Anyone playing smart will 1) farm the hell out of them now so they have the option to sell now and buy later when they are cheaper or keep them for when they need them. Those are win/win options people.
The point of crafting it should be in doing more work so that you pay less.
That’s not true. The point of being able to craft a precursor is to give another option to get one that people can gauge their progress against; that’s missing in the previous ways. NO ONE EVER said it would cost less to get one this way over any other way. In fact, anyone that thinks this way shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how the game works; there is no fixed cost to precursors in the first place.
The best part of all this is that me and others can revel in saying “We told you so” because we all knew there would be no way for Anet to regulate the crafting process to a set of items based on a fluctuating price … it’s common sense.
Perhaps if you aligned your expectations to what is realistic vs. what you think in your head should happen, you would have much less issue with how the game doesn’t work the way you want it.
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Price doesn’t matter if your crafting it vs. buying it because if it did, you would just buy it in the first place.
This thread demonstrates why I think Anet nerfed dungeons … people with no idea about the game other than running the same content over and over for gold. Based on what I’ve seen, that’s not what Anet would like you to experience with their game.
Guardian would be a good choice for that, though some people will chime in to QQ about how it doesn’t do it well enough compared to other professions. Frankly, for the core game, defensive support is not as favoured as offensive support because the only strategy you need in core is to kill stuff faster than it can kill you, though if you play what you like, it shouldn’t matter.
snip because too much text
I’m not going to respond to all of this, neither am I going to read through all these wall of texts here, but I wanted to point a thing out: Meta-builds are guidelines. If you can’t adapt to situations and change traits/lines/etc. out you are still a kittenty player. Everyone should be aware that one build can’t be the best for every single encounter everywhere, this is common sense and if someone really thinks that they’re dense as kitten to be honest.
Unfortunately, the average player doesn’t use this kind of common sense approach to find a build they are successful with that they like … and meta pushers don’t encourage that kind of behaviour because it conflicts their own agendas as well; the whole purpose of establishing what is meta is driven by people wanting to make bank as fast as possible in dungeons and in order to do that, make everyone play a specific way to make that happen; no other reason for that meta to exist.
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The dps values calculated were just assumptions of perfect rotations, no dodging, 2600 armour foes and max buffs. This was to provide a consistent comparison between classes. It doesnt matter if the real values are lower. The relative differences between classes is mostly the same. And the math provides you with the easiest and most effective way of gaging that.
That’s a little bit of my problem, and something that Nemesis outlines in his video … those assumptions are too broad or unrealistic to accurately reflect what’s happening ingame. You’re right, no one should really care what the absolute values are, but when you start comparing relative values, I don’t see how anyone being rigorous in their approach can keep those assumptions because they DO vary between classes; I can face tank more on Guardian than I can with … something else. On a mob with high armor, my Guardian’s damage get’s knocked down a bit compared to the Condition damage player. How much? Well, unfortunately, no one knows because everyone is so brainwashed by theorycrafters ‘meta’ to care enough to move away from their very selective assumptions to attempt to figure it out.
I’ve always said … theorycrafters are going to push the builds THEY want to you know about. Do you think I can get a straight answer on what how a might stacked Zerker/Sinister mixed gear FT engi compares to the meta? Of course not … because no theorycrafter thinks it’s meta to bother with it. It’s all a very nice setup they got going. They tell you what’s the best, then they tell you don’t need to know anything else because it’s not the best. What are they afraid of?
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I’m still waiting for someone to explain why wildy inaccurate calculations relevant to a small set of circumstances are used to justify pushing a very narrow set of builds for all types of PVE that inturn encourages a certain type of behaviour or playstyle ingame … even among ‘not-ignorant’ people.
Furthermore, if ‘non-ignorant’ people are aware their calculations and builds are not accurate for all situations, why they aren’t responsibly investigating the builds for the other PVE contents that ARE optimal to make the point that these current ‘meta’ builds are specific for certain kinds of content?
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Have not had a problem soloing anything yet. Sometimes you die a few, but you learn and adapt. Oh, did I hear someone say there would be a meta for HoT? Don’t think so … if your not changing your builds around for certain mobs, you will have LOTS of problems soloing HoT content, even trash mobs.
