Guild Wars 2

Permanent unlocks are always better. But I see your point, temporary visual effects for karma. Maybe even “personality” stuff like “charm”, “ferocity”, “dignity” buffs/effects.

I have always been more of a fan of some vanity skins, minis and stuff which are not required but are nice to get if you have some extra millions of karma to spend, though.

Since this item was a teaser of “future items”, I would say there’s a very high chance that those wings are a backpack skin which will replace the default glider skin in Heart of Thorns.

Deni.7345:

Lol, am I missing something? Why is everyone hating on wings?

A certain portion of people who liked the more or less realistic medieval style of GW2 doesn’t like the wings. A certain portion of people who doesn’t like overused items also doesn’t like the wings.

At the same time, a certain portion of people who wanted more fantasy stuff in their fantasy game (but did not want to play “Korean grinders” for a lot of reasons) love the wings and want more of this stuff.

According to the insane spike of gem-to-gold exchange rate on the day of the sales, the portion of players who love those wings is considerably, considerably larger.

My guess is that Tribal armour will be acquirable through the unique tribe vendors which you unlock at higher mastery tiers in Heart of Thorns. Makes perfect sense IMO.

Stalwart might have something to do with, say, Stronghold or Guild Halls.

pdavis.8031:

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

Lishtenbird.2814:

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

its the pricing that is the main issue preventing it without a cap price it to low and old players can get it immediately price it to high and its a good level for old players but a ridiculous amount for new ones

I still fail to understand how it is a bad thing. If you spent tons of time in the game already, you go and get retroactively rewarded (unless there’s a minor time/content gate) and become happier since you don’t have to regrind the same old stuff. If you haven’t, the problem doesn’t exist for you in the first place.

if the game was just players from launch i would agree with you but it isn’t and ANET can’t just punish new players with unreasonable time frames that come with the cost of old players having the amount of whatever currency after playing for 2.5 years

Yeah I agree that making the price too high to cater to veterens with stacks of currency. It would cause newer players to feel that it was a grind to be able to get said items. (which than leads to threads about how grindy this game is, how Anet lied when they said there would be no grind, how unfair it all is, etc. etc. etc.) Although I did suggest it, it was AN option, and not the only one. But certainly pricing would be considered (as it is with any vendor item they introduce), but perhaps not the sole reason why new stuff isn’t being released.

My post simply stated that setting the price at a reasonable for beginners amount but letting the veterans get the rewards retroactively is completely fine. How could it’ve been screwed into “punish new players with unreasonable time frames”?

Basic reward for basic cost → achievable for beginners, easy for veterans. Prestigious reward for prestigious cost → end-game goal for beginners, achievable for veterans. Combine at proper proportions, make everyone happy. We already have cultural armour, Zenith → Pinnacle weapons and Hellfire/Vambrace skins working like that, and that’s fine.

Azhure.1857:

or on my Elementalist…. because you know… they don’t have a good elite anymore.

How come? Fiery Speed Shoes and Bear Elemental are quite useful in certain scenarios!

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

its the pricing that is the main issue preventing it without a cap price it to low and old players can get it immediately price it to high and its a good level for old players but a ridiculous amount for new ones

I still fail to understand how it is a bad thing. If you spent tons of time in the game already, you go and get retroactively rewarded (unless there’s a minor time/content gate) and become happier since you don’t have to regrind the same old stuff. If you haven’t, the problem doesn’t exist for you in the first place.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Why add them? If they added every item-based “currency” to the wallet, it’d be more bloated than the fattest person in the world (wasnt it something like 1102 lbs or so?) before long. That’s why they never did that, and likely never will. Dungeons are the only exception because those are persistent content, and why things like festival tokens were NOT added, even if the same temporary content repeats year after year.

How can you be sure? →

Lishtenbird.2814:

That is a completely different problem, which is (I am almost fully confident about it) has to do with the amount of UI/database coders vs. content designers. They simply need to rework the wallet to accept all past and new currencies, shifting old ones to the bottom, and the problem is fixed. But the game used to have a limited set of currencies in the database at wallet launch, and everything else was handled via trophy items in inventory; at some point, the content paradigm shifted, and we see more and more tokens (with a relevant problem of needing “many” tokens to drop as otherwise it doesn’t feel rewarding) – however, the system was not designed to handle them, and we’re stuck with hoarding them in the bank as a temporary solution (with vendor access to bank as a band-aid solution).

And how many (untradeable) currencies do we actually have? Like, 10 or something?

• Geode
• Bandit Keys
• Gauntlet Tickets
• Pristine Fractal Relic
• WvW Tournament Claim Ticket
• Black Lion Claim Ticket
• Black Lion Claim Ticket Scrap
• Bauble
• Bauble Bubble

And discontinued ones can be handled separately just like the Retired achievements.

• Captain’s Council Commendation
• Winter’s Weapon Claim Ticket
• Fused Weapon Claim Ticket
• Sclerite Weapon Claim Ticket
• Dragon’s Jade Claim Ticket
• Fortune Scrap.png Fortune Scrap
• Golden Fortune Scrap
• Race Track Voucher

Malchior.5042:

Got further information? Maybe a screenshot?

Quite a lot of info in the Dungeon subforum: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Undocumented-changes-March-16-2015

maddoctor.2738:

A cap is way to prevent that, if you have any other (better) solutions we can discuss them. However useless currencies ARE a problem, you can’t say it’s normal to have all those things accumulating without any way to use them.

There’s nothing to solve about anything else besides karma. It is normal. In other games, content gets devoured between expansions and gets deserted. In this game, people can play it infinitely and whine about having too much of a currency. Really?

