Guild Wars 2

Turret engi doesn’t need nerfing….

Laserbolt.6731:

NeXeD.3042:

I’m a soloer and I haven’t been able to play a ton of games due to holidays but so far I’m 16-1…… I have run into premades as well.

And?

I’d be interested in your logic about win/loss as a valid skill indicator in the current matching situation.

Huh…. it’s not…. win loss doesn’t really effect matchmaking rather how you won or loss does because it effects your MMR. Matchmaking is all about mmr not w/l ratio.

Safari.3021:

I’m an average player, skillwise, at best, yet 2 hours ago I ended up on spiritwatch vs a team containing The Lord Helseth.

How does someone like me get put in the same grouping as the mesmer from TCG?

You aren’t in the same grouping…. he’s got more points you just have him friended

He’s got them, he started as power.

Well a condi or celestial engi wouldn’t necessarily be countered by a power necro depending on weapon sets and utilities. It’s not always class x counters class y it depends on builds. You see most people saying necro counters engi just because we see more condi necros and condi or celestial engis

Didn’t watch the video but if your using that might dodge food with the endurance and arent switching to koi cakes might wanna look at aristocracy runes for another set. Don’t dump the perplexity though. They are the best.

If you didn’t hAve some unfavorable matchups you wouldn’t have balance.

I don’t understand what you are asking….. “i was referring as profession as all possible builds” no idea what that means.

I’m a soloer and I haven’t been able to play a ton of games due to holidays but so far I’m 16-1…… I have run into premades as well.

I don’t think anyone is saying it isnt, the problem for mesmers is theives and unless youve got your own personal escort theif for the mesmer he’s dead.

DevilsGlare.7658:

Saiyan.1704:

DevilsGlare.7658:

Sagat.3285:

DevilsGlare.7658:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re all pointing fingers at the celestial amulet when it CAN’T be used for every class. Guardians/thiefs/mesmers/rangers Suck with celestial amulet while engis/eles/warriors excels with them.

Stop talking about the amulet. Talk about what these “op” classes have in common and why…

Just because something can’t be used for every class, doesn’t mean it isn’t too strong. That’s like saying… “Oh not every class can use Dhuumfire, therefore necros aren’t OP.” Same for Spirits, Hambow, Double Shatter, Double blasting Evasive Arcana, etc.

The amulet, combined with the runes and sigils is exactly what makes these professions OP in the current state of the meta. Both Engineer and Ele utilize these stats to the maximum potential, where as other class are falling short. If you want to run a hybrid/bruiser build, then good on you. But, a bruiser build shouldn’t reap the damage it does, as well as the sustain.

That was a poor response using class specific traits not open to all classes or specs… I see it two ways no one wants to play the counters because they are not conquest meta,are afraid of TDM,most of you play zerker but conquest forces you to tank AoE which both those specs has. See the issue there even I rarely lose when using a condi spec vs them because I refuse to focus on melee damage without being tanky and it is a usable weakness I rather have glass ranged like s/f ele or a good power ranger that won’t take the AoE. Sure I am not on point but why am I 1v1 him if I’m not going to cap it’s a team match not a forbidden duel.

Before celestial it’s you, your mentality and spec you are probably glass trying to stay on point vs a AoE semi-tank….dumb I wouldn’t be surprised if nothing change about them . Reintroduced the corruption necro and fix their team sustain as well as other boon hate specs. Uses your tools and brain no need to dumb down a mistake so many of you made.

Again poor response…..

TL;DR.

He said you listed class specific traits and that you had a very poor response and that I’m right in every way.
Yup that’s what he said yup.

Words from an ANET dev: “Celestial is too strong, and we will be looking at tweaking the current imbalances.”

You must be right in every way.

Not doubting you but where did that quote come from and when?

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

NeXeD.3042:

Really seems like a lot of people aren’t very familiar with either class or at least not as far as the boon hate goes…. you would think everyone would familiarize themselves with something that could counter engis and eles.

