Guild Wars 2

Curunen.8729:

Hmm I like that synergy with Ineptitude and Blinding Dissipation among other things.

Going to be a tough choice for me between Ineptitude and MoF, but I’m probably going to have to go with the latter as I’m drooling for Evasive Mirror so would miss out on those blinds.

But I suppose as it has a 10s ICD per foe, it could work nicely with blurred frenzy and evasive mirror – aoe reflect, blind and evade, and add alacrity to that in the future…

I have a lot of ideas on our reflective capabilities. Evasive Mirror is SO good. I see it getting 35% use (which is good), BD getting 60% (as most builds will be incorporating shatters, and this is just so good for team play) and the updated sword trait getting 5% use. This is all from a pvp perspective btw. In terms of PvE, I see Evasive Mirror and the sword trait getting A LOT more use there than BD.

MoF is so good with AOE Diversion alone!! We’ve been forced to manage without it all this time, but having AOE Diversion is going to rekt with all of our interrupt traits I think from my perusing on the forums, it’s already being underrated which is a mistake of many Mesmers here imo.

TL;DR So essentially, I see my maim shatter turning into an interrupt condi shatter build with a focus on dmg mitigation via blinds/weakness/stuns.

My curernt Maim Build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAraWlknpMtNqxVNcrNCrBh6rkmfSyEEgSWhrB-TJRHwAp3fIZZABnCAAPBAA

How I’ll be shifting:

• DOMINATION: Confounding Suggestions, Shattered Concentration, Power Block
• DUELING: Duelist Discipline, Blinding Dissipation, Deceptive Evasion
• ILLUSIONS: Compounding Power, Maim The Disillusioned, Ineptitude
  Utilities: Ether Feast, Blink, Decoy, Mimic, Time Warp

The Chaos line is very tempting, but I can’t imagine a situation where I could go without Shattered Concentration while playing a non-supportive shatter build. Considering I take pistol over torch for a more initially aggressive approach, it doesn’t hurt having the lockdown traits of Powerblock/CS. The weakness on PB is going to hurt.

In terms of illusions, I think there is a lot of synergy with Ineptitude. You’ll have blinds from every shatter as well as random blinds from chaos armor. Additionally, Pistol 5 will absolutely rekt in this build, stunning 2 foes for 2s+ and blinding/confusing a third on every shot. And this doesn’t include if I get an interrupt off.

I’m just in awe of Lyssa’s beauty right now.

StickerHappy.8052:

Dondagora.9645:

StickerHappy.8052:

BB (ineptitude) is whack, competes with Malicious sorcery and incidentally scepter also has the block that will serve nice with BB.

Imagine: Going into the middle of a zerg fight and using Blurred Frenzy + Dodges. Basically 50~100% the zerg gets blinded + confused because the ICD is bound to specific foes, AKA no max target limit. Hells yes~

Yeap I agree, but it competes the spot with Malicious Sorcery! 15% attack speed would be nice with sigil of rage!

True, but you assume every condition build wanting to apply confusion/blind will run scepter. This isn’t the case now and still won’t be the case due to how strong sword is.

BB is great and will most likely see a lot of use in wvw. Maybe in some pve content as well. Some niche pvp uses perhaps.

Fay.2357:

I’m looking forward to the GTFO potential of this. Something not going your way? 2400 range instantly, see ya!

I’m not a wvw roamer, but I imagine this combined with PU would make for an ETERNAL LIFE MESMER BUILD. lol

Let’s be serious here guys. How often will you have 3 phantasms out for longer than 10s? And if you are tanky or have enough sustain, you wouldn’t foolishly be smashing away at clone summoning skills anyway right?!

eta – even when I was running a clerics signet tank build, I never had the opportunity to overwrite phantasms with other phantasms.

You’ll definitely get some mileage out of this skill now!

It really looks like they took some of our criticisms to heart (see the sword trait). Once again, Anet is making a fantastic turn around showing us that they are making an effort with our class. I’ve been happy with them since they initially showed changes, and they just keep getting better.

On a brief over view, it seems like they sorta tried to make things better in PvE as well.

I also have hope that “Malignant Inscriptions” can still be a thing… And that Inspiration trait line. omg.

