Guild Wars 2

We should be careful on how we Asess strength. Sure other classes do some things better. That doesn’t mean those things aren’t Guardian strengths. Effectiveness isn’t really a measure either.

For example: Our speed is not our strength. Because other classes are faster? No, it’s because we need to be so specialized to be fast that it takes up resources from our other abilities.

Another example: Aegis IS a strength we possess, even with the blind change. No one can debate any other profession has as much access to Aegis as we do.

The original list is pretty accurate, though I’m not sure I would put regeneration up there.

HP food?

I like your gear load and your state Vit is probably about average. When I want more HP, I usually have a Vitality weapon I can swap too.

A ‘Combust’ option would be interesting but I wouldn’t want to see it happen on Active VoJ. I think for something like that, you would want to apply burning first, then active your combust. Sounds to me like a great replacement for Torch #5.

I will admit I never taken notice of the other professions crit/CDamage synergies (my curiosity is peaked). What I think of that lack of synergy for Guardians?

I think that disassociation between CDamage and ‘other stuff’ is actually part of what makes condition damage advantageous for Guardians, in terms of freedom to build and choose weapons and in terms of CDamage ‘stuff’ developments coming out of Anet.

I do think that if there is a possibility for CDamage to become a more prominent damage I would still not want it linked to other offensive stats or weapons. That would kill the diversity. I don’t really want to see a situation where the best condition damage build means you take weapon X along with armor set Y and a minimum of 40 trait points in various stuff.

If I were to suggest an area where CDamage improvement could be made without targeting specific traits or weapons, it would be to implement a new ‘condition damage multiplier’ stat or perhaps the current crit damage stat could do that somehow in a dual role?

I could also see a situation where running two specific conditions (burning + chill) or if a condition is running in a field or while a finisher is being performed, some added effect comes into play.

CMF.5461:

Beyond taking radiance for the obvious benefit of precision and a few traits of choice, it has horrible synergy because it gives us condition damage.

Isn’t this just more of a ’condition damage sucks on Guardian ’statement than anything? I find that Radiance gives great synergies if you use condition damage.

As a condition damage user, I find the stat spread really great … I’m going for condition damage anyways and at least Rad 15. The precision is just free damage for me. I think if your perspective is that condition damage is garbage, then anything related to will be a waste. If your perspective is a little more open minded, you find that Radiance makes a little more sense.

Not sure what to tell you … at this point you don’t even have much of a build to work with. At level 15, I simply max out my power, regardless of class. That’s enough to get through content my own level. I guess you could go with Valour 5 to give you aegis at 50% health but I don’t think you should be dying that much.

Like Forty Seven Ninjas.6982:

I’m indestructible, why in the world would I need to get away?

Bump. If you aren’t building within the parameters of the class, you won’t be happy. If Guardian mobility sucks, people should stop trying to make it better and play to the class strengths.

I doubt any person is going to have a plausible argument that convince the devs that their fundamental concept for a profession is ‘wrong’ and give them the solution to fix it.

I think if people did that, they would find our sub par mobility is actually keeping us from getting beat around with the nerf bat.

Wow, borrowing from Austin Powers … do those things come warning stickers?

Daecollo.9578:

… 5 guardians with AH/Might on Crit builds can pretty much never die, even with 40 people beating on them. (as seen in videos.)

Wow, that’s quite the critical mass of people that have no clue what they are doing.

Anyways, I never really got the hype on AH. It’s OK in some cases. It’s certainly not in every build for every kind of content. I think the more experienced Guardians already figured this out. I don’t think it’s what’s ‘wrong’ with Valour.

morrolan.9608:

tolunart.2095:

This is exactly what I’m talking about – why do you think you should have these things without putting in the work to get them?

But one of the points of this thread is that TP flippers don’t actually have to put much work in themselves.

I think that’s a very ignorant point of view. TP flippers are indeed working to get that money, it’s just not the work that most players associate with obtaining stuff in an MMO.

If it wasn’t much work as some are claiming, then it would make complaining people look stupid because with a minimum of work, anyone could make lots of gold flipping.

So let’s be clear … people are complaining, not everyone makes gold flipping … looks like it’s work to me.

juno.1840:

@Obtena: If you have to repost your goods every 2 or 3 days because of a duration limit, then you are posting more often than in the current model.

You can do that now, The difference is that currently, it’s a choice. Your method would make it forced.

That still doesn’t change the fact that you can’t claim it would lower priced through competition because the market is a reflection of people’s behaviour.

The real source of the problem isn’t powertraders on the TP, it’s poor, ignorant people that complain ….

Maybe they should simply not give poor people access to the market and make them farm everything so they can’t complain about ‘dishonest people stealing from them on the market’.

juno.1840:

The logic is more posts == more competition by players that are actually trying to sell.

