24 silver each? No thanks!
The 4th bonus of the rune of the pack is 10 sec or 5 sec as wiki says?
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I would recommend full zerker with traveler runes. As weapons GS+S/F or Hammer.
The problem is that the Guardian is always getting useless things and not being corrected which is useless (utility, traits, etc.). I’m not asking for buffs, but for things that have utility. The Guardian is the class that has more useless stuff and are getting more and more useless things…
I don’t think that this trait will be viable. This trait is useless with AoE blocks, like active VoC and “Retreat!”, will be only good if you focus on self blocks.
The real problem of Guardian is not viability or balance, but variety. The problem is that almost 1/2 of our utilities and a lot of the traits are useless, maybe be the class that have most useless things, allowing very low flexibility and possibility. And yes, there is a lot of things that need to be changed in the class and the Guardian is the class that received the lowest attention.
Again, the problem is not the viability, but the lack of attention and changes.
The class is stagnant.
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I like the “on passive virtue” effects idea. Now the virtues passives are very underwhelming. But the 15% is really weak.
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Correct, just Protection and a projectile absorb/heal skill. If you want straight up blocks, you have to use Shelter.
Or play as warrior…
You should not use anyting than full berserker status on PvE.
But you’ll need about 1500 of healing power to double the effects of most guardian heals, the exceptions are regeneration, and the awful scaling like detonate (#5 shield), altruistic healing, monk focus, Sanctuary Merciful Intervention. Some skills that does not scale at all, like bow of truth and a few others I think.
The heling scale is really awful on the most skills.
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Your weapon will have to fear my mighty sword that is so incredible that has no name.
I think that It really depends on your theme and color composition of your set. I also have both, 2 genesis on my guard and one entropy on my war. All sets of my guard have a gold color theme, so it really combines with him. I use khrysaor as my GS.
On your guardians (this is a question to everyone else as well), do you have Genesis equipped with the base stats or you transmuted the stats into something else (if so what?).
Hi! I transmute both – no reason to have 2 weapons with the same status =P. One I transmuted to Berserker and the other to Zealot (a specific build to WvW that I tried and liked). I’m not a big fan of Cavalier status =P
I think that It really depends on your theme and color composition of your set. I also have both, 2 genesis on my guard and one entropy on my war. All sets of my guard have a gold color theme, so it really combines with him. I use khrysaor as my GS.
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The only bad thing was the Empowering Might and maybe (I said maybe) the torch change. The EM obviously would be OP and the torch would only need a few cooldown increase (maybe +10 sec, to 25 sec total). And Retaliatory Subconscious would be junk as ever.
It is a shame that not even a single significative change was tried on Guard like all other classes that get a revamp on almost 50% of the traits and skills.
Well, I’m not playing as often anyways, and I feel like I’m glad they won’t implement, so I’ll may leave this game faster. Not complaining this game to be bad, but boring. There are changes that need to be made and they not even move a finger to try.
your build is for wvw? imo 2,5k armor combined with “only” ~15k health is not enough for wvw.
and why sword/shield as your 2nd set? i find it pretty lackluster :>
This build is for small party / zerg. I don’t have survivability problems (I have 2,7k armor with strength in numbers).
The shield is good becouse the +85% boon duration for ~9 sec of protection and knock back (the bubble is almost useless). The sword is for keep up the fight (leap) and for dps (mace is in theory good for my setup, with heavy focus on symbols and healing power, but it is too slow).
This build is focused in support and DPS (in the way I like =P).
Wow, they finally added this set on editor?
I’m not a big fan of AH anymore (I used a lot), but its very good to tank in team fights. Your stats are very good, better than mine – full exotic =( – but my build is more supportive =P
I use this build and I like a lot – for now, with the leaked patch notes, I may try a lot of new things =)
I like this build becouse its fits in my style and Boon duration is a must for my set (shield and Inner fire). I change my hammer a lot for staff when running (I keep the inventory open). I will wait to see if they will buff celetial stats for a better thing before removing them. I also wanna to chage/do a build for heavy shout, but shield and Inner fire are useless without boon duration =(
Someone posted this ~5 hours ago and got deleted.
