I feel that a lot of reward structure feels broken. Whether because they’re trying to make something “difficult” to get, or just because it was literally broken á la Final Rest which for the longest time just felt like a rumor because it almost never dropped. Then one day it started dropping properly and it dropped from a 50G weapon, to a 5G weapon.
Just give everything a non-rng alternative to everything. Personally I’d rather have something behind a grind-wall than pure chance wall. At least if I know there’s a non-rng alternative I will eventually get it. Where as when something is just behind the RNG barrier, there’s no guarantee you’ll ever get it. This has been proven time and time again with chests, bags, etc. When an object supposedly has a 1 in a thousand chance to drop and someone opens 2,000 bags and still doesn’t get it, the system proves itself to be significantly broken. Sure someone will say that others were opening the items around the person and that the 1 in a thousand chance covers all players, but that’s why the system feels so broken. If someone puts the work in to get 2k bags (like at halloween and this HAS happened) and they don’t get that RNG locked item they’re going to be upset. RNG locked rewards is broken, to prove this take into consideration this, if you could only access a piece of content, dungeon/map/instance on an RNG based chance, 1 in a thousand, and you could NEVER get in, would you be happy about it? Would ANYONE be happy about that?
OTOH, forum is full of people that claim GW2 sucks because everything is so easy and eveyone has everything and thers lack of “unique” items.
So enlighten us all how to slove this?
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
And you HAVE TO HAVE full set of dungeon/ascended armor in GW2 because?
How do you progress in WoW without grinding same dungeons/raids over and over again? How do you get that gear that you HAVE TO HAVE if you dont run dungeons/raids at all?
A full ascended set in WvW, which is end content by the way, makes difference. If a person wants a better experience of that game mode without relying on big groups, ascended is a good call.
When someone talks about dungeon tokens, now with wardrobe they want the skin, but I am pretty sure they want the tokens for the variety of stats. They don’t need to HAVE to have, but they need to have in case want to try different builds, which require different gear stats. I am one of those that likes to try different builds from time to time to try to optimize my experience as a player. Now where do I get the gear I need? Dungeons of course, if I don’t want to pay to craft them.
So as you can see, it is not just as you said HAVE TO HAVE. There is a purpose behind it.
I would like a more challenging end content for PvE as well. Before the introduction of megaservers, I used to solo champs or duo with a friend and at the time that was enough to entertain us, but now with the maps full and people farming everywhere, it is almost impossible and discouraging to see people pressing 1 in a rush before the “zerg” melt the champs in a few seconds. Now if I want a challenge go duo AC and HoTW exploration or even CoE story but still I think it is due time the game introduce something different than Living Story.
It is and it makes a small difference. Ascended is pointless gear outside of fractals. Its a gear with a bit bigger stats for a sake of a bit bigger stats and as such its not a requirement or must have in any way. And its redundant.
You can get greater variety in stats outside of dungeons. I dont know which game are you talking about because you certainly dont have to run single dungeon for any stat combination. Opposed to WoW where you either farm same dungeons/raids or quit the game. Because if you fail gear check youre out anyway. Thats what HAVE TO HAVE means.
There is as much challenging content as is warranted. If pretty much nobody wants to do challenging content its not worth making (no, bribing players to do it is not the proof of any kind, and even with all the bribes not many people do it anyways)
Ascended gear isn’t completely pointless, also there is one additional factor ascended gear has more than it’s 5% increase of stats. Ascended stuff has an infusion slot, meaning you could with a full set of ascended, you could get a number of stat increases using the infusion slots. They don’t have to be used strictly for agony resistance.
Outside of fractals its completely pointless (as i alreadysaid). It serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever.
If you can name 1 actual purpose (except stat raise for a sake of stat raise), well, be my guest.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
I keep seeing people post about how endgame dungeons in other games are just a gear grind where you just run the dungeon over and over and it isn’t any fun.
I have to wonder if those people have ever actually played an MMO before, including GW2.
In WoW, the most called upon offender of this stereotype you generally have 2-3 pieces of gear per dungeon that your class/build can use. This means you may need to run the dungeon 10-12 times if you are really unlucky. The token system prevents needing any more runs than this.
Now lets compare that “terrible rng grind” to what is offered in GW2… in order to get a full set of dungeon armor, you need ~1300 dungeon tokens… you get 60 tokens per run of the dungeon… This means you need to grind out 22 dungeon runs in order to get the full set of armor. This is almost DOUBLE the WORST case scenario in WoW.
And of course that only gets you exotic armor. In order to get ascended armor you need 800+ gold. Trust me, you don’t want me to compare the number of raids in WoW you need to complete to the amount of grinding you need to do for ascended armor… it is quite embarrassing to GW2, the “no grind” game.
An endgame like WoW is much more casual and less grindy than the current endgame in GW2.
On top of all that, WoW offers different difficulty modes for different skill level players, while GW2 only offers super easy mode.
And you HAVE TO HAVE full set of dungeon/ascended armor in GW2 because?
How do you progress in WoW without grinding same dungeons/raids over and over again? How do you get that gear that you HAVE TO HAVE if you dont run dungeons/raids at all?
I don’t HAVE to even play the game… so I fail to see what that has to do with anything?
How do you progress in GW2 without getting exotic or ascended armor?
You also don’t HAVE to do that in WoW. You can do regular mode and do lfr with basic gear is you just want to see the story… just like gw2…
You can do dungeons in GW2 naked, and if you dont have enough resources for a full set of exotic the moment you hit 80 youre doing something wrong.
There really is no gear progress in GW2. You progress your skill, you start with best possible gear until you canmange naked. Try that in WoW.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Lol! Want to talk about Heavy Armor class with mobility? As illogical as it seems… I’ll counter you with female characters that wear what seems to be completely nothing being able to tank more than male characters that look like they can hold back a moving train. This is a game. Logic isn’t here, sadly.
When it affects base stats, they should carry the logic through. A heavy armor class has higher base stats, therefore there should be a con to counteract that.
Male or female does not affect base stats, neither does how much flesh the armor shows, so that doesn’t bother me.
I wear ancestral outfit, so, there you go if it bothers you SO much
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
You wont catch a thief is he has even a bit of skill.
And yeah, talking about realism and drawing a line at “how can heavy armor have a great mobility”? Really? (not about warriors per se, but really more about drawing lines and reality ;P )
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
And you HAVE TO HAVE full set of dungeon/ascended armor in GW2 because?
How do you progress in WoW without grinding same dungeons/raids over and over again? How do you get that gear that you HAVE TO HAVE if you dont run dungeons/raids at all?
A full ascended set in WvW, which is end content by the way, makes difference. If a person wants a better experience of that game mode without relying on big groups, ascended is a good call.
When someone talks about dungeon tokens, now with wardrobe they want the skin, but I am pretty sure they want the tokens for the variety of stats. They don’t need to HAVE to have, but they need to have in case want to try different builds, which require different gear stats. I am one of those that likes to try different builds from time to time to try to optimize my experience as a player. Now where do I get the gear I need? Dungeons of course, if I don’t want to pay to craft them.
So as you can see, it is not just as you said HAVE TO HAVE. There is a purpose behind it.
I would like a more challenging end content for PvE as well. Before the introduction of megaservers, I used to solo champs or duo with a friend and at the time that was enough to entertain us, but now with the maps full and people farming everywhere, it is almost impossible and discouraging to see people pressing 1 in a rush before the “zerg” melt the champs in a few seconds. Now if I want a challenge go duo AC and HoTW exploration or even CoE story but still I think it is due time the game introduce something different than Living Story.
