Guild Wars 2

It would be nice to have something of a Trickster/Jester that brought to the forefront the distraction side of Mesmer. With clone-death builds being no more, this is potentially a way to bring them back in some fashion using the new condition, taunt. Note: this is purely conceptual. Testing would need to be done for to suggest appropriate numbers, ICDs etc. My idea is probably wildly OP and outside the realm of possibility…

Hallmarks of the Trickster
Traits

• Minors
  1 Gain Fury when performing a leap finisher
  2 Phantasms gain distortion when they cause taunt.
  3 Phantasms auto attack.
• Adept
  1 Weakness duration increased. Weakness causes confusion.
  2 Shatters don’t effect phantasms.
  3 Signets grant 1-2s of stealth and leaves behind a smoke field.
• Master
  1 Increased crit chance against weakened enemies.
  2 Dagger auto attack by you and illusions will pierce and cause bleed.
  3 Performing a leap finisher grants AOE swiftness and vigor
• Grandmaster
  1 Illusions cause taunt/quickness on crit. (balance nightmare, ICD)
  2 Reduce dmg done to phantasms by X% for every boon on you.
  3 Shatter skills reduce the cool down of clone summoning skills.

Weapon (Dagger)

• 1 Weakness application. Projectile finisher. Low dps.
• 2 Dash towards enemy. AOE bleed. Teleport back to spot, creating a clone near enemy that does auto attack. Leap Finisher.
• 3 Evade away from target, leaving behind a smoke field. Clears immob, cripple and chill.
• 4 Phantasmal Jester that causes taunt (hard to balance probably).
• 5 Swap place with an enemy. Cause Cripple. Leap finisher.

Synergy with other trait lines:

• Domination – Powerblock (weakness on interrupt); Blurred Inscriptions in combination with stealth.
• Dueling – Mistrust combined with Taunt could lead to some serious confusion stacking on interrupts!
• Inspiration – Persisting Images combined with Taunt makes it punishing, but not on the scale of other clone death traits. Illusionary Inspiration with signets.
• Illusions -Sum of All Fears procing torment on 5 stacks of confusion means you have a chain effect of confusion/taunt/weakness/torment if traited properly. Blinding Befuddlement from frequent blinds.
• Plenty of other possible combos that I haven’t even thought of I’m sure.

Overall, the Trickster would lend itself to being more condition, single-target and lock-down focused. It could also be seen as a more focused phantasm trait line since the idea of illusions themselves is based on trickery. Positioning and evasion would be its forms of mitigating damage. No new utilities would be needed as it would buff existing signets.

Omg I just re-read everything I typed, and it seems ridiculously OP. LOL oops sorry guys!

Stormbolt.7293:

EremiteAngel.9765:

well like I said, don’t let me see you guys cry for necro nerfs when we meet in HoT

It feels like they got Reaper just right. Not worthless, not overpowered. It does what it’s supposed to do and has a reasonable number of counters.

Necro has never been OP. In fact, it’s always been one of the lower tier professions, right along with Mesmer!

EremiteAngel.9765:

well…i’m not going to try and change your opinions now…but dont clamour to nerf necros when we meet in HoT

LOL

I really think you’re in the wrong forum. There are definitely classes (guardian for example) that should fear you, but Mesmer is NOT one of them. How about you take you proclamations of strength elsewhere, because as of now, the game is designed in a way where Mesmer is a natural counter to Necromancer no matter what 3 trait lines we take and what 3 trait lines you take.

And the only class Mesmers cry to nerf is Thief. Outside of that, we simply want buffs for ourselves.

EremiteAngel.9765:

MailMail.6534:

EremiteAngel.9765:

Reapers got a 10 second stability uptime on a 16 second cooldown. Reaper skill 3 with traits.

TRY TO INTERRUPT US NOW

You wouldn’t know this, because you’re a necro, but Stability doesn’t tend to be an issue for us either due to all the ways we can strip it. lol Have you ever seen Lich vs Mesmer?

@Ross
Yeah I get it, but if you’re letting conditions land on you as a Mesmer under most circumstances, you’re screwed regardless. But yes, chill is quite the nasty condition on Mesmer. I see more people taking Shattered Conditions than they ever did before.

its a pulsing 3 seconds stability every second for 8 secs.

let me see you strip that every second.

In my experience, the change has made it slightly more difficult than before, but each clone shattering takes away a boon so… And besides, I use feedback in my classic shatter build which also ensures a good amount of safety against lich. Sorry, it’s just not that threatening to me based on my experiences. Necros are usually the first person I try to engage over Mesmer/Thief/Ranger. haha

EremiteAngel.9765:

Reapers got a 10 second stability uptime on a 16 second cooldown. Reaper skill 3 with traits.