If mesmers weren’t hard countered by thieves and necros weren’t hard countered by the braindead cele builds you would be seeing a lot more of them. I also agree that both of their boon removals are not good enough. Boons should be something that should be used at the right time, not just spammed in a rotation to have it permanently.

A boon strip or corrupt power necro seems like a pretty good answer to dd ele. The biggest problems I’ve had with them is they just run away.

Phaeton.9582:

NeXeD.3042:

You are severely understimating me.

how much severely?

He didn’t think I understood how the only heal worth taking on my main class works…..

The answer to your question is either celestial rifle engi or d/D ele but you will always run into soft counters, hard counters, players and situations that you cannot win against. Part of the game is understanding what you can do against what builds and how to rotate accordingly.

I didn’t mean you specifically were crying, just that it would make sense that an engi would cry about one. I’ve met engineers that worked me over pretty good, you said it yourself you are not experienced my guess is they weren’t as good as you or they thought.

Oh woe is me…. woe is meeeee

No one else realizes giving the turret wheels would nerf the crap out of them……. the would clearly get minion pathing!

ButterOfDeath.2873:

NeXeD.3042:

Dodge transfers and interupt consume conditions and you win.

You really underestimate necros imo: dodging the staff transfer is hard (they could just staff #2,#3 and bait both your dodges as the animation is the same), they can fear you anytime and start chaining conditions, if you stun break they can do it again with either staff 5 (which they can bait, just like staff 4) or spectral wall.
Really, try to hold a point vs a capable terrormancer as an engineer…

I main a necro. I didn’t say it was easy…. I simply stated how to win. If you load me up with condis and I haven’t blown my transfers yet then you should know it’s going to come right after you load me. Load me up and try for some sort of hard CC before I can transfer or if you have dodges which since you pretty much have perma vigor swiftNess you should have plenty.

I understand there is alot to the fight but there is alot to any fight….. also learning what classes to avoid is part of the game….

With that said engi is in a pretty good place right now so it’s not surprising an Engi would be crying about a condi necro since it is the closest thing to a hard counter there is.

There are going to be counters and hard counters it’s how the meta evolves.

Also spectral wall isn’t that great if your falling for that kitten you got other problems.

Really seems like a lot of people aren’t very familiar with either class or at least not as far as the boon hate goes…. you would think everyone would familiarize themselves with something that could counter engis and eles.

Dodge transfers and interupt consume conditions and you win.

It’s a l2p issue some people do exactly what he is talking about on purpose. “Flashing” ds. It can be useful sometimes so I don’t want to see it out if the game.

This is a good idea as long as their ai is the same as necro minions ai am totally on board with this genius idea.

Now I won’t have to see everyone crying about turrets since they too have become geologists.

Ummm the build I mentioned should do really well against a medi guard. Blind doesn’t work too well against warhorn dagger you are htting too many times. WoP and staff 4 for condis and use swalk to juke him when you swap to ds to lifeblast him.

TheDevice.2751:

@sobe

I’m not sure 2 minute elites are 3rd health bars. Lich forms duration has been reduced by alot… enough so that during the skill a turret engi can block and dodge just about all the attempts at dps.

Also, our kit is not designed to evade attacks, such as prybar. The entire necromancer design (hilariously enough) is so that we take all the punishment and are supposed to withstand it.. which never happens. We don’t have vigor, we don’t have blocks, we dont have invuln.

In fact….. EVERYONE counts on the necro not having enough defensive abilities and thats why they are so easily focused.

Now on that tank issue. I don’t think many necros, condi especially, attempt whatsoever to engulf themselves in the middle of a teamfight. That’s not how most necros die… im sorry. They die (as above) due to compounded focus and pressure so that all they are doing is running for their lives.

Not any class in the entire game has a big red flag of death above their heads like the necro. You don’t even need a premade team for them to collectively, without any thought or communication, to focus the necromancer until hes dead.