Interesting I see people complaining about engis on certain mobs … If anything, I have been MOST successful with Engi. FT, stacking might and boon duration. Almost nothing kills me unless I’m doing something stupid. Smoke dogs are a pain, I just FT 3 them.
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But that is exactly my point, there is an 11 pages long engi bug thread with stuff that is really important, e.g. the duration of projectile protection on throw elixir U.
Stuff like throw elixir b giving 3 or 5 stacks should be on the very bottom of anet’s to do list, if at all.
PS: cough gyros cough
It’s significance is probably not the only factor in making the decision to change it.
I don’t PvP. This is strictly for PvE.
Why did you expect DH to be any good for PVE in the first place? Have you not been paying attention to these forums for the last 3 months?
Assuming your statement is true, why should one of the main features of the expansion be relegated to non-PvE venues?
It’s not regulated to non-PVE venues.
Maybe people should go back to complaining about the name; at least that’s subjective.
So basically some ignorant people think its optimal in situations its not and that’s somehow the people who make the builds problem? It’s like people who complain that a company doesn’t warn you that the Coffey they sell is hot. If you check out the build in the link it very clearly says the following: [DnT] PvE DPS Sinister Engineer For Dungeons and Fractals 8/3/15
So it does even come with a dummy label!
See my problem is that I’ve NEVER seen anyone who promotes meta builds say “Oh hey, It’s not that great for this particular situation”. Either they promote it or they sit back and watch the ignorance happen because they think it’s to their benefit for meta to be promoted everywhere, even if they do know it’s not optimal in every PVE situation.
I got my own ideas why theorycrafters don’t step up to defend their meta against ignorance, but I think in the end, it just works against them. When I see notable people promoting meta builds intended for dungeons for use in openworld content, I KNOW this isn’t limited to a few ignorant people.
Clearly havent been paying attention then. Because i mention it all the time. Its in my guide. Also others have been saying it for years. Adapt to the situation means adapt to the situation. And that implies that some things arent as effective in some areas.
Battling ignorance is an impossible task. It takes way too much time. And often its willfull ignorance so the players concerned will never actually allow themselves to be receptive to your advice. Hence its an impossible task and waste of time. The players that listen often dont need the advice in the first place. And if they do they certainly dont need the extra detail that “battling ignorance” would involve.
I pay attention; I know you do but just because you mention it doesn’t mean others do as well. l wasn’t referring specifically to you, though I know from watching Nem’s vids, you guys got history. If you look past that stuff, I think his vids have some things everyone should think about. Especially about the value that doing these calculations has for the community and on it.
I’m aware battling ignorance is an impossible task, yet all these great calculations are released like it wasn’t going to happen in the first place. I said it before, it’s worth repeating .. if it wasn’t for people promoting ‘the best’ builds with math, knowing full well clueless people would not understand the limitations of these builds, then the only thing left would be ignorant people arguing among themselves what the best build based on some anecdotal information. It’s Pandora’s Box. Thankfully, Anet is abandoning AND trashing dungeons and made the encounters in HoT in a way where meta is meaningless.
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So basically some ignorant people think its optimal in situations its not and that’s somehow the people who make the builds problem? It’s like people who complain that a company doesn’t warn you that the Coffey they sell is hot. If you check out the build in the link it very clearly says the following: [DnT] PvE DPS Sinister Engineer For Dungeons and Fractals 8/3/15
So it does even come with a dummy label!
See my problem is that I’ve NEVER seen anyone who promotes meta builds say “Oh hey, It’s not that great for this particular situation”. Either they promote it or they sit back and watch the ignorance happen because they think it’s to their benefit for meta to be promoted everywhere, even if they do know it’s not optimal in every PVE situation.
I got my own ideas why theorycrafters don’t step up to defend their meta against ignorance, but I think in the end, it just works against them. When I see notable people promoting meta builds intended for dungeons for use in openworld content, I KNOW this isn’t limited to a few ignorant people.
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The problem isn’t that the model doesn’t match the actual; The problem is that the model is too simple and doesn’t cover more scenarios, leading to promotion of the ‘optimized’ meta in situations where it’s not. A great example is when people promote the meta for openworld map completion on a Guardian. The current meta is not optimal for that content; it never has been as a matter of fact.