It is and it makes a small difference. Ascended is pointless gear outside of fractals. Its a gear with a bit bigger stats for a sake of a bit bigger stats and as such its not a requirement or must have in any way. And its redundant.
You can get greater variety in stats outside of dungeons. I dont know which game are you talking about because you certainly dont have to run single dungeon for any stat combination. Opposed to WoW where you either farm same dungeons/raids or quit the game. Because if you fail gear check youre out anyway. Thats what HAVE TO HAVE means.
There is as much challenging content as is warranted. If pretty much nobody wants to do challenging content its not worth making (no, bribing players to do it is not the proof of any kind, and even with all the bribes not many people do it anyways)
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.
Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.
Its pretty simple:
Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P
By that definition then GW2 is F2P.
Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.
All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.
Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)
I dont understand why people are trying to cram “sub” into the definition of “free”.
Cash shop items are optional.
Sub game fees are not.
What you get for your money is irrelevant. The question to be addressed is “does the game force you to pay to receive key features or not?”
the problem with your definition is that “key features” is vague, and different people will interpret it differently
Ability to access and play the game is not vague at all.
Tell you what, try to play WoW or EvE without paying a sub, then try to play all those other games and then return to report which ones are sub based and which ones are F2P.
by your definition a great many the subscription type services in the world(not just games) are free because there exists a way to access those services in a limited amount/fashion without paying a subscription.
Same as you can play WoW for free to lvl 20 or have 2 weeks free trial in EvE.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.
Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.
Its pretty simple:
Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P
By that definition then GW2 is F2P.
Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.
All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.
Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)
subscription doesnt mean you only get access to the game if you pay, it means you recieve a limited service for as long as you pay a fee. When you stop paying that fee, you lose the service.
for example champions online, with a sub you get access to a special type of charachter(think of a customizable proffession that can use skills from any jobs), all bank slots, hideouts, access to all special missions, but only WHILE you pay for the subscription. Once you stop playing you only have access to things free players have. You cant access your special charachters, or areas you once had access to, without buying them specifically.
essentially the subscription is not like buying a bundle of cash shop items, it is subscribing to a higher teir of service. Once your subscription runs out you no longer have access to anything from that higher teir.
they are very much a hybrid model, and are a bit different in goal, and monetization strategy than f2p or subscription by itself.
Look at the bolded part.
Actually they copied F2P games very good. If you actually played any F2P game you would know that many (if not all) have 30 days “bundle” with various “perks” that costs 10-15$.
“Sub” is just leftover term because of familiarity.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.
Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.
Its pretty simple:
Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P
By that definition then GW2 is F2P.
Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.
All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.
Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)
I dont understand why people are trying to cram “sub” into the definition of “free”.
Cash shop items are optional.
Sub game fees are not.
What you get for your money is irrelevant. The question to be addressed is “does the game force you to pay to receive key features or not?”
the problem with your definition is that “key features” is vague, and different people will interpret it differently
Ability to access and play the game is not vague at all.
Tell you what, try to play WoW or EvE without paying a sub, then try to play all those other games and then return to report which ones are sub based and which ones are F2P.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.
Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.
Its pretty simple:
Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P
By that definition then GW2 is F2P.
Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.
All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.
Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)
I dont understand why people are trying to cram “sub” into the definition of “free”.
Cash shop items are optional.
Sub game fees are not.
What you get for your money is irrelevant. The question to be addressed is “does the game force you to pay to receive key features or not?”
Pretty much, it is very simple. “Sub” is a familaiar term so they left it in, theres also bunch of people that freak out on F2P mention so they feel a bit more comfortable if they see word “sub”.
It could easily be called “item/feature bundle”.
Its just a fact that people who put that list up are very sloppy about it.
It is hilarious, list of “top 10 sub games” where only 2/10 games are actually sub based. But then that site has been pretty much brushed aside, its just another “random internet analyst” trying to guess numbers, as theres not enough of them.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.
Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.
Its pretty simple:
Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P
By that definition then GW2 is F2P.
Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.
All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.
Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
I keep seeing people post about how endgame dungeons in other games are just a gear grind where you just run the dungeon over and over and it isn’t any fun.
I have to wonder if those people have ever actually played an MMO before, including GW2.
In WoW, the most called upon offender of this stereotype you generally have 2-3 pieces of gear per dungeon that your class/build can use. This means you may need to run the dungeon 10-12 times if you are really unlucky. The token system prevents needing any more runs than this.
Now lets compare that “terrible rng grind” to what is offered in GW2… in order to get a full set of dungeon armor, you need ~1300 dungeon tokens… you get 60 tokens per run of the dungeon… This means you need to grind out 22 dungeon runs in order to get the full set of armor. This is almost DOUBLE the WORST case scenario in WoW.
And of course that only gets you exotic armor. In order to get ascended armor you need 800+ gold. Trust me, you don’t want me to compare the number of raids in WoW you need to complete to the amount of grinding you need to do for ascended armor… it is quite embarrassing to GW2, the “no grind” game.
An endgame like WoW is much more casual and less grindy than the current endgame in GW2.
On top of all that, WoW offers different difficulty modes for different skill level players, while GW2 only offers super easy mode.
And you HAVE TO HAVE full set of dungeon/ascended armor in GW2 because?
How do you progress in WoW without grinding same dungeons/raids over and over again? How do you get that gear that you HAVE TO HAVE if you dont run dungeons/raids at all?
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
I do like financial analysis that ignores exchange rates because all experts know they have no meaning .
Thats too deep for this (and similar) forums since most people dont even grasp that if game sold 1000000 units @60$ revenue wasnt 60000000$ ;P , let alone profit
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
As long as a F2P MMO was once a subscription only game and now offers an optional subscription plan to get access to the same things as before the game went F2P, at the same cost, it counts as a subscription game. You may not like that definition but that’s the definition the industry is using.
The true purpose is to have the F2P be an unlimited trial of an MMO with enough barriers that if a player truly like the game, they would be inclined to pay the $15 a month, less in bulk, than be nickeled and dimed the entire time.
Since Turbine demonstrated that this works, just about every MMO that was once subscription in NA has gone this route. None to my knowledge has gone from subscription to pure F2P, it would simply alienate their original paying customers. That’s why people are counting the days until ESO and WildStar does the same. I think SWTOR has the record at 9 months.
You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.
The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.
Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.
Its pretty simple:
Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no → P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes → F2P
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
You weren’t asking for what the content is, you were asking for challenging content outside the latest instances, and I gave a clear answer:)
The fact if they are just health+damage upped bosses is another discussion. I just answered your question.
And like I said, Garuda on NORMAL mode is already more challenging than most dungeons in this game. And he isn’t just an upscaled boss, he is a boss you encouter somewhere in your 40’s.
Yeah, sorry, theres rehashed instances from launch with moar health/damage too faints
That also doesnt really help your point rofl
As i said, raising health/damage is easiest thing that can be done. Not to mention they also charge you 15/month for THAT
If you consider FFXIV hardcore/challenging game…well, yeah lol
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Note that “experts” didnt even notice half of those games arent even sub based. Thats ought to tell you their “expertise”
And no, youre wrong, Wildstar had preorders and reelase in 1 quarter, so if you add 45+119 and the deduce like 40ish for 1 extra month you end up with 119-ish for GW2 (preorders+release month). Anyway, WS is not even in ballpark to GW2. It actually has to survive to 2 years mark yet
Apples to apples please.
I don’t know how you get more Apples to Apples than the quarterly statements. GW2 went live Aug 28th, 2012 so 34 days for 3rd quarter sales ending Sept 30th. WildStar went live June 3rd, 2014 so 28 days for 2nd quarter sales ending June 30th. Both had just as much time for preorders.
