Guild Wars 2

Old issue, but I actually do agree. It would add some diversity to be able to use the spec weapons without having the spec traits.

How to dance volume 1 Gem store item.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Ayrilana.1396:

Unless you bought HoT recently, I do not see why you should be refunded.

Has WvW been implemented?
Have legendary weapons?

No.

to be fair 3 new weapons have been. So you can’t say they literally haven’t

Have you been playing HoT content?
Have you been using new specs/profs?

I don’t really think it’s a try befor you buy situation. Comparing this to food services isn’t exactly a good model. Maybe saying a video game you were promised 8 things from, you bought it with 4 of them ready to go, and were waiting for the remaining parts to be added. You played the game for 7 months and the devs didn’t add everything you had expected (1 thing got canceled) and you want a refund.

Just a few issues.

You played for 7 months…
By roll back to pre hot, what do you mean. Just lock all HoT content on your account? What about HoT only unlocks/cheevos, what about money/gold/exp you earned in HoT content? Or do you mean roll back your entire account to befor you purchased? (could also have issues)

Quaggans

Would be nice, probably won’t happen, there are numerous posts on why.

The forums is a very very small sample of the community and player base. Also as I’ve said in other posts, people who are content or satisfied/enjoying the game tend to be playing vs posting complains. So the nature of the forums tends to look worse then the actual over all feel of the community. Unhappy people tend to be more vocal about what they don’t like.

As far as gem store items go, they do have to make money some how, fixing stuff also takes an income source to keep fixing paid for.

As far as the WoW thing, I duno because I didn’t every really get into it so I’m not sure what WoD etc was, but competition and other releases might also be a cause. Recent releases may draw people away.

Wander.5780:

People quitting the game in droves doesn’t improve the game either. If there was something to stop the hemorraghing of players in the form of a gift you would be against it?

Do you have numbers and actual proof of these “droves”?

Dinks.2478:

Aarean.5398:

Everything.

You love everything? There is not a single thing about this game, not one thing you don’t like? This is some nonsense.

It’s not really entirely nonsense as you could justify someone liking each individual aspect of the game for different reasons. (bugs/etc are not really in this but by aspects of the game I assume we mean intended things)

Maybe he/she enjoys all the various different aspects of play. The thread is geared for positive thinking lets keep it that way

The meta! (Human Female is meta right?)

There are a couple of issues with this.

The forum community doesn’t all want the same things. So the voices that are heard here don’t all go in the same direction.

The GW2 community as a whole vs the forum community are not exactly the same thing, what percent of the GW2 player base actually comes here, reads the posts and responds?

The backlashing is pretty much to be expected. When LS was the only things we got you would see constant forum posts saying “Give us an expansion”. So A-net puts LS on hold at the end of the season and works on an expansion. You then see the same amount of forum posts “Why no more LS”, or “content drought”… It’s impossible to please everyone, and more often then not it’s the people who are upset that will be vocal, while those who are happy with what ever is happening just play and enjoy it.

Maybe it’s a different interpretation of the title…

Guild Wars 2: → Guilds going to war.
With each other
With the quaggan race
With the Black Lion trade agency
With the ELDER DRAGONS.
Any of the following options would be viable interpretations of the title.

Killface.1896:

And I almost sure more people would help rather than kick if some1 have really low dps output at least that what I think of the Anet community

I wish I could have that much faith in the community too! Though I agree kicking may not be the first response for someone that others think is doing really poorly, but trash talk/insults often are.

Razor.9872:

It would in a perfect world. But people more often solve the sub-optimal problem with kicks, rather than advice.

Or if “advice” is given the delivery needs work. xD

1) Cute back packs and minis
2) Kitty ears, Panda ears, Dog ears (you get the picture)
3) Outfits to go along with said ears
4) Swim wear
5) underwater content to go with swim wear

In all seriousness StAllerdyce is right. There are WAY to many unkown issues and variables.

And people need to remember when making their “teams or decisions” You must have some form of profit/money maker. Gem store/gold sinks reasons for people to spend money have to be in the plans if you want to have any sort of sustainable model.

My game style is all my own and can’t be quantified by a survey!

I filled out the whole thing and at the end just got a blue window that said
“your gamer style is”
Achiever Explorer Griefer Socializer

Nothing else no numbers just that top text and the 4 types xD

LOL that is fabulous!

