“berserker stance clears all CC on you and you’re still immune to CC for 8 seconds”
-Excalibur.9748
When doing the trial for each candidate Gnashblade says he wants the loot for himself and Kiel says she wants to return the loot to its owner. Why on earth would anyone want to elect Evon Gnashblade to “serve the people”?
And before anyone answers “Abaddon”, would you really rather have a visual representation of lore you’ve known for eight years over a chance to learn something entirely new about the world of Tyria in the Reactor Meltdown?
because game is all about experiencing visual representation and adventuring epic battles, who cares if a selfish NPC got a spot in the leadership, it won’t affect us, even it does in a living story way, i would rather have a bad guy so the story can get really interesting.
Who uses arcing slice? Damage output is not good, and fury is easy to attain on the warrior. If you move it to main bar it’ll get used more, but it will definitely need some work. The animation takes too long, and it misses a lot. Not viable for pvp, or pve.
The animation is the biggest downfall. It’ll never be feasible regardless of how it’s changed until it gets ironed out. If it ever does, I think it’d be interesting if arcing slice did something other than give adrenaline. Maybe give it some retaliation or have it apply some confusion.
Cleansing Ire, Building Momentum + one hit burst skill = profit. Pve wise as well, saved me alot during lupis, shaman.
i do admit that the damage isn’t that great, but the fury sure is good as an additional effect, fury is not that easy to attain by warrior tbh, for 18 seconds we dont have fury, more when you dont have signet cd-20%, only if you run fgj sor build..which probably no one uses in tpvp. and the additional fury is great to fill that gap since now most of the pvp builds dont need to sit on adrenaline.
Gonna have to disagree here. If you’re in PvE and you use burst for arcing slice, you just lost what is it ~15% dps until adrenaline fills back up. Great justice, and elite will about keep you perma in fury considering if you have 1 other warrior or any other class that can apply fury.
In PvP, it’s just awful xD
as i said, fury is an ADDITIONAL EFFECT, i never said that we don’t have good fury in PvE, i did say TPVP when i was talking that part, if you clearly didn’t see it.
i like how you ignore a majority of my comment and misunderstood the rest
OK! I’ll take your word at it mate, no need to get all yelly……..it’s just a forum.
@Copen, totally agree with you about the zerker war.
Sorry for the caps, not being yelly, just wanted to highlight the parts, which i have no idea how to do in a forum so i used caps.
Who uses arcing slice? Damage output is not good, and fury is easy to attain on the warrior. If you move it to main bar it’ll get used more, but it will definitely need some work. The animation takes too long, and it misses a lot. Not viable for pvp, or pve.
The animation is the biggest downfall. It’ll never be feasible regardless of how it’s changed until it gets ironed out. If it ever does, I think it’d be interesting if arcing slice did something other than give adrenaline. Maybe give it some retaliation or have it apply some confusion.
Cleansing Ire, Building Momentum + one hit burst skill = profit. Pve wise as well, saved me alot during lupis, shaman.
i do admit that the damage isn’t that great, but the fury sure is good as an additional effect, fury is not that easy to attain by warrior tbh, for 18 seconds we dont have fury, more when you dont have signet cd-20%, only if you run fgj sor build..which probably no one uses in tpvp. and the additional fury is great to fill that gap since now most of the pvp builds dont need to sit on adrenaline.
Gonna have to disagree here. If you’re in PvE and you use burst for arcing slice, you just lost what is it ~15% dps until adrenaline fills back up. Great justice, and elite will about keep you perma in fury considering if you have 1 other warrior or any other class that can apply fury.
In PvP, it’s just awful xD
as i said, fury is an ADDITIONAL EFFECT, i never said that we don’t have good fury in PvE, i did say TPVP when i was talking that part, if you clearly didn’t see it.
i like how you ignore a MAJORITY of my comment and misunderstood the rest
(edited by Lighter.5631)
How about you stop making new thread for one single phrased opinion without any arugment when theres like over 100 threads about GS F1, it gets annoying
Yea, sure, we know all of those on wiki, but i want to experience this epic moment in game with cool graphics and sound tracks!
i’ve experienced so many lab explosions
Who uses arcing slice? Damage output is not good, and fury is easy to attain on the warrior. If you move it to main bar it’ll get used more, but it will definitely need some work. The animation takes too long, and it misses a lot. Not viable for pvp, or pve.
