Guild Wars 2

Arken.3725:

Thing is ResJudicator while I agree bunker classes SHOULD have excellent survivability, having that AND mobility/cc as well as team-support is still too much. A slight shave to such high up time on boons brings a bit into place.

Yeah or you could bring a way to remove the boons….. wouldn’t that be kittening crazy.

Tadsoul.6951:

NeXeD.3042:

Just curious but are all of you necros losing more than 50% of your 1v1, 2v2s, and 3v3s your coming across?

If you aren’t specced as a bunker you shouldn’t be able to “survive” outnumbered fights and almost no necro specs as a bunker.

I win most of my 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3
no1 should be able to survive outnumber just get away however given player skill difference that isn’t always true.

NeXeD.3042:

What class can use a zerk amulet and survive outnumbered fights for longer than a necro? How can one be Glassier than a necro ever be?

The two classes that come to mind are mesmer and theif, but I’m not sure running away counts as lasting.

guardian, warrior, mesmer, theif in outnumbered fights even while not running away

Ok so you win most of your fights, but you agree with everyone else that we are missing healing. K.

Guard is glassier cmon man. Theives and mesmers can’t sit on a point and in the current meta will die to aoe unless they run away and we aren’t counting that right?

Warrior…. ok here’s the thing I really don’t have much experience playing one. I’ve dabbled a bit but I hated the way I felt on a warrior. BUT I know my experiences against them and I know it’s not very common to see a zerk warrior but as soon as that zerk warriors stances are done he’s ded. And I doubt zerk warriors would be running shouts.

So we lack the ability to be aggressive because we lack the ability to be defensive gotcha….. no.

Lol I have also been swapping from necro to ele and vice versa depending on comp…. this explains a lot actually.

I think we have different ideas of what being aggressive is.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Don’t you find it strange that the profession based on Aggression magic is punished the hardest for being aggressive?

I would disagree. If the necro isn’t aggressive he’s dead….. if you try to play a support or tanky necro you are useless… did you mean attrition?

I didn’t mean my opponents or the other classes that would do the testing had to be low skilled.

Wop, fitg, spectral armor pop ds. Last gasp pop ds. Wurm. Pop ds hit 3.

Don’t run into outnumbered fights.

I’m perfectly willing to test all this. I’ll even be the necro so we can use my skill level as a base and my skill level is low so it should be a good indicator if I can survive. But I really think we should look at the differences in 1vX 2vX and 3vX.

I’m glad you said equal circumstances =)

I would argue dps guard, full zerk warrior are also glassier. Ranger it would depend on the spec really but I still think they are glassier. Youve already said ele and engi. This leaves mesmer and theif. But they just run away and reset so I don’t count that.

Necro is the best at surviving on a zerker build. I would bet I can make a zerk temp that puts no traits into our two defensive trait lines and is tankier than the other classes. The only problem is the scaling issue with our defensive utilities vs everyone else’s and stab.

spoj.9672:

Dont you find it a little ironic that the class that is supposed to be the attrition and stand there and take it class cannot be a bunker?

Yup lol

flow.6043:

NeXeD.3042:

Yeah that’s right you all better not answer my question, you know you won’t like what I’m gonna say when I get your answers.

I honestly have no idea what point you are trying to make. Just assume we all said both more and less than 50%. What now?

Regarding your statement about bunkers, other classes can survive outnumbered fights longer while being glassier than necros could ever be.

I’m not going to tell anyone why I want that question answered until it’s been answered at least a few times.

What class can use a zerk amulet and survive outnumbered fights for longer than a necro? How can one be Glassier than a necro ever be?

The two classes that come to mind are mesmer and theif, but I’m not sure running away counts as lasting.

Yeah that’s right you all better not answer my question, you know you won’t like what I’m gonna say when I get your answers.

Yeah spoj I know. Technically I do have a bunkerish build that can work but not alot of people use it.

So are nightmare runes a problem for anything except necromancers? If not I don’t think there is a case for a nerf. Similiar to the celestial amulet isn’t op on every class argument. =)

Everyone realizes the matchmaking will get better in time right? Once a larger sample size is there and some tweak have been been made it will get better =)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNArYWjc0UebfNG3wfbighSyW4Di+ACgzlykIKA-TJxHwAA3fwYZAxPBAAnCAA

This is basically noscocs build but I use generosity sigils instead of geomancy and frailty. Seems to work well for me, decent balance of defense and offense for a condi necro build.

I’ve been on plenty of pugs that have beaten decent premades, had a pug the other day and we took out Teef Teef Teef Teefs team pretty handedly. I really don’t think the matchmaking is as bad as everyone says.

