could be truly alien, which could debunk the theory.Or they could all be part of some greater whole of which we have no knowledge, offshoots (facets) of a greater power. Or they could be some sort of kin, like calling to like so to speak. Who knows.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
But yeah, little too late here OP. People are of the opinion that story content, pve open world, and dungeons are ‘sufficient content’ for small guilds. If you want to raid, or do wvw, etc…small guilds please don’t apply.
i am saying the entirety of gw2 since hot has been very large group oriented and has made it more and more difficult to enjoy as a small group/solo and i don’t want another part of the game to do that and lock out smaller groups, including people who play solo
Ah yeah, you’re a bit late to the party. Been a lot of fuss over this for some time now.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
I also have both (feel free to check my HoM). Both are definitely a decent chunk of work, but I think GWAMM is harder. It’s the title for completing titles, where as a lot of the things for HoM you can just throw coin at. You can buy all the hero gear, you can pay for spider runs, and fow forge runs, etc etc. Some titles, sure you can do a bit of the same, but no where near the same extent.
shrug
Just my 2c
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
In my opinion the Cipher quests and final part “Path of revelations” were hinting at something about what’s going on with the gods and these dragons.
The same facets from Glint’s Lair. Yeah, each one of them was tied to a god, but they were referred to diffently. Light, Nature, Chaos, Darkness, Elements, and Strength (each tied to not only a god, but also a base class).
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
Remember, the dragons existed prior to some of those races (eg humans). So you’d need to match them to the races around during previous rises to make that connection work as well. I cannot remember if 6 races existed previously that were involved directly in the battle – Im sure someone else can recall that info though.
I want to say we’ve had 5 named, but I can only come up with 4 off the top of my head. The Jotun, the Seers, the Mursaat, and the Forgotten. Its been a while since Ive gone digging through the lore. I don’t think anything matches up perfectly, but we have a lot of holes in the lore still too. (What I wouldn’t give to go pick a few brains at Anet)
Edit: Oh, the dwarves. Wow I’m out of it today…
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
ng back to the 5 dragons, 5 races thing from when the game was introd?
Like you said though, we could still get another dragon centric race. The Largos would fit quite well with Bubbles.
Kinda, yeah. From the beginning there were hints that there was one more dragon out there. If there had been six player races, then it would have created a pattern that also hinted at a sixth dragon.
The pattern is that power gets divided into six parts, by its nature. So now, instead of the pattern hinting at another dragon, it hints that we should have one more major race on our side.
I really really hope they don’t add the Largos, though. I don’t like them, but more importantly they’ll lose a lot of their ‘cool’ factor as mysterious assassins if they become a player race and we learn a lot more about them.
Learning more about them wouldnt be a bad thing though. But Tengu wouldnt really fit for a water based dragon. At least I don’t think they would. Right now, we have races that can match decently with the dragons:
But yeah, little too late here OP. People are of the opinion that story content, pve open world, and dungeons are ‘sufficient content’ for small guilds. If you want to raid, or do wvw, etc…small guilds please don’t apply.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
I think it’s more that there are patterns that things in Tyria naturally fall into, even with magic. The gods, the dragons, and even the player races are all subject to these patterns.
Six is simply a number that tends to turn up as a part of that pattern.
However, the devs may decide to change that, and toss out the idea behind it and give some other reason for it at some point in the future. After all, the sixth player race (Tengu) never made it in, so there’s a[i] [/i]hole in that plan already. Going into the whole “pattern of six” idea would pretty much require them to become playable, and they may not want to do that now.
Im assuming with the player races you’re going back to the 5 dragons, 5 races thing from when the game was introd?
Like you said though, we could still get another dragon centric race. The Largos would fit quite well with Bubbles.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
The book says there isn’t enough proof to prove it; conversely there is also not enough to disprove it either.
It’s hard to match the dragons and the god up directly. Especially when we start taking Abaddon and Dhuum into account, as well as the fact that what the gods currently represent has changed a bit over time.
If you take the original 6 gods and pair them with the dragons, they match up pretty well. It could be argued that maybe they aren’t intended to match up as say death -> death though, instead as opposites death -> life (ie: Zhaitan -> Dwayna). Either way, its not a perfect match. Not without a heck of a lot more information.
True, but without the devs coming out and telling us one way or the other (The book does not do that contrary to what people say) all we can do is theorize. To me there is enough evidence to support the theory so until I’m given more information to tip my opinion the other direction I’ll go on believing it just as others will go on believing the opposite. This post is just here for people to discuss it, or to bring awareness to others who haven’t made the connection.
I agree with you. I do find it extremely coincidental that we suddenly have 6 dragons, and we happen to have 6 human gods. However, until we have more info, there isn’t anything more we can do than speculate.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
The book says there isn’t enough proof to prove it; conversely there is also not enough to disprove it either.
It’s hard to match the dragons and the god up directly. Especially when we start taking Abaddon and Dhuum into account, as well as the fact that what the gods currently represent has changed a bit over time.
If you take the original 6 gods and pair them with the dragons, they match up pretty well. It could be argued that maybe they aren’t intended to match up as say death → death though, instead as opposites death → life (ie: Zhaitan → Dwayna). Either way, its not a perfect match. Not without a heck of a lot more information.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
Further Edit:
Abaddon is the original god of Water, however, after his fall, she took over that ‘role’
“She is also considered to be related to chaos and non-specific elemental energy; she was only openly tied to water after the death of Abaddon in 1075 AE.”
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
The theory has been argued. They share similarities. They share color schemes (to an extent, which would actually pair Lyssa with Kralk). Beyond that…who knows.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
I’ll agree with the elite specs need some balance passes. Right now there are certain specs that are..out of whack. I’m not going to do the whole ‘omg it’s op!’ because in some instances that’s not the case. Part of the issue is (as with all new classes) people need to learn the counters, not that the skills themselves are ‘OP’ (though there is some of that too). Hopefully Anet can balance things appropriately with time, and being a ‘reaper’ won’t be ‘necessary’ as opposed to just being a ‘necromancer.’ Just an an example. We’ll see.
Beyond that though…. the expansion isn’t different from any other game’s expansion in this regard (the adding of new classes). That alone isn’t necessarily “pay to win.” Because you can still win without the elites.
I still think people need to learn wtf “pay to win” actually is. Cause GW2….not even close.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
