Guild Wars 2

ParaldaWind.4523:

The way the score works currently makes this game not competitive. If the devs keep treating WvW as a competitive gametype, they will unintentionally ruin it.

There are many good suggestions to make the score system not be purely a reflection of coverage. For instance, you could count player kills towards the score. You could change score values of keeps and towers depending on how many people there are on map. You could even daily “seasons” that are every 8 hours, representing NA primetime, EU primetime, and oceanic/SEA primetime, which would award “victory points” towards the end of the week.

However, as it stands currently, the scoring system is literally just a measure of coverage.

Agreed. Lots of options, but head in the sand seem to be the approach being taken.

DevonCarver.5370:

If you are saying you don’t ever even want the chance to try and show your skill against a higher ranked server, then I don’t know what to say.

Please get it through your kitten skull that WvW has nothing at all to do with skill and everything to do with coverage and population. Equating it to skill is insulting to everyone that still plays on underpopulated servers.

Shoe.5821:

Are you joking? 7 vs 9 is normally a slaughter. How can you expect 12 vs 6 not to be?

well there are some incentives working in the league system that wern’t there before

say the #1 and #2 servers are in a league with the #12 server. if #1 goes after #12 to get some PPT, #2 has every incentive to cap #1’s undefended territory and/or screw over #1s assault attempt on #12’s keep. #1 and #2 are much more likely to keep their attention on the threats to their league standing rather than they were before.

Do you even pay attention to what actually happens, because that little dream is not what happens and not what will happen. #12 is easy points, you take them at every opportunity, that is the reality.

Svarty.8019:

DevonCarver.5370:

Your reward will be based on the server you log into the first time once the season starts. You can transfer as much as you like, but you will still get the reward from that first server.

You seriously don’t see any problem with this?

Honestly what do you expect from people entirely out of touch with WvW? First we make a competition that is entirely decided by population and coverage, then we set it up so that you can transfer to your main opposition and undermine their entire effort without risking your own reward.

Brilliant! I think it should just be a finisher for reward, why would you reward this style of competition with anything of value?

DevonCarver.5370:

You mention in this post why nothing is changing here. We can’t merge servers based on what percentage of players on a server play WvW. We make determinations about servers based on their overall population. Your best bet is to use the influx of rewards from the season to convince people on your server to start paying attention to WvW. Or convince people to transfer to your server to boost your WvW ranks.

Influx of rewards… what a kitten joke.

It doesn’t matter anyways, the overall problem with WvW is that there is only so many off hour players, which means only a few servers can be competitive, which is why the vast majority of the player base find PPT to be an utter joke.

Unless they condense servers to so few that everyone has a chunk of the off hour population, mergers wont change anything.

felixdacat.3804:

Niim.9260:

Why do people in zerg guilds think they should get a free pass when they do not want to fight? Like your guild doesn’t run over every solo up-level they meet all night long.

Right, because I’m in a larger, organized guild I am never entitled to run by myself to do anything. Ever. This coming from a server that relies on massive numbers to do… anything and everything. Probably took 20 of you to come up with that response.

Besides the fact that you missed the point entirely, my guild roster has a total of 12 people. How about yours? You are in a zerg guild, commenting on the zerging of other servers… that’s funny.

felixdacat.3804:

To the DB I waved at near BPBL ruins, you’re cool. /wave

To the endless stream of Maggots that decided to stomp me (an uplevel Assaulter) near BPBL lake camp 5v1 or more even though I knelt, waved, sat, whatever… Go kitten yourselves. Just trying to get some map completion and have some fun before reset and you left a bad, bad taste in my mouth.

Why do people in zerg guilds think they should get a free pass when they do not want to fight? Like your guild doesn’t run over every solo up-level they meet all night long.

Aberrant.6749:

It was called a bug long long ago by the devs iirc (can’t be bothered to dig through all of the old dev’s posts).

I saw at least three dev posts correcting that dev post to point out the limitations imposed by weapon swap and that it was not a bug, just how it currently works.

urieldhynne.2743:

Everyone who defend this bug just got used to it. You should realize if this is a bug, someday will be fixed, learn to live without that free stats.

Your arguments is “i want more power for my hero”, just that.

