(edited by Obtena.7952)
I think that many players assume to know what or how devs think when they develop a class in any MMO and GW2 isn’t any different. There is so many things wrong with how the meta is pushed in the game and how it negatively impacts it that it’s hard to find a place to start asking questions or having a discussion. I can’t get over the fact that despite how far from reality the theorycrafting calculations are, they are still the standard that people use to act out on others. The only thing the calcs do is give a theoretical upper damage limit for a rotation/build for SPECIFIC and IDEAL situations.
The bottom line is: if you have any capacity to think for yourself, do so and come to your own conclusions; this isn’t rocket science. The math on a spreadsheet only takes you so far. Don’t be a sheep.
Good players and guilds make ideal situations more common. They figure out how to position or manipulate an encounter to get the highest dps possible. They make the math a reality.
‘Being good’ doesn’t affect all the assumptions that are being used to make these calculations; for instance, ‘being good’ doesn’t prevent you from having to dodge, something the calcs don’t take into account. No one can tell me it’s impossible to model dodging … if a theorycrafter can’t incorporate how dodging events impact DPS, they should just pack it in.
Even for factors where ‘being good’ does affect, the math still does not approach the values that are realistic to what happens in the game.
It does mean that you minimize dodging as much as possible. Good examples are dungeon groups that take advantage of Mesmer reflects and Guardian aegis to eliminate or greatly reduce the need for movement, in order to maximize dps uptime.
Once again, good group will take advantage of all possible mechanics to maximize their dps uptime, in order to get as close to the theoretical maximum as possible.
Ceiling values are very relevant. Good players will practice their rotation over and over to get as close to that ceiling as possible. If a different build has a higher ceiling, then they’ll change their build and try to get close to the ceiling of the new build.
Sure, there is a small amount of people who use the ceiling as a target to see how close they can get. That’s not the problem with these calcs, so put that to rest.
The problem is that there is a MASSIVE number of people that use the ceiling calculation as ‘proof’ of what professions are good or bad and act stupidly because of it. Some of these people even believe it’s an obtainable value.
There really isn’t anything you can do about that. There will always be people who will misinterpret the data, whether intentionally or due to ignorance.
There actually is something the people can do about that, they just don’t because it’s more difficult than what they are capable of doing; enhancing their models and adding in factors that are more aligned with what happens ingame.
So we have some weekend Excel warriors pushing zeroth order DPS calcs barely relevant to the real game situation and a whole bunch of other people buying it because ’it’s math’. Things like this make me fear for the education levels in the places where these people exist.
You’re assuming that people who make spreadsheets and dps simulators for MMOs don’t actually play the game, but from my experience, its usually the opposite. These are people at or near the top of their MMO’s group content communities.
That is why people listen to guilds like DnT when they give their numbers for a build and rotation.
People being at the top of their MMO content does not mean they have a clue on how to model DPS. Those two skills are not inclusive.
So when I see ignorant people accepting DPS calculations based on the fact the people making those calculations are top of their game, that’s a fallacy. I trust very few people to recognize that fallacy for the exact same reasons I trust very few people to understand how the calculations DON’T relate to ingame experiences.
The point is that they don’t release builds and numbers in a vacuum. After they calculate what the theoretical ceiling is, they try to reach it.
A rule of thumb from WoW raiding is that you should try to consistently reach 90% of your SimCraft calculated dps. The calculations do translate into ingame experiences if you practice and the people you play with practice.
I acknowledged there is a contigent using these calculations to see how to improve their game so you’re Point is made. In fact, I would argue theorycrafters are doing it wrong in the first place, but that’s far too academic a discussion to be had here I think, especially if they can’t or won’t even improve their calculations to include simple effects like dodging. As evidence (or lack of) of this, I have yet to see a video actually demonstrating how correlated between game experience and the current DPS calcs are; even though you elude to them trying to reach it, they won’t and they know it. That’s why I think they don’t bother.
Again, What I’m speaking about isn’t about the behaviour of the people you are referring to in your point. If EVERYONE was aware that these are just ceiling calculations, you wouldn’t have the negative behaviours you see ingame and on the forums and the misuse of these calculations.
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The game needs a damage meter.
this.
I used to be a stalwart DPS meter hater but now I can see and agree it’s necessary, but not likely for the reasons that people typically say.
I believe we need damage meters so ideas of what is ‘good and bad’ professions can be debunked. I think if you’re going to be discriminated against because of your build/profession/whatever … as least let it be based on truth instead of what some irrelevant calculation from some overzealous Excel wizard tells us it is.
