Guild Wars 2

I am not in favor of the idea because it means more people hiding behind walls and less people out there doing things, ie scouting.

I would rather see them as a form of siege that cannot be placed within towers/keeps and rather out in the map. In many ways it accomplishes the same thing while actually having some ‘risk’ to it.

Phantom.8130:

personally, i find the d/p perma-stealth troll thief to be far more potent.

D/P is for those that are too incompetent to use C&D in combat, they need face-roll stealth.

I would guess #2 will be the most popular. It’s not like hand holding zerglets, which make up the vast majority of the player base, are overly impacted by a blow out match. They still get to zerg around in a giant ball regardless if they go up against anyone or not.

Its the folks interested in challenging fights that get the shaft in the new system.

Xsorus.2507:

Why do I keep seeing people say “SBI is gaining rating this weekend”

A. No one gives two craps about rating….Because Rating was about Population and nothing else…The reason we were down in Tiers was because we had no population….and it was getting stale getting zerged over and over again all day long at nights because SOS had a huge zerg that just PVD.

B. Pairing us against 2 servers with bigger population doesn’t help us, improving our rating when the match simply isn’t fun isn’t a help…The fact that Anet thought this change in the first place was a good idea shows how dumb they really are when it comes to WvW… The only thing I enjoy about it is we have a lot of Anet people on SBI, and i’m hoping they get zerged into the ground with their terrible idea..

Completely agree. Personally I think ANET still think ranking is why people fight and yet their policies around 24/7 coverage and free transfers basically destroyed the point of rankings a long time ago.

So now we get ranking points as an incentive to why its great to have lopsided, boring, blow out matches. We said this would happen, and here we are, just as predicted.

Pryda.8257:

JonPeters.5630:

timidobserver.7925:

I have a couple of serious questions.
1. Did the person that came up with the math for this graduate from high school.
2. To prove it, please upload a copy of your high school diploma.

How about just a copy of their resume. I don’t see his high school experience on there. Hopefully the other stuff can count as relevant experience for your assessment.

http://www.glicko.net/cv.html

I had to bump this one last time for history.

I think it is nice that they posted the resume of someone that does not work at ANET at all. That’s like me giving an employer the resume of the creator of C# programming language when I apply for a job, extremely useful.

The issue with this entire thread is that there is two camps of people. Those that will not be impacted by a blowout match and thus the change of scenery and less stagnation of the matches is more important then if the matches are balanced.

Those that know how boring a blowout match is feel that balance is more important than stagnation. Every time you have a blowout match the winning server loses good players. They play less for the week, take a break, and a portion of those just never come back because the game is already boring, with an extremely low skill cap.

I do not think there are many people defending the glicko system, there are lots of problems, but does the new system actually help/fix anything or just create different problems? I agree with many other posters if you are going to go down this road then start with a very small amount of deviation and increase as needed. We need occasional matches where tier above/below shifts by one so that those feeling trapped in a lower tier get a chance to see if they can make it in the tier above and a chance to get the points to move there. What we do not need is T1 servers fighting T3 servers. Small deviation lets them watch how the new randomization is impacting the glicko system and then ANET can make informed decisions about the deviation.

End of the day ANET is the one that lead with the example of KN fighting JQ, if there is an image issue of this change it is their own kitten fault.

ghtchill.7613:

Sorry but I have a gripe, or perhaps a peeve. I’m really getting tired of people complaining about using arrow carts, and/or arrow carts in general. Arrow carts are a great tool provided to everyone, to be used where and when we choose.

Now if you are some hero with some personal, albeit meaningless WvW code about the use of arrow carts, then get over it. They are here to stay and ALL servers will use them as they see fit. Okay? That’s the game. Like it or hate it, but get over it and abide already.

No.

I saw this in another thread:

Mayoken.9851:

Right now we qeue 2-3 maps a night on average and qeue 3 maps during NA prime on the weekends, so there is space for Rethesis to que up that 4th map.

Is this true? FA is que’ing at the best of times 1 map a night with only 2 map’s getting que’d on reset night and weekend, we might get 3 maps on reset night, but only for a very small window of time. What is TC’s map ques like? For NA time prime.

