Well, they should decide if they want Mesmer to be:
→ Guy with the best CC in game.
→ Guy with good survi, stealth and ports.
→ Guy with highest burst on demand.
All of those shouldn’t happen at once within one build.
Elementalists: Diamond skin – Earth – Cele build variant.
Is this Anet’s solution to balancing out conditions in the game? The Ele can literally 1v3 or 1v4 condition classes… should such a thing even exist? Currently, no condi teams will be viable with these classes on a team. Much like a Thief vs Mesmer/Necro/Ranger pre-patch… only 10x more OP.
Thoughts?
Let me take this straight :a celestial amulet ele user with 1500 toughness , takes a trait that become useless after taking 10% dmg, can now 1vs4 ????
1500 toughness against 4 of you? and you can’t keep the ele below 90% HP?
Even worst! the cele ele got only like 560 healing power, in real world it’s impossible for the ele to keep up 100% HP at all time. And against 4 enemies?…not even a god could keep 100% HP, basically what you’ve just stated is high caliber BS
I think it’s BS too. Exactly why i’m asking whether or not Diamond Skin’s performance vs condi builds, at this caliber, is intended.
I purposely changed your wording’s intentions because it’s Not impossible to do this in solo pvp against full condition players, with God knows what condi build types they were running. The scenario is equivalent to Condi Guard (pre-patch) able to 1v3 glassy builds. Yes, of course it’s possible and it shouldn’t be done efficiently nor even once a week on a given solo pvp game. The DS vs Condi scenario happens at every engagement… it’s not a L2P issue for condition classes who fight DS ele. If it is then please tell me how condi can beat said class.
Diamond Skin Ele builds directly hard counters condition builds. Are we suppose to ignore them like Turret Engineers before they got nerfed?
Can you explain to me how 4 condi players cannot do roughly 1.7K non condition damage to an ele? I’m really curious.
Probably a mix of dodge rolls, soothing mists, CC, regen, healing signet and… Ah, having a brain? You realize you can’t fear, chill, cripple, immobilize or poison them either, right? And if they run can trips they have access to stability. Essentially, you can’t even make them sit still. If you’re having a hard time understanding how this could be possible, you should really explore the class a bit more. I think you know that it’s ridiculous, just stop defending stupid crap and let it get changed to something useful but not broken and move on.
…but if 4 Condi Necros launch Life Blast or just auto attack with Staff at same time you will lose 10% of hp… I doubt you will dodge every second…
The main builds for ranger were Condi Survival, Power Ranger, Trap Ranger and Spirit Ranger. How many of these are you still using?
Sadly, Spirit Ranger is dead.
Issues with Spirit Ranger:
→ Spirits are static and thats make them easy to AoE.
→ Their HP Pool is low, so same issue as ^.
→ They don’t trigger upon dying, so you have instant activate them before they die due to ^.
→ If you activate them, they die and they can’t apply boons to allies.
→ Their AoE Boon applied is meh, not punishing enough enemy for ignoring Spirits.
Summarizing: Everything is wrong about Spirits right now.
Your idea of bunker is no concern of mine because in the end of the day the truth remains the same. People were running double shoutbow/engi and winning game by rotating from point A to point B, a concept many realize, what I’ve described it’s not the absolute as many obviously realize..including those grasping at straws
Well, it really matters what definition of bunker is, because calling a bit tanky roamer (cele Engi) a bunker is nothing but missunderstanding at your part or just lack of knowledge about profesion.
With all my hate to Engis, I would say you’re a bit biased.
If you consider mesmer as the only class who can stop " the tanky meta" you have already confirmed how over the top mesmer is. Same with other classes you just compare two extremes. Atm you nearly see no bunker because you can’t bunker dis kitten.
Mesmer is at the moment totally broken and there is not much to discuss about this.
Fact is..one extreme(bunker) was not toned down for months, for how long did you have to face double shoutbow/engi nonsense before this patch? Tell me how fun it was to fight people that laughed at you..not even bothering to dodge anything as they could heal up to 100% easily
Wait, what…?
-> Bunker Engi? Do you consider Cele Engi as bunker? O_o
-> Sbow had like 6k burst healing (if he launched all 3 shouts at once), which made him pretty easy to burst (since healing signet doesn’t help vs burst).
Edit: Don’t forget that 3 Shouts Sbow was lacking self source of Stability and was pretty easy to focus due to that.
Just reduce the damage on burning. This will have the added benefit of having less qq of the form: ‘OMG why did I die from my own burning. It should be the necro who dies from MY PASSIVE burn proc.’
There’s always going to be people crying, but there is difference between high risk builds and just too much damage around. And actually no, not all specs are on par with other classes. I honestly don’t understand how people are fine with leaving broken things in game. Everyone also gained a lot of passives. I dunno, but I just can’t see anything skilled about mesmer bursting someone from stealth.
It’s because they got illusion of being good due to broken stuff.