TRY TO INTERRUPT US NOW

You wouldn’t know this, because you’re a necro, but Stability doesn’t tend to be an issue for us either due to all the ways we can strip it. lol Have you ever seen Lich vs Mesmer?

@Ross
Yeah I get it, but if you’re letting conditions land on you as a Mesmer under most circumstances, you’re screwed regardless. But yes, chill is quite the nasty condition on Mesmer. I see more people taking Shattered Conditions than they ever did before.

StickerHappy.8052:

MailMail.6534:

Mesmer is a natural counter to Neco. These changes don’t really effect this fact. However, it definitely opened up a different style of play for Necros. Fortunately for Mesmers, we have MUCH better access to condition clear than we’ve ever had despite always having multiple sources of it.

Basically, the Necro vs Mesmer matchup will continue to favor Mesmer, but hey, at least we aren’t a hard counter to your class like someone is to ours…

Chill is really bad on mesmer if I must say so myself.

ANY condition is horrific on a Mesmer lol, but the trait revamp gives us a heck ton more access to condition clear. We can now take Shattered Conditions and Mender’s Purity without totally wrecking our shatter effectiveness (loss of IP). Also, going down Inspiration doesn’t necessarily mean we lose out on as much power like we would currently. We also have the awesome Time Marches On trait in Chronomancer that helps combat this soft CC.

Things are definitely looking up for Mesmer.

Mesmer is a natural counter to Neco. These changes don’t really effect this fact. However, it definitely opened up a different style of play for Necros. Fortunately for Mesmers, we have MUCH better access to condition clear than we’ve ever had despite always having multiple sources of it.

Basically, the Necro vs Mesmer matchup will continue to favor Mesmer, but hey, at least we aren’t a hard counter to your class like someone is to ours…

On Temporal Enchantment:

• This skill needs a rework. Super speed only makes sense on Portal/Veil, but is near useless on Nullfield and pretty tricky to use on Feedback.
• To make up for the above, maybe they could simply add a pulsing stack of confusion. (7 stacks on Null, 8 on Feedback) This wouldn’t be the best for Veil/Port but would be great on the other two.

On Glamours In General

• The idea of a “glamour build” has long since been gone, and I’m not quite sure there is a need to bring them back to their glory.
• With the biggest detractor gone (long CDs), they’ll see more use than ever before. In PvE content, our utilities go through a revolving door depending on circumstance, so nothing will change here. In PvP, I think we’ll see more use. WvW, not too sure, but it looks like better than before. All of the offensive traits have been moved to the Dueling tree.

Zenith.7301:

Debuti.6017:

I cannot understand why everybody is making their statements about the new traits and skills, thinking in 1 vs 1 possibilities.

In pve, which i mostly play, we got almost nothing with new specialization. Shield is useless, traits are all made for pvp encounters, and new wells, except calamity well, none of them is worthy.

Welcome to the mesmer forums. They made mesmer such an insufferable class to play in PvE and large scale WvW.

So basically the majority of mesmers in this forum are duelists/roamers/spvp people.

Very accurate. We often times forget that there are crazy people who actually play Mesmer outside of small-scale PvP situations…

I absolutely LOVE the idea of Mantra of Invisibility. AOE instant cast invisibility. Ahh! The problem is that you’d have to give it a high enough CD to compensate for the fact that you’re getting 2-3 casts.

I think a good passive for Signet of Invisibility would be to go invis for 2s at the end of casting a heal skill. I think invis on start of cast would be OP.

I think they’re simply going to make it a Manipulation, but it’s still fun to speculate and theory craft! haha

ODB.6891:

I’m sorry, but every time I see someone talk about making Time Marches On an adept/master trait, it always seems to be attached to also including it in their favorite trait line instead. That’s the part that seems disingenuous.

Inspiration is not my favorite trait line. Guess I’ve broken your record.

ODB.6891:

Yes, it sucks that they didn’t include any similar movement speed boosts in the existing trait lines as well, but there is absolutely nothing OP about this new trait.

Well, they did include Compounding Celerity, but it sucks. I have never said this trait was OP. I wish people would stop quoting my posts and telling ME that it’s not OP.

ODB.6891:

It doesn’t increase our power, we are still weak against CC…it just helps us move around a lot better.

This is factually wrong on both counts. For a class where positioning is everything, an increase in movement and positioning = more power. Also, did you forget the secondary effect of -25% Cripple, Chilled, Immobilize? With no need for Traveler’s, have you thought about combining this with Melandru? Of course, we’re still very susceptible to hard CC, but this secondary effect is pretty awesome!!

ODB.6891:

At the end of the day, it is nothing that other professions have not had for years now.