This is what i was getting at … so if more posts == more competition, how does limiting posting increase competition as well as you claim in the original post? That’s a contradiction

I could speculate that if you are going to limit posting through some scheme, players will hoard stuff until it’s worth it for them to use their precious post limits. That’s not going to make things cheaper. Of course, that’s just one of hundreds of behavioural impacts such a thing would cause and there is no definitive way you can conclude post limits would result in any predictable effect.

Maybe this is just crazy talk but I don’t think you have the behaviour of market posters nailed down well enough to conclude your suggestion will have the desired impact.

Zylonite.5913:

Obtena.7952:

MMO rule #45 – If you don’t like the content, don’t do it.

There is no reason to complain about new content, EVER!

If you can’t listen to people’s opinion then please don’t comment. This is a public forum and everyone is free to discuss their thoughts and opinions about whatever. If you don’t have anything useful to share then please move back to your cave…

Oh I listened. I just don’t understand how anyone could think new content is a bad thing, ever. Maybe you don’t like the new content, that’s fair. Ignore it. Complain you don’t like what’s in it … but to complain that a game company is continually developing a game … erf That’s just nonsense. If the content is too frequent for you, skip some. It’s not a job. You don’t HAVE to do it.

It’s like complaining that you love cats and you want to hug them all but you can’t because there are too many. Should we kill the equivalent of huggable cats in game development so there aren’t so much new content?

My problem with necro is that there are great builds and garbage builds. I haven’t found anything in between. Unfortunately, the build I would like to play is a garbage one.

Um, posting time limits would actually reduce competition on the TP. I don’t get the logic presented (well, there wasn’t any!)

MMO rule #45 – If you don’t like the content, don’t do it.

There is no reason to complain about new content, EVER!

I used to like sword but it has such weak linkages to all the other fun stuff that I stopped using it. No symbol, no boon sort of kill it for me. On the flip side, your not tied down to traits to enhance those things depending on your swap. Still, I found it got boring to make builds with and use.

Seems that the runes are going to be less effective with a meditation build. The boons you are getting are Might, Aegis and Vigour. What did you intent to take for Honor 10? If you going with those runes, I’m assuming Wrathful Spirit?

Two things I get from this thread:

1. It’s our ‘burst’. That’s actually a pretty good. I believe classes should have access to a bursty damage combo. I think in this case it’s unfortunate that our burst would be such an easy read “Oh look, he’s got a torch … BURST INC”.

2. People think torch is needed for a condition damage build? A condition damage build can use VoJ as the method to apply the burn as well without the need for torch.

Anyways, thanks for the replies. These experiences confirm some thinking about Torch I have been doing.

If a mob drops the T5 mat, it can drop the T6 with a lower chance. Example:

Skelks drop fangs and blood. Icebrood mobs drop claws. Risen spiders and elementals drop dust. These mobs have a good concentration in the zones where they exists and therefore, they can be farmed. I’m sure I’m missing some other mobs that can be farmed for the other mats. Your only limitation seems to be anti-farming code/RNG or whatever you want to call it.

IIRC, you get an average of 5-6 T6 mats from 250 heavy moldy bags. Don’t try to get your mats this way. Selling your bags at 3 silver each means you can buy a T6 mat every 7-8 bags. You decide if that’s a good tradeoff.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Why it would be OP to give us new damaging condition… aactually there are more than enough players that are discrediting condition guardian just because the only damaging condi we have is burning…

I don’t feel it’s that black and white. I know Foofad is doing alot of work to quantify condition damage on Guardian. That’s good and I’m sure it’s going to show that IF someone were to make a tradeoff from a certain build to a condition damage stat build, there would be an overall net loss of X (X will be damage, defense, whatever etc…) I don’t doubt it … I actually USE the build that people think sucks that makes all those uneven sacrifices.

For me, the most valuable takeaway from his work will be to be able to make a claim that adding a second damaging condition within a certain damage range would balance this uneven sacrifice. Now, the following is just speculation but I don’t actually think that the damage range needed to balance is very high. ln otherwords, I don’t believe that the sacrifices are so uneven that a second condition is actually warranted. I might have to eat those words when the numbers come out but then again, numbers don’t always reflect other aspects that are advantageous by focusing on a CDamage build.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

@Obtena how Tormenting evil creatures would not fit Holy Guardians of light?
Spanish Inquisition – do it seems familiar?
little more conditions (damaging one) would be great for guardians – since I’m specing in burning/support giving additional conditions that would have some use from my condi damage is always welcome

I think of ‘torment’ as something that would be more applicable to necro/mesmer. If I had to ‘invent’ a new condition for Guardian, it would be ‘Wrath’. I don’t try to conceptually associate Guardians to Holiness or Light … For me Guardian is more neutral … it’s about tapping into divine or supernatural powers related to ‘knightly virtues’.