Lol celestial engi is fine, but celestial necromancer is a bunker hahahahaha, also do you consider stow weapon to be a bug?

Just curious but are all of you necros losing more than 50% of your 1v1, 2v2s, and 3v3s your coming across?

If you aren’t specced as a bunker you shouldn’t be able to “survive” outnumbered fights and almost no necro specs as a bunker.

There’s not enough players to get q times fast enough to get games that even.

Never said i wouldn’t enjoy it.

Laserbolt.6731:

NeXeD.3042:

Every team I have ever played against in ranked pvp has been premade all rank 80 most of them in sparkly glorious hero armor, and all of them in the top 5 on the leaderboards, this was even when we had soloq.

Clearly you must be awesome if you won games.

My girlfriend (lefty) and my side B (righty) tell me the same thing everynight

Laserbolt.6731:

Why would the buff team always win? The buff is just to make for an EVEN match by giving just enough buff to level the playing field.

I can see how the gear-based MMO mentality is behind some people’s thinking. That thinking is: if you have earned the power and a big advantage, you get to use it to dominate.

That’s WoW, etc.

Now your equating player skill and experience with high level gear in WOW. I cant tell if your trolling now

Laserbolt.6731:

NeXeD.3042:

We don’t have brackets…..

A team made up of players that are on average worse than their opponents shouldn’t be given an advantage… they should get better or get rekt. That’s what competition is.

No, I’d say that completely mismatched teams are the opposite of competition. LOL.

THIS. Will stop being as much of a problem when a larger sample size for our MMR is done. So yeah the matchmaking is going to suck for a little while for some cough people. It doesn’t mean yo..i mean the bad players should get an advantage.

We don’t have brackets…..

A team made up of players that are on average worse than their opponents shouldn’t be given an advantage… they should get better or get rekt. That’s what competition is.

Yeah I am except those aren’t “contact” sports. Ever seen Tom Brady just be like kitten it you guys can have the ball this time.

Nice try richard.

Every team I have ever played against in ranked pvp has been premade all rank 80 most of them in sparkly glorious hero armor, and all of them in the top 5 on the leaderboards, this was even when we had soloq.

I’m ok with all sources of healing that come from traits I just don’t want allied burst healing. Still think if they give us all that healing, necros will just become the new engi and ele, except with the ability to see saw healthbars.

But it’s not like any of this talking matters. It’s not going to happen. So my presence here is useless. Enjoy never getting healing in ds.

Laserbolt.6731:

Archaon.9524:

Justin ODell.9517:

That would suck for the more rated team, since you’re lower than they are they wouldn’t be getting points. All lose and no win doesn’t seem very fun, so I doubt they’d enjoy it. Could be wrong though.

Losers are NOT meant to get points omg…just look at old freaking gw1, in GvG losers were just losing…never getting points for that, in ha was the same: high ranked teams facerolling and bad players just sitting in a corner with nothing until they managed to get better and somehow winning…this is how a competitive game should work…rewards for losing is only gonan promote farming that is the worst thing that can possibly happen in a pvp wannabe esports

stop

rewarding

losers

just…stop.

That only makes sense if every match has a 50/50 win chance for each team.

Which means a handicap system to level the playing field. Such as faster score ticks for the weaker team.

Why should a weaker team have an advantage?

Pretty sure it’s “helpful” when we aren’t in ds.

Once the ladder has been “officialized” there may be a few weeks of uneven games but I think this system will eventually provide more equal games at acceptable q rates even for high level players. Trust me those guys don’t particularly enjoy stomping newbs.

Jelzouki.4128:

NeXeD.3042:

Roe.3679:

NeXeD.3042:

It does have something to do with the strength of necros as it also has to do with balance regardless if anyone of you admit it. Just because it “makes sense” doesn’t mean it should be implemented as I’m sure it would cause a whole lot of balance issues.

I seriously don’t think that it would. Regen doesn’t offer anything in terms of burst healing, and it’s mostly not effective unless you’re electing for it.

We all know necros have issues wih sustain, and if you go full out vampire necro right now it’s totally subpar. You should be able to spec a tanky necro and if you could heal through DS, you could with current traits.

I don’t mean just the regen boon, I feel like the title of this topic is misleading since most of the time when people are talking about healing in DS they are not just talking about the regen boon and lets be honest that’s not what any of you are talking about either.

And let’s also not pretend we didn’t get healing in DS. We do. It’s not great we know but it’s a start.

In all my posts i havent said they shouldn’t give us ANY healing in DS I just think alot of people are getting out of hand with it. Now if they keep nerfing DS they will eventually have to buff something but I’d rather be given access to anti CC rather than buffing healing.

