Guild Wars 2

Bubi, I’m tired of you not following what we write. I will stop here since I assume that you either won’t even after thorough explanations, or simply don’t want to.

Azhure.1857:

Too true, Blaeys. Unfortunately it still falls short with a lot of people because they desire instant gratification. Whether its an in game goal or something else — there are usually a few predictable reactions along the way.

- Those that enjoy the journey.
- Those that dislike what they’re doing but want to meet that goal so badly that they trudge along.
- Those that rage and/or quit.

I’m afraid that will always be a constant.

There are also

• Those that enjoy a fast comfortable travel and then a thorough, unrestricted, your-own-pace exploration, both solo and with friends.

That was what GW2 was initially about. Yes, climbing a hill or looking for the best bistro did take time, but that was fun and took place after the long tedious journey which wasn’t fun.

maddoctor.2738:

And this is exactly what people were asking for, more meaningful character progression, and Anet delivered. The difference between Gear and Skill grind is that Gear would be used in older content too, Masteries cannot be used in older content at all so it’s a superior system.

Please define “people”. “People” have also asked for dueling, open world PvP, mounts, player housing, marriage, flying, DPS meter, gearcheck and whatever they’d seen in other different MMOs which I’m somewhy not playing. I for one ignored the progression discussions since I simply want more content, and next to no progression.

maddoctor.2738:

So you want to farm something to death, in order to get your Mastery, instead of doing specific content? Like how people were farming CoF P1 for hours each day in order to get the gold to get what they wanted instead of doing anything else in the game? Masteries can be a very good way in “forcing” players to not choose the most optimal (gold-wise) path. Either farm your mindless farms or do something different to get them. win-win for me.

Between farming what I like to death and doing specific things I don’t like, yes, I choose farming. Just like all those people who have begged for the Mists Stone to be sold for something else than relics, WvW not being in the map completion list, RNG rewards not being account bound, and so on.

maddoctor.2738:

• Make initial progression easily attainable, make further progression barely noticeable and worth it only for completionists.

So, after a sort while we will be like: “LF Gliding mastery 10+” posts where people without the “max” mastery will be ignored anyway?

It’s the complete opposite. If, say, Gliding 5 is enough for most players and is acquired naturally in an evening of play, you won’t get those LFG. If Gliding 10 is required or 95% players will fail and they have to grind for it for a month and most likely a little portion of players will get, than… surprise!

maddoctor.2738:

Let’s see, if you’ve played a game like Assassin’s Creed or Tomb Raider, there are places you can’t reach at first because you lack a specific item or skill. Later on, you get those and you can progress in ways you couldn’t before. From what I read, Masteries work that way too and I find no problem with it. The only question is how “grindy” they are going to be.

I’ve dropped most linear solo games recently. “Progression” is not exciting for me, I’m not a kid. That’s why I went for GW2, which is incidentally also an MMO.

Erick Alastor.3917:

Excluding ascended gears + fractals (almost a failure system considering how many lfg for fractals you can find compared to dungeons),

That’s a misconception. High-level fractals are more often played with premades because they require a higher skill level, and you can’t be sure with pugs. That’s why we usually go like this:

1. check friends,
2. check guild chat,
3. check people from contact list and fractal guilds,
4. consider whether you should post an LFG or cancel the run for now.

VodCom.6924:

Lishtenbird.2814:

• The already existing zones (“core GW2”) will have their own masteries. To get HoT masteries, you’ll have to grind HoT.
• You will only get masteries retroactively for the already existing zones, not HoT. Everyone will grind HoT, no exceptions.

Do you have a source on this one ? The way you talk about it, you make it sound like a glorified trait aquisition system like the one we already have.

I don’t think masteries will be implemented this way. I’d rather think it will look like the WvW ranks points but in PvE. You earn points by doing PvE tasks (like jumping puzles or map completion) that reward MP and you spend these points in whatever category you prefer, just like in WvW.

Ofc this is pure speculation from me so I’ll say wait and see.

From the blog:

Each Mastery track is tied to a region of Tyria—they must be unlocked with Mastery points gained in that region and can only be trained in that region. With the launch of Heart of Thorns, there will be two Mastery regions: the Heart of Maguuma, encompassing all PvE zones that are part of the Heart of Thorns expansion, and the core Guild Wars 2 world, encompassing all PvE zones currently available in the game today. Since Mastery tracks can only be trained in their respective regions, the Mastery training bar will automatically change the Mastery track slotted when you change regions, reverting to the last Mastery track you had selected for that region. Some Mastery points will come from content that existing players may have already completed, and these Mastery points will be automatically awarded to you with the release of Heart of Thorns, allowing you to get started on your Mastery journey right away.

Vayne.8563:

Hot isn’t going to change that drastically before it’s released. That kind of change would set the game back months if not years. It’s never going to happen. Anet is talking about it and showing it. If this is how it pans out, then your words at this point won’t change it.

But my Eye of the North example STILL applies. You couldn’t do the Deldrimor story until you did the other 3. It was gated at max level.

Even the Living Story within each chapter right now is gated.