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Making it so you don’t have to think in WvW about tactics and gameplay is stupid.

WvW was my last haven with something I still regularly enjoyed with GW2, it’s not enjoyable at this point.

I think the game needs to find a middle ground, because for me I have played more in the last two days than I have in the previous two weeks. I love the bug. For you this is not enjoyable, and yet we both want tactics, strategy and intelligent play.

Why do we as WvW’ers keep selling ourselves short in these discussion. “we do not play for the reward” or “you get it while you are doing what you are playing the game anyways” are both true statements, but how is it different at all from PvE rewards? Do they not get those chests for doing what they like to do as well?

When Devon posts statements like: “…to not invalidate the ways PvE players…” I think it is fair for WvWers to question what about validating the ways WvW players get loot?

I can half akitten farm investigator chests in Southsun and get the exact same thing as we are getting with a fraction of the effort. Dragon chests give better rewards and also dead simple to do.

There is a difference between being greedy and just wanting it balanced with other aspects of the game.

A poorly thought out reward system for WvW…. who would have thought.

Mayoken.9851:

People calling DB wagonbrand are regarded. The original NA guilds and the new ones get along quite fine on and off the field. Dragonbrand in my opinion overall does want and need RE, for performance and old friends sake.

None of the guilds that came to Dragonbrand want to leave. They all love the server. Winning a tier isn’t the biggest thing. Since the matchup changes. Good fights is all that anyone wants. People seem to not understand that Dragonbrand came up from Tier 3 and all the new guilds did was give DB the force it needed to compete in Tier 2 today.

If you can’t respect that, kitten yourselves.

One of the reasons folks view it as a bandwagon is that it has attracted obvious, well known bandwagon guilds, like CO, looking for another strong SEA server to carry them to victory.

No idea if it will be a bandwagon or not, but it certainly has a few tumors in the growth stage.

Loving WvW while it lasts, then back to hand holding carebear land of siegewars. Hopefully it takes as long to fix this as it took them to fix AC’s.

JoxerNL.3752:

No AC’s littering the landscape actually has people gasp "fighting in the battlegrounds!
Like all over the place, best bug -ever-!

Yes, finally a patch that I can appreciate.

Wryscher.1432:

I must admit this took longer then expected.

I give RE credit for trying to make KN work for them. They stuck with it when most of the bandwagon crowd bailed on the server before it even dropped a tier.

Good luck wherever you end up.

Who needs extra damage on a guard? Seems like you are complaining about nothing.

Rawnoodles.1398:

• Guild notifications when claimed forts are being attacked.
  exe. " your Hill’s Servername/map is currently under attack!"

Strongly disagree with this one, but I liked the other two.

The skill cap on WvW is already insanely low, making it so there was no longer a need for active scouting to me is a making the game even easier not to mention more people standing in the zerg ball. If the maps were bigger and time to respond was an issue I would agree, but as it stands no.

Dhampyr.2104:

The utter lack of understanding of WvW in the QQ of this thread is amazing, and I’ll leave it at that.

Don’t like WvW? Go do some PvE stuff and have some fun. It’ll save us from having to see the QQ in map chat. You’re happy and having fun, we’re happy and having fun. Win all the way around.

So says a zergling from a zerg guild.

Personally I do not mind the zergs nearly as much as I mind that the game seems to have set the skill cap one notch above ‘dreadfully easy’ and seem content to leave it there.

Some commanders yea they are using skill and tactics, no question. Some of the siege placement guru’s, yea they are using tactics as well. The map PPT strategists, I appreciate their skill. So if you have all those on a map at the same time that is what 5-10 people using skill and strategy while the rest follow them around like sheep spamming their tagging skill of choice?

This game is designed to be played on auto pilot while you watch TV. I cannot think of a game that has as low skill cap as this one, granted I haven’t played hello kitty island adventure.

Gravy.7589:

ANET can not win with most WvWers when it comes to ascended gear, as they dropped the ball horribly, early on when ascended gear was implemented for those who pve. The lack of insight or understanding the possible backlash from those in WvW is well ….. startling. Its seems that those that only WvW can’t and won’t let this go, which is justified.