Was this an intended change, because I don’t really like. The other changes they made to spirits are great, but I don’t understand why this needed to happen.
I don’t like other changes:
-> They die after activation.
→ Since they are Immobile they are even easier to kill.
-> Passive pulse from Trait is too short (1,25s every 3s).
-> They don’t activate anymore when killed i think (?).
though this patch will give us more build diversity and counter play?
i lost all hope.
seems an mmo without trinity will always be about dps .
it reminds me more of a shooting game than a game with melee combat and magic spells.
maybe this formula will work on their e-sports but i dont see this game being fun or healthy for a casual gamer.
im taking a huge break from the game to seek something more relative to mmorpg.
you do realize that this pvp is more like trinity then ever before. If people are bunkers they are bunkers who might be able to support or do condi damage. If there zerk they better be good at it.
Lastly im using hambow with gs atm and im crushing people. Ive lost like 3 matches out of 15 but ok believe its not you who is missing it.
You can’t use hambow [hammer-bow] with GS, sorry. You just can’t.
Unless GS =/= Greatsword.
…are now useless. Not only because they are static, we could live with static Spirits, but because boons they provide last 1,25 sek [every 3 sek]…
Since they are stationary, have casting time and can be killed, shouldn’t their AoE boons given be strong enough to force enemy to focus them if Ranger decide to sacrifice his [or her] utility slots [and Traits] to use Spirits [read: provide team support]?
Can I disagree? Elixir Cele Engineer won’t die 1v1 to any class with it’s healing, and it maintains the same strong damage. I don’t think zerker is the only option, just not all the builds have been explored yet.
This and it’s clear there are A LOT of bad players.
Last meta, an engineer could ride his Gear Shield on recharge, even if he wasn’t in any danger.
Now, you get punished for stupid stunts like that.
Yet, you STILL have engineers trying to ride Gear Shield on recharge. People are just so conditioned to make mistakes in the last meta, now the good players can now GREATLY punish those bad mistakes.
I see a lot of QQ about balance, then again, I see a Guardian run into a mid point and tried to 1v3. He died instantly, didn’t get the chance to run. Before you could do something stupid like that and get away. Now, you die for dumb mistakes.
You call it stupid, but I guess you haven’t played much before with Bunker Guard. In previous meta you could just run into 3 average people and keep them engaged for period of time long enough so your team could cap rest of the map easily then disengage or get rainforced… not really stupid.
But yeah… now it’s a bit stupid when everyone deals so much damage…
I thought bunker guard wasn’t even used much in the previous meta?
I love the new changes so far, very refreshing.
Bunker Guard wasn’t used in tournaments much, thats true.
However some people still played it in Rankeds, e.g. I had win ratio with mine ~60%.
Can I disagree? Elixir Cele Engineer won’t die 1v1 to any class with it’s healing, and it maintains the same strong damage. I don’t think zerker is the only option, just not all the builds have been explored yet.
This and it’s clear there are A LOT of bad players.
Last meta, an engineer could ride his Gear Shield on recharge, even if he wasn’t in any danger.
Now, you get punished for stupid stunts like that.
Yet, you STILL have engineers trying to ride Gear Shield on recharge. People are just so conditioned to make mistakes in the last meta, now the good players can now GREATLY punish those bad mistakes.
I see a lot of QQ about balance, then again, I see a Guardian run into a mid point and tried to 1v3. He died instantly, didn’t get the chance to run. Before you could do something stupid like that and get away. Now, you die for dumb mistakes.
You call it stupid, but I guess you haven’t played much before with Bunker Guard. In previous meta you could just run into 3 average people and keep them engaged for period of time long enough so your team could cap rest of the map easily then disengage or get rainforced… not really stupid.
But yeah… now it’s a bit stupid when everyone deals so much damage…
Almost everyone is running glass builds.
I’m not.
I’m winning all my matches.
The only reason why you are killing people with zerker, is because they are running zerker as well. XD
I’ve played non-zerker, non-marauder builds and I’ve lost all (!) my matches today since I was no threat to anyone, while everyone was threat for me and I still had feeling being made of paper while focused by more than one zerker.
Another thing, launching Transfusion for ~6,5k (healing, not damage) and such silly things wasn’t any help for my team mates, since they were bursted like 100% → 0%. We could notice that supporting ~zerkers is pointless, they don’t live long enough.
While my feelings were completly different yday when I was playing DPS oriented builds…
You didn’t?
Apparently everyone else on the forum did
You should start paying attention my friend
Perhaps try playing a conquest match or two
The forums are in the exact same state they are after every patch (only a little more widespread because everyone is kittening about everyone else) – if that’s your metric then every single patch has been a massive failure.
If you think you’ve got the changes perfectly pegged after 18 hours, you’re being silly.
Just to note, that’s not to say you aren’t potentially correct, but you’re already 100% convinced that you’re correct, and that’s just not possible.
Boyer seems to be right you know. People in mists saying same stuff.
Sigh.