After a brief skim, I must praise Lyssa for her benevolence.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

jportell.2197:

SlimChance.6593:

I think a better question would be: “Is having IP baseline enough to live without DE?”

I’m kinda thinking that maybe illusions will be less necessary for shatter builds. I know it sounds weird. But really I think chronomancer can run a shatter build w/o the illusions tree.

I’m pretty sure you’re right. Shatter Mesmer can now get some good options from either Inspiration (Condi cleanse + Heal shatter) or Chaos (Chaotic Interrupt, Stability+Boon on Shatter) too, not even considering the Chrono stuff and F5 shatter.

Master of Frag is the only reason to go into Illusions

Incorrect. Other reasons to go into Illusions for a shatter build:

• Illusionist Celerity = illusion-summoning CDs
• Shattered Strength = might on shatter and shattering CDs (this could also theoretically apply to F5 if you went Dom/Ill/Chr)
• Illusionary Retribution = pretty underrated benefit of this skill in a power-based build is that it adds a cover condition. While other classes do better with confusion, not many actually apply it often. This makes it harder for enemies to clear the more important conditions applied by allies.

Does Alacrity make up for these CDs? I’m unsure. I think it’ll be hard for Chrono to replace DE in a “classic shatter” build, because you’re not really getting clones on demand. It’s more reactive in the way that you have to already be shattering in order to gain additional clones. It’s weird way to think about it.

If you’re not taking DE, then going into Chronomancer will lend itself to be more supportive/interrupt based than purely shatter imo. But the great thing about our trait revamp is that most builds are now a nice conglomeration of shatter/phantasm/interrupt in addition to having the ability to go either supportive, condi/power or tanky!

eta – Also, I know we’ve been forced to do without Imbued Diversion for a long time, but omg is that a potentially strong trait when you think about all of our buffed interrupt traits like Power Block.

I’d rather they work on new TDM, Stronghold and Conquest maps than on a new lobby. Specifically, the first two would be nice!

Rym.1469:

I’m not entirely sure about Chill to Resistance conversion. Isn’kitten bit too strong boon for it?

I thought Taunt will get that conversion.

taunt isn’t a condition.

What a mess this is. haha I hope they come back soon.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Please low cooldown on boon sharing with the inspiration grandmaster. Pleaaaaaaaaaaase Anet, let boon sharing be a thing. We promise we won’t try to break it.

I’m thinking we’ll get some more information on how it works along with changes to Temporal Enchantment, Compounding Celerity and maybe a few other things. I’m hoping they combined Restorative Illusions and Shattered Conditions to make room for a new trait. I’m SO excited!!!

Curunen.8729:

jportell.2197:

Curunen.8729:

jportell.2197:

Curunen.8729:

I’m crossing my fingers hoping they don’t slap a horrible ICD on Evasive Mirror…

RIGHT! it is just sooo good lol. +

Thank you – another reason for zero ICD.

I don’t think it will because like anything else that is on dodge for mesmer it is totally dependent on endurance.

On evade => should be on blurred frenzy as well (and underwater weapon skills, but who cares about those anymore…).

There’s underwater combat in gw2?

Well let’s not forget that revealed skills also affect Mesmers! :O I’d not want to be on the receiving end of a Lock On!

edit:

Currently trying to prepare my body for the Inspiration changes.

DrixTrix.7168:

as for the MOA our MOA should be changed to a butterfly, just sayin’

awww I would love this!! <3

I wonder what the duration on AOE Moa is… I would be even more horrified if it’s actually 10s.

Also, why couldn’t they have simply chosen another creature. AOE quaggans would be nice. It just makes our elite seem totally flavor-less.

^ The new and improved MtD shatter build is going to be devastating (my mouth is watering). Other classes might have a lot more access to condition clears, but them choosing to take them will be the important part.

So annoying that they have so much stuff to cover. lol I just want them to get to the Mesmer stuff!!

Btw, thanks for an interesting discussion! This is enjoyable!!

You make a very convincing argument on Chronomancer and how compared to others, the change in flavor is vanilla.

Unfortunately, when it comes to Mesmer mechanics and viability, anet is VERY far behind.. The change in core specs is a huge step up, and I think the Chronomancer elite spec is an offshoot of this as well.

