Guild Wars 2

ParaldaWind.4523:

Any restrictions on skills prevents GvG from remaining an accurate representation and simulation of real open field fights. I use GvG to improve for open field fights, and there are no skill restrictions there.

It is not an accurate representation of real open field fights in the first place. It takes out reaction time, it takes out surprise and need to be alert, it takes out the need to build your group so you can fight much larger groups and in many different situations, etc.

Given those differences I do not think the lack of a rally banner is going to negatively impact your training.

Thesilentflute.8761:

Depending on the time it is done it can have a huge effect or none at all. If it is done early in the week it can turn the tide for the whole week by granting a server a foothold where they would not normally. If done late in the week or in the jp it has little to no effect on the outcome.

In the NA T1 match up 2 weeks ago bg had a 10-20 k lead a bg guild was challenged to a gvg and pretty much gave up the whole map during it(a pve guild at that) because of this offset sor gained the lead by mid week. Lucky enough for bg a sor guild was foolish enough to organize a gvg before they got to far ahead and bg was able to pull ahead by 10k in the end.

Turning the tide of battle is not a hard, but “GvG” happens to directly question the value of the achievement set upon.

Personally I doubt GvG turns the tide of battle, but assuming you are right this is a server issue. If you do not want your guilds GvGing at specific times/locations then take that up with them. The vast majority of the game stopped thinking PPT meant anything more then coverage months ago and could care less unless they win the lottery and actually get a close matchup.

Angel.6085:

And to AoN who keeps talking about wiping us, congrats on wiping an up level zerg of level 20’s who you STILL had to pick off the slow pokes one by one to get the group of about 15 lvl 20’s and 2 lvl 80’s down enough to make it manageable for you. :P

I just looked over the thread to make sure I didn’t miss something, but as far as I can tell I am the only one from AoN that posted on the topic and I said ‘thanks for the fight’. I am sorry you find that offensive.

As for the rest of your paragraph I am not going to bother responding. The post was meant in thanks and I will just leave it at that rather than play he said she said.

Lanimal.6541:

On the topic of Banners, I dislike them and would want them to be a mechanic that is not allowed or at least restricted in GvGs. Granted, there is definitely a mini-game / skill in the banner/downed/rally game within every GvG round. My biggest problem with it is that it continues to propagate a stagnant meta of heavy melee train focus. If Banners were restricted or taken out of the picture I think the meta would become creative and evolve quicker.

I agree with this.

GvG has made WvW better. On servers that have a GvG presence you are seeing less blobs and more organized guild zergs. Sure they are still zergs, sure they still rely on PVT, but it is not a blob and I think that is a huge step in the right direction.

I personally hope that GvG is just the first step and the second will be to start see these GvG groups break up into small, coordinated groups built on synergy. I think the DAoC roaming group model is a better fit for WvW as it stands currently.

Either way PPT matters to T1 servers and close matchups, of which we have almost none so I fail to see why folks think GvG has a negative effect on WvW in most cases.

Ahmrill.7512:

RoyHarmon.5398:

Personally, I’m willing to give the WvW krewe the benefit of the doubt. Remember, they’ve probably invested more time in this than you have, and as passionate as you may be about the state of WvW, these guys know it far more intimately.

I guess I’m a little disappointed that some of these things were not in at launch. GW2 did so many things right but seem to ignore basic group functions in WvW. Stuff I thought they would address soon after launch is still unchanged almost a year later.

How can the complete lack of UI group functions have gone on this long? Social grouping in a modern MMO should be easy….. it’s nothing but frustrating atm.

Its not like every other recent game has had a functioning squad style system on release. They really are inventing something totally new and original here so it takes time… lol

Cazio.2137:

I left awhile back due to the complete lack of support for WvW, has anything changed?

No, there is a new puppet master spinning to us, but otherwise its all the same.

LordKael.7260:

And the point of this thread is…?

If I was to guess, I would guess the OP was blaming Agg for the meltdown at the windmill that resulted in a big bloody brawl. I do not think Agg started it, more looked like a guild from TC did, but they could have been responding to something that I didn’t see.

Was a lot of fun though, so who cares.

I think their guild tag is good indication.

Thanks to KH and rB for the GvG’s tonight.