It covers the scenarios it was meant for, being taken out of context isn’t anyone’s fault other than the morons who do it. There is nothing you’ll convince them otherwise, they’ll always stick to their unfounded views, so why bother changing what you are doing because of it.
Why bother? Oh probably has something to do with the three negative things that I outlined in my previous post, including the fact that some of the impetus for theorycrafting in the first place is to try to influence people to play a certain way. I get that’s not a concern to theorycrafters and I’m not suggesting they stop but I do think they don’t do enough to validate their theories.
From my own personal perspective, part of the satisfaction of doing a model is to see if it predicts what happens IRL. If there is no prediction, or that prediction is admittedly crap, then what is the motive to do it for DPS in GW2? Testing mad excel programming skills? If the calc is so far off or so limited in its application that it’s hardly relevant … well, time to step up the game boys.
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The establishment has always said that theoretical DPS doesn’t match up to in game. The point of theoretical DPS is simply to provide a meaningful benchmark, and because the combat in this game has thus far been easy enough that the gap between theoretical and experimental, and the differences in those differences between builds, are low because there is little to throw you off ideal rotations, theoretical is the most easily used and compared.
The problem isn’t that the model doesn’t match the actual; The problem is that the model is too simple and doesn’t cover more scenarios, leading to promotion of the ‘optimized’ meta in situations where it’s not. A great example is when people promote the meta for openworld map completion on a Guardian. The current meta is not optimal for that content; it never has been as a matter of fact.
Why is this a problem? Because the calcs are being misused by people that don’t understand their restrictions/limitations as they just think it’s globally applicable. META is not the greatest build for all PVE situations; it never has been. Yet it’s promoted that way so unknowing people adopt meta because that’s the meta-pusher agenda.
Even though theorycrafters caveat their work with “might not match real game experience”, that doesn’t stop ignorant people from using those calculations (the sole reason to MAKE those calcs mind you) to justify poor behaviour with building teams, QQ on the forums about how bad a class is or give people misinformation about gameplay. The worst part is that the theorycrafters KNOW this is happening and don’t take care to ensure they make the limiting conditions of their calculations known. It’s pretty irresponsible IMO.
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(I know, I know, in your “math” it’s lower because you’ve included the condi ramp up time for that average value. But guess what: you’re cherry picking your time frame.)
As you would with casting time or execution times with direct damage as well if you were calculating DPS properly …
Honestly, read what you said. You’re accusing him of including ramp up time for damage in an AVERAGE DPS MEASUREMENT!! Be careful if you’re going to argue pedantic points with people to try to knock holes in their arguments if what you say is not correct either.
You’ve misunderstood. I’m pointing out that he accuses other people of cherry picking or using “math-in-a-void” when he is doing exactly that. He thinks he’s seeing some bigger picture that others are too narrow mined to grasp, but all he does is apply a different frame of reference.
As for the 20k dps engi or other alleged fake dps values: obviously those don’t factor in ramp up or pre buffing times, no one was ever thinking that 20k dps means you do 20k dps from start to finish of a fight.
So when Nemesis thinks others are hypocrites for not extending their time frame to better represent the actual average values, it’s rather hypocritical of himself to exclude stuff like burst rotations against targets with lower hp. (=cherry picking)
Nemesis is challenging the establishment to explain how their calculations match up with actual ingame experience. It’s not an unreasonable ask, especially since so many people rely on what they are being told to determine how they act ingame. What you are doing is focused on minutia and attempting to diminish the value of his work. Frankly, if people weren’t so scared of what he had to say, they would address it instead of dismissing it outright.
you can prove me wrong … if you fail to do it, it means it doesn’t exist
Can’t argue with that flawless scientific method.
I really don’t get how you expect people to take you seriously if you behave like this.
What he’s asking here should be a BASELINE expectation for people to justify their calculations in the first place. For example, if people are claiming Engi can do 20K DPS and that’s relevant in the actual game setting ‘doing stuff’, why SHOULDN’T we ask for a video showing it can happen? I mean, we got vids of people soloing dungeons and doing speed runs …. but the second we want to know if optimal DPS calculations (that are being used to treat people BADLY) be verified with a measurement of actual gameplay DPS, you think people were being asked to kill puppies.