Lishtenbird.2814:

And this is completely normal in a casual B2P game where you get well worth of content for the money you paid, and if you have extra, that’s your problem for spending too much time playing and going beyond the system’s intended content-reward balance.

It is content which has to be various. If you tie all to gold, you have what we had before: grind Cursed Shore all day all week all month, buy legendary. Once you farmed all the gold, you get all the shinies. If you introduce currencies, you encourage playing different content. Once you farmed that specific currency, you get all the zone-specific shinies. The cap does exactly nothing than forcing people to spend tokens today, while new tokens already solve this problem.

And if people have played SW for 100 hours for Luminescent, and then 100 hours because they liked the content but were forced to spend tokens, and then they introduce Ultralescent which requires another 100 hours… guess what happens? And that is why we do not have a cap now and have new currencies instead. People have already been annoyed enough at new sudden items for geodes and left extracted Mordrem parts because they didn’t like having to “regrind” the same stuff again – you can already see why those ideas are bad.

Zania.8461:

At the moment the system is designed to behave as follows: Each ‘currency’ (be it event reward or actual wallet currency) has a limited number of useful things to buy. After that, the currency becomes useless with exception of a single, somewhat meaningless conversion into some sort of resource. Thus each new currency introduced goes through the same stages – mad hoarding to get the rewards, dumping the rest into the conversion, forgetting that the area ever existed as no more rewards can be gained (converting bandit crests to bags is fairly inefficient, only reason why it’s done is because people have an excess of crests due to how much of a loot pinata SW is).

So… why is it bad again? See above.

Zania.8461:

I don’t see why people are egging on the OP. He brings up a valid concern. Currently GW2 has far too many currencies, and the currencies keep piling up. OP attempts to address the lack of reuse of old currencies. If you disagree with his proposal, by all means explain why and (if possible) provide an alternative solution. Simply saying that his idea sucks is not constructive.

The only “unused” currency I see at the moment is karma. Everything else is okay – laurels have great value, dungeon tokens have great value, and even then, unless you’ve been grinding dungeons daily for more than a year, you wouldn’t have unlocked all skins for the collections.

Solution to karma? 1) There are several already – skins, linen, Orrian boxes. 2) New legendaries are coming. 3) You never know what’s coming and if you need it again after HoT. 4) They can always design a single set of armour and weapons to sell for karma similar to AP rewards and sell it at prohibitive cost as a prestige item. It isn’t that long, but it provides a nice end-game use for karma for that like, how many, 10%? of players who’re not casuals and still sit on tons of karma.

maddoctor.2738:

Why do you think they don’t use dungeon tokens for new items anymore?

Maybe because this is a buy-to-play game, and dungeons are that part of content which has limited replayability by design?

Crests, geodes and other currencies are completely the same. This content has limited replayability (or rather, rewardability) per player by design, and once you reach a certain amount of tokens, you’re out of unique rewards and left with generic low-profit conversion options. And this is completely normal in a casual B2P game where you get well worth of content for the money you paid, and if you have extra, that’s your problem for spending too much time playing and going beyond the system’s intended content-reward balance.

phys.7689:

then again 5 stacks of bandit crests is just as annoying.

That is a completely different problem, which is (I am almost fully confident about it) has to do with the amount of UI/database coders vs. content designers. They simply need to rework the wallet to accept all past and new currencies, shifting old ones to the bottom, and the problem is fixed. But the game used to have a limited set of currencies in the database at wallet launch, and everything else was handled via trophy items in inventory; at some point, the content paradigm shifted, and we see more and more tokens (with a relevant problem of needing “many” tokens to drop as otherwise it doesn’t feel rewarding) – however, the system was not designed to handle them, and we’re stuck with hoarding them in the bank as a temporary solution (with vendor access to bank as a band-aid solution).

So, the token system is totally fine – specific rewards for specific content solves the problem of “generic” currencies really well; it’s just the wallet that, well… sucks.

maddoctor.2738:

You can already forge your karma into linen, turn tokens into ectos etc I don’t see your point. Why do it all at once, and not as you get it? No sane reason? How about keeping the old currencies important and adding new items to buy with them instead of adding new currencies all the time?

Because today I don’t feel like doing it, and tomorrow I don’t? Because it is a frigging game to enjoy and not a daily inventory management simulator (oh wait…) or something to feel bad about simply because I don’t feel like doing it today and not tomorrow? We already have enough stupid daily limits and daily chores and enough of bank/bag space issues which turn this game into Click Wars. No need for more.

maddoctor.2738:

Imagine that. Players can already destroy the market if they choose to convert all those currencies into something else, yet they don’t for some reason. All hoardable currencies do is increase the prices of everything. If Bandit Crests were capped at 1000 or 2000 then there would be little reason to price Carapace armor pieces at 1000. So yeah, hoardable currencies make everything cost more, and force people to grind more for whatever they want, while also making those currencies useless once someone gets what they want.

You know why they don’t do it? Because
a) it’s boring to do it,
b) they don’t need to convert it at the moment,
c) they’re waiting for something to happen to use all of it (remember the laurel to UnId Dye conversion) since at that moment it will be worth the effort,
d) they expect something which will require these items in the future.
This is

maddoctor.2738:

If someone is sooo indecisive then they will have bigger problems

That’s plain silly and you know it.

If I want to play AC today, I want to play AC today and not sit on my new character and buy armour for it, or sit and choose between two skins in a rush because I’ll miss on tokens.
If I want to play EoTM, I want to go play EoTM and not convert karma to linen.
If I want to play SW, I want to go play SW and not decide which of the tonics or skins to choose at the moment. And so on.

