Guild Wars 2

CETheLucid.3964:

Morwath.9817:

CETheLucid.3964:

Morwath.9817:

CETheLucid.3964:

Post for posterity though, just in case someone somewhere might take your bigoted opinion for things.

There’s always another perspective.

LoL, said the guy considering Spirits as viable team support…

QQ

It’s not QQ. You’re just completly clueless about what you’re posting and your viable Spirits are proof of this, since there is no single reason to bring Spirit Ranger with current state of Spirits into competitive PvP…

Serious question between you QQ session maybe, might I ask you what you’re talking about?

Are you gathering all that from my tongue in cheek response to that first point of yours?

You know because if you really wanted to take something worthless to make an imaginary point to discredit me on, you could have picked where I said pets or how I mentioned healing spring twice.

Sorry I made a joke above your paygrade there, tiger. My bad. Want some cream for that?

You’ve mentioned Healing Spring three times, my dear clueless boy…

Exile.8160:

Its not broken at all. (sarcasm Just in case) right?

Burn heretic, burn.
Unocleanse?

(no I don’t think burning values are fine, but they already said they know that burning value is way too high)

CETheLucid.3964:

Morwath.9817:

CETheLucid.3964:

Post for posterity though, just in case someone somewhere might take your bigoted opinion for things.

There’s always another perspective.

LoL, said the guy considering Spirits as viable team support…

QQ

It’s not QQ. You’re just completly clueless about what you’re posting and your viable Spirits are proof of this, since there is no single reason to bring Spirit Ranger with current state of Spirits into competitive PvP…

CETheLucid.3964:

Post for posterity though, just in case someone somewhere might take your bigoted opinion for things.

There’s always another perspective.

LoL, said the guy considering Spirits as viable team support…

Malchior.5732:

-Thief has to Stealth, close the gap, and get behind the opponent.

Steal -> Backstab?

Malchior.5732:

-Mesmer has to set-up clones, daze/stun, use Mirror Blade/iZerker, and Shatter.

Malchior.5732:

-Elementalist has to land Phoenix, switch to Air frequently while using #2, etc.

Can I just throw my precast Rock Barrier and switch into Air?

Malchior.5732:

-LB Ranger has to press 2 from 1500 range.

Which is easiest to dodge/evade/block/interrupt among those since has long cast and it’s the most telegraphed among mentioned by you? Also does like 1/2 Backstab damage, 1/3 of Mesmer burst damage etc?

Malchior.5732:

Some classes need to spend valuable utilities, learn rotations and combos, and the Ranger just needs to press 2. Instead of giving Rangers such crazy easy burst, they could have fixed their other issues while still allowing a RF that does good damage.

Not sure if you’re really serious… having most of damage bound to single ability is actualy main Ranger issue…

Malchior.5732:

Morwath.9817:

Malchior.5732:

Morwath.9817:

Malchior.5732:

Aomine.5012:

DaShi.1368:

They’re next.

How can they be next when Thief/Mesmer/Guardian/Ele/War are doing double or triple the damage than ranger right now? (Thanks to the removal of numerous damage modifier, now RF only does like 5~8k maximum. Other classes are doing 18~25k burst right now)

5-8k for a single skill on a Zerker build seems more than fine to me.
It’s already an extremely simple burst with little set-up, do you also want it to deal Mesmer/Thief-like damage at 1500 range? They shouldn’t be buffing LB damage, but rather fix other Ranger issues.

Bro, they haven’t buffed Ranger LB damage, but reduced it, since there are missing +% damage modifers in Marksman line xD

Also it’s not about ‘1 skill’, but horribly long channel thats super easy to dodge/evade/block/reflect/interrupt, which lasts longer than entire ‘burst preparation’ made by Mesmers.

I didn’t say it was buffed. I’m saying it shouldn’t BE buffed.

Also, it is about 1 skill. RF is shot from 1500 range with barely any thought or set-up; at least the Mesmer needs more than 2 buttons to deal 10k+ damage.

Amount of buttons needed to be pressed to acomplish something has nothing with balance, it’s more about time:damage (dps) and possible burst. You can teach monkey to press keys in certain order…

The difficulty in performing a certain combo is definitely an important factor.
Look at Engi Grenade Barrage. If you needed to press 20 different skills in perfect order and perfect timing, then the 20k+ damage would be more in-line(it’d still be a lot, but then again, you can’t be just any random idiot to pull this off in a fight), rather than pressing a single button for the instant 20k+ damage.