What I find funny is that we are always TOLD that anyone can learn how to play to use rotations and meta gear because it’s so easy, yet the second anyone questions the validity of the zerker meta and how a player’s skill influences that play, it’s dismissed, even though it’s obviously a factor.
What I REALLY think … even the most pro players do not want to expose themselves on actually how far off their relevant, gameplay DPS numbers differ from the calculations because that would totally sink any argument meta-pushers would have to promote their ideas on how people should ‘correctly’ play the game, since it’s all based on those calculations.
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(I know, I know, in your “math” it’s lower because you’ve included the condi ramp up time for that average value. But guess what: you’re cherry picking your time frame.)
As you would with casting time or execution times with direct damage as well if you were calculating DPS properly …
Honestly, read what you said. You’re accusing him of including ramp up time for damage in an AVERAGE DPS MEASUREMENT!! Be careful if you’re going to argue pedantic points with people to try to knock holes in their arguments if what you say is not correct either.
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When I picked my profession at launch, I got to play as it. I didn’t need to play anything else to unlock it. I could use all of the weapons, and only with about a 5 minute commitment I could use all weapons.
No, actually … there are TONS of unlocks you need to do that take much longer than 5 minutes to get the full experience of the profession.
He has part 2 and 3 up on his channel. I watched them. There is two points that everyone should take from those videos:
1. You can’t just make a model of something (DPS in this case) without verifying it’s validity where it’s actually used (not golems). Nemesis approach to MEASURING DPS is very reasonable. In fact, I don’t see how else it could be done. I haven’t seen any theorycrafters measure DPS to confirm their calculations.
2. You can’t promote a build as absolute best when we know there are limitations for these meta; for example, I’m always laughing internally when someone tells me the meta is the best for openworld content.
These two missing elements is something I’ve always struggled with when people promote meta. It would be unacceptable in professional scientific community to do this. The biggest disaapointment is that when challenged, it’s simply dismissed. If the way people calculating meta currently was so rigourous and robust, they shouldn’t have a problem refuting the information being delivered by Nemesis. I don’t see that happening.
From a scientific POV, the meta calculation people have it backwards. They should be trying to model measured DPS from various rotations and using their model to predict, then verify other builds to show the correlation. As they improve their model, the correlation will increase. They haven’t done enough to demonstrate their model is correct but people eat that stuff up because they see some math. Unfortunately, just using math doesn’t legitimize the model.
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HoT doesn’t have enough content. That’s why they padded it with grind. What’s surprising is how many people are eating it up.
I guess their opinion about what they like about the game is different than yours.
This QQ was better when it was people complaining HoT only had 4 maps and not enough content.
I don’t PvP. This is strictly for PvE.
Why did you expect DH to be any good for PVE in the first place? Have you not been paying attention to these forums for the last 3 months?
It just doesn’t make any sense to have purchased the game a half a year or more earlier and end up having to basically purchase it a second time.
How does not having to pay for an expansion or upgrade not make sense? What world do you live in where you get expansions for free on … whatever, just name it.
You didn’t have points. Dude was talking about core skills, you decided to talk about something not relevant to the thread about how we are abandoned, ignored and forgotten by devs because Revs.
Actually, there is a relevant complaint here, you just haven’t applied your rage properly to address it; there is no way the devs are going to address core skills during HoT release; the very idea they would do so indicates to me they are overly confident about how error/bug free and well balanced all the new elite specs are going to be.
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Guys if you look at the whole thread it is mostly just ohoni arguing against everyone else. Why is this thread still alive seriously, just let ohoni perceive it as taking grind to a whole new lvl who cares. Why are you trying to convince someone who obviously won’t be convinced.
That’s every thread.
Maybe if players toned down sensationalism, devs would be more likely to engage us. The playerbase has been cast aside and forgotten because … Revs? Are people to take this seriously? Devs HAVE replied and implemented LOTS of suggestions that they have asked us for. Just because they aren’t the specific things on certain players priority lists doesn’t mean people should be dishonest.
Specifically for this, I do fault Karl on his ambitious goal to consider core changes … this I think is simply not realistic and in all honesty, what core changes have they NOT heard us already talk about dozens of times?