Then its truth. When this patch will go up?
WOW.
Finally? The spirit weapons will be buffed and Zeal line useful? I can’t wait to try the new Zeal XII and the new improved spirit weapons (seems better than the last try).
Also, TORCH. Its finally will be useful. I’m very happy with the Guardian changes, for the first time we’ll have something actually fixed.
But Retaliatory Subconscious is still junk =(
What is happening with the Dev team, trying to actually fix things? Any way, thank you very much for finally waking up.
Honorable Shield. As a person who uses shield and always gets cooldown reduction traits for everything, I say shield cooldowns are not a problem.
Regeneration for #4 is probably too much, considering #4 is the only weapon skill in the game that gives on-demand Protection. Might won’t be too bad, but I think if a condition such as torment added to it, it’d be better. A quick daze would also be nice.
I’m not sure 8 seconds for #5 would be useful at all honestly.
PLEASE READ
You are silly. The devs don’t read the Guardian forums. Sadly.
Also if (I said if) they play Guardian on WvW/PvP, they only use GS/Sword/Staff builds. None of them use mace, shield or torch.
I use Mace & Shield as my secondary set along with GS as primary. I dropped Staff (as a healing weapon) for them, and it was one of the best decision I’ve made in my build. I did not even hesitate to make ascended Mace & Shield shortly after giving the set a try.
I use a build that focus on support and DPS (half zealot half cleric) and the mace is just too weak. I use sword/scepter instead becouse when you finally can finish the cast of mace skills the enemy is miles away. Even on Zergs the sword is best than mace. Every time I try mace, I go back to sword or scepter.
I use shield as well on WvW and it oly works on a heavily focused boon duration build (or sort of). The real problem of the shield is the low duration of its skills combined with insane cooldowns.
And the torch not even needs to mentioned. Its lackluster. Only #4 works.
A very easy fix to both mace and shield would be to the mace, reduce the cast time from last hit of #1 and the #2 and add cripple on #3. To shield add 5 sec cripple on #4 and increase the bubble duration on #5 by 2 sec. This change wouldn’t make OP and would help support guardians to keep the fight.
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PLEASE, NO.
No more useless spirit wapons..
For WvW, I use a mix of Cleric with Zealot.
It works in the way I ever wanted (good dmg and good support, but not full tanker). I use hammer/Sword+Shield, swaping every time Staff for Hammer for travel and a few times sword for mace just for fun (becouse mace is too weak, both support and dps, even using full symbol build – its too slow and I need some type of catch up). The shield is more to kick the insane perma invis thieves from Shadow Refuge.
For traits I use 0/10/10/30/20 with full boon duration build (where is empty I use Zealot):
This build have a good DPS (1.8k power, 25% crit dmg and 30~40 crit chance) and very good support (~1.1k heaing power and 85% boon duration) and a very descent armor (~2700, but only 15k Health).
Its really depends on your play style.
Depends on the skills and traits you pick up, but generally its not going to be worth it. If you look at the coefficients for most heal skills, the additional healing from healing power is super small.
Well, yeah, but any Guardian build that would use Zealot’s would combine many sources of healing. Selfless daring, Monk’s Focus or AH, VoR (possibly traited), regeneration, possibly a mace, various other healing traits, and, of course, a slot heal.
The healing power for AH, Monk’s Focus, Detonate (from shield #5) and 3rd hit from mace AA are useless. The coeficient is insignificant and does not worth use healing power for these.
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I liked the new map (objectives), but it is a completely a mess. 50% of the time you cross doors, you have to be careful to not fall down. I got buff in the frozen land that reduce the dmg I take by 10% – all factions have it? If not it can become really imbalanced depending on what faction you get.
This is maze and I don’t know where I must go through to reach my objective. Also the Green faction seems closer to Blue’s than Red (or Blue to Red), so is most likely to fights between Blue and Green to happen.
I wanna new maps like this, with new objectives (those are really nice ones), but please, don’t do more mazes.