The simple fact of EVERYONE MUST HAVE a alternate weapon set with these sigil to get maximum stats is just ridiculous. There is not options or variety on that, only do it or not for 250 more stats.

Anyone with half a clue and an understanding of the weapon swap system understands completely why the sigil stacks work they way they do. This is not a bug or an exploit and is entirely within reason as to why it works the way it does.

You are welcome to think it should work differently, you are welcome to ask for it to work differently, but stop calling it a bug and/or exploit

If having an alternate weapon set is an incredible hard target for a person to achieve, then frankly extra stats wont help them anyways.

urieldhynne.2743:

I see a lot of bug exploiters crying, amazing.

The full charge sigil do nothing? 250 power! what else you want? infinite stacks?

The problem is not weapon swap, the problem is unequip that weapon, retain the sigil effect you are NOT using, and GAIN another sigil effect in that place.

Used to balance your build? guess what, player who dont exploit that bug balance their build without that 250 free stats points.

Anyone can do this? Yes. Anyone can hack too, right? The sigil is bugged, some players exploit it. That is the point, is not how the sigil must work, or balanced for.

That sigil is not underpower, you can chose between less but secured damage (5% fixed), or more damage but with the risk you can lose it. Is fair. But who exploit that bug use “250 from stack + 5% fixed + another if offhand” to burst down enemies.

Hello Kitty Island Adventure is over there —-———————————→

styx.7294:

I thought the order was party -> players -> NPCs?

You thought wrong.

DevonCarver.5370:

Tommyknocker.6089:

Stormleaf.1769:

And once they make the WvW achievements more attainable, you’ll move on to whining about the lack of especially ‘difficult’ and ‘prestigious’ WvW titles like this one.

Hmmm, well I can’t say that I would “whine” I am just stating an obvious failing of this portion of the GW2 world. However if they can add titles for such things as say, “respected achiever”, what is the problem with adding a respected yakslapper title?

As for the achievements, you could just make it so that instead of getting say 10 achievement points for 50000 kills you could get at least 50 for such a milestone! If it is possible to get this same amount for doing 16/16 easy achievement in PvE, I for one cannot see the harm in upping the rewards.

Although these titles might not be considered as “prestigious” if done in tiers I can see no harm in showing to others what you have achieved thus-far. The same goes for the “milestones” in our achievement points offering a title, even though 5000 ap’s isn’t much I see many many players touting that particular one.

edit: clarity and spelling

Last time I’m saying this for a good bit. We are going to address this system before the end of the year, ideally, and make it more in line in terms of numbers and rewards as the rest of the achievements in the game.

End of the year…. so sometime in the next 4 months, I guess that is better then soon?

One might question why adding achievements is taking 16 months, I am sure it is a technical limitation of some kind as that is the most common excuse.

Slomoshun.6317:

Also every time we stopped and stacked last night before we engaged into a battle we had no more than 35 on a pin. 35 maybe 40 going against 25-30 AGG and another 35+ mixed Pyro/Derp/VR zerg.

Not sure why anyone is implying 35-40 is not many. In a match that is already decided I see no point in any group larger then 20-25 being out there. Sure you might collapse multiple small zergs to take on a larger force/objective when needed, but that is different then just blobbing everyone together. Makes for boring play.

While I am ranting let me also suggest that folks stop stacking. Not that it doesn’t have its place, but it is so over used it makes me cry. I challenge commanders and their blobs to go an entire night without stacking. Every night I go out and I watch zerg/groups kitten away momentum, surprise and positioning all so they can stack first. It is sad, and again makes for boring play.

PVT is a crutch. Look at the carebear PvE forums, they all know PVT is a crutch and boot PVT noobs out of their groups, yet here we are in WvW where everyone is limping around with their crutch. Not to say specific roles, up-levels, people that play with their face shouldn’t be using PVT, but evaluate your role and adjust your gear accordingly because all PVT makes for boring play.

My bank annoyed me and I am in a ranting mood, apologizes in advance.

Keep downed state, it is so useful for destroying zergs. Just remove rally.

Thanks for the fights tonight.

Xirin.8593:

Halo.8976:

Xirin.8593:

A few days ago, a [Pink] Necro danced on me after 9001 TC ran over 5-6 [AoN].

I haven’t slept since =/

You should write a book.