The upside is this … a tool demonstrating DPS by Anet’s own hand is very powerful for players to have when discussing the relevant range of damage they get from various builds; it does serve as a platform for a discussion about DPS balancing, etc… If we all work from the same information, then the arguments about what the relevant information actually is ceases.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I think that many players assume to know what or how devs think when they develop a class in any MMO and GW2 isn’t any different. There is so many things wrong with how the meta is pushed in the game and how it negatively impacts it that it’s hard to find a place to start asking questions or having a discussion. I can’t get over the fact that despite how far from reality the theorycrafting calculations are, they are still the standard that people use to act out on others. The only thing the calcs do is give a theoretical upper damage limit for a rotation/build for SPECIFIC and IDEAL situations.
The bottom line is: if you have any capacity to think for yourself, do so and come to your own conclusions; this isn’t rocket science. The math on a spreadsheet only takes you so far. Don’t be a sheep.
Good players and guilds make ideal situations more common. They figure out how to position or manipulate an encounter to get the highest dps possible. They make the math a reality.
‘Being good’ doesn’t affect all the assumptions that are being used to make these calculations; for instance, ‘being good’ doesn’t prevent you from having to dodge, something the calcs don’t take into account. No one can tell me it’s impossible to model dodging … if a theorycrafter can’t incorporate how dodging events impact DPS, they should just pack it in.
Even for factors where ‘being good’ does affect, the math still does not approach the values that are realistic to what happens in the game.
It does mean that you minimize dodging as much as possible. Good examples are dungeon groups that take advantage of Mesmer reflects and Guardian aegis to eliminate or greatly reduce the need for movement, in order to maximize dps uptime.
Once again, good group will take advantage of all possible mechanics to maximize their dps uptime, in order to get as close to the theoretical maximum as possible.
Ceiling values are very relevant. Good players will practice their rotation over and over to get as close to that ceiling as possible. If a different build has a higher ceiling, then they’ll change their build and try to get close to the ceiling of the new build.
Sure, there is a small amount of people who use the ceiling as a target to see how close they can get. That’s not the problem with these calcs, so put that to rest.
The problem is that there is a MASSIVE number of people that use the ceiling calculation as ‘proof’ of what professions are good or bad and act stupidly because of it. Some of these people even believe it’s an obtainable value.
There really isn’t anything you can do about that. There will always be people who will misinterpret the data, whether intentionally or due to ignorance.
There actually is something the people can do about that, they just don’t because it’s more difficult than what they are capable of doing; enhancing their models and adding in factors that are more aligned with what happens ingame.
So we have some weekend Excel warriors pushing zeroth order DPS calcs barely relevant to the real game situation and a whole bunch of other people buying it because ’it’s math’. Things like this make me fear for the education levels in the places where these people exist.
You’re assuming that people who make spreadsheets and dps simulators for MMOs don’t actually play the game, but from my experience, its usually the opposite. These are people at or near the top of their MMO’s group content communities.
That is why people listen to guilds like DnT when they give their numbers for a build and rotation.
People being at the top of their MMO content does not mean they have a clue on how to model DPS. Those two skills are not inclusive.
So when I see ignorant people accepting DPS calculations based on the fact the people making those calculations are top of their game, that’s a fallacy. I trust very few people to recognize that fallacy for the exact same reasons I trust very few people to understand how the calculations DON’T relate to ingame experiences.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I think that many players assume to know what or how devs think when they develop a class in any MMO and GW2 isn’t any different. There is so many things wrong with how the meta is pushed in the game and how it negatively impacts it that it’s hard to find a place to start asking questions or having a discussion. I can’t get over the fact that despite how far from reality the theorycrafting calculations are, they are still the standard that people use to act out on others. The only thing the calcs do is give a theoretical upper damage limit for a rotation/build for SPECIFIC and IDEAL situations.
The bottom line is: if you have any capacity to think for yourself, do so and come to your own conclusions; this isn’t rocket science. The math on a spreadsheet only takes you so far. Don’t be a sheep.
Good players and guilds make ideal situations more common. They figure out how to position or manipulate an encounter to get the highest dps possible. They make the math a reality.
‘Being good’ doesn’t affect all the assumptions that are being used to make these calculations; for instance, ‘being good’ doesn’t prevent you from having to dodge, something the calcs don’t take into account. No one can tell me it’s impossible to model dodging … if a theorycrafter can’t incorporate how dodging events impact DPS, they should just pack it in.
Even for factors where ‘being good’ does affect, the math still does not approach the values that are realistic to what happens in the game.
It does mean that you minimize dodging as much as possible. Good examples are dungeon groups that take advantage of Mesmer reflects and Guardian aegis to eliminate or greatly reduce the need for movement, in order to maximize dps uptime.
Once again, good group will take advantage of all possible mechanics to maximize their dps uptime, in order to get as close to the theoretical maximum as possible.
Ceiling values are very relevant. Good players will practice their rotation over and over to get as close to that ceiling as possible. If a different build has a higher ceiling, then they’ll change their build and try to get close to the ceiling of the new build.
Sure, there is a small amount of people who use the ceiling as a target to see how close they can get. That’s not the problem with these calcs, so put that to rest.