The only things that your suggestion adds are frustration from lost rewards, excessive time sinks and stress on managing capped currencies, inflexible markets, and inability to freely play the content you want with your friends when you have limited time (like 90% of players do). And all this in a game you paid for to enjoy in your free time.

maddoctor.2738:

Aidan Savage.2078:

No. Just no. I dont want a cap on my karma, dungeon tokens, fractal relics, or anything else in my wallet.

Why? You want to have thousands of dungeon tokens and millions of karma just staying there being useless? You want to hoard your currencies for no reason at all, and the developers never ever release anything new for those?

Yes, I want to hoard them. If I want to hoard 5 million karma and then craft 5 new or old legendaries in a row or take a week to forge it all into linen, there’s no sane reason not to allow me to. If I want to hoard dungeon tokens and turn them into ectos, insignias, collection unlocks or new character armour, there’s also no sane reason not to allow me to.

There’s also a very important part about hoardable currencies from the economical point of view: it reduces market elasticity. As stated by John Smith, the system has been designed to resist influxes of players and other changes in supply, and having hoardable currencies is one of the things which brings the scales back to the equilibrium if one of the sides shifts for whatever reason.

But you know what is the worst part of your suggestion? Chores:

- Hey, wanna go for AC?
- No sorry, my tokens are capped.
- Use them?
- I haven’t decided what to use them for. Well, if you give me half an hour…
- No way! party disbands

maddoctor.2738:

When was the last time you saw anything requiring karma introduced in the game? Or dungeon tokens? Or Fractal relics? or any other old currency?

There have been rumours of that thing called… expansion, I think? And… new legendaries. And… new tribe NPC traders unlocked at different mastery tiers. And… new tiers of fractals and fractal masteries.

How can you say that it is broken when you don’t know what it is going to be used for in the future?

“I am too inefficient at earning and spending and don’t want to improve, so let’s make EVERYONE ELSE equally inefficient!”

Where do people even get those ideas from?

Second this.

No distracting flashing in peripheral sight is the basics of ergonomics. And that gap does exactly this: flashes with random stuff like high-contrast terrain, random characters and so on.

Most likely it’s just the “Enable Camera Shake” which got reset to “on” with this patch, while you had it off way long ago. I know that I am getting way too distracted with it constantly on.

Getting really dizzy with the new camera (posted about it here). Tweaked the settings – no, same stuff…

I have a feeling that the point in space around which the camera rotates is somewhere behind the character now; might it be the case, or it’s just the FoV? If not, are the “reset to defaults” values identical to the old camera?

Irrelevant to useful feedback: Apart from that – walked around DR and the Grove with first person camera – so much gorgeous stuff I couldn’t see before! If only we could get a high-res texture pack now…

You can also add the Name You Want to friends from the Contacts panel. -ah, already mentioned up there in the brackets

Still, as a cosplay altoholic, I’ve thought of this feature before and second the request.

Serbianwolf.1652:

Please, think about this seriously!!!!

They did. That’s why it’s a cool looking skin-skill which is only useful for low-level newbies and does not make those people who paid for the Deluxe edition more efficient than others.

The green Downed colour in party UI is very unintuitive. Why, oh why change something that wasn’t broken? Maybe green is the “danger”, “death” color in Tyria, but for normal people, bloody red is the one color that screams “danger!”.

Zietlogik.6208:

• First Person problems: aegis, longbows, items which show over characters head

Elementalist attunement stones as well, at least the fire one.

Zietlogik.6208:

• FPS drops

Yes, especially at higher FoV.

Zietlogik.6208:

• Minimap has a gap (which causes points to go over the screen)

Those gaps on the minimap and the chat panel are annoying like hell. A low line of randomly coloured flashy stuff on lower right and left – very distracting. Please stick it back as it was!

No matter how I change FoV and alignment sliders, I still get dizzy to the stomach. Tried playing a set of fractals, but will now probably log off since I can’t enjoy it like that.

That never happened with the previous camera. I feel like it might have something to do with the point in space that the camera uses to rotate around; as if it’s been shifted a bit behind the character.

I like the flexibility of the new camera, but this part makes it, well, barely playable. Any ideas?

Since wings were “a one-day peak of future items”, I believe they are simply a backpack skin which replaces the glider skin, but since they were ready anyway and looked so faren cool and could’ve given a pile of fast money, ANet decided to put them on sale earlier.

jportell.2197:

What should change to make it in the meta?

The sPvP tier used when balancing the whole class.

Currently it is the lowest common denominator: newbies who panic when they see a mesmer, cannot tell a clone apart from the real one, die, and then come to rage and QQ on the official forum.

Should be? Top tier. At top tier, all mesmer tricks are very well known, and the slightest mistake in your actions will be exploited, and you will be rendered useless. At this level of class mastery, you will simply be of more value on other classes – and that’s what we have.

Lishtenbird.2814:

L2R:

1. While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.

22. While participating in Plaver-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other people’s game experience by not actively participating in matches in good faith, a.k.a leeching.

For some reason OP ignores the two non-ambiguous quotes from the very first link he offered as an argument.

L2R:

1. While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.

22. While participating in Plaver-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other people’s game experience by not actively participating in matches in good faith, a.k.a leeching.

Confirmed not happening.

• They said it.
• They don’t even have resources to fix the bugs and the Mac client.
• We have enough clueless useless players already, getting people with controllers is not really what I anticipate in the game with “challenging group content” promised.