Its sensational to point out the fact that the rev forum is active while other forums, Guardian included, have been left to languish? When was the last time devs actually implemented a change we asked for? And don’t say shields because literally know one asked for cool down reduction. All I’m asking for is a little communication, if features have to wait I understand! There is no reason to break out the soap boxes, I think we can all agree an active conversation would be nice, but thus far we’ve gotten a post or two at the start of a thread and then zero comments on our feedback.
You’re other post, including this one is very sensational, as well as demonstrating you’re lack of understanding for the mechanics of changes in MMO’s in general. I’m going to leave you and your friends to scream at walls on the forums while the rest of us use the keys we have been given by Anet to open the doors. GL.
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It’s not Roy, it’s the Rev. Rev has priority atm for obvious reasons.
Well, yes, we can clearly see that, but just because they are new doesn’t mean the rest of the player base should be cast aside and forgotten. Are you really implying that it is impossible to reply to some of the suggestions that they have asked us for? Why even ask in the first place if they don’t have time for anyone but Rev?
Maybe if players toned down sensationalism, devs would be more likely to engage us. The playerbase has been cast aside and forgotten because … Revs? Are people to take this seriously? Devs HAVE replied and implemented LOTS of suggestions that they have asked us for. Just because they aren’t the specific things on certain players priority lists doesn’t mean people should be dishonest.
Specifically for this, I do fault Karl on his ambitious goal to consider core changes … this I think is simply not realistic and in all honesty, what core changes have they NOT heard us already talk about dozens of times?
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If you could not spread your salt around, that would be great.
It prevents actually useful things from growing.
Like revs ?
Lol ok sorry you are right i am salty…but seriously it is hard not to be … we have invested time on a toon whith a role..we are not asking for top supremacy but just be good at what we were designed for and we are just put on the complete lackluster side for a long time…for marketing obvious reasons..this is bad approach…
But you are right i’d better stop because their decision has been taken a while ago and won’t change for sure.
This is where I don’t get the complaining. Where or how have people come to the conclusion that we aren’t good at what we were designed for and we are lackluster? I believe that’s where the ‘salty’ is coming from because I just don’t see it. Guardian isn’t good at what it does or is lackluster? I think it is, in my opinion, really good at what it does. I do agree that it does seem a little uninspired (DH name for example) but that’s a somewhat minor issue; certainly not a reason to be ‘salty’.
Frankly, I don’t think the new conditions/boons are rolled out enough to the other professions as they could be, but I don’t think that’s an indication of any particular professions awesomeness/terribleness.
I agree it’s a neat trick for killing hard things or large groups to get fast leveling but once you reach 80, that’s not an optimal way to proceed into openworld if you want map completion. Most encounters will be single target trash and staff falls short there.
I wouldn’t recommend that for solo farm and missions; these activities need killing, not tagging and kiting with AoE damage from staff is not as practical as people tend to think because geographic, mob spawn locations and mob agg reset. Perhaps as the secondary weapon, a staff could be useful because for this kind of content, a ranged option is a consideration if you stumble on an event where it’s needed. I personally prefer scepter for that option.
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Honestly … what better way to relearn the game than rolling a new character?
I don’t understand what the overall concept is. Like a chanting monk idea?
Carrion loot stick … is what?
For instance, people complained about Ascended being introduced being a ‘grind’ and ‘breaking promises’. Does that really affect a person’s ability to be successful in the game?
Is there any success, in a game, that matters more than playing and having fun?
If the quality of one’s play is lessened and the fun to be derived is lessened then yes the ability to be successful may have been impacted.
That’s exactly my point … if success is about playing, having fun, how is something you don’t need to do or something you can get THROUGH having fund and playing be an issue? In the cases where it is an issue, success is NOT about having fun or playing; it’s about getting a particular conglomeration of pixels and text.
So OP you’re complaining about pre purchasing because raids and legendaries wont be out at launch when we’ve know for sometime that raids and to a lesser extant legendaries would be after launch? If that’s the case I feel no pity for you. It was in your power as a consumer to make an informed decision before buying a product, not Anets.
We were told atleast three new legendaries and one raid would be there on launch.
