Guild Wars 2

Zietlogik.6208:

MikaHR.1978:

ooooh, no. Its same thing like pavillion. And, i called it right back then. This kind of maps should be rare exception.

And they again messed up rewards, though not as bad as pavillion, but not much better.

No, not really, this isn’t about the clock game, it is just about a basic progression across a map, everyone can participate to it just by doing events anywhere on the map. Pavillion was a zerg run, clockwise scramble against a clock, nothing the same if it is built right.

IndigoSundown.5419:

One problem I see with this suggestion is that some of the Dry Top events fail even with a fair number of people. If every map had similar mechanics, there would not be enough players in all of them. How fun would Dry Top be if only a few people were there? As it is, some maps have things for small numbers of players to do. Sometimes I prefer playing like that. I would not want every map to require a mass of players to get things done.

This is not an issue with the reward system, it is an issue with how the events are designed, which can potentially be changed on the fly, so it should not be an issue.

It is the same template as pavillion. Wih all the same quirks and same “if its not gold”=“if its not t5+ map” crap.

And no, redesgning whole map with events cannot be done “on the fly” lol

What happens when dry top indeed becomes….dry top (and how its set up its self destructive system). 1 odd maplike that isquite enough for a long long while.

Tomas.5029:

MikaHR.1978:

Tomas.5029:

MikaHR.1978:

Tomas.5029:

The thing that players truly want is a challenge, simple as that. They want something that cannot be cleared by an average player in 3 hours.

Yea, like 0,5% of the players want that, so technically youre right, practically – no.

I think you got it twisted slightly, and did not read my post entirely.
I am not calling for hardcore difficulty content that indeed only 0.9% of the playerbase even gets to see (Oldschool Naxxramas from WoW could be the example).
I am making a suggestion to create content that rewards effort, and not simply attendance.
My suggestions are simple – if you’re a casual, and you don’t want anything changed, and you just want to log in, kill some stuff, get some loot, and just generally relax, you’d still have that.
However, those who want more, and those who like to be awarded for their skillful play, should be. Again, i’d like you to read my post.

Its direct answer to your post.

Pavillion was a big mistake on ANets part

Dry Top should be exception, not the rule, it goes under same hat as pavillion.

You agai and again metion these rewards (bribes), BUT content should first stand on its own, then and ONLY then it can be measured how many people want it. So no, no special rewards or anything such, if its extremely popular -> make more.

Otherwise youre just making a point most people that do this content are interested in the rewards anyway, they dont give a kitten if its challenging or not. So making “easy” content with nice rewards is actually way to go. Yeah, that 0,0001% that actually want challenging content because its challenging content get screwed, but thats how it is.

Well, the rewards (or “bribes” as you so elegantly put it) are an integral part of RPGs, whether you like it or not. New, shining loot that requires patience and dedication attracts players. If this wasn’t the case, no one would go for that Legendary or Ascended armor.

If we go by what you say, that players actually want more stuff for less effort (which i kind of doubt, after observing LA’s chat for a year), then ANET should at least make it more enjoyable to repeat it. Like i mentioned in my previous post, the last instance of the latest Living Story patch was really good in this regard, because it introduced Challenge Mode, which made the encounter feel more exciting and dangerous the second time you play it. Even the Mordrem mobs are a step in the right direction, because they hit hard, and you actually need to watch yourself when fighting them, especially when you wear Berserker’s/Assassin’s gear.

And thats where youre wrong again. Loot is defnitely not integral part of RPG. It certainly devolved to that in certain games.

To give you nice RL analogy: crapzillion people play soccer daily without expecting any reward at all. Soccer doesnt change, it has no new conent. And people STILL do it.

You might want to think about that and why you have to bribe people to play something. As i said, content needs to stand on its own legs first.

KarlaGrey.5903:

MikaHR.1978:

Yeah, provided all things equal, so you will have to deal with losing maybe 1/1000 encounters base on that for a few days tops (as that is ow long it takes to get full exotics IF you dont already have those when you ding 80 which is very easy to do also)

So its not certain death? Oh my. Bad players are bad players, ascended wont help, and good players do it nekkid? So what was your point really?

I spent the majority of my time in pvp, so no, I didn’t have any useful pieces of exotics. RNGeezus did/does not favour me either, and the game still does not have an option to obtain statistically best gear from the nearby vendor at a low cost, like the predecessor does.

Also, you completely missed my point about the nab-friendly carry group type. Which, I dare say, is as rare as the equal wvw encounter for which you pulled the metrics out of your rear side.

pvp or www. Becuse now even from spvp you get exotics, and if were talking www…..sorry, but running casually around www for few days youll get enough gold/karma/badges for full set of exotics. Sorry, but back in the day i had more karma/badges than i knew what to do with, let alone now. But one thing is certain: you DONT need to buy anything in gem store to achieve that.

Oh and sorry that you feel offended at the notion of “nab-friendly”, but my guild runs are all nab foriendly. You were saying? You choose who to play with, if you choose to play with with jerks, thats YOUR choice.

munkiman.3068:

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

Essentially he is saying that gw2 population is generally way at the bottom % of gamers in being able deal with challenge.
Therefore anet makes the content that their population can handle, which he implies is extremely low.

I personally believe that gw2 players arent any less capable than other players, they like the systems and enjoy using them well, and knowing their class, its just extremely rare that game actually requires them to use these skills.
After a little while people adapt, and they tend to enjoy overcoming, or matching different challenges.

Nah, any game that strives for large playerbase has vast majority that want easy stuff, and any company thats wise will provide vast majority of such content.

If you want ultra challenging game you cant expect large playerbase. Its just how it is.

The more people you strive to please, the more tend to leave after awhile and it doesn’t seem like those people would be the ones to buy stuff in the store either.

No, thats quite a reversed logic.

So youre saying that producing content that vast majority wont even touch is the way to go? Yeah….no

And actually, people like that spend most in cash shops. They have lot og moneyand lack of time. Opposed to other side which has a lot of time and very little money.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Uh oh, it was meant in view of facing an opponent of similar skill but better equipped. Anything with better skill and better gear will naturally result in a roll over.

Well you can also run a dungeon naked if your group has the benevolance to carry, as your input is likely to be negligable at best (esp if not damage-specced), which is pretty much the case in random yellows/exotics. Being a liability to the party, however, is not quite my thing. But of course, some won’t/don’t mind it, and that’s great…for them.

Yeah, provided all things equal, so you will have to deal with losing maybe 1/1000 encounters base on that for a few days tops (as that is ow long it takes to get full exotics IF you dont already have those when you ding 80 which is very easy to do also)

So its not certain death? Oh my. Bad players are bad players, ascended wont help, and good players do it nekkid? So what was your point really?