Nope, you don’t balance esportz about ’difficulty’*.
Players at top skill level** should be even, it shouldn’t matter how ‘difficult’ is their weapon to achieve top dps/burst possible with it. Otherwise you won’t achieve balance.

1*Something can be ‘difficult’ for you, but not really for someone else. Everything actualy is about knowledge, because pressing buttons really isn’t hard.
2**Players don’t do too much mistakes (everyone does some!).

Tornado should inflict 10 second self fear.

Malchior.5732:

Morwath.9817:

Malchior.5732:

Aomine.5012:

DaShi.1368:

They’re next.

How can they be next when Thief/Mesmer/Guardian/Ele/War are doing double or triple the damage than ranger right now? (Thanks to the removal of numerous damage modifier, now RF only does like 5~8k maximum. Other classes are doing 18~25k burst right now)

5-8k for a single skill on a Zerker build seems more than fine to me.
It’s already an extremely simple burst with little set-up, do you also want it to deal Mesmer/Thief-like damage at 1500 range? They shouldn’t be buffing LB damage, but rather fix other Ranger issues.

Bro, they haven’t buffed Ranger LB damage, but reduced it, since there are missing +% damage modifers in Marksman line xD

Also it’s not about ‘1 skill’, but horribly long channel thats super easy to dodge/evade/block/reflect/interrupt, which lasts longer than entire ‘burst preparation’ made by Mesmers.

I didn’t say it was buffed. I’m saying it shouldn’t BE buffed.

Also, it is about 1 skill. RF is shot from 1500 range with barely any thought or set-up; at least the Mesmer needs more than 2 buttons to deal 10k+ damage.

Amount of buttons needed to be pressed to acomplish something has nothing with balance, it’s more about time:damage (dps) and possible burst. You can teach monkey to press keys in certain order…

Lordrosicky.5813:

Necro is the worst its ever been. Easily the worst class now. Its so bad lolz. And this balance is now locked in until a second expansion. Necro meta inc in 2018

I agree.
Necro got buffed, thats true, problem is:
Everyone (except Ranger) got buffed even more…

Better nerf Irelia.

Malchior.5732:

Aomine.5012:

DaShi.1368:

They’re next.

How can they be next when Thief/Mesmer/Guardian/Ele/War are doing double or triple the damage than ranger right now? (Thanks to the removal of numerous damage modifier, now RF only does like 5~8k maximum. Other classes are doing 18~25k burst right now)

5-8k for a single skill on a Zerker build seems more than fine to me.
It’s already an extremely simple burst with little set-up, do you also want it to deal Mesmer/Thief-like damage at 1500 range? They shouldn’t be buffing LB damage, but rather fix other Ranger issues.

Bro, they haven’t buffed Ranger LB damage, but reduced it, since there are missing +% damage modifers in Marksman line xD

Also it’s not about ‘1 skill’, but horribly long channel thats super easy to dodge/evade/block/reflect/interrupt, which lasts longer than entire ‘burst preparation’ made by Mesmers.

My thoughts:
1. TTK for 1v1 should be around ~infinite*.
2. TTK for 1v2 should be role dependant. Too many thing that can have influence here (e.g. Moa)…

*If players are equally skilled they should be able to be engaged until one of them doesn’t get +1 by team mate or other doesn’t do crucial mistake.

jcbroe.4329:

Sol.4310:

No Ranger’s ESL again, why because we have no real roll.

Other classes do each roll better. When you design team comp for TPvP you design it around rolls.

So you question the builds as whole and what team support they bring how effective they are in 1v1 2v2 team fights how mobile how good is there escape how good is there burst.

When you add up the options where does the Ranger really fit in I’m having hard time finding a roll for the class.

Didn’t the caster for NA say something about Eura having played on the team in the game they didn’t show. From my understanding it was a PUG and they didn’t win, but still, it would have been nice to at least see the match.

Not that it changes your point at all.