What bearing do a bunch of opinions with the same amount of experience (roughly 18 hours) have on my argument that people don’t have enough experience yet to properly judge the new content?
It doesn’t matter HOW many people believe in creationist theory, they’re wrong when they say the earth is 5000 years old. The number of people parroting that opinion doesn’t help “prove it”.
Again, I’d like to clarify I’m not saying he’s definitely wrong. I’m not saying that Raw DPS is in a good place right now – How could I? I don’t have any more experience than anyone else with the patch. All I’m saying is let’s keep the definitive statements of whats wrong and what needs to be fixed off the boards for at least a few days until a meta starts to develop.
Thats your opinion, nothing more.
“The meta needs time to settle” is not an opinion, it’s been true of every patch thus far.
It’s an opinion.
Since you can’t prove (only time could) its not already more or less settled due to imbalance (too high ‘power’ based damage).
You didn’t?
Apparently everyone else on the forum did
You should start paying attention my friend
Perhaps try playing a conquest match or two
The forums are in the exact same state they are after every patch (only a little more widespread because everyone is kittening about everyone else) – if that’s your metric then every single patch has been a massive failure.
If you think you’ve got the changes perfectly pegged after 18 hours, you’re being silly.
Just to note, that’s not to say you aren’t potentially correct, but you’re already 100% convinced that you’re correct, and that’s just not possible.
Boyer seems to be right you know. People in mists saying same stuff.
Sigh.
What bearing do a bunch of opinions with the same amount of experience (roughly 18 hours) have on my argument that people don’t have enough experience yet to properly judge the new content?
It doesn’t matter HOW many people believe in creationist theory, they’re wrong when they say the earth is 5000 years old. The number of people parroting that opinion doesn’t help “prove it”.
Again, I’d like to clarify I’m not saying he’s definitely wrong. I’m not saying that Raw DPS is in a good place right now – How could I? I don’t have any more experience than anyone else with the patch. All I’m saying is let’s keep the definitive statements of whats wrong and what needs to be fixed off the boards for at least a few days until a meta starts to develop.
I do find damage to be a little high, but on the over hand I didn’t really enjoy the bunkering from before.
If TTK is to low as it seems, I think ANet should lower damage, but if they do I’d like them to lower sustain/healing too. It wasn’t tankiness that caused the “boring” bunker fights but their ability to sustain and outheal a lot of damage.
With good balance person should be able to sustain himself (with a little help from your team) until you do mistake/get outplayed or get outnumbered (someone else on your team has died etc). Example: Gw1.
Dear Devs,
I would suggest giving players opportunity to test incoming balance changes on test servers before stuff goes live and so you could gather feedback there, so we wouldn’t feel like lab rats.
I would rather see damage in PvP reduced overall by ~30%. Anyway, if they won’t reduce damage somehow close to prepatch, for sure I won’t buy HoT.
Why? So you would rather keep automatic air/fire procs and remove damage from actual skills?
Yes, because there are way much more procs (which come from traits) in this game and those are much bigger pain than air/fire. However I haven’t meant that that air/fire are good/healthy for the game.
Did hell just freeze over? Someone actually asked for a nerf to necromancer?
Necromancers should stop crying about being so bad and unviable, but rather go figure out a build that would work. Having passive stuff like this is not good for the game, that’s just a pure fact.
Oh, get gud? Just get gud?
Why don’t we strap on our get gud helmet, and squeeze down into a get gud cannon and fire off into get gud land, where get guds grow on guddies!
Funny. Last few days I see nothing but necros crying everywhere, then I turn on stream night before patch and I see Nos wrecking 5g over and over. Necros cannot be that bad, huh.
Wrecking Engis never was any achievement for Necro, if your build could apply enough condis.
Celestial lost a bit tankiness and got more damage. I wouldn’t call that a buff.
A celestial spec now has a bigger % advantage over all other amulets than before. This is maths not your opinion.
Math has nothing with purpose of celestials being hybirds of bunkers and roamers. While they are better at one of those roles they fill, they are worse at the other.
Whats your point? They give a bigger % stat advantage after patch than pre patch. Most people thought it would be nerfed by 10% relative to other amulets. It wasn’t. It now provides a bigger stat advantage. Opinions on the wider balance of celestial amulet is irrelevent to this discussion
The % stat advantage of Celestial is actualy lower:
Celestial lost a bit tankiness and got more damage. I wouldn’t call that a buff.
A celestial spec now has a bigger % advantage over all other amulets than before. This is maths not your opinion.
Math has nothing with purpose of celestials being hybirds of bunkers and roamers. While they are better at one of those roles they fill, they are worse at the other.
Wait whats been the issue with queuing from main world?
Loading time > popup time = reject
would not be an issue if the loaded you into the pvp map not HotM then PvP map. never understood the need to load both.
Its not about loading HotM, but about fact that if you change maps in open world when you get popup during loading, then loading time is longer than popup leading to reject.
