I think the most offensive thing about this thread is that you’ve made a relation between there customer service and a business decision on pricing. That’s just ludicrous.
That’s the thing though … no long standing customers have been ignored … Anet continues to service those people.
How? new customers get this price break, what do we get?
New customers getting a price break does NOT mean long standing old customers are ignored. What do you get? That’s a pretty obtuse question. You got access to the game since the time you bought it.
Listen, you’re argument is pretty ridiculous. If you’re intention is to draw some attention to the fact that you think your entitled to some reimbursement because vanilla GW2 is F2P, you’re just clueless.
You paid to get access to the game at the point you had paid for it. So you’ve had access for the game longer than someone who got it for free yesterday. That isn’t even taking into account that their free access is restricted.
No…
Wait … are you saying you didn’t pay to get access to the game? I’m pretty sure you did, otherwise you couldn’t play it. Wouldn’t be much of a point in buying the game if you couldn’t get access to play it don’t you think?
I didn’t buy early access, I bought the game, there is a difference.
If there is a difference, you’re going to have to do a better job explaining it because early access or not, everyone paid to get access to the game regardless of when they bought it. Therefore, you got extra value over someone who will get F2P.
Yes, we all pay for access for the same amount of content, so why is it that we have to pay so much more? Once again, that we are paying for the amount of time is irrevlevent, because we are promised to buy and play for free. so our time is and never was being charged, only acess to said product was.
I’m not arguing we pay for the amount of time. I’m arguing that we pay to get access. Why do we pay more than F2P? Because we all wanted to play the game when it came out. Yes, it might surprise you but it’s very reasonable to pay for that priviledge. If it wasn’t, you wouldn’t have done it in the first place.
Here is a tip for the Entitled generation: Fair does not mean equal.
You paid to get access to the game at the point you had paid for it. So you’ve had access for the game longer than someone who got it for free yesterday. That isn’t even taking into account that their free access is restricted.
No…
Wait … are you saying you didn’t pay to get access to the game? I’m pretty sure you did, otherwise you couldn’t play it. Wouldn’t be much of a point in buying the game if you couldn’t get access to play it don’t you think?
I didn’t buy early access, I bought the game, there is a difference.
If there is a difference, you’re going to have to do a better job explaining it because early access or not, everyone paid to get access to the game regardless of when they bought it. Therefore, you got extra value over someone who will get F2P.
You paid to get access to the game at the point you had paid for it. So you’ve had access for the game longer than someone who got it for free yesterday. That isn’t even taking into account that their free access is restricted.
No…
Wait … are you saying you didn’t pay to get access to the game? I’m pretty sure you did, otherwise you couldn’t play it. Wouldn’t be much of a point in buying the game if you couldn’t get access to play it don’t you think?
Its a matter of principle and fairness, of equal worth. content of the same value should be of equal worth. players who invest more money and time in a game, should recieve services equal to the resources they put in. if I’m to pay in more, I should recieve more. if I’m going to recieve the same amount, I shouldn’t have to pay more for it. I’m not saying we vets are entitled to more things then new players, but we certainly arnt entitled to less. and less is what we are getting, THATS the problem.
We are not getting less than new players.
Less value for our money >.>
Nope. The extra value you get over new players is the amount of time you’ve spent ingame while you have owned the game and they haven’t.
+ all the 40 updates + log-in rewards (wich stays exclusive to B2P)
No, all they have to do is buy the lastest expansion and they get all those 40+ updates for free. and as for the amount of time we spend playing the game, they don’t regulate that, we are paying for the opertunity to play, not for each and every hour we play, that’s why its buy to play and not subscription. however much we do or don’t play has nothing to do with the cost. otherwise someone who can only play once a week should have to pay less than someone who plays every day if we follow your reasoning. we pay to play, and howmuch we play is up to us, its not attached to the deal. so it has no relevence.
Did someone who paid $50 to buy the game new upon release and then $50 more for hearts of thorns as soon as it came out and then stopped playing three months after that get more value for their money then someone who didn’t buy it until after heart of thorns was released, and paid $50 for twice as much content and played it for 6 years then after? should he get a refund because he didn’t play as much, because following your reasoning, he paid for his time to play, but didn’t use that time?
We pay for the game, not our time, your arguement is invalid
No, you pay for access to play the game, which includes the software to do so. … and you did so for three more years than anyone that will get it on the F2P deal. Therefore, argument is quite relevant.