I spent money to transfer down a tier in hopes of getting less skill lag and smaller zergs. Instead I have been paired with T1/T1.5 server every since I moved. So I get the population of a T3 server, but still have to fight T1 servers with all the blobing, zerging, mind-numbing, skill lag inducing play-styles that go with them.

This matchup system is absolutely awesome and I am so glad they ‘tweaked’ it like they said they would…

I started downloading a new game, might give that a try this week instead of being disgusted by zerging trash thinking if they GvG a few times a week it makes up for the fact that they spend the rest of the time blobing.

insanemaniac.2456:

Niim.9260:

Personally I would rather be the 10 then the 50, at least you have a target rich environment.

In all honesty I doubt most of the 50 actually care, if they did care why do they ball up into 50 and golem rush zones with 10 defenders? There are other options, they choose to ball up into 50.

if you can manage to even down 1 of those 50 as the 10… well you sure as hell arent getting a kill.

50 leaves a long tail, lots to kill.

Yay another week of zerg filled goodness.

Hrist.8972:

Niim.9260:

Hrist.8972:

Niim.9260:

Hrist.8972:

Niim.9260:

Yes apologist, if someone wants a Legendary weapon, one of the few ‘work towards’ carrots the game has, they are forced into PvE. Devon said that they give us kitten loot in WvW because they need us to fill PvE maps, ie forcing folks out there if a person wants that level of loot.

My comment was that it is a failed approach because once you decide you do not need a legendary, you do not need the loot, and as such do not need PvE at all.

Trying to force people out there will never be as effective as making PvE worth doing.

But you can get the same level loot from WvW, exotics are in line with legendary at the moment, they are the same level. So you’re not losing out in terms of effectiveness at least. Because of that, you don’t have to do PvE at all and focus on WvW all you want, isn’t that as intended?

Before you respond to another one of my posts, please read it.

Nice dodge.

Still not reading apologist?

I get it that you are complaining because you can’t get what you want out of only one game type, but it’s the same for everyone else. PvE guys need to step bit into WvW to get their legendaries. And just because you don’t find PvE content enjoyable doesn’t make it a fact, there’s so many individuals who do only PvE and love it and because that issue is subjective, I’m not going to dip my hand into it. My issue with one of your posts was the sentence in where you alleged that you are forced out of WvW to get same level loot as PvE guys, which isn’t exactly true, though it isn’t exactly wrong either because of the backpiece at the moment. Keep on that clean ad hominem, it’s a nice change of pace from the usual kind.

You do not get it because that is not what I am complaining about. My comment is that short changing WvWers will not make them do more PvE and it is a broken approach. Even if you make a few more folks hit the the PvE zones, is that worth having most of the WvW population feeling like ANET doesn’t care about their game type and that they get shafted in favor of PvE at every opportunity? I think it is bad business.

If you want folks to play more game types, then make them all equally fun to play. I like PvE, but I need it to be a challenge, complicated and involve thinking and discussing ways through an encounter and most importantly involve teamwork. The only challenge in GW2’s PvE at endgame is how fast you can run the otherwise easy dungeon, or making it to a high enough fractal for it to become superficially challenging before it gets boring and repetitive. I do living story events if there is a worthwhile rewards or it interests me, but that takes like a day or two and you have worked your way through it and generally none of it is challenging.

My comment about “same level loot” is about amount and value, nothing at all to do with stats. I can AFK while working, watch timers and spend a few minutes at each event getting credit and then picking up my loot. Doing that one day will earn me significantly more golds/exotics and thus chances at precursor then I will get actively playing with my server mates in WvW all week. Devon seems to feel that is good business, I think it is kitten.

Personally I would rather be the 10 then the 50, at least you have a target rich environment.

In all honesty I doubt most of the 50 actually care, if they did care why do they ball up into 50 and golem rush zones with 10 defenders? There are other options, they choose to ball up into 50.

Hrist.8972:

Niim.9260:

Hrist.8972:

Niim.9260:

Yes apologist, if someone wants a Legendary weapon, one of the few ‘work towards’ carrots the game has, they are forced into PvE. Devon said that they give us kitten loot in WvW because they need us to fill PvE maps, ie forcing folks out there if a person wants that level of loot.

My comment was that it is a failed approach because once you decide you do not need a legendary, you do not need the loot, and as such do not need PvE at all.

Trying to force people out there will never be as effective as making PvE worth doing.