Devildoc.6721:

Also, underwater combat needs love.

Confirmed not happening in the nearest future.

Will definitely happen if/when we finally get to fight Steve Bubbles.

Posted something along these lines about a month ago – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Worried-Specializations-vs-Expansionless/

Dasenthal.6520:

I agree with Celtic Lady, the rewards you get for just showing up are awesome. (Even if you don’t use the tomes, the luck, or the BL goods)

I will also point out that your actions are deemed “worthless” by you, based on the absence of a number that has no value. No one who plays this game on a regular basis with other ‘skilled’ players can really make the assumption that the more dailies you’ve done the better you are as a player.

People who do dailies (including myself) do them either for the real rewards (tomes, xp scrolls, wvw xp, etc… ) or for “imaginary” rewards because they think one of these days AP will matter. (Including leaderboard people)… Otherwise what you are deeming “worthless” are worth more to the average player than 10AP

I personally do not really care about how other people relate me to my AP, all I want from those APs is primarily the unique skins (the Pinnacle ones for my mesmer – a veeery far goal – and some Hellfire for ele), secondary the milestone chest stuff which I find quite pleasing, and lastly for the feeling of completionism. If those APs were not tied to any rewards and were used for a leaderboard pixel measuring only, I wouldn’t have actually bothered.

NeoCodex.2438:

I’m more concerned about where does one find these “daily fast aether” and “daily fast frac 40” guilds? Because every guild I join, the guild chat is always full of “I’m level 35 now, does somebody want to do AC?” and I’ve been pugging dungeons and fractals ever since, avoiding any guild runs because 80% of the time those were the worst. Because there is no such thing as “meta” or even “might stacking” is unheard of, because you don’t have to, because it’s a “guild run”. And I’ve switched over a dozen guilds in the last few months, and it’s always the same.Also any decent pug players I find in pugs, they always respond that their guild is either small or limited to German/whatever language only.

I really think these daily fast aether guilds don’t exist, or at least not on the EU servers, because I don’t find any.

Getting in a good guild is kinda random. I happened to find one which was formed around getting Gold reward during Crown Pavillion, then people decided to stick around, and here we are. I sent you a PM in case you’re interested.

Sariel V.7024:

Your Worthless actions contribute towards the following categories:
General: Dry Top
General: Silverwastes
General: Fractals of the Mists
General: Twilight Arbor Aetherpath
General: Tequatl
General: Explorer
General: Slayer
General: Fashion
Collections: Ambrite
Collections: Ascended Accoutrement

Each mode of play you CHOSE to pursue has its own rewards. You opted to pursue things that do not reward AP at a stellar rate, but they do reward AP. It could readily be argued that the rewards you did obtain are worth a lot more towards improving your play experience than 10 AP will do for you. If AP means that much to you, divert an hour of your ‘worthwhile’ time to get the AP you believe is worthwhile, and quit kittening.

Jeez, that makes a whole lot of a difference, since daily fractals, daily zone events, harvesting, map completion totally doesn’t count towards general achievements! OH WAIT…

Place a significantly higher bid/lower offer. Here, I fixed it!

According to rumours about Chinese patch notes, falling damage and some shadowstep fails might get fixed with the next patch. Progress, hooray for progress!

fireflyry.7023:

I’ve hated the change to the daily system since it was patched in. It’s one of the worst changes to the game since release imo.

I could do what-ever when-ever I wanted to before. Just play in whatever format be it in PvE, WvW, PvP for a few hours and ding. Daily done. I didn’t even think about it.

There was the odd exception when I would see that I was 3-4/5 and had to shortly log out hence I had to go out of my way to do something I wasn’t really too keen on in order to get my 5/5 but that was maybe 5-10 minutes at the end of my session so no real biggy.

Overall it was a symbiotic reward for just playing regularly and was totally non-intrusive to playing the game on a “daily basis” which I really enjoyed. I loved the fact I would just be rocking around and all of a sudden “daily dodger” or some-such would be awarded to me. It worked in perfect symbiosis with player freedom and regardless of how you played or what you were doing it rewarded all players equally merely for taking part in the game and community.

Awesome.

This new system is a dictated work simulator. Period.

Exactly how I feel. “Symbiotic”, “natural” were the good words to describe the previous dailies. “Chores”, “work” are the words to describe the current system.

Halvorn.9831:

As I already stated, I get it. I just don’t see it the same way. I am more annoyed by the imbalance between the dailies of the different game modes that exists right now.

OK, maybe the more important question in the context of this thread is: what do you expect shall be rewarded in the form of a daily? And why should it be rewarded?

As I see it, dailies are there to have a method of constantly gaining a few AP each day, available to players of all types and capabilities. Do you want additional, on-top, dailies for harder content? Because those that are there won’t go away, as they are doable by more or less everybody and there’s only 4 of them each day for PvE. If you replace some of them with harder content you create an uproar that is faaaaaar greater than this thread.

So lets assume that the solution is to have hard-mode dailies, a second category of dailies parallel to the normal ones. How are you going to balance that between the 3 game modes?