Tomas.5029:

MikaHR.1978:

Tomas.5029:

The thing that players truly want is a challenge, simple as that. They want something that cannot be cleared by an average player in 3 hours.

Yea, like 0,5% of the players want that, so technically youre right, practically – no.

I think you got it twisted slightly, and did not read my post entirely.
I am not calling for hardcore difficulty content that indeed only 0.9% of the playerbase even gets to see (Oldschool Naxxramas from WoW could be the example).
I am making a suggestion to create content that rewards effort, and not simply attendance.
My suggestions are simple – if you’re a casual, and you don’t want anything changed, and you just want to log in, kill some stuff, get some loot, and just generally relax, you’d still have that.
However, those who want more, and those who like to be awarded for their skillful play, should be. Again, i’d like you to read my post.

Its direct answer to your post.

Pavillion was a big mistake on ANets part

Dry Top should be exception, not the rule, it goes under same hat as pavillion.

You agai and again metion these rewards (bribes), BUT content should first stand on its own, then and ONLY then it can be measured how many people want it. So no, no special rewards or anything such, if its extremely popular → make more.

Otherwise youre just making a point most people that do this content are interested in the rewards anyway, they dont give a kitten if its challenging or not. So making “easy” content with nice rewards is actually way to go. Yeah, that 0,0001% that actually want challenging content because its challenging content get screwed, but thats how it is.

ooooh, no. Its same thing like pavillion. And, i called it right back then. This kind of maps should be rare exception.

And they again messed up rewards, though not as bad as pavillion, but not much better.

phys.7689:

Essentially he is saying that gw2 population is generally way at the bottom % of gamers in being able deal with challenge.
Therefore anet makes the content that their population can handle, which he implies is extremely low.

I personally believe that gw2 players arent any less capable than other players, they like the systems and enjoy using them well, and knowing their class, its just extremely rare that game actually requires them to use these skills.
After a little while people adapt, and they tend to enjoy overcoming, or matching different challenges.

Nah, any game that strives for large playerbase has vast majority that want easy stuff, and any company thats wise will provide vast majority of such content.

If you want ultra challenging game you cant expect large playerbase. Its just how it is.

If anything i vote for scalable content. 1, 2,3…5….10…..it should all be good.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Pretty sure running on yellows or random exotics in wvw (and the higher difficulty dungeons, let alone fractals) spells certain death for most (especially outside the zerg), but in particular for beginners/casuals who aren’t likely to undergo the horrid gold grind associated with the ascended, or even the exotics together with the meta runes.
Good thing the pvp is more-or-less a level playing field..sort of (hello recent unlucks).

Uh oh, if thats the case ascended wont help either. Thats matter of skill not gear.

What are you saying, bad players need bigger crutch (please leave casuals out of it, youre clearly talking about BAD players)

And really, with all venues you can get exotics, really, “horrible grind”? And i really think you dont understand the difference between “speed runners” and the rest. You can run dungeons just fine in rares/random exotics.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Archache is just another Koreagrinder which people run to and come back after 1-2 months after they realize that nothing has changed in the MMO world. Let’s face it: yes GW2 lacks enough content (IMHO) a lot of content, but it does a lot of things right. It is if you check Metacritic still the best rated MMO in the past two years.

The thing is most people writing here have no clue how AA works. But thats not unusual occurance, just look at how many missguided posts were made about NPE (which you could check out in 20-30 mins), many by these same posters, they dont care about facts, unfortunately (for them), them comapring AA and GW2 really sheds the light how missguided they are.

But anyway, anyone can try AA and see for themselves, VERY FAST, but its really not first game of that kind.

GW2 has one of least invasive cash shop in industry and no sub. It goes as far as lot of people complain theres “really nothing of interest in cash shop, just fluff”.

Saying that without using GW2 cash shop you cannot “compete”….well, i encourage them to play true P2W game (AA included) since it seems they have 0 experience in that area.

KarlaGrey.5903:

I consider putting ludicrius price tags on desired/BiS items as means to stimulate ig shop sales in a b2p game – rather than having them obtainable from playing the game alone in a reasonable amount of time – by far more* insidious.
But hey, you ‘like the game, and as such willingly ignore all the wad of bad’.

F2p games at least don’t hide behind underhanded and outright misleading business models.

Ascended was a mistake on Anets part, thats true, but if you see getting ascended as “unreasonable” you should really try AA, it will make your head explode in comparison.

And yes, AA hides behind F2P as its wannabe sub+invasive cash shop game.

KarlaGrey.5903:

GW2 is a b2p with an ig shop (meaning you’re paying double, basicaly) which is showed down your throat because the game design took a turn towards cannibilizing its playerbase (gold grind everywhere and few means to obtain the gold at a moderately normal pace without using the suggested methods).

In a way, it’s even funnier than an outright f2p game with a sub or ig shop, given it’s ‘sneaky’ turn to the gem shop, on top of the box purchase. At least AA isn’t running on a make-believe b2p model. While GW2 might not be as restrictive as a sub/f2p games can be (AA included to an extent), it most certainly seems to be heading down that road. But instead of outright barring access from content, it sticks a price tag on BiS, or even the most desired runes sets/exotics – the SOLE difference is it will inconvenience you to an extent where you’l either go ‘fk it’ and leave, or buy gems to convert them to gold. I call that underhanded and it’s, in a way, far worse than a real f2p model.

You are right, AA doesnt have to pretend at anything, its straight P2W.

As i said, you have no clue how AA works so i can see you can easily be confused.

AA is the worst case scenario. "Sub"+invasive cash shop.

KarlaGrey.5903:

How’s that any different from GW2 and it’s ‘friendly’ hinting to purchase gems and turn them into gold (as means of fighting the insane gold grind needed for the BiS, for example), meanwhile nerfing any and all farm spots, keeping TP flipping unhindered, implementing a loot system that gives an impression it was created with the sole purpose of trolling players (cuz gem sop is where the fun’z at).

You people, really….hi pot, meet kettle.

You obviously you have no clue how AA works.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

MikaHR.1978:

Tomas.5029:

The thing that players truly want is a challenge, simple as that. They want something that cannot be cleared by an average player in 3 hours.

Yea, like 0,5% of the players want that, so technically youre right, practically – no.

Actually, according to my calculations, like 99.5% of players want that, so technically and practically he’s right.

Yeah, tell that to Carbine/WoW vanilla endgame/EQ…..

You can say what youre saying all day long, but it wont become truth.

You want to see how “challenging/old school/walked uphills trough the snow…BOTH WAYS” games fare?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1045484633/project-gorgon-a-new-approach-to-mmos?ref=nav_search

And thast despite being advertised (by sponsorship/nostalgia i guess) on many gamers sites.

But of course, on forums, you would think there are millions of people just dying for some EQ/AC/UO knock off. Weeeeeeeeeell….yeah.