But you can get the same level loot from WvW, exotics are in line with legendary at the moment, they are the same level. So you’re not losing out in terms of effectiveness at least. Because of that, you don’t have to do PvE at all and focus on WvW all you want, isn’t that as intended?

Before you respond to another one of my posts, please read it.

Nice dodge.

Still not reading, apologist?

Hrist.8972:

Niim.9260:

Yes apologist, if someone wants a Legendary weapon, one of the few ‘work towards’ carrots the game has, they are forced into PvE. Devon said that they give us kitten loot in WvW because they need us to fill PvE maps, ie forcing folks out there if a person wants that level of loot.

My comment was that it is a failed approach because once you decide you do not need a legendary, you do not need the loot, and as such do not need PvE at all.

Trying to force people out there will never be as effective as making PvE worth doing.

But you can get the same level loot from WvW, exotics are in line with legendary at the moment, they are the same level. So you’re not losing out in terms of effectiveness at least. Because of that, you don’t have to do PvE at all and focus on WvW all you want, isn’t that as intended?

Before you respond to another one of my posts, please read it.

DevonCarver.5370:

Equinox.4195:

So, in regards to GvG and openfield, I don’t see a lot of “rampant speculation” going on. If nothing else, you chose your words poorly. The complaints about this new system potentially killing the GvG scene is entirely grounded.

This forum and this topic in particular are about WvW. WvW is about sieging and controlling objectives and about open field combat. All our changes are with that totality in mind and will continue to be.

Except everything you do is about siege and controlling objectives, the totality of including open field combat in WvW has largely been kicked into the dark hole in the basement patch after patch as you continually lower the competitive bar so that everyone can just stumble across it.

Hrist.8972:

Niim.9260:

Maybe a better solution is to make the content in all the game types to be worth playing without being forced?

In past games I did a lot of PvE, I do not in this game because it is a joke. Dreadfully easy or repetitive rubbish like fractals. Really the ONLY reason to do it is money, but once you decide not to get a legendary, you have no need of money at all.

Sorry that your PvE is so bad you have to force WvWers out there, but really I would rather not have a legendary then deal with that garbage.

Why would you be forced to anything if you have no desire for the legendary? Or are you saying you’re forced to have a legendary? And that you should get it from wherever you please? Come on…

Yes apologist, if someone wants a Legendary weapon, one of the few ‘work towards’ carrots the game has, they are forced into PvE. Devon said that they give us kitten loot in WvW because they need us to fill PvE maps, ie forcing folks out there if a person wants that level of loot.

My comment was that it is a failed approach because once you decide you do not need a legendary, you do not need the loot, and as such do not need PvE at all.

Trying to force people out there will never be as effective as making PvE worth doing.

DevonCarver.5370:

2) What I said had literally nothing to do with how you get items in the game and had everything to do with the fact that the game is just better when there are other players around. Empty maps are less fun than maps with people on them. If we didn’t encourage people to play multiple game types there would be many more empty maps.

Maybe a better solution is to make the content in all the game types to be worth playing without being forced?

In past games I did a lot of PvE, I do not in this game because it is a joke. Dreadfully easy or repetitive rubbish like fractals. Really the ONLY reason to do it is money, but once you decide not to get a legendary, you have no need of money at all.

Sorry that your PvE is so bad you have to force WvWers out there, but really I would rather not have a legendary then deal with that garbage.

Just remove golems from game, they are nothing but a mechanism to avoid a fight.

selan.8354:

cant wait for cu. once that one is out ill get real wvw.

Maybe. As much as I want the game to succeed I also view MJ’s involvement as a handicap.

Seems like this just removes the need for people to communicate. This is a game of people, communication is as part of it as anything else.

shagworth.5017:

Are there any Anet devs that actually play WvW?

I don’t mean finding a commander icon and just PUGing it up. I mean actual organized gameplay.

I think the answer is clearly no if they think this is good idea.

Did you watch the live stream of small squad play that ANET did a few months back? A keyboard turning clicker showed us all how to run around in a poorly built group, die a lot and point out siege placement locations.

So no, they do not play much other than pug it up.

To me the rally system is counter to the ANET philosophy of inclusion. The idea that no one should chase other people away.

Rally is likely one of the biggest reasons that organized groups do not like people following them and also one of the bigger reasons why even zergs frown on up-levels.

Get rid of rally so we can be more inclusive!

