Guild Wars 2

Rskin.4901:

no other class has no weapon cooldowns and easy access to stealth

No other class skills affect both weapon sets. No other class has to think about resource management. See? I can play this game too.

NeroGuilt.4720:

Also, they haven’t increased the initial cast, so you can still use that. Bring them closer to an area where you have some kind of other “enemy” to target. See the knockback coming? Tab that, then use 2. You are out of range of the attack, there for not stunned.

You are a funny guy, you are. Basically what you are saying is: “If you play sword mainhand, take fights with nearby mobs around, then use your initiating/cc/damaging skill as a way to evade telegraphed enemy skills. Then waste some more initiative to be ready to do it again, unless you want to wait 15 seconds.” Boy, that sure sounds reta.. err rewarding.

Let’s do the math on thief stun breakers… SS – 50s cd, RfI – 60s cd, IS – 30s cd. Not counting Haste(or shadow trap with the cast time, l.o.l.).
So except for IS(which, if I needed to use when in trouble for the stunbreak part killed me as often as saved me) we have only 2 stunbreaks with (almost)1m cd each.

But hey, let’s nerf pretty much the only advantage sword sets have over dagger mainhand, because small cat logic.

I miss Dzago (and to a lesser extent DL) – they had so many dedicated duelers…

I like this proposal. It would make zergs be conservative with the siege they use for PvD-ing, now like now “zerg this camp, get supplies, then we go make 2-3 rams”. If it’s changed that the camp starts with 0 supplies when captured though, the speed a camp produces supplies should be twice or even three times as fast.

Nice, finally a bit of alt-friendliness.

Just have to say – I was disgusted from 2 of our(rof) players, that intentionally glitched in jerrifer and took it minutes ago. I know with this matchup it isn’t so important but I still felt dirty.

The Dec 10th nerf... err patch will open up a lot of new builds to sword thieves.
Like the “reroll to warrior” build I am currently using.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNBMhNak0p4N5x5hJOggeohZRVcKkEpHoBbkGA-jUCBodCi0CAEEgk0Q5dFRjtaqIasadER16FYeFFRrWGAm1A-w

This is what I use for roaming… Just don’t use auto targeting(sword 2 is your friend) and you just can’t die. I got chased today from Greenvale to Longview by 8-12 enemies… never felt threatened. It’s an obnoxious 1v1 build and can solo supply camps with ease.
In zerg fights you will feel a bit more like Guardian though, with main damage being your burst LB.

Sometimes I feel not playing my gl/af/ac/treb/balli/etc mastery character. I feel burned out. So I log on another, just for a change of pace… and feel like a newbie. I am NOT having fun feeling like a newbie on a character of mine, just because I prefer playing the majority of my time on another. And you know…. games are supposed to be played FOR fun.
Meh, on another side it makes sense progress is character bound – look at PvP, everything there is character bound so you don’t start from a high level with a new class and get your kitten handed to you. Oh… wait…

Burnfall.9573:

Arena.net, please eliminate this threat; if you continue to not do anything, the thief bot with other bots, will eventually hold more wp’s hostage until they complete full dominance of your world.

“Burnfall’s posts – they never fail to make you giggle!” (commercial voice)

Bacon.4918:

I deleted my thief; no reason to waste the character slot after December 10th.

I am actually waiting for the patch, but I already made a warrior(it feels great btw) and I am getting my wvw ranks slowly back up. Thief is shelved, because I liked only the sword fighting style and they are killing the only advantage it had over dagger(shadow return being an immediate displacement even while under cc).

Conument.3618:

I would like to say sorry to all the vabbi I rudely interrupted tonight doing the Spirit in EB near speldan (Charr Thief)

Fun fact – around 17h today I was soloing the spirit, 20% hp left and 3 vabbi players came. They didn’t attack me, so I was content letting them help me kill the spirit and even covered for them, when the spirit downed them all. After we were done, I lead them to the chest by /point, they /bow-ed to me, I /wave-d and we went our ways. Heartwarming
Signed – Hans Jornungsson(rip Dec 10th), now Niv Zarek.