The animation is the biggest downfall. It’ll never be feasible regardless of how it’s changed until it gets ironed out. If it ever does, I think it’d be interesting if arcing slice did something other than give adrenaline. Maybe give it some retaliation or have it apply some confusion.
Cleansing Ire, Building Momentum + one hit burst skill = profit. Pve wise as well, saved me alot during lupis, shaman.
i do admit that the damage isn’t that great, but the fury sure is good as an additional effect, fury is not that easy to attain by warrior tbh, for 18 seconds we dont have fury, more when you dont have signet cd-20%, only if you run fgj sor build..which probably no one uses in tpvp. and the additional fury is great to fill that gap since now most of the pvp builds dont need to sit on adrenaline.
(edited by Lighter.5631)
No thank you on changing 100 Blades. All this would do is destroy the synergy it has with Mace/Shield currently. This would be an unneeded change that would just hurt the class further imo.
I wonder what if someone want to pair gs with something else than this gimmick build?
Not everyone love to standing in one place like a mo. for over 3sec and carry mace/shield to make a single skill work
You don’t like to stand in one place for over 3 sec? then don’t play it, either it being F1 or not, you still have to stand there for 3 sec non the less. don’t play the weapon is the best choice for you. Oh, you don’t want a mace shield for the gimmick build? try hammer, and i’ve also paired GS with LB, Axe/shield, Sword/shield, if you didn’t know these things exist.
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While we’re moving things … Cleansing wave from Ele off dagger to Ele off focus?
Let’s talk about balance. Imagine a good old weighing scales with two plates.
Now think about why everybody takes offhand dagger instead of focus. Superior mobility, superior healing, and sinergizing burst or control skills.What would I change:
Offhand dagger:
Ride the Lightning range reduced to 1000. 30s CD at all timesScepter:
Shatterstone removed
Water Trident moved to slot 2. CD reduced to 10 seconds, healing reduced by 30%, damage increased by 30% (made up numbers, you get the point).
Alternative Water Trident moved to slot 2. CD reduced to 10 seconds. No longer heals. Damage increased by 30% (made up number, you get the point), it now applies 10 stacks of vulnerability for 10 seconds.
New skill Freezing Speed. Water. slot 3. CD 15 seconds. 600 range. Slide forward and strike the area leaving your foes vulnerable and leaving behind an icy line that chills foes.
New skill alternative Slippery Speed. Water. slot 3. CD 15 seconds. 600 range. Slide backwards and do an area burst heal leaving an icy line that chills foes.^basically an improved water version of Burning Speed
Dagger mainhand:
Burning Speed charge range increased to 600, blast area increased.Focus:
Freezing Gust revamped. Is now a targeted area (same area as dragon’s tooth possibly smaller). It no longer requires you to face your enemy to cast it, still affected by LoS. It lasts 3 seconds, it pulses direct damage every second as well as chill, it now does a final burst heal at the end (heal similar to Cleansing Wave). CD increased to 30 seconds, casting remains the same. Moved to slot 5.
Comet damage increased by 33%, area increased to 180. Moved to slot 4.
Swirling Winds In addition to its current functionality, now gives you and allies in the area swiftness on cast. 10 seconds duration.
Gale Now affects a small cone area. No longer requires you to face your enemy, still affected by LoS.
Flame Wall this skill is now three times as broader, now lasts for 5 seconds, its persistent direct damage has been doubed. Cast time reduced to ½s.Thoughts?
Thoughts = please don’t steal thread, make your own.
I just think it’s cute that we have this thread going concurrently with a thread that’s saying Necro’s have no survivability, death shroud is horrible, and that Necro’s, in order to be viable, need to start PvP with life force.
:)
Not everyone want’s to take a 60 second cd just to be viable.
i’m sure warriors do.
Maybe 100B becomes the burst and Rush moves to the main bar?
DISCUSS!
No, please, don‘t ever think about switching Arcing with HB.