This also isn’t true. lol While I think this is exactly something we need, our movement trait is definitely stronger than other movement traits. This is sometimes our problem as a Mesmer community. Instead of saying things that are rooted in bias, we should simply say: “yes, this is a stronger trait, but it needs to be stronger because of X reasons in order to compensate for X reasons, thus bringing overall better balance to all professions.”

You and others have defended Time Marches On wonderfully against players with rabid self-entitlement, but we have to make sure that we’re always attempting to check our bias at the door and argue our case using facts and logic with a tinge of Mesmer flair. When we don’t, it’s easy for others to pick away at our arguments which doesn’t help with Anet already treating us like a forgotten step child for all these years.

I’m more than satisfied with the “something just as good” as of right now!!

Menaka.5092:

The best thing I can say is that, so far, none of them seems mandatory: all the elite specs seem interesting enough to be played by a good amount of people, but not by everyone.

this.

So far Chronomancer/Dragonhunter are tied in the lead with gaining the most, while Mesmer in general has definitely gained the most when you look at our trait revamp.

I’m not sold on Necromancer quite yet. Making them mainly melee characters doesn’t change their obvious weakness to CC. All I see that is buffed is their overall dps, which isn’t that frightening to me. Cool concept though. Definitely more cool than Dragonhunter.

It’s worth pointing out that not all of Inspirations traits are focused on purely support. Some are focused on Phantasms. Some (Compounding Celerity & Restorative Illusions) are purely selfish.

Some should maybe be considered for a rework.

The biggest issue I see here is that people perceive the Minor to be free. However, this also means forgoing something else. Imagine the speed trait not being a Minor but a Master Major. As a result, Chronomancers probably would have had Danger time as GM Minor. I’m sure a lot less people would complain although it probably is a very comparable set up. Just to give an example for another class with a comparable set up:
Would Engineers want to trade Target the Maimed for speed? Maybe some. But most certainly not all.

I’m not saying anything is free. All I’m saying is that it is easier to choose 1 out of 6 trait lines than to choose 1 out of 6 THEN choose 1 out of 3. In reply to your example:
That’s not a comparable set up, because their speed boost is an adept. That’s my entire point: there is NO comparable set up where a profession has a minor trait for a speed boost hence why some people might feel as though our speed boost trait isn’t “on par with other traits”.

@Menaka
While I’d love to contest some of the things you said and bring things back on topic (comparing traited speed boosts between classes), I think we’ve reached a point where further communication won’t lead to mutual understanding, and that’s ok. I respect your opinion.

There’s ALOT of great ideas in that Nightmare specialization!!

I also am intrigued by the “corruption” utilities. Great creative work peeps.

Menaka.5092:

MailMail.6534:

• In terms of traits, Mesmer now has the easiest access to a 25% speed increase. This comes packaged with a fantastic side-effect of reducing some CC conditions. This perceived problem could be alleviated if they made it an Adept/Master trait. i.e. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Small-Request-Better-Compounding-Celerity/first#post5063503

so we’re to the point where picking an entire traitline is the “easiest access”

Yes. You do know how the revamped trait system will work in the future, correct? Shady rhetorical questions aside, let me ask a real question: which is easier to do, choose a minor trait or an Adept/Master/Grandmaster trait? I guess I wasn’t done with rhetorical questions…

Menaka.5092:

MailMail.6534:

• Allegedly, S. Inspiration will see a speed boost of some sorts, bringing it on par with other classes.

The fix to the signet only makes sense… what’s the point on having aegis or might off combat? Swiftness off combat makes sense. And our signets are still in a horrible place considering how good are signets on other classes.

I don’t know why you’re asking me that question. S. Inspiration should definitely be reworked to incorporate a consistent speed boost, and I haven’t said otherwise. You’re right though. Our signets aren’t in a very good place at all unless you’re running a full signet build, and that’s pretty unacceptable in my book.

Menaka.5092:

MailMail.6534:

• Overcompensating just because Mesmer has been in a bad place for 2+ years does not make sense for the health of the game and only continues the trend of bad balancing.

I fail to see how this is “overcompensating”. The trait makes sense in chronomancy and you only get access to it by picking the elite spec.

Want to make sure all classes are balanced? Let’s wait and see what the other classes get in their elite specialization, let’s wait to play the game after the changes, then we’ll be in the position to say if this trait is so “OP” as a few people seem to believe.

Maybe you missed the context in my post. On second thought, obviously you did since you’re repeating some things I said verbatim while ignoring some things that you agree with. I never said our trait was OP. I think it’s perfectly fine, but if the issue is that it’s not exactly on par with other speed traits, I can see the rationale. That last bullet was a general statement about the attitude some Mesmers are slipping into having, which is understandable but still problematic.