No we didn’t. What was said at the Raid reveal (think it was at PAX?) was that the first wing of the first Raid would be released a short time period after the release of the expansion to give people time to play some content and get their masteries levelled up a bit.
I believe this video will clarify a little for you
The live stream that announced raids said the first wing would be out a week or so after release and the other wings would be released after that.
https://youtu.be/tM8cgQ42bMQ?t=958
—>before christmas.Hmm, my bad didnt see this. Lol it turns out this came out a week after i pre-purchased sigh i shouldve waiting longer. Well doesnt change my opinion about how this is a completely unfinished product and plain wrong but it was my bad for not waiting longer.
It’s not completely unfinished … many of the things that are part of HoT will be ready for launch. In fact, I’m counting on experiencing many bugs and unfinished things, no different than any other software I’ve used that gets patched over time as bugs are revealed and fixed or features added/changed. What I don’t get is that the experience you’re describing you feel negatively about has been the status quo for GW2 since release.
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There will be, for some people, a real impact of how some game changes affect their fun and enjoyment and they have already the sense to leave it if the impact was really that big for them.
Frankly, I find many of the points people make regarding some of the game changes are overblown and sensational. For instance, people complained about Ascended being introduced being a ‘grind’ and ‘breaking promises’. Does that really affect a person’s ability to be successful in the game? Other than the highest level fractals, is there anywhere else you NEED Ascended gear for fun/completion? No, there isn’t.
That’s just one example, but it’s all the same. Some guy complains that he can’t play HIS way, like it was even a reasonable expectation for Anet to implement EVERY way that the game could be played to satisfy that misinterpreted idea of “play how you want” in the first place. Really disingenuous stuff floating around here.
The whole premise of this thread is a joke: Whole new level of grind? I don’t see it … it’s the same amount of work to get Ascended gear post HoT as it is now … and it’s STILL not a barrier to content.
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NO digs on metabattle, or anyone else but very few people are knowledgeable about builds optimized for solo farm/missions, or what I call openworld content. The ‘PVE’ builds that you are going to find discussed anywhere are optimized for dungeons only because most people take Openworld content for granted since it’s ‘easy’.
Until proper theorycrafting is done for trashmob encounters and the builds consider proper opening and closing of trashmob fights, you won’t find optimal openworld builds.
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Yup, here you admitted it. Your entire threads and subsequent posts are nothing but for your own personal gain. You don’t want to play the game as it is intended to be played. Just the reward. Yep!
You want the same. You’re just in the lucky position that they seem to be offering you what you want without having to ask for it. That does not make you more virtuous for defending the status quo.
Bingo. Too bad that a few posters are so in love with themselves that they simply refuse to see their own ego/shortcomings or the chance that they could actually be wrong.
Bingo that people choose a game that appeals to their sense of fun and achievement when others do not? Is that serious?
Honestly, Anet does not cater to moulding a product to every customers desires. If someone thinks the game doesn’t live up to their standards, you find a different product to play.
People chose this game with stuff like no grind and best gear by 80 being the direction of the game.
Are you implying people can’t continue to enjoy the game because they cling to academic paradigms? I don’t know what specific people’s experience is with consumer goods but it’s clear that the expectations they have with these games is not inline with others.
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We already have a utility that rezzes players, throw elixir R. It does so on up to 5 allies, clears 1 condition per second, is a lightfield (so even more condi clears), can not be damaged, has a 1.2k range, rezzes faster than the function-gyro & even rezz ourselves if thrown right before we go down. Together with HgH & tools it can be used every 70 seconds, clears a additional condi and grants might+vigor on impact. If kinetic battery is equipped as elite trait, it can be used every 40sec, or twice in short succession every 70 seconds.
This is the best point that can be made against the mechanic of function gyro.
It speaks volumes when you have a single utility that out functions and entire Elite Specializations mechanic.
Seems to me that what this really says is Throw Elixer R needs a massive nerf.
Yup, here you admitted it. Your entire threads and subsequent posts are nothing but for your own personal gain. You don’t want to play the game as it is intended to be played. Just the reward. Yep!
You want the same. You’re just in the lucky position that they seem to be offering you what you want without having to ask for it. That does not make you more virtuous for defending the status quo.
Bingo. Too bad that a few posters are so in love with themselves that they simply refuse to see their own ego/shortcomings or the chance that they could actually be wrong.