Now the necro’s teammates (if the enemy has no necromancer) are like wild animals swinging at the nearest thing. No focus whatsoever.

In short, I don’t agree.

@NeXed

You’re saying the engi’s are not op they just require TWO people ONE of which are their supposed “hard counter” to be defeated. Yeah… that doesn’t sound op at all.

And I’d really love to see a power necro “drop” a turret engi no problem. I have yet to be privileged to witness this rare and marvelous spectacle. No problem you say. I’m at a loss for words now…

P.S. Just to note: I really wish I could turn back time to when the dhuumfire patch just got released and necromancers where op to the max, just so I could go on a “necro is op” forum and say “Sounds like a l2p issue… get good. Nothing wrong with necro you’re just bad.” Just to see what it feels like. lol

Well I have no problem with turret engis on a power necro. As condi I do what I said before. Knowing what builds you should avoid is part of pvp.

unlucky.9285:

thanks for the replies i will give the 26xx6 a go

I ended up switching to 4/4/0/0/6 zerk pack runes d/w air fire sigils staff energy generosity utils cc wop sa sw lich

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

try a 2 6 0 0 6 zerker pack necro d/d staff PoC and Spectral Attunement in pvp.

got me back to play it even though I hated the class and what has become of it!

I was using that for a while as well =) fun isn’kitten

You only have to grind if you want to be on the leaderboards…. if you call yourself casual then you probably shouldn’t worry about them.

It is possible you had your old mmr still? That’s why you had some unfair games.

I must be the luckiest person in gw2 ever this matchmaking has been ok even if I haven’t been able to play much. These are all soloq games as a power necro.

87% 21 NeXeD.3042 S P E E D Starr 16 1 94.12%

TheDevice.2751:

ArrDee.2573:

Don’t you mean

Step 1: Pick target!
Step 2: Explode target with condis and fear chains!
Step 3: Make Engis cry!
Step 4: Win game!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Thats a myth spread by engi’s to ensure their precious overpowered turret build never gets nerfed. (dw it never will. Devs love engineers)

If you’re getting rekt by a necro you’re a bad engi

if that’s the scenario its more like

Step 1: Pick a target
Step 2: Get cc’d
Step 3: Get cc’d
Step 4: Do more damage to engi than most classes… but still die.

If your a condi necro just don’t engage the turret engi, unless you’ve got a teammate coming to you quickly then you can just spam staff marks until your ally arrives.

If you are power and have enough ds you should be able to drop that engi no problem with d/w staff and ds.

I remember I used to have trouble with engis when using a power build but the one I’m currently using has no problem with them.

Turrets aren’t op. They can make a bad or ok player stronger and annoying but they are not op.

Ovid.7135:

NeXeD.3042:

Soooo… since I haven’t playet at the highest tier I’m am not allowed to say pvp should be balanced at the highest tier. I see so clearly now I am nonsense. Btw you know why you think all healing in ds should be ok? I have seen you play it’s because your rotations and positioning are bad.

Sure necros should be balanced with all tiers in mind, just you don’t know what it means to be balanced for high tier, that’s all.

Btw, sweet that you’ve seen me play babe, I appreciate my fans, even if they don’t understand what they’re watching, but all the more viewers the better.

I stick with my support that regeneration should apply to the original health pool even after a necro goes into death shroud, just to make the healing of necros more on a par to other professions. This is a very minor buff, necros are obviously successfully playable without it. Healing for necros has always been a difficulty, as, here Nexed you’ll like this one, at higher tiers the necro heal is frequently and easily continuously interrupted, in fact it’s the easiest heal in the game to interrupt. Even with fancy spectral walk recalls and wurm popping, an industrious thief or anyone clever should always prevent a necro from healing. Thus a bit more regen would put necro’s healing more on a par to other classes/

I do support, though with less certainty, that heals should be able to be applied while in ds; for premades, this makes no difference really because heals are co-ordinated, but for solo queues, this would prevent the necro from relying on his team-mates to watch when he is in ds or not.