Nerelith.7360:

snip

Dude, playing with semantics wont really change one fact:

AA is P2W.

phys.7689:

that would mean sub based, which is essentially what arche age is, sub/cash shop hybrid.
and before you say thats dumb, keep in mind gw2 already using this model in china, and some version of it may come here eventually

You are right, you have to “sub” AND pay on top of that.

Its worst case of P2W, side by side many of F2P games.

And your jab at GW2 is not really jab, afaik were not playing china GW2 and dont have anything to do with china GW2, not even same company running it. AND we dont get china VIP. So yeah, any comparison of AA and GW2 is just weak attempt at….something.

Anyway, if you want to try/play AA be prepared to open your wallet wide, costantly. Its the worst case scenario of "sub"+invasive cash shop. F2P is pretty much trial…and not very pleasant one.

Really dont know what Trion was thinking, they got a lot of goodwill (even if low pop for Rift, but fact is it wasnt very good game overall) and now with AA theyre tossing it all down the drain, just look at metacritic for AA

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/archeage

Nerelith.7360:

MikaHR.1978:

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

snip

Of course its not good, it wasnt good in GW1 and its not good in GW2.

But hey, at least “community” (those few people that called themselves community at the time and whined about it the loudest) is happy, amiright?

If you want to delude yourself that trait system change has nothing to do with GW1 skill capture whines, well, good luck with that because its direct reaction to “feedback from community”

They did skill/trait/gear system at launch to serve specific purpose (as you can read in my sig)

Now 2 of those are untrue, and direct result of “community whines” aka “who was loudest on the forums at certain times”

Right. Only “GW1 whiners” are ruining the game. Because GW2 players (who’ve never played GW1) totally never whine!

“Waaah! Liadari is too hard! Nerf!”
“Waaah! Arah is too hard! Nerf!”
“Waaah! Ascalon Catacombs story mode is too hard! Nerf!”

Please, bunch of cry babies. Ruining content by getting it nerfed with all your tears. Ascalon Catacombs story mode for instance was hella fun; you actually had to think (le gasp) to complete it. Then people cried it was too hard, it got nerfed, and now you can just faceroll through it. GW2 players want everything easymode. You thought anything in this game was hard?

As a GW1 player, I challenge all of you to go play Elite missions without gimmicks. Domain of Anguish, Underworld, Fissure of Woe. None of you will last past the first wave of mobs before you start crying that it’s too hard and needs to be nerfed. And all of those missions had a Hard Mode too. The only thing in this game that could be considered challenging by comparison, would be Arah Explorer Mode and High Level Fractals.

GW2 carebears (not casuals/hardcore/whatever. Thought I’d clarify before people start screaming that not all GW2 players are alike.) are ruining the game as much as, if not more so than “GW1 whiners.”

Ahhh, but there are many groups of whiners, but what is similar to all of them:

they are extremely vocal
they are extremely small group

and yeah, GW1 whiners get a special medal for change to traits

Nerelith.7360:

Nick.6972:

Was watching Destiny Review and it reminded me of GW2 for some reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzopWRXK_r4
Grinding, no content, insane RNG.
Perhaps it’s time for the developers to focus on sandbox MMOs instead of theme park.

One word. Archeage.

If you adore P2W yeah, otherwise skip.

If you think Archeage is pay2win. I would Like to hear a definition of Pay2win, that will make Archeage pay2win, but that also excludes Gw2.

Any definition of pay2win loose enough to include Archeage, will also include Gw2, and almost every other MMO out there, that has a cash shop that sells anything beyond Cosmetics.. Things Like..Exp Boosters…. crafting xp boosters… etc etc..

So just curious, what is your definition of pay2win, that makes Archeage pay2win, but doesn’t make Gw2 pay2win?

P2W is self explanatory.

It doesnt take long even for someone who knows nothing about AA to figureit out (khm….labor points….khm….and thats just tip of the iceberg)

If you want to play AA you HAVE to pay. Constantly. Thats P2W. I have a sense “masses” will feel what P2W means very quickly and mass exodus will begin. Its wise of them not to bring in anymore servers, as they really wont need em, and you surely cant merge those servers (well at least not without kittening at least 1 servers population completely off)

Allelya.6830:

“Points of Interest (level 7)
Gathering Nodes (Level 9) – Nodes may have been removed in areas before this level. No there is no potato famine there is plenty of potato in Metrica Province.
Vista (level 10)”

These help you level. They shouldn’t have been removed at all. This is 2014, most players coming to Guild Wars 2 already have a strong grip on the basics of an MMO (leveling, gathering, professions, etc).

We need more guilds like mine offering help to new players in exploration and other things that GW2 offers that you don’t find in other MMOs.

Good, then hey will actually play it and wont write missconceptions like you (ironic really, the thread title)

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

snip

Of course its not good, it wasnt good in GW1 and its not good in GW2.

But hey, at least “community” (those few people that called themselves community at the time and whined about it the loudest) is happy, amiright?

If you want to delude yourself that trait system change has nothing to do with GW1 skill capture whines, well, good luck with that because its direct reaction to “feedback from community”

They did skill/trait/gear system at launch to serve specific purpose (as you can read in my sig)

Now 2 of those are untrue, and direct result of “community whines” aka “who was loudest on the forums at certain times”

Right. Only “GW1 whiners” are ruining the game. Because GW2 players (who’ve never played GW1) totally never whine!

“Waaah! Liadari is too hard! Nerf!”
“Waaah! Arah is too hard! Nerf!”
“Waaah! Ascalon Catacombs story mode is too hard! Nerf!”

Please, bunch of cry babies. Ruining content by getting it nerfed with all your tears. Ascalon Catacombs story mode for instance was hella fun; you actually had to think (le gasp) to complete it. Then people cried it was too hard, it got nerfed, and now you can just faceroll through it. GW2 players want everything easymode. You thought anything in this game was hard?

As a GW1 player, I challenge all of you to go play Elite missions without gimmicks. Domain of Anguish, Underworld, Fissure of Woe. None of you will last past the first wave of mobs before you start crying that it’s too hard and needs to be nerfed. And all of those missions had a Hard Mode too. The only thing in this game that could be considered challenging by comparison, would be Arah Explorer Mode and High Level Fractals.

GW2 carebears (not casuals/hardcore/whatever. Thought I’d clarify before people start screaming that not all GW2 players are alike.) are ruining the game as much as, if not more so than “GW1 whiners.”

Ahhh, but there are many groups of whiners, but what is similar to all of them:

they are extremely vocal
they are extremely small group

and yeah, GW1 whiners get a special medal for change to traits

Nerelith.7360:

Nick.6972:

Was watching Destiny Review and it reminded me of GW2 for some reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzopWRXK_r4
Grinding, no content, insane RNG.
Perhaps it’s time for the developers to focus on sandbox MMOs instead of theme park.