The problem is that there is a MASSIVE number of people that use the ceiling calculation as ‘proof’ of what professions are good or bad and act stupidly because of it. Some of these people even believe it’s an obtainable value.
There really isn’t anything you can do about that. There will always be people who will misinterpret the data, whether intentionally or due to ignorance.
There actually is something the people can do about that, they just don’t because it’s more difficult than what they are capable of doing; enhancing their models and adding in factors that are more aligned with what happens ingame. Honestly … how hard would it be to factor in DPS loss from dodging? It can be modeled quite reasonably as an interrupt with a duration and frequency that is reasonable. Frankly, if someone can’t incorporate parameters in their models, they should pack it in.
So we have some weekend Excel warriors pushing zeroth order DPS calcs barely relevant to the real game situation and a whole bunch of other people buying it because ’it’s math’. Things like this make me fear for the education levels in the places where these people exist.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I think that many players assume to know what or how devs think when they develop a class in any MMO and GW2 isn’t any different. There is so many things wrong with how the meta is pushed in the game and how it negatively impacts it that it’s hard to find a place to start asking questions or having a discussion. I can’t get over the fact that despite how far from reality the theorycrafting calculations are, they are still the standard that people use to act out on others. The only thing the calcs do is give a theoretical upper damage limit for a rotation/build for SPECIFIC and IDEAL situations.
The bottom line is: if you have any capacity to think for yourself, do so and come to your own conclusions; this isn’t rocket science. The math on a spreadsheet only takes you so far. Don’t be a sheep.
Good players and guilds make ideal situations more common. They figure out how to position or manipulate an encounter to get the highest dps possible. They make the math a reality.
‘Being good’ doesn’t affect all the assumptions that are being used to make these calculations; for instance, ‘being good’ doesn’t prevent you from having to dodge, something the calcs don’t take into account.
Even for factors where ‘being good’ does affect, the math still does not approach the values that are realistic to what happens in the game.
It does mean that you minimize dodging as much as possible. Good examples are dungeon groups that take advantage of Mesmer reflects and Guardian aegis to eliminate or greatly reduce the need for movement, in order to maximize dps uptime.
Once again, good group will take advantage of all possible mechanics to maximize their dps uptime, in order to get as close to the theoretical maximum as possible.
Ceiling values are very relevant. Good players will practice their rotation over and over to get as close to that ceiling as possible. If a different build has a higher ceiling, then they’ll change their build and try to get close to the ceiling of the new build.
Sure, there is a small amount of people who use the ceiling as a target to see how close they can get. That’s not the problem with these calcs, so put that to rest.
The problem is that there is a MASSIVE number of people that use the ceiling calculation as ‘proof’ of what professions are good or bad and act stupidly because of it. Some of these people even believe it’s an obtainable value. What’s even worse is that the people pushing these calculations rarely even caveat their calculations with useful information like “You likely won’t be able to achieve these values because we didn’t include X in our model” or “This calculation is not applicable to situation X or boss Y because ….” To me that’s the most offensive part of what’s happening here.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I think that many players assume to know what or how devs think when they develop a class in any MMO and GW2 isn’t any different. There is so many things wrong with how the meta is pushed in the game and how it negatively impacts it that it’s hard to find a place to start asking questions or having a discussion. I can’t get over the fact that despite how far from reality the theorycrafting calculations are, they are still the standard that people use to act out on others. The only thing the calcs do is give a theoretical upper damage limit for a rotation/build for SPECIFIC and IDEAL situations.
The bottom line is: if you have any capacity to think for yourself, do so and come to your own conclusions; this isn’t rocket science. The math on a spreadsheet only takes you so far. Don’t be a sheep.
Good players and guilds make ideal situations more common. They figure out how to position or manipulate an encounter to get the highest dps possible. They make the math a reality.
‘Being good’ can’t even make ideal situations happen ever because:
1. Being good doesn’t affect all the assumptions that are being used to make these calculations (mob armor, DPS uptime, etc …) or ‘demonstrate’ them on Golems instead of real game content.
2. Even if YOU are really good, you also need 4 other people in a team to be really good because all these calculations are based on full buffed and debuffs.
You literally need to engineer the exact situation with 5 pro players playing the ideal professions on a specific mob to even come close to the values people are calculating.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I think that many players assume to know what or how devs think when they develop a class in any MMO and GW2 isn’t any different. There is so many things wrong with how the meta is pushed in the game and how it negatively impacts it that it’s hard to find a place to start asking questions or having a discussion. I can’t get over the fact that despite how far from reality the theorycrafting calculations are, they are still the standard that people use to act out on others. The only thing the calcs do is give a theoretical upper damage limit for a rotation/build for SPECIFIC and IDEAL situations.
