Lol, shelfing mesmer that quick? If you think those small dmg nerfs were the thing carrying you, you’re better off shelfing it anyway.
Maybe it’s more about the trust in ANet that actually tweak the stuff that are necessary, instead of the ones pointed out in this thread? Did you forget the MtD and Chaotic Dampening nerfs too?
That and the previous patch removing some of the damage modifers for Mantras did it in for me. Oddly enought though, how Mantras were working, resetting the CD after precast, even if it was a bug, helped to redeem the patch. Now that’s fixed with this new patch and mantras are now lackluster once again.
I’ve noticed now the ability under the Security section that you’re real name and birthdate can be edited. Can you tell me the implications of changing these?
in general in GW2:
IF lifesteal scales: (it doesn’t always. it depends on the skill, food effect, rune, sigil)
~the damage from lifesteal / siphon scales from power
~the healing from lifesteal / siphon scales from healing power
Exactly.
If the healing part of the siphon traits scales off healing power, it would make healing power a decent stat for Shiro/Ventari revenants, since you get benefit from both Legends. Since the damage portion scales from power, it would make Zealots a decent set for that build, having both damage and sustain with group support.
It scales like the necromancer’s life siphon traits; power increases the damage and healing power increasing the healing of the life siphon. You’ll have to wait to play with it to see how it scales.
Hooray! Thanks for the reply Roy, but we already sort of knew that would be the case I was after the exact numbers, but ok, I can wait… But I’ll to wait until late December, because I am in Antarctica until then!
What the heck are you going to be doing down there? Microbial research? Study the penguins? Just need to cool off for a bit?
I’m already down here, been here since November last year. I look after the mechanical equipment and generators down here, best job ever! Too bad there is not enough bandwidth to play GW2 though heh, well, it IS Antarctica afterall…
Wow! That’s pretty cool (pun intended). I had just learned about how despite being a desert of sorts that there’s always 3000 +/- people there all year long.
I still believe Glint will be focused on one of the two underpowered roles in GW2 ( Healing and Tanking) which these elite specialization supposed to address to for this new group content.
The shield had lots of healing skills.
also note that since its a offhand weapon we likely getting new F2 skill.
Those two roles are supposed to come from Ventari (healing) and Jalis (tanking). These two just need to be tweaked a bit more for effectiveness to complete the roles.
By no means are weapons tied to a specific legend. Revenant weapons are usually themed in feel and playstyle with a legend to create a comprehensive package if you want to play a certain way, such as sword, shiro, and the devastation line for physical damage. But that doesn’t mean that they aren’t meant to be mixed and matched as well to create unique and interesting builds. There are a lot of really cool builds you can make by trying out different combinations.
Thank you Roy for clearing up the confusion for everyone. Keep up the good work.
in general in GW2:
IF lifesteal scales: (it doesn’t always. it depends on the skill, food effect, rune, sigil)
~the damage from lifesteal / siphon scales from power
~the healing from lifesteal / siphon scales from healing power
Exactly.
If the healing part of the siphon traits scales off healing power, it would make healing power a decent stat for Shiro/Ventari revenants, since you get benefit from both Legends. Since the damage portion scales from power, it would make Zealots a decent set for that build, having both damage and sustain with group support.
It scales like the necromancer’s life siphon traits; power increases the damage and healing power increasing the healing of the life siphon. You’ll have to wait to play with it to see how it scales.
Hooray! Thanks for the reply Roy, but we already sort of knew that would be the case I was after the exact numbers, but ok, I can wait… But I’ll to wait until late December, because I am in Antarctica until then!
What the heck are you going to be doing down there? Microbial research? Study the penguins? Just need to cool off for a bit?
That is a problem that still exists, even with the weapon swap. All the Weapon swap did was band-aid the underlying problem of lacking cross-compatibility between weapons and legends.
I know I’m gonna catch flak for it, but comparing to every other class in the game, you have a range of synergy between weapons and traits….. but no class other then the Revanent requires a Specific weapon for an entire trait line to operate correctly. Even Marksmanship (the next closest pigeon hole) is broad enough to be used on an All-melee ranger.