As for some of those games aren’t sub-based. They are all, just not everywhere and they include games with a Hybrid business model (ie optional subscription).
Actual sales werent reported until next quarter and 45m is just for preorders.
SWTOR is F2P
LOTRO is F2P
RIFT is F2P
TERA is F2P
Aion is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
L2 is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
B&S is F2P or B2P in china afaik
Even WoW is not sub based in China heh, but thats another story alltogether (and why they are allowed to lump it with total subs)
game having some sort of alternate (optional) “subscription plan” doesnt make it sub based. What, now GW2 is sub based because it has “vip” option in China?
The only sub based games on that list are WoW, L1 and EvE. 3/10 for a “list of sub based games” lol
Ah, no they were reported in the 3Q12 and 2Q14 quarterly reports for GW2 and WildStar respectively. You can look it up yourself at NCSOFT’s corporate website under IR earnings release.
SWTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
LOTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
RIFT is hybrid and was subscription only once
TERA is hybrid and was subscription only once
B&S like Lineage I, Lineage II and AION is subscription based in South Korea and several other areas in Asia.
Lineage II and AION were subscription based when they first came to the NA market and also embrace the hybrid model now in NA.
Like I said, if they offer a subscription VIP level and were once subscription or they are subscription somewhere else other than NA, it counts as a subscription game.
Not to mention that almost all of these games require a purchase or a sub in order to unlock certain things that are considered normal features for most games like talents/traits, bag space, the ability to quick travel etc so basically they are forcing people to at least sub once which imo is no different than forcing players to buy their traits or get enough gold together to get the enchants they need to enhance their gear at level 80 properly. This is not a simple B2P game if gold were not tied to directly to progression there would be no issue but it is for alts and for new players.
You mean those are exatcly like other F2P games where you have an option to drop some cash each month to ease “progression woes”.
Yep which pretty much breaks the whole myth of this game being B2P which was my point exactly. It’s like that ruling in the UK recently where a judge made it illegal to call a game free to play or any variation thereof if at any time players are forced even indirectly to pay real money for the purpose of progression of any kind. That’s what people consider B2P you pay once to buy the game the rest is absolutely free until you purchase an expansion, it’s simply wrong in the case of this title. What’s worse is that people are actually trying to advocate for this kind of eastern style economy in other titles that are newly ported to the west as if they are the holy grail when nothing could be further from the truth and they actively attack anyone who says anything about how they are being taken advantage of, sound familiar?
What exactly do you HAVE TO pay for to progress in GW2. Im curious, i have 11 80-ies and i didnt have to pay for anything? Elaborate on that, maybe i missed something progressing 11 characters to max level to completely progress without being forced to pay for anything.
And, just for record, nobody called GW2 F2P game, dont know where you got that.
AND i got much more of everything that i got for FREE in GW2 after the initial purchase than i got from all that wasted sub money since i strted playing MMOs in 2002. So yeah, theres that also.
But i agree, for instance, SWTOR has abbysmal F2P model thats based on just gambling boxes (its just a matter of time until taxman look into that) and recolored stuff AND buying freaking pieces of UI lol
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
This feels like a bit of a misnomer. I don’t think you paid Anet to produce specific content and if you did, I’m not quite sure what to tell you.
I give money to companies that are doing stuff I like to support those companies, but I have zero control over what they actually do. I’m not sure what gave anyone the idea that Anet would make more and more challenging content over any other type of content.
Indeed, you have no control, but you EXPECT certain things from certain companies. You expect from a MMO company that they will use SOME of your money to produce more content. That’s the same that I expect from my bank, who charges me a bit of money every 3 months for having a bank account, that SOME of that money will go to improving security for things like online banking.
But they did add it. As much as its warranted. And they will add more. As much as its warranted.
Theres very low demand for it. You will have to accept it, the sooner the better.
Same as hardcores will have to accept that they dont really matter in the grand scheme of things.
I already accepted it by not playing this game anymore. But my passion for this game keeps me returning to this forum to DISCUSS this type of things. If I would accept everything that isn’t to my liking, well, thats not how life works. If you deem something worth fighting and discussing for, you do it.
Most of the players who share(a portion) of my opinion, already left the game. But it’s their passion that they still want to improve this game in the way they think is better.
No problem, fight for the cause
But its the state of things (not just in GW2). AAA MMOs really aint place for challenges/hardcores and i really dont know why people demand it in AAA MMOs. Its just not financially feasisble (just look at “WoW was dumbed down” claims everywhere, duh, of course it was)
Really? AAA MMO’s aint a place for challenges and hardcores?
Let me sum up some AAA MMO’s and see if they ARE the place for challenges/hardcores.
WoW(easy example, I admit:( – check
FF14 – check
Rift – check
Lotro – check
TeSO – check
Challenging/hardcore things maybe aren’t always the CORE in those games, but at least it’s there.
And? Where is all that “hardcore” content in those games?
WoW – well few instances at endgame can be considered “challenging”
FFXIV – 1 instance at endgame
RIFT – 1 instance at endgame
LOTRO doesnt have hardcore content any more (they even drop the raids and you might want to check why he he) but when it did have it it was 1 instance a endgme
TESO – hardcore content? where exactly lol
Now that you mentioned it, GW2 has more challenging/hardore content than those games combined be thankful
Instances arent the only challenging/hardcore content a mmo can deliver.
True,but that doesnt really help your point
It actually does. But if you think it’s not, thats fine though. But according to you, what challenging content in it’s widest sense does gw2 offer you?
Really? Please elaborate where is oh so challenging content outside the latest instance in those games.
Try primals on extreme mode in ff14 for example, more challenging than every dungeon is this game combined.
Hell, garuda on normal mode is already more challenging than most dungeons in here.
Ahh, you mean rehashed single boss instances from launch with moar health/damage that require just moar gear grind? lol
I just wonder what will they call them next “ultra super jaw braking mode – nau moar damage and moar health” and, just moar gear grind.
You are aware that they can just raise health/damage levels and call it “ultra mode”. And yes, nobody would play it same as nobody plays stuff thats ingame now lol
AND dont forget youredone with this “hardcore” endgame in FFXIV in 2-3 hours/week. Yeah, awesome lol
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Note that “experts” didnt even notice half of those games arent even sub based. Thats ought to tell you their “expertise”
And no, youre wrong, Wildstar had preorders and reelase in 1 quarter, so if you add 45+119 and the deduce like 40ish for 1 extra month you end up with 119-ish for GW2 (preorders+release month). Anyway, WS is not even in ballpark to GW2. It actually has to survive to 2 years mark yet
Apples to apples please.
I don’t know how you get more Apples to Apples than the quarterly statements. GW2 went live Aug 28th, 2012 so 34 days for 3rd quarter sales ending Sept 30th. WildStar went live June 3rd, 2014 so 28 days for 2nd quarter sales ending June 30th. Both had just as much time for preorders.
As for some of those games aren’t sub-based. They are all, just not everywhere and they include games with a Hybrid business model (ie optional subscription).
Actual sales werent reported until next quarter and 45m is just for preorders.
SWTOR is F2P
LOTRO is F2P
RIFT is F2P
TERA is F2P
Aion is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
L2 is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
B&S is F2P or B2P in china afaik
Even WoW is not sub based in China heh, but thats another story alltogether (and why they are allowed to lump it with total subs)
game having some sort of alternate (optional) “subscription plan” doesnt make it sub based. What, now GW2 is sub based because it has “vip” option in China?
The only sub based games on that list are WoW, L1 and EvE. 3/10 for a “list of sub based games” lol
Ah, no they were reported in the 3Q12 and 2Q14 quarterly reports for GW2 and WildStar respectively. You can look it up yourself at NCSOFT’s corporate website under IR earnings release.
SWTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
LOTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
RIFT is hybrid and was subscription only once
TERA is hybrid and was subscription only once
B&S like Lineage I, Lineage II and AION is subscription based in South Korea and several other areas in Asia.
Lineage II and AION were subscription based when they first came to the NA market and also embrace the hybrid model now in NA.
Like I said, if they offer a subscription VIP level and were once subscription or they are subscription somewhere else other than NA, it counts as a subscription game.
Not to mention that almost all of these games require a purchase or a sub in order to unlock certain things that are considered normal features for most games like talents/traits, bag space, the ability to quick travel etc so basically they are forcing people to at least sub once which imo is no different than forcing players to buy their traits or get enough gold together to get the enchants they need to enhance their gear at level 80 properly. This is not a simple B2P game if gold were not tied to directly to progression there would be no issue but it is for alts and for new players.
You mean those are exatcly like other F2P games where you have an option to drop some cash each month to ease “progression woes”.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Note that “experts” didnt even notice half of those games arent even sub based. Thats ought to tell you their “expertise”
And no, youre wrong, Wildstar had preorders and reelase in 1 quarter, so if you add 45+119 and the deduce like 40ish for 1 extra month you end up with 119-ish for GW2 (preorders+release month). Anyway, WS is not even in ballpark to GW2. It actually has to survive to 2 years mark yet
Apples to apples please.
I don’t know how you get more Apples to Apples than the quarterly statements. GW2 went live Aug 28th, 2012 so 34 days for 3rd quarter sales ending Sept 30th. WildStar went live June 3rd, 2014 so 28 days for 2nd quarter sales ending June 30th. Both had just as much time for preorders.
As for some of those games aren’t sub-based. They are all, just not everywhere and they include games with a Hybrid business model (ie optional subscription).
Actual sales werent reported until next quarter and 45m is just for preorders.
SWTOR is F2P
LOTRO is F2P
RIFT is F2P
TERA is F2P
Aion is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
L2 is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
B&S is F2P or B2P in china afaik
Even WoW is not sub based in China heh, but thats another story alltogether (and why they are allowed to lump it with total subs)
game having some sort of alternate (optional) “subscription plan” doesnt make it sub based. What, now GW2 is sub based because it has “vip” option in China?
The only sub based games on that list are WoW, L1 and EvE. 3/10 for a “list of sub based games” lol
Ah, no they were reported in the 3Q12 and 2Q14 quarterly reports. You can look it up yourself at NCSOFT’s corporate website under IR earnings release.
SWTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
LOTOR is hybrid and was subscription only once
RIFT is hybrid and was subscription only once
B&S like Lineage I, Lineage II and AION is subscription based in South Korea and several other areas in Asia.
Lineage II and AION were subscription based when they first came to the NA market.
Like I said, if they offer a subscription VIP level and were once subscription or they are subscription somewhere else other than NA, it counts as a subscription game.
Yeah but no. But nevermind, next quarter will show much beter picture.
redefining what sub based means….rofl Even their own companies call them F2P and mention “moving from sub based model to F2P model”
And i must correct myself, L1 is F2P with optional sub too.
So 2/10.
But yeah, their numbers are as sloppy as their reporting.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
This feels like a bit of a misnomer. I don’t think you paid Anet to produce specific content and if you did, I’m not quite sure what to tell you.
I give money to companies that are doing stuff I like to support those companies, but I have zero control over what they actually do. I’m not sure what gave anyone the idea that Anet would make more and more challenging content over any other type of content.
Indeed, you have no control, but you EXPECT certain things from certain companies. You expect from a MMO company that they will use SOME of your money to produce more content. That’s the same that I expect from my bank, who charges me a bit of money every 3 months for having a bank account, that SOME of that money will go to improving security for things like online banking.
But they did add it. As much as its warranted. And they will add more. As much as its warranted.
Theres very low demand for it. You will have to accept it, the sooner the better.
Same as hardcores will have to accept that they dont really matter in the grand scheme of things.
I already accepted it by not playing this game anymore. But my passion for this game keeps me returning to this forum to DISCUSS this type of things. If I would accept everything that isn’t to my liking, well, thats not how life works. If you deem something worth fighting and discussing for, you do it.
Most of the players who share(a portion) of my opinion, already left the game. But it’s their passion that they still want to improve this game in the way they think is better.
No problem, fight for the cause
But its the state of things (not just in GW2). AAA MMOs really aint place for challenges/hardcores and i really dont know why people demand it in AAA MMOs. Its just not financially feasisble (just look at “WoW was dumbed down” claims everywhere, duh, of course it was)
Really? AAA MMO’s aint a place for challenges and hardcores?
Let me sum up some AAA MMO’s and see if they ARE the place for challenges/hardcores.
WoW(easy example, I admit:( – check
FF14 – check
Rift – check
Lotro – check
TeSO – check
Challenging/hardcore things maybe aren’t always the CORE in those games, but at least it’s there.
And? Where is all that “hardcore” content in those games?
WoW – well few instances at endgame can be considered “challenging”
FFXIV – 1 instance at endgame
RIFT – 1 instance at endgame
LOTRO doesnt have hardcore content any more (they even drop the raids and you might want to check why he he) but when it did have it it was 1 instance a endgme
TESO – hardcore content? where exactly lol
Now that you mentioned it, GW2 has more challenging/hardore content than those games combined be thankful
Instances arent the only challenging/hardcore content a mmo can deliver.
True,but that doesnt really help your point
It actually does. But if you think it’s not, thats fine though. But according to you, what challenging content in it’s widest sense does gw2 offer you?
Really? Please elaborate where is oh so challenging content outside the latest instance in those games.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
This feels like a bit of a misnomer. I don’t think you paid Anet to produce specific content and if you did, I’m not quite sure what to tell you.
I give money to companies that are doing stuff I like to support those companies, but I have zero control over what they actually do. I’m not sure what gave anyone the idea that Anet would make more and more challenging content over any other type of content.
Indeed, you have no control, but you EXPECT certain things from certain companies. You expect from a MMO company that they will use SOME of your money to produce more content. That’s the same that I expect from my bank, who charges me a bit of money every 3 months for having a bank account, that SOME of that money will go to improving security for things like online banking.
But they did add it. As much as its warranted. And they will add more. As much as its warranted.
Theres very low demand for it. You will have to accept it, the sooner the better.
Same as hardcores will have to accept that they dont really matter in the grand scheme of things.
I already accepted it by not playing this game anymore. But my passion for this game keeps me returning to this forum to DISCUSS this type of things. If I would accept everything that isn’t to my liking, well, thats not how life works. If you deem something worth fighting and discussing for, you do it.
Most of the players who share(a portion) of my opinion, already left the game. But it’s their passion that they still want to improve this game in the way they think is better.
No problem, fight for the cause
But its the state of things (not just in GW2). AAA MMOs really aint place for challenges/hardcores and i really dont know why people demand it in AAA MMOs. Its just not financially feasisble (just look at “WoW was dumbed down” claims everywhere, duh, of course it was)
Really? AAA MMO’s aint a place for challenges and hardcores?
Let me sum up some AAA MMO’s and see if they ARE the place for challenges/hardcores.
WoW(easy example, I admit:( – check
FF14 – check
Rift – check
Lotro – check
TeSO – check
Challenging/hardcore things maybe aren’t always the CORE in those games, but at least it’s there.
And? Where is all that “hardcore” content in those games?