Ground targeting would certainly help guardian mobility. I’d love to have it as an option. Though we do lose some utility from it. (Won’t be as easy to thief stomp if they port, banish stomp will be trickier, RoW + JI won’t auto track, though for WvW it’d be excellent.) Personally I’d prefer a fix / reduction to merciful healing and make it a ground target option.
Personally, I think that a small skill-cap increase on combos with IoJ would be a small price to pay for additional mobility. I’ll get to designing the skill.
Shelter is tricky. I see why people want to change it but at the same time it’s a problem to change it. As it’s used now it’s a large scale burst mitigation, as the only other option is renewed focus. The problem is warriors have access to things like endure pain and shield block to do the same thing so I’d never opt to get rid of it as it stands.
It just makes me sad to hear Guardians openly admit to calling [Shelter] a crutch and then saying that there’s no issue with it. It really speaks volumes on the current state of GW2 PvP combat. I’m going to revert my suggested changes to the skill, for now. I’ll keep it saved, but I my hope is that we can move to something more along the lines of what I’ve suggested in the future. The best way to do that, however, is to really take a critical look at the game as a whole and target the issues that make [Shelter] into a necessary crutch and not just an overpowered healing skill (as it really is).
What could be an interesting idea is that Signet of Resolve instead of just passively removing conditions could be stored for up to 3 conditions removed in a burst. A small icon similar to how shield of wrath works, ticks up to 3. Activate the skill once to use the condition removal, twice to use the heal. Would allow for counter play, since the animation would be longer and could be interrupted. Let’s players have a more active role, which is always a plus and probably the biggest thing is allowing people to actually see the effect activate. I could count on 1 hand the times I’ve seen signet actually remove a condition.
That’s actually a really neat idea. I’ll try to craft something for that.
The problem isn’t Shelter, but other the healing skills. Warriors have tons of way to tank full damage – 1 from shield, 1 from a healing skill (that is 100x more powerful than Shelter, and under used becouse the healing signet is OP) and 1 utility skill.
The problem with the other healing skills are: Healing Breeze – It is just useless, too much CD considering its underwhelming effect and Litany of Wrath only (sort of) work if is fully traited. The Signet of Resolve problem is the CD that should be 35 sec and should have better synergy with traits (they should buff Perfect Inscriptions to 50% efficiency ) and other signets (the Signet of Mercy active is useless and the Signet of Wrath pasive is useless).
The Shelter is 100% OK. You have a 20 sec CD heal for +10 sec CD and 2 sec of block.
The Guardian should raise the arm with every tick (what the icon suggests), and raise both arms on last tick (heal). Then the animation would be really epic.
This also happened with me, but I don’t remember the circumstances.
In PvE, no question Zerk.
At WvW I did a half zealot half cleric that I liked a lot (is ow my main set for WvW). I’m not a big fan of full tanker, I like to do good DPS and good support as well and this new set fits me perfectly.
PLEASE READ
You are silly. The devs don’t read the Guardian forums. Sadly.
Also if (I said if) they play Guardian on WvW/PvP, they only use GS/Sword/Staff builds. None of them use mace, shield or torch.
It is concerning that requests for change from the player community for Eles have all been more or less aligned along the same basic axes (innate lack of defence, reliance on water/arcane, weakness of signets, glyphs, conjures, focus skills) for more than a year now but have not been addressed in any meaningful way.
They haven’t addressed anything that is worthless or very weak. I think they’ll never fix those things. I guess that almost all classes suffers from this problem.
I agree 100%. Or even fix the ridicolous perma stealth & infinite teleport thief. There was already a lot of good suggestions to fix this (without breaking the thief).
I also think that a leap/teleport should require a target (This also applies to insane mobility warriors).
From my own experiences, Sword auto 3 needs to be cleaned up. Flashing Blade should be a non-target skill and would allow teleporting in a straight line if no target is selected since a skill like rush is allowed to be a non-target skill. Zealot’s Defense should apply chilled on the first hit of the chain since it’s so obvious. That or make it 4 projectiles instead of 8 which hit more reliably. Could also give a 1/4 or 1/2 second chill/cripple to the 2nd auto attack since it’s so easily walked away from in wvw.