The bottom line is: if you have any capacity to think for yourself, do so and come to your own conclusions; this isn’t rocket science. The math on a spreadsheet only takes you so far. Don’t be a sheep.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
^ Actually, I would love ways to get burn duration without resorting to gear to do so, especially viper. Not such an awful idea and longer burn durations are quite an improvement for Fiery Wrath where damage increase doesn’t.
Black Box was the loudest one here. According to his friends and guildies, DH is and was, going to suck… even though he never actually played it himself. He never even validated as to why, except it was just going to.
It’s funny how some of these posters have stayed quiet.
u can’t predict stupid. i def didn’t expect so many people to forget to stability + dodge away when a ton of traps start going off.
just like any burst atk, if u are out of stab + dodges, u will prob melt.
so prior to release, it seemed pretty obv traps would be fairly useless as long as most people stab + dodge when they see them pop off, and a guard would be left pretty helpless at that point
what ended up happening?> well u can’t predict stupid
Actually, assuming most people aren’t too smart tends to be a good assumption. I also have no problem seeing people bragging the negative aspects of something being called out to own up to their silliness. Of course, they won’t. That doesn’t mean the collective community memory will let them forget of course.
I ask this because I love making money, I don’t know why but I enjoy farming mobs while watching Netflix and other stuff. But what class would you say is most effective? I was looking at thief, but they seem a bit more of a pvp class than pve. Thoughts?
You’re playstyle is like mine. You’re intuition is correct: thief is the best for farming mobs in open world (HoT is a different story, but it’s not really effective to farm mobs there). I’ve build openworld farming builds for every class but Revenant so far. Clearly, most of the people posting in this thread are clueless about what you’re asking for as I’m seeing nonsense about mass AoEing of mobs, which you almost NEVER encounter while running around in openworld in the first place (and you didn’t ask for an event camping build so … ). Even if you COULD collect mobs for that purpose, you still kill more mobs per unit time killing them individually over gathering them up and being all fancy with AoEs … for trash mobs.
Thief has all 4 elements needed for highly efficient OW farming: Passive Runspeed buff, High Damage, good opening move (so mobs don’t screw with your attacks that reduce time killing them) and closers (so your not impeded by conditions that keep you in combat and slow you down on your way to killing the next mob.)
Dagger/Pistol setup, full zerk. I use Scholar runes and Fire/Air sigils. Open with #3, end with an auto attack on single targets, Open with #5 on multiples. Signet of Shadows, Malice and Assassin’s Signet. You will want a closing move to cleanse long CC conditions. I run Roll for Initiative. Your steal is also a very valuable source of damage and opening move and even a heal IIRC.
Traits are:
Deadly Arts: Top Mid Low
Critical Strikes: Low Top Top
Trickery Low Mid Mid
This build/class requires no cooldown on critical skills between kills, so it’s very repeatable and consistent damage.
On the other hand, Mesmer is the worst. It’s damage requires setup and on Trash mobs … that’s wasted time. It has no runspeed buff, requiring the use of SIgil of speed or Traveller’s runes. Can’t even think of any effective opening moves not limited by CD’s making them useless on the timescales of killing trash mobs. Mantra’s had some condition cleansing at least but you no longer get damage increase for charged mantras.
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dear anet,pls b considerate to casual players
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Obtena.7952
@ Obtena: Well there easy to get as long as you have the Laurels ect. for them, we got a big rush of new players when the Core game went F2P, as well as the rush of new players with the HoT launch, so not everyone have a few hundred “X” laying around to get them.
… and Laurels are also easily gotten because the people that need ascended trinkets they buy are well positioned to obtain laurels. Being new isn’t even a valid excuse … PVP dailies are open to everyone with no entry cost.
No matter how you cut it, the progression for obtaining ascended and gaining fractal levels is clear and well paced. You don’t need a full ascended to enter fractals, you progress in fractals is balanced and regulated by your gear evolution from exotic to ascended. I’m sure that’s not a coincidence either and it’s smart because all these arguments about being unable to participate in game content because of not being able to get ascended fall apart in the face of that intelligent design.
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There is no sensible way that crafting a precursor can be cheaper than a TP one because the TP price is not governed by a predetermined set of materials.
dear anet,pls b considerate to casual players
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Obtena.7952
He’s still going to need Ascended gear for fractals, even if he is a casual player, casual players still participate in High-tier play.
I get what the OP is saying, it’s a pretty daunting task to gather what is needed, not to mention the time investment for a single set of gear, sure you can switch the stats with inscriptions/insignias but, overtime that get’s pretty costly as well.
With the new content, and Raids coming out, your going to have to be flexible, and not everyone is going to have sets of gear/weapons to swap out/in for different builds.
I like your post because it’s still relatively easy to get the Ascended trinkets you need to enter into Fractals, and as you progress, earn some gold/mats, make other Ascended over time … it’s not necessary to have the whole set starting out.
Flamethrower 1 is the best for “on hit” “on crit” procs, because it does 10 instances of an attack in 2 seconds, and each of them can crit separately, similar as grenades.
