Guild Wars 2

Laraley.7695:

There’s always going to be people crying, but there is difference between high risk builds and just too much damage around. And actually no, not all specs are on par with other classes. I honestly don’t understand how people are fine with leaving broken things in game. Everyone also gained a lot of passives. I dunno, but I just can’t see anything skilled about mesmer bursting someone from stealth.

I agree, traits (and skills) that promote passive play are not a positive change.

Tbh I don’t think it’s necros that make pvp unfun as you phrased it. I seem to struggle way more with burning and learned (the hard way) that it needs to be removed asap.

It did take my thief a long while to kill off a tanky terrormancer though, had to run and hide a few times just to live through it. But I still wouldn’t call for nerfs until I get the hang of all the changes. And the best way to do this would be to try out every profession and a few builds for each.

All I can say for now is that thief is way too squishy atm and dies to pretty much anything.

I went from a full zerk DA/CS/Trickery (pre-patch) to DA/SA/Trickery with Marauder amulet and I’ve never felt so squishy in my life. Time to indeed try out S/D as suggested by some of you here. I hope it will increase my chances of survival.

Laraley.7695:

Maris.3164:

Eaglebach.7593:

If we follow the logic of this thread, then some class must have that “Ascended warhorn” as its new weapon. Eles need to suck it up and take one for the team.

On the other hand, thief should get warhorn so that they can blast their own smokescreen.

Because warhorn is such a stealthy weapon :P I can blast my own smokescreen just fine with a shortbow and less noise^^

Also, thieves seem to be getting a staff http://imgur.com/a/cIOW3

I think people take the concept art too seriously. I really doubt they would give two professions the same weapon and it’s confirmed that rangers are getting a staff.

If you look at the thief specialization image then the datamined staff skin (I think it’s the second staff skin) you’ll notice it is indeed the same staff the thief is holding in the concept art. Also revenant seems to be getting a shield with Glint specialization, just as Chronomancer is getting a shield. I don’t think it matters that two professions are getting the same weapon, the skills and themes are all different anyway.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3aug92/datamining_upcoming_features_from_the_june_22/

Chokolata.1870:

I think its a deliberate decision to make builds more extreme. If you go DPS then you are all out dps. If you are a bunker then you are an all out bunker. If you want to be a bruiser, cool, but then your damage takes a significant hit.

If you look at every profession’s base health and defense mechanics it isn’t really fair. Some professions are still squishier than others or hit harder with less effort even if both are full dps. And for some professions, bunker is not an option (thief and mesmer for instance), just as some classes don’t have viable condition options. Forcing people to choose between bunker and full dps is not a smart move in my opinion, it gets boring really fast and kills diversity.

Personally I think what we need is more viable builds for every profession, diversity and equality in base health or at least some tweaks. Here’s to hoping things will even out after HoT release, though I have faith Anet will get things in order eventually.

PS: I don’t think I’m going to bring thief to pvp again until something is done about the current situation. Hitting like a truck is not skillful play or fun, nor is it fun when someone sneezes in your direction and you drop dead.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health

EDIT: spelling errors.

Everybody hits like a truck now it seems to me. As a thief I was resorted to ranging a group fight and still got a good chunk of my health chipped off without anyone specifically targeting me, forcing me to stealth and run away. A terrormancer’s Shroud 4 as well as torment pretty much did it for me.

I tried cele ele D/D after and fared much better, though I wasn’t quite as tanky as I used to be and couldn’t hold my own 2v1 (which is good ofc). Also I saw a thief taken down by two Heartseekers. I didn’t have the time to even hit him before he was down.

I played one pvp game as thief yesterday and it was awful. I could go nowhere near the bigger fight because any random flying debree could kill me. I went down to 50% health from a terrormancer’s shroud’s Life transfer alone I also fought him 1v1 later on their point and it took ages to kill him. I had to hide and heal myself so many times…

Second game I tried celestial ele. I was fine through the whole game, no problem though I wasn’t quite as tanky as I used to be (which is good). A thief from the other team went down to my teammate’s heartseeker x2. I literally looked away for 2 seconds (or less even) and then the thief was already down.