Chapter 1: My Jimmies

My tale begins with my delicate jimmies. They had never been rustled before. All of that changed one fateful day in The Eternal Battlegrounds.

I followed my courageous guild leader deep into territory owned by the Tarnished Coasters. However, I underestimated the extent of their evil and wicked ways.

…to be continued.

I think it would be better as a sad song.

Lanimal.6541:

Also flute is so short-sighted in his hate for GvG he doesnt realize the long term benefits. Guilds who improve @ GvG often take those tactics and metas to regular WvW so the fact that the guilds on your server are improving consistently using the gvg mode the overall effect on his server’s PPT is positive over the long term.

Not to mention retention and activity level of players that would have otherwise just quit playing, switched servers, or playing at reduced levels. GvG brings more people out on a consistent basis.

I wish folks would stop suggesting it be done in the EB JP.

You cannot port there directly and access is effected by ques and keep ownership. Could you hold some there, yes, but it isn’t a location you can plan around.

Will the boosters effect the wxp drink? If so you might buy one if you had a stack to burn on an alt.

racta.4250:

I had an enjoyable time seeing [AoN] last night. Racta and Shinty’s group is making a comeback under the [Bush] tag, we’re currently building up a 5man group that we plan to roam with. Would love to set up some 5v5’s in a couple weeks if you guys are dtf.

Are the guys that played WAR still in the guild? Narian’s kitten kitten still running things?

Contact Convenant [AoN] he is usually happy to set up a 5v5.

Bovinity.8610:

and now you can’t get people in to do WvW because the GvG people and spectators have taken over.

This move has been a long time coming and a slow trickle all along. It is not GvG that has taken over, the issue is that WvW is irrelevant and a waste of time to focus on for the vast majority of the players and servers in this game.

NA servers have only so much off-hour population to make a few servers competitive, 3.5 to be exact. Everyone else, what is PPT to them? WvW is a PvP activity, it is supposed to be competitive. However the system ANET has created, their decisions around coverage and population, and match making, has built a system that is only really competitive for a few servers. GvG is just a way to add competition back for folks that are tired of pointless matches that are lopsided and mostly predetermined before reset is 5 mins old.

Instead of blaming GvG folks should be focusing on why people have become so disinterested in WvW.

I want trap mastery so i can better troll zergs with supply traps.

I agree with the second poster, I suspect the ‘big announcement’ lol, is going to be about the lake and orb.

rmBossa.4621:

Niim.9260:

PredatoR.5247:

10v10 < Least fun, boring in our personal opinion
15v15 < It is okay, but definitely not the excitement we are looking for
20v20 < We prefer this most

I find this scale odd honestly. Granted I prefer to play at the 5-8 level, so I am biased.

However as you add numbers to the size of group specific things occur:

- individual responsibility reduced
- mistake buffer by any one individual increased
- impact of loss of person reduced
- synergy between members reduced
- need for coordinated skill use reduced

Why does any of that lead to more excitement, seems like the opposite to me.

I understand other reasons for wanting to run 20v20 such as:

- we are a large guild and want to include as many people as possible
- we run a large group in WvW and want to mimic that setup

I get those, makes sense to me, but excitement level… not really.

Dont disagree at all, but to try and answer your question:

The excitement comes from the unique competitive nature of GvGs, its different then small scale but trust me its there. There is a reason that one of the teams in the Tpvp championship being held at PAX is made up of players from a top GvG guild on EU (votf) Top notch competition brings in top notch players (Red Guard always an example)

Guess I just do not get it, which is fine, not judging. When I did some GvG it seemed to me like organized zerging with boring meta, not excitement. To each their own and just to be clear I am a supporter of GvG, if folks like doing it and it keeps them interested in the game I am all for it. Overall I think it has increased the skill cap a bit in the game, hopefully it continues to do so and maybe down the road we will see more roaming small mans.

LilMcGinley.3890:

Niim.9260:

LilMcGinley.3890:

2) overpower commands? If any guild is good enough, you don’t need 1 commander to ALWAYS be there talking 24/7, everyone should be good enough to know what they need to be doing regardless of who is leading.

If any guild is good enough, you don’t need to spy on the enemy or mess with their commands in voice chat.