VOLKON.1290:

Whoever built the golem should have the option to eject someone if they took the golem if they wish. Yes, it should probably be a simple they’re out, you’re in thing… but some nice eject animations would be interesting…

That would remove the opportunity for us to destroy those golems so I would be against this change.

No increased rewards until they make it so it is not macroable. The reality is most of the time those trebbers are AFK with a macro firing the treb. Obvious when you see the rocks still flying long after their own team has taken the target.

Shoe.5821:

the zerg rally wouldnt happen if you stayed to kill people rather than rushing on to down everyone

:X

so i mean it seems as intended?

the whole idea of downed state is that if you move on its a problem….

This thread is NOT about the downed state, no one is saying to remove that, it is about the rally system.

No more PvE in WvW, there is too much of it as it is.

Phantom.8130:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Just remove rally.

I don’t see that happening though because of finishers.

they could leave the downed state in, and just remove the instant rallying from an opponent/PvE getting killed. then the finishers would still be useful, and 1 person wouldn’t revive half a zerg if they got killed.

Yea, I do not care about the downed state, seems to work fine so leave it in, but rally has no place in WvW.

Personally I am not a huge fan of the GvG system. It is far too static, more like mini-zergs fighting each other. In my opinion the roaming 8v8 setup from DAoC is a much better model for WvW as I enjoy the ever changing terrain and builds needed for 8v8 and 8vZerg at the same time. Little too easy to cheese comps in GvG.

That said I think if other folks enjoy it, then I support it, and I think overall it can only help improve the quality of play in this game, which frankly is sorely lacking, so I signed.

Jayne.9251:

Oh Niim, wait till they tell you that level 5 golem mastery sprouts 5 mini-golems to attack players/gates/walls, every 60 seconds.

Level 10 causes them to split into two every time you kill one.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

There are already a lot of players with ranks beyond 250. Are you suggesting that Anet punish them for their achievements?

What achievement? Running around in a giant blob PvDooring for WXP is not an achievement.

Ultravalefor.5038:

You’d best hope you never face the Tarnished Coast, Niim.
Blasphemy against our most high Golem God will be met with the only acceptable reaction… Immediate destruction.

All hail and all glory to the Lord of War and Rocket Fists! Praise the Superiority of Steel!

Blasphemers must be executed, wherever they dwell! Be warned, those who dare conspire with Niim.. The Church of the Golem God [COG] will find you wherever you are, and our inquisitors are not known for their… Delicate touch.

TC is a great example of why golems need to be destroyed every time you find one. Significant overuse and an inherent lack of interest by the server in fighting, no offense to a few notable exceptions on the server.

Your ideas imply that people that zerg cannot also group and zerg. They can and will.

Remove rally, all forms, from WvW.

Change all buffs/heals/cleanse to be group only.

Everyone can create squads and give squads a UI for management and display.

Change reward structure to stop favoring PvDoor zergs.

Change weakness back to the way it was.

Add short CC immunity timer.

AoE cap increase.

WXP abilities for non-siege users.

There are lots of things that can be done, but the reality is ANET is carebear central and “lowering the bar” is their official motto.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

I am actually quite happy with the many enhancements that have been made over the past 5 months.

Are you by chance a carebear zerglet that has no interest in a quality and competitive gaming environment? That would be my guess based on your view of the games ‘enhancements’.

Blix.8021:

So what exactly do you intend to accomplish by doing this?

Reduce the number of golem rushes in the game.

I think it should just be removed. It is a team game, your team should have to help you back up.

Given this is ANET and its about WvW which means they wont put much effort into it, my predictions are:

1) Quaggan and Krait mobs removed, the objective on the island will now be the Orb equiv. Stand in circle, win orb style bonuses for X many minutes before someone else can stand in circle to take it back.

2) Same as #1, but remove the water and its hole just make the entire lake a big flat area.

He isn’t doing his job very well. Is it because he doesn’t have the skills or because he has to much on his plate? No idea, it is up to him to figure it out and fix. Just letting it slide is really not an option, or it will not be fixed.

I think if your server can afford to build golem after golem then the time/cost of building them is of negligible importance to that server and thus the impact upon their removal is also negligible.

This idea is not about trolling, it is about making the game a better game. If you are an underdog in a match with outmanned buff, fair enough golem away, I wont mess with them.