I asked them via whisper what happened and he explained to me how little it took to kill him. He also said he was already tired of playing thief after 20 games and he felt like paper

Eaglebach.7593:

If we follow the logic of this thread, then some class must have that “Ascended warhorn” as its new weapon. Eles need to suck it up and take one for the team.

On the other hand, thief should get warhorn so that they can blast their own smokescreen.

Because warhorn is such a stealthy weapon :P I can blast my own smokescreen just fine with a shortbow and less noise^^

Also, thieves seem to be getting a staff http://imgur.com/a/cIOW3

My sympathies to all of you who main ele. Warhorn is like… The last weapon anyone wants to use. I was really expecting mainhand sword for eles but sure doesn’t look like it now. Shame.

New LA is breathtaking and seems so spacious too. Also I loved the new jumping puzzle!

PowerBottom.5796:

the dps is high atm, cuz everyone is running full DMG…. The meta will even out, especially in competetive play, cuz there are very strong defensive options as well (Shoutguard with clerics, Shoutbow, Water/Arcane/Earth-Ele etc.)

People don’t traditionally run full dmg in WvW yet I see a post about the dmg changes above yours. Something is off.

Gabriell.4856:

Maris.3164:

Obviously the OP does not play thief.

Look, a thief who camps in stealth isn’t doing anything for their team. The counterplay is super easy and doesn’t require Lock on or Sic em. All it requires is playing smart and staying focused.

There are pretty much two things you should expect when a thief stealths: A. they stealth and run away (you’ll know they ran off when you’re out of combat again). B. They’re going in for a backstab, so don’t just stand there cursing to yourself and move. Spam your skills around you. Make it hard and dangerous for them to land the backstab.

Shadow refuge. You can see the aoe right? You see the little house symbol on top? That’s where the thief is. If he moves out of it he’s revealed. Go spam your skills on top of it and they’ll either go down or move out of it. Or if you play a hambow war, knock them out of it.

Even though you can’t see them, you can still hit them. Stealth is not invulnerability which is by far stronger, making it impossible to interrupt a stomp for instance. Thief and necro are the only ones without access to invulnerability and what does the necromancer have again? That’s right, Death shroud, a second health bar. So what does the thief have? STEALTH.

If they nerfed stealth, they would have to buff thieves otherwise, and trust me… If you struggle with thieves now, you would cry even more after any buffs that would compensate stealth nerfs. It’s how the class was meant to be played.

Roll a thief and try it out in pvp. You’ll notice it’s not as OP as you thought it was. Furthermore, you should read the whole thread on the profession changes before you deem thief OP. Other classes are going to get buffed as well.

“Spam your skills around you”
-Thief looks at you and think you’re an idiot for hitting air.

“Shadow Refuge. That’s where the thief is”
Double dodge will avoid all if not most damage. You can also use SB or Sword evade if you aim it correctly.

" Thief and necro are the only ones without access to invulnerability"
Vamp runes say hi! Nothing carries a player more than stealth and invul.

Obviously you do not play a thief.

Yes… I play a thief. I don’t use vamp runes though. Besides, we were talking about profession mechanics, not runes. Also I used to run D/P, not sword. Though now I might start using it. I use shadow refuge as a last resort (if not reviving), by the time I use it I’m lucky to have one dodge left.

I really don’t know what you’re aiming at here, I was giving the OP advice against thief so he would stop complaining about stealth.

They might give us rifle at first but after the flood of ‘thief rifle OP’ they’d turn it into a warhorn. Or a trident. I have to admit I’m a bit nervous here.

stof.9341:

I want the princess wand :’(

No.

But seriously speaking, if we’re not getting the rifle then I don’t know. I dislike most mace skins (please no) and torch doesn’t suit the theme of thief imo. Melee staff maybe, or offhand sword? Axe? I don’t see why we would get weapons like focus and scepter.

Sounds like thieves and guardians might be the strongest contenders in this type of game mode. As a thief I would probably just hide and wait for the other players to kill each other. I don’t know, it could be a fun distraction from all the other stuff in game.