Still sounds like y’all need to learn to let go… or at least, like I’ve said, take a chance to get your “revenge” on “those bad people from Agg”. Y’all are taking a random troll moment from a guild & making it your motto for life… kind of sad really…

Take your forum warriors and actually prove something on the battlefield.

I didn’t say anything for or against Agg, I was simply pointing out how silly it is for you to tell others to suck it up because if they were good enough they could deal with it, when I doubt that is the point of their anger in the first place and on the flip side if someone is good why are they trolling other folks voice chats.

LilMcGinley.3890:

2) overpower commands? If any guild is good enough, you don’t need 1 commander to ALWAYS be there talking 24/7, everyone should be good enough to know what they need to be doing regardless of who is leading.

If any guild is good enough, you don’t need to spy on the enemy or mess with their commands in voice chat.

PredatoR.5247:

10v10 < Least fun, boring in our personal opinion
15v15 < It is okay, but definitely not the excitement we are looking for
20v20 < We prefer this most

I find this scale odd honestly. Granted I prefer to play at the 5-8 level, so I am biased.

However as you add numbers to the size of group specific things occur:

- individual responsibility reduced
- mistake buffer by any one individual increased
- impact of loss of person reduced
- synergy between members reduced
- need for coordinated skill use reduced

Why does any of that lead to more excitement, seems like the opposite to me.

I understand other reasons for wanting to run 20v20 such as:

- we are a large guild and want to include as many people as possible
- we run a large group in WvW and want to mimic that setup

I get those, makes sense to me, but excitement level… not really.

What do you think the long term effect of increased skill, quality of play, and retention of players is on servers with active GvG populations?

Straegen.2938:

Emerge.9640:

For many, wvw is a time sink until ESO and Unchained are out.

ESO announced a $15 monthly sub. It better be unbelievably great to charge a sub in this market space.

If they charge me $15/month rather then me spending the equiv in the gemstore all the apologists that think its ok to treat us like garbage because we are not paying a sub will have to find another excuse..

Nuzt.7894:

Time lock is a terrible idea, essentially your saying X time is more important then Y time thus Y time shouldn’t matter.

The current system already says that. Because there is a lot fewer players in off hour populations for NA servers, those people become a necessity for any server that wants to compete in rankings. Simple supply and demand, there is not enough people playing in off hours to provide sufficient coverage for all servers and thus they are more important.

Phedre Scion.1520:

As a California player I would not like that time lock. I don’t even get home from work until 7 p.m. most nights (not including when I have a board meeting) and then by the time I finish homework with the kids and put them to bed I don’t even log onto GW2 until 9:30 to 10 p.m. So you would only give me, a U.S. person about 2 hours to WvW?

PPT only has to be one part of WvW, not all of it. Aeon had a system where fortresses only became vulnerable for certain periods of the day, based on time zone of that server. The abyss was still very active outside of that period and I think that is how it should work in WvW. Set up lots to do in WvW so that when the competitive focus of PPT is not counting there is lots for people to do.

This is already occurring. The vast majority of servers and its players stopped caring about PPT a long time ago because it is entirely a reflection of coverage and population. Yet night after night these servers are filled with folks going through the motions of WvW without a care at all for the PPT side of the equation.

In NA we have basically 3.5 servers that have the population to compete for the current PPT system and thus care about it. ANET’s vision that no hour is more important then another is a broken concept because by default it makes the off hours of a given region more important to a server. The servers with stronger off hours is who gets the NA transfers and it is a necessity for being a top ranked server. Many servers have very strong NA, but only a few have strong off hour populations. This ends up focusing players into very specific servers, creating ques and skill lag.

In my opinion the current system really just favors a few servers at the expense of everyone else. Having a lot more servers able to compete in my opinion greatly outweighs the negatives of such a system..

Johje Holan.4607:

Jscull.2514:

Love Devon, I respond to your response and you infract it. Classic.

PAXA is gone. Not sure about RG don’t know them. We couldn’t spend one more frustrating second in this game headed south. To answer your question, well probably try ESO, but the main event is dark age 2. Thank god mark Jacobs has been thru the ringer and back.

Devon, someone should ask you what your business plan via your job of “updating wvw as LEAD designer” is for when other games come out and gw2 blows up. Answer that question with some straight to the point facts brother.