I don’t know why, maybe something just clicked with me recently but I’m not having any sustain issues. And I’ve been doing pretty decently even queueing up solo which apparently has been an issue for people. Hell yesterday we had a 4v5 game that we actually won, was a first for me.

How the heck is the title misleading? It says exactly what I argued.

I understand that you’re not against letting necromancers get healing while in deathshroud; and that’s great, but that does not defeat the fact that we get PUNISHED for having a boon that can be given to us unwillingly, and receive no benefit from it.

I just want to toss this in here:

Noscoc of The Abjured (top tier NA pvp team, WTS Champions) said that fixing this regen issue is a good start to finally giving necros the long deserved buff they’ve needed.

AND I am POSITIVE, if you take this issue to more top tier pvp players they will undoubtedly agree.

Regardless, this is an issue that must be addressed, and Evan Lesh (PvP Gameplay Progammer) told me he would pass it on to the designers.

http://i.imgur.com/0EdzIgR.jpg

If your simply arguing that regen needs to be changed to go through deathshroud as it is “sometimes” a bad thing (which is really only against another necro) then the title is not misleading. But that is not what most of the people are asking for.

Also do you honestly think anet doesn’t have someone that noticed regen is useless while Necros are in deathshroud? He was trying to get rid of you.

spoj.9672:

NeXeD.3042:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

NeXeD.3042:

It does have something to do with the strength of necros as it also has to do with balance regardless if anyone of you admit it. Just because it “makes sense” doesn’t mean it should be implemented as I’m sure it would cause a whole lot of balance issues.

As I explained, in the post right before yours, the strength of necros is irrelevant in this case. Design flaws are no indication at all on power level. Such flaws can leave the profession at literally any point along the power scale.

Yes, changing Regeneration to not be purely negative in Death Shroud would change the balance. But the actual strength of the Necromancer has nothing to do with the fact that the mechanics are flawed.

Well they can’t just do random kitten to this game because players decided it makes sense… Balance is the most important factor.

Balance is not the most important factor. Read my post again. :P

You are right but I would argue at least for pvps sake balanced=fun imba=qq

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

NeXeD.3042:

It does have something to do with the strength of necros as it also has to do with balance regardless if anyone of you admit it. Just because it “makes sense” doesn’t mean it should be implemented as I’m sure it would cause a whole lot of balance issues.

As I explained, in the post right before yours, the strength of necros is irrelevant in this case. Design flaws are no indication at all on power level. Such flaws can leave the profession at literally any point along the power scale.

Yes, changing Regeneration to not be purely negative in Death Shroud would change the balance. But the actual strength of the Necromancer has nothing to do with the fact that the mechanics are flawed.

Well they can’t just do random kitten to this game because players decided it makes sense… Balance is the most important factor.

flow.6043:

spoj.9672:

Personally I think you are just being selfish and stubborn if you always use balance as an excuse to argue against changes. You can always balance around changes if necessary after all.

Hear, hear.

NeXeD.3042:

And let’s also not pretend we didn’t get healing in DS. We do. It’s not great we know but it’s a start.

Unholy Sanctuary is not a start, it’s an insult.

NeXeD.3042:

In all my posts i havent said they shouldn’t give us ANY healing in DS I just think alot of people are getting out of hand with it.

It’s the opposite actually. As of now, necro healing is basically non existent. Allowing any source of healing (and I mean all of it) to go through DS is but a minor step towards bringing us to the level of all other classes.
Beyond that we should actually get additional healing sources and/or buffs to our current sources of healing.

NeXeD.3042:

And I’ve been doing pretty decently even queueing up solo which apparently has been an issue for people. Hell yesterday we had a 4v5 game that we actually won, was a first for me.

Yes, I’m sure you won a 4v5 because your necro sustain was so good… not! Your opponents sucked, that’s all.

Please don’t misunderstand what I said or attempt an attitude with me, I don’t do it to you.

I didn’t mean we won because of my poc terrormancers sustain is so good. It was just an awesome feeling and I felt like sharing. It was more of a self reflection maybe I got better I don’t know but I see a lot of negativity even though I really do feel like Necro has a spot in the current meta at least in pvp and wvw, I cant comment on pve.

I see this negative attitude with every class especially in pvp with the merging of teamq and soloq and it’s going to be like this for a bit until the old soloq heroes learn to rotate and play more team friendly builds.

But you being an experienced necro…. i just can’t see how you can argue we should have access to all healing while in DS…. I mean I main a necro it would only help…. and I’m still against most of it.

Now with that being said why don’t we turn this thread into something more constructive. As I’ve said before I’m not against giving necros SOME healing in deathshroud.