Xorin.9260:

Not a complaint, necessarily, but for those who bought Deluxe or Ultimate, this is giving us two character slots. I’ve already got 9 slots: one per profession and one key farmer. I liked getting the extra slot with the upper two editions for the Revenant, but another one is not exactly useful for me. Perhaps there could be an option for something else for those of us who picked up Deluxe or Ultimate?

Or you could do what I do with extra character slots: mules. Half of my characters are just hoarding my things and materials

I know how you feel Jaymee. My boyfriend has received 6 precursor drops from MF all in all, including expensive ones like the Legend and he only ever threw in rares. On top of that he gets a fairly priced exotic usually once a week and he’s sitting on top of 3 Tequatl hoards.

I have only ever received one precursor, Venom. It was worth 20g at the time. Usually when I get an exotic it’s an underwater weapon. I have one Tequatl’s hoard and I’ve been doing Tequatl nearly everyday after the update. I have 9 fractal skins, 3 of them are underwater skins and the first one I ever received was the speargun skin. I don’t throw stuff in the mystic forge, I don’t have that kind of luck. At best I’d probably get Rage, after throwing in thousands of gold. So… waiting for precursor hunt

Obviously the OP does not play thief.

Look, a thief who camps in stealth isn’t doing anything for their team. The counterplay is super easy and doesn’t require Lock on or Sic em. All it requires is playing smart and staying focused.

There are pretty much two things you should expect when a thief stealths: A. they stealth and run away (you’ll know they ran off when you’re out of combat again). B. They’re going in for a backstab, so don’t just stand there cursing to yourself and move. Spam your skills around you. Make it hard and dangerous for them to land the backstab.

Shadow refuge. You can see the aoe right? You see the little house symbol on top? That’s where the thief is. If he moves out of it he’s revealed. Go spam your skills on top of it and they’ll either go down or move out of it. Or if you play a hambow war, knock them out of it.

Even though you can’t see them, you can still hit them. Stealth is not invulnerability which is by far stronger, making it impossible to interrupt a stomp for instance. Thief and necro are the only ones without access to invulnerability and what does the necromancer have again? That’s right, Death shroud, a second health bar. So what does the thief have? STEALTH.

If they nerfed stealth, they would have to buff thieves otherwise, and trust me… If you struggle with thieves now, you would cry even more after any buffs that would compensate stealth nerfs. It’s how the class was meant to be played.

Roll a thief and try it out in pvp. You’ll notice it’s not as OP as you thought it was. Furthermore, you should read the whole thread on the profession changes before you deem thief OP. Other classes are going to get buffed as well.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Maris.3164:

Kousetsu.1627:

This one made me giggle, a teef that died to a single lb2 cast when he came to my homepoint and was put in a wolf fear without using any cd’s whatsoever.

Exactly why people tend to hate on rangers. You can kill a player with one skill from afar without any effort put into it whatsoever.

3 skills
1.Fear
2. fear damages on wolf > into leap
3. RF vs a target not Defending himself

its easy walking up to a Melee user and people using “Exactly why people tend to hate on rangers. You can kill a player with one skill from afar without any effort put into it whatsoever” as a excuse won’t teach them the differences between Ranged combat and Melee .

your best to bait out Rf ect first then Close in on the point as it draws the pet away from the cap point , leaving the ranger open for a Port attack , forcing him to swap pets away from that Wolf fear or the ranger will have to start kiting waiting for that wolf to return , learn to fight rangers not Walk blindly into fire.

You misunderstand, I don’t struggle fighting rangers. I play one in pvp every now and then so I know what to expect. I find the generic glass power ranger cheesy, that’s all. Also most of them stay on LB 24/7 even when they should revive/stomp/hold the point and go melee.

Kousetsu.1627:

This one made me giggle, a teef that died to a single lb2 cast when he came to my homepoint and was put in a wolf fear without using any cd’s whatsoever.

Exactly why people tend to hate on rangers. You can kill a player with one skill from afar without any effort put into it whatsoever.