This might very well be a type of progression that’s linear, rather than what you’re implying it is. That is to say it’s easy to get the stuff you need to do it, but you have to make choices about where you want to go first.

Getting people up in arms when it’s not out yet, and when it’s not going to change anyway at this late date, I repeat, pointless.

What you’re really saying here, if it’s this then it’s bad. Maybe. But we won’t know until we see it, and when we see it it’s too late.

Yes, we will see. If PS is gating PS, that’s fine and makes sense: it’s linear. Don’t want it? Ignore till a year after, grab that vista instead and unlock a mastery point. But if it’s PS that gates masteries that gate open-world content which my friends play, that’s not the GW2 I got attracted to. So the question is in the balance they put in it.

Bubi.7942:

You said you are a PvE player, and don’t like WvW, right? I wonder, what do you do in PvE? I mean, the game has been out for 2 and a half years, is there any cnew content left for you to do that’s not repetative? Is there any content you do that’s not granting you XP (I can think of 2 activities as such, one being chatting in LA, the other flipping the TP)?

Lately I participate in the guild Teq spawn and run a lvl 50/49 fractal with guildies since I find it the most fun. If I have time, I run another tier of fractals. What I want to also run if I do have more time is CoE and SE for skins and collections. Unfortunately, I just learned that I need 2000 more crests than I expected for the luminescent title, so it’s ~4000 left now, and I’m stuck doing SW daily instead of the stuff I like. When the char slots go on sale, I’ll grab a couple more and make a couple more alts for cosplay/dress-up which I enjoy, and will level them and grind for skins.

Bubi.7942:

Just wondering what can you do that does not progress your masteries, which btw are still not out, and you know nothing about progression. Yes, it is possible that the new area is gonna be a 2 square meter place with 1 mob that you have to kill over and over. But let’s face it, that’s unlikely, like winning the lottery.

Feel free to ride your phobia train though, if that’s what floats your boat.

Btw, can you recommend a better solution to – anything you do gets you points?

However… you’re missing the point and confusing “leveling masteries” and “unlocking masteries” which require the “mastery points”.

• Firstly, I have to do specific content in HoT to unlock the masteries.
• Then, I have to grind the levels in the masteries in HoT, since they’re locking me from other content in HoT. That means that I can’t play the content I want until I grind enough, regardless of whether I find it fun or not.
• While what we had now in GW2 didn’t gate any content, except for PS which gated PS and fractals which gate higher tiers of fractals.

Bubi.7942:

Btw, can you recommend a better solution to – anything you do gets you points?

• Let us choose masteries without “unlocking” them at all, just like PvP reward tracks.
• Do not gate content itself behind mastery levels. Instead, gate optional content hardness, like in Fractals.
• Make initial progression easily attainable, make further progression barely noticeable and worth it only for completionists.

I haven’t had that particular fish in mind, but I did think it was inspired by a fish.

Still, an image is worth a thousand breach runs

VodCom.6924:

Also a few détails that you might have missed :

• Only characters that own HoT can progress in masteries
• Mastery point CAN be earned in already existing zones. So you will NOT be forced to grind in the first zones of the heart of maguuma.
• MP will be added retroactively to veteran players who have already completed certain tasks that will give MP.

• The already existing zones (“core GW2”) will have their own masteries. To get HoT masteries, you’ll have to grind HoT.
• You will only get masteries retroactively for the already existing zones, not HoT. Everyone will grind HoT, no exceptions.

Vayne.8563:

Ever hear of the knife of phaedrus. You make it sound so cut and dried, but it’s really not.

I’d like to see you take a party of 20th level guys into Arah and beat it. I don’t think you can. I’m not even sure it’s possible.

At any rate, you can’t even attempt the 70th level personal story without having to get to the level 60th personal story. It’s linear.

Now we don’t know that this stuff is gated in the sense you’re suggesting. It simply could be unlocked in linear fashion. That is you have to do certain things before other things.

In Guild Wars Eye of the North, you could do the Ebon Vanguard, Asura or Norn path in any order you liked…but the Deldrimor path was always the last one. That content was gated by having to finish the other content first.

Until you see what is going on, this sort of thing is meaningless.

“Once I leveled to 80,” that is. However I could level by doing (almost) anything in the game – be it crafting, exploring, gathering, or killing. I didn’t have to go and do PS chapter 7 to move from lvl 70 to 71 – for which in turn I also had to do chapters 1-6. Fun fact: I finished my personal story almost 1 year after I started playing the game, simply because I found it boring… and no content was restricted from me during all that time (I even killed Zhaitan!), the only content PS was gating was PS itself.

There is a point. The point is in raising awareness before it’s too late and everything is set in stone. Because I really want to enjoy HoT the same as I enjoy GW2, and I don’t want to sigh and ignore the expansion because it becomes the same “grind or stay behind” as all the other MMOs out there that I refuse to buy, and mastery points which replace my level become the new Gear Score.

More options is always nice.

Bubi.7942:

Altair.8402:

Can you link me to the part that says obtaining masteries will be grindy?