• From the dailies I want the same stuff I got earlier in the game; since physical rewards have been moved to log-ins, it’s basically the AP left. That means that same as earlier, I want to steadily get AP as a result of my daily meaningful playtime – which always was the point of dailies and monthlies. You get in the game – do something meaningful – get your reward for the day for “being an active member of the game”. That’s what dailies were about for 2 years, and I liked it – just as many other people out there.
• That also means that if I do meaningful stuff but do not get rewarded, and instead have to do stuff which has a lot less meaning for me, then I am not happy as a player.
• I am okay with not getting special snowflake stuff for harder content – though I would indeed like it if there was any. Like, an extra 1 AP for daily Aetherpath, Fractals 41-50 or Arah or successful guild activity, with or without loot. That can be extra to the “Daily completionist” stuff and be entirely optional – not overly rewarding to “force” people, not stuck in their face and screen for the whole day, but nice enough to feel rewarded for.
• As for balancing “hard” daily achievements across game modes – how about just don’t? There are several reasons.
  • WvW and PvP are minor submodes, whatever their hardcore fans say. And if there’s no such thing as a group TS raid for Triple Trouble in WvW – then simply don’t invent it; still, even that infamous JP or something can still be included.
  • Setting specific goals in WvW and PvP is detrimental and bad design. If you put “kill the lord” on Legacy, people rush lord regardless of what is optimal. If you put “win as a ranger”, you get a bunch of rangers on every team and that’s a faceplalm game.

Taku.6352:

Lishtenbird.2814:

dietzero.3514:

I noticed 2 days ago that the daily fractal 1-10 gave the reward after the 3rd fractal, not the boss fractal. Perhaps they broke something.

I bet it was like that (3rd fractal) before, and the chest at the 4th (boss) fractal today is actually the bug.

That bug only happens on the Aetherblade Retreat fractal because it counts as the same instance as Mai Trin boss fractal. I’m 97.3% certain you both had AR as the third fractal on those dailies.

Now that’s neat. Yes, both times I noticed that it was the 3rd fractal, it was indeed the Aetherblade Retreat one.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

No matter how they broach it, someone if going to be unhappy. What we have currently is a fine middle ground. While the dailies do require some effort, they aren’t insanely hard to complete. Does it potentially require some people to go out of their way to complete them? Yes. However, does it limit the majority from achieving them if they choose to? No.

Sorry, but NO. The “buff” to achievement variety after the 1st daily revamp was “the middle ground” – it made a lot of people happy and generated “thank you” threads. What did the new “middle ground” generate? 60 page and 3000 posts of various raging – see above.

velmeister.4187:

You stated The new dailies “benefiting the community” is both relative and far-fetched. but, you did not provide a single evidence to refute my statement rather presented further evidence how guild specific or individual specific events are not helping the community as a whole.

Exactly as I said – it’s relative and far-fetched. Your counter-arguments sound moot and pointless to me – starting from all zones, including starting, never ever being empty after Megaservers and people actually complaining about overpopulation and zerging world bosses, and finishing with those 100+ happy pugs which our 20-30 guildies who spawn Teq taxi in once defence is set up.

Halvorn.9831:

Olvendred.3027:

The OP, and the first explanatory post by Lishtenbird, clearly state that this thread is about the unfairness of difficult and challenging tasks being less rewarded in AP than boring, pointless dailies. Substituting a different set of even-more-generic dailies for the current ones does not go any way towards solving the stated problem.

Yeah, I get that. But I put it into yet another light: is it not even more unfair that for PvP and WvW dailies ARE exactly what you do anyways while in PvE it is something which is off the track and pointless?

You guys are so dead set on misreading what I wrote and understanding this in a skewed but convenient for arguing way… Okay, I’ll elaborate again.

The point of this thread is to demonstrate how utterly ridiculous it is that the stuff that most players consider “grindy”, “challenging”, “inaccessible” gets no daily reward, while the most boring and pointless tasks are being rewarded. The “grindy”, “challenging”, “inaccessible” stuff should NOT be excluded from the daily rewards currently handed out for easy tasks; instead, it should either (at least) grant the same rewards, or (preferably) grant the rewards faster/with less restrictions for harder tasks.

Was that clear enough?

pdavis.8031:

Its funny. Before the change to the current PvE daily system, the chief complaint was that getting the dailies was too easy, didn’t feel challenging enough, and if you didn’t do them, you missed out on laurals. (which was a major reason why people did them.)
Now that they have changed to be completely optional (Laurals being granted as part of the daily log on bonus) and requiring a bit more focus, people are complaining that they are too focused, too grindy, and not fair.

Anet listened to us the first time, and changed the system to fit what we wanted. Now you get the daily rewards just for logging in. If you want a few extra AP, then make the effort, and go do them. Achievements are supposed to be for those who want a specific task, more focus, and a bit of a challenge. Something to work towards, yet at the same tme remain optional and not required. This current daily system embodies that idea of achievements perfectly. If you want them, go get them. If you don’t, than thats fine. Sure you’ll have to go out of your way, but thats the whole point.

You speak of it as if “players” is a single entity which has exactly 1 subentity. As if there aren’t players who like A and dislike B, and players who like B and dislike A. Now for the perspective:

Lishtenbird.2814:

These threads from the past are worth noting:

• Only 10 Daily Achivements? – an 8-page thread from 7 months ago where players are annoyed since they’re forced to do specific PvE dailies because of lack of choices. Result: increase in choices.
• Please make dailies feel more natural – a thread about making dailies feel enjoyable instead of forced.
• Daily Orrian killer – adding a daily with unnatural requirements caused a lot of distress, and it was still only a subset from a large pool.

There’s been a bit of people who wanted B (hard specific dailies) and a whole bunch of people who bought the game with A (getting “daily” for playing in a day, “monthly” for playing in a month and so on). At some point, ANet went for a bit of B, and players raged. They stepped back and added more A – people were happy and grateful and thanked on the forums. Now someone up there said “We don’t care how much you enjoy the game, we care about METRICS!” and went full mode B. Unsurprisingly, people are still raging – in a 60 page, 3000 replies thread.