You are severely understimating me. You really think I don’t know cc is the easiest heal to interupt? BTW it’s uninteruprable with wurm if you do it right. There are also other ways to get that heal off. But you must know that right?

I don’t watch your twitch I saw you in one tourney and you are ok but I wouldn’t call you high tier.

But just because someone isn’t high tier doesn’t mean they can’t say the game should be balanced at high tier. Not all tiers. If you balance for all tiers you end up with a useless class like the mesmer right now. Wrecks noobs and mid level is god awful in high tier unless a select few players are using it. Hell even then they might be better of switching.

What about just lowering the cooldown enough to make the active worth it, would also encourage less passive play.

I agree I think the easiest way is for vamp, make it work in ds and it would open up new builds for blood, some people would probably pair it up with death magic for us and be an incredible tank. Vamp would also still need a little boost in base effectiveness.

Ovid.7135:

I agree that regeneration should still apply to (ie. increase) your health pool after you have gone into death shroud, unless it is removed or corrupted; this should just be taken for granted, that boons should do their job for necromancers just as they do for other professions. Swiftness, stability etc. all still apply when in ds, it seems odd that necromancers shouldn’t naturally benefit from the regeneration boon as other classes do.

Similarly, I believe that heals given when the necromancer is in ds should still apply to, and increase, their health pool, not the ds. Co-ordinating heals is less of a problem for pre-mades, but obviously more difficult in solo queues; the necro has to rely on the other team-mates understanding the necromancer profession, which many do not, and it is arguably too much to demand that they all should.

Nexed talking about balancing for the highest tier, which to my knowledge he has had no experience of, is rather funny. He has disagreed with OP but has given no good reasons to do so. Giving this healing to necromancers is a fair buff, helping their survivability in team fights, and putting their healing more on a par to other professions.

This will just be a minor buff, in particular that regen will give more healing. Nexed’s worries about necromancers becoming over-powered are unsubstantiated and, in my opinion, nonsense.

Soooo… since I haven’t playet at the highest tier I’m am not allowed to say pvp should be balanced at the highest tier. I see so clearly now I am nonsense. Btw you know why you think all healing in ds should be ok? I have seen you play it’s because your rotations and positioning are bad.

Ryouzanpaku.1273:

TBH this is not what I wanted to hear
btw wouldn’t the celestial set be good for necro? seems to me it is a real waste not to boost condition damage on class with so many condition dmg possibilities….

Oh well in that case I hear running full settlers in pve groups is highly desired.

zerker meta is interesting and fun if you understand the game well, but celestial is easier to watch for casuals. probably one of the reasons the game was pushed this way.

Going full tank on a soldiers build is still more dps than a knights build on a necro.

Gem store, or go pve.

Amir.1570:

Jelzouki.4128:

Aaron.2413:

This is like me complaining I can’t utilize swiftness while using mortar….
Sorry you can’t gain health in your second health pool?? And necros aren’t t2… The only problem is no one plays them well (except nos)… Best team NA has a necro… And I think TCG is trying to use one

Wow 1 good necromancer out of them all, that’s pretty bold to say lol.

I actually proposed this to Noscoc and he told me it would be a good start to fixing the Necromancer class.

Well it is a second health pool indeed but it is a second health pool that needs to be built up. Just to compare with other mechanics, an invulnerability such as endure pain, mist form etc can absorb a substantial amount of damage, whereas necromancers dont usually see above 50% life force (being generous), unless you are running a power necromancer.

Regardless of balance, this is another one of the many flawed deathshroud mechanics. If you read the post it says that we are punished for having a boon that we may have not even applied to ourselves.

I don’t know if you understand but when we receive the regeneration boon, it does not apply the full benefit to us, but we still have the boon and we can still be punished for it.