Outside of that I find the whole idea of golems offensive. The entire premise of a golem rush is to avoid a defense… why should we be encouraging that? Are we not all here to fight it out and have a good time? PvDooring an objective that you rushed to avoid a defense seems boring and please do not go on about the ‘difficulty’ of executing a golem rush. If you zergs cannot follow simple commands and use mesmer portals properly, then maybe you do not deserve an objective in the first place.

Devesion.5704:

Sometimes when randoms build them yeah we have the urge to walk them off a cliff ^^

Why would random person’s golems be different then the others?

I think it would be great if we organized a collection of people who destroy our own teams golems whenever you find them unattended.

I do not do it now because I do not want to troll my own server, but I figure if I know people are doing it on my opponent teams as well, it’s just a collection of people making the game a better place.

Anyone else interested?

Obscure One.4357:

Niim.9260:

Gorani.7205:

dunnberry.2964:

Golem mastery announced in 2 weeks boys and girls! We all know its coming just like we called this

I think it is pretty obvious that all in-game siege would get a mastery eventually. But that is kind of a problem, too.
There are hardly any defensive abilities that work as a counterweight to all those stronger forms of attack, especially if they involve structures (I would consider the two Guard tracks, the Mercenary ability and Siege Bunker & Supply Capacity “personal buffs”).
Points in Build, Repair & Supply Mastery hardly counter all the offensive abilities.

PS: And more offensive abilities make it even less rewarding to defend anything, which is getting the short end of the stick right now anyway.

According to Devon more powerful siege with longer range is not power creep so its all O.K.

My question is will they run out of siege to add masteries too before they add more siege to the game? If they do run out, what then? No WvW content at all until we get more siege?

Think you’re mistaking the term content with scope. Adding a broader scope to an existing system is what they’re doing with WvW. Adding content is what they’re doing every couple weeks with the Living Story…content that they throw out because it’s made of butter so PvE casuals can slice right through it with ease, but as all dairy products it has an expiration date.

Not mistaking anything, using it as how ANET treats it. They deliver the WXP masteries as bread crumbs of new content. By all means post me a link to where they talk about WXP abilities as increased ‘scope’.

Mif.3471:

Can we just stop this already?

We know that they’re already all designed and finished, and that you’re just pulling one out each month to make it look like WvW is getting updates.

You’re not fooling anyone.

Furthermore, since people can’t refund WXP trait points, releasing them like this only serves to encourage people to farm more WXP to get the new traits, and the best way to farm WXP = Zerg.

Its not just zerg, its PvDoor that is the most rewarded.

Vena.8436:

Anything that encourages people to hide in their keeps less is a good thing.

Not sure how/why this would encourage zerging anymore than before.

While it may not be that much worse, it is certainly not better. Right now zergs set up a treb user in safety of an objective, they treb till something is ready to be taken and keeps trebbing until the defenders have left. Give the sign, back comes the zerg and rushes in for the cap. If for some reason that might not work, build 10 golems so you can take the objective without a defense.

Whatever it takes to avoid fighting is how the game currently works, it is better WXP gains to play that way and frankly for most of the player base those WXP points are the reward, not the fight.

Gorani.7205:

dunnberry.2964:

Golem mastery announced in 2 weeks boys and girls! We all know its coming just like we called this

I think it is pretty obvious that all in-game siege would get a mastery eventually. But that is kind of a problem, too.
There are hardly any defensive abilities that work as a counterweight to all those stronger forms of attack, especially if they involve structures (I would consider the two Guard tracks, the Mercenary ability and Siege Bunker & Supply Capacity “personal buffs”).
Points in Build, Repair & Supply Mastery hardly counter all the offensive abilities.

PS: And more offensive abilities make it even less rewarding to defend anything, which is getting the short end of the stick right now anyway.

According to Devon more powerful siege with longer range is not power creep so its all O.K.

My question is will they run out of siege to add masteries too before they add more siege to the game? If they do run out, what then? No WvW content at all until we get more siege?

Virindiira.1025:

there will be never an account wide wvw system. you earn the rank with your char. you will never see an twink will all the cool the stuff you can have in wvw and thats good.

That implies there is cool stuff to get in the first place. There is not.

I think the problem is that we do not have a community manager in charge of digging out that information and with the expertise in knowing how to balance the need to inform vs the need to manage expectations. Having a designer/coordinator acting in that role is creating an information road block.

This game has way to much res/rally to start with, banner rally should just be outright removed from the game. Just another zerglet crutch.