Hammer just needs a bit of time shaved off the symbol, make it 1sec on auto 3 rather than 1 1/4. Banish should have a slightly reduced cd as well.
Greatsword whirling wrath needs to be slightly faster movement, it’s very difficult to land right now since it’s so obvious and slow. (I fought a gs guardian just the other day and had to laugh at him sadly. It was so easy to read his ww, dodge back and using zealot’s defense. WW makes you move so slow zealot’s defense easily hits which is a shocker)
Staff is fine, though the orb of light needs to be fixed when it won’t recharge if the orb gets stuck.
Scepter needs a slightly increase smite cd and slightly decreased chains of light cd to balance it out. Auto is still kinda bad, maybe a hair more damage to comp for the poor tracking.
Shield needs to reduce the cds for both skills just a hair, it’s a solid weapon but the effects aren’t worth the long cd.
Focus is fine. Probably our best offhand.
Torch 4 needs to work with the “Gain fury when you’re on fire” trait. Torch 5 needs to either self cleanse, increase damage, apply burning or any combination of those. (Note: Currently it is not worth using Torch 5 over the swords auto attack if used as a pair. The loss of DPS isn’t worth it. Haven’t tested with other weapons)
Mace is pretty solid, it does its part well.
Overall Guardian weapons aren’t bad, but they’re very obvious. It’s a lot more work to land damage. Access to soft CC as a trait or on a weapon would help a lot. Personally think chilled on crit as a zeal 20 trait would make for some interesting play. Sacrificing 20 points into zeal which is largely considered our worst trait line and wouldn’t allow for GS dmg/heal unless you push for 30.
I agree with every thing you said, excep for Scepter and Mace.
Scepter is really bad, the only good thing is the immobilize. The AA and smite hardly will hit anything. Smite seems to have a good dps, but the anemies just walk away, hitting they only 2 times (if lucky).
And mace is too slow. They should reduce the cast from the last hit from #1 by 1/4 (to 3/4 – this skill does not cleaves and have a poor healing power scaling) and the symbol (#2) to 1 sec or even 3/4 sec. I wanna to use mace, but every time I try it, I get bored.
Shelter already has a pretty big trade off, it has less hps than wars healing signet ACTIVE. It is a good skill for mitigating damage but terrible for gaining health. The blocking makes it difficult for many to interupt , but the channel is long enough for a skilled player to fear or cc with an unblockable if equipped. It also goes on full cool down if interrupted, unlike other skills. Signet of resolve is used quite a bit, not as much as shelter but i think that has a lot to do with the fairly weak passive that spends a lot of time on cool down.
Sword teleport is the main reason why sword is so popular in melee. Along with GS it is one of the only weapons we have that we can use to actually hit an opponent. Sword is quicker than GS, but quirkier. Auto can bug and not connect, has poor cleave, can be reflected and zealots defense is often best not used unless you are taking a lot of ranged auto attacks. The weapon really leans on flashing blade to keep it useful.
I think that flashing blade is the only reason to use Sword at WvW (myself included). Considering the lack of mobility + lack of soft CC everyone can just run away from us. I use sword+hammer+hydromancy sigil only to keep up the fight. I am also begining to use Bane Signet becouse I’m sick of people just running from me.
As aways, no changes to Guardians. At least make the Mace #1 (last hit) and #2 faster. I wanna to use mace on my guardian, but every time I try, I always go back to my sword. This is too low.
Best Topic ever. every reply is funny and says the truth.
They have no weakness. The problem is – neither the Devs nor Warriors actually see or accept this and just think its a “L2P” issue. The sad thing is – it would take a few changes to make them more balanced.
1) Healing Signet: Reduce Passive by 30%, Increase the active by 50% and increase how much it heals with more Healing Power. So if they WANT insane Regen, they can have it – but it will cost a bit with needing more Healing Power
2) Mobility: Several options here. The “best” i think would be to make it like Ride The Lightening, if they hit someone the cool down is halved (20seconds) if not it is doubled (40seconds) Savage Leap needs to be a higher cool down as well.