My solution would be to change unholy sanctuary into something that allows all healing in deathshroud if it was possible. I think that would be perfectly acceptable since taking that trait would nerf your damage.

I was never worried about a tanky necromancer that could be healed by his teammates. I was worried about a necro that was using zerk, carrion, rabid that was all of a sudden a CC spamming death machine who just needs an ele, guard, or engi with him to be pretty much unkillable.

Is it only ranked people are having problems with or unranked too? I’ve been doing unranked since everytime i try to q for ranked it takes 15 minutes for a game and the games have been pretty even. We even won a 4v5.

Roe.3679:

NeXeD.3042:

It does have something to do with the strength of necros as it also has to do with balance regardless if anyone of you admit it. Just because it “makes sense” doesn’t mean it should be implemented as I’m sure it would cause a whole lot of balance issues.

I seriously don’t think that it would. Regen doesn’t offer anything in terms of burst healing, and it’s mostly not effective unless you’re electing for it.

We all know necros have issues wih sustain, and if you go full out vampire necro right now it’s totally subpar. You should be able to spec a tanky necro and if you could heal through DS, you could with current traits.

I don’t mean just the regen boon, I feel like the title of this topic is misleading since most of the time when people are talking about healing in DS they are not just talking about the regen boon and lets be honest that’s not what any of you are talking about either.

And let’s also not pretend we didn’t get healing in DS. We do. It’s not great we know but it’s a start.

In all my posts i havent said they shouldn’t give us ANY healing in DS I just think alot of people are getting out of hand with it. Now if they keep nerfing DS they will eventually have to buff something but I’d rather be given access to anti CC rather than buffing healing.

I don’t know why, maybe something just clicked with me recently but I’m not having any sustain issues. And I’ve been doing pretty decently even queueing up solo which apparently has been an issue for people. Hell yesterday we had a 4v5 game that we actually won, was a first for me.

Woah woah let’s not bring Mitt into this k.

OP gets noob checked by mesmears because all he does is aoe button mash and can’t keep track of the real mesmer…. simple as that.

It does have something to do with the strength of necros as it also has to do with balance regardless if anyone of you admit it. Just because it “makes sense” doesn’t mean it should be implemented as I’m sure it would cause a whole lot of balance issues.

I’ve already given all the bars around the convention center here in the bean your picture. Only thing you are allowed to drink is smirnoff ice.

/15 characters rekt.

Holy kittening kitten. Nightshade you are wrong about mesmers. If you are serious about fixing your deficit add me in game I will show you how to kill a mesmer. Eventually you will get that amazing moment in pvp where you kill the mesmer even after he moas you.

Well kitten has fought in this tourneys…. I can’t recall ever seeing you in them…. I’d rather take the guy who has real experience word for it.

Lol your name gets kittened hahahaha

Erm, have you seen twitter?

Pretty sure what you are all talking about exists in every major sport. Just because you can’t take the trash talk or you deem yourself too “good” for it doesn’t make it any less entertaining…. I play this game for entertainment not to feel good about myself morally.

Chaith.8256:

SobeSoul.6910:

Troll all you like, but when the NA pvp scene is underwhelming compared to EU because all the BM and egoism that goes on here, it’s more sad than funny.

What does the trash talk have to do with the PvP scene? Make rivalries and the desire to win fiercer? o no souns bad.

Cmon we all know he just wanted to slip in the EU so much better and classier than NA.

Still salty about WTS?

But yeah the comments from helseth are so much classier than anyone NA has.

Dunno why anyone would take any of the e drama serious it’s for funsies.

I really haven’t done much ranked due to the crazy q times, but I’ve been doing unranked and I’m really not running into alot of the problems everyone I’d complaning about. I’ve really only had one game where it was just ridiculous and that was a courtyard map where the other team had 2 theives and they melted.

Maybe attempting to soloq on a build that you yourself say cannot carry bad players is your issue. Some builds will be more viable than others depending on the comp you play. Maybe it’s not anet or your teams fault? Maybe you could be a little bit more flexible? I usually check out my teams comp and change my build to what I think can help the team the most, I don’t expect a soloq team to have builds that work with whatever specific one I WANT to play. I play the one that works with them.

I agree I believe it is the world of twitch and mmorpgs that should be responsible for the shaping of our youths minds. Shame on noscoc for being such a bad example.

I can really only think of a few people who could even qualify to do this, I’m going to guess most of the more vocal people on this forum have infractions though.

If it worked through ds it might be viable. Currently it’s not, you sacrifice too much damage for pve or pvp. And if you end up fighting another sustain class they will win.

It really couldn’t be that hard to just have a little part of the mists with a few small arenas that require the two people to fight. Or even do what DCUO has and let us duel anywhere with a little duel tab.