You didn’t want to invalidate the ways pve players received their ascended pieces, when it took 6 months for ANET to get this far with ascended gear for wvw? That sentence alone is just …… kittenbull. Basically he is saying in GW2 pve >wvw and this is just what we should expect. IF you took the time to understand the WvW community you would get why fewer laurels and more badges would have been the better option. Badges are not, as some have stated so readily available for those who don’t wvw on the regular. Therefore if you wanted to validate our experience as those who just WvW and and farmed our badges for so many hours vs being SOOO worried about invalidating those who pve for ascended gear, you might have gotten this right.

This is a good post, imo. Six months to get a new vendor added to the game and then we are lectured about how it might invalidate PvEers??? Back when I ran a UO shard, I could get a new vendor created in about 5 mins of basic scripting. Granted GW2 is a more complex game, but I would be pretty surprised if they didn’t have basic tools to do the same thing.

Yay they finally fixed siege!

Dig out those rusty weapons, you have to fight each other!

Rawnoodles.1398:

Siege is broken.

Apparently dropping 15 prints on a map = siege cap? hmmmmm.

Seems like a pretty good improvement to me.

DevonCarver.5370:

We included the laurel cost to prevent the economy from suddenly being blown out and to not invalidate the ways PvE players can get ascended items already. This system means that it is faster to get them in WvW, especially for players who already have badges, without being so much faster that everyone only gets them in this manner. As for the difficulty of acquiring laurels in WvW, we have taken steps to address that, including the fact that there will always be 3 daily achievements that are WvW specific. Speaking personally, I’ve been able to achieve my dailies in WvW even without that change, but this should make it even easier.

Why did a vendor take 6-7 months to implement? I like how the concern is to not invalidate PvE players, yet you shafted WvWers for how many months longer then necessary?

Eyelusion.8205:

Using laurels as compensation gives the PVE who now goes WvW a potential big advantage over the strictly WvW player. It should not be this way. WvW players should have a distinct advantage in getting WvW gear over a PVE player, in my opinion.

There is no ‘WvW gear’ it is just gear and if you want it ‘fast’ you have that option, you are just choosing not to. I make a point of doing the dailies every day, sometimes I miss, but generally I get it and I do it almost always just in WvW. I do not find it a hardship to port to my home borderland and walk over to the crafter to convert 10 ore into ingots before I log off.

The thing that does kitten me off about this system is why was it not released in November when it was promised? What exactly about a vendor takes 6-7 months to implement? The only reason I can think of is because they wanted to stall people’s progress on getting ascended gear, so they shafted an entire portion of the player base. That is a reason to be annoyed, imo.

Zergs are not more effective, the game is full of lazy, low skill cap, hand holders that ANET keeps catering to, patch after patch. Coordinated, tightly built squads would be just as competitive if anyone bothered to play that way.

Let’s face it, it is easier and more rewarding in this game to watch TV and just spam tagging skills while running in a ball of 70 other people.

Jski.6180:

Excalibur.9748:

Where did AoN go?

No idea ran with them a good bit when i saw them on but then nothing for some time. They where never truly part of FA they where more of there own group out side of the worlds. Think mercenary like but not being payed by any one other then there own action. Not to say playing this way is bad it was just how AoN liked to play.

Most of the AoN members are taking an extended break for a variety of reasons. WXP, patch after patch of siege improvements, all strong indications that the game is going in a direction none of us are interested in. It is spring, university ending for some, new jobs, lots going on, so most just took a break.

As for the description of AoN, it is entirely inaccurate. AoN was involved with many of the commanders, part of TS when we were on a map, and were always happy to support and coordinate with whoever was directing a map. We did not play for PPT, but we supported our server whenever we could.

Hadan.2841:

@thustlehumper, U actually believe what that VK dude says? the entire FA server hated him and he qqed/raged whenever he wiped. Ofc he will say whatever to justify why he was wiping lol. but hey if u guys want to keep on saying its 2v1 go for it. ppl use excuses for everything nowadays i guess.

Why are you raging about an ex-FA’er saying that the appearance of 2v1 is purely coincidence?