WoW – well few instances at endgame can be considered “challenging”
FFXIV – 1 instance at endgame
RIFT – 1 instance at endgame
LOTRO doesnt have hardcore content any more (they even drop the raids and you might want to check why he he) but when it did have it it was 1 instance a endgme
TESO – hardcore content? where exactly lol
Now that you mentioned it, GW2 has more challenging/hardore content than those games combined be thankful
Instances arent the only challenging/hardcore content a mmo can deliver.
True,but that doesnt really help your point
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
This feels like a bit of a misnomer. I don’t think you paid Anet to produce specific content and if you did, I’m not quite sure what to tell you.
I give money to companies that are doing stuff I like to support those companies, but I have zero control over what they actually do. I’m not sure what gave anyone the idea that Anet would make more and more challenging content over any other type of content.
Indeed, you have no control, but you EXPECT certain things from certain companies. You expect from a MMO company that they will use SOME of your money to produce more content. That’s the same that I expect from my bank, who charges me a bit of money every 3 months for having a bank account, that SOME of that money will go to improving security for things like online banking.
But they did add it. As much as its warranted. And they will add more. As much as its warranted.
Theres very low demand for it. You will have to accept it, the sooner the better.
Same as hardcores will have to accept that they dont really matter in the grand scheme of things.
I already accepted it by not playing this game anymore. But my passion for this game keeps me returning to this forum to DISCUSS this type of things. If I would accept everything that isn’t to my liking, well, thats not how life works. If you deem something worth fighting and discussing for, you do it.
Most of the players who share(a portion) of my opinion, already left the game. But it’s their passion that they still want to improve this game in the way they think is better.
No problem, fight for the cause
But its the state of things (not just in GW2). AAA MMOs really aint place for challenges/hardcores and i really dont know why people demand it in AAA MMOs. Its just not financially feasisble (just look at “WoW was dumbed down” claims everywhere, duh, of course it was)
Really? AAA MMO’s aint a place for challenges and hardcores?
Let me sum up some AAA MMO’s and see if they ARE the place for challenges/hardcores.
WoW(easy example, I admit:( – check
FF14 – check
Rift – check
Lotro – check
TeSO – check
Challenging/hardcore things maybe aren’t always the CORE in those games, but at least it’s there.
And? Where is all that “hardcore” content in those games?
WoW – well few instances at endgame can be considered “challenging”
FFXIV – 1 instance at endgame
RIFT – 1 instance at endgame
LOTRO doesnt have hardcore content any more (they even drop the raids and you might want to check why he he) but when it did have it it was 1 instance a endgme
TESO – hardcore content? where exactly lol
Now that you mentioned it, GW2 has more challenging/hardore content than those games combined be thankful
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Note that “experts” didnt even notice half of those games arent even sub based. Thats ought to tell you their “expertise”
And no, youre wrong, Wildstar had preorders and reelase in 1 quarter, so if you add 45+119 and the deduce like 40ish for 1 extra month you end up with 119-ish for GW2 (preorders+release month). Anyway, WS is not even in ballpark to GW2. It actually has to survive to 2 years mark yet
Apples to apples please.
I don’t know how you get more Apples to Apples than the quarterly statements. GW2 went live Aug 28th, 2012 so 34 days for 3rd quarter sales ending Sept 30th. WildStar went live June 3rd, 2014 so 28 days for 2nd quarter sales ending June 30th. Both had just as much time for preorders.
As for some of those games aren’t sub-based. They are all, just not everywhere and they include games with a Hybrid business model (ie optional subscription).
Actual sales werent reported until next quarter and 45m is just for preorders.
SWTOR is F2P
LOTRO is F2P
RIFT is F2P
TERA is F2P
Aion is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
L2 is F2P in the west and P2P in the east
B&S is F2P or B2P in china afaik
Even WoW is not sub based in China heh, but thats another story alltogether (and why they are allowed to lump it with total subs)
game having some sort of alternate (optional) “subscription plan” doesnt make it sub based. What, now GW2 is sub based because it has “vip” option in China?
The only sub based games on that list are WoW, L1 and EvE. 3/10 for a “list of sub based games” lol
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
How long did it take the OP to reach 80? If it was less than a month or 2, I see the problem as following advice in a rush to reach 80. If I used suggestions to Zerg and level quickly for my first (or even 2nd or 3rd) characters, I would be disappointed too….
You can’t expect an “experience” if you bypassed the entire game to reach 80 quickly.
I did attempt mapo grind and heart completion to level at first, but it was slow at repetitive. wvw follow the leader is fast and repetitive
Why grind map? Explore map, do events/hearts as they come by and ultimately thers 5 starting zones and multiple leveling zones for each bracket.
Now youre 80. What exactly you gonna do now? More EOTM? Because it is fastest way to karma/badges (gear) etc
In truth, you basically skipped whole game ;P
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
My advice to new players is to avoid EOTM. It might be tempting, but ultimately if youre not on your xth character (x>3) theres whole world out there to explore.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
This feels like a bit of a misnomer. I don’t think you paid Anet to produce specific content and if you did, I’m not quite sure what to tell you.
I give money to companies that are doing stuff I like to support those companies, but I have zero control over what they actually do. I’m not sure what gave anyone the idea that Anet would make more and more challenging content over any other type of content.
Indeed, you have no control, but you EXPECT certain things from certain companies. You expect from a MMO company that they will use SOME of your money to produce more content. That’s the same that I expect from my bank, who charges me a bit of money every 3 months for having a bank account, that SOME of that money will go to improving security for things like online banking.
But they did add it. As much as its warranted. And they will add more. As much as its warranted.
Theres very low demand for it. You will have to accept it, the sooner the better.
Same as hardcores will have to accept that they dont really matter in the grand scheme of things.
I already accepted it by not playing this game anymore. But my passion for this game keeps me returning to this forum to DISCUSS this type of things. If I would accept everything that isn’t to my liking, well, thats not how life works. If you deem something worth fighting and discussing for, you do it.
Most of the players who share(a portion) of my opinion, already left the game. But it’s their passion that they still want to improve this game in the way they think is better.
No problem, fight for the cause
But its the state of things (not just in GW2). AAA MMOs really aint place for challenges/hardcores and i really dont know why people demand it in AAA MMOs. Its just not financially feasisble (just look at “WoW was dumbed down” claims everywhere, duh, of course it was)
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
This feels like a bit of a misnomer. I don’t think you paid Anet to produce specific content and if you did, I’m not quite sure what to tell you.
I give money to companies that are doing stuff I like to support those companies, but I have zero control over what they actually do. I’m not sure what gave anyone the idea that Anet would make more and more challenging content over any other type of content.
Indeed, you have no control, but you EXPECT certain things from certain companies. You expect from a MMO company that they will use SOME of your money to produce more content. That’s the same that I expect from my bank, who charges me a bit of money every 3 months for having a bank account, that SOME of that money will go to improving security for things like online banking.
But they did add it. As much as its warranted. And they will add more. As much as its warranted.
Theres very low demand for it. You will have to accept it, the sooner the better.
Same as hardcores will have to accept that they dont really matter in the grand scheme of things.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
No, but you are talking about Anet monitoring numbers, and according to you, the numbers for ‘hard’ content like Aetherblade path are to low for Anet to make any new content like this.
All I’m saying, is that your way of logic: Anet’s numbers say not enough % of the playerbase plays this type of content, so why make more?, is wrong. Like I said, the numbers are totally not representable to the type of content, but they represent that if you make hard content that gives crap rewards, no one will play it.
Do you even read what I say before you rant on again and again? I never said that you said anything about Aetherblade path not being played. What I said was that when you used the Aetherblade path in your “Anet monitoring bullkitten” story, it is totally not representable.