Don’t think I disagree with you though. I do think it would be super neat (and a little OP) to give Guardians access to another condition that does some kind of damage but whoever develops that would have to be very aware.

I would like to see a virtue that really gives us a reason to trait beyond Virtue 5

Anti-knockback Virtue (not sure how to say it … a Virtue that acts like theives Scorpion Wire)
Immobilize Virtue (too obvious)
Stun Virtue (too OP?)

Somethings we never seen in GW2 yet.

Damage Absorbing Virtue
More ‘On hit’ effects similar to retaliation

I don’t feel that Torment fits Guardians or any other melee class at all. I don’t see what problem torment addresses for a Guardian. If people have to choose torment damage over getting facepounded by a slow moving melee class, I’m pretty sure I know what one they will take.

I would advise you do what you want, but make sure it’s within your limits as a player. Not everyone is capable of soloing dungeons in full zerker gear like a few lurking super Guardians will tell you they can. :p Personally, I transitioned from a full Clerics (YUCK!) to a more balanced damage/support build. It doesn’t do everything but it does alot. I think that if you are knowledgeable with the content you are doing and the class, you can start with a mix of zerker and PVT gear, not need AHEM traiting and see how you want to modify that as you play it.

For Team content, I personally like to spread my stats out over everything with specific targets for various stats (400+ healing power, 30% crit rate, etc…) because that’s what I’m comfortable with and what seems to work with the various PUG’s I’m rolling. Maybe if you team with a dedicated group, you will find a more targeted build depending on how capable they are.

A serious question. What competitive builds are using torch? I know it’s fun to blow fire at people but you get so much offensive capability with main hand, what is the need for more on the offhand? Through my playing, I have yet to find a genuine purpose for this weapon that adds value to my playing. Do we really need another way to apply burning and remove conditions?

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Faulty logic post of the day. Crafters are ignored in this forum, and other areas of the game are not. Some sections of these forums are extremely active with dev interactions, sPvP for instance. WvW is not so active with only one or devs answering, but not even daily. This section gets no answers. We are being ignored.

Fun fact: A lack of dev posts does not indicate crafters are ignored by the devs even if other sections are very active with dev posts. This section gets lot of answers, even if they aren’t directly from devs.

Romo.3709:

Obtena.7952:

Romo.3709:

Then with that in mind, why answer ANY question on ANY board?

because everyone is free to make posts and attempt to help each other. Just don’t have some unreasonable expectation that it will be a dev that answers your questions. It’s not their job.

There are some questions in this forum that no player can answer. Thus they are directly addressed towards the devs.

Maybe, but this isn’t a very good reasoning to expect devs to answer them. Part of mystique of playing MMO’s is that not everything is laid bare for players to benefit from optimizing their activities. MF works this way and I’m certain their is some parts of whatever crafters what to know that works this way as well. Everything else, people can figure out and share themselves. Again, this is simply about what value there is for a dev to answer questions about crafting on the forum vs. doing what they are paid to do.

Sorry, I’m not being obtuse here but I think the whole premise that crafters are ‘ignored’ because devs don’t post in the crafting forum enough is ridiculous. Observe how that doesn’t carry over to other forum sections.

Nightingale.9714:

RNG on in-game stuff is one thing but we’re talking about REAL money here!

You see, the problem with that is you knew before hand it was RNG. Yes it’s RL money and the fact that you decided it was worth the risk to buy gems and spend them that way. Your choice. There are lots of other things you can buy with gems that aren’t RNG. Stick to those.

me too. let me know when you find it

Adam Chattaway.6418:

… i thought a guardian with full healing gear would be decent…

it is decent … if you only want to heal. Unfortunately, healing isn’t the primary method for mitigating damage in GW2. Therefore, healing overall, regardless of profession is pretty lackluster.

Romo.3709:

Then with that in mind, why answer ANY question on ANY board?

because everyone is free to make posts and attempt to help each other. Just don’t have some unreasonable expectation that it will be a dev that answers your questions. It’s not their job.

Buttercup.5871:

Huh? Players with valid questions regarding crafting don’t want to “feel good”, they want their question(s) answered!

Wanting and needing questions answers are two different things and I don’t see questions posted here that devs need to answer. Wanting questions answered when they don’t need to be answered by devs IS about making players feel good. Let’s be honest about the motives here. You even imply feeling unimportant by the lack of dev interaction in the original post.