Its a matter of principle and fairness, of equal worth. content of the same value should be of equal worth. players who invest more money and time in a game, should recieve services equal to the resources they put in. if I’m to pay in more, I should recieve more. if I’m going to recieve the same amount, I shouldn’t have to pay more for it. I’m not saying we vets are entitled to more things then new players, but we certainly arnt entitled to less. and less is what we are getting, THATS the problem.
We are not getting less than new players.
Less value for our money >.>
Nope. The extra value you get over new players is the amount of time you’ve spent ingame while you have owned the game and they haven’t.
The comparison here isn’t with other professions so yes, medi is very good.
This would be a good point… If we were playing a game with exclusively Guardians.
We’re not. We have 8 other classes to account for, and yes, they ALL need to be accounted for when working with balancing.
… Adjusting the medi heals on Guardian only gives devs MORE incentive to put other goodness elsewhere in the Guardian traits to maintain the balance among classes AND provide build diversity.
If you want to have more diverse builds (for PVP I’m assuming), Medi builds need a nerf so that other areas can be developed since right now, everything is just balanced around this Medi build pillar.
Question makes little sense in GW2 … If Anet sticks with their game concept, no class will have any more of a role in raids than they do in dungeons. Frankly, the only real interesting think I can think of that a 10 man raid offers than a 5 man raid doesn’t is more ‘double-task’ encounters e.g. A few people do THAT while the rest do THIS. If they don’t, bad things happen. If there are ‘roles’, they likely won’t be defined by some class ability; it will be defined by some generic skill that pretty much everyone has … timing your heal or standing in a specific spot or staying out of melee range. Garbage like that.
So apparently Legendary armor will be available for players who like to raid, which is great for those players, but what about all those players who have zero interest in raiding but who want to earn Legendary armor? What methods will be available for them? Well we be able to earn armor pieces through the Legendary Precursor crafting system that’s being added?
Keep in mind that a large chunk of GW2’s population is here to get away from raiding type games.
Doesn’t matter I suspect: if you don’t raid, you probably don’t need it, just like if you don’t do fractals, there is no sensible reason to want Ascended. If you’re here to get away from raiding games, don’t raid.
Brutaly is right and I’ve seen it time and again in all kinds of MMO’s. As long as Medi is THAT good, that’s all we gonna get and everything else is going to be balanced around that point, ensuring that any build where you don’t use Valor will be subpar in PVP. If you’re satisfied with that, keep denying it needs to be changed. If you’re not, you see why it’s a problem.
I can almost agree with you, but one problem is that Medi is not THAT good. It is just good, and that makes it a better offensive build than our other options.
Regardless of what level of good you want to put it at, it’s still our standard and everything is still balanced around it. Therefore …
The name is god awful and ridiculous and someone at ANET needs to get fired.
Maybe players that think it’s god awful and ridiculous get banned from the game instead. It’s about as nonsensical as firing someone for elite name quality that’s already inline with the vanilla name quality we already have.
Brutaly is right and I’ve seen it time and again in all kinds of MMO’s. As long as Medi is THAT good, that’s all we gonna get and everything else is going to be balanced around that point, ensuring that any build where you don’t use Valor will be subpar in PVP. If you’re satisfied with that, keep denying it needs to be changed. If you’re not, you see why it’s a problem.
It’s either dps or survivability. You can’t have both at max, you’re forced to do hybrid builds to have both and give up a bit of them. The concept is perfect.
Or do you actually think that bunker Guardians do dps?
Daredevil is an evasion tank if you spec into dodges. You can also spec into damage however. Not going to survive much more then now, but you still have stealth and 1 more dodge.
I don’t think I’m asking for both. You’re comparison doesn’t make much sense to me. bunker Guardians give up damage for PASSIVE defense. No problem because I always have passive defenses and I can still apply whatever offense I have at the same time.
That’s NOT what daredevil gives you. You get frequent but not always available ACTIVE defense instead of applying offense. That’s a pretty crap deal if you ask me. Sure, there’s a daggers on dodge attack some condi. but basically that tells me if you don’t just want to dance, your traits are pre-determined by the elite. Yuck.
None of the core concepts introduced for ANY of the elite specs are going to change to something different; you’re stuck with everything you see – LB, traps, traits and name. If you think any of that can change at this point, you’re not thinking sensible as players, nor is it sensible way to react as a devs.
1. It doesn’t matter if you pay attention to the meta or not; you can make a condition build with DH because our damage conditions aren’t sourced from weapons.