So things like bunker down, traights from firearms, runes with 1 sec internal cds proc like no tomorrowGood point, I’ve been trying to perfect a bunker FT build. What sigils you recommend?
Bingo …
I find that Sigil of Strength/Bleed + Runes of Strength are a good way to ensure my damage is boosted sufficiently. I get my ‘bunkering’ from taking on Healing power stats. Because you hit so often per second, you can actually cheap out on precision a bit to get more defensive stats to bunker up. I’ve got just a smattering of Clerics and there is no measured drop in damage. Actually, you can get too much precision with this build if you aren’t careful. Depending on the number of enemies, reaching 25 might WITHOUT HGH is very possible.
You could bunker more or less if you want, but I don’t think it’s necessary for PVE at least.
I know I’m going to get a bit of hate for this, but I feel it has to be said in order to keep things in perspective:
The idea of crafting a precursor was to remove the insane randomness of getting a drop, not to hand it to you on a golden platter.
Actually, every single thread about precursor crafting for the last 2 weeks has had multiple posters saying this exact same thing, so likely, everyone has already seen this comment before.
I do think the fact that so many of a precursors’ collection items involves RNG is a real problem, though. Since, you know, this was supposed to be a non-RNG way to get one.
It was? I don’t recall Anet stating that their goal was to eliminate RNG from getting a precursor. I think that’s a MASSIVE fallacy that players have created to continue to complain that it’s too hard to get a precursor.
See, I know Anet is more clever than that. They would have never ever claimed precursor crafting had no RNG element to it. That would be downright stupid since fundamentally, anything crafted from items that drop from mobs is based on RNG.
If you thought that precursor crafting eliminated RNG, it’s only because you wanted it to be true, not because it was a realistic thing that was actually going to happen.
Then what was the point of making them craft-able? I am genuinely asking this out of curiosity, because it doesn’t seem like it makes any sense to go through all of this trouble to implement a precursor crafting system and then just make everyone jump through rng hoops again.
Seems to me that it’s a more determinate way of gauging your progress to getting one … something that MF and TP buying doesn’t do.
…
I enjoy playing pve content mainly, and I especially enjoy instanced pve. Before the nerf, I was netting around 25 gold per day running dungeons and fractals, and less frequently world bosses. Now that gold has been nerfed, I find myself constantly at 1-5 gold, and unable to earn more than 6 or so gold a day without a lucky skin drop or selling off tons of accumulated mats on TP. …
This is where I get cranky …
What I get from this paragraph is that you believe that it’s reasonable for players to be able to make the most gold from a very SPECIFIC and LIMITED kind of game content. I’m not sure you realize that’s actually not a good thing to be happening in the game. In fact, we should all be very critical of Anet for allowing such a situation to exist in the game for as long as it was. While you were making bank doing something you enjoy, there were MANY people out there who were not making bank doing the things they liked.
In short, it’s called equalization and if a game is well balanced and you want to truly make a lot of money from doing game content, you shouldn’t be regulated to a few very specific events/activities to do so.
I never suggested that I believe this should be the only way to earn gold,…
And I didn’t say you did … I said that your post gives the impression that there is something wrong with Anet rebalancing rewards from dungeons. When in fact, the only problem here is that you haven’t exposed yourself enough to other things in the game that give you the necessary perspective to even understand why your complaint is not sensible.
You’re whole premise is that you can’t ‘sustain’ your GW2 lifestyle with alternative income approach after the dungeon reward nerf. You’re solution is to make it go back to the old way, which was obviously nerfed for reasons. Time to think a little more about what you’re asking here.
There is a pretty commonly used technique in game design that GW2 has totally missed. Design the game such that the most rewarding way to play is also the most fun.
What does every single person who plays this game find fun? I don’t think we’ll ever know but it would be interesting to see what’s on top.
Indeed, but I’m pretty sure it’s not SW farming trains.
Why can’t it be? Because running a dungeon for the umteenth day in a row for big gold is, which just as a coincidence, happens to be exactly the only thing you’re willing to do to earn your big bank? …. lacking perspective.
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I know I’m going to get a bit of hate for this, but I feel it has to be said in order to keep things in perspective:
The idea of crafting a precursor was to remove the insane randomness of getting a drop, not to hand it to you on a golden platter.
Actually, every single thread about precursor crafting for the last 2 weeks has had multiple posters saying this exact same thing, so likely, everyone has already seen this comment before.
I do think the fact that so many of a precursors’ collection items involves RNG is a real problem, though. Since, you know, this was supposed to be a non-RNG way to get one.
It was? I don’t recall Anet stating that their goal was to eliminate RNG from getting a precursor. I think that’s a MASSIVE fallacy that players have created to continue to complain that it’s too hard to get a precursor.