P.S: why are we skipping viewing matches in such a small “esports” community anyhow? I mean, Capcom streams for like the whole 14 hour event and shows every match as far as I know, how come we are skipping showing games in a 4 team bracket lol. I’d understand a little more if there was double the amount of teams with double elimination rules, but as it stands right now, skipping stream matches might be “efficient” for the tournament, but is lazy and hurts the viewing community as a whole who are there to see team comps and strats and their classes in action in a PvP tournament. “Tune in for the things we aren’t showing you” seems to directly contradict why people even watch in the first place.

Sorry, had to vent.

Eura is like Nos. No matter if Ranger/Necro is meta, they play their class…

MattyP.6954:

Morwath.9817:

MattyP.6954:

How to beat Slick Shoes: Quick Reflexes + LB4/Entangle.

You still have other people fucusing you bashing.

MattyP.6954:

Ranger is not a burst class; it is a sustained DPS class. Of course Thief beats Ranger in the burst game, but if Thief burst fails, they’re screwed. If we can avoid damage (which the Survival line, as an example, gives us multiple ways of accomplishing), we can beat a lot of burst classes with attrition.

I was talking about group fights, organized teams etc, not 1v1.

MattyP.6954:

However, if you have to burst, might I recommend (while running towards your target) LB2, Quickening Zephyr (while LB2 is casting), LB4, GS3, GS2, Signet of Stone. On my build, that’s about 13k damage in a relatively short amount of time.

Kinda weird rotation, since random dodge on opening will screw you a bit. Usualy opening with LB4 is better idea, so you can land entire RF on target -> switch to GS -> Entangle -> Daze/Stun -> Maul -> Daze/Stun (quickdraw) -> Taunt -> another pet CC etc…
Blowing everything, going into meele just do be close to Steal+Backstab+AA damage wise is like a joke. Our entire chain will do less than what Mesmer can do in 2s. We can hope that Thief/Mesmer damage will be nerfed, however we will still require alot of tweaks for our supportive things like Traps/Spirits, since damage isn’t everything, you rarely pick a class to just do damage.

Zephyr isn’t a dodge, it’s Haste + Superspeed. A Rapid Fire with Haste is pretty hard to mitigate, esp. with Lead the Wind. It’s as close to true burst as Rangers get (like I said, Rangers are better suited for sustained pressure).

So the rotation would be Hasted Rapid Fire, KnockDown (though Taunt on Pet skill works for this too), Gap Close, Maul (with always crits with Sigil of Intelligence), then Signet of Stone to mitigate the damage you subject yourself to. I am usually cool to sit there until I secure the kill, then I can Quick Reflexes my way out to open the gap and clear CC and LB3 to escape.

I know what QZ does. It doesn’t stop enemy from dodging, blocking, evading, it even makes evading easier since you need only to dodge it once (instead of twice without QZ) ;-)

MattyP.6954:

How to beat Slick Shoes: Quick Reflexes + LB4/Entangle.

You still have other people fucusing you bashing.

MattyP.6954:

Ranger is not a burst class; it is a sustained DPS class. Of course Thief beats Ranger in the burst game, but if Thief burst fails, they’re screwed. If we can avoid damage (which the Survival line, as an example, gives us multiple ways of accomplishing), we can beat a lot of burst classes with attrition.

I was talking about group fights, organized teams etc, not 1v1.

MattyP.6954:

However, if you have to burst, might I recommend (while running towards your target) LB2, Quickening Zephyr (while LB2 is casting), LB4, GS3, GS2, Signet of Stone. On my build, that’s about 13k damage in a relatively short amount of time.

Kinda weird rotation, since random dodge on opening will screw you a bit. Usualy opening with LB4 is better idea, so you can land entire RF on target → switch to GS → Entangle → Daze/Stun → Maul → Daze/Stun (quickdraw) → Taunt → another pet CC etc…
Blowing everything, going into meele just do be close to Steal+Backstab+AA damage wise is like a joke. Our entire chain will do less than what Mesmer can do in 2s. We can hope that Thief/Mesmer damage will be nerfed, however we will still require alot of tweaks for our supportive things like Traps/Spirits, since damage isn’t everything, you rarely pick a class to just do damage.