Also, if there’s no long term goal for players, what’s gonna keep people playing?

You don’t get it!

What if I have to play the new content and earn mastery points by doing basicly ANYTHING that gives me XP? Doing anything is super Grindy! Give me mastery points in log-in rewards!

Jump on the Grind-Worry-Train! (what?)

You can earn mastery levels by doing basically anything that gives XP… on those 10 square meters which are not locked behind new mastery levels!

You can earn mastery levels by doing basically anything that gives me XP… once you’ve grinded that adventure for a month, succeeded and unlocked the mastery which gates the rest of content!

But I just remembered you, Bubi. You’re the one who taught mesmers the mesmer basics in that LS thread, told Miku to L2P, and then linked his own video.

Seriously, we need to be able to assign tags/groups/notes to forum users so that we know what kind of reasoning we’re dealing with once we meet on the forum again. It will save time in so many arguments.

nGumball.1283:

I don’t believe there could be an MMO without grind and there haven’t been so far.

nGumball.1283:

No offense but you should leave MMORPGs and play single player games instead because there haven’t been a single MMORPG that wasn’t grindy and there probably never be.

Fun fact: there was! It was called Guild Wars 2.

I could level to 80 and experience all content in the game, including Arah and all the Fractals from lvl 1 to 9, which featured all the existing fractal maps.

Will I be able to in HoT? No.

Why? Probably because “casuals” didn’t stay long enough to pay enough money to let the game stay as is. I’m afraid some people cannot cope with getting instant freedom and setting the goals themselves – they need to be restricted, constrained and gated, and only then they will stay and fight for freedom they could’ve enjoyed straight away. That’s a weird psychological phenomenon, but it’s here.

So, here we go:

When this ability is unlocked, your character’s experience bar will change to become a Mastery training bar while in PvE zones. This bar will track your progress on training the Mastery track you currently have selected, showing both the abilities you are training toward and those already earned from the track. To see all your Mastery tracks, spend Mastery points, and change which Mastery you are currently training, click the Mastery training bar to bring up the Mastery tray. Because the Mastery training bar completely replaces the experience bar, players who’ve reached level 80 will no longer gain levels but will instead train Masteries.

TL;DR: to level Masteries, you play in the new zone.

Now the important part is… How grindy and annoying these levels are? Is it like SW and DT collections, or more like a couple of PvE levels? How much can you actually play what you want now, instead of grinding the allowed content until you’re so bored to death that the new gated content is no longer intriguing?

To train a specific Mastery track, you must first unlock it by spending Mastery points. Mastery points are awarded for completing various pieces of game content. Things like completing a chapter in your personal story, completing certain achievements, reaching hard-to-find locations, overcoming challenging encounters, excelling at adventures found within the Heart of Maguuma, or earning 100% completion for a map will award Mastery points.

TL;DR: to unlock Masteries, you do what we currently do in the LS: grind obligatory achievement tasks until you succeed.

Now the important part is… How grindy and annoying these tasks are? Can you get them naturally, like climbing up a mountain to a vista in the current maps, or they’re similar to the revamped Traits and LS achievements?

AegisRunestone.8672:

Unless that’s game-breaking,

It is game breaking. You’re supposed to enter water and get attacked by the creatures inside, even if you’re on the surface level. It won’t happen if you’re outside of the water, and programming an imitation of a player being inside would not be worth the output (pretty look).

One of the rare encounters in PvE where condi cleanse and stability is useful.

Fear is fine, it promotes group support and smart play. The fact that Jormag is a giant HP bag like most world bosses, though…

I think there’s some joke about talking blenders. Like, if all the management in the world got replaced by those, no one would ever actually notice.

People nowadays are so used to their conveyor-belt type daily routine that anything that is one inch to the side of it confuses and overwhelms. Partly it’s because narrow specialisation is a thing, but more because it’s too easy to survive and cheat vs. natural selection.

Brace yourself, OP. Unless there’s a new war, it will only get worse. And as long as it’s getting worse, there always will be one.

The time gate is there for economic reasons too.

As stated by devs (and common sense), high-level crafters should be able to make money out of it – in this case, by providing their service of daily crafting on TP. That’s important since almost everything else drops in excessive amounts and can be bought cheaper than the materials you’d need to craft it.

Nope, sorry, but YOU’RE WRONG is not an argument

Ascended is a long term goal with a less than 5% stat increase. You can complete all content (apart from lvl 50 FoTM), in exotics – heck, even rares, or even do naked Teq and Wurm runs.

Invest time or money or deal with it. Sincerely, a person who’s lazily gearing his 4th character in full ascended by playing in evenings after work and haven’t bought gems for a year.

In game is faster and should work. If you can’t explain it in the game form or need supporters/more testing/more attached info, go to the forum.

Olvendred.3027:

The difference? Gear grind requires replacement. You grind out the gear you need, then the level cap changes/new gear tiers are added, and your gear becomes obsolete. You have to grind for gear again. Once new BiS gear is there, your old BiS gear is no longer BiS… so you just throw it away.

This might or might not be relevant in GW2 where you can salvage, buy and sell stuff. GW2 is different from other games in many aspects.