Yeah sounds like this game is not for you. Nowhere in the lead up to WvW did they say it was all about hard core PvP. In fact, I remember it was advertised to be designed for a wide audience and that people who normallly woudn’t play PvP would enjoy it and would be about large scale battles involving sieging structures.

No one expects WvW to be all about hard core PvP, but no one also expects it to be carebear, hello kitty island adventure either. This game has taken ‘lowering the bar’ to an epic new level.

PredatoR.5247:

[ZN] will be our last 15v15 fight, we will only be accepting 20v20’s after [ZN] gvg

lol

Arya.9021:

6/6 runes with torch mes = 25 stacks ez. Outside of PvP (WvW) you can stack with condi duration sigils/food buffs. It’s slightly unfair, but bring more condi removal.

You can put up confusion stacks faster then you can remove them, so more condi removal is not going to help most classes.

I love destroying folks with it, but it is in need of an ICD.

does anyone know why they were changed in the first place? I cant say as I recall ever seeing someone complain about those symbol colors before, so why were they changed?

mini.6018:

“The new”Confusion spam only kills NOOBS that don’t know to equip stability/bring condi cleanse/dodge since it only activates on interrupts.So yeah,faceroll keyboard spam more skills to get chain interrupted.

Or …. maybe play smarter ?

Why do people making dumb comments tell others to play smarter?

The ease and speed of putting the confusion on with the runes far outpaces the ability of others to avoid/cleanse it.

It needs an ICD of some kind and they need to change it so that dodge traits do not trigger confusion. Damage itself is fine I think.

dreztina.4820:

Think I’m going to wait for Anet to actually do something good for the game before I start thanking people for promising future changes.

+1. Given that Devon posted that WvW intentionally gets the shaft to force us to fill PvE maps, I am not overly optimistic on future changes.

When they remove the lake, I think they should fill the entire area with the ruin like structures in front of the blue keep in ebg. That would be fun, like praag in WAR.

Devon posted that WvWers should all get short changed to ensure we fill the PvE maps, so working as intended.

Shrouded.6450:

That doesn’t even come close. You, however said this:

If I see mags folks tower hugging in a match we are domination I will make fun of them and call them on it. If I see mags doing golem rushes in a match we are dominating I will make fun of them and call them on it, not to mention destroy the golems if given a chance. I certainly will not defend those actions.-—-Niim

That’s quite a number of ifs to me imo.

Ok then, I am pretty sure a long winded example is not going to help either, so have a good day.

Shrouded.6450:

You’re taking my post out of context now. You know I posted a lot more than that. I actually looked up your quote and addressed it. Where did you even get the “if” factor pray tell?

The ‘if’ factor is because you say things like:

Shrouded.6450:

you’ll make fun of your own server for defending their home BL

What I actually said was that I would make fun of them for tower hugging and golem rushes.

Given that it is entirely possible to defend without tower hugging and golem rushes, my view is that the discussion is not about the ‘if’ they defend, rather the ‘how’ they defend.

Is the ‘if’ clear now or should I write a long winded example?

Shrouded.6450:

From what I can tell, your issue is with our militias/pugs defending our home BL even though we’re dominating this match up. Something I really have no problem with…

My comments have been about the ‘how’ not ‘if’.

Shrouded.6450:

Ok…how do mags defend their BL?

Just read the posts, only a couple of them.

Shrouded.6450:

That’s not really his point though, whether you’re dominating or not, I don’t see anything wrong with defending your home BL. I don’t know if it’s the same with any servers, but our home BL is where our newcomers usually hangs around. I don’t mind at all if they want to help us in there.

We are not debating to defend or not, the discussion is about how you do it.

Asudementio.8526:

Niim.9260:

Asudementio.8526:

Niim.9260:

Asudementio.8526:

Boonprot.6274:

WvW was so boring tonight. TC is almost as good as JQ at running into towers and hiding. I’m looking at you, TC BL defenders. We’d try and goad them into doing actual open-field, but they’d either bring a full queue zerg to wipe us or run for a tower and sit on ACs.

Also, ACs should be removed from the game.

But without ACs what would Maguuma do on Mag bl? Also i’ll be sure to take pictures of the Mag BL defenders when they are hiding in a keep or in a tower.