I’ve Withdraw’n myself off a cliff to my death once or twice. Does that make you feel better?

Tbh I would use Hide in shadows over Withdraw but when I was using it, I noticed the cast time often screwed me over as I would go down before I was done casting and it was difficult to decide when exactly to start casting it (usually before I was even too low on health to be sure). So… Withdraw because I want fast heals while actually low on health, not having to heal before I’m low on health.

Fluffball.8307:

Toxsa.2701:

It also shows how bad the game balance is, that running 3 mediation Guardian is ok while having 2 thieves or 2 necros have a great disadvantage, despite all being zerk class. It already shows who’s at the top of food chain.

Thieves are basically a requirement, though. Is there any high ranking team that doesn’t use one at all?

1 thief is overpowered, 2 thieves are auto-lose.

Unless the two thieves are really good. I’ve had the pleasure of having such thieves in my ranked matches before. You’re never really holding the point alone because it won’t take them long to get to you and turn 1v1 into 2v1.

At least now all the “stealth OP”-whine should stop. As if the slippery diarrhea wasn’t a good enough reason to dislike fighting engis… Excuse me while I go cry in a corner and kiss my D/P and Shadow refuge goodbye.

But but… I don’t like to play s/d And what am I supposed to replace Shadow refuge with?

Personally I usually swap if there’s another thief or a mesmer in my group. But…

A proper profession balance and build diversity would probably solve this. As it is, mesmer and thief both have only a couple of builds to choose from and most players choose the same build. For thief it’s berserker amulet or nothing, and the same for mesmer (unless condi). Both are extremely fragile professions that rely on killing their opponent before they are killed. Atm I’m worried about specializations mostly, wondering if the changes done will force us into only a few builds per class.

Waffler.1257:

Archon.6480:

What can ANet do to stop people from going afk?

I would be fine with having their accounts terminated, or at least permanently banned from participating in pvp. If they want to try again, they can go buy another account.

That sounds a bit too harsh. What if there was an emergency? Also how would this work with disconnects? I sometimes get disconnects after disconnects so that I am unable to participate. GW1 did it right imo: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dishonorable_Combatant_System

EDIT: Actually a simple solution would be to play ranked matches instead. Less afkers there.

Xom.9264:

yolo swaggins.2570:

the guy who killed you on his thief is now using the same profession you use and keeps killing you? I think the proper term here is poetic justice.

The average thief player doing well on a real class? lol no I think not. They would mostly roll pewpew ranger and that’s fine because it has counters.

I feel like butting in here. I started as thief on every game mode and had to endure alot of playful ridicule from my guildies for dropping dead more often than others (though thief was really really good at pvp back then). After thief I tried other professions and suddenly I was (almost) always the last man standing. Why? I was forced to learn to dodge and read all the different situations sooner than my guildies whom didn’t play a thief. Incidentally, most of my guildies who did try a thief sooner or later didn’t play it for very long.

Imo once you’ve played thief long enough, all the other professions will be easy afterwards. That’s how it was for me.

I love it how there’s another thread below this one labeled ‘thief now too strong against a guard’.

I do think medi guard is very strong against a thief but if you play smart (careful) and wait out his blocks etc you still have a reasonable chance against them. No reason to nerf a class because it’s strong against one specific class.

Thank you OP for saying what all the thieves were thinking (thief hivemind op, nerf pls).

Rickster.8752:

Maris.3164:

From my personal point of view: I main a thief, I play pvp (and pve). I have never ever had any trouble against thieves on my thief or other professions (including a power necro). Yes, on occasion a good thief kills me on w/e profession I am playing at the time. Good for them, they outplayed me, just like any other good player with another class could have.

But most of the time thieves don’t even offer much of a challenge, not alone at least. OP why do you think that is? I’m not a super good player, average at best. I think it’s because I know what they can do so I can predict their moves to some degree. And ironically, my thief seems to be the most vulnerable against a thief.