Olvendred.3027:

Adding skills, traits or masteries, at least in GW2, is just that. Adding. You never have to replace anything. All your skills remain just as relevant, and keep the same functionality, as long as you keep playing the game.

You never know until you see them. For one, specialisations will replace some of your mechanics.

Olvendred.3027:

Do I have to explain ‘optional’ to you again? Achievements are just that, and the LS ones are among the least grindy. Not an example of skills, grind, or anything even remotely relevant to your topic.

That was an example of the direction the game is heading, especially since they’re referencing DT and SW stuff as the most similar existing models.

As for validity of “optional” in a game where cosmetics are the endgame, see many other posts throughout the forum.

I am very rarely DCed, and I’m not even in Europe. If I do, that’s usually after new patches when they’re fixing stuff and something can glitch, or when gaming servers are massively DDoSed.

So I would say that’s on your side – ISP, or one of the nodes in between. Hiccups on the route do happen every now and then. As a countermeasure, join parties during world bosses and taxi back in on your party members.

That said, Tech Support is a better place for this question: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/support

AdaephonDelat.3890:

If you’d made this post tomorrow after they’d released the blog post about the mastery system then it would have been a different matter.

I don’t think I’m acting too early. When people read the mastery post tomorrow, I’d prefer them to ask “That’s good, but can I log in, play a bit and unlock it, or do I farm weeks like a zombie just to jump on a mushroom?” instead of “OMG MUSHROOM JUMPING, TAKE MY MONEY!!!” and “OMG HANG GLIDERS, PREORDER NOW!!!” Since that’s usually how marketing fluff works on most players.

Even if we don’t know the details today, it shouldn’t stop us from thinking about how we would like to see the changes and how we won’t. Probably it’s even better to think about it before they announce their version, since after it you’ll be funneled into discussing that one option only – which might not be the best one for players.

AdaephonDelat.3890:

The saying means you’re acting too late. I’m pointing out that you’re acting far too early.

I meant your version of it, but whatever.

AdaephonDelat.3890:

We also have a saying in my country shutting the door after the horse has bolted. You sir are trying to shut the door before you’ve even purchased the farm.

I’ve experienced the results of poor misinformed decisions in RL far too often to act upon such sayings. Big old corporations are slow and rigid and suffer from stuff like this, and when they do announce stuff, they’ve already decided everything behind closed doors based on what they’d seen. And then the consumers which say “Okay, I’ll eat it anyway…” make it worse.

We’ve also experienced more than enough dubious changes in the game because of ANet’s “never talk about anything until we release it” policy, which has led to megathreads and uproars. The game is changing. When you’re concerned, why wait? When you see a problem, tell about it, or you’ll have to deal with consequences and waste time on something which could’ve been avoided.

Silalus.8760:

But it’s not my fault that’s what they did. Yours does exactly what they advertised when you decided to buy it, and so does mine. Removing my feature would mean they aren’t giving me what I bought, without actually doing anything to help you. (Except to allow you to bask in the glow of my unhappiness, of course, which I admit is a balm to any MMO player.)

I think that nerfing it back to the level of other tools and letting everyone either a) get a refund in gems or b) replace for any other mining tool was the best way of action. Obviously, they aren’t doing it now since they’re flooded with returning and new players at the moment, and HoT is near, but… But removing the frustration of having to buy the watchwork pick which earns money instead of other tools which look cool, and restoring faith of many customers, is globally more important, IMO, than making a handful of buyers unhappy.

Zaxares.5419:

I do agree that the Watchwork Pick is an anomaly and I’m frankly surprised ANet let it stay. However, rather than nerfing it I’d prefer to see the other unlimited tools get buffed so they also have special drops.

People have discussed that option, but it doesn’t feel right. Paying for convenience and cosmetics is fine, paying money now to earn gold in the future is borderline P2W.

rhapsody.3615:

I have mismatched tools: bone pick, dreamcleaver logging axe, and Jack in the box scythe, simply because that’s what was available when I wanted permanent tools.

Based on what we see, they “fixed” it and tools might be here to stay (finally!)

rhapsody.3615:

I know the bone pick is supposed to go with the harvesting minions, but I’m not crazy about the minions and wish they had done some sort of black and purple theme instead.

Agreed, the oil theme is better than minions IMO (minimalistic → less chances to become stale) and should’ve made it into a separate set.

AdaephonDelat.3890:

The information we currently have is -

Masteries are account wide.
Traits are changing.

We have way more information, as stated in the OP. The PAX presentation is not the only source of official information – various interview articles have appeared in gaming websites, and we had a blog post yesterday.

AdaephonDelat.3890:

So you want to reduce the grind from obtaining the masteries. Brilliant! Love it! Fully on board with that idea. By the way how do you obtain mastery points again? And how do you spend Mastery points again?

Since ANet has stated that things are not set in stone and they’re willing to make changes based on player feedback, I want to raise the problem now, preemptively, to make sure no more “misunderstandings” like the Trait revamp make it into the game and stay for year(s) until they reinvent the wheel once again.