One word. Archeage.

If you adore P2W yeah, otherwise skip.

Nick.6972:

Was watching Destiny Review and it reminded me of GW2 for some reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzopWRXK_r4
Grinding, no content, insane RNG.
Perhaps it’s time for the developers to focus on sandbox MMOs instead of theme park.

Actually Destiny is GW1 “clone”. You should really check your facts before you write.

Tomas.5029:

The thing that players truly want is a challenge, simple as that. They want something that cannot be cleared by an average player in 3 hours.

Yea, like 0,5% of the players want that, so technically youre right, practically – no.

chemiclord.3978:

I also don’t think that the experience from this point on (outside of the clumping of skill points and stats) is going to be all that terribly different. At level 40, outside of the kittened up trait system, the game really wasn’t playing all that differently for me. By this point, it doesn’t feel particularly new. It’s, outside of those details, pretty much the leveling experience I know and remember. I really don’t think I’ll find anything unique to comment on going from level 40 on… it’ll just be pretty much the same review as 31-40.

So, I’m confident enough to call it here, honestly. I find leveling to be fairly tedious as a general rule regardless of system used, and I’m not particularly keen to go through 40 more levels of stuff I already know.

Thats it, for true vets NPE is insignificant, and they also should have a means of skipping it altogether if they choose so ( that they also had before)

phys.7689:

chemiclord.3978:

31-40

Ya know, I kinda like how the Personal Story is clumped together. I find I don’t have to think, “Who is [x] character again?” because it was several levels between visits.

I do like how the rewards have improved as well (many of the items allow you to choose what stats you want rather than pre-determined (and usually pretty poor). And of top of that, finishing this PS segment earned me an Order related weapon skin. Not too shabby.

I also conveniently earned another clump of skill points just in time to grab my elite skill just as they unlocked (Rampage as One, obviously). I guess it kinda worked out… but I’m skill not completely sold on this entire “get everything in clumps” strategy. I mean, I kinda get the logic behind it (I can see how players could kinda “forget” getting 1 trait point and 1 skill point when each step requires multiple points), but it’s still kinda meh.

Meanwhile, as far as trait hunting goes, I immediately found one absurd one that was fairly fundamental for the Ranger build (Vigorous Spirits), which required exploring all of Harathi Hinterlands to unlock.

Eff.

That.

I mean, I kinda get how it could work, as additional incentive for new players to do things they wouldn’t normally think of doing. But for someone who has already explored Harathi three times?

Eff.

That.

So I cheated, and had my other ranger (the level 80 with a bajillion skill points) buy the guides and drop them in my bank. Sorry. I guess it’s nice that you can do it that way… but it’s still pretty stupid that something that was perfectly fine to begin with is now something so poorly implemented.

Other traits weren’t particularly time consuming, and often were a surprise to stumble on, like earning one through kill Kol in Harathi. If more were like that (having to go off the more beaten path) rather than something merely time consuming (like zone exploration), it’d be more bearable.

I’ll admit to bias, I’m not a fan of “hunting” things for trivial reasons. I despised the elite skill capping of GW1. I came into this having already decided I was going to hate the trait capping of GW2. So take that in mind when I say I pretty much entirely loathe what Arena.net did to the trait system.

Revert it back to the way it was, please. I want all my traits without having to do stupid stuff to get them. Thank you.

So, I’m now at level 40, where the NPE was supposed to really come to an “end” initially, and my personal judgment of the matter is “eh.” It’s not nearly as terrible as the vocal forum presence wants to claim… but it’s not a particularly impressive improvement on what existed before.

Some things are better. Some things are more annoying. I guess if you had never played the game before, you wouldn’t be bothered, and would probably like it. For a veteran, I really think the best Arena.net can hope for is that you find it more different than worse.

For me, that’s how I’ve decided to view it.

Except for trait capping.

That can die in a fire.

the npe, is the entire package, they broke it up here, but in china it was released together.
New player is going from 1-80 the first time.
the trait system totally changes the balance of skillpoint, aka traits versus utilities. It dramatically increases the time to getting a max skill/trait/level charachter. Now, you use the same resource to obtain your traits, and your utilities, or you do tasks that most people take quite some time doing.

Actually, no, trait changes were introduced because certain small vocal minority was whining on the forums.

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

And people won’t be talking about this for years. They’re be talking about it for weeks, maybe. Already most of the map chatter about it has died down.

That may be because most have already said their piece. Not everyone is compelled to repeat their position in every thread about a topic that they’ve already addressed. I stated my feelings about the NPE in one thread and it is far down on the forum. However, my opinions about the NPE have not changed.

The volume of complaints do mean something. And that a significant of the forum population expressed so much dissatisfaction should not be ignored.

Actually the volume of complaints on forums means absolutely nothing.

Zodiaci.3218:

I’d sincerely like to know where this rumor originated. No endgame? Is a new story campaign, giant map (and completion), crafting, a new set of dungeons, obtaining legendary weapons, and 3 new areas of the map opening up just not enough for you?
Really, where did this originate?

Theres no raid gear treadmill at max level and everyone knows that is THE endgame.

Yeah, think /sarcasm is in order.

phys.7689:

snip

Of course its not good, it wasnt good in GW1 and its not good in GW2.

But hey, at least “community” (those few people that called themselves community at the time and whined about it the loudest) is happy, amiright?

If you want to delude yourself that trait system change has nothing to do with GW1 skill capture whines, well, good luck with that because its direct reaction to “feedback from community”

They did skill/trait/gear system at launch to serve specific purpose (as you can read in my sig)

Now 2 of those are untrue, and direct result of “community whines” aka “who was loudest on the forums at certain times”

phys.7689:

IndigoSundown.5419:

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

Hope they never ever listen to GW1 suggestions (khm…traits….khm)

you keep saying this, but im pretty sure its not accurate, can you point me to where people asked for existing traits to become unlocks? im pretty sure that never happened.

People asked for GW2 to add something like unlocking Elite skills in GW. I’m pretty sure they weren’t talking about redoing the traits, though. What they were really looking for was new skills, new Elites especially and new content to unlock them in. What we got instead was a trait revamp, which is very unlike GW Elite capture. ANet puts their own twists on player requests. I’m pretty sure a lot of people who wanted gear progression were unhappy with ANet’s version, and a lot who wanted raids were unhappy with instance taxiing to do Teq.

I think what Mika is saying is, “With ANet, be careful what you ask for, you may not recognize it when you get it.”

based on his past interactions, im pretty sure he is saying that literally people were asking for traits to be unlocked.
His argument wouldnt make sense otherwise, he basically uses it as justification that they shouldnt listen to players.