I’m not sure why, maybe it’s the bright colors and style but that made me miss SAB

I stopped due to not having time… If I had time I would continue. Stopping like your friend because you “think” what you are doing is “great” and stopping because you simply do not have the time are two different scenarios. The other scenario for “stopping” is that many players simply don’t care, they play a build and style they enjoy playing (that’s one of the things that makes GW2 great) a group DPS meter would very possibly have a negative impact on this style of play and the player experience.

As far as my friends go I don’t really mind if you doubt them, honestly I doubt they would mind either. I was just using them as an example of people that train by setting their own pace/goals not by comparing them-selves or their performance to others. As far as the goal vs max, if you set a goal of 9k you reached your goal. If the system limits you to 9k then you hit the max. Ambitions differ that’s certainly true, and I think that’s were we are hung up. I don’t really see that as an issue with self-maintained benchmarking, the point of a personal benchmark or goal is to live up to your own ambitions or goals. Some people set high goals, others set mid range, and some set low. No one way is right or wrong, what I don’t like about the group DPS meter is that takes your personal performance and makes it public knowledge. The player is now being measured against others.

But that ruler or measurement of potential DPS would be used as the basis for the test of the players skill.

^^; Yea it seems like we are~ different reasons but the same over all stance on the issue.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Those flamingos wish they were as fabulous as we are.

I wish we were as fabulous as they are~

Well yes I don’t any more, because I haven’t been able to dedicate much if any time to playing. If I had more then a little time, I’d love to go and test new builds and ideas. I simply do not have that free time at the moment; real life DOES happen. So you are making an assumption about me, which in this case is wrong.

Have you seen the amount of people that would like a way to check personal DPS? Just so they can see how they are doing in each different build etc.

Actually alot of people I know do infact use themselves as the benchmark for personal training… They set their own goals and try to meet them when working out. They do not look around at others to gauge what their personal level should be. Nor do they look at others to make them selves feel good because they are doing “more”.

I also said just taking a snip of your highest dps is misleading as well. If you are talking about sharing builds I highly doubt it would be limited to just the in game groups you happen to meet. Most people would post them etc. A DPS meter is just like a school test; a measure of a persons performance at the given time. Is it 100% accurate measure of their actual ability and potential, probably not. If for any moment anything I typed made you think I actually think a party DPS meter would be a good addition I apologize. I think it would be a terrible addition.

grandsar.1067:

In guild halls, plz

^^; Don’t say that! What if it ends up being some max scribe thing

Would be great! Though instead of cities I’d rather have them in home instances. (Heck A-net why not sell a node for them)

DGraves.3720:

First, you can’t benchmark against yourself unless you believe there is something missing which naturally at some point you will not regardless of whether that is the best point or not. You will think “I have done my best” and be satisfied but at times that satisfaction is false just like my buddy who thought he was awesome but was actually very behind.

I strongly disagree with this. I use to test builds constantly. Testing and changing rotations, seeing if I could beat my personal best. I did this for my own enjoyment, and the performance of others did not, and still does not impact how I feel about it. You are claiming one train of thought or thought process is the only one that all people use; this is simply not the case. Different things motivate people into actions. Just because your buddy was that way doesn’t mean everyone else is to.

DGraves.3720:

Second, video is the poorest source for most things partially because they can (and are) edited and partially because it’s almost impossible to chart behavior and damage because in real combat each match is different! Sometimes it won’t be you who gets one-shotted in that bad position and others it will, because remember that for world record runs it takes many, many tries even if you only see one video. This misleads on two fronts:

1. Skill level. Everything going off perfectly looks natural with a skill level of godhood in a video that’s X minutes long and a world record. Skill doesn’t look so good when it took 168 real hours ( a week ) to actually shoot this because human error and someone dun goofed or even just a bad run of luck.

2. Build value. Some builds are perfect counters to content. That’s just how things go whether it’s PvP or WvWvW or PvE; there are times when a build may just naturally do better in certain scenarios so the player thinks “this is awesome!” when in reality it is awesome some of the time against certain mechanics used by enemy X. Because build value does fluctuate between encounters and even between solo and group play it’s really important that players don’t just sign up for what they see.

And a snip picture of your DPS meter in a party displayed DPS meter avoids all of the potential for misleading? Do you think most people are going to post their screw up dps or low end dps… Or will they show the TOP DPS potential of the build they are showing off. How does you showing your dps and the DPS of those around you (that may not even realize they are being “monitored”) remove potential for misleading?