While these ridiculous guardians and warriors are being pro-whiners, I can at least understand how someone could constructively criticize our new movement trait. Instead of playing the “Woe Is Our Mesmer Class” card, I try to offer some potential solutions instead.

You’re right though, it is far to early to get into serious heated debates about balancing. It’s all [fun & addictive] speculation until HoT finishes downloading on our computers.

Weapons Guardian >> Mesmer
I think shield will work mostly in niche situations, specifically some interrupt builds and builds leaning on the side of support over dmg. Don’t get me wrong, it’ll be awesome in those situations, but it doesn’t offer much variability. Guardian ranged weapon is a big +1 for guards, and opens up different options.

Utilities Guardian = Mesmer
With the guardian slightly in the lead. Wells will see play in PvE & WvW content. Traps could potentially see use in all formats.

New Core Mechanic Mesmer > Guardian
Definitely Mesmer. There’s literally so many insane combos you can do with continuum shift. Yes, there’s counter play involved, but that isn’t a bad thing in the slightest bit, because in theory, most skills should have some amount of counter play. I thought 2/3 of the new virtues were somewhat underwhelming.

Traits Mesmer >>> Guardian
Blown away. Guardian now has more condi coverage, but the chronomancer has way more synergy with our core traits.

Chronomancer was hindered by the choice of another OH instead of a MH. Otherwise, Chronomancer definitely gained a lot more. If anything, it’s hard for the guardian to theoretically gain more when they’re already at the top of the food chain.

Ansau.7326:

MailMail.6534:

Ansau.7326:

Warriors have +25% speed in an Adept trait and nobody cares.
Eles, rangers, thieves and necros have +25% speed in signet passive and nobody cares.
Engis have perma swiftness in an Adept trait and nobody cares.

Mesmers get +25% speed in a grandmaster minor trait and everybody loses their mind.

kitten human logic…

Well to be honest, the logic you give here doesn’t make sense either. The biggest difference between our speed boost and that of the ones you listed above is that other classes have to make a choice or concession to achieve such a boost.

While I still think there’s nothing innately OP about it, I would have preferred if it took the place of Compounding Celerity or was inside the Inspiration trait line. It does make sense though with the theme of Chronomancy. Honestly, it’s not that big of a deal to me…

I wasn’t discussing if they’re easier or more difficult to take.
-snip-
Now that mesmers get what everybody has, some see the end of Tyria is coming with the OPness of mesmers with +25% speed.

My point is that these two bold statements are not mutually exclusive. That is to say, talking about one means you have to take into account the other. Otherwise, both statements are pretty unsubstantial. I’m actually on your side when it comes to this issue, but it’s important to communicate in a way as to not let detractors pick away at your claims by accusing you of bias or deceit. It’s also a bit disingenuous to say our trait is “the same” as everyone else’s when it’s clearly not.

Facts:

• In terms of traits, Mesmer now has the easiest access to a 25% speed increase. This comes packaged with a fantastic side-effect of reducing some CC conditions. This perceived problem could be alleviated if they made it an Adept/Master trait. i.e. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Small-Request-Better-Compounding-Celerity/first#post5063503
• Allegedly, S. Inspiration will see a speed boost of some sorts, bringing it on par with other classes.
• Overcompensating just because Mesmer has been in a bad place for 2+ years does not make sense for the health of the game and only continues the trend of bad balancing.

eta – instead of having a sword-measuring contest on which profession has been treated poorly the most, we should focus on solutions to making sure all professions are balanced. In politics, we call this “reaching across the aisle”.

+1 to the OP here. Very well thought out.

Ansau.7326:

Warriors have +25% speed in an Adept trait and nobody cares.
Eles, rangers, thieves and necros have +25% speed in signet passive and nobody cares.
Engis have perma swiftness in an Adept trait and nobody cares.

Mesmers get +25% speed in a grandmaster minor trait and everybody loses their mind.

kitten human logic…

Well to be honest, the logic you give here doesn’t make sense either. The biggest difference between our speed boost and that of the ones you listed above is that other classes have to make a choice or concession to achieve such a boost.

While I still think there’s nothing innately OP about it, I would have preferred if it took the place of Compounding Celerity or was inside the Inspiration trait line. It does make sense though with the theme of Chronomancy. Honestly, it’s not that big of a deal to me…

I’ve only read the OP, but I’m sure there are some fantastic ideas out there already! I’ll try to get some replies to previous posts when I can. Here’s my idea of the best lockdown build I think we have access to:

http://dulfy.net/2015/05/02/gw2-specialization-calculator-that_shaman/#profession=mesmer&traits=“Domination”,1,4,9-“Chaos”,3,6,7-“Dueling”,1,4,9

With sword/focus/Staff of course! Blink, MoD and Arcane Thievery. Probably Pack Runes and doom/energy sigils!