And what you said is correct, the discussion for unlocks was centered around how they chose to add new skills, which was generally, pay 25-50 skill points being a bad, and not engaging mechanic, and even if that was how they wanted to do it, also they should offer an alternate method, for new skills to be aquired. They also said it should/could have an unlock method in context with the skill.

but yes, it wasnt what people were asking for, and it really wasnt executed with the same spirit that it was intended.

Their decision to revamp traits is directly linked to GW1 whines about skill capture and how “awesome” it was.

Now other 95% of playerbase has to suffer the consequences.

So yeah, no more listening to GW1 whines….ever.

But thats not isolated case, no more listening to small groups like:

raiders
dungeon runners
vertical progression whiners (although lot of damage is already done with ascended)
trinity whiners (although some damage was already done)
hardcore whiners
farmer whiners
….
….
….
And that pretty much easily covers 90%+ whines on forums (not just this one)

duckideva.6358:

One of the things that drew a subset of WoW players to GW2 was the fact that it wasn’t WoW. Blizzard has made some real hamfisted moves, and each time, it drives off a subset of players that start looking for something new.

That said; having come from a large raiding guild in WoW, the most hardcore of players aren’t going to stay playing gw2 for very long, it’s just too easy. To be honest, one of the things I loved about GW2 was that I could wander around, help people, have people help me, do events, not do events, whatever…it’s just a mellow, cool way to spend an hour or two, but I burned out hard raiding in other games, and I wanted a game where I wouldn’t have to study spreadsheets to make sure everything would go to plan.

But leveling a new alt through the current system…is mind-numbingly dull. And the realization that I’ll be leveling over and over as an 80 before I ever have even close to half my traits has made me resistant to playing.

Seriously, I’ve spent more time reading and commenting on the forums than I have playing since I started the new alt. Most of my friends have wandered off to other games; either back to WoW or off to AA or whatever.

I can’t find the post, but IIRC, one of the devs said something about how the testers went through the opening scene, and then refused to touch anything because they “didn’t know what to do”, so they sat quietly with their hands in their laps until someone told them what to do. (Where they could find a western game audience that sat quietly for anything….I don’t even know.)

If those are the gamers that Anet is trying to attract and retain, then it is no wonder GW2 is turning into Baby’s First MMO.

And now we have it: GW2 isnt even trying to dip into hardcore WoW players, but seems YOU want them to.

Trait system is bad, but NPE really is not that significant.

Hope they never ever listen to GW1 suggestions (khm…traits….khm)

BlueZone.4236:

Beldin.5498:

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

WoW was successful because it was an amazing product at the time. Blizzard understood polish and maximize their games’ potentials. That’s why their 3 franchises (Warcraft, Diablo, Starcraft) are (were?) amazing. Of course, Blizzard today is not the same as Blizzard back in the old days.
ANet never figured out how to truly tap into GW2’s potential. That’s why it’s following the normal trend.

There’s simply no evidence available that if WoW didn’t have major competition and major funding for advertising that it would have done much worse.

We only know what happened. Attributing their success to any one thing and not an entire combination of factors is just theory.

The evidence is in their game, but thanks for derailing this topic because it’s not heading your way.

Actually its not in their game. Because every wow clone (which are actually better games in many aspects) would be as popular as wow.

So….no.

You call them WoW clones, so why bother playing them while knowing they are clones? Just play the original.
Where “WoW clones” may be better in a few aspect, WoW does better as a whole package. That’s why it remained popular in the first place.

So, yes!

You see, and thats why your claim is pretty much….not very applicable.

WoW was right product at the right place at the right time, not better or worse than the lot, nothing more noting less. Its not first product of that type and its not last. Stars align from time to time to allow that.

It’s ok if you don’t like WoW.
It did better than the competition because it was overall a better game than games before it and games after it

Personally for me EQ2 was by far the better game .. however WoWs main advantages
were that their engine ran on crappy hardware, and that they had all those Blizzard
Fans from Warcraft, Starcraft and Diablo .. and i bet without them it had also been
just another MMO.

In ANet’s case, we could also say GW1’s reputation helped GW2’s success.
The difference is that ANet didn’t know how to keep building on its success like what Blizzard did with WoW.

Dude, history is full of examples (exceptions) like WoW.

Youre making a case claiming you know how to win a lottery (or how some dude did it…truth is he just crossed the numbers and stars aligned)

Well, good luck with that.

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

WoW was successful because it was an amazing product at the time. Blizzard understood polish and maximize their games’ potentials. That’s why their 3 franchises (Warcraft, Diablo, Starcraft) are (were?) amazing. Of course, Blizzard today is not the same as Blizzard back in the old days.
ANet never figured out how to truly tap into GW2’s potential. That’s why it’s following the normal trend.

There’s simply no evidence available that if WoW didn’t have major competition and major funding for advertising that it would have done much worse.

We only know what happened. Attributing their success to any one thing and not an entire combination of factors is just theory.

The evidence is in their game, but thanks for derailing this topic because it’s not heading your way.

Actually its not in their game. Because every wow clone (which are actually better games in many aspects) would be as popular as wow.

So….no.

You call them WoW clones, so why bother playing them while knowing they are clones? Just play the original.
Where “WoW clones” may be better in a few aspect, WoW does better as a whole package. That’s why it remained popular in the first place.

So, yes!

You see, and thats why your claim is pretty much….not very applicable.

WoW was right product at the right place at the right time, not better or worse than the lot, nothing more noting less. Its not first product of that type and its not last. Stars align from time to time to allow that.

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people aren’t misled. GW2 being ‘neck and neck’ FF14 is misleading.
It’s ‘neck and neck’ with the PC version of FF14, however FF14 is on PS3/PS4, which obviously do not register on Xfire/Raptr.
Then there’s Wildstar, where people estimated it only sold under 500k at launch, based on NCSoft’s 2Q 2014 financials.
And here’s the Raptr ranking for Wildstar’s launch compared to GW2 (rank 6 vs rank 18, with a relative difference of ~3 times for hours played).
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-june-2014-wildstar-on-the-rise-steam-summer-sale-aftermath/

FFXIV is “neck to neck” with GW2 only on raptr, on xfire its no.20 with roughly 1/3 of GW2 numbers. Oh and FFXIV had crapton on discounts on Steam, you could buy it for 10$ at relaunch on Steam.
———————————-
And if you follow THAT line of thought, WoW only has 1 million subs (6,13% vs. 2,86%)

Why dont people THINK it trhough beore they post. Why dont you compare WS now against GW2?

My, my, someone’s so antsy today. Well, that’s ok. I thought you didn’t believe in these stats anyway.
Also, FF14 is on PS3/PS4.