Again, what value does devs answering questions on forums have other than making players feel warm and fuzzy? Is that more value as opposed to them doing what they are paid to?

Romo.3709:

The idea is to acknowledge that they’re even reading this part of the forum, because it frankly feels VERY abandoned.

Since we are being frank, I think it’s silliness for players to be assured by devs that they are ‘paying attention’ through posting. Again, what value is added doing this, other than making you feel good?

I think there is some quantitative work going on that is characterizing condition damage use on Guardian but on gut feeling, most people don’t think it’s worth giving it the slightest attention. I feel that there are some advantages to Cond. Damage that give it a place in our ‘viable’ builds. I don’t think this is the place to discuss them.

Specifically for your question, I don’t think any party will get mad at you using any build as long as you aren’t reckless or useless (Condition build won’t make you either of those things.)

I can’t advise you focus on a condition damage build so early or with limited experience.

That doesn’t mean it’s broken. It simply means the roll is done on a very large number.

Romo.3709:

But wouldn’t you better have them making stuff that we the gamers want?

What does that have to do with devs responding on the forums? Nothing I think. They don’t need to respond to threads to make stuff we want.

Gasoline.2570:

LilMcGinley.3890:

Gold -> Gems is PLAYER controlled, not ANet/NCSoft.

What is this universe you live in? I chuckle everytime I see someone actually believing this.

Because you believe the opposite without an actual understanding of how it works? Yeah, I think that’s funny too.

I think the key point here is to recognize the business model of the game. It’s not subscription based. I think people QQing about the gold to gem conversion tend to forget they don’t actually PAY to play this game, aside from the initial outlay to buy it.

The gold to gem thing is actually pretty smart. Anet wants your cash. If you don’t want to give it to them, using the gold to gems is a great sink. It’s win win, for everyone.

I don’t get the problem .. I’m going to get my achievement and I never attempted Obsidian Kite. Go get some of the other ones to finish.

Bad Thread is bad. Lots of ill will here. We’ve been trolled hard. /lock please.

I’m on your wavelength. The right look and colour is so important to not look like a clown in this game.

I don’t like the contrast you get with the Sun catcher. Your choice for placement of white gold on the wind catcher is eyecatching but I prefer your all celestial look because the eye is drawn to the proper pieces of interest … the wind effect and the radiant parts.

Softspoken.2410:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

lets count how many stacks of other conditions is needed to have same dmg as from burning.
and then lets count how easilly we can have 100% burning uptime on enemies and how difficult they have to keep these stacks on us….

5-6 stacks of bleeding, depending on how much condition damage is involved.

I always took this at face value when people said it but just to check, I went to gw2buildcraft and checked it.

If you simply take any profession with no gear, you get this:

Bleeding Damage/stack 43/s
Burning Damage 328/s
Poison Damage 84/s

With my full carrion build, I get:

Bleeding Damage/stack 111/s
Burning Damage 672/s
Poison Damage 222/s

The interesting part for me is that Bleed and Poison have the same multiplier for a given condition damage value but burning is different (and lower!) Confusion is also scaled different. I wonder what the reasoning is for that.

MF works but remember, Fortune kites are rare. The increase you get from an already low drop rate is still perceptibly low. MF works well when it upgrades whites to blues and blues to greens (I almost never get a white when in my MF setup).

As for these fortunes, best advice is to kill densely packed mobs in the lowest level zones that you can kill with 1 shots. Even yellow mobs drop them so keep that in mind when looking for a farm spot.

The mace coefficient is around 0.5 IIRC. It’s pretty weak. I don’t think the staff faired much better. Foofad did a whole thread on this somewhere.

It’s been my experience that devs aren’t really active on the forums. Of the games I’ve played, Anet ones are on the higher end of activity. I would rather have them making stuff than making replys on the forums anyways.

Ezeriel.9574:

You people make no sense. ….

Awesome, we don’t make sense but you don’t think anything but AHEM build is viable? Truthfully, AHEM build is not the only build that’s viable but it may be the only build that YOU can play that’s viable.

You know, if you took as long into searching and reading the forum for builds that aren’t AHEM as you did making this thread, you would be much further ahead in your education instead of telling experienced Guardians that non-AHEM builds don’t work.

/me takes a sniff …

I knew it, smells like whine thread, looks like a whine thread

LAWL. You got people crying because stuff is too abundant and worthless, you got people crying because stiff is too rare and expensive. Where do you fit?

Liu.4751:

But I explained why guardians are the most underpowered class because of mobility ….

Maybe you did. That doesn’t mean you are right. I know very capable PVP Guardians … they don’t complain about mobility. Obviously what you think and the practical experience of good PVP Guardians has a disconnect somewhere. Seems to me it’s a L2P thing.