EDIT: I’d just like to add some other flawed deathshroud mechanics in this reply:

• teammates cannot tell whether we are in deathshroud or not, when looking at the health bar on the top left
• we cannot see our timers on our skills when we go in deathshroud. This is a problem because we cannot accurately dictate when we should leave deathshroud; sometimes ultimately leading to death.

He seriously just compared DS to Endure Pain. You have got to be kidding me. An F1 for every 10 seconds that functions as another HP bar has an instant fear, a root, and grants stability CANNOT be compared to Endure Pain. The fact that Necro can blink and have stability every 10 seconds is A LOT more broken than anything Warrior has atm.

Learn to play already. If you aren’t making Necromancer work, you have no idea how easy chain fear is or how easy it is to bait out dodges as a Necro. You are clearly a casual who is trying to get things to change even though you’ve never gotten at the highest peak of the class yet.

Please don’t say necro stability or dark path is op lol of all things you could pick.

I’m against the healing in deathshroud with everything except traited abilities like vamp, contagion etc. But what you just said is crazy

I’m not underestimating but it’s is worse against condi and it’s damage is pathetic.

I am of the opinion 4/4/0/0/6 is the way to go.

Your barely tankier. If you want to recommend some player to use that amulet as necro that’s fine. But you would be playing a bad build, providing barely any offensive pressure. We can’t attrition fight like that well enough to be a wet noodle. Please don’t try to pull out some dps tests on whatever immobile target someone used. The difference between burst damage and sustained damage is ridiculous especially on a class that has to eat alot of attacks. I may have been generous with that 30% thing.

To your point about being tankier. Knights is barely tankier. It’s never going to be worth the tradeoff of that much burst damage.

Well then. I retract everything I have said. Since this appears to only be about the Regeneration boon. How do you make it so regen isn’t a weakness on necros when they are in deathshroud? Should we make it to no one can corrupt steal or remove boons on a necro in DS? Basically that fixes your issue and gives necros a form of immunity that it really doesn’t need. Do we restrict it to just the regen boon? Or do we make it so heals to real hp can go through deathshroud, or do we have healing effect deathshroud?

Also we should probably fix the other classes too, it’s incredibly unfair that the regen boon can be turned against you…. I mean regen is a boon right? So it should be a helpful thing not a chance for another player to take advantage.

Also since I agree it’s unfair that necromancer can see their weapons or utilities while in deathshroud I think engineers and eles should be able to see all their cooldowns on kits and attunement all the time.

Morwath.9817:

NeXeD.3042:

Jelzouki you made a mistake posting this here, everyone here is going to same the same things I did against the healing in ds.

Here is the original attempt… basically me saying it would be OP if we could be healed by allies in deathshroud and every other necro in existence saying I was wrong and it wouldn’t be OP.

BURST HEALING TERROR NECROS OR LICH NECROS WOULD BE OP.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/balance/Necromancers-Punished-For-Having-Regen/first

Also please stop spouting this nonsense that regen boon “doesn’t apply any benefit to us”….. yes it does. You get healed just like everyone else, just not when you are using your mini easily replenished healthbar that gives eXtra tougnesa damage skills etc when traited.

When you guys are playing with a team and you need a heal tell your teammates if you need a burst heal and coordinate it when you leave ds…. giving us healing in DS would lower our skillcap and makes us OP.

Ok, I’ll write elaborate via /team everytime I need fast heal from my team on ranked solo Q. Sometimes I think, some people forget that majority doesn’t run full time premade on TS…

Sometimes I think people forget you have to balance at the highest tier.

I like the new system, even if I want ever sniff the top part of the leaderboards. My games have been pretty balanced.

Jelzouki.4128:

NeXeD.3042:

Jelzouki you made a mistake posting this here, everyone here is going to same the same things I did against the healing in ds.

Here is the original attempt… basically me saying it would be OP if we could be healed by allies in deathshroud and every other necro in existence saying I was wrong and it wouldn’t be OP.