WoW doesn’t have 1 million subs. As the Raptr blog says “The new MMO [WildStar] impacted the playtime of The Elder Scrolls Online, WoW, Dark Souls II, and Final Fantasy XIV Online, and was definitely a factor that led to those games slipping in the ranks.”
WildStar did target the WoW audience so it made sense it took some hours away from them.

Of course there’s no point in comparing GW2 to WildStar now. WS tried to capture a small target base, hardcore WoW players, and after the hype died down, players dropped out as you expect after hype dies down. With only 500k players, it’s expected to drop off the chart when players drop out.

Ye, but vast majority of players are on PC. You see, we can play this game all day long

Of course WoW doesnt have 1 million players, its dumb to compare WS launch month to WoW same as its dumb to compare WS launch month to GW2. And you did, for whatever purpose you had at the time.

Why is there no point to compare, its comapring 2 MMOs, 1 launched 2 years ago and one 3 months ago (which, as far as comaprsions go, YOU compared, so its only fair you comapre those NOW also, to get clearer picture) But as you say, it doesnt really suit you so theres no point comapring….to YOU ;D

Not sure what you’re trying to get at with WildStar now compared to GW2, that’s why I said no point. WildStar died down in popularity after the hype. And?

Well, you see, some people claim that no.12 after 2 years is disaster.

Its not very hard to get your numbers up there in launch month, hell, every MMO did it, BUT, being there after 2 years….bad?

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people aren’t misled. GW2 being ‘neck and neck’ FF14 is misleading.
It’s ‘neck and neck’ with the PC version of FF14, however FF14 is on PS3/PS4, which obviously do not register on Xfire/Raptr.
Then there’s Wildstar, where people estimated it only sold under 500k at launch, based on NCSoft’s 2Q 2014 financials.
And here’s the Raptr ranking for Wildstar’s launch compared to GW2 (rank 6 vs rank 18, with a relative difference of ~3 times for hours played).
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-june-2014-wildstar-on-the-rise-steam-summer-sale-aftermath/

FFXIV is “neck to neck” with GW2 only on raptr, on xfire its no.20 with roughly 1/3 of GW2 numbers. Oh and FFXIV had crapton on discounts on Steam, you could buy it for 10$ at relaunch on Steam.
———————————-
And if you follow THAT line of thought, WoW only has 1 million subs (6,13% vs. 2,86%)

Why dont people THINK it trhough beore they post. Why dont you compare WS now against GW2?

My, my, someone’s so antsy today. Well, that’s ok. I thought you didn’t believe in these stats anyway.
Also, FF14 is on PS3/PS4.

WoW doesn’t have 1 million subs. As the Raptr blog says “The new MMO [WildStar] impacted the playtime of The Elder Scrolls Online, WoW, Dark Souls II, and Final Fantasy XIV Online, and was definitely a factor that led to those games slipping in the ranks.”
WildStar did target the WoW audience so it made sense it took some hours away from them.

Of course there’s no point in comparing GW2 to WildStar now. WS tried to capture a small target base, hardcore WoW players, and after the hype died down, players dropped out as you expect after hype dies down. With only 500k players, it’s expected to drop off the chart when players drop out.

Ye, but vast majority of players are on PC. You see, we can play this game all day long

Of course WoW doesnt have 1 million players, its dumb to compare WS launch month to WoW same as its dumb to compare WS launch month to GW2. And you did, for whatever purpose you had at the time.

Why is there no point to compare, its comapring 2 MMOs, 1 launched 2 years ago and one 3 months ago (which, as far as comaprsions go, YOU compared, so its only fair you comapre those NOW also, to get clearer picture) But as you say, it doesnt really suit you so theres no point comapring….to YOU ;D

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

WoW was successful because it was an amazing product at the time. Blizzard understood polish and maximize their games’ potentials. That’s why their 3 franchises (Warcraft, Diablo, Starcraft) are (were?) amazing. Of course, Blizzard today is not the same as Blizzard back in the old days.
ANet never figured out how to truly tap into GW2’s potential. That’s why it’s following the normal trend.

There’s simply no evidence available that if WoW didn’t have major competition and major funding for advertising that it would have done much worse.

We only know what happened. Attributing their success to any one thing and not an entire combination of factors is just theory.

The evidence is in their game, but thanks for derailing this topic because it’s not heading your way.

Actually its not in their game. Because every wow clone (which are actually better games in many aspects) would be as popular as wow.

So….no.

Alex.9567:

yes with Quip:) it was coming sooner or later, anet had been testing to see how far they could stretch/push opposing parts of the playr base for a while now.

I think part of the reason the NPE blew up was not necessarily because it was solely to blame for everything, but because it became that one point that united a much larger part of the playr base enabling everyone to use it as a scape goat to vent built up frustration, I was thinking about it yesterday and for a moment these forums appeared to me as the classic historical scenario of peasants demanding/rebelling against their lords on failed promises etc, and the NPE being the fuel that sparked it to open rebellion.

I guess the lesson is that ppl arnt as dumb as big corps supposedly think, eventually if a company stops showing good faith to its loyal’s, resentment will start to build up, and it will only be a matter of time before it finds a way to be released.

Actually people are dumb becasue they dont focus on the important matter but insignificant thing as 9/9 update, which in grand scheme of things, is insignificant.

Trait change was/is much more “dangerous” to new players, while NPE could potentialy retain more players in early levels.

So yeah, dumb.

Oh, and trait change was requested by “community”. just as now some other things are requested by “community”, so theres that also.

DeceiverX.8361:

snip

So CEO of Blizzard doesnt know what hes talking about, and now you are here to write some stuff because you “work in the industry”

You may have your opnion, but opinions can be wrong too. And yours is in this matter.

WoW had/has TERRIBLE retention. What it DID have was crapzillion of people trying it. Same goes for LoL in a bit milder edition. And thats one luxury only a select games have (you can count those on fingers of one hand)

Corpus Christi.2057:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people aren’t misled. GW2 being ‘neck and neck’ FF14 is misleading.
It’s ‘neck and neck’ with the PC version of FF14, however FF14 is on PS3/PS4, which obviously do not register on Xfire/Raptr.
Then there’s Wildstar, where people estimated it only sold under 500k at launch, based on NCSoft’s 2Q 2014 financials.
And here’s the Raptr ranking for Wildstar’s launch compared to GW2 (rank 6 vs rank 18, with a relative difference of ~3 times for hours played).
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-june-2014-wildstar-on-the-rise-steam-summer-sale-aftermath/

You are right. GW2 is a successful MMO, but it’s hardly as successful as some people on these forums think it is.

So WoW is only successful MMO….ever?