And of course build power fluctuates between encounters. A party DPS meter would also fluctuate between encounters based on the build and how well it’s played. So in one fight build A might look simply stunning while in another it’s sub-optimal.

DGraves.3720:

Basically if you watch a professional sports player play you, the viewer at home, cannot actually conceive of how difficult it is to do the same thing if you, the viewer, are not in that position. If you are in that position you’re playing though, not watching, in GW2 that’s building your own builds, not watching videos, not being mesmerized by flukes or repeated runs that took hours and hours to get right for five minutes of amazing. But they are watching; they have no idea what level of coordination and trust that actually takes and they want to go to PUG with that?
We both know how that ended.

Actually playing in GW2 is playing the game, with or without using your own build you are still the player. You say “flukes”, and make it sound like you believe everyone is out there trying to mislead or deceive people. There is actually good information out there about builds and play styles as well. So yes there are guides/builds out there that claim to be far better then they are, and videos of people fighting in optimized situations, I just don’t see how a party DPS meter would change that.

We both know how what ended?

DGraves.3720:

How do you benchmark your own performance if you cannot compare with others?

You can’t possibly, for the most part, do better if you don’t know what is possible or where you stand. Diablo comes to mind; I had a friend who was content at GR38 and thought his build was awesome … until he saw a video of GR60+. He revised.

By the way that is half the problem. Those who profess that their builds are the best have no regulated way to measure them or competition from others. Claims are only claims.

Pretty easy, take note of what you are doing, make alterations and changes see how it compares, repeat and fine tune. Personal performance is easily measured and marked without others being present. You do not need to know how everyone else is doing to improve your own personal performance.

Watching a video of someone doing something different =/= to a DPS meter.

Saying a DPS meter would be used to measure builds is fine, but I see no reason why you would need a group dps meter to do that, post your build, or make a video of it, with a personal DPS meter shown. That solves the “claims are only claims” issue.

It’s not hard to understand, most people have more fun winning then losing.

I thought raids were for players that wanted more challenging organized content, not for people that like to “play to win” as I don’t think many people play to lose.

You can play to win without using a group DPS meter. A personal meter would make working on your personal performance easier, however I don’t think it’s necessary to check on other players.

Yep, that’s why I said they could be doing something more meaningful. ^^; Though most people who are doing this probably don’t understand the mechanic, so your general call outs for break damage/cc will help. Others simply don’t care.

From my experience being an kitten isn’t age restricted. Listening, guiding, and cooperation skills vary from person to person.

Are you doing guild mission puzzles? I can’t really see a need to give or get salty about instructions on a jumping puzzle.

MadRabbit.3179:

Miku.6297:

A DPS meter probably wouldn’t measure how well someone handles a break bar…

And that’s not actually true, by the way, just as a side note. Break bars work off calculations nearly identical to damage with each CC skill having it’s own unique break bar damage value.

It creates some interesting implications. A mesmer, for example, has skills that can pretty shatter a break bar single handedly, but a very long cooldown, influencing how often they can do it. On the other hand, if I devote multiple utility slots and use a pistol offhand, I can consistently break a non scaled champion’s break bar with my daredevil, because those skills do lesser break bar damage, but have shorter cooldowns so they can be cycled more.

So if you had a meter that measured these contributions, each player’s resulting contribution will be different based on their class, but everyone’s name should appear in the list from time to time, because, to be honest, if you are pugging a map meta, you should have, at least, one CC skill in on your utility bar.

Now, obviously, a mesmer will make a big hit maybe once every three break bars, while I will appear on the list as a thief every break bar. But over the course of like 3 bars, everyone’s name should have appeared once in the lists or they just aren’t contributing.

Yet a traditional DPS meter would most likely pick up the damage (actual damage) not break bar damage done. If you want a Meter that shows, break damage, healing, boons, mortality time, etc that’s a different mater. Yep as a mesmer player I know lots of ways to inflict damage onto a break bar, I just don’t really think a typical DPS meter would track that vs tracking the damage done.

With the last part of your statement I would agree if it were worded as “they just aren’t contributing to the break damage” but saying “they just aren’t contributing” isn’t always true. Yes they could probably be doing something more meaningful by doing break damage, but saying they aren’t contributing is a stretch.

MadRabbit.3179:

I just don’t believe those two factors can successfully co-exist, given the nature of online games. Either make the content so easy it can’t fail or accept that this is how it will be with players tearing into each other in public channels when failure happens.