Thief is meant to excell at 1v1, but cannot contribute much in a bigger fight, something the other professions can do. Mobility is the sole reason thieves are even in the meta still, they can turn 1v1 into 2v1 faster than any other profession (aside from a mesmer with portal). Take that away and you will see thieves in pvp no more. Stealth is not invulnerability and neither is mobility, you can still cc them and hit them through stealth.

Are you really saying thief is bad in big fights lol?

You couldn’t be more wrong. Refuge is still a way to get resses off. But more than this, if you ever played in a game without a thief there is so much a good player can do to stay alive. A good necro will be kiting like a boss. Line of sighting, porting out. And the same goes for any class. A shoutbow will get low and start to kite. ALL OF THIS is nullified by a single thief. All of it. Now all those low targets will get finished off. Without a thief those targets will be hard to finish off.

As such, thief is the best class is all engagements. Its initiative regen is simply too high. The balance is just way off. A nerf to celestial (which is needed) is going to make thief even more broken. They must receive significant nerfs to their core profession mechanics.

Yes the thief can contribute in a bigger fight IF they can survive. That is the issue really. I prefer 1v1 and decapping when it’s a possibility simply because surviving in a bigger fight is difficult.

I don’t know if you play a thief or not but you simply cannot get hit by any of that aoe that goes on in bigger fights. None of it. Majority of the time I can’t continue to res people in SR because somebody is on top of it spamming their skills at us. I jump in and out, target squishies and pray not to get hit by aoe. Most of the time I’m forced to swap to SB to continue to attack. Other times I stealth and run, that is if I’m not dead already.

I’d say thief is good in a bigger fight only when nobody is specifically targeting them and they dance around the area of cluster instead of moving into it (to res for instance you will have to). Even you have to admit a power necro has way better chances at surviving in a bigger fight without running off (I play both btw).

Pyre Fierceshot or Kalla Scorchrazor would be my choices if we wanted charr legends. Or possibly Bonfaaz Burntfur although he was flame legion.

So… Should the thief steal actual abilities from all the professions? If a thief would steal Steal from another thief… Dual Steal anyone? Jokes aside, I would have nothing against this as long as the stolen skills were not say Lich form (as an extreme example) or something useless.

But the reasoning behind the thief stealing abilities that the professions don’t have is that they improvise. I stole a mace from you, now I’ll smack you over the head with it because I don’t have your guardian training.

PS: I rarely even manage to land that mace crack on a guardian.

From my personal point of view: I main a thief, I play pvp (and pve). I have never ever had any trouble against thieves on my thief or other professions (including a power necro). Yes, on occasion a good thief kills me on w/e profession I am playing at the time. Good for them, they outplayed me, just like any other good player with another class could have.

But most of the time thieves don’t even offer much of a challenge, not alone at least. OP why do you think that is? I’m not a super good player, average at best. I think it’s because I know what they can do so I can predict their moves to some degree. And ironically, my thief seems to be the most vulnerable against a thief.

Thief is meant to excell at 1v1, but cannot contribute much in a bigger fight, something the other professions can do. Mobility is the sole reason thieves are even in the meta still, they can turn 1v1 into 2v1 faster than any other profession (aside from a mesmer with portal). Take that away and you will see thieves in pvp no more. Stealth is not invulnerability and neither is mobility, you can still cc them and hit them through stealth.

Quadox.7834:

Maris.3164:

Quadox.7834:

Maris.3164:

ronpierce.2760:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Why is this thread not locked? Nine pages of ignorant kitten kissing and ad Populum not enough for a lock? I knew this thread was going to be non-constructive the moment I read the title and whaddayaknow, it got really stupid on the first page.

The OP might want some discussion but the people who agree with him don’t. lol

This thread isn’t any worse than that “Nerf Thief” thread you guys have that does nothing but direct thieves where to sabotage threads that mention thief… At least this thread has a point to it…

That thread is quite possibly the most entertaining thread on the forums. And what is the point of this thread anyway? All I see is a bunch of people who never played thief and don’t know how easy it actually is to counter one so they call for nerfs.