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people aren’t misled. GW2 being ‘neck and neck’ FF14 is misleading.
It’s ‘neck and neck’ with the PC version of FF14, however FF14 is on PS3/PS4, which obviously do not register on Xfire/Raptr.
Then there’s Wildstar, where people estimated it only sold under 500k at launch, based on NCSoft’s 2Q 2014 financials.
And here’s the Raptr ranking for Wildstar’s launch compared to GW2 (rank 6 vs rank 18, with a relative difference of ~3 times for hours played).
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-june-2014-wildstar-on-the-rise-steam-summer-sale-aftermath/

FFXIV is “neck to neck” with GW2 only on raptr, on xfire its no.20 with roughly 1/3 of GW2 numbers. Oh and FFXIV had crapton on discounts on Steam, you could buy it for 10$ at relaunch on Steam.
———————————-
And if you follow THAT line of thought, WoW only has 1 million subs (6,13% vs. 2,86%)

Why dont people THINK it trhough beore they post. Why dont you compare WS now against GW2?

Paul.4081:

Paradox.1380:

Paul.4081:

Well, sites usually post numbers when they’re good. Not saying that necessarily makes GW2’s bad but I keep an eye on the Xfire numbers from time to time and they have dropped by a lot as with posters on GW2 Guru. They blame circular threads (?).

One of the main reasons (I personally believe) why people stop posting on Guru is because that forum is even MORE toxic than this one and they don’t have the same level of moderation as here.

I don’t know anything about Xfire so I can’t comment on that. But also, most games like THIS do not post their numbers ever, and when they do mention it they almost always put it in ballpark generic figures.

Xfire’s numbers have dropped from tens of thousands to 400, unless the Xfire community are special snowflakes….

And (personal opinion) about guru, you can have a discussion over there without a mod deeming your post locky McDeletable!

I’ve rambled here and I’ve rambled there, I’ve only ever felt punished for it here.

Painting pretty picure without context….tsk tsk…on xfire GW2 is currently no.11 with regular dips to top 10. Only WoW is above GW2 on XFire for MMOs.

Vayne.8563:

Paul.4081:

Paradox.1380:

Paul.4081:

Well, sites usually post numbers when they’re good. Not saying that necessarily makes GW2’s bad but I keep an eye on the Xfire numbers from time to time and they have dropped by a lot as with posters on GW2 Guru. They blame circular threads (?).

One of the main reasons (I personally believe) why people stop posting on Guru is because that forum is even MORE toxic than this one and they don’t have the same level of moderation as here.

I don’t know anything about Xfire so I can’t comment on that. But also, most games like THIS do not post their numbers ever, and when they do mention it they almost always put it in ballpark generic figures.

Xfire’s numbers have dropped from tens of thousands to 400, unless the Xfire community are special snowflakes….

And (personal opinion) about guru, you can have a discussion over there without a mod deeming your post locky McDeletable!

I’ve rambled here and I’ve rambled there, I’ve only ever felt punished for it here.

Guild Wars 2 is the #11 game on Xfire. Go to games and search on Guild Wars 2. It says Guild Wars 2 is ranked 11 in the Xfire rank box.

That means on Xfire, Guild Wars 2 is the second most popular MMO. Only WoW is more popular.

Now Xfire, Raptr and Overwolf all seem to be saying much the same thing.

they are all rigged and lying! it just cannot be…it cannot

DeceiverX.8361:

MikaHR.1978:

“Look at League of Legends’ success; even World of Warcraft’s. High-level strategies are apparent in even the lowest level tiers of play for brand new players. in League, and the tutorial for WoW throws the player right into the world with minimal tutorial interfaces or restrictions. Yet the retention rates in both games are incredibly high.”

Im sorry, but you say you “work in the industry”?

please provide some backup on this, because its simply…..not true.

stopped reading after that

League is the most-played game in the world. With a DAILY retention rate of over 33%. DAILY. That’s a HUGE figure in games, and their success is entirely dependent on non-monetization.
Source: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/223071/Dont_monetize_like_League_of_Legends_consultant_says.php

WoW is still the most-played MMORPG in the western market by an extremely large margin. Clearly, people are sticking around for that one to such extents that it dwarfs others. There has also been extensive research done on the subject.
http://www.artifex.org/~bonnie/WoW_retention_04_24_11.pdf

Now, what’s more intriguing is where your evidence is that states that these games do not have high retention rates, since you claim that this is not at all true?

“As of 2013, League of Legends had earned: 70 million registrations since 2009, 32 million MAU, 12 million DAU, 3 million PCU”

You didnt read your own article. Its still nice, and by the looks of new MMO releases…very good. But its not MMO.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.174642-Only-30-Percent-of-WoW-Players-Get-Past-Level-10

And thats only past level 10, many more get lost on the way.

And its a nice read concerning NPE ina way.

Charrbeque.8729:

I don’t like the idea of weapon skills being locked and all of them automatically unlocking as you level up.

I liked it the way it was before, being able to unlock them myself. When I was a new player to this game I saw it as an incentive to unlock all weapon skills for my profession as soon as possible. While working to unlock weapon skills it made me stick with a weapon for a while causing me to familiarize myself with it. By the time I had all weapon skills unlocked for all weapons I was able to decide which type of weapon is best for my playstyle.

Now with weapon skills automatically unlocking for each weapon as you level up, there is no incentive for a new player to ever try out a different weapon. Some players may just use whatever type of weapon their character starts with and stick with it for a very long time before they decide to ever try out anything else.

Actually there was no incentive for player to trynew weapon and goes back to 11111111111111111 so he would stick with what he already had unlocked.

And that is especially true for people that already wanted to play “big sword warrior” “longbow ranger” “mace+shield gardian” “staff ekemenalist” as they would unlock that and had o desire to go back to 111111111111 with other weapons.

“Look at League of Legends’ success; even World of Warcraft’s. High-level strategies are apparent in even the lowest level tiers of play for brand new players. in League, and the tutorial for WoW throws the player right into the world with minimal tutorial interfaces or restrictions. Yet the retention rates in both games are incredibly high.”

Im sorry, but you say you “work in the industry”?

please provide some backup on this, because its simply…..not true.

stopped reading after that

Kuldebar.1897:

MikaHR.1978:

But to be fair, that one falls on the community.

People keep saying that, it’s meaningless even if it was objectively (which it isn’t) objectively true.

This amorphous mass, called community, who the hell are they? Wasn’t me, I guess I’m not part of that organism.

Lest we get confused by the facts, let me summarize:

Yes, there were players who wanted ANet to implement an ELITE Trait Capture system similar to the original GW’s Elite Skill Capture…

Did ANet deliver? Well, not exactly, they converted the entire EXISTING Traits and threw in a few new ones (which was very nice) and converted the whole shebang over to this unlock acquisition system we have now.

So, let’s put down the koolaid and acknowledge that the true onus of the Trait Changes were ANet and their wonky way of interpreting what players actually want.