3) Immunities: I think that Healing Signet Passive should be disabled when they use immunity skills (not blocks though) or make it so they can’t attack like the Engineer skill.
4) Hammer – The Burst needs its cool down increased having a 1-2second stun EVERY 10 seconds is simply to much Fierce Blow needs its damage reduced a bit and the weakness reduced by 50% and Hammer Shock needs the Cripple reduced by 50%
It’s ArmageddonAsh with another wave of terrible ideas.
1)HS was designed to offer good sustain to warriors WHO DON’T SPEC FOR HEALING POWER. Second of all if you NERF THE PASSIVE THAT MUCH AND BUFF THE ACTIVE IT’LL JUST BECOME ANOTHER HEALING SURGE / MENDING. Ergo useless.
2)Warriors are supposed to be mobile. Look at :
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior
First thing it says is SPEED.3)No other class works like that. What are you even saying.
4)Hammer was already severely nerfed. You want to take it out of the game completely ? at least ask for that.All in all I hope you do realize how far off you are.
Warrior’s weakness is his inability to specialize and do as well as other classes in specific roles.
(2) If you wanna to throw the wiki at us, then you should fix the Guardian wiki:
“Virtues have been said to help balance the guardian; for example, they have a lower base health than the warrior profession but compensate for this with their higher health regeneration granted by Virtue of Resolve.”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guardian
Guardian have higher regen than warrior? You are kidding me. To get the War regen I need a lot of healing power + perma regen.
LOL.
You gave a lot of suggestions on what is fine. Yes, the tomes are really weak, but the sword and staff are fine. Some things that are cleary broken or useless like spirit weapons and you did no suggestions to it at all!
What must be fixed on Guardian now (are useless or very very weak):
- Mace #1 (last hit is too slow) and #2 (too slow);
- Torch #5 (should have higher DPS or clean the guad as well);
- Shield (too much CD);
- Healing Breeze adn Litany of Wrath (which I do not think that will be fixed on the next balance patch, considering on what the dev said);
- Hallowed Ground;
- Sanctuary;
- Merciful Intervention;
- Signet of Mercy (active is junk – maybe even the passive, considering the healing power scaling);
- Signet of Wrath (the passive is useless, guard have the worse condition build – both dmg and soft CC);
- All spirit weapons;
- The Tomes;
Traits:
- Binding Jeopardy;
- Revenge of the Fallen and Strength of the Fallen (on almost all classes this is junk);
- Shattered Aegis;
- Every Spirit Weapon trait;
- Kindled Zeal;
- Healer’s Retribution;
- Shimmering Defense;
- Glacial Heart;
- Retaliatory Subconscious – WORST TRAIT EVA;
- Shielded Mind.
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The condimancer have no problems with AoE.
But Power based build has serious problems with AoE.
They really need to fix mace. It is really too slow. The last hit from #1 and the #2 must be faster this kills the mace.
Skill wise, Charr for fury access (Guardian have almost none) or Sylvari for immobilize access (binding jeopardy trait).
Appearance wise, what you like more.
Possible? Yes.
Viable? No. Not even close.
Reaper’s Protection Trait and Dark Spear from Spear does the same thing. I don’t know if this is a bug or if it is intended.
Hi guys.
I don’t play Necro too much, so I can’t tell why Well of Darkness have that insane cooldown, I think this should be lower. (in in relation to balance)
Compared to Elementalist – Glyph of Storms (have 10 sec of duration vs 5 of Well of Darkness and only 10 sec more CD) and also Thief – Smoke Screen (have 7 sec duration, blocks projectiles and have only 30 sec CD) the Necro version feels very underwhelming.
I do know that Necro have the Chilling Darkness trait, but do not think that explains why it has such high CD/low duration.
For PvE I highly recomend to use full zerker.
For WvW I did recently a Zealot/Cleric combination (I want DPS with support – I never liked to be too tanky) and I do a really good DPS, high support and average tank.
My build is (where is empty I put Zealot – the editor still don’t have this set):
In the jewels you can use zealots – you’ll get ~90 power more and keep the precision and healing power. You can also use Focus instead of Shield.