That being said, that doesn’t change the wide opinion that the Chronomancer elite spec is a good one for the class, its mechanics and its viability across different game modes. I see this as more of a “fluffy” complaint that should be heavily considered for future elite specs. Don’t change anything with the line right now, because it’s near perfect!! (except for that wells trait. It should give Resistance at the end instead of encroaching on Null Field’s territory).

@slim

I think the “specialization” part comes from future Elite Specs, because these open up certain abilities and skills you wouldn’t have access to from your core trait specs. Like you said, this will become more apparent as they roll out more Elite Specs. It makes sense to me.

Besides, no Mesmer outside of PvE can viably spec into 2 grandmasters at a time. And our lack of viability in PvE content is a-whole-nother topic. The change will definitely give viable options to a lot of different Mesmer builds.

This is so rude of me, but I didn’t read the initial post. I’m just responding to the thread title. In a literal sense, yes this will decrease build diversity. However, this change will increase diversity of viable builds.

I’m too lazy to look at the numbers, but speaking of Mesmer, if there’s a possibility of 50+ different builds but only 1 of them is arguably effective in each game mode, what’s the point of build diversity???

I see the new changes as consolidating options and increasing the overall effectiveness of most builds. It’ll be easier to balance. In conclusion to reiterate: less overall build diversity, more viability of available builds. My body is ready and willing to accept such changes.

Considering I run condi shatter:
1. Dps Guard: they kill my clones so fast. If I don’t get my reflect off when they whirl, it’s an uphill battle.
2. Mesmer: such a cluttered mess especially with the constant Blink/Decoys. I tend to panic, which is a Mesmer’s greatest asset in a fight.
3. Thief: when equally skilled, but most thieves I face aren’t actually good by my standards. #hairflip

Thanks for the tip Morfedel. Currently, I use Feedback 85% of the time (Wars, Rangers, some thieves, GS Guards, Necros) and Nullfield the other 15%, but I don’t typically take the latter for condi clear. I take it when facing a composition full of potential boon stackers like eles/guards/engis. A good time Null with shatters can demolish all of their boons on a point.

In my recent ranked experience, conditions haven’t been a big issue which is why I don’t take it. On the chance that I encounter a condi enemy, I quickly let my team know that I can’t with 100% confidence handle them. Feedback takes care of condi mesmers well sometimes though.

CrimsonDX.4821:

Some people in this thread seem to forget that this game has TWO modes. The old way may have worked fine for PvP, but it was useless in PvE where enemies attacked very slowly. This change should hopefully make confusion a little more viable in PvE.

+1

Except confusion doesn’t [consistently] work fine for PvP, making these doubters seem even more short-sighted imo. We’ll see. The proof will be in the purple pudding.

People QQ enough about Mesmer in its under-powered state. I’m more than prepared for people to QQ even more once it is buffed. lol

Thanks for stopping by! Unfortunately, condi Mesmer kind of evens the playing field against thief. That being said, an equally skilled thief vs Condi Mes should still lead to a thief victory 60% of the times.

Since I maim Condi Shatter, I’ll give you some advice based on my encounters:

• Use your condition clears only when you’ve been “bursted” with confusion/torment. It takes a lot of ramp-up time for any condition Mesmer to be threatening. If you can clear the stacks, it gives you an opening for offense while we try to desperately ramp it back up.
• Don’t panic and smash keys when heavily confused. As Fay has coined, confusion is an “idiot-tax” but kind of easy to avoid if you’re patient due to the generally low duration. Mesmer is a pretty under-powered class that thrives on other players panicking and making petty mistakes. Don’t be that person that dies to confusion, because confusion really sucks as a condi. lol
• Keep your distance. Weave in and out while using stealth efficiently. If you keep your distance, it will be easier to dodge clones trying to shatter. The condi Mesmer loves a good melee 1v1 as this is where Scepter2/Staff145 excels. [Good] Thieves can usually out maneuver me if they come in and out of melee effectively in order to bait our “burst”.