Maybe Arcing need a little bit of damage buff, but that’s it. HB as a burst skill would be so bad,
I liked Arcing as a burst skill, A quick caste burst that gives the damage you need to down an enemy real quick, or with Building Momentum, it gives you a quick endurance refill to avoid enemy’s big hit or cleansing ire to quickly get rid of condis, its really good. and the fury is nice too. but i wouldn’t say no if you are going to replace it with a new quick casting high damage burst skill.
and making HB a burst skill is just going to be bad, 10 second cd, and you have to put 30 points in to a completely unrelated line for it to be 7 seconds and lost damage from other related traits, sure you can boost its damage by a lot to maybe equalize, but still this change will make it even harder to land and less compensated for landing it. Or if you can give it a stun, immo or anything, but i don’t think thats possible
But actually, thinking about it more, Arcing/Rush/100b. All those could be moved, but what would it do?
What if the CD on 100B was reduced and it moved to 5? WHat would happen if 100B went to burst and Arcing went main bar?
100B CD reduce would be nice, but whats the different between 2 and 5. i mean you can rebind and all, but 2 is better because it should be closer to the hand as a skill with low CD
OFF TOPIC: please remove leg specialist’s ICD, it destroys builds, i’d see cripple from swords auto chain go, instead of having a ICD for LS. maybe replace it with torment or just give it high damage like before, and also, you moved final thurst from auto to 3, but you forgot to move the special effect and the sound effect too, i think it helps the gameplay alot. now hamstring is doing slash with a thrust effect..
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http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-ug-Bx;0NKVO0d4kK-60;9;5O-TE;139;224A5;0R-F2U;1OZG5OZG53Ni
here it is, well, didn`t used that much time to come up with it, but after a few matches, i think it‘s really cool.
Do you think Banner of Strength or Banner of Discipline would be better? If you went with an offensive banner, you’d significantly increase your ability to pressure people off of the point. With Strength, you’d see over a 10% increase in damage. With Discipline, you’d push your crit chance up into the 40s… I can’t test right now, but with that 30% boon duration from Tactics, your Regen should already be hitting for 4 seconds instead of 3… I doubt you even need that 10% boon duration outside of it granting another 3 seconds on your elite and 1/2 second to your might stacks… both of which are next to nothing when compared to an additional 170 power/condi dmg or prec/15% crit damage.
i thought that healing power would benefits more because i get 3 kind of regen ticking at the same time, if im not wrong. in additional, 40% boon duration you can get 42 second signet of fury and 11 second stability.
probably gem store
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-ug-Bx;0NKVO0d4kK-60;9;5O-TE;139;224A5;0R-F2U;1OZG5OZG53Ni
here it is, well, didn`t used that much time to come up with it, but after a few matches, i think it‘s really cool.
What is the uppercut skill from rampage, do rampage have 6 skills?
yes, let’s give all the good skill to one weapon set so it can be op and everyone will use it.
maybe you should watch a engineer solo fotm volcano final boss.
Warriors can solo the entire ascalon fractal at level 20 and arah paths. So there is a bias here even if engis can solo legendaries.
tell me how the entire ascalon fractal and arah paths is more difficult then volcano final boss. please, tell me.
Oh right, you count that shaman as a normal legendary? i guess you just don’t know what you are talking about, not to be rude, but maybe you should shut up about it if you don’t know anything.
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i wish warrior had direct damage immune at 25% without cooldown.
i mean, the meta now is condition right? who cares about direct damage.
Have been theory-crafting a new build these days. I think warrior is very good now if you run my new build, and I think we don’t need any buffs. If they buff the warrior, my build will become OP… and getting nerf because the community’s complain. I don’t really want that happen to my warrior because I theory-craft so hard lol…
regards.
but which build you are talking about, i checked your thread, theres a few builds which are updated in the same date.
The one at the top, LB/Hammer
haha, thanks, i do like it as a cc build compare to the mace shield sword mace build some one posted and it does fit in to the meta, love the cc combo(played with bullcharge for so long :P) while not missing lb awesome aoe support. but im not sure it will be op if they buff warrior tho, since i still think that gs/lb zerker is more awesome, i’d say its a nice alt of it.
Have been theory-crafting a new build these days. I think warrior is very good now if you run my new build, and I think we don’t need any buffs. If they buff the warrior, my build will become OP… and getting nerf because the community’s complain. I don’t really want that happen to my warrior because I theory-craft so hard lol…
regards.
but which build you are talking about, i checked your thread, theres a few builds which are updated in the same date.