See, I know Anet is more clever than that. They would have never ever claimed precursor crafting had no RNG element to it. That would be downright stupid since fundamentally, anything crafted from items that drop from mobs is based on RNG.
If you thought that precursor crafting eliminated RNG, it’s only because you wanted it to be true, not because it was a realistic thing that was actually going to happen.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
…
I enjoy playing pve content mainly, and I especially enjoy instanced pve. Before the nerf, I was netting around 25 gold per day running dungeons and fractals, and less frequently world bosses. Now that gold has been nerfed, I find myself constantly at 1-5 gold, and unable to earn more than 6 or so gold a day without a lucky skin drop or selling off tons of accumulated mats on TP. …
This is where I get cranky …
What I get from this paragraph is that you believe that it’s reasonable for players to be able to make the most gold from a very SPECIFIC and LIMITED kind of game content. I’m not sure you realize that’s actually not a good thing to be happening in the game. In fact, we should all be very critical of Anet for allowing such a situation to exist in the game for as long as it was. While you were making bank doing something you enjoy, there were MANY people out there who were not making bank doing the things they liked.
In short, it’s called equalization and if a game is well balanced and you want to truly make a lot of money from doing game content, you shouldn’t be regulated to a few very specific events/activities to do so.
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Even giving the absolute value of the break bar damage would be useful in allowing players to make choices. In fact, it’s no different than the damage value for an attack; just because we don’t know explicitly how much HP a mob has, I still like to know what kind of damage the attack does in the tool tip.
Good Idea, OP
OP, it’s you, not the class. The performance of the core Guardian has not changed.
Hammer has some conceptual issues and HoT amplifies them … if you want the great things Hammer gives you, you’re standing in melee range uninterrupted for the duration of the Auto Attack. So even though you can get perma-protection, you’re sucking up opposition melee attacks to get it, or losing alot of your damage trying to avoid them. You can’t really afford to do either of those things in HoT.
I would love to see the symbol moved off to another skill. I have no hope that would happen at this point in the game.
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So you would prefer to have no loot and just the event xp, rather than the loot/xp you could get from killing non-event mobs and the event xp?
I don’t understand what this has to do with the thread. Getting the XP and loot for an event on event completion is a reasonable approach to ensure people contributing fully to the event get the most reward. To be honest with you, I haven’t actually encountered what you are talking about. I get tons of XP and loot, even if what you claim is true.
Frankly, I haven’t noticed mobs that don’t give XP or loot but I can think of a reason they wouldn’t. You get enough of both through the completion of the events those mobs are in. I don’t really get the complaint .. what does it matter if the XP and loot come from the event or the mobs in them?
For argument’s sake, what would be wrong with receiving loot and XP from both the individual mobs killed and for a reward at the end of completing a given event successfully?
Nothing. But I don’t see the OP’s issue that even though you get XP and loot form the event, you don’t always get from mobs. To me that’s semantics.
It’s pretty simple. I get maybe 20k exp from an event – sometimes more, sometimes less. That event probably took me 10+ minutes to complete.
How many mobs can you kill in 10 minutes? with just a few small boosts active, i can easily get about 1k a mob, and probably make a handful of silver as well. Even at a fairly conservative kill rate, i’d pretty easily outstrip that 20k from the event and have some loot to show for it as well.
And then, just for kicks, lets tag the event at the very end of that 10min. Maybe i can’t get gold contribution, but i at least get bronze and i bet i could get silver for probably 15k exp.
So… what’s the incentive to actually stick with the event?
The fact that the event gives you the XP/loot. I mean, if event mobs don’t give XP/loot but the event does, your incivent to stick with the event is to get your reward for participating. Am I missing something here? Seem to me that if what you say is true, it’s actually SETUP to entice people to stay at the event.
Frankly, I haven’t noticed mobs that don’t give XP or loot but I can think of a reason they wouldn’t. You get enough of both through the completion of the events those mobs are in. I don’t really get the complaint .. what does it matter if the XP and loot come from the event or the mobs in them?
For argument’s sake, what would be wrong with receiving loot and XP from both the individual mobs killed and for a reward at the end of completing a given event successfully?
Nothing. But I don’t see the OP’s issue that even though you get XP and loot form the event, you don’t always get from mobs. To me that’s semantics.
Frankly, I haven’t noticed mobs that don’t give XP or loot but I can think of a reason they wouldn’t. You get enough of both through the completion of the events those mobs are in. I don’t really get the complaint .. what does it matter if the XP and loot come from the event or the mobs in them?
Not much to do without it.
OK What? So, before HoT was released, there wasn’t much to do ingame?
There is just as much to do in Core GW2 now as there was pre HoT release.
I’m not surprised people find it hard, but I am surprised that people haven’t found builds that help them get through it. I’m lazy. My goal is to survive doing the least possible. l’ve been able to take 4 professions through Verdant, solo by being lazy and finding the easiest builds to play that get me through it. Necro, Engi, Guardian and working on Ranger.