Sadly, this may be an expanding design philosophy. One of the minor traits for the Dragonhunter more or less assumes that you will be using the longbow (and maybe the scepter) as those are the only weapons that qualify for being beyond the Pure of Sight range threshold.
All classes have weapon improving traits in their traitlines though. What’s wrong with Rev getting the same?
I’m not sure how this connects with what I was actually lamenting about.
Went back and re-read yours and star’s post, and yes, I somewhat misunderstood what you were pointing out.
But I think you and star are still wrong on what you bolded from the original post. How is it that a Rev’s traitlines are invalidated without using a specific weapon?
What I replied was that other classes have weapon improving traits in their lines too, but does that invalidate the traitlines if you don’t use that weapon?
Except, no one is really saying they HAVE to be signets.
You must have missed that whole “If it looks like a duck” bit then.
I do disagree with you that signet passives won’t work because of Legend swapping. People are assuming that Revs are supposed to swap Legends on cooldown because of how Elems work, but I don’t think that’s the intention of the design. I think your supposed to swap based on Utility need. If you look at it that way, signet passives would work then.
So what’s the point of the legend swapping again if we’re not meant to swap legends? If that’s how you feel, we may as well be stuck in one legend without the swap.
Two wrongs in your reading comprehension:
1. The duck thing was stated by me, but no where in the world did I say “if it looks like a duck it HAS to be a duck.” Besides, that was just a joke.
2. I did not say you are “not meant to swap Legends.” I said I believe they are not meant to be swapped on cooldown, meaning use the Legend swap when you need it, as in you need the utility skills of the other Legend or you’re hitting below 50 energy. Although, I’d argue the latter too, but that’s a different debate, and one I wouldn’t consider until the next beta test.
I keep reading some posters that state the Legends and Weapons are supposed to be intertwined and aren’t designed to work with other Legends, independant of each other. For example, Staff is designed to work only with Ventari and if you use any other weapon, you’re gimping yourself.
But why think this way?
When I tested the Revenant during the beta trial, I didn’t get that feeling. I don’t understand why people keep saying this. Is it because each weapon is release along with the Legend? I’d think that’s more lore-based history on how a Revenant learns to use the weaponry they are able to use rather than how they are supposed to function mechanically with Legends. Maybe I’m wrong?
A similar thread got downvoted to oblivion on Reddit, so 99% of the community is in favor of weaponswap.
Just ignore him, don’t bump this thread anymore.
I wouldn’t base Reddit downvoting as an indication for anything really. I bet you 1 copper* that if the opposite supporting thread were put up, it’d get downvoted to oblivion too.
Could they be signets? Yes. Is it a guarantee? No. I’m inclined to agree with draxynnic that we should not necessarily assume they are signets. And it’s the nature and character of signets that give me pause.
More pressingly, I am having a difficult time imagining how an all signet utility bar would function with the core Revenant playstyle that involves legend-swapping utility bars. True, the e-spec tweaks the playstyle of the core profession, but how far would the Revenant e-spec venture from the core idea of alacritous legend-swapping? At the end of the day, the dragonhunter still has virtues. The reaper still has a shroud. The tempest still swaps between all four elements. The chronomancer still shatters illusions. The druid will still have pets, and I suspect we will observe similar trends with the unrevealed profession e-specs.
The nature of signet skills in GW2 is that they generally provide minor passives but have larger activation effects but result in the loss of those passive effects. Unless you are a warrior face-rolling open world content on autopilot with all the passives you can muster, most people don’t equip all the signets at once on their profession.
The Revenant, however, would be constantly losing all of those signet passives by legend swapping. The passives may as well not exist, because signet passives are there to offset the opportunity cost of keeping them unused on your bar. What’s the point of having signets and their passives if you are constantly losing those passives? The most comparable profession to such a situation is with necromancer signets and death shroud locking out skills #6-10.