Stop, just stop it people. While you guys are crying about warriors suck, there is someone already made a very strong build and been running in tournaments. The build is really viable and counters current Meta. Stop crying before you really understand warrior. Don’t just make lots of posts, lots of comments, lots of videos to make people think warrior sucks.
A warrior in high tier level pvp is there and been running a strong warrior comp, and people cannot handle it including me (I have faced the warrior today).
I don’t know if this will bothers the guy that I’m talking about, but I’m going to give out his name so people will go watch/ask him before you cry to warriors.
His name is Anas Tarcis, please, go ask him something before you cry so kitten warriors.
It is really annoy to see a community to cry on a thing because they all suck, and it is really annoy to see a community to cry on a thing that actually good.
yet anastarcis thinks that warrior need buff. ok
Now the warrior isn’t the strongest in PvP, but I think too many people here make him out to be like complete trash which is not true. I rather think that the majority of warriors are just bad. They pick up the class and expect to steam roll through the enemy. This is why I was really happy that 100b frenzy got nerfed because it was increasingly detrimental to good warrior gameplay.
In the current state there are two main groups that I see. There are those that still whine that warrior has no sustain, how they can’t keep fighting and keep loosing to other classes. Then there are those who have figured something different out. That might be CC (hammer mace) , condi or some other strat, but it seems to work. Not as great as other builds but still decent, to a point where a little bit of skill advantage will make you win against most classes.
Now these days I’m not sure of I should support those calling for buffs in hopes of getting something better (hehe) or trying to prove them wrong..
people can’t prove them wrong because they are right,
more like “hopes of getting something better” or “try to deal with it themselves with some build that is close to viable yet not.”
and there’s a thing called both, try it out, its awesome
(edited by Lighter.5631)
While killing 10k players you’re getting massive loot rewards, potential dailies/monthlies and a lot more.
Sure, there are daily jumping puzzles, but you’re not going to get that more than once for each unique jumping puzzle finish (if you even get it when you complete a unique jumping puzzle).
And you can get a precursor from a JP chest. Point?
And you can get tons of precursors from 10k players.
Warrior does not need fixing. Other classes need fixing. They need a lot of cheese removed.
+1, have been saying this for a long time.
edit: but that might just be too many work.
(edited by Lighter.5631)
i wouldnt use the same build for pve and wvw..
but for fractal i use 30 25 0 0 15
wvw you can use 25 25 0 0 20
if zerker wvw is your thing.
I’ll give you it puts you on the right path to a fix, but if everyone is yelling out flaws then it just becomes a jumbled mess of an assembly. People like myself who take these considerations and actually try to implement them or to fill gaps / niches see this as everyone yelling at the same time.
It’s more beneficial to the community to be clear and concise with information on hand to back up a claim and a potential solution for the situation.
But it’s easier to just say ‘Your chair’s legs are bad’ instead of figuring out how to make them sturdier.
Well, Why would you buy a chair that have one leg shorter then the others and fix it yourself by placing a small pill of paper under it. 1st sure it works, but its not a good fix.
2nd, its designer’s job to build a good chair that is working, and we have the right to complaint.
what a good thing to do, is put a pill of paper under it for now(what most us doing right now or else we’d quit warrior and play something else),
and keep complaining over and over again(what most of us are doing right now as well , which is a good thing) till they actually send you a new chair that is working.
yet i do agree some of the people do exaggerate too much, but its understandable due to the disappointment over and over again
(edited by Lighter.5631)
you know why warrior is bad in pvp and everything else is good? because everything else just have more damage mitigation, maybe you should try it out instead of facerolling dps.
(edited by Lighter.5631)
maybe you should watch a engineer solo fotm volcano final boss.
war guard mes dont out class everything else, its just the pve content in general are too easy and facerolling, or maybe you should stop facerolling dps yourself
(edited by Lighter.5631)
having top players wouldn’t be any better then avg players. most likely they do have their cons as a top player when giving advice, so do avg players, better to listen to all.
Nice copy paste from the previous thread.
I had to copy paste it because you spent every ounce of your available energy to completely dismiss it as “moaning” without providing any logical reason.
dat delicious single minded passive-aggressiveness.
Ontopic; I can now see how you might provide a specific purpose with said build in a team-composition that builds arounds it to great effect. It’s like the GS/Mace build but with more focus on opening up pesky necros like a can-opener of sorts, nice. If you run with a lot of stability, you can also secure the Dunk on that 1 target.