Padapwn.5924

I’m asking about ‘support’ and you write about ‘insane burst’ when this ‘insane burst’:
-> deals less damage than Backstab, which can be just follow-up attack to Steal (since Steal gives Stealth if Thief has Shadow Arts).
-> is like 1/3 of Shatter bomb damage, which takes less time than Rapid Fire…

You believe that Ranger does well when pressured in TFs? What does mean pressured in TF means for you? Since for me it’s CC+damage, from more than one person.
-> All you can do is launch your Singet, switch to GS -> Block (quickdraw), try to leap away and Block… however since Ranger is lacking proper source of stability you will die due to slickshoes anyway.

Question about mobility was about completly different thing than positioning is. Mobility allows you to engage/disengage to fast ‘+1’ other nodes.

Ranger has low burst compared to other classes now and Rapid Fire is the most telegraphed ability ever and probably the easiest one to dodge/evade/block.

TLDR – There is no reason to pick Ranger over Ele/Engi/Warrior/Guardian/Mesmer/Thief into premade team in competitive PvP.

Jace al Thor.6745:

Morwath.9817:

@OP
We will stop, once Mesmer will be balanced.

Except people aren’t calling for balance. They’re calling for nerfs. The two aren’t interchangeable.

You achieve balance in two ways:
→ You buff underpowred stuff.
→ You nerf overpowered stuff.

So yes, asking for nerfs for overpowered stuff (overbuffed in this case) is asking for balance.

BlackTruth.6813:

Mrbig.8019:

EremiteAngel.9765:

I dueled a slightly more skilled mesmer than me 8 times on my necro.
it ended 4 wins each.

A DRAW.

I think it is pretty even at the moment. and he was even slightly more skilled than I am. I won the first 4, but he adjusted quickly to my build and playstyle and won the next 4 thanks to his superior skills and adaptability.

so really, mesmers are not as terrible as you guys make them out to be.
all their interrupts/stuns? just counter with stability/stun breaks.

A traited necro which I am, has a 10sec shroud stunbreak with 1 3sec stability after, and I run 2 stun break utilities.

Really, if mesmers are so much pain, adapt and change your build/playstyle.

So pls stop with the nerf them threads.

Thank you.

Foot in the grave is terrible for power nec

It’s not. If you were using the meta power necro with the plague form right now, you would LOVE the sustain and you won’t miss the damage loss. You just never tried it tbh.

It’s. I would rather have Stone Heart (you can’t be crit) in Death Shroud, but guess what, we can dream.

Rym.1469:

I really enjoyed playing Beastmastery after the patch.

From me, couple things:

1. Fortifying Bond should’ve been baseline or as one of Beastmastery minors. It’s incredibly important for any build with Pet as Damage role in mind. To achieve really good BM build, we need 4 traitlines together.

2. I haven’t tested if all the bugs with “Sic’ Em” were adressed in the patch, yet to see it for myself, but in case they weren’t, that needs fixing. Shout itself could use some love, like small CDR.

3. “Protect Me!” should keep it’s cooldown, apply Protection and Ranger should just gain bonus health equivalent of Pet’s max health for the period of Shout, similar to how Plague adds health.

4. “Guard!” and “Search and Rescue!” need to be changed:

1) Shout similar to this one – “Enraged Lunge”: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Enraged_Lunge_.

Shout. Immobilize the foe (1s) and apply Might (5s). Your pet’s next successful strike removes 1 condition and does +25% damage for each of your recharging shouts.

2) Shout similar to this one – “I Will Avenge You!”:
http://tinyurl.com/pyudhgo – in memory of W/R

“Shout. Apply Quickness (3s), Protection (3s) to your allies and Slow (2s) to foes for each downed ally within the range. Ressurect your Pet. If your Pet was ressurected, this Shout recharges 50% faster.”

5. Currently, Pets have problems mostly with professions with good access to Teleports. Maybe add a Leap to pets when foe is further than 600 range on activating Shout?

Very good ideas.
+ [over] 9000

There is nothing that Ranger does better than any other class… just ask yourself:

→ Does Ranger bring any good support into Team Fights? Boons? Cleanses? Anything?
→ Does Ranger perform ‘well’ when he is under fire in Team Fights?
→ Is Ranger better or equal pick to Cele in terms of 1v1?
→ Is Ranger as mobile as Thieves and/or Mesmers?
→ Is Ranger damage on pair with other ‘+1’ (Roamers)?

There is only one answer to those questions : NO.
Ranger is at horrible spot right now.

