Guild Wars 2

Thank you everyone for clarifications and input. I agree, let’s wait for the video.

Cameron, I know, but I am scared to invest a lot of time again… last time it took me 1 month to prepare my guardian for tanking and it was a total waste. If I want to play revenant, I first need to do all the skill points, learn it’s rotations by heart and feel comfortable playing it. So far, I feel comfortable only with guardian and engineer, and my guardian is me… if I could swap profession but be on the same character, it would be great….I know it is not very logical reason, but it is mine.

bladex.9502:

Mortifer.2946:

bladex.9502:

Thaddeus.4891:

bladex.9502:

Thaddeus.4891:

bladex.9502:

And who exactly is this person responsible for the build and why would everything he say automatically be true?

Well it seem that it’s Thor the leader of Snow Crow, which is a know speed running guild and on of the first guild to achieve no updraft gorseval. That said, I would still want to see the tests and not just believe him without proof like mister Mortifer.

I know who Thor is, but that doesn’t mean that everything he says is true

And that’s what I said too. But I answered the question. You asked ‘’And who exactly is this person’’ so I answered and say that he’s credible, but I would still want proof.

I kinda used that wording to ask the OP why exactly he believes everything the build mentions is true, not to question who made it, I know SC is in charge of the metabattle builds now :P

You know, I did believe metabattle, because if you check raid section, you can see all the meta builds that are actually wanted in raids. If some patch changes something, you can see a pretty fast update on metabattle. And also, guardian was NEVER in the meta section up until now. I believe this guy, he has a lot of experience and he tested it several times. I however agree he needs to show evidence.

But if he will, and he happens to be right, what then? Do you think the general consensus of guardians in raids can change? I guess being the third damager is still not good enough for these min/max pug elitists. …. Some noob don’t even know his class but put his money or time into making multiple characters according to some build guides can get there and me not…even though I watched hundreds of minutes of raid gameplay and being a fairly good player and a veteran.

I think the guardian’s position in the so called meta is currently being hindered by the addition of revenant, since it provides pretty much a guard can do, and more.
That being said guardian has never been bad, and with the current balancing and extremely low difficulty of the raids, you should have no problem killing the raid bosses even with dragonhunters in your group.

If you used to pug a lot you would know that the average pugs just copy their builds from sites like metabattle, and suddenly think they are really good players and should judge other people based on things like their builds, or even ap, while in reality they have no clue what they are doing

Well yeah, I agree with that. I just want to go with the flow, because as I don’t have my own squad, I have to go with these people.

I’m not saying I am enjoying it… I just want to get in as a guardian. Dahkeus has a pretty important point. Overriding fire fields si not worth the protection. I really hate the state of the profession balance right now. Arenanet, whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

bladex.9502:

Thaddeus.4891:

bladex.9502:

Thaddeus.4891:

bladex.9502:

And who exactly is this person responsible for the build and why would everything he say automatically be true?

Well it seem that it’s Thor the leader of Snow Crow, which is a know speed running guild and on of the first guild to achieve no updraft gorseval. That said, I would still want to see the tests and not just believe him without proof like mister Mortifer.

I know who Thor is, but that doesn’t mean that everything he says is true

And that’s what I said too. But I answered the question. You asked ‘’And who exactly is this person’’ so I answered and say that he’s credible, but I would still want proof.

I kinda used that wording to ask the OP why exactly he believes everything the build mentions is true, not to question who made it, I know SC is in charge of the metabattle builds now :P

You know, I did believe metabattle, because if you check raid section, you can see all the meta builds that are actually wanted in raids. If some patch changes something, you can see a pretty fast update on metabattle. And also, guardian was NEVER in the meta section up until now. I believe this guy, he has a lot of experience and he tested it several times. I however agree he needs to show evidence.

But if he will, and he happens to be right, what then? Do you think the general consensus of guardians in raids can change? I guess being the third damager is still not good enough for these min/max pug elitists. …. Some noob don’t even know his class but put his money or time into making multiple characters according to some build guides and then he gets there and me not…even though I watched hundreds of minutes of raid gameplay and being a fairly good player and a veteran.