I feel like all of your threads in this forum should be stickied.

Also, why are you not a forum specialist yet? Inquiring minds would LOVE to know.

HELLO FRANDS! <3

Malignant Inscriptions (aka Signets) is still one one of my FAVORITE builds to use due to its unique mixture of active and passive play. It’s representative of Lyssa herself in being a dual goddess, and can be tricky to play effectively. That being said, I think it’s an appropriate time to start theory crafting on how to keep the essence of this build alive now that we have a better picture of the revamped trait system and our specialization.

My idea for a signet interrupt build is here:
http://dulfy.net/2015/05/02/gw2-specialization-calculator-that_shaman/#profession=mesmer&traits=“Domination”,1,5,9-“Chronomancer”,2,6,7-“Dueling”,3,6,9

Utilities: S. Ether, S. Midnight, S. Domination, Boon Strip (Null Field vs Arcane Thievery depending on enemy comp), Gravity Well.
Amulet: Rampager
Runes: Strength
Sigils: Sword/Pistol (Battle/Paralyzation) + Staff (Strength/Doom)

Keep in mind that this is all theory on my part, but based on my tinkering with cele signets, I really believe there is a chance for hybrid Mesmer to be a thing thanks to our ability to trait into 3 entire trees. Here’s some key hallmarks of the build I’ve theorized:

Interrupts For Daze

• You have a good mix of hard and soft lockdown in this build.
• Remember that signets is mostly a single-target build with AOE dmg being the icing on the cake.
• If you’re good at interrupting on pistol, you’ll be able to get great mileage out of the pistol trait.
• Increased stun duration means you’re able to get off your “burst” rotation while on sword/pistol.
• Spreading Power Block, Slow and Weakness against enemy team is a soft lockdown, making your AOE interrupts especially devastating (Gravity Well, Chaos Storm).
• Ummm hello Continuum Split/Shift!!

Why Rampagers Work

• The high crit chance synergizes extremely well with this build more so than I see in any other. Combine this with baseline IE, and you have a lot of crits for…
• Might stacking while on Staff thanks to Strength Sigil/Rune.
• Confusion/Bleed stacks from Staff and pDuelist.
• Domination minor traits via Vulnerability giving you power increases.
• ~90% crit chance against Slowed enemies.
• “Oh, but rampagers is so glassy!” I hear you say, but any build utilizing distortion on signet use will mitigate a lot of damage. As with any signet build, the longer an engagement lasts, the more likely you are to win the fight.

The two obvious and most concerning weaknesses I see in this build are obvious:
1) Lack of clone death traits in a phantasm hybrid build means AOE will be an extreme damper on your overall dps.
2) Rampager runes means you will hit like a wet noodle at the beginning of your engagement. It takes time for the might stacking and interrupts to boost your overall dps.

Despite its glaring weaknesses (which Mesmer build doesn’t have these? lol), I think this is a great start. I’d love to hear some constructive criticism on my choices here. I also thought heavily about switching Chrono out for Chaos for better boon upkeep and survivability, but decided I preferred the Slow application to better land interrupts which leads to higher bursts of dps. My build using Chaos instead is here: http://dulfy.net/2015/05/02/gw2-specialization-calculator-that_shaman/#profession=mesmer&traits=“Domination”,1,5,9-“Chaos”,2,6,7-“Dueling”,3,6,9

Better yet, how about you Signet users give your own take on how to evolve this unique play style!

I think the point is that they have different synergies that work well within the same trait line as well as other trait lines available to Mesmer:

• Clone Management (chronophantasm, illusion reversion)
• CD management (alacrity via shatters or Well of Recall)
• Soft CC (slow traits)

I think they did an excellent job with this trait line in respect to quality in all game modes.

edited to add: this was mainly in response to Quadox and NiceNikeShoe. I mean to say that I disagree that there’s inconsistency within the Chronomancy line in terms of synergy. I think Seize the Moment is great as is if it gives 1-4s of quickness.

It would make NO sense if you interrupted someone (in a 1v1 situation) and didn’t have the effect applied to the interrupted enemy as well. This isn’t how I assumed it worked, but I guess I wouldn’t put it past Anet. I half-kid… It doesn’t state anywhere that 1 stack is inflicted under any circumstance, so I assume it’s 2 stacks for the interrupted enemy as well.

Granted, this will be far more useful for a MtD Shatter then a Power Shatter,

Calling it right now: MtD condition or hybrid shatter will potentially be our strongest spec. You heard it here first. The sheer amount of flexibility and condi coverage with shattering or clone AAs equals win-win in most cases. Add in some interrupts, and you have quite the nasty spec!!

Real options and lots of possibilities to create diverse/unique builds that may not all be equally effective, but likely much more so then ever before!