Belzebu.3912:

Anyway, I think that ANet’s purpose with this new daily system is try to “force” the players to get out of their routines and make them go to different places and do different things, even if their routine involve something very similar to what the daily is asking.

I understand why they do it. I simply do not accept it as a fair, honest solution. A lot of solutions to make half-empty zones (duh… and those are never empty with megaservers now!) interesting have been suggested – Nicholas descendant’s daily tasks, open-world bounty bosses, hidden treasures, growing dyes etc. etc. But ANet took the fastest approach – and the one which hurts a significant amount of players, primarily non-competitive PvE-only players with limited playtime (=casual), newbies (by making them compete with high-level zergs) and veterans (by forcing them to grind the same stuff they’ve done thousands of times already).

Olvendred.3027:

Lishtenbird.2814:

The point of this thread is to demonstrate how utterly ridiculous it is that the stuff that most players consider “grindy”, “challenging”, “unaccessible” gets no reward, while the most boring and pointless tasks are being rewarded.

Meh.

If you have any actual suggestions, feel free to state them at some point. Otherwise, whiny thread is whiny.

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Lishtenbird.2814:

I suggested something like that long ago:

Lishtenbird.2814:

• Daily Nice View
  • View a vista in {map},
  • complete a jumping puzzle in {region},
  • or kill 50 monsters across the world.

• Daily Resource Manager
  • Gather 4 {resource type} in {map},
  • gather 15 resources across the world,
  • or salvage 50 items.

• Daily Heroic Deeds
  • Complete 4 events in {map},
  • complete 10 events across the world,
  • or complete a dungeon in explorable mode.

• Daily Proficient Fighter
  • Apply 20 conditions to enemies,
  • cleanse 20 conditions from yourself,
  • or dodge 20 attacks.

• Daily Mad Quaggan’s Pick
  • Kill a specific world boss / complete a specific tier of Fractals.

At the moment I think that something like that could please everyone: those who need a daily goal and play just a bit, those who play a lot but prefer specific content, those who hunt for APs, and those who level their 1st characters.

It can also go like this:

• Do 4 events in [Map],
• do 2 world bosses,
• do a world megaboss,
• or do a dungeon/fractal.

Dasenthal.6520:

Zenith.7301:

Draknar.5748:

So basically you don’t think it’s fair that people can get 10AP per day by doing easy tasks, even though you have the same exact access to those easy tasks.

I get your point, but come on, we’re talking about 10AP that you, as a clearly capable player, can complete in 7-10min…

I do the things you’ve listed and take the extra 10min for easy AP…

You needn’t think beyond it being easy AP for everyone.

Then they are CHORES. The whole concept behind an MMO is CHOICE. PvE dailies don’t reward your choices of play, unlike the pvp dailies.

My friend, you are mistaken (specifically bolded). MMO has never meant choice, in fact for a lot of people it implies grind.

That’s why I never played MMOs until GW2 – and started playing GW2 since it was so different a year+ ago. But apparently MMOs just can’t live without funneling players into chore activities… or rather, are not willing to.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

I get my daily 10 AP on a regular basis and I never even pay attention to the daily achievement list. So go figure.

Easy: PvP/WvW player and not your problem. PvP/WvW subforums are that way ——>

Schneider.8615:

You do all those hard things but can’t handle some easy tasks despite wanting the AP? First world problem right here.

“Being able to handle easy tasks” =/= “Wasting time on boring non-challenging chores which you’ve already done a thousand times”.

tigirius.9014:

Apparently now there’s a cry that dailies aren’t hard enough.I mean really, that’s what I got out of the OP’s post.

can we stop with the requests to make everything harder until they actually fix all the grinding to begin with please? That’s all I ask.

Apparently you cannot imagine that rewarding for easy tasks as well as larger tasks and not exclusively for easy tasks only is an option.

Zenith.7301:

Context. That statement was given in the context of an spvp centered event. Of course they’re gonna talk spvp to people in tournaments and demos.

A reply along the lines of “HoT specialisations for mesmer are primarily aimed at improving PvE experience” could’ve been made even at an sPvP event – if it actually was the case.

dietzero.3514:

I noticed 2 days ago that the daily fractal 1-10 gave the reward after the 3rd fractal, not the boss fractal. Perhaps they broke something.

I bet it was like that (3rd fractal) before, and the chest at the 4th (boss) fractal today is actually the bug.

JustTrogdor.7892:

you are getting a not-so-high five from the other 4 shorter asura characters

FTFY

That’s quite an often requested feature for ascended armour, though. Something to “forge”, “infuse” or “upgrade” for a partial cost of a new item to get limited amount of switcheable stats. (And for runes and sigils as well).

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

CM isn’t Arah. I’m not talking about doing the bare minimum and running through and afking for 30 minutes while the rest of the party attempts the skip and fails repeatedly, I’m talking about helping them through it so I can avoid exactly that. Mesmer can solo clear all the turrets before Ooze they don’t wipe the bads, then portal everyone from the WP to Entities, then from the WP to Shoggroth if necessary. Then you can easily solo Stargazer, not to mention they make Lupi go much faster with pugs and generally have lots of options to escape being domed or shadowstepped by pugs trying to range Lupi.

I think that your perspective of “gods for pug dungeons” is kinda skewed.

“Soloing stuff (and giving away for free to party members)” =/= “Improving overall team performance to meet the encounter requirements”. For first, yes indeed mesmer is a good option; for second, there are way better options.