Guys you are pretty cranky if somebody touches your stuff….sorry for being a poor guardian wanting to have fun with you.

bladex.9502:

Mortifer.2946:

bladex.9502:

Mortifer.2946:

bladex.9502:

I’m pretty sure that this is far from being the 3rd best DPS.
Guardians are in a pretty bad situation in raids I guess, since their DPS isn’t top tier, and things they used to be really good at are now done better by other classes.
If you want to pug with this, there’s a chance a few groups will kick you because guardian isn’t really in the raid meta, but there’s nothing stopping you from playing it if you like it

It wouldn’t get into metabattle meta section if it wasn’t ….

Implying metabattle is some kind of holy grail of builds?
You ask people for their opinions, and when they give their opinion you say they are wrong because metabattle said otherwise?
Whats the point of even making this thread then? lol

Oh, no no… Sorry, I didn’t mean that. What I meant is that the person responsible for this build would not claim that it is the 3rd best DPS (sustained, not burst) if it wasn’t. Please read his comment.

And who exactly is this person responsible for the build and why would everything he say automatically be true?

Anyways, in your OP you ask “If I commit to it and reforge my armor/weapons and buy those 2 expesnive sigils and 6 runes, do you think a general PUG group would let me in with them for the whole run?” and the simple answer to that is no

You sure seem to be really persistent about it being the 3rd highest DPS in the game, but can you show any proof of it?
In fact, most builds have videos of them actually doing a certain amount of DPS, but this metabattle article just states that it does the 3rd highest dps in the game, and doesn’t show any evidence for it

Yes, thank you for feed back kitten this hehe …Since I started playing fractals and open world maps, I actually started having fun again. It is not worth to ruin my love of guild wars just for some 3 gimmicky bosses that are the first attempt of ArenaNet on making a raid content.

According to the tests of the CURATOR of guardian for PVE section on metabattle, it has the third best sustained DPS among all professions that actually beats burst DPS of GS/LB guardian. It is a completely new build made possible post 26th patch because of the nerfs of other classes. I get the scepticism, but this guy knows what he is saying. Also, he mentioned he will make some spread sheets so he can present the actual damage.

Leezy.4567:

. So yes, it isn’t the best option for max grp damage, but it is a good option and the best for Guardian."

[/quote]

group > personal. If you wanted to go for personal damage. thief, ele plenty of them out in the LFG.

[/quote]

Okay, so your answer is no, 3rd in damage is not good enough for PUGs. Okay thank you. Back to ignoring raids then.

bladex.9502:

Mortifer.2946:

bladex.9502:

I’m pretty sure that this is far from being the 3rd best DPS.
Guardians are in a pretty bad situation in raids I guess, since their DPS isn’t top tier, and things they used to be really good at are now done better by other classes.
If you want to pug with this, there’s a chance a few groups will kick you because guardian isn’t really in the raid meta, but there’s nothing stopping you from playing it if you like it

It wouldn’t get into metabattle meta section if it wasn’t ….

Implying metabattle is some kind of holy grail of builds?
You ask people for their opinions, and when they give their opinion you say they are wrong because metabattle said otherwise?
Whats the point of even making this thread then? lol

Oh, no no… Sorry, I didn’t mean that. What I meant is that the person responsible for this build would not claim that it is the 3rd best DPS (sustained, not burst) if it wasn’t. Please read his comment.

Leezy.4567:

You could try. But i wouldn’t imagine people would bring you along especially pugs.
because according to the build some of the benefits a guardian would bring it already brought by another class and done better
1. “perm protection” – rev already has it
2. healing – should be covered by a druid, you wouldn’t need the passive heal from a guard

As for third dps i think you must have misread. He says “On a sidenote, this is the highest damage build of the Guardian. The higher damage GS/LB or GS/Mace,Focus(Torch) offers with their burst gets negated over time and the Hammer takes over with the higher constant DPS.”

Down in comments section the owner of the build says:
“I did several testings and stuff and I came always to the same result. Hammer Guardian got the highest sustained DPS of all Guardian builds. It is somehow sad, that auto attack offers more DPS than actually doing rotations, but you cant do anything against the numbers.
I should work on a proper spreadsheet to get a good graph to show, that the DPS over time is superior to the other Guardian builds.
Another thing is, at the current state of the game, this build “only” gets out DPS’d by Eles and Thiefs. So yes, it isn’t the best option for max grp damage, but it is a good option and the best for Guardian."

bladex.9502:

I’m pretty sure that this is far from being the 3rd best DPS.
Guardians are in a pretty bad situation in raids I guess, since their DPS isn’t top tier, and things they used to be really good at are now done better by other classes.
If you want to pug with this, there’s a chance a few groups will kick you because guardian isn’t really in the raid meta, but there’s nothing stopping you from playing it if you like it

It wouldn’t get into metabattle meta section if it wasn’t ….