It’s more an art than a science. ANet is great at science, but it is the “art” part that kicks their backsides time and time again.

Treating every problem like a nail in need of hammering can only get you so far.

Nope, you actually touched the essence of the matter.

There are bunch of people who now claim that they are community.

So in a few months you will have people saying stuff just like you say now: i surely didnt want that, who is this community?

And why should Anet listen to those who claim they are community now? While obviously they listened to community before and you have what you have.

And yeah, listening to those who yell the loudest…..im just glad SOME devs finally put them in their place, as at some point they became much more damaging to the game than they are worth.

And, oh yeah, better healing – who asked for that one? You have 1 guess.

papryk.6273:

MikaHR.1978:

papryk.6273:

Expansion confirmed because Vayne says so!
…even if anet said recently otherwise…

Hell, what other games call “expansions” these days, you already got more just in LS 2 ;P

You sure about that?
http://riftgrate.com/3-0-content/

I would like to see this amount of content added in GW2 …ever

Actually Rift always had quite a quick conent updates, but they launched with pretty much least content ever and focused on dungeons/raiding and that was their downfall.

Also, it was most accurate WoW clone, and they didnt even hide it ;P

Romek.4201:

Vayne.8563:

Romek.4201:

why a gamer should care bout how easy or not easy it is to make a good game?

a gamer dont make the game he buy it and he play it and when game is not fun he delete it

its that simple

Yep. A gamer shouldn’t care. Still missing my point.

I’m playing Guild Wars 2 for two years. Two years later, Guild Wars 2 is still in the top 20 in Raptr and the top ten in Overwolf. 2 years. Evidence they’ve made a good game, because if it were a bad game, we wouldn’t be in the top 20.

After all ESO and Wildstar are much newer and they’re not. Therefore the game must at least be good. Or why would people still be playing it. It may not be to everyone’s taste. That’s another story. But the odds are if it weren’t a good game, it wouldn’t be in the top 20.

Now it could be a better game, true. So can every game.

this list is not top 20 games – its a top 20 played by raptr comunity (they even write this in the post – just scroll down a bit)
its same with overwolf – most games dont have a use for this and so its normal that games which have a strong supourt for this are high (and yes the api and how wvw works strongly supourts overwolf)

there are other sites out where you can get a feel whats played by ALL GAMERS and are not so biased

just go twitch and check the streams by streams/viewers and you get a feel what GAMERS play or care about
http://www.twitch.tv/directory
and scroll down – and for me this looks much more acurat

but anway – move on

No, by looking at twitch you only get a feel which game people like WATCHING more than PLAYING

And ALL sites like raptr paint similar picture, so, yeah, all of those are wrong and YOU are right. But anyway – move on

Beldin.5498:

Vayne.8563:

I’m playing Guild Wars 2 for two years. Two years later, Guild Wars 2 is still in the top 20 in Raptr and the top ten in Overwolf. 2 years. Evidence they’ve made a good game, because if it were a bad game, we wouldn’t be in the top 20.

After all ESO and Wildstar are much newer and they’re not. Therefore the game must at least be good. Or why would people still be playing it. It may not be to everyone’s taste. That’s another story. But the odds are if it weren’t a good game, it wouldn’t be in the top 20.

Now it could be a better game, true. So can every game.

Haha .. its so funny for me to see how Wildstar was even before GW2 in July and is
already out in August in the Raptr list.

So yeah .. we need more hardcore content to save GW2 .. Wildstar is the best proof for that

Well, you do need SOME hardcore content, but what hardcores should understand:

youll get as much HC content as is warranted (very little) in AAA MMO
you cannot expect better/“unique” rewards, if you like HC content doing it is intrisic reward

papryk.6273:

Expansion confirmed because Vayne says so!
…even if anet said recently otherwise…

They always said they will put in expansion worth of content…just not in traditional expansion format.

Hell, what other games call “expansions” these days, you already got more just in LS 2 ;P

Romek.4201:

MikaHR.1978:

So GW2 is in an “awful” #12…..

But where are ESO and WS, 2 most hyped MMOs in history that launched only couple of months ago?

Aw, darn

the comparison with only kitten games dont work – cause GAMERS have the option and are not limited to games who are even worse than gw2

Aww, if #12 means its dreadfull, theres only few good games out there to play, i mean Skyrim, Civ 5…. …. … are SO DAM AWFUL

Dude. In first 10 you have some of the most succesful game in history.

GW2 being close to those in no universe spells what you wan it to spell.

And you are welcome to play any of those top 10 games, besides Minecraft i think all of those are pure crap

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

Ohoni.6057:

Raptr and Steam’s rankings for LoL, WoW & Dota2 prove what the game developers says about their games.
If you want to refuse to believe those as well, then be my guest.

My point is that while Raptr and Steam’s rankings might be concurrent for those specific games, that doesn’t necessarily mean that they would also be concurrent with other games. What is so difficult to understand about that?

What leads you to believe GW2 differs wildly from the norm?
For a game that’s sold 3.5-4 million and is 2 years old, this concurrency seems reasonable even if you think the margin of error is large.

Since raptr tracks what it tracks (hours NOT players in charts) you would have to know what is average play time/player/day.

Also, some games have more “need” for such programs and in such more players will be inclined to use it.

Also there have been numerous promotions for certain games which drove higher usage of raptr in such games (example is Rift and free expansion if you used raptr)

So you would end up with whole slew of coefficients that would vary between games and would barely be in ballpark area (game A might have coefficent of 2,3 game B migth have 0,75)

Well, if you mention Rift, then it sounds like it has perhaps been (is?) skewed towards MMO players a little?
According to some old surveys, MMO players average 21-22 hours per week.
Hmm…maybe you’re right then, maybe it’s a bit lower than the Steam concurrency numbers.

thats the point, you dont know. Even among MMOs average daily played can be vastly different depending on type of game.

And yes, some games had promotions other didnt.

Theres really no way to correlate 2 games directly, and theres no data to make it even remotely accurate.

From raptr you can get trends and on individual game basis. Reading more into it is quite pointless and missleading.

So GW2 is in an “awful” #12…..

But where are ESO and WS, 2 most hyped MMOs in history that launched only couple of months ago?

Aw, darn

Kuldebar.1897:

MikaHR.1978:

Ehm, 1 question:

What exactly is now gated that wasnt gated before?

There was plenty of stuff gated before, now we have more gating with April and September’s Feature Packs.

Some Examples:

• Elite used to unlock at level 30, now it is level 40.

• Traits used to be level 10, now it’s level 30.

• Personal Story unlocks at lvl 10 instead of at the beginning.

but there really is no more gating since all those things were already gated before.

just a little rearranged

and yes, traits are a bit (read a lot) on bad side now, but those were gated before.

But to be fair, that one falls on the community.