The cultural climate change in map chat that began to appear with the new maps and escalated into what it is now in HoT was not a huge surprise to me. I was anticipating it the moment they stated challenging open world content as a design goal.

I agree, the main issue is if people aren’t winning/succeeding they aren’t happy. At the same time players request more challenging content… If content is challenging it’s not always going to be beaten.

Haha yea that’s true, having challenging open world content as a goal is pretty much a guaranteed way to increase the sodium level of the environment. From the day Tea kettle was released with his update, to this day with HOT that result is unfortunately what happens.

I guess just see more negative outcomes coming from a group wide DPS meter than positives.

I think it depends on your definition of “hounding”; actively leading and giving direction is one thing.

Hounding has a more negative connotation: harass, persecute, or pursue relentlessly.

A DPS meter probably wouldn’t measure how well someone handles a break bar… It’s also different calling for people in general to do x or y at certain points in a fight. Vs calling people out for performance on a DPS meter.

DGraves.3720:

Let’s think of this in reverse: If you are accused of being worthless and not doing your part by someone with a higher reputation than you what exactly do you have in your defense? My concern is not for hardproof of a truth but for simple hearsay being a strong dictator of player behavior. People lie, people are wrong, people theorize poorly, and people throw their weight around sometimes even subconsciously. If the person who states you are worthless has always hated the class you play and always thought them worthless what defense do you have? Necromancers and Rangers have experienced this pretty much from launch and just recently have been given partial credit for their abilities. All based on hearsay and a few people going, “They’re dumb” but happening to be popular.

Right I get that, a person could be falsely accused, at the same time false accusations based on opinion is not going to be as prevalent as if a measuring stick is applied to everyone.

Look at your statement in reverse, if a DPS meter is applied and numeric proof is established, if a class is always on the lower end how would having that be posted for everyone to see benefit the player?

DGraves.3720:

No, actually many of my ideas were undervalued then came to be noted later on but that’s not the point. My point is exactly as I state above; people are defenseless and rank and reputation are king right now. That needs to change. Meritocracy is far better than Aristocracy.

Sorry that’s what I meant, you had undervalued ideas that later became valued. I agree 100% merit of proof is better then just reputation or word of mouth. My concern is: if build B is actually better then build A even though reputation/hearsay says other wise currently. If a DPS meter came in and proved in terms of DPS build B is actually better, build A and build B have simply switched place. The difference being if you are not in build B the DPS meter shows it to the whole group.

Builds and guides posted could utilize a personal DPS meter just as well, without the negative effects of a group DPS meter.

MadRabbit.3179:

there is absolutely nothing commanders can do about them except attempt to hound them in map chat.

I do understand theres nothing a commander can do about it, I guess I just don’t think a group DPS meter would make this situation any better. Just how often does “hounding” another player elicit a good response?

People hounding other people is really something that I hope A-net continues to try to avoid. That’s why I’m against a group DPS meter, a personal one I have no issue with, and actually think could be useful for many players.

DGraves.3720:

The thing is discrimination isn’t going away. But what could be established is a true minimum required to win for a class and so long as a player meets that minimum no one will fuss.

That’s true it’s not going away, but it doesn’t need to be encouraged either, a DPS meter gives numerical proof so now there is hard data to prove someone is right when they ridicule or discriminate against another player? Why would that be a good thing.

It sounds like you got burned by a build you liked being under valued then someone else running it and it picking up steam. I think alot of people have had something like that happen (at least those who don’t just go to a sight to get a build). I know it’s happend to me, but it’s not really a big deal who came up with what first.

I honestly do not want mounts in this game… That first picture could change my mind!

Eloid.4569:

Raid = HARDCORE GAME CONTENT, why not dps meter?….

stop saying “discrimination”, hardcore content need it, the rest of the game is casual, stop crying …

I agree with the previous poster, want and need are getting mixed up here. People have completed the raid without a DPS meter, so you probably don’t need it.

As for hardcore content vs the rest of the game. You may want a group dps meter for “hardcore” content, but that is not the content the majority of players will be playing. The DPS meter would infact impact the rest of the game as well.

Fermi.2409:

The thing is, if you decide to leave things out because people won’t understand it or will misunderstand it there’s not much that you can add. Everyone else shouldn’t be held back because others don’t know how to interpret the results of the tool.

Once gain, I never said that because people will misunderstand or not fully interpret a DPS meter was a reason to not include one (there are plenty of other good reasons as many have said). I simply said that DPS meters focus on DPS, and tend to draw focus to it; while neglecting other important roles or aspects of play.