I think it was WAR that let you buy special guards with upgrades, they had stealth detection. I liked how it worked there and it might be a good solution to this problem.

Any siege class, I recommend an Arrow Cart.

FearTheAmish.8730:

BUT! i believe making siege (acs/cats/bals) useful against players is a good thing. Because it adds another layer of strategic thinking. Now instead of basically just looking at numbers you now have to decide if going through that choke point is really smart. Or you can now use building siege as bait getting an enemy to swarm it then bring in AOE guys (necros and ele’s) to tear them apart. So instead of going QQ actually think of the plus sides and how you can use them best against your enemy.

Almost all of the real tactics in this game is already about siege, the ingenuity is about siege placement, and every patch just increases siege in some fashion. The WXP system is about siege, every non-siege related ability is an absolute joke, the only thing worth taking is siege masteries. ANET ignored WvW for months on end and then when they did pay attention to WvW all they have done is make siege more and more dominating.

Deciding if you should charge through a pinch point or using siege as bait is not a masterpiece of tactical brilliance, it fact if that is the best examples you could come up with, it speaks to lack of creativity in this game.

I think siege is a great and interesting part of the game, it is a necessary part, and for everyone that enjoys siege I am glad it in the game. However, it has become excessive and boring for everyone else.

It is a three way match for a reason. It is a L2P issue imo.

DevonCarver.5370:

Kraken.7514:

Well WvW is PvP (I hope), and pvp is in fact killing other players.

So indeed I think killing players should be rewarded more than any other thing.

I hope you are meaning the way in which you kill those players.

We should absolutely try to penalize somehow the zergy gameplay while incentive the medium and small scale pvp.

Am I wrong with this assumption?

WvW is about more than just PvP. Winning in WvW requires people building things, repairing walls, scouting, escorting dolyaks, etc. We want to continue to improve the rewards for doing those things as they facilitate the rest of your server capturing locations and killing foes. If you are helping to win the match, we want you to see rewards for that.

ANET’s approach is contradictory to itself, imo. One one hand you want to reward people for doing the things that matter and help contribute to a victory. I can get that. When it comes to fighting however the reward goes to the tagger. Not the people that get the job done. Drop the stupid tagging system and reward kills proportionally to the amount of damage done, and then make it so it is shared across the group so the support folks get their share.

You barely have to work for points, not sure why it is considered to slow? As long as WXP is based on tagging kills rather then how much you contribute to the kill, the system is an outright joke and is far to easy to get WXP.

For those of us that do not use siege and have no interest in siege, the WXP system is entirely pointless anyways.

Andy.9137:

well…on the 28th we will supposedly be fighting a different server every week, so……. I think the decision to move was a little premature unless there is more meaning behind it besides from wanting a change of scenery.

in other news, I acquired a hair dye kit and made my beard even whiter, and it is magnificent.

Make sure you use the toy bag back-piece item, your transformation will be complete.

JonPeters.5630:

I think the kittenumptions that everyone is making are:

1) The current ratings of servers are valid. They are not because we are not getting enough varied match-ups to even generate valid data. Trying to judge the quality of a server based on their current rating is much like judging the quality of people’s Reddit posts by the average # of up-votes they get.
2) How big a spread will make a game a blowout? Is 400 rating points even a significant difference? Really its just a number with very little meaning right now. Once this system starts working (based on the math of the system the idea is that a rating +/- deviation is in fact an accurate measurement of the range of what their rating might be in a perfect world so this is technically the way this whole thing was supposed to work from the get go.

I don’t want to do all of the probability math right now, but with absurdly high certainty there will only be a small amount of randomization each week as in order for a situation like Kaineng moving up to T1 to occur, every server from Blackgate to Maguuma would have to roll a lower range number than Kaineng, and some of them would literally have to roll almost -100% while Kaineng rolls almost +100%. As the blog post stated, at the end of the day we are really just going to see a bit of nice slight subtle movement so that match-ups are less stale, and eventually ratings are more accurate.

Jon

If you do not like the kittenumptions then maybe your team should use their kitten heads and not use this as a quote in your news release: “Is Kaineng better than Jade Quarry? Before we never knew, but soon they might get a chance to prove it.”