Bubi.7942:

“For me” being the key words here. You can imagine, not many people enjoy 20 alts dress up party thing, but would like to play for something meaningful to them.

The “casualness” of the game has led to a pretty massive decline… maybe it is time for a change after all.

You do not have the statistics which says who is the majority. Might very well be that once the casuals which “led to a decline” see how grindy HoT is, they go away and HoT fails because there’s not enough of hardcore players to compensate – since all those are already in WoW and other trinity and gear progression games.

GW2 is not hardcore enough for hardcore, and becoming not casual enough for people who log in on Sunday, see that they have to grind just to get a hang glider they wanted to enjoy, and uninstall.

AdaephonDelat.3890:

Yes but with regards to that last point they released the information then the community reacted. You’re just randomly guessing about information that’s not released yet! Wait for the information then you can go crazy about how it all sucks or whatever.

In my country, there’s an anecdote about new recent laws:

Guys, stop panicking! It’s just a project, not a law, calm down!
Guys, stop panicking! That’s just the first review, it’s not final yet, calm down!
Guys, calm down, the law is already here and working. If you were going to panic, you should’ve done it earlier!

Bubi.7942:

If you don’t have long-term goals you can advancce towards to, no one will play your game. for long.

• Full ascended for 5-6 alts is a good long-term goal for me.
• Having 20 pretty dress-up alts instead of 10 is a good long-term goal for me.
• Fractals 50 was a good long-term goal for me.
• Dungeon collections and fractals collection are a good long-term goal for me.

All/most of this stuff doesn’t affect how and which content I play. On the other hand:

• Luminescent is borderline since the specific content grind, both LS and SW, is over the top for me.
• All traits for all alts are an awful goal for me.
• Grinding all WvW skills is a bad goal for me – luckily, I do not like WvW.

Once you say that your game is casual and make skins the endgame and attract people that enjoy it that way, switching to gating content behind grind is a bad idea.

AdaephonDelat.3890:

Why not wait for some actual information to be released before jumping on the “end of the world so much grind!” train?

Because:

• Everything that’s being done recently and referenced as a model in HoT reveals is based on (relatively to GW2, not other games) heavy grind.
• ANet is known to misinterpret and overdeliver. Examples: Traits, NPE.
• Action should be taken before stuff which stays for years gets introduced. Examples: Commander tags, 300g for each color.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Purple Miku.7032:

This entire game is RNG.

True. But it is not an even playing field.

It is. The problem is, “it is” once everyone plays for 1000 years; but for a couple thousand hours, there will be outliers.

What we know by now:

• HoT will have no level cap increase and no new armour tier, with the reasoning of keeping old content alive.
• HoT will be bringing Masteries to both new maps and old ones (including Fractals).
• You won’t be able to complete certain challenges until you get specific Masteries.
• The new maps will be focusing on smaller areas with deeper, more replayable content, instead of larger but emptier regions.

So how is “gear grind” actually different from the “skill grind” we will be getting?

Gear & Level Grind

• You are not able to complete certain challenges until you get the new levels and the new armour.
• In GW2, you can level by doing (almost) anything you like, when you like, how you like.
• In GW2, you can earn gold for craftable/buyable gear by doing (almost) anything you like, when you like, how you like.
• In GW2, you can still come back and do low-level content thanks to automatic downscaling (which could [or could not] use some tweaking, but that’s another topic).

Skill Grind

• You are not able to complete certain challenges until you get the new skills (“Masteries”).
• In GW2, to unlock character traits, you have to do an enormous list of random tasks, or pay a hefty sum of gold and skillpoints. You have to grind the same tasks over and over again for each character. Until you acquire traits, you cannot start actually playing what you want and instead do what you’re told.
• In GW2, to unlock LS achievements and then get them and the exclusive rewards tied to them, you have to grind specific content over and over again until you succeed. You cannot buy it with gold or other currencies (the official way at least, from the game, not LFG sellers). You are out of luck if you are not there to group up with the people who know what to do in the first days.
• Traits and achievements feel like a “must do” list of chores which nag you until you finish them.

So will the new “revolutionary” progression system be actually better? I’m not sure.

Instead, I’m afraid that with the two camps of “no level cap/gear grind!” and “more character progression!” players we had, we’ve drawn ourselves into a trap which could be worse than the new Trait system and NPE combined.

Disclaimer: I’m not advocating for gear grind or level cap increase; I’m just voicing concern that with the current policy of making people grind more and more for everything, gear grind and level cap might have actually been a more user-friendly solution.

UPDATE:

Lishtenbird.2814:

So, here we go:

When this ability is unlocked, your character’s experience bar will change to become a Mastery training bar while in PvE zones. This bar will track your progress on training the Mastery track you currently have selected, showing both the abilities you are training toward and those already earned from the track. To see all your Mastery tracks, spend Mastery points, and change which Mastery you are currently training, click the Mastery training bar to bring up the Mastery tray. Because the Mastery training bar completely replaces the experience bar, players who’ve reached level 80 will no longer gain levels but will instead train Masteries.