The drop rate is definitely too low. You can’t rely on these crafting materials if you want to get infused ring. You actually have bigger chance of getting your infused berseker ring from just doing dailies.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_DPS/Support

Please check this build which got into meta.
EDIT: Also, please read the first comment on the webpage written by the owner of the build.
If I commit to it and reforge my armor/weapons and buy those 2 expesnive sigils and 6 runes, do you think a general PUG group would let me in with them for the whole run? According to the tests of the guy who developed this build, guardians have 3rd best DPS in it after ele and thief.

Also, I am geared into Marauder/knight/cavalier/zerk mix and have 1502 toughness for tanking. I suppose there is no point in trying to get into a pug group as a tank, right? (raiding guild is not an option for me for my weird time schedule)

eithedog.4678:

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_DPS/Support

This is amazing news! Even though I won’t get the spot of tank, I can still get in as DPS/support.

DH F3 has a 0,5 sec cast time. Tooltip is just broken. They either need to delete the animation and make it instant, or fix the tooltip.

Stat combinations on gear are a big mess in general. There is no consistency and one cannot live without wikipedia. All stat combinations should be available and for reasonable price.

savacli.8172:

Why doesn’t Guardian make the cut? The current wing simply does make use of all a Guardian has to offer.

So for the most part, there’s a general consensus/plea that Guards should have the Tank role. Okay, what does a Guard have to offer? Group Boons (stab, Aegis, Proc, Regen), condi clear, AoE stunbreak, Projectile management, Blinds, area denial, moderate healing, and moderate DPS (quick list, I know I’m missing things). Now how much of that do we actually need in the first wing?

The other problem is that Guardians relies on more active defenses than passive ones. In other words if you miss a dodge or don’t have the right boons/blocks up you’re in for a bad time. Compared to a Necro? That guy can just stand there and take a beating (to an extent) while dishing out a very respectable amount of damage. Chronotanks? Yeah, they rely on a healthy mix of active and passive defenses, but the buffs/boons they can simultaneously offer make them quite the contender for the Tank spot. Heck, I’ve even seen Warriors outshine a Guardian in the tanking role since, like a Necro, they can take a beat but offer party buffs at the same time.

So yeah….Guards got the short end of the stick on this wing. Maybe on the next wing we’ll be presented challenges that better cater to the package that a Guard can bring. I’m not saying that you can’t bring a Guard to tank, it’s just that other classes can fulfill that role with more efficiency and with more to offer so most teams will opt for the more optimal/efficient choice.

Ultimately though, if you’re not setting up your own runs you’re at the mercy of what you team is demanding. And seeing how Guards aren’t on the “meta list” I can understand why there’s a potential for gripes when you try to present yourself as a Guard tank.

In my case of feeling sad and cheated, it is my own fault. I should have waited longer before I committed to something. I saw a lot of videos by guilds like DnT who were killing VG with DH tank, so after 3 nights of failed attempts in semi optimal gear, I decided I will stop raiding until I get geared up properly and accordingly to the DH tank build posted on DnT forums in order to MINIMIZE the probability of me being a weak point in the squad and consequently being kicked out or forced to change character. By the time I finished everything and burned all my gold, I found out this DH tank tactics is obsolete and nobody wants me… yeah.. and now I am supposed to get hero points for my revenant or warrior, give him my gear, reforge it, craft some more weapons and play with that. If only I waited and saved up the gold I could now just rant about not being able to play with my main toon, rather than being forced out of the whole content.

True Shot locks you in spot. Whirling wrath doesn’t. True shot does damage only in line. Whirling wrath does damage all around you + it is more projectiles than true shot, so you can do much better combos.

Bow is not the problem. The basic guardian is.