This is all based on a power thief. If you’re a condi thief, then you should probably have a 80% win rate considering 50% of condi Mesmers don’t take condi clear themselves. I actually take Feedback instead of a condi clear these days…

Please come back for further discussion. I’m kind of in and out of hiatus, but if you would like to practice, mail me in game!! <3

morrolan.9608:

bhagwad.4281:

The hell. The whole point of confusion for me was to hamper fast attacking classes like ranger. That’s not a bug, that’s a feature!

Maybe one of the devs was playing a ranger and died to confusion or retaliation!

Spot on and is why I’m concerned with this change.

Except this is very hard to do now with our horrible confusion stacking capabilities. With the core specs revamp, we will see EASY stacks of confusion flowing from any Mesmer speccing into Dueling let alone if they’re also condi shatter… I’m actually worried that they’re going to nerf some of our confusion, because on paper, it already looks pretty strong.

They are not changing the basic working of confusion and that means that it will still punish fast-attacking targets disproportionately more than slow-attacking ones.

I don’t think they should change the basic working of confusion. The point of confusion is to damage those spamming attacks willy-nilly. I don’t think slow-attacking opponents should be punished so severely. If you wanna punish them, that’s what we have a million interrupts for. That being said, the base dmg makes up for those enemies who attack slower or not at all, which I think is a big reason why they made this change. i.e. Bosses and mobs in PvE. This also applies to enemy players.

I really like the way this change sounds, but of course, we’ll have to wait and see how the numbers look when they come out.

From this thread here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Opinions-on-new-Confusion/5133889/quote

MailMail.6534:

I’m not into all this number crunching with a lack of information. IN THEORY, I like the way the new confusion will work.

Cons:
-No punishing burst when opponent spams skills[Thus allowing skill spam to continue and possibly weakening its effect on thieves]
-Set amount of damage where current confusion has a pseudo-random damage which can be potentially higher than any other damaging condition in the same amount of time.

It will still be punishing when opponents spam skills. You say this as though dmg on tick is getting removed. Yes, they might nerf the dmg a bit to compensate for the set amount of base dmg, but I see this is an overall buff. Just like torment, stacking it will be severely punishing especially if they are using skills (or moving in the case of Torment).

Hmmm, sounds good in my head. However, you could potentially have insane upkeeps of armors with being able to blast fields with F1-F3. Take into account Alacrity as well. I guess speccing to be really supporting should be a thing, but idk.

We aren’t the only class with little access to blasters, and I don’t think that’s exactly a horrible thing. I just wish we had a dependable blaster other than one that procs 3 seconds after activating. I would be happy with GS3 being one and that’s it.

I look forward to other opinions.

Fay.2357:

MailMail.6534:

idk if I can take the OP seriously. Maybe he isn’t caught up with the updates… Someone help him out. I’m lazy.

Just check the posting history. This person is a chronic poster of utterly absurd complaint threads.

If I could -1 his posts, I would. I think from now on we should just use a “non-response” to posters like this.

There is a lot to complain about with the Devs and their “balancing”. <_< Sure, I’ll give anyone that. However, I wish people would use reason, logic, facts and context more often when creating complaint threads. It would help a lot in fostering helpful dialogue between players of all professions and the devs.

Btw BRAVO to Anet for the hard work they’ve shown in making positive changes to the Mesmer class these last few months.

Evasive Mirror vs Blinding Dissipation:

• EM potentially working with Blurred Frenzy would be interesting. This is yet to be seen as the language on BF is VERY tricky. It’s definitely not a distort. Is it a blur? Or flat out an evasion? Is it a dodge? Does EM work on dodges only or “successful evasions”? I’ve recently been running Feedback in my condi shatter build, and it is pretty successful. If it does work with BF, it’ll raise its stock by A LOT.
• EM is great for mitigating some dmg and dishing some back, but this is only with projectiles. Timing is key. I don’t think using the dodge just for the intent of reflecting is helpful.
• BD will work on multiple enemies and can be timed more precisely due to IP. This also helps a lot to mitigate dmg for your entire team.

Conclusion:

• EM is more offensive, random and selfish. BD is more defensive, strategic and team-oriented.
• I think Blinding Dissipation will tend to be a more consistent and helpful skill in team play if you’re running a shatter-dependent build. And considering that most builds will center around some form of shattering, I think we’ll see BD in use in 65% of builds, EM in 25% and Blade Training in 10% (unless they give this some flavor which I doubt).

idk if I can take the OP seriously. Maybe he isn’t caught up with the updates… Someone help him out. I’m lazy.