BURST HEALING TERROR NECROS OR LICH NECROS WOULD BE OP.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/balance/Necromancers-Punished-For-Having-Regen/first

Also please stop spouting this nonsense that regen boon “doesn’t apply any benefit to us”….. yes it does. You get healed just like everyone else, just not when you are using your mini easily replenished healthbar that gives eXtra tougnesa damage skills etc when traited.

Well a necromancer is constantly heading in & out of deathshroud, cutting its effectiveness in some percentage, while other professions can reap the benefits.

Key words: “when traited”

Most traits on the necromancer that give benefits while in deathshroud usually come with a price, but I am aware there are some good ones.

It’s kind of silly how you are so against this all the while Necromancers arguably have the worst healing in the game.

Actually I did not make a mistake posting this here. I submitted a ticket to Arena Net and they told me specifically to post this here.

EDIT: Necromancers have one of the highest skill caps in the game, if you think it would lower our skill cap, I think it would not do much damage to the game.

You misunderstand what I wrote about posting and about traiting… but I think it was on purpose.

Your mistake was posting this here will give even more counter arguments against your campaign for unkillable necros. Rather than me being the only one against it.

My point about traits? You have a mini easily replenishable second healthbar that can do multiple things with multiple trait combinations. Seems pretty versatile to me. Now on top of that you want the ability to see saw health bars indefinitely?

How exactly do you know your mmr went down a “ton” and how is that not a playerskill issue….. in multiple ways… maybe your mmr was inflated with the old system and the new one rectified it.

Jelzouki you made a mistake posting this here, everyone here is going to same the same things I did against the healing in ds.

Here is the original attempt… basically me saying it would be OP if we could be healed by allies in deathshroud and every other necro in existence saying I was wrong and it wouldn’t be OP.

BURST HEALING TERROR NECROS OR LICH NECROS WOULD BE OP.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/balance/Necromancers-Punished-For-Having-Regen/first

Also please stop spouting this nonsense that regen boon “doesn’t apply any benefit to us”….. yes it does. You get healed just like everyone else, just not when you are using your mini easily replenished healthbar that gives eXtra tougnesa damage skills etc when traited.

When you guys are playing with a team and you need a heal tell your teammates if you need a burst heal and coordinate it when you leave ds…. giving us healing in DS would lower our skillcap and makes us OP.

Dagger is still better in teamfights. No one ever autoattacks with an axe kitten that noise about vuln = might.

Stand The Wall.6987:

NeXeD.3042:

kitten the Knights amulet you lose damage and aren’t even really much tankier than a zerker amulet.

i just want to pop in and say, wat?

Wat?

I am correct here. We are talking amulets not gear. Zerker amulet has vitality. It is infinitely better than knights amulet. Why would anyone sacrifice like 30% of their damage to not even be tankier is crazy.

style.6173:

NeXeD.3042:

Nerf celestial and the classes that already can’t use it can’t even more.

Your post doesn’t make any sense. Are you saying that ANET should allow the OP specs (cele ele, cele engi, cele warrior) to continue since there are other specs that aren’t OP when using it? If you don’t realize that cele is over the top on ele, engi, and warrior, I don’t know what to say.

My post makes perfect sense. You have a few classes that make fantastic use of celestial amulet due mainly to class design. Then you have a few other classes that don’t do well with celestial amulet.

So nerf the amulet. Now the classes that could use it cannot. The ones that that already couldn’t use it before still cannot. Now we have another useless amulet woohoo….

Balance isn’t just about nerfing there is more to it.

I LOVE SNOWFLAKES

Your right passive plays suck so for every passive skill just make a way to activate it.

Minions aren’t op.

Pve pvp or wvw. Sounds like pve to me? Get right in there and use daggers. When you get in trouble just swap to ds and keep lifeblasting but you shouldn’t even need to just use utilities and press one. There is some dodging required. Also zerker do whatever you feel like with the traits as long as you put nothing into blood magic or death magic.