I could only really seeing signet skills work if those signet passives were somehow retained when the other legend was being channeled. But if that was the case, then having those Glint passives in the other legend would lend itself to a playstyle that mostly stayed in one legend. Could we see that with the Revenant e-spec? Maybe. After all, the Tempest’s overload incentivizes that to an extent. But certainly such an e-spec would be a great disservice to not only Glint but also the idea that channeling a particular legend provides the Revenant with that legend’s own self-contained idiomatic playstyle.
So if they are not signets, what else could they be? I don’t know nor can I say for certain. But right now I am entertaining the possibility that the Revenant e-spec will gain summonable spirits, as per the Ranger AND, more importantly, the GW1 Ritualist. It’s not as if people have not already drawn thematic and lore comparisons between the Revenant and Ritualist already. Also, the circular shape of 4/5 of the Ranger’s spirit skills also involve a uniform background pattern, a circle, and a non-metallic design, as described above with the Glint skills. To be clear, I’m not saying that e-spec will be the Ritualist. I simply think that it’s possible that the Revenant e-spec could provide and harken back to a playstyle similar to the Ritualist through summonable spirits.
Except, no one is really saying they HAVE to be signets. In fact, it’s quite the opposite, draxy is saying that it is NOT signets, in an absolute sense.
I do disagree with you that signet passives won’t work because of Legend swapping. People are assuming that Revs are supposed to swap Legends on cooldown because of how Elems work, but I don’t think that’s the intention of the design. I think your supposed to swap based on Utility need. If you look at it that way, signet passives would work then.
That is a problem that still exists, even with the weapon swap. All the Weapon swap did was band-aid the underlying problem of lacking cross-compatibility between weapons and legends.
I know I’m gonna catch flak for it, but comparing to every other class in the game, you have a range of synergy between weapons and traits….. but no class other then the Revanent requires a Specific weapon for an entire trait line to operate correctly. Even Marksmanship (the next closest pigeon hole) is broad enough to be used on an All-melee ranger.
Sadly, this may be an expanding design philosophy. One of the minor traits for the Dragonhunter more or less assumes that you will be using the longbow (and maybe the scepter) as those are the only weapons that qualify for being beyond the Pure of Sight range threshold.
All classes have weapon improving traits in their traitlines though. What’s wrong with Rev getting the same?
Or rather than that, what about giving the Rev a 25% bonus to his energy pool?
The boon only applies reduction for 1 skill, not anymore for the whole duration.
Hmm, that’s true.
Weapon skills may still end up losing their energy requirements and be strict CDs. I hope that doesn’t happen because that could throw off the balancing of having both weapon swap and utility swap.
How can you force game balancing on symmetry. Do I even need to explain that?
That’s not really game balance though. It’s just a way to provide variety to the heavy armor classes based on 2 other classes.
By your logic, what’s the point in having 3 different class groups? Then it becomes, why have different stats and not just have the same? Then it becomes why have different skills? Let’s just make everyone the same.
looks like Glint will be a Damage soaker tank, in the sense that they will absorb damage through healing, like pre-nerfed Heal Signet Warriors.
The Signets suggest to me, that something is changing about the Energy system when using Elite Spec.
The Elite Spec will be focused on Energy consumption in traits some how.
Also since its a Off Hand weapon, gives this more reason to believe this is melee oriented in your face kind of play style.
You bring up another good point, it was stated early that any class that gets and Off Hand weapon would be getting additional skills to offset the classes that get two handers. For example, Mesmers are getting an additional F5, time altering skill added to the class mechanic rather than the mechanic being completely changed. Perhaps this is the case with Revenants, which F2 becomes a 3rd Legend swap with Glint, giving you the ability to channel 3 Legends.
I highly doubt they are going to reveal much more about the maps and gameplay itself. Part of wanting to buy the game comes from wanting to know what’s behind the doors. Afterall, would you want something as bad if you already knew what it was beforehand? The mystery is part of the appeal.
I do expect them to reveal the Elite specs though, no doubt, but I don’t expect much more than that. And honestly, I hope they don’t.
That’s a pretty neat idea. Elite spec is supposed to alter or add to the class mechanic.
I wouldn’t mind Revenant being an exception, however I’d prefer something like passive effects for each legend.