@OP
We will stop, once Mesmer will be balanced.

Gizmorage.6412:

i’m liking the idea, but not with the current way rankings are calculated. A MMR profession ranking could be interesting.

Exacly what I was thinking while making this suggestion, since we already got overall MMR and profession MMR.

Toxsa.2701:

Morwath.9817:

/me Defends his Spirit Zerker Ranger.

Lol, zerk ranger pales in comparison compare to what Thief, Warrior, Engi, and Mesmer can do post patch. Their selling point relies on that new pet f2 taunt mechanic.

6~8k damage within 2.5 secs? So out-dated damage!
Try Engi 25k damage in 0.5 second!
Try Mesmer 18k damage in 1.5 second!
Try Thief 18k damage in 1.5 second!

Ranger is probably the only class damage remains the same or abit lower post patch, just that utility-wize they become much better compare to before.

It was irony my dear, irony. Just to remind that not so long time ago people were complaining about ‘how skilless’ are LB Rangers with their 6-8 Rapid Fire and how some people defend their ‘skilled burst’ ;-)

And about Rangers utility… it’s lower than before patch since Spirits got overnerfed while they weren’t OP or something (barely played in Cele meta).

/me Defends his Spirit Zerker Ranger.

Once we get Leaderboards working again (and more competitive I hope!), could we also have separate ratings for each class? Please?

blitzkrieg.2451:

Condi builds work in low to mid tier, but really are ineffective in top tier due to the burst setups good team compositions are able to do with coordination. Although with the death of shout warriors and staff eles not being around (might change) then you might see more condi builds due to lack of AOE cleanse. Not sure though. Just seems like cele / zerker builds do alot better in top tier.

I doubt it, Shoutbows will be prolly just replaced by ShoutGuards. While Staff Eles were never popular compared to Celestial D/D or D/F Eles who got as much AoE cleanse.

Saiyan.1704:

Morwath.9817:

Saiyan.1704:

I suppose it’s because I can instant stun break myself and pop invulnerability vs bursts. I was curious if any other classes have similar counters to what they’ve been experiencing in PvP. Is Guardian more balanced in this area? I assumed Warriors/Eles/Mesmers could either go invulnerable or stealth, respectively.

Warrior – Endure Pain has 1 min CD.
Ele – Invul on 50s CD (~35 traited?) on Focus (earth), Invul like utis are rather meh.
Mesmer – Distortion (50s?), stealth doesn’t prevent incoming damage.

Probably the best defense against instabursts is Vampire rune…

Oh, thanks for that. I knew they had some form of invulnerability skills (thought ele had 2) to counter said bursts but I guess it isn’t as good as the guard. That said, I feel the sustains are still there if people spec for it. Guardian’s Absolute Resolution or even Shout cleansing builds can help sustain a team greatly. But I’ve yet to see a synchronized cleansing team in action… so i’m quite curious if bursts are there in higher competitive play or if it’s just a solo/lower tier PvP issue.

To elaborate, there has always been two metas in the game. Competitive play and solo pvp. People say 1 thing is op in spvp but in tpvp, it’s manageable.

oRNG won today GO4ESL with:
Warrior GS Zerker, Bunker Guard, Bunker Ele, Mesmer, Thief

beating in final TCG with had following setup:
2 Bunker Ele, Soldier Engi, Mesmer, Thief

As I’ve predicted in different thread, meta will be slowly going into Heavy Bunkers + Mesmer & Thief, because heavy bunking is the best way to face Mesmer & Thief duo bursting everything.

Back to ‘invuls’ Ele got also Arcane Shield and Mist Form, however as mentioned before, they are meh and barely played on something else than Fresh Air.

If we keep Amulets as 100% of stats I would suggest to make separate Amulets stats for each class, since same amulets have different value for different classes, because:
-> Different base armor;
-> Different base HP;
-> Different mobility;
-> Access to stability, stealth, ports, invuls or lack of those;
-> Different healing values;
-> etc…

Edit:
Also having separate Amulets for each class would allow to have additional <class only> effects on Amulets like e.g. 25% Lifeforce at beginning of the match or after respawn and such silly things to balance certain strategies/stat setups.

You should check Ranger forums, there were serval threads about how useless Spirits are and how they could be fixed.

jportell.2197:

….. LOLOLOLOL. Comes from whining about mesmer being OP to whining about necro which still has the ability to completely turn a team figh.