We have Lyssa herself (aka Robert) to thank for all the variety we will be getting for Mesmer builds!! As the dual goddess of beauty and chaos, we have surely endured 2+ years of pain, but wow does her benevolence shine brightly for those Mesmers who have been patient!!!

3×2 = 6. You made this sound more complicated than it actually is. In the example you give, all enemies (A-F) would simply have 6 stacks of confusion on them.

Furthermore, does the trait apply confusion to the interrupted foe as well. It must do, otherwise it would be a useless skill in a 1v1 scenario.
Do you think this is what is meant by the skill fact and do you think this is how they intend for it to work?

Yes. The interrupted foe is within the radius, so obviously they would receive the confusion as well.

Good job on the theory crafting here. I guess there’s some hope for phantasm builds, but at the end of every HoT day, every Mesmer will be needing to incorporate shatters and interrupts more so than they did before.

Levetty.1279:

We finally get rid of the Guardian messing up the thread and bringing it off topic and a Warrior jumps in.

The two heavy classes coming to Mesmer forum to complain about something being too strong, whats next a theif popping in to say Mesmer’s have too much stealth?

This is why the balance is in the state its in.

Your use of Well of Precognition was super effective. I’m totally expecting a thief to come in here next.

Hey Juba. You want to know why Mesmer got baseline traits and Warrior didn’t? Because Mesmer has been severely under-powered and Warrior hasn’t. Additionally, those traits were made baseline in order to give Mesmer increased build variety. Our trait system and choice of utilities made every selection an extremely painful trade off. Other classes might have similar issues but their trade offs aren’t as extreme.

Besides, I think this might be the wrong thread to discuss Warrior/Mesmer comparisons. How about we make a new thread similar to the new Dragon Hunter vs Chronomancer thread???

If you want the highest burst available, then you take Illusions, Dueling and Domination. Chronomancer appears to offer an alternative route to sustained dps and efficient skill management. That’s where it shines, but here are some things you lose out on:

• Condition removal via torch trait. A lot of classic shatter varieties don’t often taken condi clear. I definitely don’t, and I know others who don’t as well. This means I get an extra utility slot for some flavor, i.e. extra dps via Feedback.
• Shattered Strength in combination with Compounding power guarantees that you have consistent bursting capabilities.
• Illusionist Celerity > Alacrity in terms of shattering (however, Alacrity also helps your actual shatter CDs).
• Fragmentation gives two valuable things that you can’t get anywhere else: the reflect on distortion (why take evasive mirror when you an take the clearly more powerful Blinding dissipation trait?! :O) and imbued diversion will be instantly more powerful for shatter builds. The useless retal on F2 might get a rework. 10% crit chance on MW is consistent unlike needing slow for a higher crit chance on your burst.

Now, with those last three bullet points, it could be argued that Chrono can give dmg buffs via the slow traits. Also, you can make up for illusionist celerity with alacrity and the illusions reversion traits. However, you can’t take both sets of these traits, meaning you’ll make the trade off on at least one of them.

I don’t mean to downplay Chrono’s effectiveness. I implore everyone to try it out. Chronomancer offers some potentially great stuff that is undeniably AWESOME for shatter builds like Time Catches Up, Flow of Time, Time Marches On and Seize the Moment.

Note: my opinion is based on theory. Everything is up in the air. We don’t know exactly what will be effective until HoT is released, but speculation is fun!

maha.7902:

actually get out and play a game besides GW2 and you’ll see that there are games with gameplay on par or superior to it, and LoL is one of them.

I’d rather watch paint dry than play LoL. The acronym for their game is appropriate.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

So nobody’s concerned with Chronomancer being so kittening powercreep and mandatory?

Not in the least kittenronomancer is a great specialization, but there are plenty of alternative Mesmer builds that are just as strong if not stronger:

• Dom Due Chaos interrupt
• Dom Duel Illusions power shatter
• Duel Illusions Chaos condi shatter

It’s all speculation, but I think going into Chronomancer will means less overall dps in exchange for higher skill management (alacrity, clones, speed) and Slow application.

Mattmatt.4962:

Fact:
Shatter mesmer is currently more than fine

Well golly…!

/thread

Zenith.7301:

I think wells are gonna end up being the new Churning Earth. People are gonna be excited until they realize that like Dragon Tooth from ele scepter it will never land on someone with a clue.

Wells will see a lot of potential play in WvW as well as PvE. It takes more skill and coordination to use them in PvP, but like I’ve always said, wells and similar AOE skills help to push people away from points. Either they dodge it (which means you know when they’re using 1 of their dodges) or they avoid the point altogether. How is this not a win-win situation?