I have about 1840 power, 25% crit chance, ~1400 healing power, 2800 armor (with strength in numbers) and 15k HP.
Even not full tank or the healway build I don’t have problems with survivability.
In my opinion, if you want to get healing power, you should use some kind of support skills, if not is worthless to use healing power. Then you should use knight/soldier/zerker mix if you have any/too little support (in your case). You only have Battle Presence (which, I don’t like, but are people that like).
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I would HIGH recommend to NOT use magi equipment. It has the worse stats combination possible. You should try Knight, Cleric or even the new Zealot set (other people use Soldier and other stats, but I’m not a big fan of vitality), mixing them for what you want. Get a high amount of precision is worthless without Power to boost up, you’ll lose DPS.
Also you’ll use a meditation build (usually oriented more to DPS than support) and healing power wont do much for you (Monk Focus have – or close of – the worst healing scaling in the game), so you should use a zerker/knight (maybe soldier) mix in my opinion.
Can we get accessories for this yet?
And any possibility of this set in the future?
Healing Power (major)
Power (minor)
Precision (minor)
I was hopping that combo too, but after thinking Power as main is better, since this is a DPS with support. I compared full Cleric with full Zealot and the diference is about ~250 between primary and secondary stats if I’m not wrong, which is better to have more Power than Healing Power.
I had an idea to “aid” the condition problem that Guardian have.
Supreme Justice and Permeating Wrath have no sense to be in Virtue line – that is mainly focused on support and they can help a little bit to to do some sort of condition build. Supreme Justice should be in Adept tier on Virtue line and Permeating Wrath should be in Master tier in Zeal line (does not makes sense in Radiance line becouse its focus on activating VoJ and Permeating Wrath focus on passive effect, also if Kindled Zeal is changed to something useful, could have some synergy for condition builds, this without the mention that Zeal line is too weak).
This would’t be too powerful since you would have to trade AoE blind/vulnerability/might spamming for AoE Burning. In that way a condition build would be bad like Staff Ele , which is better than non existent.
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The Hammer #1 AA (Symbol) isn’t necessary a problem any more with the “buffed” (fixed) Writ of Persistence. The Real problem with hammer now is mainly #4 and #5 skills, that #4 is only for throw people off cliffs (this only hit ONE person!) and #5 is really bad to properly land (they should make it castable while moving – like they did with #4 hammer of warrior) – you only really can properly land with JI or “get luck”.
I hardly think that ANET will do something about the weapons problems that Guardian have. Several people (including me) already did similar suggestions, but they only moved a finger to try to fix the problems.
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Already have a full set and weapon equipped. Now the REAL problem is the lack of similar stat accessories. Basically to capitalize on healing power, you either need celestial or a combination of cleric accessories.
Combine clerics and berserker trinkets. You can get almost the exact same effective healthpool and power. I crafted My exotic just now and will take them for a spin later this evening.
There are trinkets with these stats. Just search for “Sprocket” on TP.
Um, most builds have SOME KIND of boon duration. Anywhere from 25-50%. Some even go as high as 80%. At most a 10/25/0/10/25 person is going to miss out on 3.75 out of 10 seconds of vigor. If they run boon duration runes, it comes down to 1.5 seconds. Not a big deal at all.
Not big deal at all? So in order to play Guardian, I MUST have boon duration or go further in virtues?
How nice, this provide a nice build diversity. NO. One of the biggest Guardian problems is the build diversity and they’re decreasing it. Every balance patch we are losing or keeping the same and boring builds to play, while all other classes always get something new.
Also, not everyone only plays on PvE.
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I’m worried about the boon duration runes. I heavily invested in 2 sets of boon duration (1 DPS oriented, 1 Tank/support oriented). If they’re planning to reduce the 2nd bonus of rune of strenght to 10% might duration, then the boon duration will be what? 5%? The boon duration set will be worthless… and I heavily invested in 2 sets =(
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Yay. My heavily invested boon duration will be heavily nerfed…
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Now can I use a sigil of fire & air together? The 2x silgil of blood still work?
Live stream info, typed as I watched it, some stuff got cut off so had to continue in second post lower on page.
TY.