Just lol man.

…so stronk we seen 0 Necros today in ESL GO4 today compared to ekhm how many Mesmers?

Oh wait, Helseth played 1 game as Necro and he was perma downstate.

Necro is at same spot as Ranger…

I agree,
premade que = competition
competition = better rewards
better rewards = competition

Vegito.3048:

As a vet player with over 3k hours, pvp is the kitten right now. It’s the most fun I’ve had since the cele bs started.

Don’t worry, soon it will evolve to something even more boring like 3 Full Bunker + 2 Mesmer or Thief + Mesmer in each game since that will be the easiest way to survive this sick damage and just outrotate and outlast enemies ;-)

Exciton.8942:

Morwath.9817:

Exciton.8942:

Morwath.9817:

Exciton.8942:

Morwath.9817:

Rogue Potato.4723:

Wetpaw.3487:

Hard to compare a Ranger to a Mesmer, they’re in the same mmo is about it.

Made me laugh xD

The only thing Rangers have going for them atm is that, if you like the profession, and as long as you don’t get too badly killed, it’s fun to play. I don’t understand why anet don’t just straight up remove us Rangers from the game. We add nothing to it xD

Shatter spike dmg is like 3 Rapid Fires exploding without channel at once >_>’

Light armor golem dies to 1shatter combo + 1izerker.
Light armor golem dies to 1raid fire + 1 pet hit.
Seems about right.
Also remember, the shatter spike combo comes from close range while rapid fire is from 1500. Shatter spike combo takes about 2 seconds to complete, also close to rapid fire channel time.

I am not saying mesmer is not strong atm. But the burst damage is just on-par.

Mesmers were hitting me for more than 20k with 3,5k Armor.
If you think RF would take 1/3 of that, you’re close to wrong.

Then it’s not from ONE shatter combo. You must have been hit by power block+full shatter bombo+izerker+maybe prestige or iwarlock.

I agree the lock down chain from stealth is too strong. It just makes too easy to land a super long damage combo chain. But you definitely understand it wrong if you think you die to one single shatter combo spike.

Plz go test our yourself.

We just see ‘shatter combo’ as something completly different.
Since pressing F1 isn’t any combo for me.

Okay now I have to say complete bullkitten.
Record a video and show me how you press F1 and get 20k damage in 1-2 seconds.
Before then, our conversation simply can’t continue and I will regard you as one of those clueless cry baby.

Do you even can read or you get carried by emotions?

I said that:
→ Mesmers can hit for >20k on high Armor and Toughness targets
→ I don’t consider pressing F1 as any ‘combo’

So, where I said that F1 can deal >20k dmg?

Exciton.8942:

Morwath.9817:

Exciton.8942:

Morwath.9817:

Rogue Potato.4723:

Wetpaw.3487:

Hard to compare a Ranger to a Mesmer, they’re in the same mmo is about it.

Made me laugh xD

The only thing Rangers have going for them atm is that, if you like the profession, and as long as you don’t get too badly killed, it’s fun to play. I don’t understand why anet don’t just straight up remove us Rangers from the game. We add nothing to it xD

Shatter spike dmg is like 3 Rapid Fires exploding without channel at once >_>’

Light armor golem dies to 1shatter combo + 1izerker.
Light armor golem dies to 1raid fire + 1 pet hit.
Seems about right.
Also remember, the shatter spike combo comes from close range while rapid fire is from 1500. Shatter spike combo takes about 2 seconds to complete, also close to rapid fire channel time.

I am not saying mesmer is not strong atm. But the burst damage is just on-par.

Mesmers were hitting me for more than 20k with 3,5k Armor.
If you think RF would take 1/3 of that, you’re close to wrong.

Then it’s not from ONE shatter combo. You must have been hit by power block+full shatter bombo+izerker+maybe prestige or iwarlock.

I agree the lock down chain from stealth is too strong. It just makes too easy to land a super long damage combo chain. But you definitely understand it wrong if you think you die to one single shatter combo spike.

Plz go test our yourself.

We just see ‘shatter combo’ as something completly different.
Since pressing F1 isn’t any combo for me.