If it is so absurd do not use it as your kitten example.

sparklevision.8109:

BUT, as Jared says, now, if an undermanned/underskilled server comes up against a big fella, they can still gain points simply by continually pushing and not getting utterly stomped, WHICH I think people will be more inclined to try because it is a new, fresh matchup, rather than fighting ‘that same unbeatable server over and over’.

All in all, I think this is the best system ArenaNet can implement.. but.. let’s find out

Who cares about your rating points? The only reason most people even give them a second thought at the moment is to get your server to a spot where matches will be fun and entertaining. The vast majority of players have no interest in climbing the ranks, they are content with the types of matches they get now or they would have long since transferred with all the others that shoe-horned themselves onto T1 servers.

I agree with Jared numbers, but in a system where very few are trying to actually climb ranks it has no meaning. Ranking = coverage, it is not something anyone assigns intrinsic value to.

Actinotus.6410:

Niim.9260:

I am sure the blowout matches are going to be super fun. The whole JQ vs KN quote is enough to show that ANET has absolutely no idea what is going on. No one enjoys a match-up where one or more of the teams are being steam rolled.

Looking through that list they gave the matches seem pretty competitive on the whole, and probably would have happened eventually anyway (except the one with Kn). For example:

JQ DB FA
TC Mag SoS
SBI EB YB

Likely winners perhaps JQ, TC and YB, but it wouldn’t be guaranteed and won’t it be fun finding out?

You think a match of TC vs Mag vs SoS is not guaranteed and it will be fun? Fun for who? You realize that this game is all about coverage right?

Mayoken.9851:

Looks like we get to fight different opponents.
Awesome. Excited for new match ups.
DB go hard this next week !

Yes, I am sure blow-out matches will be uber fun, specially when KN goes against JQ, that will make a great match right?

I am sure the blowout matches are going to be super fun. The whole JQ vs KN quote is enough to show that ANET has absolutely no idea what is going on. No one enjoys a match-up where one or more of the teams are being steam rolled.

Jhawk.1360:

FA had a community meeting last night and we believe that the split/ leaving of VK and leaving of BT will not effect us too drastically.

I think Lanimal has a better grasp of our community then those at the meeting.

Remix.2086:

My guild is always small scale roaming in t2 US. We NEVER have a guardian. Mostly DPS warriors and we do fine lol. Its all about skill, if you guys blow, then roll guardians lol. Ele’s are just an annoyance, they always have been, just thieves with 0 stealth lol.

When roaming and you run into another roaming squad, and they’re nubs with a guardian, depending on what the other classes are, you either kill the guard first or last. Like if they opposing group has a couple thieves, it’s easier to kill the guard first. Then the thieves get to play cat n mouse and eventually run away lol.

The other day we wiped a 15-20 man group with 10. because of our warrior set up lol. So they were by briar on the bridge from the ruins, and me and another guy were on the opposite side, while the rest of our group went around the ruins to flank. When they were in position, I ran head first into them and took all the focus, while our death from above warrior jumped down and knocked em all down, then we proceeded with 4 hundred blades and 4 whirlwind attacks lol.

SO, no you don;t need a guardian. it definitely helps. but in my opinion, guardians are just people who make too many mistakes to play warrior. guardians are a much for forgiving class lol.

If you are content to fight 10v15, then yea go the kitten comp you describe. If you like 5v20-30 then you might want to try something else.

For a five man built to fight small zergs I recommend 2 support and 3 dps/utility, what that mix is depends on the people you have and what they like to play and how you as a group work together. What is important is synergy and consistency over time. Play the same classes, tweak and adjust as you find things that work and do not work, and most any combination is going to work, imo. Most important is your play caller and initiator. A good play caller that understands battle momentum, movement and a quick thinker is more impacting then your class makeup.

I like a guardian and ele on support, think they work well together and provide a lot to the group. A pure DPS warrior is my preference along with a mesmer, last spot is flexible, though I prefer another warrior personally, but any good strong multi-target DPS will work. This is a rough guide though, we switch things up depending on what we are up against. Facing large zergs (40+) we might run more ele’s for huge aoe damage. A necro is awesome in a lot of situations. Just depends on the night.