2. DH is a PVP spec so if you even try to talk about using it in PVE, you could care less about your performance or potential. There is no potential ripped out of DH because traps lost a single bleed stack from a crap adept trait.
Just because you have decided it is a pvp spec doesn’t meant it couldn’t have PvE potential as well (and why shouldn’t it?)
Because Anet didn’t design it to be? I mean, feel free to use it in a PVE spec … just like if you want to wear nomads or something. Up to you. In fact, I would love for someone to show me a PVE build with a DH spec that would be even remotely comparable to anything we see being used now. Not to argue, but to be genuinely proven wrong so I have something to look forward to when DH comes out for PVE.
The cool factor of dodging everywhere will wear off once you realize you’re not killing anyone doing your little dodge dance. Did the class get any DoT’s or big bursty skills on long cooldowns to make up for it? Time to BWE.
Can people at least come up with an ORIGINAL and UNIQUE name before complaining?
I bet all the names you guys have in mind were already taken by other games.l
We were not asked to come up with better names. But just off the top of my head: slayer, scoundrel, shadow, vexxer, vindictive, assassin, Grenth’s choosen, Hand of Grenth, Grenth’s Shadow, haunts, Bones, demonicons, corporate lawyers. . . .
I am really glad that you’re not the one coming up with names then as to me almost all of those were really bad. Also ORIGINAL and UNIQUE. All most all of those weren’t Original or Unique
Man, there’s no need for that level of ugly. But, feel free to show me the ones off the top of your head, so I can criticize them too.
I think you miss the point … it’s not as easy to come up with the ‘cool’ names people want to see as they think it is.
It’s going to be hard to make a valid point if it’s not inline with the reality of the current game state … Guardians using burn very successfully in PVP as well as the burning build for PVE meta. Didn’t rely on a weak bit of bleed from a single skill for it either. Imagine.
Based on the pathetic amount of conditions DH had in it, it never did. In all honesty, if anyone doesn’t think they can still make a condition build with DH spec’ed, I don’t think they are paying attention to the current meta.
A couple of things. First of all, some of us don’t care so much about the meta. There’s a difference between what works pretty well and what is completely optimal. There’s also a big difference between what works in PvE vs PvP. I think you have PvP in mind, and you might be right that few players would have gone for a condi DH build (which in and of itself is useful feedback), but that doesn’t mean it might not have worked just fine for PvE content before the recently announced changes. The point here is that what modest potential DH might have had (which could have been increased for all play modes with different changes) instead got ripped out of it pretty hard.
1. It doesn’t matter if you pay attention to the meta or not; you can make a condition build with DH because our damage conditions aren’t sourced from weapons.
2. DH is a PVP spec so if you even try to talk about using it in PVE, you could care less about your performance or potential. There is no potential ripped out of DH because traps lost a single bleed stack from a crap adept trait.
Also I hate how Dragon Hunter is no longer condi friendly, it’s just another Zeal clone now. No more bleeds, no more burning, I thought one of the goals of the Dragonhunter was to make condi guards viable? This trait line is loosing its unique flavour.
I concur with this^^
I ran a rampager’s build (would’ve loved to try Sin if I had the gear available) during the last bwe and thought it had some promise but now with these recent changes it doesn’t make much sense to put condi into a DH build:/
Based on the pathetic amount of conditions DH had in it, it never did. In all honesty, if anyone doesn’t think they can still make a condition build with DH spec’ed, I don’t think they are paying attention to the current meta.
There is no correlation between more BWE’s and a class becoming better … in fact that would be nonsense to think such a thing since the tests are MOSTLY for feedback on the elites.
Therefore, arguments that say Rangers need more BWE because it’s bad … just stop it.
Other games going free to play meet the same thing. Bots, bots, bots, bots, bots, trolls trolls trolls, people with no feeling for the game because it is free just flows in and ruin the games for those that played it for a long while and those will start to leave one by one because the game they were used to and loved are now full of i don’t give a kitten-players.
I don’t see how this will be different for GW2. I whish they think this through one more time, if this is truely what they are going to do. GW2 have had a really great comunity so far, i don’t want that to change.
Other games going F2P is usually an indication that they have one foot in the grave… I think that’s probably the most uncomfortable part for me.
So lets just call this a trial. I like the word trial, F2P not so much.