Imagi.4561:

Sanduskel.1850:

Imagi.4561:

Sanduskel.1850:

I disagree. This community shouted anyone down when the unfairness of permastealth was raised. It cannot think to the good of the game, rather only advocate for its narrow self interests. If I were Anet , I would use this forum’s input only as fact checking. If were up to many in this community the glaring op issues would never be touched.

Can you provide links to these discussions you speak of, where the majority of people contributing were supporting permastealth? At most, I see people tell those complaining about permastealth to “l2p,” but it’s pretty unanimous that it’s a cheap tactic whether you can counter it or not.

Also, which “glaring op issues” are being ignored by the community?

It’s quite humorous to see so many frequent posters suddenly emerge from the woodwork to admit that permastealth is an exploit of mechanics, when only a few months ago they all chanted that its impossible. Indeed, humorous.

Which op issues? The ones nerfed over the last year.

It’s impossible to do damage in permastealth, so while the build is an exploit it’s both impractical and ineffective. I’ve seen that statement in various forms a lot, and I agree with it. Perhaps that is the common argument you’re referring to?

Which “glaring op” issues are you referring to, specifically? There have been a lot of nerfs over the past year, considering that’s the majority of this game’s life so far.

Don’t bother replying to/arguing with Sanduskel, he is a very well known troll over the whole forums and his opinion vary only from several liners in a “thief op nerf him” through “yeah this is ok, thieves didn’t need that anyway” to “yeah thieves deserved that” style. My guess is he got ganked some times in WvW, ragequit the game and spends most of the time on the forums whining how life is unfair. I wish there was a “don’t view this user’s post” option – he was funny at the start, now he is just pathetic.

Sigh… so I guess no matter what we say can make them change their minds about Shadow Return – the skill that was making sword like 3 times more fun to play (at least to me and I have never used SR stomps). Everyone playing sword mainhand knows we have to go (almost)full glass to be able to put pressure with our damage and that’s why… ah forget it, why am I even trying, back to leveling my new project. Rifle/longbow full troll roaming warrior might be fun.

JonPeters.5630:

Uncatchable is a good trait, and it was considered for moving up, but ultimately passed on for reasons that escape me right now.Jon

Suggestion – move it to major instead of flanking strikes, but increase the radius by 40.

And I am thrilled about the PW change… When do you estimate can tell us how will it look like? Because it was quite decent before the 15th of October patch (1s rounded stun meant you could hit with half of the flurry before the stun ran out in wvw). And it always was a great skill for PvE.

Straegen, your math might be true about dagger builds. Now do the math about S/P PW thieves and P/P Unload thieves. Woops, what happened?

Kvzakau.6472:

Literally got my thief to 80 today, now they’re being nerfed again. So done with this game, please just remove them from the game :\..

Just practice d/d or p/d, they will be better after the patch, not sure about d/p without the cheese. p/p gets destroyed if the Opportunist nerf passes, s/x builds get severely crippled because of vigor and shadow return nerfs.

OH BTW – my guard can keep perma vigor up with 35 crit chance. While having 3.1k armor. And perma protection. And perma regeneration. And heal himself and allies around him pretty good on dodge rolls. But it’s ok, nerf vigor on thieves, because… guess pvp.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Oghier.7419:

D/D didn’t get nerfed. Increasing base initiative gain by 33% is a pretty big deal.

It’s more than a big deal. It’s a MASSSSSSSSSIVE buff to all thief specs.

Ahahahahahahaha! Good one. Now remember the “nerfs” and it’s actually not that massive. The patch buffs D/D, but pretty much kills P/P, S/P and S/D.

JonPeters.5630:

Thief:

• Increased the base rate of initiative gain from .75/second to 1/second.
• Shadow Return on Sword. Renamed to Infiltrator’s return. Added a 1/4s cast time.
• Pistol Whip. Reduced the after cast on the first half of this skill by .25 seconds.
• Deadly Arts VI – Sundering Strikes. Increased the trigger chance from 50%. Remove ICD. Decrease Vulnerability duration to 6s.
• Critical Strikes VI – Practiced Tolerance. Increased conversion from 5% to 7%.
• Critical Strikes 15 – Opportunist. Increased trigger chance to 50%. Increase cooldown from 1s to 5s.
• Critical Strikes VIII – Signet Use. Reduced initiative gain from 2 to 1.
• Critical Strike X – Critical Haste. Increase trigger chance to 25%.
• Shadow Arts V – Infusion of Shadow – This trait functionality has been changed to “Gain initiative when you enter stealth.” 2 init.
• Acrobatics III – Vigorous Recovery. Reduced Vigor duration to 4s from 8s.
• Acrobatics IV – Assassin’s Retreat. Increased swiftness duration to 20s.
• Acrobatics IX – Quick Recovery. Reduced initiative gain from 2 to 1.
• Acrobatics X – Assassins Reward. Increased healing scaling by 35%. Moved to Grandmaster Tier.
• Acrobatics XI – Hard to catch. Moved to Master Tier.
• Trickery 5 – Kleptomaniac. Reduce initiative gain from 3 to 2.
• Trickery IV – Flanking Strikes. Move to Master tier.
• Trickery VII – Bountiful Theft. Reduced vigor duration to from 15s to 8s.
• Trickery VIII – Trickster. Move to Adept tier.

Ok, let’s see…

Initiative gains/losses – 25% passive buff, Critical Strikes 15 100+% nerf, Critical Strikes VIII 50% nerf, Acrobatics IX 50% nerf, Trickery V 33% nerf. See a pattern? So yeah, I don’t like it.

Shadow Return… no. NO. NO! Stop it already! I have played S/D since January and SR is what was making the set cool. First you nerf the stunbreak, then the range(this was justifiable though, I admit)… Just no. You will break not only pvp, but pve too for all admirers of S/x with this.

Pistol whip – can’t you just make the stun 1s, how it was before before you unintentionally(I hope) made it useless in pvp setting? So now we get .25s aftercast improvement, so from the previous unintentional(as I said – I hope) 50% nerf they unnerf it by 50%, so the skill is buffed by 25%, which takes him up back to 75% efficiency. Confused yet? BTW PW relied, in most cases, a lot on procs from CS15, so it is still hit by the initiative nerfs.

Deadly arts VI – it looks interesting.

Critical Strikes VI – in tone with the other similar buffs.

Critical Strikes X – it’s definitely better than now, although I think most thieves would prefer 10% trigger chance, but 4s haste.

Shadow Arts V – I like this change, it just felt D/P was too cheesy.

Acrobatics III – 50% nerf… again with the pattern.

Acrobatics IV – never used it.

Acrobatics X – as other have mentioned – ~120hp more isn’t that “grandmastery”, see below

Acrobatics XI – too random, better keep this GM, but make it less random like “Stunbreak and gain swiftness and stability for 10s when you are disabled”, kitten CD.

Trickery IV swapped with Trickery VIII – I can live with that.

Trickery VII – again almost 50% straight nerf.

I am not happy at all. We might as well call this “the 50% nerf patch”.

I like this idea. And I also agree with Madora.

Agree with these, also:

Fourth – they said they won’t tinker with WvW(for good of bad) for the duration of the League.

3/10, fail troll.

Still no PW fix… -_-

Obligatory:

“Show us on the doll, where the mean Thief thouched you.”

I disagree, traveler runes are the best for sustained dps thief. Being able to run both quick recovery and infiltrator signet and still have 25% more movement speed (and 20s might duration boons) feels great.

On topic – OP you are mistaken – the “Orbs” give, as Clumsy said, 20 power, 14 precision, 2% crit damage, meaning 6 = 120 power, 84 precision, and 12% crit damage. You are mistaking them with the accesory jewels.

They should just make it 1s stun, like it was until this patch. Pistolwhip was “ok” – not bad, but not that good before it. And it seems like the simplest quick fix.(I mean wtf – is a simple variable change for 1 skill so hard to do as a hotfix?)

Alerion.3708:

Sry, for blobs please contact anet. We have queues on all maps and can’t really play with guildgroups because they don’t get on the maps. We have to wait hours to join a map. And with a lot of PvE players on the maps its not possible to do something else.

I feel you man, I have nothing against blobs… if the lag they create wasn’t so bad. It’s so annoying when you drop to like 10fps in battle, or have random skill lag/skill quickness during roaming(not even to mention the SM battles, oh God)… We have queues, but from what I have seen (on EB) we try not to use commander tags, so people get spread out less or more(blobs form by themselves though)… You should try it too.