But it is very representable.
It means you will do any crap if it has better rewards.
You are now saying it yourself:) It’s representable, yes, but for a whole different aspect for the game. It’s representable that a lot of players choose reward efficiency over challenge. Like you said:) But some guy keeps coming up with this that it is representable for the fact that players LIKE hard content or not. And it’s not representable for that.
The fact that’s it may or may not be played doesn’t mean we don’t want it. I think that from the whole discussion topic we can come to a conclusion that maybe the bigger problem lies in the reward structure.
Reward structure is fine.
If you want challenging content you have it. You dont want to do it. It IS representative.The end.
And of course they will focus what 99% wants and not what 1% wants. Man hours are very finite resource.
Yeah, ofcourse. I spent 2-3 hours on a way harder dungeon than regular dungeons, and I get the same or sometimes even worse loot than I would have gotten in regular dungeons. Yeah, that reward structure is fine.
If you enjoy challenge it is.
If its not about challenge it isnt.
Case closed.
I suppose you’d prefer content to have no reward tied to it?
Just a “Difficult for difficulty’s sake”
Nope, it shoud be exactly how it is, same rewards and you do what you enjoy.
If for nothing else, for the sake of constant proving people like in this thread wrong in claiming thers some huge demand when it isnt (there are still people in hard denial out there) and not skewed by bribing players with better rewards.
Its objective mesure, its like people measure 1 meter and you still argue its not and some your random measure is 1 meter and blaming 1 meter for being 1 meter. It may be cute in the start but it gets hilarious afterwards.
sry but games where everyone has everything are just boring . Maybe everyone should have very style just for loging in ?
Well, pay ANet to make something unique just for you then.
Sry, but if you dont see how ridiculous your statement is, well….
A lot of us paid ANet to make this type of content. Not with just paying for the game, but also paying for stuff in the gem store. We did this with the thought to help ANet deliver more content, to help the game. Now, after 2 years, a lot of players feel like their money hasn’t been put to good use, thus resulting in a lot of threads like this one.
Really, when did ANet say they will make unique rewards just for you because you bought the game.
rofl
You have that kind of content AND you dont want to play it.
lol, its getting old fast. YOU and people like YOU proved ANet that that kind of content isnt worth making. YOU proved you want something else by refusing to run content YOU wanted. So….yeah.
Even in this thread you proclaim (and testify for others) you DONT WANT to run the content.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
No, but you are talking about Anet monitoring numbers, and according to you, the numbers for ‘hard’ content like Aetherblade path are to low for Anet to make any new content like this.
All I’m saying, is that your way of logic: Anet’s numbers say not enough % of the playerbase plays this type of content, so why make more?, is wrong. Like I said, the numbers are totally not representable to the type of content, but they represent that if you make hard content that gives crap rewards, no one will play it.
Do you even read what I say before you rant on again and again? I never said that you said anything about Aetherblade path not being played. What I said was that when you used the Aetherblade path in your “Anet monitoring bullkitten” story, it is totally not representable.
But it is very representable.
It means you will do any crap if it has better rewards.
You are now saying it yourself:) It’s representable, yes, but for a whole different aspect for the game. It’s representable that a lot of players choose reward efficiency over challenge. Like you said:) But some guy keeps coming up with this that it is representable for the fact that players LIKE hard content or not. And it’s not representable for that.
The fact that’s it may or may not be played doesn’t mean we don’t want it. I think that from the whole discussion topic we can come to a conclusion that maybe the bigger problem lies in the reward structure.
Reward structure is fine.
If you want challenging content you have it. You dont want to do it. It IS representative.The end.
And of course they will focus what 99% wants and not what 1% wants. Man hours are very finite resource.
Yeah, ofcourse. I spent 2-3 hours on a way harder dungeon than regular dungeons, and I get the same or sometimes even worse loot than I would have gotten in regular dungeons. Yeah, that reward structure is fine.
If you enjoy challenge it is.
If its not about challenge it isnt.
Case closed.
I suppose you’d prefer content to have no reward tied to it?
Just a “Difficult for difficulty’s sake”
Nope, it shoud be exactly how it is, same rewards and you do what you enjoy.
If for nothing else, for the sake of constant proving people like in this thread wrong in claiming thers some huge demand when it isnt (there are still people in hard denial out there) and not skewed by bribing players with better rewards.
Its objective mesure, its like people measure 1 meter and you still argue its not and some your random measure is 1 meter and blaming 1 meter for being 1 meter. It may be cute in the start but it gets hilarious afterwards.
sry but games where everyone has everything are just boring . Maybe everyone should have very style just for loging in ?
Well, pay ANet to make something unique just for you then.
Sry, but if you dont see how ridiculous your statement is, well….
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
No, but you are talking about Anet monitoring numbers, and according to you, the numbers for ‘hard’ content like Aetherblade path are to low for Anet to make any new content like this.
All I’m saying, is that your way of logic: Anet’s numbers say not enough % of the playerbase plays this type of content, so why make more?, is wrong. Like I said, the numbers are totally not representable to the type of content, but they represent that if you make hard content that gives crap rewards, no one will play it.
Do you even read what I say before you rant on again and again? I never said that you said anything about Aetherblade path not being played. What I said was that when you used the Aetherblade path in your “Anet monitoring bullkitten” story, it is totally not representable.
But it is very representable.
It means you will do any crap if it has better rewards.
You are now saying it yourself:) It’s representable, yes, but for a whole different aspect for the game. It’s representable that a lot of players choose reward efficiency over challenge. Like you said:) But some guy keeps coming up with this that it is representable for the fact that players LIKE hard content or not. And it’s not representable for that.
The fact that’s it may or may not be played doesn’t mean we don’t want it. I think that from the whole discussion topic we can come to a conclusion that maybe the bigger problem lies in the reward structure.
Reward structure is fine.
If you want challenging content you have it. You dont want to do it. It IS representative.The end.
And of course they will focus what 99% wants and not what 1% wants. Man hours are very finite resource.
Yeah, ofcourse. I spent 2-3 hours on a way harder dungeon than regular dungeons, and I get the same or sometimes even worse loot than I would have gotten in regular dungeons. Yeah, that reward structure is fine.
If you enjoy challenge it is.
If its not about challenge it isnt.
Case closed.
I suppose you’d prefer content to have no reward tied to it?
Just a “Difficult for difficulty’s sake”
Nope, it shoud be exactly how it is, same rewards and you do what you enjoy.
If for nothing else, for the sake of constant proving people like in this thread wrong in claiming thers some huge demand when it isnt (there are still people in hard denial out there) and not skewed by bribing players with better rewards.
Its objective mesure, its like people measure 1 meter and you still argue its not and some (yours) random lenght is 1 meter and blaming 1 meter for being 1 meter and trying hard to stretch/shrink measuring tool to fit. It may be cute in the start but it gets hilarious afterwards.
Wildstar tried it your way. Well, results speak for themselves (just as in GW2)
So yeah, case is pretty much closed (been closed for few years now as far as MMOs go)
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Well WoW numbers can be guessed at since Act-Bliz does publish income from PC subscription income in their quarterly and annual reports.
And no. GW2 had one month in 3Q12 and Wildstar had one month 2Q14. So you compare our 45,841 to their 28,048 (in million KrW).
Yeah, WoW, NCSoft games and EvE, rest is guesstimate as good as anyones on teh old ’net. And not even a good ones.