Okay fine, let’s remove stealth, and while we’re at it, all invulnerabilities and blocks, protection and ranger pets (because they’re annoying). Then we’ll have a bunch of professions that are all similar to one another. Fun fun.

Why? The reveal on missed stealth attack affects mesmer too, not just thief. And it is a legit concern.

What about invulnerability? Much more powerful a tool than stealth, and something the mesmer for instance has in addition to stealth.

“This thread isn’t any worse than that “Nerf Thief”

I was just answering this comment by saying this isn’t just abut thief. Invuln is indeed strong, but that doesn’t concern the subject i was talking about. Personally i think the game would have been better if the invulns from the start were desgined as for example guardian renewed focus- no attacks during it.

This thread isn’t just about thief? Then why is it labeled ‘we need more counterplay to thief stealth’? I don’t see why you people are here complaining about stealth on thief while the warriors and rangers can attack and stomp people whilst taking 0 dmg. We need invulnerability removal first, then we can discuss changes to stealth. Prioritities. There are more glaring issues in game, and imo stealth isn’t even one of them.

These threads just keep coming… Okay so you beat a thief to low health and they ran off then came back with full health. Any other class can do the same without running off (thus wasting time) and continue to beat you into a pulp.

/thread

Quadox.7834:

Maris.3164:

ronpierce.2760:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Why is this thread not locked? Nine pages of ignorant kitten kissing and ad Populum not enough for a lock? I knew this thread was going to be non-constructive the moment I read the title and whaddayaknow, it got really stupid on the first page.

The OP might want some discussion but the people who agree with him don’t. lol

This thread isn’t any worse than that “Nerf Thief” thread you guys have that does nothing but direct thieves where to sabotage threads that mention thief… At least this thread has a point to it…

That thread is quite possibly the most entertaining thread on the forums. And what is the point of this thread anyway? All I see is a bunch of people who never played thief and don’t know how easy it actually is to counter one so they call for nerfs.

Okay fine, let’s remove stealth, and while we’re at it, all invulnerabilities and blocks, protection and ranger pets (because they’re annoying). Then we’ll have a bunch of professions that are all similar to one another. Fun fun.

Why? The reveal on missed stealth attack affects mesmer too, not just thief. And it is a legit concern.

What about invulnerability? Much more powerful a tool than stealth, and something the mesmer for instance has in addition to stealth.

Laraley.7695:

Gabriell.4856:

Maris.3164:

Saiyan.1704:

How can you add counter play to a class that’s designed to play really well in order to counterplay everyone else? One bad move at any given moment and the Thief is toast.

I’m all for adding more counter play and items could always be improved, visually or mechanically, on every class. It’s a bit more difficult for a Thief when a slightest change in anything could make or break the class.

This. So much this. I feel like these people complaining about the class have never tried it out. Most of the nerf suggestions to thief that I come by are utterly absurd and would make the class unplayable.

Why should a good player be punished for being good?

“Why should a good player be pnished for being good?” I see what you did there. I’ll play.

Why should a good player be punished for good positioniong?
Why should a good player be punished for interupt of BP+HS only for the thief to HS again?
Why should a good player be punished for using the correct skill to counter stealth attack only to have the thief stay in stealth and stealth attack again?

I bet thieves are going to say “because they are bad players.” Lolz…

If you interrupt BP + HS it gives you a big time window when thief cannot stealth due to not having intiative. If you cannot put any pressure on the thief in that period of time, then it’s your own fault.

As stated above. And you also seem to forget that stealth is timed. BP+HS doesn’t last as long as Shadow refuge. If you keep moving the thief will not manage to hit you with Backstab in time. Fighting a thief is very active gameplay and yes it might require you to focus more than against a say, ranger. Why is this a bad thing?

I don’t agree with revealed on missed/blocked stealth skill, but they could instead punish the thief by flipping the skill back to basic attack. Then again, that might result in no one ever using backstab again. All it would take is a long lasting aegis or blind since stealth (unless traited or Shadow refuge) doesn’t last that long.

ronpierce.2760:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Why is this thread not locked? Nine pages of ignorant kitten kissing and ad Populum not enough for a lock? I knew this thread was going to be non-constructive the moment I read the title and whaddayaknow, it got really stupid on the first page.