Assuming this is true, we can’t predict what motivates Anet to make vanilla F2P. Usually, it’s sub based games giving F2P to entice people to sub up. In this instance, it could be to encourage sales on HoT but then again, they don’t even know how much HoT they will sell, so it would be premature for them to assume it will be ‘not enough’.
Frankly, if they have got their ROI back from the sales of vanilla GW2, this makes ALOT of sense to me; get people playing for free (because they met their expectations on revenue from vanilla) and then they buy from gemstore.
Dragonhunter, Berserker, Daredevil… who is coming up with these names?!? Dragonhunter and Berserker are so generic, might as well have been from any lame fantasy game. Daredevil.. someone watched the show too much!
Same people that came up with the awe-inspiring ‘Thief, Warrior, Engineer’.
You people have misconceptions about the ‘quality’ of the names the elites are getting when really, they are EXACTLY inline with the names we already had with the vanilla classes. If anything, the real ‘cool’ names are the exceptions to the trend in naming.
Please keep in mind that (as before) these things won’t be in the next BWE, but in a future update. As always, thanks for your constructive feedback!
If you dont let us test it, how are we supposed to give you guys some feedback about it?!
They WILL allow us to test it. Just not at the upcoming BEW as implementing changes has to go through the proper channels and protocols. It’s not as simple as flipping a switch. It’s a big company that they has it’s own protocols and processing times.
Well, it is 1 1/2 weeks til the next BWE, if they did the changes already, it should be able to let us test them there.
Please clarify, do you want us to use Spear of Justice or not?
Half our traits encourage F1 use.
Half encourage us to never use it and rely on the passive.
Change all the traits that improve the passive effect to improve the active effect.
Or allow the passive effect to stay even after activation.
Also I hate how Dragon Hunter is no longer condi friendly, it’s just another Zeal clone now. No more bleeds, no more burning, I thought one of the goals of the Dragonhunter was to make condi guards viable? This trait line is loosing its unique flavour.
I also hate how all our traits are designed for PVP. Where is the PVE love?
The Deflecting Shot changes are perfect, Longbow is almost perfect now.
Traps are still garbage tho.
They don’t want us to do anything; they give us the choice. There is no PVE love because DH is a PVP spec.
Meta builds are pretty much the cancer of this game, slowly killing the community and leaving a big salty tumor in its place, give it time, it’ll get noticed once its big enough ^^
That’s ridiculous. The meta doesn’t exist in games for some frivolous intended design by the devs; it’s there because of how the game elements come together. As long as games have rules, there will be meta in them. It’s not kitten, it’s simply the way players interact with games that are governed by rules and mechanics … and you can’t name a game that isn’t.
That source of bleed was garbage and a waste of a trait. Glad to see it go. These proposed changes are more aligned to what makes sense for the spec and the class. Giving bleed on traps did not.
DH with these changes would at least give a strong build for LBow, as it should have in the first place. It’s pretty clueless to continue complaining about how DH doesn’t give ‘stuff we need’; it’s that way because it was never intended to give stuff we need. If you’re trying to shoehorn elite spec into your currently fixed way of thinking about playing Guardian, OFC it’s not going to work well.
Besides, we already have that needed stuff in the 5 vanilla lines. If you want stuff you think you need, play those.
The Vuln application on Dulled Senses is now insignificant. 1 stack for 8 seconds is pretty weak. I get it’s an adept trait and should be too strong but we have nothing that affects mobs when stacked with vuln other than our direct damage, so 1% for 8 seconds is not a very interesting effect.
My other concern (without remembering exactly what the other traits do in DH) is that it seems you give obvious trait choices. What incentive do I have to not take Dulled Senses, Zealot’s Aggression and Heavy Light? Seems that these traits are TOO focused to deliver a specific set of effects.
It’s not useless, it just doesn’t work in that particular instance … you think there is a reason it wipes stab so fast? Probably because you shouldn’t be using stab there in the first place.
It’s plenty fair … Anet promised you nothing when you prepurchased except “BETA access”. Stop making up things you think you are entitled to, then QQing when you didn’t get them because of ‘not fair’.
Judging by your posts, you have alot to learn about how RL things work.
Granted, with that said there are certainly encounters in the game where that 45% damage loss could mean the difference between success and defeat.
Is that really true though? If it was, how do we explain people soloing dungeons? If damage loss was such a significant factor in the content, then in theory, no amount of skill should allow people to solo it.
Would it be better if they delayed the BWE2 by 2 weeks in order to include Ranger and Engi elite specs?