Fermi.2409:

True, but more information is going to be better then less information in this case.

Better based on what? It would make min/maxing and checking up on your group members easier, but that’s not exactly better.

Fermi.2409:

Because it’s fun and can benefit the group? And the game isn’t necessarily about inclusion, especially when it comes to raids.

And what is the most common use to benefit the group (remove the lowest values…) The GW2 manifesto was HIGHLY based on inclusive gameplay, and I believe the devs are still trying to keep things inclusive vs exclusive. Raids do demand a higher level of coordination, but why put in a tool that will be used to exclude others from ALL group content to benefit a smaller number of plays doing raid content?

Fermi.2409:

It often is or can be, though. And improving and starting to kick out high numbers is awesome.

A competition with the npcs? A competition about kitten swinging and who is “better” based solely on numbers really isn’t a positive addition. Yes kicking out high numbers is fun, but I don’t see how a PERSONAL meter wouldn’t allow you to do this.

Fermi.2409:

Not really. It’s generally a pretty even split.

In this forum post:
I see 5-6 posters saying DPS meters would bring mainly positive.
I see 14-16 posters saying DPS meters would be a waste of time or used in a negative way.

Fermi.2409:

The thing is, it’s a wide-spouted idea without much to back it up. The number of times you state it doesn’t make it any more true, especially without anything to prove it.

It’s no more “wide spouted” then saying GW2 needs DPS meters, or any of the other statements. Though there is plenty of history and other games with DPS meters we can look at to back it up.

Lightsbane.9012:

how is something so immensely important to the entire population of divinity’s reach so neglected as far as content?

I totally agree! It would be great to see more centaur war stuff. Till then I’m not to worried about them though after all… I can out run a centaur!

Fermi.2409:

Sure, that’s one use. There’s plenty of others.

There may be some others, but the OP clearly had this as one of his reasons.

Fermi.2409:

Personal DPS is always important; you want to maximize that as much as you can while still fulfilling your other roles. When did I ever say it was king?

That being said, an ideal meter would be able to track things such as boons shared, HP healed/players ressed, etc, like many games have (or at least they have a couple meters to fill any role).

Never said you did, I was pointing out that in general, the extreme focus on DPS vs other things that meters tend to bring may miss out on many other aspects of play.

That’s true there are are games that have meters that can track a variety of different things. How ever tracking everything and tracking meaningful actions aren’t always the same.

Fermi.2409:

It allows team comparisons between different phases of fights, comparisons between different classes/players performing the same role/playing the same class, and, of course, can be used to see who’s doing the highest DPS overall. There are plenty of reasons to have a group DPS meter.

In a game about inclusion, why is there a need for competing with other players in the same role and same class? It’s not a competition, the highest numbers doesn’t always mean the best player.

Fermi.2409:

You keep saying this like it’s going to happen left and right, but the only people who are going to use it to kick people asap are the kind of people that have idiotic group requirements these days anyways. You’re making it sound like a widespread issue when it’s far from the case.

Exclude/ridicule =/= kick asap. If you look at the MASSIVE other posts about DPS meters you will see that the majority of posters here are against it. If you look in this post you will see alot of players are against it. I keep saying that because that is one of the main reasons people have been against DPS meters in GW2 from day 1. The amount of times I state it doesn’t make it any more or less extreme or widespread an issue. The only real way to see how widespread it would be, would be to add it and see what happens, which I’m not a fan of.

As many have said, this idea would end up with mass confusion, almost everything is mega server based now. so whispering by server name seems silly. I’m actually happy with the system the way it is now, and haven’t really had much trouble coming up with names. Yes popular names like Legolas, Cloud, Serah Farron, Sephiroth, (insert other popular media reference here) are taken, but that’s pretty normal for almost any MMO.

The only way I could see this making duplicate character names passable is if your account name were tagged onto your name (which I’m sure people would hate) for instance /whisper Charactername@accountname.numbers message

KRUSSIDULL.6845:

This way it’s possible to release more names for people without removing names from inactive account even if I would prefer 3+ years inactive account should have their names released for others to use.

100% hate this idea do not take names that players have away. (It’s also an extremely short sighted fix) most of the names people posting threads like this are trying to get are taken, and will be retaken seconds after opened.

DGraves.3720:

Discrimination is currently based on rumor rather than numerical fact.