Zantmar.5406:

Mortifer.2946:

F3 on DH has only one annoying property – not having insta cast…if you have something in the skill queue, you cast F3 after that. That is however a fair exchange for nice projectile block
CD… like every 40 seconds.

its not just a projectile block. it blocks any attack even aoes as long as ur enemie is infront of you, in my ponion its much much stronger than the base line version which is just a single ageis

Really? I never noticed that. It shouldn’t however. It clearly says it blocks projectiles, nothing else.

From my experience, if you have above 70% crit chance with fury on, it is enough. However, there will be people claiming that it is not enough. Those people think there is any difference between 98% crit chance and 100% crit chance.

Guardian definitely needs some love. Elite specializations were never supposed to be “stronger”. They should just give new role to the profession. Guardian got stronger in AoE DPS and CC. He also gets much better virtues. Developers shouldn’t forget that virtues without DH traitline need a little boost.

The point of specializations was supposed to be that you lose something but you also gain something (there used to be a lot of discussion topics on this matter). What we lost in the transition from Guardian into Dragon Hunter? The answer is: the original virtues.

Original Virtues have (in PVP without any trinkets and traits):
F1: insta cast, 25 sec cooldown, every 5 seconds soft burn,
Activation: strong burn for you and your party in the next attack.
F2: insta cast, 50 sec cooldown, passive healing for 84,
Activation: party heal for 1625
F3: insta cast, 75 sec cooldown, passive aegis that refreshes every 40 seconds,
Activation: party aegis for 20 sec

New virtues have:
F1: 1/4 sec cast, 20 sec cooldown, soft burning every kittens
activation: unblockable damaging projectile that applies soft burn over a long period of time and allowing to execute it prematurely for extra very strong pull
F2: 1 sec casting time, 30 sec cooldown, 84 passive heal
Activation: AoE 3890 heal with leap combo finisher, cures immobilized
F3: has a casting time, 75 sec cooldown, passive aegis that refreshes every 40 sec
activation: 1 party aegis for 20 sec + blocking projectiles in front of the character for 20 sec

From this breakdown, you can see, that:
F1 skill on DH is a pure boost over basic version. There is no reason why somebody would prefer the basic one.
F2 on DH has 20 sec shorter CD for more than 100% stronger heal. It heals only people in the smart circle and not in the 600 range, but it is definitely much better.
F3 on DH has only one annoying property – not having insta cast…if you have something in the skill queue, you cast F3 after that. That is however a fair exchange for nice projectile block

What I think should be improved on base guardian:
F1: much lower cooldown or much stronger burn on activation
F2: much stronger passive heal and much shorter cooldown
F3: this one is alright…. I would however give both versions of this skill much lower CD… like every 40 seconds.

Thaddeus.4891:

Serious.6940:

Actually raids are inaccessible because they are too tough. If your squad is anything less than the absolute best players you are going to hit that 8 minute time limit. Not having a proper team that play together regularly, or even not having every player on voice comms, just makes that much worse.

Raids were not designed for pugs typing into the chat box. They were not designed for the average GW2 player. They were designed for the top few percent.

To make raids more accessible anet need to nurf it.

Well I saw plenty of pugs succeed at the raid. Of course raid will never be and shouldn’t accessible to all players. But it should remove as much obstacle as possible to form a group so that player that failed at doing the raid is because they are not good enough, not because they don’t have a guild doing raid or 9 other friends doing raid.

This is exactly my point I was trying to make on numerous occasions.

However I would also add easy rewardless mode for story and exploration.

I shall never play casino again! NEVER!

/signed

Huh?

Oh, okay, I get it… in future wings guardians have a lot of potential. It is just sad that in the first wing not so much.
Gotta focus on my work now. Have a nice day

I actually got 2 vials in like 30 seconds while doing low level Urban Battleground.
What I don’t like is that I can now get Shards only from doing 50+. It should have stayed at 30, or at least 40.

Auto-attack protection needs to last longer, so we can have perma protection even if we want to use other skills. Skill 2 is OK, but should execute faster – the animation is clunky and locks you on spot after you hit the ground. Skill 3 needs to be faster. Skill 4 needs lower cooldown. Skill 5 needs to be less clunky – it shouldn’t lock us on spot when casted and in PVE it should work as CC for everything locked inside of it (even if their hit box doesn’t cross the circle.)