ASP.8093:

MailMail.6534:

Keeping my fingers crossed!

Restorative Illusions, Shattered Conditions and Menders were in decent spots with maybe the first needing to be AOE.

I am with you on this.

My modest wishlist is:

• Better Compounding Celerity.
• Flashier Temporal Enchanter (or move it down some tiers and add a new GM).
• A Mender’s Purity alternative for folks who like longer-cooldown heals like Ether Feast. (I’ll probably be rocking MP all day every day, but it doesn’t hurt to have options.)

+1

I’m not into all this number crunching with a lack of information. IN THEORY, I like the way the new confusion will work.

Cons:
-No punishing burst when opponent spams skills[Thus allowing skill spam to continue and possibly weakening its effect on thieves]
-Set amount of damage where current confusion has a pseudo-random damage which can be potentially higher than any other damaging condition in the same amount of time.

It will still be punishing when opponents spam skills. You say this as though dmg on tick is getting removed. Yes, they might nerf the dmg a bit to compensate for the set amount of base dmg, but I see this is an overall buff. Just like torment, stacking it will be severely punishing especially if they are using skills (or moving in the case of Torment).

Keeping my fingers crossed!

Restorative Illusions, Shattered Conditions and Menders were in decent spots with maybe the first needing to be AOE.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Up to you what you do. Sorry you’ve found yourself in an awful predicament. I’m not loaded but if you’re short on gold or something I’ll chip in 20g to help you out.

I can throw in 10g for Witcher as well. This has gotten so embarrassing for him.

I’m still awfully surprised that this debate is going on…

Soooo about that 100g…

Without having read more than the first two posts…

Just because a lot of us vocal “forum folk” love non-power shatter builds does not mean we don’t know how to play it. I’ll say that I am proficient with power shatter. I just choose other play styles because they fit my preference more.

This entire argument within the Mesmer community is old, late and tired. Bring on HoT.

I definitely think MtD would do exceedingly well using Chronomancer. The biggest loss I see here is that of shattered concentration. That being said, using Chrono instead of domination/inspiration/chaos will give the highest dps possible for a condi shatter build. Why? Simple:
Illusionary Reversion & Chronophantasm synergizes extremely well with Sharper Images & Confusing Combatants.

These skills are so “revolutionary” because it helps us to shatter without losing out on 50%+ of our overall dps. The ability to give a full shatter AND keep clones busting out bleeds/confusion is not to be underestimated.

Now, going into Chrono for this dps boost obviously means you take a concession somewhere else. Whether that be team/self sustain (Inspiration), self-defense (Chaos) or boon rip (Domination). It’s hard to say which is best. In fact, I think arguing over which is a pretty fruitless task, but it is my opinion that even with Domination being the “dps” line, you will get more mileage out of Chrono in this regard based simply on those two traits.

I’ll definitely be trying out Chrono/Illusions/Dueling, but I think giving up shattered concentration might be a hard pill to swallow for me.

HEY MESMER FORUM! Sorry I’ve been on a long-ish hiatus as of late. I’ll be back to action after my life calms down in the coming weeks… Now onto my answer:

• I’m not bogged down by taking specific utilities (Blink, Decoy mainly), which allows me to fit into a more specialized role depending on what whacky build I’m trying. Now in terms of optimization, I DO use blink/decoy in my competitive condi shatter build… that being said, you still don’t have the amount of reliance on such utilities as you would if you were using other specs.
• I am typically able to take many more hits due to using a Rabid amulet. The lower health isn’t as big of an issue as people think. Taking more hits means you’re able to have more time to respond to emergency situations.
• I have a lower risk lower reward mentality that is more comfortable for my play style. I like knowing that I can make more mistakes if need be. Also, if I’m facing a glassier spec, I know that I can capitalize on their mistakes more brutally. Basically, I like battles where the longer they go, the more likely I am to win.
• More sources of damage in condi specs means more overall pressure, which I prefer. The flip side is that there’s no such thing as “burst” in a traditional sense. i.e. condi shatters all do significant dmg where as a power shatter’s burst comes with F1 and sometimes F3 (Halting Strike).