Bingo that people choose a game that appeals to their sense of fun and achievement when others do not? Is that serious?
Honestly, Anet does not cater to moulding a product to every customers desires. If someone thinks the game doesn’t live up to their standards, you find a different product to play.
I think the part of the problem with ‘misdirected changes’ on things, like shield, etc… is that sometimes, devs get the wrong message from people and this is a good example. We all must know exactly how we would feel if THIS was the fix that Anet implemented for SW’s. We would hate it. It’s worthless.
It makes perfect sense to adopt the gyro mechanics into SW.
Not debating if it makes sense or not … debating if it’s a GOOD change that would make SW’s more playable than they are now. I don’t think it would. The only advantage you get for changing Timer on summon is that you could chain the same SW IF IT DOESN’T DIE … what SW have you used lately that doesn’t die quickly?
Edit: just checked out the Engi BWE3 thread on this change … and INDEED the CD’s on some Gyros have been increased because of the CD timer on summon change for the exact reason I stated earlier; Anet does not want 100% possible uptimes on gyros. Therefore, I think it’s a high probability they wouldn’t want them on SW’s either.
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How is it not possible! SW’s aren’t balanced according to how Gyros work. Do people actually think after 3 years that references to OTHER class tools is a sensible way to request and justify fixes for different classes? That’s not really a sensible way to think because of the intentional differences between classes.
Listen, SW’s are pretty lame right now but if CD started on summon … would that make them more appealing to us? Think about what happens when a SW dies in a fight … would it matter if you could summon another right away? What are the chances it sticks around to be useful? Probably not good … Did ‘CD timer start on summon’ really give you anything to get excited about there? I don’t think it did.
What I’m saying is that the appeal that CD timer start on summon gives you is something that doesn’t make sense … they can be chained as long as they don’t die and that’s why I think ANet wouldn’t stop to change other things to ‘balance’ SW’s if there were changed to CD timer on summon. Think about WHY Anet gave them finite life in the first place …
(edited by Obtena.7952)
If people aren’t using or are misinterpreting the definition of grind Anet uses to define the concept of their game, then what those people say isn’t really relevant.
Whoa there, that’s one big, ugly logical fallacy my friend. Please try to debate in a respectful manner, without dismissive rhetoric.
Just came into this conversation. So I’m clueless atm. Explain?
Yeah, I’m wondering this too … why is my statement a fallacy> Anet has created the game around THEIR ideas of what it should be, not the random whims of players … so why does it make sense for players to evaluate the Anet and the game based on things that aren’t relevant to how the game is conceived? That’s not dismissive rhetoric … that’s reasonable fundamentals.
I think asking for this kind of change would backfire because of what appears to be the intent of the current design. If SW CD timer started on summoning, I can see them extending the cooldown PAST the lifetime of the skill to guarantee no overlap. I don’t believe Anet wants use to have access to a specific SW at all times.
While this sounds like a good idea for SW’s, I don’t recall people asking for this for years. Personally, I think the idea wouldn’t make SW’s any more appealing to use.
Obtena.7952 a passive trait is actually the only option for such addition to guards, we already have 5 signets so a run speed signet can’t be added. As the core guard traits are designed rather well there’s only 2 possible trait locations for a passive run speed trait to be added one is Zealots speed from zeal trait line and the 2nd is defenders dogma from dragon hunter trait line. Defenders dogma is pretty much a empty hole in DH traits right now. For longbow DH guards zeal is less viable as a option over virtue trait line so adding it to zeal would make it less accessible for ranged DH builds. This is why replacing defenders dogma with a passive run speed trait is the best option should Karl decide to add it.
As i said before its time to let Karl make the decision over this with all arguments for/against such a trait and for us all to focus on other parts of dragon hunter/core guard.
Thee number of current signets doesn’t exclude the addition of another. There is no reason to ‘invent’ rules to restrict what could be.
I like how a person can think they have figured out the answer to the ‘flipping’ problem after 3 years to make another thread about it, like the other 50 threads on the topic were failures.
Sorry, no. This thread adds nothing more to the discussion and life will continue with flipping. Get used to it … it’s been around for 3 years. Can’t be that bad.