Note that “experts” didnt even notice half of those games arent even sub based. Thats ought to tell you their “expertise”
And no, youre wrong, Wildstar had preorders and reelase in 1 quarter, so if you add 45+119 and the deduce like 40ish for 1 extra month you end up with 119-ish for GW2 (preorders+release month). Anyway, WS is not even in ballpark to GW2. It actually has to survive to 2 years mark yet
Apples to apples please.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
So far we don’t have too much in the way of evidence (beyond the anecdotal) for this. I guess based on the opinions voiced on the forums, personally not sure how reliable it is (although this discussion has been had more than once).
Secondly, while pve is getting a story, the rest of the game is practically still where it was two years ago. The dungeon system needs updating (too many currencies, not very rewarding), karma needs a new purpose, and spvp needs a new mode.
WvW has at least gotten some map updates, orb mechanic brought back in a new way, seasons, updated achieves and rewards, a new (though fail) map, but the core issue of points and organizing (albeit getting COLORS now, but no improved functionality) still remains.
Well I will agree that some parts of the game have been somewhat neglected. Although in the case of WvW the solution is a bit more tricky, adding more maps would only disadvantage smaller servers who barely have the player base to fight WvW on four fronts. Adding more things to capture to present maps provides the same issue of disadvantaging smaller servers.
The fix some of the issues with WvW isn’t as simply has adding a new map or tweaking a few things here and there.
Dungeons however could do with a few more tweaks (no more stacking! no more stacking!).
We have evidence, you just fail to acknowledge it.
Just google financial reports for NCSoft company for 2013 and 2014. You will see that the revenue of GW2 in the West ( EU + NA ) is steadily declining. There was even a period when the revenue for EU fell for over 40%.
Stop denying the fact, people, that GW2 indeed has got some major trouble in the EU and NA.
China is a separate thing.
Write here revenues of all quarters since GW2 released and THEN you might have the case, or not.
China is completely separate thing. But what it DOES is ADDING unknown amount of money to reported revenues.
The burden of proof rests on the disproving party, i.e. you.
I won’t be digging it up for people who willingly deny something that has been posted on these forums on numerous occasions, which is the very reason why the majority writes what the person above stated, i.e. that the game has troubles.
Of course you wont, now that numbers are posted you dont have a point any more so you can stop the charade.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Note that changes in income may not be as bad if converted to USD. The exchange rate to KrW has fluctuated 15.9% during that time.
Are the earnings going down? Yes.
Is it at a point that they are terrible? No. Still #3 at NCSOFT after Lineage and WildStar.
Do we have any idea how much income ANet is getting from China for GW2? No.
Am I surprised this is hitting the fan 3+ weeks since those numbers came out and first talked about here? Yep.
If this game was a subscription based game then the $20.96 – $22.21 million USD for 2Q14 would be equivalent to 465,000 to 493,000 monthly subscribers at $15 a month which is not shabby with the exception of comparing it to WoW. And it won’t have the numbers of a true F2P because of the up front cost, even in China where B2P was unheard of until GW2.
In 2013 the game earned roughly $113 million USD. If it was a subscription based game that would put us at #5 between SWTOR and LOTRO. That’s not shabby at all.
Yah, im still looking for that “40%” drop lol.
And finally everyone can see revenue is pretty stable.
The table you linked is estimates (except for NCSoft which publishes actal numbers) and most of those have no base in any actual data (lot of stuff from that site has been proven severly off the mark) and are pretty much another set of random interent numbers.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
1) Do you even KNOW the ENORMOUS difference between crafting a Legendary versus crafting an Ascended?!
2) You are incorrect later in the thread he exposes his true motives… he feels he should be able to switch the stats around so he can swap the weapons from toon to toon… Which is exactly that… a feeling of self entitlement.
3) Here’s an idea… rather than try and debate semantics, why don’t you try and discuss the actual points with counterpoints? Or, are you bad at debating those as well and that is why you are avoiding them?
What “actual points” are there to counter? I’ve been countering what I see. It’s not my fault you’re not exactly putting out elaborate debating points.
Do you understand the fact that you can already craft multiple ascended items and keep them on hand, effectively using them the same way you would with stat swapping?
And oh no, big deal, he exposed his “true motives” that his main concern is dealing with alts… which still comes back to him asking for one simple thing that doesn’t indicate entitlement at all: An option to unlock a set of stats for swapping that takes somewhat less effort per-desired-stat than crafting an obscene amount of ascended items (and in fact, still takes a significant amount of effort from the way he is proposing it).
There is no war to fight here. You’re hacking away at shadows.
Buuuuuuuuuuuut….. he doesn’t want to spend the gold to craft additional Ascended… he wants his to have the same capabilities as a legendary for SIGNIFICANTLY less effort and he wants them because he FEELS (this is where the sense of self entitlement comes in) that he should have the ability to move them to his alts and swap the stats around… and ability that is EXCLUSIVE to Legendaries for a reason…
And who are you exactly to go around telling others what they are entitled to or not?
In fact you should citicise your own entitlement for a change.
You feeling entitled much? Because all your posts are bad case of missguided entitlement.
Can you tell us all when this sense of missguided entitlement first appeared?
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
No, but you are talking about Anet monitoring numbers, and according to you, the numbers for ‘hard’ content like Aetherblade path are to low for Anet to make any new content like this.
All I’m saying, is that your way of logic: Anet’s numbers say not enough % of the playerbase plays this type of content, so why make more?, is wrong. Like I said, the numbers are totally not representable to the type of content, but they represent that if you make hard content that gives crap rewards, no one will play it.
Do you even read what I say before you rant on again and again? I never said that you said anything about Aetherblade path not being played. What I said was that when you used the Aetherblade path in your “Anet monitoring bullkitten” story, it is totally not representable.
But it is very representable.
It means you will do any crap if it has better rewards.
You are now saying it yourself:) It’s representable, yes, but for a whole different aspect for the game. It’s representable that a lot of players choose reward efficiency over challenge. Like you said:) But some guy keeps coming up with this that it is representable for the fact that players LIKE hard content or not. And it’s not representable for that.
The fact that’s it may or may not be played doesn’t mean we don’t want it. I think that from the whole discussion topic we can come to a conclusion that maybe the bigger problem lies in the reward structure.
Reward structure is fine.
If you want challenging content you have it. You dont want to do it. It IS representative.The end.
And of course they will focus what 99% wants and not what 1% wants. Man hours are very finite resource.
Yeah, ofcourse. I spent 2-3 hours on a way harder dungeon than regular dungeons, and I get the same or sometimes even worse loot than I would have gotten in regular dungeons. Yeah, that reward structure is fine.
If you enjoy challenge it is.
If its not about challenge it isnt.
Case closed.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
So far we don’t have too much in the way of evidence (beyond the anecdotal) for this. I guess based on the opinions voiced on the forums, personally not sure how reliable it is (although this discussion has been had more than once).
Secondly, while pve is getting a story, the rest of the game is practically still where it was two years ago. The dungeon system needs updating (too many currencies, not very rewarding), karma needs a new purpose, and spvp needs a new mode.
WvW has at least gotten some map updates, orb mechanic brought back in a new way, seasons, updated achieves and rewards, a new (though fail) map, but the core issue of points and organizing (albeit getting COLORS now, but no improved functionality) still remains.
Well I will agree that some parts of the game have been somewhat neglected. Although in the case of WvW the solution is a bit more tricky, adding more maps would only disadvantage smaller servers who barely have the player base to fight WvW on four fronts. Adding more things to capture to present maps provides the same issue of disadvantaging smaller servers.
The fix some of the issues with WvW isn’t as simply has adding a new map or tweaking a few things here and there.
Dungeons however could do with a few more tweaks (no more stacking! no more stacking!).
We have evidence, you just fail to acknowledge it.