Aye, I personally hope that if the mechanic is changed, it’d only be like adding Glint as another Legend via a toggable F2, or something, and not change the ability to switch modes ala Legends.
Can we just remove weapon swap and make the skills actually meaningful and good.
instead of trying to build impossible connection with the things we already have…
If we can get into some actual productive speculation…
I saw a comment about a datamined effect that turns incoming damage into healing. Sounds like Crystal Hibernation to me… Has anyone seen and can corroborate the original source?
Looks like Signets? Check
All classes with ties to magic have Signets? Check
Revenant is missing Signet? Check
Looks like a duck, smells like a duck, walks like a duck….. It’s a duck. Or in this case, Signets.
Elite Specialisation Name: Ritualist
Stance: Legendary Dragon Glint
Skills: Rituals (reverse Signets)
Instead of an ongoing passive effect that is lost after you use the active skill, you activate a skill for a immediate effect and get a passive once its on cooldown. After Cooldown runs out you loose the passive effect. Would allow to switch to glint, activate a ritual or two, then swap back to another legend but now with the passive ritual effect.
Example: Elite Ritual – Invoking Prophecy
Aktivating this skill converts incoming damage to healing to you and nearby allies. While on cooldown you get every 5seconds retaliation
maybe this skill have longer casttimes…
just an idea
That’s a pretty neat idea. Elite spec is supposed to alter or add to the class mechanic.
Worse, ArenaNet is very obviously suggesting that players should play in very specific combinations of weapons & legend & traits – they are pushing for double swords to be combined with the Shiro legend and the Shiro traits, for mace and axe to be combined with the Mallyx legend and the Mallyx traits, and so on.
Where did you get this info? I see no reason why any of the available weapons to a Rev can’t be played with other legends.
As I said before, this is just a fun post. No need to shove your opinion down the throat of other’s ideas.
I’m not shoving my opinion down anyone’s throat. I’m simply stating mine regarding proposed legends. There’s no need for your uncalled for rude behavior.
I’m not the rude one here. Just pointing out some fallacy in your original post.
Wow, way to ruin a fun thread with pushing your opinion on other’s ideas. +1 for seriousness, right?
Also, where’s your actual numbers for “lot in the community” because from what I saw just as many actually wanted GS on Rev’s. Since we’re using those terms and numbers, I saw that lots more wanted GS than those that didn’t.
Did you really come into this thread just to call me out?
Had 2 posts in the thread before you even showed up. Try again m8.
As I said before, this is just a fun post. No need to shove your opinion down the throat of other’s ideas.
If we’re just throwing names out there, I’m gonna go with Jora as the Legendary Norn Stance, Or maybe Snaff as the Legendary Golemancer Stance (assuming we aren’t just channeling GW1 characters. But beyond that, I’m not really what sort of role they could fill, gameplay wise.
That sounds interesting. What sort of Utilities/weapons would they bring?
1. Never really got into backstories ala role playing much, but here it goes: He started off as a Guardian, as one of the only Charrs to actually have religion, switched to Warrior because of his love for bladed weaponry and wanted so much to dual wield a sword alongside his legendary GS, and now will evolve into the Revenant, missing the magical abilities of Guardian, but willing to do whatever it takes to vanquish his enemies.
2. Charr (for life!)
3. Dual Sword
4. Favorite Legend is a bit early since the Elite isn’t out yet, but out of the four, I kind of like the looks and idea of Mallyx. Functionally? Shiro.
5. Scary tough, and like a monster.
6. Will be my main.
Fun thread, thanks for making it!
I like the back story as for char and scary look I have to see that sometime :p you will have to add me and give me a shout when you look Al ferocious and awesome it’s going to be my main too and yeah I love mallyx I’m still angry at shiro for killing my friend master Togo >:( so I will abuse his power and force him to do things he seriously hates xD and duel swords seems to be very popular
And no worries! I like fun things and I want to start eating active on the forums! Now I know there’s a Revenant thread I want to try make more in the future
I’m on NA servers otherwise, I’d consider it m8.