In the end build with what you have and have fun, anything is better then watching TV while you zerg.

Shezu Tsukai.8291:

FA has a lot of PvEers that are enjoying the large amount of rare+ drops in Southsun right now.

I was kinda surprised. I always just assumed that TC would have a larger PvE population, but there was an overflow for Southsun more often on FA then TC, at least for when I was playing.

Evalana.5480:

Niim.9260:

Evalana.5480:

So, TVB has arrived on FA

Welcome aboard! Hope you enjoy your stay! ♥

So when TC wouldn’t pay for TVB’s transfer they came to FA instead?

Well, we didn’t pay for them either.

That’s good

Evalana.5480:

So, TVB has arrived on FA

Welcome aboard! Hope you enjoy your stay! ♥

So when TC wouldn’t pay for TVB’s transfer they came to FA instead?

Sharpoon.8197:

I think what he means to say is that the score and video has already been posted multiple times on this thread. Constant re-posting makes it look like RE has something to brag about. Though that’s probably not the case, it can look like it.

I assumed it was re-matches and just posting the new results.

PS – you were right, it was all one match, gave him too much credit

Rawnoodles.1398:

Niim.9260:

Rawnoodles.1398:

Official : RE vs VeT

• Video now up!
• 15 v 15 GvG

Why do you keep posting the score? I have done a lot of GvG’s and never seen anyone so disrespectful, which is counter to what GvG’s are about.

??? Its not Zerg vs Zerg. When two guilds agree to gvg they have every right to post the official scoring and videos. In fact, people do want to know the scores therefore your argument is invalid. Clearly you don’t do GvG’s right. We lost to VoTF, they posted a score and we didn’t complain. We actually posted a video of our loss in respects to the match. Point and case .

WTF does ZvZ have to do with the discussion? How does one do GvG wrong? Having the right to post scores and doing so are different things. Post your video, say who won the best of seven, why do you need to say more? Sportsmanship, look it up.

Rawnoodles.1398:

Official : RE vs VeT

• Video now up!
• 15 v 15 GvG

Why do you keep posting the score? I have done a lot of GvG’s and never seen anyone so disrespectful, which is counter to what GvG’s are about.

Mister Mustard.7203:

Who are you, me, or anyone else to judge what these people choose to do?

Who are you to judge the merits of what other people judge?

ANET tried to do ranking, sucked horribly, and then did what most of us have been saying since the start, and a lesson from DAoC, and just provide the data and let fans take it from there.

styx.7294:

Honestly, I laughed at that skill too ‘cause I don’t roam anymore but then some guildies were like “I took it for camps when I roam” and that made think better.

But if you are out roaming and taking camps solo why would you care about the bit of guard damage when the camps are easy enough to solo without the ability? It’s not like the damage reduction is even noticeable at this point. I have never spent a single WXP point on any of my toons. I do not use siege enough to care about it and none of the other abilities are impacting enough for me to even bother with.

I am fine with the downed state system, what I disagree with strongly in WvW is rally.

I also think you shouldn’t be doing damage in downed state in wvw, you should be laying there trying to heal yourself up, with one stomp break, but I can live with the damage, rally kittens me off.

styx.7294:

I see oil fired maybe once a week right now. Who knows what it’ll be like months from now with balance changes and what not. Hell, maybe this oil mastery makes gives the oil a shield that blocks damage while you use it. Maybe this is part of a plan to make oil counter rams instead of arrow carts. Don’t worry so much.

Defense against guards can help solo camps, if that’s your style.

Yes if oil mastery makes it so you can actually use oil when there is stacks of aoe fields on it, then it would be a worthwhile change, but personally I would rather see keep/tower walls made so they are protective for those attacking from them, so that people can use their class abilities rather then stand around spamming 1-3 on an AC.

Who needs help soloing camps and is 50ish less damage an attack doing to make or break your attempt? Even if they made it super powerful were it reduced damage by 50% and made you immune to all their cc/effects, would it be worth taking over other stuff?