I’m not saying you can solo EVERYTHING, but certainly those 4 classes I’ve played have builds that gets me through story, the majority of mappoints, alive through events … How the difficulty is a showstopper for people, I can’t understand.
Yes, Anet changes expectations based on compelling arguments. Being expensive is to craft is not at compelling reason to change precursor crafting because we know what is expected in terms of resource for legendaries as well as a little common sense.
The way I see it, if expense was a factor in their solution to legendary ‘problem’, I don’t even think we would have gotten precursor crafting because it’s far to complicated a solution. I think if expense was a factor, they would have simply upped the drop rate from the forge and prices on the TP would have went down accordingly. This isn’t some crazy idea either; Anet has shown lots of time they are willing to make adjustments to control costs.
No, I’m going to bet based on the the work they have done for precursor crafting and they fact that they have shown willingness to manipulate mats (and not do it for precursor drops for the last three years) that they didn’t and wont use ‘expensive’ as a reason to change precursor crafting. You guys need a better story.
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They failed based on players’ unrealistic expectations? That’s a fairly obtuse and unreasonable line of thought. I’m sure Anet will jump at that reasoning to fix this.
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… except when it suits you. You do use the reason of ‘expensive’ to justify complaining about the crafting implementation.
/golfclap.
I’m not sure what point you believe you’re making here. The crafting implementation IS too expansive. Do you object to us pointing that out?
Point is pretty simple here; you’re making contradictory statements when it suits your argument to do so.
I object to you stating that as a fact, since it’s subjective. I’m also challenging the notion that it even matters if it’s expensive since I doubt very much Anet’s goal was to make it cheap. In otherwords, where you see fail because it’s ‘expensive’ and think it should be fixed, Anet probably doesn’t see fail because avoiding expensive had nothing to do with their implementation.
But please, like the rest of your issues that turn into megathreads, continue to push that like it’s a compelling reason for Anet to change it.
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‘you’ in this case is the reality of players, anet, reviewers. But people like you Randulf, you only respond to belittle, and have nothing positive to say about the game.
Which in effect is the same as saying ’don’t bother buying it’
Players don’t care if you buy HoT or why you do or don’t buy it either.
Nor do we have any reason to care.
… except when it suits you. You do use the reason of ‘expensive’ to justify complaining about the crafting implementation.
/golfclap.
I think your thread is a clever way to beat a dead horse.
Frankly, if Anet decide to make maps that purposefully waste my time so badly that I need a mount to get around, I won’t be going there.
This is hilarious, as Anet has indeed made that type of map, and it needs a glider “mount” to get around.
Getting around with a glider in a map with horizontal levels is not the same as needing a mount to cut travel time for vast expanses of desert nothingness. The only hilarious thing here is that you’re equating the two.
Oh? Gliders and wings are both considered “mounts” in EQ2. And another category.. jumpers.
Gliders are an equipped external means to travel. Mount.
As an aside, I ride my broomstick all over when bored. A mount. We have mounts.
I don’t get what you’re actually going on about here. If you think gliders qualify as mounts, I won’t argue with you about that if it makes you feel better. My point was that if maps are so large and empty that it becomes sensible to have mounts just to travel around, that would be stupid. Furthermore, since you want to make it a ‘thing’, that’s not the kind of experience you get from gliders in HoT.
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I think your thread is a clever way to beat a dead horse.
Frankly, if Anet decide to make maps that purposefully waste my time so badly that I need a mount to get around, I won’t be going there.
This is hilarious, as Anet has indeed made that type of map, and it needs a glider “mount” to get around.
Getting around with a glider in a map with horizontal levels is not the same as needing a mount to cut travel time for vast expanses of desert nothingness. The only hilarious thing here is that you’re equating the two.
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Problem with this thread is that the game isn’t broken; it works for MANY people, if not the vast majority.
There is nothing irrelevant about it. The price of ‘things’ is determined by the business model. Anet doesn’t have a subscription; they have also released content for free. Did your Burning Crusasde do that for you? The comparison you made is nonsense.
so your reasoning as to why the expansion has barely 20% of the content of WoW’s first expansion at release is “well they’ve given stuff for free”?
i hope i’m misunderstanding you because that is a terrible argument.the comparison isn’t nonsense,
i paid £30 for an expansion, one was worth the price,
the other was 2 armour sets and 4 small maps.
Seems someone’s reading comprehension skills are off today … IO’m illustrating differences in the game business models, not arguing pedantic nothings with you. YOu didn’t get the point the first time so here it is again: Making content comparisons across games is NONSENSE, because these companies have different business models.
You don’t think what you paid for is worth the price? Walk away then. Anet told people the content they were going to get in the expansion. If you bought it, you didn’t do enough due diligence.
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That’s speculation. I don’t see a difference between the rewards you get in HoT or SW. Lots of bags, unique mats needed for new prefixes. People are going to be going there for a LONG time.