Zenith.7301:

Mesmer is literally one of the worst classes to make easy runs with on a bad group, everyone likes to run ahead of you and with your limited access to speed boosts without using outside objects, it’s very easy to get put in combat run speed with a short, kittenty curtain swiftness.

I know the feel. In my early days, I had to slot in Mass Invisibility for skips in TA instead of Time Warp. People were not happy about it. What could I reply? “You rush and never help, I kinda die otherwise.”

Galen Grey.4709:

Then I am afraid your thread has one fatal flaw….
Finished leveling 12th character to 80 (2nd mesmer) … 12th Level 80 character
Equipped the 2nd mesmer in full Assassin Full Gear
Crafted ascended sword for the 2nd mesmer Ascended Sword
Did tier 6 Dry Top and bought 2 weapon recipes 2 weapon recipes
Crafted 2 more weapons for the Ambrite weapon collection, for the total of 12/16 weapons unlocked 2 Ambrite weapons
Fractal 50 fast run with guildies whatever Dropped + fun with guildies
Fractal 40 fast run with guildies whatever Dropped + fun with guildies
Full set of Guild Missions (and an extra Bounty for those who missed the first one) whatever dropped + some gold
Helped a guildie do Vexa’s Lab JP for his Mawdrey whatever dropped + 1 happy guildie

none of the stuff you did on saturday was worthless and you got plenty of rewards for doing it. Rewards that I am sure make a lot of people envious for they could only dream of earning that much in a single day.

I also get wood for chopping wood, XP and loot for doing events… and so on. Basic rewards and extra rewards. No flaws here, pure logic.

Galen Grey.4709:

You probably got more AP doing that anyway

Aetherpath, guild missions, top-level fractals… how many again? Like, zero?

velmeister.4187:

@OP – Your actions are not worthless but, mostly catering to you and maybe to certain extent your guildies. The Daily achievements, on the other hand, are designed to cater to you and the community as a whole. So, let’s analyze:

Your worthless actions:

|* Finished leveling 12th character to 80 (2nd mesmer)
|* Equipped the 2nd mesmer in full Assassin’s by opening some Raider’s ascended |chests and crafting the rest of armour and runes
|* Crafted ascended sword for the 2nd mesmer
|* Did tier 6 Dry Top and bought 2 weapon recipes
|* Crafted 2 more weapons for the Ambrite weapon collection, for the total of 12/16 |weapons unlocked

Catering to you and your guildies:
__________________________
|* Fractal 50 fast run with guildies
|* Fractal 40 fast run with guildies
|* Full set of Guild Missions (and an extra Bounty for those who missed the first one)
|* Helped a guildie do Vexa’s Lab JP for his Mawdrey

The new dailies “benefiting the community” is both relative and far-fetched.

For one, there’re tons of people who dislike the new dailies. For two, why is

• New character = bought character slot, bought Faren’s rapier, sinked materials and skill points. New character = new possibilities for players in the whole world to play with a more useful, tailored mesmer. Better gear = more enjoyable runs for people around me.
• Me and other players playing more challenging content which has less available players is very beneficial for the community. “No one doing Aether”, guilds just for finding people to do higher fractals, long queues for players with high MMR… Why do you think that level 1-10 daily is more important than 41-50? I think it’s exactly the opposite, and my experience says I’m right.
• Guild Tequatl spawn = possibility to get a Tequatl kill off-time for all those numerous people who have work and real life and can never get to Teq at the times set by ANet. Fun fact: we actually started spawning Teq because way too many people couldn’t join us after the DST changes.
• Guild missions = access to unique rewards and unique content. ’nuff said.

There is some thought process that goes into designing a game. Some of which may not be readily apparent to every member of the community but, the thought process is there. So, let’s reserve our censure about things that we do not understand immediately.

There is indeed “some thought process” that goes into designing a game. And it kinda involves making your veteran players happy enough to play, buy items from gemstore regularly, and invite new players to the game.

And not making a pretty candy wrap, charging buy-once fee and then never caring about how many people actually play what they paid for. Why? Because the amount of new players is finite, and at the end of the day, it’s veterans who keep the game alive.

Belzebu.3912:

Lishtenbird.2814:

In a world that makes sense, if a mother promises a candy to a child who washes the dishes, but the child washes the dishes, does the laundry and cleans the whole house so that it shines, the child still gets the candy. In ANet’s world, he doesn’t.

Actually your 1st post the scenario would be more like:
Mother promises a candy to a child who washes dishes, then the child go and do the laundry and clean the bathroom and in the end the child expect the candy, guess what? the dishes are still dirty.

Yes, fractals 1-10 are completely different dishes from 41-50, and Queensdale wood is so much different from Caledon wood.

Zietlogik.6208:

What is this thread about exactly?

Nothing in your daily routine is the same as mine, does that mean the game should cater purely to you?

The point of this thread is to demonstrate how utterly ridiculous it is that the stuff that most players consider “grindy”, “challenging”, “unaccessible” gets no reward, while the most boring and pointless tasks are being rewarded.

Sarie.1630:

The dailies are meant to be accessible, no?

If you were a brand new player how sucky would it be if your dailies were:

-Craft a piece of ascended armour
-Complete a run of Fractals L50
-Remove 10 stacks of Tequatl’s Hardened Scales
-Kryta Forager

Completely unreasonable. If you want to do the higher level stuff, just do it because you enjoy it and accept that you might need to spend 3 mins doing dailies you wouldn’t ordinarily want to do if you want to maintain the daily +10AP.