I think comparing the server winning by 60k after 2.5 days with the server that is constantly outnumbered is a great idea that provides a lot of merit to your argument.

The merit of my argument rests on the similarity of behaviors. If you want to chastise one group for acting in one manner then give a pass to a group for acting the same way that’s fine, but expect to be called out on it once and a while. On the outnumbered bit, Mag has been able to field more than enough to defend mag bl during it’s prime times give Mag some credit, unless you are going for pity i suppose.

Similar behaviours in entirely different situations. Yes by collapsing everyone to one map and playing defensive they have enough to defend mag BL. Should that group not be playing more defensive than the server with a massive lead and zergs on all four maps?

You are bemoaning TC for defending TC bl while ignoring Mag doing the same for Mag bl. Only so many people can fit on a map.

If I see mags folks tower hugging in a match we are domination I will make fun of them and call them on it. If I see mags doing golem rushes in a match we are dominating I will make fun of them and call them on it, not to mention destroy the golems if given a chance. I certainly will not defend those actions.

In a match where we are clearly the massive underdog, specially in the third week of it, I have no complaints, because whatever keeps them coming out and playing is fine by me.

Jayne.9251:

Yep and WvW in Tier 1 and Tier 2 NA is more like a job and less like a game for fun.

I have a suggestion: Since EU seems more accomodating to GvG, why don’t all the guilds interested in GvG head over there, and leave the WvW ppt meta folks NA? Then those protesting a couple hours during a week of GvG time can see the real impact of these guilds they are so maligning.

Just a thought.

Not sure anyone would go for increased latency in a competitive matchup.

Asudementio.8526:

Niim.9260:

Asudementio.8526:

Boonprot.6274:

WvW was so boring tonight. TC is almost as good as JQ at running into towers and hiding. I’m looking at you, TC BL defenders. We’d try and goad them into doing actual open-field, but they’d either bring a full queue zerg to wipe us or run for a tower and sit on ACs.

Also, ACs should be removed from the game.

But without ACs what would Maguuma do on Mag bl? Also i’ll be sure to take pictures of the Mag BL defenders when they are hiding in a keep or in a tower.

I think comparing the server winning by 60k after 2.5 days with the server that is constantly outnumbered is a great idea that provides a lot of merit to your argument.

The merit of my argument rests on the similarity of behaviors. If you want to chastise one group for acting in one manner then give a pass to a group for acting the same way that’s fine, but expect to be called out on it once and a while. On the outnumbered bit, Mag has been able to field more than enough to defend mag bl during it’s prime times give Mag some credit, unless you are going for pity i suppose.

Similar behaviours in entirely different situations. Yes by collapsing everyone to one map and playing defensive they have enough to defend mag BL. Should that group not be playing more defensive than the server with a massive lead and zergs on all four maps?

Asudementio.8526:

Boonprot.6274:

WvW was so boring tonight. TC is almost as good as JQ at running into towers and hiding. I’m looking at you, TC BL defenders. We’d try and goad them into doing actual open-field, but they’d either bring a full queue zerg to wipe us or run for a tower and sit on ACs.

Also, ACs should be removed from the game.

But without ACs what would Maguuma do on Mag bl? Also i’ll be sure to take pictures of the Mag BL defenders when they are hiding in a keep or in a tower.

I think comparing the server winning by 60k after 2.5 days with the server that is constantly outnumbered is a great idea that provides a lot of merit to your argument.

Thesilentflute.8761:

It is a server issue, but not just a server issue I doubt other servers are as close nit as blackgate and you don’t…. get close match ups… you make them.

Seems like the problem is easily fixed for you then. Given that BG is a special snowflake in the ‘close nit’ department you can all just agree not to GvG. JQ doesnt GvG at all and they have no guilds that would even be capable. That leaves SoR who cant GvG by themselves. Problem solved for all the T1 servers that actually still care about coverage wars.

The rest of the game can continue with their GvGs.

Ragnar.4257:

I wouldn’t mind banning food buffs, however, unlike stacks you can’t get rid of them. So if you wanted everyone to do without, you’d likely spend alot of time stood around waiting for food to time-out.

Or you could just over-write it with some cheap 10% exp food.