Exciton.8942:

Morwath.9817:

Rogue Potato.4723:

Wetpaw.3487:

Hard to compare a Ranger to a Mesmer, they’re in the same mmo is about it.

Made me laugh xD

The only thing Rangers have going for them atm is that, if you like the profession, and as long as you don’t get too badly killed, it’s fun to play. I don’t understand why anet don’t just straight up remove us Rangers from the game. We add nothing to it xD

Shatter spike dmg is like 3 Rapid Fires exploding without channel at once >_>’

Light armor golem dies to 1shatter combo + 1izerker.
Light armor golem dies to 1raid fire + 1 pet hit.
Seems about right.
Also remember, the shatter spike combo comes from close range while rapid fire is from 1500. Shatter spike combo takes about 2 seconds to complete, also close to rapid fire channel time.

I am not saying mesmer is not strong atm. But the burst damage is just on-par.

Mesmers were hitting me for more than 20k with 3,5k Armor.
If you think RF would take 1/3 of that, you’re close to wrong.

Rogue Potato.4723:

Wetpaw.3487:

Hard to compare a Ranger to a Mesmer, they’re in the same mmo is about it.

Made me laugh xD

The only thing Rangers have going for them atm is that, if you like the profession, and as long as you don’t get too badly killed, it’s fun to play. I don’t understand why anet don’t just straight up remove us Rangers from the game. We add nothing to it xD

Shatter spike dmg is like 3 Rapid Fires exploding without channel at once >_>’

Teutos.8620:

Nightshade.5924:

Games like this need to be designed and based around the common person

I’m a bit confused here. Can you please give some real game examples a not talk about cars. From my perspective you are saying: “I can’t dodge the opponents abilities, so there should not be abilities I have to dodge.”

Rather : you should be able to dodge burst as often as burst user has it avalible. Each single time, impossible now.

Saiyan.1704:

I suppose it’s because I can instant stun break myself and pop invulnerability vs bursts. I was curious if any other classes have similar counters to what they’ve been experiencing in PvP. Is Guardian more balanced in this area? I assumed Warriors/Eles/Mesmers could either go invulnerable or stealth, respectively.

Warrior – Endure Pain has 1 min CD.
Ele – Invul on 50s CD (~35 traited?) on Focus (earth), Invul like utis are rather meh.
Mesmer – Distortion (50s?), stealth doesn’t prevent incoming damage.

Probably the best defense against instabursts is Vampire rune…

Your example is exacly how GW1 handled balance between PvP/E.

Some skills were split between PvP and PvE before last patch and I think some still are.
Split wasn’t problem, but the fact that skills with +/-% damage multipers in PvP/PvE wasn’t written in skill description.

Enjoy while it lasts. If you really think Mesmers are balanced, you will cry soon when they will be balanced once again. Even Helseth and Phanta agreed they are over the top right now.

lordhelmos.7623:

This topic has been brought up before.

I was watching some old streams of the PvP World Tournaments. As an experiment I brought my fiance in (who is an avid gamer who plays Smite and Couterstrike religiously) to spectate the game.

She has never watched a Gw2 game before and her synopsis was complete confusion. She complained about the particle effects obscuring all of the animations. Majority of people were using Asura characters so her comment was it looked like a “Chibi Smurf War.”

At one point, a Shoutbow warrior landed a final thrust and dropped a guy. She was like WTF just happened? The animation for the burst was so obscure she couldn’t figure out what was going on and why the guy died.

After about 10 minutes she got bored and wandered off to do something else. I wonder, how many other people watch tournaments and feel this way? How many are met with confusion and view the game as unappealing from a spectator standpoint because they can’t figure out what’s going on?

She complained to me that all she saw was “A kaleidoscope of disco lights spewing from every player and a ton of boring numbers popping up.” She couldn’t telegraph big hits or even figure out what people were doing. She seemed surprised when people died and kept asking me “How did that guy go down?”

Just something to take into account of how the game might look to a first timer from a spectator perspective. She never really got excited. It made me realize that the way the game is presented to outsiders and it’s not good.

Esports require GW1 like casting bars.
This way even player with little to no knowledge about certain class would know what has happened… on top of that we need in-game spectate mode (like the GW1…) where you can watch recorded matches of top teams.

SlayerSixx.5763:

If premades aren’t fair in sPvP, then I’m afraid to ask you for your opinion on guilds in WvW and those speed clear pvelords.