This is what I would do if I didn’t want to think about how to completely re-do hammer. What do you think guys?

Cranos, I’m trying to be polite.

So what do you mean by active defense? Spamming Hammer 1 for protection and mace for regeneration?

Yeah, guardian shines at active defense, but in the end, is party aegis good enough compared to distortion by a mesmer who can time the skill right? Guardian doesn’t even have that much party aegis: F3, Shield 4, Retreat…is there something else?

just bad luck

2x herald, 2x PS warrior, 2x alacrity chrono and you have all the support you need. One healing druid and the rest can be pure DPS.

Banners are exclusive to warrior + they have nice ress skill on downed ppl. Chrono has exclusive boons too. Herald has non exclusive boons, but his uptime is 100%. Guardians never have 100% uptime. Plus, their DPS is lower than herald’s.

There is a reason why nobody on LFG looks for guardians. (and in raiding guilds too)

Azure.8670:

Mortifer.2946:

cranos.5913:

What I don’t understand is why you people see the guardian only in a tank role. It could easily pick up its former job of support dps too in future raid wings. All they need to do is create encounters that actually require it. There’s no need to push the class into a niche role.

Look at it this way, if they’re only good as tanks they have 8 other classes to contend with for a single raid spot. It’s not because it’s called a “guardian” that it’s all about soaking up dmg.

Mortifer.2946:

Chronomancer was never supposed to be tank anyway. That class sounds like pure ranged dps/support.

I guess that’s why they gave it a shield huh? An offhand to go with their many one handed range options.

Yea, Arenanet should give elemetalists shield too, then they would be tanks too, right? Or maybe they can give it to thieves! Amazing! So many tanks in rags and pyjamas!!!

….The problem about support guardian is that other professions do it better than us.

Ele is not of the best tanks. I’d take a shield

You know what? Let’s do this! And also let’s give guardians alacrity and more quickness, also let’s give them burst heals and nonstop boons and 12K burning. You know…just to shake things up.

cranos.5913:

What I don’t understand is why you people see the guardian only in a tank role. It could easily pick up its former job of support dps too in future raid wings. All they need to do is create encounters that actually require it. There’s no need to push the class into a niche role.

Look at it this way, if they’re only good as tanks they have 8 other classes to contend with for a single raid spot. It’s not because it’s called a “guardian” that it’s all about soaking up dmg.

Mortifer.2946:

Chronomancer was never supposed to be tank anyway. That class sounds like pure ranged dps/support.

I guess that’s why they gave it a shield huh? An offhand to go with their many one handed range options.

Yea, Arenanet should give elemetalists shield too, then they would be tanks too, right? Or maybe they can give it to thieves! Amazing! So many tanks in rags and pyjamas!!!

….The problem about support guardian is that other professions do it better than us.

Aeolus.3615:

@Nethod.7068: gw2 pve is faceroll, and only damage output is needed, faster u kill the target lesser problem ur party will have, game isnt about every class has the same chance to win depending on player skill, but rather play what Anet makes strong and be clever.

Do as i do, move along sir, move along.

Bravo. You see a problem and you are willing to get used to live it it. Good for you.

Obtena.7952:

This game does not force you out of elite content. That’s a sensational statement. If you want to be SELECTIVE in the roles you take in a raid with the profession you want, then its YOUR responsibility to find the other 9 people that DON’T want to be selective with the roles they take in raids.

If that’s not plain enough English for you, here is the rule you should be abiding by.

If YOU want to choose your role and profession in a raid, then it is YOU that must make and organize your own raids.

The insane thing here is that you should already know this by now because of the meta/PUG/dungeon debacles we used to have for 2 years prior. It’s the SAME debate and the result is STILL the same: Make your own teams.

Yeah, wish me good luck with that. It’s not the same to form 5-man party for semi-casual content and 10-man party for HC content when LFG doesn’t even work for 10 people and commanderless squads are annoyance – i’m not a comm so I can’t really be a leader

Obtena.7952:

Nethod.7068:

Obtena.7952:

The reluctance to accept change and adapt is strong with these ones. Funny that these people even subject themselves to MMO gaming in the first place.

I love my guardian, 5 thousand hours and I can’t play him in this raid.