TL;DR: to level Masteries, you play in the new zone.

Now the important part is… How grindy and annoying these levels are? Is it like SW and DT collections, or more like a couple of PvE levels? How much can you actually play what you want now, instead of grinding the allowed content until you’re so bored to death that the new gated content is no longer intriguing?

To train a specific Mastery track, you must first unlock it by spending Mastery points. Mastery points are awarded for completing various pieces of game content. Things like completing a chapter in your personal story, completing certain achievements, reaching hard-to-find locations, overcoming challenging encounters, excelling at adventures found within the Heart of Maguuma, or earning 100% completion for a map will award Mastery points.

TL;DR: to unlock Masteries, you do what we currently do in the LS: grind obligatory achievement tasks until you succeed.

Now the important part is… How grindy and annoying these tasks are? Can you get them naturally, like climbing up a mountain to a vista in the current maps, or they’re similar to the revamped Traits and LS achievements?

Do you all guys posting about expensive GPU and cheaper CPU know that this outdated game’s engine is far too often bottlenecked by CPU?

Goose.8195:

Right click -> block player

Come back to me when I can Right click -> erase memory. Meanwhile, NO.

GW2 is a comfort zone. If I want competition, I open the door and step back into real life business.

Vayne summed it up nicely in the other 100500th “dueling” thread:

Vayne.8563:

I tend not to enjoy hanging out with the people who like dueling.

This game provides features I like and because of that, I like many of the people who play the game. The community in WoW sucked really hard. It’s not all that hard to guess that part of the reason is that the way WOW is set up encourages more toxic behavior.

That’s why I don’t want it. The more you encourage competitive, testosterone filled in your face behavior, the more people I have no interest in hanging out with will still crowding around. I’ve seen it in more than one MMO. I don’t want to see it here.

Obviously I won’t like everyone, but the more features like that on offer, the more people I like will walk away from the game and the more people I’m not interested in will start playing the game.

It would be interesting to see, for example, by age breakdown, a list of players who like/want dueling.

But having played games with dueling and having not liked the results of what I’ve seen, that’s why I’m against it.

Might it be different in Guild Wars 2. Sure it might. But I don’t distribute brass knuckles down at the bar and hope for the best either.

Dango Cacer.8596:

So maybe it’s been suggested before,

Hundreds of times:

Fortus.6175:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Build-templates-1
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Add-a-GW1-Template-System-in-GW2/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Template-for-people-that-are-about-to-make-a-thread-here/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Template-auto-load-depending-on-map/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Suggestion-Trait-Resets-Savable-Builds/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Saving-builds-1/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-UE4-template-for-community-PvP-maps
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Build-and-gear-template-saving-idea
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Template-code-system-from-GW1-coming-back
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Give-us-Template-builds
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Build-Template-System-Incoming
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/Guild-Emblem-Template-Issue
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Save-Load-Build-Templates

Will probably come along with specialisations in HoT, based on what we know.

Kartel.2561:

But this is not even that. It’s limited purely to one place, purely team based, and it’s registered matches. It’s basically a blend of spvp and the Queen’s Gauntlet. Queue up with the NPC in charge to smash face. Except unlike the gauntlet, it’s team based. And unlike spvp, it has a public audience (and potentially a gambling feature).

From Uber Duelwarrr Pwnr: u cheese pu mesmer!!!11
From Uber Duelwarrr Pwnr: go duel or ur nub
From Uber Duelwarrr Pwnr: y u no duel me
From Uber Duelwarrr Pwnr: port 2 la nub
From Uber Duelwarrr Pwnr: port 2 la nub and q or ure as bad as ur momma
From Uber Duelwarrr Pwnr: y u no q in la nub scared u chiken huh???77
Thank you for submitting your report!

It doesn’t matter to what and how open-world PvP is restricted. Once it exists at all, there are problems.

TamTiTam.9574:

I would love open world Duels because it would kill the boredom of waiting for Events, you would always habe something fun to do – a reason that is not mentioned in above summary.

->

Lishtenbird.2814:

• Dueling is a great way to pass time, while waiting either for a queue or other things.

But apart from Tequatl and Wurm, how many events actually require waiting? AFKing in DT and SW waiting for others to do the job?

runeblade, I remember your posts from another topics and I see you disregarding valid points here as well, so I don’t think we can have a fruitful discussion.

“Rams N’ Roses” would be more canonical

I am beginning to think that all those people begging for trinity simply cannot cope with having to do everything themselves and want GW2 nerfed to the trinity level…

maddoctor.2738:

~25 Stacks of Vulnerability, there are builds who can do this on their own, or the party can focus on going this route.
~25 Stacks of Might, same as the above, there are builds who can reach this on their own, but it’s better sometimes to have multiple party members to do it
~perma Fury, this is harder to achieve with one person, but a couple of players can keep it up forever
~Blinds, useful in some encounters, having blind fields is important
~Stealth, useful to save team mates and for runs
~Fire Fields, to stack might mostly
~Water Fields, for AoE healing and condi cleanse
~Blast finishers, to blast those fields for a variety of abilities
~Poison Fields, Whirl / Blast finishers turn these into AoE Weakness, very useful to lower the damage pressure on the party
~Aegis, Stability, Protection, useful boons for any party
~AoE Condi cleanse, important to remove conditions from party members during a run
~Projectile Reflection, self explanatory

The game is too benign to add something like that – even frequently requested swimsuits get ignored (however it is possible to wear one – check the Southsun beach for models).