Also, good luck consistently finding matches without a mesmer or three.

I guess not queing currently is the best option for me, until some stuff will be settled, no point in getting annoyed over and over due to #yolo15kgrenades, #otherbugs, #instagibshattersfromstealth, #premadeseverywhere.

#Silverwastes you have my #shovel… -.-’

@Nyx (no quote, because of wall of txt)

I don’t understand. You want compete with Thieves in being… Thieves.
I don’t understand why you want to nerf team support (CC/Interrupts), but not DMG.

Mesmers in orginal GW were kings of disruption. They could shutdown someone completly without killing him rendering him useless for certain amount of time. Imho thats proper direction for Mesmers for PvP and probably one of reasons why Mesmer will get Chronomancer soon. I believe reducing Mesmer DPS/Burst in PvP is way to go, while buffing his team support and disruptive abilities so he could have his own role in teams and purpose, not just be ‘another’ Thief.

Mogar.9216
Main diffrences are:
→ Mesmer has better CC/Team support.
→ Mesmer doesn’t need to be engaged into close combat.
= Mesmer is currently Godlike compared to pre-patch Thief.

I could recommend Cele-Ele with Stone Heart, but it a bit ‘boring’ to play since it’s Cele.
Stone Heart makes you pretty tanky in Earth since they can’t crit you, which means all those Air/Fire sigils won’t proc.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-o3c;2B2-V0y4wMkY0;9;412G;0258036146;4Ss0;3H7W3H7W30p

jportell.2197:

Mesmer burst has never nor will ever be “on demand”.

How so?

jportell.2197:

Mesmer condi clear is still worse than its main competitor (thieves ),

Do you even know how Mantra of Recovery works combined with Mender’s Purity and Hermonious Mantras? Thats 10k healing (with Zerker/Marauder) and 6 cleansed condis every 10 seconds, split in pieces and on instant cast if prepared before combat (7,5k then). What is more, if prepared before combat and eaten during it, MoN is instantly free to cast, because coldown is when -cast- not -consumed-.

jportell.2197:

Our CC is not the “best”. We are the most rewarded for interrupts which requires good timing.

KB, Daze, Stun and Moa? Who can compete with this?

jportell.2197:

If it’s a mental anguish mesmer they have to be able to really land mindwrack when the target isnt doing anything. Which happens how often in this spam fest?

CCed targets doesn’t spam.

jportell.2197:

Now there is the argument of the mesmer clones actually making it to the target to shatter.

CCed targets can’t dodge. Also, Ilussionary Persona was granted for Mesmers for free.

jportell.2197:

Mesmer still cant successfully contest a point against a guard, ele, warrior, or necro.

Nor can Thief.

jportell.2197:

So really the only thing you people have to whine about now is that mesmer can FINALLY compete/outclass a thief when it comes to +1ing fights.

‘+1’ by Thief was considered ‘op’ and necessary to compete.
Outclassing Thief in it is clearly reason to whine.

[quote=5221839;jportell.2197:I see no problem here.[/quote]

I see plenty of problems here.
While I could stand -premades vs PuGs- issue for long, I can’t stand it together with Godlike Mesmers.

Klonko.8341:

Yeah mesmer alwasy been strong but the main fact was their utterly crap match up vs thief that prevented them to be in the pvp meta. Now they just destroy everything… (outdps even the ranger on range dmg… what anet doesnt want, they stated it somewhere)

Mesmers were part of the meta. Well, on EU.

SlayerSixx.5763:

I can understand full premades, but how are two (or even three man’s, depending on comp) that difficult to deal with?

It has nothing with difficulty, the fact that Anet decided I’ve play with premades, doesn’t mean I will. Got tired with it already.

You may consider it as a form of protest.
I will also leave any game with overbuffed broken Mesmer.

It’s so fun that I’ve left like 20 matches in a row.

baylock.1703:

hmm mesmers out of control I could beat Mesmer in 1 vs 1 with power necro medi guard and thief still just fine if he did not take pu i was dueling good friend and he has mained Mesmer since start is good wvw and pvp player its just l2p stop chaceing clones and get urself ranged wepon you will not likely catch Mesmer with melee wepon unless ur thief

Thing is: Mesmers don’t duel you usualy in sPvP…