Bratwa.6582:

Reset was quit fun, everywhere action and nobody steamrolled the other.
And that was the very firsttime, that RoF didn`t got destroyed by dl/ dzarg reset forces.
We had ques everywhere and our randoms became quit good at tracking our guildraid down, even tho without dorito and mutliple waypointing.

On which map was ODZ running? :p Haven`t seen you guys on your bl and we couldnt swap bls, because of said ques.
The maps were colorful like a rainbow lol

Nice to see BNF roaming around, i have missed you guys <3

Today i have learned from our very skilled PvE ppl, that sPvP does require less skill than PvE, a fractals run requires much more brain than WvW and scripted events are much more fun than PvP. With that mentality no wonder some ppl don`t improve.
Did dzarg and Drakkar have witnessed such thing as well?

Lmao, I should reinstall just to see that… see you in a bit. Thief trollmode on.

The problem is – there is nothing another class can’t do better than thief in dungeons, except shadow refuge res-es… So back on topic – yeah, thief is bad class to dungeon with.

This is joke, the forums is pretty much a place for Anet yesmen now. And I almost believed (20%), that they ment the collaborative development part.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

How about the fix the things that matter than this. Sorry but SO many more important issues than this. Such as broken mechanics, broken builds, Unbalanced match ups, broken Bloodlust idea to name a few…

+1

Am I the only one that thinks this post was just one lengthy “throw some dust in their eyes” damage control type? Because after months of ignoring feedback and even stating that the forums are a vocal minority so they don’t care for them as long as they don’t notice players leaving the game it is hard for me to just accept this on blind faith.

Genev.2450:

Tbh, if he wouldn’t have tourned on his ANet tag, he would simply have been a kittenbag like there are many.
But with his ANet tag on, he represents the company and instead of being a kittenbag, he shows an incredible lack of professionalism and respect for the customer. While I agree that the community hasn’t shown much respect back, that’s still not acceptable behaviour when representing your company.

^ This said it best.

Oh and my imagination runs wild: “You aren’t playing the game the way our Staff wants you to play it, so we are warning you, watch your back for the ban-bat”.

Dese.1382:

Look at it this way the fights are the reward.

Rework applied fortitude/guard leech so they don’t give stats. Rework the bloodlust buff so it does something worthwile to fight for, but NOT advantage in a “pvp” encounter. THEN this is true.

I swear I have seen this thread around several times already.

Barondil.1459:

It’s not a bug! It’s a feature!

It all makes sense now.

Sarrs.4831:

Because if you’re the one dude who joins the Borderlands and causes everyone else to lose the bonus stats, everyone will start sending you nasty messages and telling you to leave so they can get their buff back. Any mechanic that encourages people to send you nasty messages is not really something that they’re going for.

Aww, how gullible you are, eating the kittens the anet staff feeds you. Just 2 things:
1 – They can make it so the buff disappears with 5-10 mins delay and reappears with 5-10 mins delay too, so this will be pointless… (and how will they know who is the reason they lost the buff btw, huh?)
2 – What about the points on stomp now? Wanna bet uplevels are being kitten talked to when someone sees one and they aren’t holding the bloodlust buff?

Benjamin.6235:

Devon Carver has stated that they don’t want a bonus on unmanned so people harass people off a borderland, but now PPT focused servers have the motivation to harass poor players out of the game when they’re not holding the orb buffs.

Devon, what do you have to say about that? “We have to carefully test if we make any changes to wvw.” …thought so, just like the ACs.

IMAGE.1509:

But no response from Anet.

“What people told us would happen happened… let’s wait several weeks, it might fix itself.”

Cactus.2710:

CrassBippy.4619:

Hmmmmmm, it seems the obvious thing that was gonna happen happened. Lets collect some data and observe this.

Hmmmmm. Interesting….

The really humorous thing is that I remember lordkrall (official ANet forum apologist) saying several times that ANet couldn’t implement many of the things that players were asking for in WvW because the balance considerations were so complex that they wouldn’t be able to do so without lots of time-consuming testing.

Voila! We have bloodlust!