The OP might want some discussion but the people who agree with him don’t. lol

This thread isn’t any worse than that “Nerf Thief” thread you guys have that does nothing but direct thieves where to sabotage threads that mention thief… At least this thread has a point to it…

That thread is quite possibly the most entertaining thread on the forums. And what is the point of this thread anyway? All I see is a bunch of people who never played thief and don’t know how easy it actually is to counter one so they call for nerfs.

Okay fine, let’s remove stealth, and while we’re at it, all invulnerabilities and blocks, protection and ranger pets (because they’re annoying). Then we’ll have a bunch of professions that are all similar to one another. Fun fun.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

no reaveal on block or miss when stealthed – speaking of spammable… If a thief failed to land an attack in such extremely favourable situation, then regardless if it was thief’s blooper, or opponents great job at seeing the unseeable, a big reward for the defender and hard punishement for the thief are in order. It’s enough how spammable stealth is, it should carry a risk vs it’s reward

Thieves are squi…oh oops! Nvm! Resilience of shadows! Coming to thief near you with core specialization update as shadow arts minor. You pick shadowarts, you’re no longer the squish vs direct damage when you stealth.

They could punish missed/blocked backstab by flipping it back to basic attack. As a thief I would have nothing against that. But removing stealth while doing it? Nope. You’re already at high risk going melee range into that area of effect and melee skill spam. Stealth is not invulnerability.

As for shadow arts… I think this is a WvW thing only where the main thing is to run in a zerg vs another zerg (not something thief naturally excells at). Nobody uses full SA line in sPvP. What use is being tanky if you can’t hold the point at the same time? Remember, while in stealth, the thief is not doing anything.

SA line will always be points taken from somewhere else to be able to use Resilience of shadows (a grandmaster trait), be it Steal buffs (Steal is garbage without investing points full on Trickery) or pure condi/dps from Deadly Arts (which also has Mug and Panic Strike traits in it) and Critical Strikes/mobility from Acrobatics. I don’t see why this is a problem. If anything, they’ve given thieves another viable build for zerg vs zerg even if the only thing you can do with it is to revive your mates.

Personally I’ve never touched Resilience of shadows so that’s all I can say off the top of my head.

Yami Kishi.7361:

Thieves definitely need nerfs like this. Right now my ranger is the only class i have that can compete against a good thief and that in of itself is sad considering how many people complain about how rangers are overpowered. Good thieves just can’t be beaten with their stuns, conditions, stealth’s and super heals.

I said this in another thread like this one and I’ll say it again: Why should a good player be punished for being good? The thief beat you because they were good. This goes for any other class as well. You’re basically asking for easy wins (against a thief specifically), what’s the fun in that anyway?

Think about it. If Anet did do as suggested on this thread, any average and below average skill thief would become useless and the learning curve would rise too high for them to want to play the class. And the good thieves would have a really hard time trying to win. If they nerfed stealth/mobility on thief, they would have to buff them otherwise just for them to stay viable, and thus thief would become similar to every other class. Fun? Hardly.

There is already counterplay to thief, plenty of it (meditation guard says hi). Any condi build against a thief works wonders since thief has poor condi removal (I have literally died from burn alone).

High dps? Hardly as high as a lich form necro. Dazes? I do believe warrior has a lot more access to these. Just grab one stun breaker and you’ll be fine against a thief.

Counter to mobility is very simple: chill, immobilize, cripple, any cc you can think of. Every class has one of these available. The thief becomes helpless very quick.

For stealth, use your AoE/melee weapon to spam on the point you last saw the thief on or around you if you think they’re going in for a backstab (by the time you’re done they’re usually downed). Shadow refuge even shows you where the thief is hiding, and you can knock them out of it. A thief in stealth is a thief who is doing nothing.

Please.

zinkz.7045:

Shylock.4653:

1. Teleports not working because of a leaf on the ground

This is a problem for every class and many skills, you get ‘obstructed’ on ranged attacks because of some pebble or leaf, leaps fail because they hit some pebble or plant, pulls like magnet pull fail, etc.