Discrimination based on either isn’t a positive outcome. A DPS meter just makes it that much easier to single out another player and exclude them based on the numbers shown. Most people probably don’t join runs and say “Hi guys I’m running an un-optimal build”. They enter do the run and everyone goes their own way.

I have to admit I smiled at the “tools are tools”. Not sure if you meant it in all ways possible it just seems so fitting for the subject at hand xD.

I agree Pugs currently don’t feel as picky, but that’s partial because as you said, there is no numeric data given to the pugs to use as a basis for discrimination. Put a group displayed DPS meter into place, and I almost guarantee it will be used to exclude and ridicule other players.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Serophous.9085:

Really? Another one of these? We’re gonna run out of horses at this point

Wrong thread — this is about DPS meters, not mounts.

But what if it’s about Distance per second meters?

Surbrus.6942:

I see what you mean now. However I don’t really see the need for the degree of privacy that masking party member’s DPS would give.

The degree of privacy is to prevent the normal exclusions and ridicule that is inherent with group DPS displays. While I agree it could give players a chance to learn more, more often then not the “advice” that is given is frequently not given or received in a positive light.

@DGraves: How many players would actually be effected positively by this? The distortion you are referring to would be very prevalent in organized/meta build groups. However a group DPS meter would have also have a large effect on pugs, do you think the effects of the DPS meter would be more positive than negative in a pug or group that is not optimized?

@Surbrus: right, I get that. Assuming DPS and source was being adequately identified (meaning DPS would be being attributed to the mesmer in this case) why would that player need to see the other party members DPS? My initial question isn’t about understanding how the DPS/boons work (I understand that part fine), it’s why would someone need to see other peoples DPS.

To clarify; If the DPS isn’t being being sourced/distributed adequately (what you see your self doing is what you see in the meter), or if it is. (gains from boons/buffs in DPS count towards the boon providers DPS). Are the a large amount of uses outside of the negative ones mentioned?

I’m still confused as to how that shows a need for group displayed DPS rather then just personal DPS.

If the dps and the source is adequately identified, why would the thief need to see the other players DPS as well?

A personal DPS tracker would be pretty nice you could use it to gauge how you are doing DPS wise.

I just don’t see alot of uses outside of exclusion and ridicule for group DPS meters. Unless by group you mean a meter that displays the entire groups output, not each individual persons.

DGraves.3720:

Builds like Venom Thief need this. Any build that uses mechanics that shares effect, applies effects, or alter teammates. I do understand that it is a double-edged sword; one that may not worth drawing.

If the damage meter attributed the venom damage to the thief using venom share, I don’t see why it would be necessary to have a group dps meter. If it did not attribute the DPS to the thief, Then it would be the same as group boons etc which would most likely just be lumped into someones personal dps. (which is why I said in my first post, personal DPS is not the best measurment of contribution in GW2).

For me it was Bolt! Loved it then, still love it now. Though honestly my first thought was… On to the next.

Fermi.2409:

What a gross misrepresentation of the entire argument(s) to try to justify your views.

Personally I’d like to see the option of having a well-integrated DPS meter (read: not the one that reads the chat box).

Did you miss this part of the OP:

DragonXtwoX.3591:

A DPS meter that all can see also helps with those players that feel they can go into an instance and just auto attack instead of learning good rotations. Players don’t want people see them being a carry and not giving their all.

Let me start by saying, if you think personal DPS is king in GW2; that’s the first mistake. Boons/clears/positioning/ resing all come into play, and a DPS meter probably isn’t going to catch all this as well.

As far as a group dps meter. I’m curious other then to exclude or scrutinize others play, for what purpose would you need a meter that showed more then your own dps?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

^He worked it out with the Guild Leader; did you guys miss that post?

Yep, I totally missed it~ Glad it worked out for the best!

Your best option at this point is to make a new guild, if the leader is unwilling to step down you can’t force him out.

ToraSempai.8946:

The sub-leader and me (another sub-leader) are deciding to expel him from the guild. We know that we can’t because he’s the leader, but he’s also refusing to give either of us the full leadership.

Not to take sides here, but if you and another are planning to take over the guild, and looking to expel him, that may be the reason he is reluctant to hand over full leadership powers.

Over all as most have said just make a new one.

Push all the buttons!

Either that or like Brogan Lackery run away~

Would love it if that happened! It seems like it wouldn’t be that big a change, just make it hold what ever gun is in the mesmers offhand.