I think your thread is a clever way to beat a dead horse.
Frankly, if Anet decide to make maps that purposefully waste my time so badly that I need a mount to get around, I won’t be going there.
What is evident to me is that the expansion forces people to think about how their builds work. In vanilla, you can make any crap you want and play it and feel accomplished. Not here. For example, if you don’t think about how your build deals with smokescales, GL.
People want an xpac to be as big as the original game? That’s not how it works, especially in an MMO.
funny but when i bought Burning Crusade i got a ton of new armours as random world drops, several new instances, all with new armour skins and weapon skins and a massive new continent. in total there were probably around 30 new armour sets, 5 instances and 3 raids on release, oh and 2 new races.
THAT is what i expect from a £30 expansion.
And 15$ a month. Not to mention the 2 games are very different models.
the subscription fee is irrelevant, i’m talking about the initial release, not the content added over time.
initial release had tons of new armour skins, several dungeons and a massive new continent.
that is what you should expect from an expansion with a premium pricetag.
There is nothing irrelevant about it. The price of ‘things’ is determined by the business model. Anet doesn’t have a subscription; they have also released content for free. Did your Burning Crusasde do that for you? The comparison you made is nonsense.
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Silk is more abundant now than ever … it’s almost 1s on TP.
People were asking for an alternative as a METHOD of making it cheaper, and everyone was very clear about that. An alternative that does not result in a cheaper price is a worthless alternative.
Yes, exactly this. Anet’s original announcement of precursor crafting two years ago was spurred on by people’s complaints about skyrocketing precursor prices, and there have been hundreds if not thousands of threads on the subject on this forum alone. People calmed down once they announced precursor crafting was actually coming to HoT, but once everyone realizes it’s not any better than buying it or worshipping the toilet those threads are coming back with a vengeance.
You don’t know what drives Anet’s decision to introduce precursor crafting. The fact that people were complaining SPECIFICALLY about price does not mean ANet introduced precursor crafting to address price. Obviously based on the implementation, Anet’s motive is not cost or difficulty.
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If viable means cakewalk in HoT … then yes.
I encourage you all to continue to say that it’s normal and/or nothing to help me make my point.
You’re point being there is alot of things needed to make BiS gear? Why would any reasonable person expect anything else?
I also encourage anyone wanting to buy HoT to understand that this gear is not necessary to play 99% of the game either, including HoT.
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If crafting a legendary yourself was more expensive than buying one from the TP, would you craft it yourself or just simply buy it from the TP?
…
Why should it be any different for precursors?
Because the implementation for crafted precursors was not about giving cheaper options. It was about a guaranteed approach to getting a precursor.
You said that like 5 times already. But that doesn’t answer my question at all.
Crafting a legendary yourself is cheaper than buying one directly from the TP (which makes sense). Why should it be any different for precursors? How does it make sense that precursor crafting is twice as expensive as getting one from the TP? It doesn’t.
You’re logic doesn’t work here. Even if you can show it shouldn’t be different, which you can’t, it would be irrelevant because the implementation isn’t about making it the same for precursors as it is to legendaries. That’s a false association.
If crafting a legendary yourself was more expensive than buying one from the TP, would you craft it yourself or just simply buy it from the TP?
…
Why should it be any different for precursors?
Because the implementation for crafted precursors was not about giving cheaper options. It was about a guaranteed approach to getting a precursor.
Please direct your gaze to the horizon.
You see that dot out there?
That’s the ship.It has sailed.
Do you ever have anything positive to say on the forums? I read your posts all over the place, and I can say that I wholeheartedly disagree with every single one of them.
There is only one positive thing to say about this 25% RS and it’s already been said by Anet ages ago. The fact that people continue to ignore it doesn’t make the calls for 25% RS any less negative to the development of the class.
No.
I’m not sure why this sentiment keeps getting tossed out when it’s shown that Anet will make changes as needed. 400 —--> 250 HP for elites anyone?
Comparing a global reduction to improving gameplay access for every class in new content to removing one of the few deficiencies of a class for PVP that has been ESTABLISHED as intended is not a genuine comparison.
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That doesn’t change anything I’ve said. Crafting a precursor is an option people were asking for
People were asking for an alternative as a METHOD of making it cheaper, and everyone was very clear about that. An alternative that does not result in a cheaper price is a worthless alternative.
I’ve already explained why that doesn’t make sense; here are a few of those reasons to refresh your memory; precursors don’t have fixed prices and they also have a wide range of prices among themselves. AGAIN, people asking for an alternate method to make cheaper precursors are being rather clueless … on purpose even. Good thing Anet didn’t listen to those people.
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If anything, HoT has made it so that smart, watchful people can strip rich, impatient people of their gold. The opportunity is there … IF you want to take it. Crying on the forums doesn’t get you any further ahead taking that opportunity.