On the dual swords, I’ve got a serious blade fetish, so it comes naturally with the Rev for me. I only wish we could have had GS and daggers added in the mix too.
1. Never really got into backstories ala role playing much, but here it goes: He started off as a Guardian, as one of the only Charrs to actually have religion, switched to Warrior because of his love for bladed weaponry and wanted so much to dual wield a sword alongside his legendary GS, and now will evolve into the Revenant, missing the magical abilities of Guardian, but willing to do whatever it takes to vanquish his enemies.
2. Charr (for life!)
3. Dual Sword
4. Favorite Legend is a bit early since the Elite isn’t out yet, but out of the four, I kind of like the looks and idea of Mallyx. Functionally? Shiro.
5. Scary tough, and like a monster.
6. Will be my main.
I never played gw1 so i can’t say anyone from there(but i’m sure they all will be fro mthere.)
But i’d say Tybalt for the engineer legend, if they ever do it.
I would be against having Tybalt as a legend. He has done nothing noteworthy apart from having an endearing personality. He has little to no historical legacy in the game or achievements to his name. There are so many other characters I would consider before Tybalt even registered as a candidate to make the list.
Dhuum would be cool except for the fact that he’s not dead. Just dormant. I would love to see Kalla Scorchrazor for 3 reasons.
1. It would add a Charr legend that Charr players can feel comfortable channeling.
2. It would add another female legend.
3. The Specialization weapon could be Greatsword!
As for the utility skills it can grant, perhaps it could draw inspiration from Warrior and get stances that act as upkeep skills that grant perma resistance, perma stability, and perma invuln as long as you have the energy. Of course, they can be balanced out to cost a lot of energy considering they would be very strong. Elite skill can summon Kalla’s soldiers similar to Thieves guild except all Warriors instead of thieves making them more tanky.
While I like the idea of adding another female legend, I think that Bonfaaz Burntfur would be a far more interesting choice. He’s Flame Legion, caused the Searing of Ascalon, and led the charr forces in its assault. It makes his use by a Revenant, particularly if you were charr and human, far more complex.
(Also, the Revenant not getting greatsword was one of those things that a lot in the community actually rejoiced about given how tired we were of everyone and their mother’s lap dog having the overused greatsword.)
Wow, way to ruin a fun thread with pushing your opinion on other’s ideas. +1 for seriousness, right?
Also, where’s your actual numbers for “lot in the community” because from what I saw just as many actually wanted GS on Rev’s. Since we’re using those terms and numbers, I saw that lots more wanted GS than those that didn’t.
Dhuum would be cool except for the fact that he’s not dead. Just dormant. I would love to see Kalla Scorchrazor for 3 reasons.
1. It would add a Charr legend that Charr players can feel comfortable channeling.
2. It would add another female legend.
3. The Specialization weapon could be Greatsword!
As for the utility skills it can grant, perhaps it could draw inspiration from Warrior and get stances that act as upkeep skills that grant perma resistance, perma stability, and perma invuln as long as you have the energy. Of course, they can be balanced out to cost a lot of energy considering they would be very strong. Elite skill can summon Kalla’s soldiers similar to Thieves guild except all Warriors instead of thieves making them more tanky.
I’d be good with that. Plus, GS is always great to have. <pun intended>
Love how you completely ignored one of my points to support the theory that they are signets.
Also, you have yet to answer why you think the devs can’t simply make sigents work with energy cost over using a cool down other than pointing out the differences in GW1 vs GW2. That’s not a real answer.
Finally, if I’m not mistake, you’re the only one saying “must” in their words. I don’t think anyone here was being absolute. If anyone is absolute, it’s you saying “they’re not signets.”
or the ability to channel more than 2 legendary stances. Three legendary stances would be great, so that we can match the 3 specializations accordingly.
I was rather disappointed myself that we could only use 2 Legends at a time. It would be nice if they changed it to more than two.
The abilities on the legends are specialized to certain gear affixes like shiro for berserker/assassin, Jalis for Soldier/Knight/Other tanky gear, Mallyx for condition based gear, etc so you’d probably end up using only 2 of them at most anyway depending on your gear choice since the other legends would not have abilities that synergize with your gear choice.