The difference with thief is that SB5 eats initiative while doing nothing from time to time. And thief needs initiative to use weapon skills. I’ve died many a times just trying to get away because SB5 isn’t working and eats my initiative while doing so.

Saiyan.1704:

How can you add counter play to a class that’s designed to play really well in order to counterplay everyone else? One bad move at any given moment and the Thief is toast.

I’m all for adding more counter play and items could always be improved, visually or mechanically, on every class. It’s a bit more difficult for a Thief when a slightest change in anything could make or break the class.

This. So much this. I feel like these people complaining about the class have never tried it out. Most of the nerf suggestions to thief that I come by are utterly absurd and would make the class unplayable.

Why should a good player be punished for being good?

As said above, I too run and hide when I’m the sole target of the lich. If not, Basilisk venom and Steal. It sometimes forces them to drop lich form to heal or pop DS.

I’ve also tried to just dodge and blind and running around the lich but in most cases this results in a dead teef and a very satisfied necro^^

I think it’s a 50/50 case, depending on how competent and focused the thief is.

DarkSyze.8627:

(by the way: i am working with my thief profession )

Good! Try it, love it (or hate it) then come back here with results. Once you have more experience playing the class it will also be easier to counter and beat it on other professions. Who knows, maybe you’ll learn to like thief Oh and visit metabattle.com for builds. Makes it easier to get started.

EDIT: Don’t feel disheartened if you die alot, it’s part of the (high) learning curve. Feel free to pm me in game if you need a hand.

Juclesia Elcritian.8410:

I am against any changes that would force me to craft another ascended LIGHT armor set. A better approach would be to add stat changing to ascended armor, or make Legendary armor with stat changing, BUT only if existing ascended armor is required to make it.

I agree. Though thanks to fractals, I already possess 3 different stats of ascended light armor.

Bloody Prince Thorn would be my favourite. He and my thief share a hairstyle^^

Tim.6450:

Unless adding “dificult content” means nerfing zerk, i have seen any nerfs to zerk. The trait changes make it "less logical " to go full zerk, but it is more because the added choices are non zerk, so no nerfs.

I’d think the trait changes would only make serker gear more important for a team of 5 players, yes? No more stats from trait lines so all of your stats come from gear (which in turn are going to get a buff). Right?

-I bring a thief to pug fractals and stay on it when we fail over and over even if I knew I could carry the team with my guardian. I give boss fractals usually 10-15 fails until I swap to guard

-I feel bad whenever I convert gold to gems because I feel like I’m not supporting Arenanet

-I spend all of my gold on armor and weapon skins

-I care almost as much about my characters’ looks as I do about my own looks (if not more). I spend hours getting just the right looks for each of my characters

-I play male characters solely even though I’m a female

-When people call me “dude” I don’t correct them just to feel like one of the guys. This makes me happy inside

-I secretly judge everyone in pvp when they play bad in my opinion, except thieves. I also refuse to take blame for losses even when I know it’s my fault too

-I admire thieves in pvp who play well, no matter which side they’re on and wish I could be as good as them yet never ask for tips as I’m too shy

-I sometimes leech the first phase of Tequatl because I’m tired or just feeling lazy :/

dietzero.3514:

What is the ACTUAL longbow range right now? 1700? 1900?

Over 9000.

Sorry.

Compared to other classes that go serker (say necro, mesmer, ranger) thief is way harder to play well in spvp. It’s not always a l2p issue imo. Serker ranger for instance can indeed kill you before you even get close to them. High risk high reward doesn’t always apply; there is no risk for a serker ranger. Same with serker mesmer and necro. They can simply range and kite and kill you while doing so.

What we have is mobility and stealth and they need to be used all of the time, no slacking off or you’re dead. I still believe thief is the bottom of the barrel, pretty much everything else is easier to play. But I’ve also seen awesome thieves that are super hard to kill on your own. Practise and reflexes I guess but a buff to the class is needed imo too.