Btw, this is ALL from a pvp perspective.

Lastly, I have some GREAT footage of my playing condi shatter in ranked with a 5-man team. Now the hard part is just putting it together. It’s still on my list of gw2 things to do. BE PATIENT WITH CHO!

Ross Biddle.2367:

1. Temporal Fake: 1/2 cast time, Mesmer fires an animated shot that doesn’t land, instead sending the bullet off into the universe. Skill changes to Temporal Shot which lasts for 10s. Temporal Shot re summons the bullet and upon impact blows back the target with incredible force (240 radius effect, max targets 5). Temporal Fake can be cast at any range. 1200 range on Temporal Shot. (So you can effectively prepare this attack, even firing it at one enemy to fake/bait out a defenses, then fire the skill again, even changing targets, to land it.

LOVE this! Let’s not forget that rifle was originally on the table for Mesmer’s first specialization. I’m assuming we’d get that next despite the 2+ year desperate cry for a MH.

It reminds me of a more precise Focus pull. It’s similar but just different enough to make it Rifl-y. I think you’d need to put a marker on the targeted person (either visually or on their bar) so that there’s some counter play to it.

Wolfey.3407:

First let me say, this is NOT what i suggested as a fix, I suggest win X-amount of games.

-snip-

Hopefully, this is just a bandaid while the QA monkeys figure out what we the players actually want…. even though it’s been stated numerous times on these forums and reports…..

This “band-aid” is like the one you have after spending the entire day on water rides at an amusement park: yes, +1 for having a band-aid, but it’s still pretty useless and barely helping the issue…

At least now pvpers can get a key once or maybe twice during our life time!!!

Heavy on Illusions (like without shattering them)
This is just something I’ve ever wanted for the mesmer. A specialization that does NOT shatter its illusions. This one could be really awesome to play. Ways to interact with your illusions, ways to use them for more than just stupid autohitting… all that stuff would be possible.

Just throwing it out there, but it’s hard to buff phantasm builds to the level I think most Mesmers want [in pvp at least]. Unlike other classes that can utilize classic AI builds (Ranger, Necro, Engineer), it would be VERY easy for phantasm builds to be OP in a bursty way considering how low we can get their CDs, boosted health and attack recharge. pSwordsman every 12s says hello.

And yes, turret engis have been very OP for a long time, but the point is that it’s easier to balances turrets than it is illusions. Anet simply makes perplexing choices when it comes what they put energy into…

My mouth is watering at these different specializations!

Just the thought of my mesmer doing a ballet dance move makes me chuckle with anticipation.

See thread here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Game-Create-Your-Own-Specialization

I was going to comment, but it looks like others have tidied things up with the OP.

In conclusion: offhand shield isn’t a game changer, but it does offer some uniquely powerful things in certain situations. I’ll definitely be giving it a try.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Curunen.8729:

Will the 50% torment damage bonus to moving targets apply whether you use a Scepter or not?

I can’t seem to find that information, if it has been shared. If it is the case then surely it is a no-brainer over Sum of all Fears, which according to the specialisation calculator looks like it will have a built in ICD.

I’m planning to use sword/torch in a MtD build with the patch (because sword/torch is way more fun than scepter/torch), so would be interested to know if the torment damage boost will still work even if using sword instead of scepter.

Will apply. Scepter not necessary. No source. Just common sense.

Unless it specifically states “While holding a scepter”, in which case the trait wouldn’t be working while out of the weapon set. Which is inconsistent with other areas of the game trait-wise generally speaking.

Most weapon traits given to Mesmer require you to be holding the weapon in order to reap its benefits (Sword, GS, Scepter, Staff). The other traits simply give extra effects on how the weapon works (Focus, Torch, Pistol). It would actually be an outlier if it worked the way you two describe, since:
1) CD reduction aside, It doesn’t enhance the way scepter works.
2) It doesn’t give you a buff while wielding a scepter.

My assumption is that they gave weird wording and you will actually have to wield a scepter in order to get the 50%+ dmg on tormented movers. I’d love it if they didn’t, but it also wouldn’t be very consistent with Mesmer traits.

Very interesting ideas!