I’m not a new player, but I’m fairly casual now, sitting pretty with my 24,500AP and I sure as hell wouldn’t want a daily to do the things on your “worthless” lists.

I’m also pretty sure that if they completely tailored dailies to players then you’d be just as quick to start another thread stating that you don’t want to craft a piece of ascended armour, or complete a set of guild missions, just for “the daily”.

In a world that makes sense, if a mother promises a candy to a child who washes the dishes, but the child washes the dishes, does the laundry and cleans the whole house so that it shines, the child still gets the candy. In ANet’s world, he doesn’t.

I suggested something like that long ago:

Lishtenbird.2814:

• Daily Nice View
  • View a vista in {map},
  • complete a jumping puzzle in {region},
  • or kill 50 monsters across the world.

• Daily Resource Manager
  • Gather 4 {resource type} in {map},
  • gather 15 resources across the world,
  • or salvage 50 items.

• Daily Heroic Deeds
  • Complete 4 events in {map},
  • complete 10 events across the world,
  • or complete a dungeon in explorable mode.

• Daily Proficient Fighter
  • Apply 20 conditions to enemies,
  • cleanse 20 conditions from yourself,
  • or dodge 20 attacks.

• Daily Mad Quaggan’s Pick
  • Kill a specific world boss / complete a specific tier of Fractals.

At the moment I think that something like that could please everyone: those who need a daily goal and play just a bit, those who play a lot but prefer specific content, those who hunt for APs, and those who level their 1st characters.

It can also go like this:

• Do 4 events in [Map],
• do 2 world bosses,
• do a world megaboss,
• or do a dungeon/fractal.

Traced.3495:

I didn’t read everything but here’s one thing: I consider a “settings jungle” to be a bad thing.

Whichever program/game/app I install, the first thing I do is go and check all the settings. It’s a one time thing and a great time saver for many different people who will have different settings, but most likely for a very long time.

Warcry.1596:

Blade Shards are used in the Mystic Forge, so unless they were to implement a way to pull stuff out of the Wallet, those wouldn’t work in there.

Being used in MF has nothing to do with being depositable.

Saturday

Daily worthless actions:

• Finished leveling 12th character to 80 (2nd mesmer)
• Equipped the 2nd mesmer in full Assassin’s by opening some Raider’s ascended chests and crafting the rest of armour and runes
• Crafted ascended sword for the 2nd mesmer
• Did tier 6 Dry Top and bought 2 weapon recipes
• Crafted 2 more weapons for the Ambrite weapon collection, for the total of 12/16 weapons unlocked
• Fractal 50 fast run with guildies
• Fractal 40 fast run with guildies
• Full set of Guild Missions (and an extra Bounty for those who missed the first one)
• Helped a guildie do Vexa’s Lab JP for his Mawdrey

Daily ACHIEVEMENTS:

• Daily Kryta Lumberer
• Daily Activity Participation
• Daily Dredgehaunt Cliffs Event Completer
• Daily Fire Elemental

Daily completionist: 0/3. AP earned: 0.

Sunday

Daily worthless actions:

• Crafted ascended focus for the 2nd mesmer
• Aetherpath fast run with guildies
• Fractal 50 fast run with guildies
• Organised triggered Tequatl guild spawn

Daily ACHIEVEMENTS:

• Daily Kryta Miner
• Daily Ascalon Vista Viewer
• Daily Frostgorge Sound Event Completer
• Daily Scale 1-10 Fractal

Daily completionist: 0/3. AP earned: 0.

Sounds fair, amirite?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Mesmers are gods for pug dungeons and ranging world bosses

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Mesmer is my #1 pick

Here, you said it yourself – it’s your pick and not a “god for pug dungeons”. Mesmer is as much god as a bearbow ranger. If anything, it’s either guardian which can outheal awful clueless zerker wannabes, or an ele which can buff the party and output the damage required for the party not to wipe before the 2 obvious dodges run out.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Dude.. I know its fun to look for reasons to rage but.. This is good news.

Combined with the defiance change, all we’ve seen are things looking up for Mesmer.

For PvP and the comparatively small, but vocal community of this subforum? Yes.

For PvE? No, since we all know that mesmers will be overnerfed (because ANET-MESMERS-OP-QQ-PLS-NERF) to the extent of being overshadowed by other classes in PvE all over again.

Your Reasons for Not Taking Portal?

Not being able to slot in utilities into Elite skill slot.

storm.9471:

Toggle off NPE option. Please!

It’s not that simple. There are good parts (rewards), there are bad parts (locking down basic functionality for too long), there are parts good for complete MMO newbies but bad for everyone who knows what a standalone non-Facebook game is and simply facedesk for characters with several level 80s, there are parts which are good per se but delivered in an offensively stupid and confusing way…

PAX East Dev Talk:

Mesmer specialization should shake up the sPvP landscape the most.

Reliable illusionless direct damage? Trading utilities and versatility for DpS? AoE attacks for increasing amounts of zerging mobs in new PvE content? Reliable speed for enjoyable exploration?

No thanks, no need to “fill missing class roles with specialisations” for mesmers. More control, more lockdowns, more conditions and more of everything which makes next to no sense in PvE, to which bosses are immune 95% of time, and which is easily replaced by one might-prestacking rotation and a heavy AoE attack.

Some may say that it’s to soon to judge based on some random data from reddit… but I would totally not be surprised when mesmers get the same good-on-paper, frustrating-in-reality PvP-focused approach… and then left to be only useful in annoying newbies who can’t tell a mesmer apart from a clone.