LMAO

Well… Anet logic: "Hmm, how to make the majority of players happy(to be read “the t1/2 servers”)… I know – give them stat buffs, then additional rewards in form of leagues… yep, that would work and everyone that complains, well, they are a vocal minority."

So guys, when are orbs and leagues coming? I need to stock on popcorn and watch the forums explode (I feel mods will need to work overtime then) after day 1 of them.

Sreoom.3690:

ranger encounters a roamer

Someone please tell me a counter I can use to defend myself and have an even chance to win?

Fixed your post for you.

CC Danicia.1394:

Tellerion.8102:

Feedback, as long as it’s about butterflies, red roses and/or child birth.

Pfft. I hate all those things.

But seriously, the team does watch this thread and does keep the feedback. And we also compile particularly good constructive feedback for the team, so they don’t miss it.

On behalf of the others – don’t mind our “hostile” comments, we still aren’t over Devon’s stuck up “this is our vision so this is how you will play” type reply. Your type of reply I think we can stomach much more and it sounds a lot more diplomatic.

Hickeroar.9734:

Oh, I just mean in general. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are nearly round the clock small groups and people all over these points just duking it out for the pure fun of it. Heck, I might be one of them occasionally.

Well then, my good Sir, let me ask you about a hypothetical situation: from the groups there, 1 will have the buff, even if they are hardcore roamers and just want fun and relatively balanced fights. So here are the 2 questions:
1 – will it be fun to you to be stomped by buffed enemies?
2 – will it be fun for them, knowing they win because of a stat advantage they can do nothing about?
3 – how often will massive zergs appear to secure a stat buff?

Now let’s say the buff is 50-100% to exp/wexp/mf and even 10% mf/gf/exp going to PvE crowd… 2 questions now:
1 – would people care to fight over it?
2 – will they feel beneficial for their server?

I even forgot about the points on stomp part… which is a great idea…. if there is no stat buff.

DevonCarver.5370:

insanemaniac.2456:

why we wont see a useful outnumbered buff:

scenario — player enters map where his server has outnumbered. server loses outnumbered. other players harass him to leave so server can be stronger.

Correct. The idea behind the buff is to incentivize you to show up even if you are outnumbered by pulling out some of the disincentive for losing a lot, but if we put anything too good on it, it will cause serious problems between players. We don’t want it to be something that people fight over, harass each other over, or generally cause a worse play experience because someone takes away the buff because it is our goal for the maps to be full and for no one to have the buff.

Well then, how about this: you get “outnumbered” (+100/every stat) when an enemy server on the map(or both enemies/2, pick one) has 3 times or more of your server’s players for more than 5-10 minutes? And you lose the buff, when your numbers become less than 1:2 in their favor, after the numbers hold steady for 5 minutes.
Let me explain why it takes time to get/lose it:
1 – when you lose the buff you know you have the numbers to try to compete against them.
2 – other players won’t be able to harass newcomers, since a lot will have to leave to make it back to 1:3 ratio(since losing the buff = 1:2 for a while) and even after that they need to wait 5-10 mins for the buff to appear, not sure if they have(miss) the numbers to get the buff, or not.
3 – you know that when the buff disappears your numbers are 1:2 at least > meaning you have a fighting chance > meaning whining is disgraceful.

^It took me 5 minutes to think about that, I am sure if you tried just a bit more you could do even better.

The range nerf/fix was justified, the stunbreak removal though…

ViRuE.3612:

NO to stat bonus

Yes to kills/stomps counting towards PPT.

And while I’m at it NO to guards traits etc increasing stats as well.

^Was just about to type that. I hate having stat advantage/disadvantage over someone just because I/he have played more wvw than the other, or some other external factor.

I think we are mostly in “wtf” mode.
I see what you are trying to do, but the truth is – Soldier gear won’t save you, because theives rely on stealth and evades much more than being able to tank through hits. All this full soldier gear does is make you deal low dmg, while being only slightly more survivable. I have never heard about direct damage thieves, that didn’t rely on crit dmg and did well. You’d do much better with full knights gear and 0/20(3, 6)/30(4, 6, 11)/20(2, 9)/0 build(you will deal more damage than soldier, while being just as tanky with good evades and SA health regen), until you are ready to switch to more glassy gear(valkyrie and berserker pieces).