I’m still wondering why Mini Faren is acceptable within this strict policy, though. And why there’s no Mini Christmas Bikini Kasmeer, for that matter…

runeblade.7514:

I tried many MMORPG to find where these hostile open world duelers are. I can’t find them. I found duelers, but so far I seen only respectful ones.

YMMV.

Those PvP fellows who get banned occasionally do not think they’re “rude” either.

Silalus.8760:

Lishtenbird.2814:

• Watchwork set (could we nerf the sprockets already so that people can buy tools based purely on looks and not efficiency?)

If this ever happens I’ll hit the freaking roof. That’s the only tool I bought and the only reason why.

Not everybody plays just for the cosmetics. I like to see big ’ol numbers!

Could you remind me why your 1000 gem tool should do more and cost less than my 1000 gem tool?

DeWolfe.2174:

If the set would cost 3,000 gems, I do not see a need for this at all.

A set is just a bunch of tools with the same visual theme. Bundles which contain several items at the same time do cost less, though.

DeWolfe.2174:

Much rather have all of them available individually 24/7/365. This way we can have player choice instead of being stuck with a set.

Might be the case since the tools are now there for a long time. Could it be forever?

naiasonod.9265:

So long as this isn’t yet another ‘can haz duel plz?’ thread, awesome.

I think it’s a carefully disguised one.

My summary of the other 1000 dueling threads:

Lishtenbird.2814:

[~] Threads for reference:

• Why is there still no dueling?
• PvE Dueling
• Why is there No Dueling and no Trading
• Really need a dueling menu

[+] Arguments in favour:

• That other game has it; we’ve seen it done there and enjoyed it.
• Dueling is for fun, not for leaderboards.
• Dueling is a great way to pass time, while waiting either for a queue or other things.
• Dueling is a way to get to know someone, without them even speaking.
• Dueling allows players to get to know themselves, as well as their builds.
• Custom arenas are unintuitive and cost money.
• We want our gear to matter in duels because we worked for it.
• To deal with duel harassment, make duels voluntary, give an option to hide/ignore duel requests.

[-] Arguments against:

• GW2 is not that other game. Dueling in GW2 is like that eternal fight between a whale and an elephant, because GW2 was designed with class synergy in mind: different classes with different damage, control and utility skills, combo fields, AoE sharing (and stripping) boons and conditions. That’s why PvP has the 5v5 structure, and the objective is to hold points, and not kill each other.
• Since dueling is not a supported game mode, it is natural that the available method to duel (custom arena) has inconveniences.
• Your gear stats will be normalized, as the design behind GW2 says that sports-like competition is about skills and not credit cards.
• No matter how you hide it through options, people will always find a way to annoy you in say chat, map chat and even whispers (like they do in WvW). The best way to prevent this is not to have dueling at all.
• Dueling would cause either a class balance disaster or a community disaster. There are already more than enough community complaints about mesmers and thiefs which caused them to be nerfed so hard because of PvP that playing in PvE became meh, and making it even worse because of a game mode which wasn’t designed to exist in the first place would feel wrong for players maining these classes.
• People who duel have a negative attitude towards everyone else. We do not want to see dueling in a PvE environment as it will bring uneasiness and unsafety, which contradicts the philosophy of GW2’s PvE.

[=] Current state of affairs:

• “Dueling” threads are often met with negativity, both because this is a sensitive topic and because it has been discussed countless times. Still, new “dueling” threads appear every now and then, showing that there are players who are actively wanting to discuss the addition of dueling.

Lishtenbird.2814:

• GW2 is not that other game. GW2 is a cooperative game, not a competitive game: you don’t compete over loot, nodes and such. For competition, we have two options: sPvP and WvW. If current PvP/WvW game modes are not enough, you can always suggest new ones, but in the boundaries of competitive areas.
• Open world PvP is detrimental. Different kinds of players exist: those who prefer fair and healthy competition, and those who prefer fierce and unhealthy competition. The first are usually peaceful non-hardcore teenagers and casual grown-up players (which turn out to be the target audience for which GW2 was actually designed in the first place, with all the timidness of content, failproofness and cooperativeness in mind), and the latter are usually aggressive teenagers who are using online games as a sublimation for unsatisfied offline desires of being “better” than others, while not being constrained by offline moral and law limits. This usually leads to offensive behaviour, which can already be seen in both PvP and WvW (with as far as death threat whispers); such things are not tolerated in GW2. Open world PvP attracts the second type of players, and since many mature players already live a moderately risky life, they see their games as a comfort zone to rest in, and not a war zone similar to life, and want GW2 to stay as is.