It would also be too much to manage and also since energy gates your abilities you wouldn’t be able to take advantage of all those legends anyway.
Nah, Legend’s aren’t really tied to gear like that, or weapons for that matter. That’d be like saying you can’t use your heal skill because you don’t have Healing Power maxed out. Or, like saying a zerker-geared Guardian shouldn’t use the Monks trait in the Valor line because there’s no HP increase in his gear.
On your second point, it wouldn’t really be that hard to handle… not sure why it would be. I also disagree with the energy. Switching Legends gives you back 50 energy. You wouldn’t really want to switch Legends now if you have 100 energy as it stands with just switching 2.
self-applied conditions will be changed to no longer use your condition duration so they feel less punishing
What about our condition damage? Does it still apply to self-inflicted damaging conditions (torment in this case)?
P.S. Can necro corruptions get this fix?
Unfortunately, right now we only can do this for non-damaging conditions. Ideally we’d allow damaging conditions to use your condition damage still(otherwise damage would be so low it’d be essentially no penalty), but not duration.
Yes, necro corruptions can for the non damaging ones, like Revenant.
What about stack transfering? As of beta, didn’t only 1 stack from you get transfered to your target while in Mallyx elite form? Is this going to be changed to transfer the entire stack over?
It’s doesn’t transfer, just copy each condition type on you. It’s designed to just copy over one stack of each condition type on your character with each pulse. With the lowered pulse time change, this means you’ll be able to stack up conditions copied especially when you have some condition duration.
Thanks for clearing that up. I agree with the other posters though, that it should copy the stacks too.
One very good reason to expect Glint to be signets is that all other classes have signet skills, with the only exception falling to Engineers. Revenant does not have signets yet. As to the argument that signets are unable to work with the energy system, there is no reason to remove CDs and replace that with high costing energy points instead.
Could they make Engineers not feel so lonely in this category? Perhaps, but there is no reason to completely dismiss the possibility of signets altogether too.
You can however trigger 4 sigils at once in this way, but chances are it won’t be game breaking, and changing it will be less fun than leaving it. Adds a bit of bonus to playing your cards right, imo.
Anyways here’s how:
Swap to a weapon set. That puts the sigils on a 9 second CD (2).
After those 9 seconds are up, 1 second left until you can weapon swap, change legends, triggering your current weapon sigils again, then change weapons which triggers the second set of sigils (all must be unique!).
It works very similarly to how Fast Hands sigil dancing works, except in this case you have to always swap Legend -> Weapon on cooldown to get that benefit. This isn’t very practical though, so I wouldn’t suggest forcing this as a rotation.
Or just swap legends, then swap weapons immediately. That’d put both your weapon and legend swap on CD though…
self-applied conditions will be changed to no longer use your condition duration so they feel less punishing
What about our condition damage? Does it still apply to self-inflicted damaging conditions (torment in this case)?
P.S. Can necro corruptions get this fix?
Unfortunately, right now we only can do this for non-damaging conditions. Ideally we’d allow damaging conditions to use your condition damage still(otherwise damage would be so low it’d be essentially no penalty), but not duration.
Yes, necro corruptions can for the non damaging ones, like Revenant.
What about stack transfering? As of beta, didn’t only 1 stack from you get transfered to your target while in Mallyx elite form? Is this going to be changed to transfer the entire stack over?
The sigil type CDs are universal for sigils of that type. That means you can only trigger Sigil of Battle, for instance, once every 9 seconds regardless of whether that comes from a legend swap or a weapon swap.
I was after the exact numbers, but ok, I can wait… But I’ll to wait until late December, because I am in Antarctica until then!
as for char and scary look I have to see that sometime :p you will have to add me and give me a shout when you look Al ferocious
and yeah I love mallyx I’m still angry at shiro for killing my friend master Togo >:( so I will abuse his power and force him to do things he seriously hates xD and duel swords seems to be very popular
otherwise, I’d consider it m8.)