Kudos for the reply, even though it was a hassle to get it out of you (or anyone else).
That wasn’t so hard was it? Cheers.
I think my problem is you kept saying you were providing constructive feedback, but all you were doing from my perspective is detailing how we are worse than another class. You weren’t explicitly saying how to fix something or what a player should do differently to fill that gap.
detailing the weakness is already a step closer to the fix.
While true, think of it from a real world perspective.
If someone is building a chair wrong, you don’t walk up to them and say ‘your chair sucks’. You point out where it’s wrong and how to fix it.
Likewise if you go to a mechanic and your tire pressure light is on, they don’t come out and say ‘your tire is broken’. They inform you it has a puncture and ways to remedy it.
The point of constructive feedback is to provide actual feedback. Throwing in your 2c’s just to get it in there AND not helping to fix the issue is the problem at hand in these forums.
Otherwise we would be flooded with spam X is OP Y sucks and ‘Z is such bullkitten’.
AKA the SPVP forum.
Thing is, “Your chair sucks" is not detailing the weaknesses. by detailing, it’s more like “Your chair’s legs are bad.”
“Your chair’s color combination is bad.”
“Your chair is not comfortable to sit on.” so designers can rethink of the specific areas.
Although balancing a game is more complicated then your look-simple example, that simply listing the flaws doesn’t help you entirely to come up with a fix, but it does lead you closer to it.
Nice copy paste from the previous thread.
I had to copy paste it because you spent every ounce of your available energy to completely dismiss it as “moaning” without providing any logical reason.
dat delicious single minded passive-aggressiveness.
Ontopic; I can now see how you might provide a specific purpose with said build in a team-composition that builds arounds it to great effect. It’s like the GS/Mace build but with more focus on opening up pesky necros like a can-opener of sorts, nice. If you run with a lot of stability, you can also secure the Dunk on that 1 target.
Kudos for the reply, even though it was a hassle to get it out of you (or anyone else).
That wasn’t so hard was it? Cheers.
I think my problem is you kept saying you were providing constructive feedback, but all you were doing from my perspective is detailing how we are worse than another class. You weren’t explicitly saying how to fix something or what a player should do differently to fill that gap.
detailing the weakness is already a step closer to the fix.
IDK why I keep coming up in these conversations.
maybe you should tell that fanboy jae of yours to self control abit on his fanboygasm.
whats the point?
depends on body type, some have larger shoulder some have smaller pants and stuff.
Anet is trying to keep up with other mmo so hard, now other then nerfing warrior, we should also take its “weapon master”title away! yes! good idea!
actually dual wielding related skills as a warrior
time to use them twilight bunker guard to hide them dps asuras
will go in to more details in 1 year, you just got anet`ed.
wazzzzzzzzaaa anet
@all the “warrior still guuuuud post U dont need longbuw lol”
A tanky warrior that runs around and stuns 1 person every 8~10 seconds while doing low-to-medium 1-1-1 spam damage to single targets.What happens when the opponent team ignores your meddling slow 17% crit mace and simply kills everyone else ?
Maybe I’m wrong, but it looks like you’re dedicating all your time to be a walking 1 man “road bump”.
An annoying little mosquito for a single Necro/Mesmer. While that very same Necro or Mesmer is molesting your team internally.
Even if the stars align, and you COMPLETELY shut out that necro/mesmer from kitten your team, all you did was turning the fight to a 2v2 or 3v3. Terms are still equal, your team didn’t gain anything. You’re still chasing after a necro while your team does the real fighting and capturing.You can build an elementalist in exactly the same way (soldier amulet, dagger+X, spread traits, defensive utilities) and gain more anti condition, more team play, more boons, more hard CC’s, sustain, combo fields, finishers, more AoE etc. While still having the durr 1-1-1 spam.
What do you provide that any other class doesn’t? Beside a high boon-less HP pool?
This is for the guys that did build without longbow.
How do I downvote a post?
yesterdary was too late so i tried the build today, exactly what i felt, a littel mosquito of the necro. that`s all. a small tanky one targeted cc er mixed with combat nurse.
I don’t feel weak at all.
Try my build out and see if you have any success with it. I have Necros cussing me out all the time.