No, because according to the OP’s logic, it’s already ‘too late’ since 4 professions have the ‘advantage’ of the first BWE that Engi/Ranger hadn’t. Not like anyone understands why that’s a massive issue in the first place ….
It doesn’t matter how many more BWEs Anet give us now. All other professions will still have had 2 more than Rangers and Engis. I’d be saying exactly the same if it was any other 2 professions in the same position.
Even if every prof has 2 more than Engi/Ranger, its irrelevant. Anet only needs as many BWE’s as is necessary to make the changes they want. Frankly, you’re being presumptuous and it’s making you look silly.
Regardless of the aspect of feedback, it’s still 2 more BWE’s worth of playtime.
Thanks for the ad hominem. Do you tend to rebuke arguments solely with logic and facts, or do you simply feel the additional inherent need to call everyone with whom you disagree in an argument ‘silly’?
It doesn’t matter if they get 2 more BWE’s of playtime and if it does, you haven’t explained why, or done so in any convincing manner. I’m not calling you silly because I disagree. I’m doing it because your not making any sense in your argument. You haven’t explained why it’s such a big deal that other professions are getting 2 more BWE’s of play time. In fact, it’s not.
It doesn’t matter how many more BWEs Anet give us now. All other professions will still have had 2 more than Rangers and Engis. I’d be saying exactly the same if it was any other 2 professions in the same position.
Even if every prof has 2 more than Engi/Ranger, its irrelevant. Anet only needs as many BWE’s as is necessary to make the changes they want. Frankly, you’re being presumptuous and it’s making you look silly.
I would think that sinister Guards are at an even more disadvantage than zerker ones … IS the Burning burst that reliable and frequent to rely on it in prolonged or populated encounters without having any defensive stats? I don’t believe it would be.
I think if your doing zergs or roaming with a team, you could get away with Sinisters if your using Permeating Wrath. Otherwise, why bother with burning at all?
Exclusive rewards are actually pretty bad, especially if you can’t sell them. My favourites are things like getting uber loot you can’t use.
I’m all for better rewards for harder content but exclusive? That needs some careful consideration. What happens when you get ALL the exclusive content from something? Do you stop doing that something and complain it’s worth your time to do that hard content because of exclusive loot you don’t need? No, I think that’s a bad route to take.
its not for new players so don’t Suggest to them zerker if they ask , make sure they know its a hard style to master and still comes with its risk regardless of how much you dodge.
That’s not sound logic. It’s just as ‘hard’ to dodge with zerker gear as anything else, it’s just you have to do it less with zerkers gear. That’s an argument FOR encouraging new players to use zerkers that aren’t used to dodging or don’t like it or whatever excuse.
Huh?
Of course it is as easy to dodge with Zerker as with Soldier, button pressing wise.
But how many times do you wipe with a group of incompetent berserkers in an by all means easy dungeon like SE1 because people are bent of stacking in that stupid corner with 3 high damage golems pounding them after WoR and Shields are off or done for? I saw zerker thiefs die, not just go down, with one boss hit in a high level fractal. It´s clearly a l2p issue, and with zerk, a very unforgiving one for people that are new, slow or new and slow.
People incompetent in zerkers are ALSO incompetent in any other gear you want to give them. Same argument. Skill != gear.
Yes, you might live an extra hit or two in not zerkers gear and that might keep you from eating the dirt less but you HAVE to learn to dodge stuff and once you learn that, you will quickly realize you can evolve from not zerkers gear to zerkers gear.
Doing dungeons is about knowledge and skills. Gear doesn’t give that to you. Gear doesn’t allow you to ignore either of those. It lessens the burden only enough to give you breathing room to get the skills and experience you need to progress.
its not for new players so don’t Suggest to them zerker if they ask , make sure they know its a hard style to master and still comes with its risk regardless of how much you dodge.
That’s not sound logic. It’s just as ‘hard’ to dodge with zerker gear as anything else, it’s just you have to do it less with zerkers gear. That’s an argument FOR encouraging new players to use zerkers that aren’t used to dodging or don’t like it or whatever excuse.
Anyway, zerker is only, ONLY good because the system of the game supports it. It’s not about skill or combo. If every profession’s best gear is zerker there is a problem.
I feel for you but that in no way indicates there is a problem. The fact you feel this is an issue shows you don’t understand how the game is designed and how you can tune your gear around your skill and not the other way around.