Lishtenbird.2814:

• A lot of people feel that GW2 is a casual friendly cooperative game which was not designed to have open world PvP, and they want it to remain that way. For competition, sPvP and WvW modes were included in the game. New PvP/WvW game modes, including GvG, with separate large maps, are discussed as valid options.

Another thread about PvP community.

Morsus.5106:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Michael Conrad.6704:

everybody likes the idea of Heroes as far as I know

I don’t.

Please no more braindead NPC “helping”, knocking mobs away, removing defiance, spamming light fields, bugging out somewhere 10 miles away, aggroing random stuff

Sounds like a lot of pugs. I’m all for heroes. They can’t be any worse than the pugs.

They can. They don’t listen, like, at all, ever. And you can’t kick them halfway and get someone who actually knows which buttons to press.

Rauderi.8706:

Or maybe after Mordy gets a visual reveal, we could get minion tools. Mini-mordy swings by, then drops off a sylvari slave to do your dirty work. :P

“Now that’s just excessive.”

Orpheal.8263:

especialyl if those 3 would be designed after the Tempest Weapon Set in the same style, just as Harvesting Tools as my Main runs around already with Tempest Daggers and a Tempest Shortbow. as weapon Sets.

Huh, would be cool if all BLTC weapons actually went with gathering tools.

Orpheal.8263:

I’d love to see also a Permanent Harvesting Tool Trade Option findign its way into the Game, so that you could be able to trade a Permanent Tool against an other permanent Tool for some kind of Gold + Karma Fee

While the idea is nice, I don’t really see it happening because money.

Basaltface.2786:

the sets should be made complete imo…id own a lot more of them if id get a watchwork sickle and axe too. Dont even care about the sprocket bonus…i just like gears and stuff and these things are one of the few items that give me gears.

Same with Dreamcleaver for me. I like the “magical” type of stuff, but getting just a single tool feels wrong.

Michael Conrad.6704:

everybody likes the idea of Heroes as far as I know

I don’t.

Please no more braindead NPC “helping”, knocking mobs away, removing defiance, spamming light fields, bugging out somewhere 10 miles away, aggroing random stuff and – most important – letting entitled play-how-I-wants get everything for AFKing in a corner.

Since it’s working as intended, it’ll never happen.
Since it’ll never happen, can we have your stuff?

Glory has been replaced by PvP reward tracks: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pvp_reward_track

For Molten weapons, you activate the Citadel of Flame reward track and pick an item from the final chest. To pick a Dungeon reward track, you either wait for it to come to the rotation, or unlock it permanently by completing the respective Story dungeon.

That said, CoF p1 is so hell fast that grinding it daily is a better way of getting skins than PvP IMO.

Go for engi.

After maining mesmer and sub-maining guardian and ele, I’ve tried playing warriors (got even 2 of them) and it just feels so braindead and boring that I can’t stick to it.

On the other hand, if you start as a warrior, you’ll have a whole new game to explore once you switch to other classes, so…

Could look nice on mesmer.

Mixing and matching gathering tools might be nice, but having full sets of gathering tools is even better.

Currently we have three complete thematic sets:

• Molten/fused gathering tools (the phoenix is kinda unwarranted, but still)
• -r-tron gathering tools
• Minion set (the bone pick features an oil theme which could’ve been used separately, but still)

Several items have also appeared in bundles:

• Gadgeteer pack (Watchwork, Chop-It-All, Thresher-Sickle 5000)
• Consortium pack (Consortium Harvesting Sickle, Chop-It-All, Molten)

I would instead prefer to have each theme getting a whole set of tools:

• Dreamcleaver set (based on Dreamcleaver axe – my favourite – would’ve got it already if there was a matching set!)
• Nature/Water set (based on Consortium Harvesting Sickle)
• Lightning/Storm set (based on Chop-It-All Axe)
• Watchwork set (could we nerf the sprockets already so that people can buy tools based purely on looks and not efficiency?)
• Fancy Magical/Insect tools (based on Frost Wasp)
• Jack-in-the-Box should never appear again better stay unique IMO, and Thresher-Sickle 5000 is more or less the same as -r-trons, so…
• While we’re at it, how about a Mordrem gathering tool set?

So, are you okay with mixing tools or would you also like complete matching sets?

Reminder: this thread is not about how expensive these tools are, how you’ll never buy them at this price, how you’ll never return the gold, how they should be accessible by all characters etc. but about complete thematic sets

Takeo.8061:

I’m sure i’m not the only one that thinks this would be a good feature.

You’re not the only one:

Fortus.6175:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Build-templates-1
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Add-a-GW1-Template-System-in-GW2/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Template-for-people-that-are-about-to-make-a-thread-here/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Template-auto-load-depending-on-map/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Suggestion-Trait-Resets-Savable-Builds/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Saving-builds-1/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-UE4-template-for-community-PvP-maps
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Build-and-gear-template-saving-idea
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Template-code-system-from-GW1-coming-back
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Give-us-Template-builds
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Build-Template-System-Incoming
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/Guild-Emblem-Template-Issue
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Save-Load-Build-Templates

Or we can leave WvW out of map completion altogether, as has been requested thousands of times.