Yeah, I read that. It doesn’t change the fact you don’t understand you are playing an MMO; MMO’s change all the time and how players interact with them must changes as well if they want to go along for the ride … so if that’s not something you’re willing to accept, why do you play them? If you don’t want to adapt, you shouldn’t be subjecting yourself to these kinds of game.

I played priest in WoW for several years. I played dominator in Lineage 2 for several years. Neither of these games ever forced me out of elite content. Actually, in wow, every class was viable in raid and it wad almost purely about the personal skill of the player. Healer could be priest, shaman, paladin, druid. Tank could be warrior, paladin and partly druid. DPS could be anything.

Why do i have to change class (not to play my main and most favourite character) in anet’s raids just because they don’t know how to design content/classes? I say, it is their fault. Yes, as a player i should be able to adapt – by changing gear, traits, and skills. It is completely unacceptable to be forced to play some chronomancer just to be allowed to be in raid and to tank. Chronomancer was never supposed to be tank anyway. That class sounds like pure ranged dps/support. However, anet fails to design their professions in the light of a bigger picture. Currently it just looks like they can just delete 4 professions from the game and they would not mind it at all.

It says obtain each Pylon attunement once. Does it mean the three pylons at VG? If yes, why is my progress 0/3 even though I definitely had all three colours on me?

Hi,
today I logged in and I can’t whisp anybody. No error message pops up. It just doesn’t react when i click on somebody’s name and click whisper option. If I manually write /whisper <name> <text> – it doesn’t work either. The only way it works is when somebody whispers me first.

I am on a full account and I didn’t get any chat ban.

It is more probable you will now have to change your other pet names (as you put this fact into ArenaNet’s attention) rather than being allowed to use the name Kralkatorrik.

I agree with the OP.

2K++ hours on my guardian out of 2400. Playing Guild Wars 2 is playing as a guardian for me. ArenaNet should respect that and they should never create situations when I am forced not to be myself – a guardian.

I think 50€ is exactly what this expansion is worth of. I was always counting 4 maps + living world 3 = 50€. But I too feel cheated by how ArenaNet design their raids which exclude many professions, and by legendary armor and backpack – backpack should had been in game from the start and at least one full piece of legendary armor too (1 piece per each wing or 2 pieces as I heard the full raid is on 3 parts). It feels extremely badly designed and those people probably play WoW too much.

Nethod.7068:

Be discriminated by class and gear for this poorly designed raid
….or do better things with my game time? hmmm choices.
Anet doesn’t know gw2 anymore. Dungeons were never like that, neither were world bosses.

Anet needs to remember GW2 has been more about employing mechanics. Hitting switches, carrying bombs, doing a combination of acts to perform a thing.

Not having the right crew to fill a meta should not even be a thing.
That is the biggest mistake and resembles WoW ideas behind raiding.

Exactly this @ArenaNet – this guy got it right!

Spirit weapons shouldn’t disappear. They should be destroyed by enemy attacks and then put on cooldown which can stay the same. Bow should pulse condition removal every 5 seconds and the command heal should be much stronger. We should get new healing skill that will heal us just a tiny bit but heals our summoned spirit weapons a lot. Mistfire Wolf should get bonuses from traits that affect spirit weapons – it is obvious he goes with the theme of spirit weapon guardian but I know they would never do it…. Traits on spirit weapons should add strong burning damage on sword, stability and slow on hammer, protection on shield and regeneration on bow (I don’t mean constant uptime of these boons/burning…burning can be every 5th hit on sword and boons can be on skill activation)

This way spirit weapons guardian could actually be viable in raids and pve content in general. I’m not a PvPer so IDK….figure out the balance between game modes yourself.

Please, can we get profession roles balance in raids too? Thanks in advance!

What about the players who started the same time as you, didn’t miss out AP from releases and only ignored monthlies because they were too much time consuming, and dailies which are just simply annoying? This way veteran player can catch up with these dedicated veteran players like you.

I like the cap.

It is very fair. Everybody can earn the same amount of AP. If you capped your daily limit then congratz!!!!! Now you can ignore them and focus on different things!

I killed this boss exactly once. Why? Waiting for an hour or clicking “join in” for 30 minutes is too annoying.

If it doesn’t give extra duration it’s a bug. I didn’t check it for myself though.