Besides, like Sticker said, we have plenty of tools to keep people in place.

eta -

Yes Sticker, that’s exactly my point. People are getting up in arms about speculation. It seems like somewhat a waste of energy. I’m just enjoying the changes, taking them at face value and giving constructive criticism only when absolutely needed.

Continuum shift alone make chronomancer way stronger than Mesmer … who is already fine, who is in a solid spot with all incoming baseline trait …. So basically something stronger than something strong is balanced #legit

While I can always count on Mesmers crying about how unfair everything is, I can equally count on people crying about how OP Mesmer is/was/will-be. Your statement is wrought with a lack of knowledge of the Mesmer profession and also lack of facts to back up otherwise empty speculation.

Me Games Ma.8426:

For the well trait I could also think of something like: “Every tick you stand inside a well decreases all wells cooldowns by 4%”

That would be good in addition to the resistance at the end of the ticking.

process execution.8014:

MailMail.6534:

Actually, instead of All’s Well That Ends Well removing conditions at all, they should give Resistance as to not step on the toes of Null Field. I don’t know the numbers on other skills giving Resistance, but 4s would be a start.

Wow I really like this idea, or perhaps a pulsing effect while the well is active. It’s a great fit thematically (pausing the effect of conditions while in the well) but still inferior to an explicit condi-clear, ensuring that skills and traits like Null Field/MoResolve/Mender’s Purity remain as viable alternatives.

Maybe a pulsing 1s ending in a 4s Resistance? That would be nice. I don’t know. The name “All’s Well That Ends Well” is so good I think they should leave the pulsing out and just give kitten Resistance at the very end. It’s definitely less reliable, but the wells focus on timing for a reason.

I’ve never had any interest in playing that game. It looks horrible compared to gw2. But my goodness their promotional videos are FANTASTIC!!!

Actually, instead of All’s Well That Ends Well removing conditions at all, they should give Resistance as to not step on the toes of Null Field. I don’t know the numbers on other skills giving Resistance, but 4s would be a start.

Also, I think it’s worth noting that there will still be viable builds outside of Chronomancer. Going down this line has obvious trade offs. You will be dishing out overall less dps due to not being able to take all of Domination, Illusions and Dueling. You also lose out on self-sustain since you won’t be taking both Inspiration and Chaos unless you are entirely a bunker/support build.

I’m very optimistic about these changes!!

apharma.3741:

All nice ideas but what I’d rather see is the precision aspect removed and sword skills deal bonus damage to targets with no boons.

-20% CD, Sword skills do 50% more damage to boonless targets.

+1

/thread

Minor

• Time Splitter – Gain access to continuum split/shift which allows you to revert to an earlier point in time.
  —- This has been discussed a lot on the forums. A lot of counterplay. A lot of potential. It should be juicy.
• Flow of Time – Gain alacrity when you shatter. (1s)
  —- They are obviously being careful about the time on this as it could become insanely broken with slight tweaks. I think they should either increase this to 2s OR bump up Improved Alacrity to 50%.
• Time Marches On – You move 25% faster. The duration of incoming movement-impairing conditions is reduced by 25%. (Cripple. Chilled, Immobilize)
  —- PRAISE LYSSA FOR THE BLESSINGS THAT SHE HAS THUS BESTOWED UPON US WRETCHED HEATHENS!

Adept

• Time Catches Up – Activating a shatter gives your illusions Super Speed
  —- ooooo I love this! This will help Clones to reach their target quicker. I like this instead of the idea I had about clones being buffed via toughness, stability etc, because it still keeps the counterplay there since our bursts are so deadly.
• Delayed Reactions – Interrupting a foe slows them. (3s of Slow)
  —- We deserve not these continued blessings from Lyssa.
• All’s Well that Ends Well – Wells remove conditions from allies when they end. (1 condition)
  —- This is the cutest gw2 skill name I’ve ever seen!! That being said, I earnestly think the devs should bump this up to 2 conditions at the end. Removing 1 condition at the end of the well does NOT line up with their idea of the ending being a “burst” of support/effect. Considering you have to wait in an AOE for 3 seconds, I don’t think 2 conditions is too much to ask for. There’s still a lot of counter play to wells. If it remains just 1 condition, no one will ever take it, especially when in competition with the other two adepts.

Master

• Illusionary Reversion – Gain a clone after you activate a shatter skill.
  —- As the dual faced goddess of beauty and chaos, Lyssa tends to curse us, but in return, she always blesses those who wait patiently.
• Improved Alacrity – Alacrity applied to you lasts longer. (33%)
  —- Either this should be buffed to 50% OR Flow of Time should be buffed to 1.5-2s.
• Danger Time – Gain additional critical hit chance against slowed enemies. (30%)
  —- Awesome synergy within the chrono line for an interrupt. Notice how you can easily go condition interrupt more so than you could before now with the on crit condis.