Just google financial reports for NCSoft company for 2013 and 2014. You will see that the revenue of GW2 in the West ( EU + NA ) is steadily declining. There was even a period when the revenue for EU fell for over 40%.
Stop denying the fact, people, that GW2 indeed has got some major trouble in the EU and NA.
China is a separate thing.
Write here revenues of all quarters since GW2 released and THEN you might have the case, or not.
China is completely separate thing. But what it DOES is ADDING unknown amount of money to reported revenues.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
No, but you are talking about Anet monitoring numbers, and according to you, the numbers for ‘hard’ content like Aetherblade path are to low for Anet to make any new content like this.
All I’m saying, is that your way of logic: Anet’s numbers say not enough % of the playerbase plays this type of content, so why make more?, is wrong. Like I said, the numbers are totally not representable to the type of content, but they represent that if you make hard content that gives crap rewards, no one will play it.
Do you even read what I say before you rant on again and again? I never said that you said anything about Aetherblade path not being played. What I said was that when you used the Aetherblade path in your “Anet monitoring bullkitten” story, it is totally not representable.
But it is very representable.
It means you will do any crap if it has better rewards.
You are now saying it yourself:) It’s representable, yes, but for a whole different aspect for the game. It’s representable that a lot of players choose reward efficiency over challenge. Like you said:) But some guy keeps coming up with this that it is representable for the fact that players LIKE hard content or not. And it’s not representable for that.
The fact that’s it may or may not be played doesn’t mean we don’t want it. I think that from the whole discussion topic we can come to a conclusion that maybe the bigger problem lies in the reward structure.
Reward structure is fine.
If you want challenging content you have it. You dont want to do it. It IS representative.The end.
And of course they will focus what 99% wants and not what 1% wants. Man hours are very finite resource.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
No, but you are talking about Anet monitoring numbers, and according to you, the numbers for ‘hard’ content like Aetherblade path are to low for Anet to make any new content like this.
All I’m saying, is that your way of logic: Anet’s numbers say not enough % of the playerbase plays this type of content, so why make more?, is wrong. Like I said, the numbers are totally not representable to the type of content, but they represent that if you make hard content that gives crap rewards, no one will play it.
Do you even read what I say before you rant on again and again? I never said that you said anything about Aetherblade path not being played. What I said was that when you used the Aetherblade path in your “Anet monitoring bullkitten” story, it is totally not representable.
But it is very representable.
It means you will do any crap if it has better rewards.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
hardcore gw2 game-play means u can chat now on megaserver for like 9h, thats pretty hardcore as any gw2 player can be.
This is a game for players that are bad at mmo’s mostly or never played mmo’s before.
Yeah, do you know what hardcores do 16h/day?
Wilstar is “hardcore”. Its servers getting merged to 2/region (2 months out)
“Hardcores” are negligible group and they get exactly the amount of attention as they should -> none-very little.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
I call BS. You are couching this behind “I only want challenging content” when what you really want is challenging content that also provides the best rewards in the game.
Aetherpath is exactly the GW1 model. It is a challenging dungeon with rare location-specific rewards that are locked behind RNG. It is also a ghost town. “I get more loot farming somewhere else.”
You don’t want challenging content. You want challenging content with benefits.
Yup, crux of the point, there really isnt a demand for “challenging” content.
OTOH some people just want entitelment to “better rewards”.
I say…let those few people finally leave (it certainly seems they are leaving for 2 years now, and it aint happening lol)
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
SWTOR made nowhere near 150m$, It made 5$. You see how easy it is to throw random numbers around.
Basing other games revenues on random internet numbers…well…yeah. EA hides SWTOR numbers (lumps it with games like FIFA franchise for revenue rofl), and, if you actually READ EAs FINACIAL REPORT youll find they indicated SWTOR as one of the games thats HOLDING BACK their microtransantions AND subscription revenue (mentioned specifically in bots sections)
So yeah….random internet numbers=bad.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
At least it has options. You CAN farm most efficient thing or you CAN farm less efficient thing thats fun. AND you can get a jackpot by doing either.
Alternative is to farm same exact content ad nasueum whether you like it or not.
Alternative is the fun activity should be the most rewarding and efficient and the “farm gold and buy in TP” should be the less efficient thing.
Greetings.
You really dont make any sense, sorry.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
The big difference between those games and GW2 in terms of gear (other than the obvious treadmill that comes with a subscription game) is that in those games you need to grind Activity A over and over and hope for Item A to drop whereas in GW2 you can grind Activity A-Z and use the gold generated to buy Item A-Z.
Some people feel like grinding one activity for each item is better (heaven knows why). Other people realize that GW2 gives you MORE options for getting your gear and appreciate that they can do the stuff they like doing to get the stuff they like having.
The obvious treadmill comes with every MMO. Otherwise players would be “done” really fast and leave the game.
The overall idea of GW2 to have multiple ways to get stuff is a good one and I like it very much.
But in reality it turns out that it is often much easier to get stuff not as a direct drop or achievment but indirect by buying it in the TP with gold. And the most efficient way to farm gold is not (always) the way with the most fun. Because of this GW2 has some really “grindy taste”, sometimes even more than other games with less choice.
Greetings.
At least it has options. You CAN farm most efficient thing or you CAN farm less efficient thing thats fun. AND you can get a jackpot by doing either.
Alternative is to farm same exact content ad nasueum whether you like it or not.
And yeah, that alternative sucks to no end.
So please explain how doing pretty much whatever you like feels grindy, when you propose grinding 1 particular thing to no end without ANY other options.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
It’s the inevitable conclusion to all that is good. People will find ways to exploit and use minimum effort to get what they want.
AFKers and uplevel leechers are two of the most prevalent groups that will usually make any Gold Medal map implode into obscurity. I just had it happen today with what was initially a TTS map.
There really isn’t any solution for this aside from making these events a large group instance, which I don’t see this ever happen considering pretty much nothing in this game is like that (I guess you can say WvW and EotM is kind of like that, but still you can’t really control your guild members getting in at all).
Uplevel leechers? Really?
Then you are entitled leecher. Much worse from any angle.
Another note for the developers.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Welcome to MMOs, obviously you’ve never played one before. Long term goals are set up by the devs to give players a reason to keep logging in. Otherwise, you log in, pay $250 and stand around in your Armor of Awesomeness and chat about how great you are.
Yeah, I remember farming gold to buy my awesomeness in EverQuest as well as World of Warcraft.
Oh wait that never happened. I actually had to go out and do all this hard content to earn my prestige. If only I had been able to flip my way to success…
Yeah, people didnt sell raid spots/gear, at best for gold, but RMT wasnt far away. Never happend….the truth.
Your reliable way….farm/buy gold and buy of TP.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Frankly, I don’t see GW2’s model as being much worse in terms of difficulty or obnoxiousness for acquiring legendaries. It’s just a more naked, overt grind with gold involved rather than a social media grind of getting in good with the right people on your server to be allowed to join the right raids when you needed them.
tl;dr – MMOs are not where you should look for your legendary story quests. They are almost universally bad at delivering that experience.
Well that is just part of the problem. GW2 tried to sell itself as being different. It was supposed to be “better” not “not much worse”.
Not much worse=better. Its kinda definition of the word.
It is much better than pretty much any MMO out there.
What, now people will go play something actually worse to prove some kind of point (Wildstar was mentioned – lol)
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Actually i think those are more worth than lvl 80 ones ;P
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Agreed, everyone should get the weapon (skin), and placement should only affect what additional goodies you can get.
Also agree that it should be ASCENDED weapon with stats of your choice.
But its www so inferior rewards are understood by now i guess.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