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sFBCx;0VKkP0d4cLVQ0;9;59T9J;13;018A0;027-4RF2S;1CoF2CoF26BW
can you please record your awesome gameplay with this awesome build of yours, so i can be enlighten by your awesomeness
Man negativity just because I try to offer some help. I have nothing to prove, simply trying to help someone frustrated on their Warrior.
no, im seriously curious about how this build work and stuff, i tried it for a few matches but could not understand the build. i would try any thing to have a warrior build that is on bar with every other classes
watch defektive’s stream. We have viable builds out there and you’re just not aware of them.
seriously, how much did he pay you.
Wait, eles’ burst can be mitigated with certainty?
Melee shatters off mirror images can be mitigated?
Melee range whirlwind hitting 4 times can be mitigated with certainty?Okay.
yes,yes all of them should be nerfed, all of them are bad designs, warrior = only good designed class, anet.
I don’t feel weak at all.
Try my build out and see if you have any success with it. I have Necros cussing me out all the time.
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sFBCx;0VKkP0d4cLVQ0;9;59T9J;13;018A0;027-4RF2S;1CoF2CoF26BW
can you please record your awesome gameplay with this awesome build of yours, so i can be enlighten by your awesomeness
All you have to do is use your shield stance or whatever 2s after thief stealths. You will out last his stealth and he will be visible.
then they go stealth right after they are visible for hitting block or doing nothing and then they burst again, cool story
…gotta love when you hit someone with flurry and immo them, but they still dodge rolled away and stay immoed from far and you miss all your hit.
sword 3 need bigger range with better animation effect and sound, because not to mention how many times i missed it when an enemy just walking left and right in my face, i saw a dude F1’ed someone and the hits did land and the enemy was just standing there, but when he used 3..nop, missed.
(edited by Lighter.5631)
Still keeping fingers crossed for “stop hiding coward!” shout that does aoe reveal for 10s on any stealthed target.
“Show yourself!” seems more appropriate. If Anet added this and made warriors the answer to camps-a-lot perma stealth thieves then I would be so happy. Finally warriors would have a purpose beyond Zerg CC in WvW.
Or a rework of On My Mark, making targeted foe unable to enter stealth for a period of time? -.-
just an idea that came in mind, they should just remove banners and give us war dogs, same passive but maybe alittel bit less, and with banner number 2 as active. and have auto attacks. and depend on which war dog you have, the auto attacks effect are different, some auto attack do higher damage, some do less damage but give different conditions.
A war dog could be a cool new ult. A short cd ult similar to maybe the necro flesh golem.
The overcharge could be a big leap that crashes down and launches all enemies or knocks them down.
then that would be too close to flesh golem or even have the elite banner’s revive effect would be too close to rangers elite. so i was thinking maybe replace elite banner with a elite shout which knock down up to 8 enemies in range for 1 sec and gain fury swiftness haste for 20 second with 120 second cool down.
warrior will just get a warrior-ish updates.
constant protection, regen and aegis will never be warrior’s.
soo its better to not expect for any sustain at all.. cause you will be dissapointed.
well replacing banners with npc such as war dogs is definitely warriorish and gives sustainability , because you would have separated knock down, heal, and inflict conditions
(edited by Lighter.5631)
Still keeping fingers crossed for “stop hiding coward!” shout that does aoe reveal for 10s on any stealthed target.
“Show yourself!” seems more appropriate. If Anet added this and made warriors the answer to camps-a-lot perma stealth thieves then I would be so happy. Finally warriors would have a purpose beyond Zerg CC in WvW.
Or a rework of On My Mark, making targeted foe unable to enter stealth for a period of time? -.-
just an idea that came in mind, they should just remove banners and give us war dogs, same passive but maybe alittel bit less, and with banner number 2 as active. and have auto attacks. and depend on which war dog you have, the auto attacks effect are different, some auto attack do higher damage, some do less damage but give different conditions.
(edited by Lighter.5631)
hahaha, wvw? you joking right?
hammer pve? go guardian
Sorry, but duels help nothing for the actual team play matches
all those duels you see are 1v1 op classes with specific 1v1 build is which close to useless in a team based match.
and what burr said is right. for example, thieves in duels,they call it 1 duel, but they just port away or stealth whenever they are in disadvantage, and come back in when they recovered, that`s basically multiple duels which they start with an advantage over you. i still remember thieves ported too far away and made both of us OOC right away.
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