Grandmaster

• Lost Time – Every 3rd critical hit will slow your target. (2s of Slow)
  —- Yasss yaaasss!!! Very good synergy with earlier slow traits.
• Chronophantasma – Your phantasms respawn the first time they are shattered.
  —- sitting at the alter of Lyssa
• Seize The Moment – Gain quickness for each illusion you shatter. (1s of Quickness)
  —- Not good enough to compete with the other two traits. Very few niche situations where this is better. I guess maybe it’d be good in mantra builds, but even then, I’d value the other two traits more. If they made the quickness AOE, it would buff Mesmers in PvE content.

Overall, I am VERY happy with this specialization!! It adds to both shatter builds and interrupt builds very nicely. It’s a great line for skill management and CC via slow. Of course, taking this means less dps/sustain than if you took another tree, but that’s how alternatives should work.

Literally the only disappointing traits were the All’s Well That Ends Well trait and Seize The Moment. I understand why they are being conservative on the alacrity numbers, but I’d rather them buff them a tiny bit than have the entire mechanic be underwhelming right from the start. I mean, it’s not like they have any problem “hot-fixing” aka nerfing our skills/traits anyway!

THANKS ANET! <3

I cannot stop laughing at how cute/cheesy the names are!! My favorite is, “All’s Well That Ends Well” Thanks for giving us these upon request. I’m sure the forums will start the critiquing process. My thoughts in my next post.

StickerHappy.8052:

Sebrent.3625:

Team up with another mesmer and use their portal … there’s one option.

Mesmer portal bomb:

• One mesmer drops portal … runs to drop exit.
• Other mesmers summon illusions on some random mob and F5 shatter
• Mesmer drops exit.
• Other mesmers portal in and unleash chaos
• Other mesmers teleport back to safety via F5 shatter.

Giggle.

Interesting idea, but this requires work, and another teammate who needs to do specific stuff, I was more in talking bout solo q pvp pugs.

Portal requires work and also isn’t “viable” in solo q. There’s some crazy strong stuff you can do with the F5 shatter. On the flip side, I’m glad that it has counter play to it. How much counterplay, we don’t know exactly yet.

Directed at the general forum: speculation speculation speculation. It’s driving you Mesmers crazy! You know what they say about those who “assume”.

Fay.2357:

Yeah, considering the amount of damage these traps are able to unload, and the amount of CC that the class has (ring of warding, gs5, bow 5, dragon hunter elite), I think it’s absurd how they’re considering removing the float from gravity well.

This is my main thought. Them worrying about our float seems less justifiable after seeing the guardian skills.

Comparisons aside, I think the skill is fine and appropriate. I don’t think this will effect most of anything except for PU builds which exclusively relies on stealth. I’ve never had issues with being revealed before on my power builds, except when I make the mistake of revealing myself.

Maybe it’s just me, but I’m not seeing a lot to complain about right now. I’ll patiently wait to see how things turn out.

F5 looks like it’s going to be extremely rewarding to those who use it skillfully. We’re also going to see a heck of a lot of synergy with our shatter traits. This is unprecedented for our class. I’m very happy with the direction of Mesmer right now.

Chronomancer is just the icing on the cake, as we see a lot of strong improvements even without the specialization.

People are also not realizing that we might get a well trait that would reduce the CDs and give an additional buff.

Usually, AOEs like this help to deter enemies from sitting on a point. It’s one reason why Nullfield/Feedback are strong Mesmer utilities when facing particular enemy compositions. Very underrated for pvp use imo. Wells will be the same.

While we have competitive slots for pvp, that doesn’t make non Blink/Decoy utilities horrible in and of themselves.

All traits don’t need to be reworked just because they aren’t effective in pvp. As apvp purist, I’m extremely happy that they’ve given us a lot of attention in terms of traits, but it’s no denying that Mesmer has been pushed out of PvE even more than before based on speculation.

That being said, here’s the traits I think are underwhelming:

• Compounding Celerity - This makes no sense. Swiftness isn’t as effective during battle as it is while… traveling from point A to point B. Having swiftness tied to clones is simply bad mechanics due to this fact.
• Illusionary Inspiration IF the CD is as large as kitten …
• Mirror of Anguish - has always been overshadowed for me. I would like it better if the CD was a bit lessoned, and it included mirroring conditions every so often as well.
• Chaotic Transference - I could only see this being used if Staff isn’t being used in a condition build. And that’s somewhat unlikely. Sword/pistol scepter/torch? idk But most condi builds use Staff and most condi builds using staff will take the staff CD. I think either up the % to 15 or change it completely to add synergy to another build.

tobascodagama.2961:

Yeah, you guys are soooooooo oppressed. Better get Amnesty International in here ASAP.

LOL

Be nice everyone!!